Author Topic: Where should I move? Denver or Dallas?  (Read 14339 times)

ss14spqr

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Where should I move? Denver or Dallas?
« on: May 11, 2017, 10:59:28 AM »
Dear Sirs,

my name is Sasha. This Fall I am coming to US. I was a lawyer in my country, but in US I will start from the scratch. I want to establish my own business (small business). Where should I move? Denver CO or Dallas TX? What is the best place for small and medium entrepreneurs? Where it easier to get funding for your business? Which city will have better future?

I will be very grateful for your answers.

best regards,
Sasha.

GoConfidently

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Re: Where should I move? Denver or Dallas?
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2017, 07:30:58 PM »
Where are you coming from, what will the business be, and what led you to these two choices?

chasesfish

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Re: Where should I move? Denver or Dallas?
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2017, 06:14:44 AM »
Denver is prettier, lots of outdoor recreation.

Dallas is better for business.  More capital, more entrepreneurs, and people only move here to work.   Its hot in the summer, cold in the winter, and a flat prairie.   Its the fourth largest metro area in the United States
« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 07:19:41 AM by chasesfish »

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Re: Where should I move? Denver or Dallas?
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2017, 06:31:47 AM »
Denver is prettier, lots of outdoor recreation.

Dallas is better for business.  More capital, more entrepreneurs, and people only move here to work.   Its hot in the winter, cold in the summer, and a flat prairie.   Its the fourth largest metro area in the United States

Just to clarify, its hot in the summers (think April - October) and cold in the winter (mostly just December -Feb). In the winter, you might get 1 snow or ice storm, but its rare.

I love Dallas, and it is a great place for business. Over the last 5-7 years the city has been booming with growth. Business are moving TO Dallas to set up shop (Toyota being a recent example). Texas also has no state income tax!

Housing is on a steep climb in Dallas (not as bad as Denver). Think hard about where in the metroplex you want to land. Uptown Dallas is substantially more expensive than Grapevine or Grand Prairie.

chasesfish

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Re: Where should I move? Denver or Dallas?
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2017, 07:20:53 AM »
Thanks for catching that...

I guess what I was trying to say is its not like Florida, where you exchange 3-4 months of miserable heat for a pleasant eight months.  Its still cold enough to be unpleasant in the winter.

There's also no water around that's nice enough to do recreational stuff in it.  Fishing/Boating/Swimming

CatamaranSailor

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Re: Where should I move? Denver or Dallas?
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2017, 08:46:02 AM »
Dallas=There is absolutely no reason this city would have been built except for oil. Confusing freeway system. Uuuuuugly. However, excellent for business, low cost of living and if you see a rascal robbing your neighbor's house you can shoot 'em!

Denver=Close to mountains. God awful traffic. Pretty good cost of living but housing prices have gone nuts recently. Definitely OK for business. That "Rocky Mountain High" John Denver sang about? Yeah..it's now legal.


rothwem

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Re: Where should I move? Denver or Dallas?
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2017, 09:12:46 AM »
Don't forget, you need a pickup truck, cowboy hat and cowboy boots if you move to Dallas.  Factor the purchase and gas costs into your budget when doing your comparisons. 

:D

Cranky

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Re: Where should I move? Denver or Dallas?
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2017, 01:33:09 PM »
Do you want to be hot or cold?

chasesfish

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Re: Where should I move? Denver or Dallas?
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2017, 05:48:47 PM »
Don't forget, you need a pickup truck, cowboy hat and cowboy boots if you move to Dallas.  Factor the purchase and gas costs into your budget when doing your comparisons. 

:D

Have you been to Texas?  Its fairly normal up and down I-35....stray away from there you start needing those cowboy boots and a hat.  Dallas and Austin, not so much.

Spork

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Re: Where should I move? Denver or Dallas?
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2017, 06:19:35 PM »
Don't forget, you need a pickup truck, cowboy hat and cowboy boots if you move to Dallas.  Factor the purchase and gas costs into your budget when doing your comparisons. 

:D

Have you been to Texas?  Its fairly normal up and down I-35....stray away from there you start needing those cowboy boots and a hat.  Dallas and Austin, not so much.

I've been in Texas over 50 years.  I lived in the DFW area over 20 years.  I've never owned a cowboy hat (or had friends that did).  Never owned a pair of cowboy boots and rarely had friends that did.  There ARE lots of pickups.  I've had one, but it was a POS that was only good for hauling crap from point A to point B.  It's not like the show "Dallas".  (And that HUGE Southfork Ranch is a very disappointing site if you see it in real life.)


I can't speak for Denver.  I've visited there.  But that's not real life.

Dallas:
* Dear jebus it is hot.  Ungodly hot.  Summer isn't 3 months.  Summer is like 6 months.  Most of the little scrubby trees that were there naturally have been traded for acres of concrete that suck up all the heat during the day and radiate it back when the sun goes down.  (Seriously: if you travel 10 miles past the last suburb, the temperature drops 10+ degrees.)
* It's a big metroplex and there ARE lots of people that don't fit the "normal".  But there are lots of "normal".  That normal is Christian.  I am not Christian and ... it isn't awful once you adjust.  But if you're coming from Europe or India or Russia -- IT WILL TAKE A LITTLE ADJUSTMENT.  Give it time.  (I'm basing this on the name Sasha... I could be WAY off)
* It is a great environment for business.  I moved just a couple of hours away and my pay went down 30% (and my cost of living went up!)
* Man the housing there has gone crazy since I left.  I feel certain it will hit a point where it settles down, but -- HOLY MOLY -- The house I bought in 1995 that was very middle class has gone up almost 300% since then (according to the tax rolls).  I've had friends tell me that when a house goes on the market you have to show up THAT DAY and bid OVER the asking price. 
* Lots of great ethnic food of all types.  Oh I miss this so much. 

chasesfish

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Re: Where should I move? Denver or Dallas?
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2017, 05:49:21 AM »
Spork - You're dead on with the description of Dallas, although that radiating concrete heat circle keeps going further and further out.  I remember my first summer when it was 97 degrees at 10pm at night.  I had lived in Atlanta, which can get equally hot by 3pm, but the speed it heats up in the morning and the lack of cooling in the evening still amazes me!

Housing is completely insane - If a decent home comes up and its priced close to market, its basically a 2 day viewing window then the buyer reviews offers.   The only value in a realtor is making sure your initial price is right, because some come up at 10% over market and just sit.


ss14spqr

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Re: Where should I move? Denver or Dallas?
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2017, 02:29:46 PM »
Where are you coming from, what will the business be, and what led you to these two choices?

Sir,
I am coming from Ukraine (Eastern Europe). I will be a small business (services). What led me to these choices? Hm. I've read a lot about both cities regarding strong economies, good job market and nice place for entrepreneurs.


ss14spqr

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Re: Where should I move? Denver or Dallas?
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2017, 02:32:06 PM »
Denver is prettier, lots of outdoor recreation.

Dallas is better for business.  More capital, more entrepreneurs, and people only move here to work.   Its hot in the summer, cold in the winter, and a flat prairie.   Its the fourth largest metro area in the United States

I am a bit doubt about Texas regarding world oil market. It's very volatile and it affects on the state or I am wrong?

ss14spqr

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Re: Where should I move? Denver or Dallas?
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2017, 02:33:43 PM »
Denver is prettier, lots of outdoor recreation.

Dallas is better for business.  More capital, more entrepreneurs, and people only move here to work.   Its hot in the winter, cold in the summer, and a flat prairie.   Its the fourth largest metro area in the United States

Just to clarify, its hot in the summers (think April - October) and cold in the winter (mostly just December -Feb). In the winter, you might get 1 snow or ice storm, but its rare.

I love Dallas, and it is a great place for business. Over the last 5-7 years the city has been booming with growth. Business are moving TO Dallas to set up shop (Toyota being a recent example). Texas also has no state income tax!

Housing is on a steep climb in Dallas (not as bad as Denver). Think hard about where in the metroplex you want to land. Uptown Dallas is substantially more expensive than Grapevine or Grand Prairie.

yes, Dallas is booming. A lot of big corporations came to Texas. But it's all about big business. Is there any place for small entrepreneurs? that's the question.

ss14spqr

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Re: Where should I move? Denver or Dallas?
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2017, 02:36:36 PM »
Dallas=There is absolutely no reason this city would have been built except for oil. Confusing freeway system. Uuuuuugly. However, excellent for business, low cost of living and if you see a rascal robbing your neighbor's house you can shoot 'em!

Denver=Close to mountains. God awful traffic. Pretty good cost of living but housing prices have gone nuts recently. Definitely OK for business. That "Rocky Mountain High" John Denver sang about? Yeah..it's now legal.

Sir, I am not familiar with guns. So I won't shoot anybody :)

But what about long term forecast? what state (Colorado or Texas) with have better future?

ss14spqr

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Re: Where should I move? Denver or Dallas?
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2017, 02:43:17 PM »
Spork - You're dead on with the description of Dallas, although that radiating concrete heat circle keeps going further and further out.  I remember my first summer when it was 97 degrees at 10pm at night.  I had lived in Atlanta, which can get equally hot by 3pm, but the speed it heats up in the morning and the lack of cooling in the evening still amazes me!

Housing is completely insane - If a decent home comes up and its priced close to market, its basically a 2 day viewing window then the buyer reviews offers.   The only value in a realtor is making sure your initial price is right, because some come up at 10% over market and just sit.

Sir,
the same situation in all big cities. For instance, I have lived in Moscow for 1 year. It was terrible in summer: very polluted air x heat = complete hell.

Speaking about home prices, they are insane in Austin, TX. Same situation in Denver, Co. It fells like a possible bubble. Don't you think so?



« Last Edit: May 13, 2017, 02:50:00 PM by ss14spqr »

chasesfish

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Re: Where should I move? Denver or Dallas?
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2017, 03:05:42 PM »
Dallas is outstanding for entrepreneurs and has a diverse economy, Oil only makes up a small percentage of the market.

Good luck with your choice

InnTee

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Re: Where should I move? Denver or Dallas?
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2017, 03:25:48 PM »
I've lived in the Dallas metro area a couple of times, and go there frequently for work. I have found it to be uber-materialistic. At least in the corporate environment I was in, it was all about what neighborhood you live in, what car you drive, conspicuous consumption, etc. etc. So by default, if faced with this binary choice, I'd choose Denver.

ss14spqr

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Re: Where should I move? Denver or Dallas?
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2017, 03:52:42 PM »
I've lived in the Dallas metro area a couple of times, and go there frequently for work. I have found it to be uber-materialistic. At least in the corporate environment I was in, it was all about what neighborhood you live in, what car you drive, conspicuous consumption, etc. etc. So by default, if faced with this binary choice, I'd choose Denver.

If it is not a binary choice? What another city would you choose?

InnTee

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Re: Where should I move? Denver or Dallas?
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2017, 03:56:32 PM »
I've lived in the Dallas metro area a couple of times, and go there frequently for work. I have found it to be uber-materialistic. At least in the corporate environment I was in, it was all about what neighborhood you live in, what car you drive, conspicuous consumption, etc. etc. So by default, if faced with this binary choice, I'd choose Denver.

If it is not a binary choice? What another city would you choose?

Excellent question. I've been mulling that question over a lot, since it'll be pretty easy to move after the kids are in college. Frontrunners at the moment are Portland/Corvallis/etc. in Oregon. Would welcome any suggestions though -- I'm especially drawn to being within striking distance of mountains and/or water.

ss14spqr

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Re: Where should I move? Denver or Dallas?
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2017, 04:31:35 PM »
I've lived in the Dallas metro area a couple of times, and go there frequently for work. I have found it to be uber-materialistic. At least in the corporate environment I was in, it was all about what neighborhood you live in, what car you drive, conspicuous consumption, etc. etc. So by default, if faced with this binary choice, I'd choose Denver.

If it is not a binary choice? What another city would you choose?

Excellent question. I've been mulling that question over a lot, since it'll be pretty easy to move after the kids are in college. Frontrunners at the moment are Portland/Corvallis/etc. in Oregon. Would welcome any suggestions though -- I'm especially drawn to being within striking distance of mountains and/or water.

Actually, Portland also on my my mind. But which economy is stronger? In Portland or in Denver?

InnTee

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Re: Where should I move? Denver or Dallas?
« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2017, 04:38:59 PM »
Ah yes, back to your actual question. It will probably depend on the specific type of "services" you would like to offer -- business customers vs retail consumers? in person vs online? fully developed industry vs emerging field? Doing a bit of online research about whether those types of services are being offered in the specific locality, and at what apparent levels of quality & price, might help inform your decision.

TL/DR: I don't know.

Edited because (brain fart, sorry) turns out I was responding to the OP.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2017, 04:44:16 PM by InnTee »

InnTee

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Re: Where should I move? Denver or Dallas?
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2017, 04:40:45 PM »
Also, a rough indicator of whether a particular city is booming economically can be found in average home sale prices. It's not perfect, but generally people tend to move where there are jobs, driving up home prices.

boy_bye

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Re: Where should I move? Denver or Dallas?
« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2017, 05:14:43 PM »
Both cities have good economies. I think the biggest differentiators would be weather and culture.

The weather in Dallas is GODAWFUL. So hot and muggy for like half the year that it's hard to even go outside let alone enjoy it. Plus ... Texas ... culturally, well let's just say it's a ... one-of-a-kind place. It was not a good fit for me but a lot of people like it I guess.

The weather in Denver is amazing. Sunny 300 days a year, a bit of snow mixed in with all the sunshine, lots of good places to eat and have fun outdoors. I like the Denver culture, too -- it's fairly young and progressive.

Any chance you could visit both places before you decide?

ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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Re: Where should I move? Denver or Dallas?
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2017, 03:48:48 AM »
Dallas is a great place to make money; I don't know anything about Denver. If you thought Moscow was hot, though, look up daily highs in August.

I wonder if you'll do well to consider Philadelphia. There a lot of Ukrainians -maybe you like that, maybe not -and the economy is doing pretty well.

As a patriot I like to think you can't make a bad choice coming to the USA. Welcome!

ss14spqr

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Re: Where should I move? Denver or Dallas?
« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2017, 03:57:10 AM »
Dallas is a great place to make money; I don't know anything about Denver. If you thought Moscow was hot, though, look up daily highs in August.

I wonder if you'll do well to consider Philadelphia. There a lot of Ukrainians -maybe you like that, maybe not -and the economy is doing pretty well.

As a patriot I like to think you can't make a bad choice coming to the USA. Welcome!

Sir,
thank you very much for your kind welcome words!
I just want to say that you are blessed people because you are living in such a good country - USA. Please appreciate it.

Is Dallas a good place to make money for small entrepreneurs? I am not sure. I think Texas in a whole it's a place for big corporations. Am I wrong?


ss14spqr

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Re: Where should I move? Denver or Dallas?
« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2017, 03:59:06 AM »
Both cities have good economies. I think the biggest differentiators would be weather and culture.

The weather in Dallas is GODAWFUL. So hot and muggy for like half the year that it's hard to even go outside let alone enjoy it. Plus ... Texas ... culturally, well let's just say it's a ... one-of-a-kind place. It was not a good fit for me but a lot of people like it I guess.

The weather in Denver is amazing. Sunny 300 days a year, a bit of snow mixed in with all the sunshine, lots of good places to eat and have fun outdoors. I like the Denver culture, too -- it's fairly young and progressive.

Any chance you could visit both places before you decide?

Thanks for your answer.

Could you please be more specific about culture in Texas? what  do you mean?

thank you in advance.

rothwem

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Re: Where should I move? Denver or Dallas?
« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2017, 06:35:23 AM »
Don't forget, you need a pickup truck, cowboy hat and cowboy boots if you move to Dallas.  Factor the purchase and gas costs into your budget when doing your comparisons. 

:D

Have you been to Texas?  Its fairly normal up and down I-35....stray away from there you start needing those cowboy boots and a hat.  Dallas and Austin, not so much.

I'm just kidding around.  I've never been to Dallas, but the company I work for is based there.  When the corporate guys come to our facility, they've all got cowboy boots on and I think its hilarious.  They think they're awesome though, and since they're our corporate overlords, I don't say anything. 

Overflow

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Re: Where should I move? Denver or Dallas?
« Reply #28 on: May 15, 2017, 06:40:46 AM »
I've lived in the Dallas metro area a couple of times, and go there frequently for work. I have found it to be uber-materialistic. At least in the corporate environment I was in, it was all about what neighborhood you live in, what car you drive, conspicuous consumption, etc. etc. So by default, if faced with this binary choice, I'd choose Denver.
Unfortunately this is true - mainly applies to "North Dallas". Think Downtown through Frisco.

When I moved to Dallas someone explained to me that there is nothing pretty about the natural setting of Dallas (hot, flat, boring) so the people have to make their houses, cars, buildings, and themselves pretty. Consequentially, this comes across as quite materialistic.

ss14spqr

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Re: Where should I move? Denver or Dallas?
« Reply #29 on: May 15, 2017, 07:30:51 AM »
I've lived in the Dallas metro area a couple of times, and go there frequently for work. I have found it to be uber-materialistic. At least in the corporate environment I was in, it was all about what neighborhood you live in, what car you drive, conspicuous consumption, etc. etc. So by default, if faced with this binary choice, I'd choose Denver.
Unfortunately this is true - mainly applies to "North Dallas". Think Downtown through Frisco.

When I moved to Dallas someone explained to me that there is nothing pretty about the natural setting of Dallas (hot, flat, boring) so the people have to make their houses, cars, buildings, and themselves pretty. Consequentially, this comes across as quite materialistic.

Unfortunately everything in our life become materialistic. I understand that life is not only cash and career and from that point of view Denver seems better. But I have heard that job market is very tight there.


boy_bye

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Re: Where should I move? Denver or Dallas?
« Reply #30 on: May 15, 2017, 11:11:00 AM »
The culture of Texas is more right-wing, religious, conservative, and gun-based than the culture of Denver. Of course there are different kinds of people living everywhere so I'm speaking in broad strokes, but politically, Texas is one of the most conservative states in the US. Denver is far more liberal.

chasesfish

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Re: Where should I move? Denver or Dallas?
« Reply #31 on: May 15, 2017, 02:00:51 PM »
The culture of Texas is more right-wing, religious, conservative, and gun-based than the culture of Denver. Of course there are different kinds of people living everywhere so I'm speaking in broad strokes, but politically, Texas is one of the most conservative states in the US. Denver is far more liberal.

Dallas County:  61% to Hillary Clinton, 34% to Trump...

The four major cities in Texas are Blue in a sea of red.  Austin, Dallas, San Antonio, and Houston

boy_bye

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Re: Where should I move? Denver or Dallas?
« Reply #32 on: May 15, 2017, 02:54:00 PM »
That's why I said "Texas," not Dallas. I lived in Pittsburgh for a long time so I know what it's like to be a blue dot in a sea of red.

Alim Nassor

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Re: Where should I move? Denver or Dallas?
« Reply #33 on: May 25, 2017, 12:19:29 AM »
Welcome to Texas!

Alim Nassor

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Re: Where should I move? Denver or Dallas?
« Reply #34 on: May 25, 2017, 12:30:45 AM »
I work in Richardson, live about an hour north.  The weather is not as awful as people here are saying.  Yeah, in June, July and August it can be pretty hot, but it's not some death defying act to go outside.  Hell, yesterday we froze our asses off watching a grandson play little league ball.  Our spring comes early and is glorious, our winters are mild with little snow, an occasional ice storm that causes issues, but when that happens, we generally stay home.

Yes, we like our boots and western wear, but I don't know why anyone finds that funny, what makes their choice of dress any better or more practical than ours?  In my entire life, I've NEVER owned a pair of dress shoes.   I've worn boots all my life, one because most of the time they are very practical, and for another they are very comfortable.  I made my 1st communion in boots, graduated high school in boots, got married in boots, and I'll be buried in boots.

Come to Texas, it's like a whole other country.