When is replacing washer and dryer worth it?

[Trudie]

We have a Maytag top loading washer/front loading dryer that is about twenty years old.  The thing is, they have always worked for us.  With the exception of one minor and not very costly dryer repair, they have not needed our attention.

All of our other appliances are energy-star rated and were purchased when we built our house ten years ago.  Our HVAC system is high-efficiency.  We also use a "time of day" meter and do our laundry when energy rates are lowest (late night/early morning and weekends).

I realize that there is no such thing as an efficient dryer.  I'm wondering at what point it's worth it to replace a washer/dryer for energy efficiency??

It's also a matter of priorities.  It is more than likely that our other energy efficient kitchen appliances will fail first.  We've already replaced one dishwasher and have had some repairs to our stove. 

If truth be told, I think my husband has an emotional attachment to this set.  It was manufactured in Iowa (our home state) before Maytag started shipping jobs overseas.  He bought the set used when it was barely a year old and got a hell of a deal on it.

Replace or just try to continue to manage usage?

[justajane]

I wouldn't replace them. Washers these days have way more bells and whistles that not only drive up the price; they also lead to more and more repairs. Are your clothes getting clean? If so, stay with what you have. I wouldn't worry about the efficiency of an appliance that is periodically on as much as I would concern myself with ones that are always on like refrigerators.

We bought a used Kenmore 10 years ago and it is still going strong. I'm guessing it was already 5-10 years old when we bought it, so it is of a similar age to yours. It works great. I'm guessing your Maytag could last another 10 or more years.

[Another Reader]

No reason to replace a 20 year old set that works just fine.  As you say, dryers are dryers.  You are not going to save much on the washer in energy, but the front loaders save water.  However, in my experience, they do not get the laundry clean, and they break down a lot.  When I replace my 20 plus year old Maytag washer, it will be with a basic top loader, probably used so I can still wash with hot water when necessary.

A 20 year old refrigerator would be a different matter.

[CmFtns]

Dryer efficiency has not changed for a very long time. Technology just hasn't advanced in the heating air so do not replace dryer till it does not work.

The difference for the washer machine would be:
    -Top Loader vs front loader

The difference for the front loader would be that it uses less water.
Cost of water: a few cents per load and probably shouldn't merit replacing the washer
Cost of hot water: biggest cost difference. Do you do washes using hot water or only cold?

So for this calculaton you would have to know how many loads/week and if you do washes using hot water.

If you only do cold washes like me then it probably isn't worth replacing but if you do many washes/week with warm or hot water then the washer might pay for itself in a few years
also what's your cost/kwh

[woodnut]

Short answer, run the numbers.  We replaced our 15 yr old top load Maytag washer last year with a front load LG.  I put together a spreadsheet of water, sewer, electricity, and hot water costs of the old and new washer.  Factoring the cost of a new washer, it came to a 20% ROI.  But water & sewer is expensive where I live, so it made sense.  If water is cheap where you live, probably won't make sense.  So now we have a mismatched 1 yr old washer and a 16 yr old dryer.  The dryer ROI is close to 0% by the way.

[Cassie]

We use ours until they die or need a expensive repair.

[Rosy]

I vote for replacing it when it dies.

[Left]

replace it when you want :S I see them being given away for free on craigslist, just go pick one up if you want.

I like the older ones, seems easier to take apart to clean/fix

[Exflyboy]

I wouldn't replace.. But when the dryer dies I might replace with a gas unit for lower energy costs.

Have to run the numbers as gas dryers are not going to be 100% efficient (like electric dryers are).. But per unit energy cost in going with gas is likely to be, depending on your time of day tarrifs

[dess1313]

replace when dies on the drier.  try putting up a rack to hang stuff to dry like tshirts and such that don't hold a lot of water.  I have a old broom handle on a couple utility hooks in my basement

Depending on how much you do laundry you might save money on the washer, but depends.  Top loads are less complicated and easier to fix.  If you decide you do want to replace it this is what i did

Go to your local appliance store and watch for scratch and dent ones to show up in the clearance section. I got a beautiful front load because it was missing its bright red matching dryer for about 25% off.  my washer was dying so it did need to be replaced at the time.  i didn't care what color it was, just that it worked

[Tigerpine]

I've never liked clothes dryers.  I personally would not get enough value out of one to ever replace it.

[Faraday]

We have a Maytag top loading washer/front loading dryer that is about twenty years old.  The thing is, they have always worked for us.  With the exception of one minor and not very costly dryer repair, they have not needed our attention.

All of our other appliances are energy-star rated and were purchased when we built our house ten years ago.  Our HVAC system is high-efficiency.  We also use a "time of day" meter and do our laundry when energy rates are lowest (late night/early morning and weekends).

I realize that there is no such thing as an efficient dryer.  I'm wondering at what point it's worth it to replace a washer/dryer for energy efficiency??

It's also a matter of priorities.  It is more than likely that our other energy efficient kitchen appliances will fail first.  We've already replaced one dishwasher and have had some repairs to our stove. 

If truth be told, I think my husband has an emotional attachment to this set.  It was manufactured in Iowa (our home state) before Maytag started shipping jobs overseas.  He bought the set used when it was barely a year old and got a hell of a deal on it.

Replace or just try to continue to manage usage?

Trudie - I did this, and it was a terrible, terrible mistake.

I had a >20 year old pair of Maytags. They were delux at the time we bought them years ago but nowadays they were the equivalent of "basic" models. I went ahead and replaced them with Maytag Bravos models, on sale, with deep discounts, from Home Depot. These were the mac-daddy energy saving machines with all the energy-star creds I was looking for. The Bravos washer was one of the new ones with no agitator.

The things that were wrong with the new washer and dryer were:

1) The new washer would wrinkle the clothes so badly that you were forced to iron everything. It would twist the clothes so badly that it would distort them. I've never seen wrinkles so hard to get out of the clothes.
2) The clothes would not get clean sometimes.
3) No soak cycle or ability to soak with the new washer.
4) No "second rinse" button or switch.
5) The new Maytag washers all require that they be "cleaned" occasionally. You buy a pack of these "Affresh tablets", toss one in when the "clean me" light comes on and run the washer through a regular wash cycle. Then the "clean me" light resets and you go again. The tablets are expensive and it takes energy to run the self-clean wash cycle.
6) Maddening amounts of "music"are played by the new appliances. Believe me, the little tunes will drive you apeshit crazy in no time. Eventually we figured out how to turn them off, but every time there's a power outage at our house (happens about twice a year), you have to reset the machine not to play the crazy little music.
7) I would not say the dryer saved any energy at all. It runs cooler than an "old style" dryer and just blows more air through the clothes. so you have to run it for a much longer time than a regular dryer.

Eventually, I got so sick of these appliances, I located the closest dealer for Speed Queen appliances, went and bought a matching Speed Queen pair made in Ripon, Wisconsin. They are expensive as hell and you don't get one bit of discount on them, but I got a 3 year no-questions-asked warranty with the machines and they have been running beautifully. (knock on wood)

They are in-no-way "energy efficient" and I could not be happier.

Don't get me wrong, I'm an energy efficiency geek and an engineer by training: I own and drive a Prius, I ride my bike for all local trips, I'm making a bike trailer to be able to do even more local stuff with the bike and I have flourescent bulbs all through my home (and will convert to LED in time, as their cost goes down and the flourescent ballasts begin to fail.) It was not easy for me to get to the point of buying the Speed Queens - we tried to make the Maytag products work for two years and finally just gave up.

I donated the Maytag pair to the Habitat for Humanity re-use store. They were thrilled to get them. I pray the next owners get better performance out of them than we did. 

Do not trade your old machines. Run them till they break. Heck - when they do break, pay to have them fixed, if it's not more than a new machine costs. And if you HAVE to buy a new machine, buy BASIC, LOW-END MACHINES. And be very careful not to buy anything that has "Affresh" printed on the label or has to be "Cleaned".  Nowadays, that's almost everything Maytag makes that's a washing machine....

[Retire-Canada]

Replace or just try to continue to manage usage?

Just keep 'em. I'm in the same boat. My GF would love new appliances I keep telling her we are using these ones until they die and then I'm going to buy an identical set off CL for as little as I can. We do 2 loads of laundry a week using cold water. As long as the clothes are clean I can't get excited about spending hundreds of $$ in my laundry room.

Mind you we also have 20yrs+ old stove and fridge. I don't get turned on by fancy appliances.

[Faraday]

Replace or just try to continue to manage usage?

Just keep 'em. I'm in the same boat. My GF would love new appliances I keep telling her we are using these ones until they die and then I'm going to buy an identical set off CL for as little as I can. We do 2 loads of laundry a week using cold water. As long as the clothes are clean I can't get excited about spending hundreds of $$ in my laundry room.

Mind you we also have 20yrs+ old stove and fridge. I don't get turned on by fancy appliances.

+1 to Vikb's strategy. It's a great way to save dollas.

I tried to buy Speed Queen off Craigslist but could not find any. No one ever sells their Speed Queen products. If I were buying off CL, I'd probably go with a pair of GE low-end products. I think they are still made in Kentucky.

[partgypsy]

For the love of god if they are working keep them! I swear they do not build stuff the same as they used to! And everything has an electric console interface, which = $$ when it eventually fails.

[Trudie]

We have a Maytag top loading washer/front loading dryer that is about twenty years old.  The thing is, they have always worked for us.  With the exception of one minor and not very costly dryer repair, they have not needed our attention.

All of our other appliances are energy-star rated and were purchased when we built our house ten years ago.  Our HVAC system is high-efficiency.  We also use a "time of day" meter and do our laundry when energy rates are lowest (late night/early morning and weekends).

I realize that there is no such thing as an efficient dryer.  I'm wondering at what point it's worth it to replace a washer/dryer for energy efficiency??

It's also a matter of priorities.  It is more than likely that our other energy efficient kitchen appliances will fail first.  We've already replaced one dishwasher and have had some repairs to our stove. 

If truth be told, I think my husband has an emotional attachment to this set.  It was manufactured in Iowa (our home state) before Maytag started shipping jobs overseas.  He bought the set used when it was barely a year old and got a hell of a deal on it.

Replace or just try to continue to manage usage?

Trudie - I did this, and it was a terrible, terrible mistake.

I had a >20 year old pair of Maytags. They were delux at the time we bought them years ago but nowadays they were the equivalent of "basic" models. I went ahead and replaced them with Maytag Bravos models, on sale, with deep discounts, from Home Depot. These were the mac-daddy energy saving machines with all the energy-star creds I was looking for. The Bravos washer was one of the new ones with no agitator.

The things that were wrong with the new washer and dryer were:

1) The new washer would wrinkle the clothes so badly that you were forced to iron everything. It would twist the clothes so badly that it would distort them. I've never seen wrinkles so hard to get out of the clothes.
2) The clothes would not get clean sometimes.
3) No soak cycle or ability to soak with the new washer.
4) No "second rinse" button or switch.
5) The new Maytag washers all require that they be "cleaned" occasionally. You buy a pack of these "Affresh tablets", toss one in when the "clean me" light comes on and run the washer through a regular wash cycle. Then the "clean me" light resets and you go again. The tablets are expensive and it takes energy to run the self-clean wash cycle.
6) Maddening amounts of "music"are played by the new appliances. Believe me, the little tunes will drive you apeshit crazy in no time. Eventually we figured out how to turn them off, but every time there's a power outage at our house (happens about twice a year), you have to reset the machine not to play the crazy little music.
7) I would not say the dryer saved any energy at all. It runs cooler than an "old style" dryer and just blows more air through the clothes. so you have to run it for a much longer time than a regular dryer.

Eventually, I got so sick of these appliances, I located the closest dealer for Speed Queen appliances, went and bought a matching Speed Queen pair made in Ripon, Wisconsin. They are expensive as hell and you don't get one bit of discount on them, but I got a 3 year no-questions-asked warranty with the machines and they have been running beautifully. (knock on wood)

They are in-no-way "energy efficient" and I could not be happier.

Don't get me wrong, I'm an energy efficiency geek and an engineer by training: I own and drive a Prius, I ride my bike for all local trips, I'm making a bike trailer to be able to do even more local stuff with the bike and I have flourescent bulbs all through my home (and will convert to LED in time, as their cost goes down and the flourescent ballasts begin to fail.) It was not easy for me to get to the point of buying the Speed Queens - we tried to make the Maytag products work for two years and finally just gave up.

I donated the Maytag pair to the Habitat for Humanity re-use store. They were thrilled to get them. I pray the next owners get better performance out of them than we did. 

Do not trade your old machines. Run them till they break. Heck - when they do break, pay to have them fixed, if it's not more than a new machine costs. And if you HAVE to buy a new machine, buy BASIC, LOW-END MACHINES. And be very careful not to buy anything that has "Affresh" printed on the label or has to be "Cleaned".  Nowadays, that's almost everything Maytag makes that's a washing machine....

Thanks for this.  I'm sold on my trusty Maytags.  And after your sad tale, I may just go home and hug them.  I'll save my money for the dishwasher (already crapped out once and replaced ) and the annoying GE range with funky electronics that's moodier than a teenager.

I will continue to work on cutting down dryer usage and focus on washing in cold water -- things I already do to an extent, but probably not enough.

[eil]

Replace or just try to continue to manage usage?

You're getting all kinds of advice--which is great--but it's all kind of academic until you answer this question: why do you want to replace them? Are they broken? Have they required expensive repairs recently? Do you sense an expensive repair coming up?

Despite all the knobs, buttons, lights, and sparkly paint on the outside, most home appliances are remarkably simple machines on the inside. A great many repairs are easily within the capability of the average person and their hand-me-down toolbox. The first rule of saving money on appliance repairs is to always always try to fix them yourself before having a professional come out. If you're not willing to at least try, then perhaps early retirement isn't for you.

Are you looking for better energy efficiency? Now that you can easily spend $2000 on a modern matching set of machines that only wash your clothes, the energy efficiency savings would have to be staggering in order to come out ahead even over a 10-year stretch. Going from a top-load washer to a side-load washer would be a big jump, as would going from an electric dryer to a gas dryer. But you'd have to run the numbers to be sure.

[Trudie]

I think the question popped up because of their age and the fact that the washer is not energy star rated.

[Faraday]

Replace or just try to continue to manage usage?

You're getting all kinds of advice--which is great--but it's all kind of academic until you answer this question: why do you want to replace them? Are they broken? Have they required expensive repairs recently? Do you sense an expensive repair coming up?
...blah blah blah...

Gotta read the thread from the beginning. They were questing for savings. I'm saying the new electronic stuff with the "Affresh" is gimmicky crap that doesn't help.

[Faraday]

I think the question popped up because of their age and the fact that the washer is not energy star rated.

Trudie - When it comes to washing and drying clothes, about the only way to really do it is wash in cold and hang on a clothesline. But I do have ideas for other ways to save or improve efficiency "surrounding" the washer and dryer:

- One trick I've come up with is to simply wash clothes less. Nowadays I hang up my shirts and pants. I wear a tee-shirt under my daily shirts so when I hang them up at the end of the day, they don't smell bad at all. I can go two or three weeks on a set of daily shirts and make only a small pile of tee shirts needing to be washed.

- I'm planning the installation of solar hot water heat and a larger water tank with built-in heat exchanger. This will feed the washer for a hot water source.

- I've got a co-worker whose husband designed a very nice in-the-garage clothes hanger for drying clothes. I'm nowhere near ready to implement, but it looks like a great option if one has a roomy-enough garage. (I live on a dirt road, so an exterior clothesline is a no-go.)

- I have tried tried tried for many years to come up with a way to vent the dryer into the house and no matter what i try, it vents just way too much clothing dust into the home's air. I  might try designing a heat exchanger but I'm not optimistic that's going to do the trick, as any restrictions at all will collect dryer dust.

Other than washing clothes, the next thing that takes the most energy is HVAC, whether it's gas or electric (I have a heat pump). We are working on installation of insulating blinds now and I'm working on DIY exterior storm windows. (Not easy since my windows are vinyl and have no provision for an exterior storm window...arrg). 

After that, I plan to watch the developments in heat pumps and upgrade when I see an air-sourced heat pump that can kick ass compared to the current 13SEER units.

BTW: All my lighting is already fluorescent and I'm planning to swap in some LED bulbs as they become available and cost efficient. House is constructed and insulated to energy star standards with six inch studwalls all around.

[justajane]

- I have tried tried tried for many years to come up with a way to vent the dryer into the house and no matter what i try, it vents just way too much clothing dust into the home's air. I  might try designing a heat exchanger but I'm not optimistic that's going to do the trick, as any restrictions at all will collect dryer dust.

I know - in the winter it always seems like such a waste to vent all that hot air outside, but I haven't pursued a way to vent it inside. Your comment confirms that I should seek savings elsewhere.

I only dry half of our clothes usually. I'm not sure I save that much gas with my hybrid approach to drying, but I mainly do it because shirts last longer if they aren't dried in the dryer. I've even started air drying my shorts, since I found that the dry was thinning them so much.

[eil]

- I have tried tried tried for many years to come up with a way to vent the dryer into the house and no matter what i try, it vents just way too much clothing dust into the home's air. I  might try designing a heat exchanger but I'm not optimistic that's going to do the trick, as any restrictions at all will collect dryer dust.

I know - in the winter it always seems like such a waste to vent all that hot air outside, but I haven't pursued a way to vent it inside. Your comment confirms that I should seek savings elsewhere.

I only dry half of our clothes usually. I'm not sure I save that much gas with my hybrid approach to drying, but I mainly do it because shirts last longer if they aren't dried in the dryer. I've even started air drying my shorts, since I found that the dry was thinning them so much.

Lint and moisture are the enemies when considering venting a dryer inside. You'd need a better lint collection system than the dinky little screen they put inside most dryers and you need a way to condense the moisture that comes out of the clothes. If you just pump it into the basement or utility room, you're guaranteed to get a nasty mold infestation.

And of course you can't vent a gas dryer (the most efficient type) indoors under any circumstances.

[Left]

- I have tried tried tried for many years to come up with a way to vent the dryer into the house and no matter what i try, it vents just way too much clothing dust into the home's air. I  might try designing a heat exchanger but I'm not optimistic that's going to do the trick, as any restrictions at all will collect dryer dust.

I know - in the winter it always seems like such a waste to vent all that hot air outside, but I haven't pursued a way to vent it inside. Your comment confirms that I should seek savings elsewhere.

I only dry half of our clothes usually. I'm not sure I save that much gas with my hybrid approach to drying, but I mainly do it because shirts last longer if they aren't dried in the dryer. I've even started air drying my shorts, since I found that the dry was thinning them so much.

Lint and moisture are the enemies when considering venting a dryer inside. You'd need a better lint collection system than the dinky little screen they put inside most dryers and you need a way to condense the moisture that comes out of the clothes. If you just pump it into the basement or utility room, you're guaranteed to get a nasty mold infestation.

And of course you can't vent a gas dryer (the most efficient type) indoors under any circumstances.

sounds like it would be a good thing in the winter? It's so dry here that I run a humidifer for winter... if it can do this AND heat the room? why wouldn't I?

[Faraday]

- I have tried tried tried for many years to come up with a way to vent the dryer into the house and no matter what i try, it vents just way too much clothing dust into the home's air. I  might try designing a heat exchanger but I'm not optimistic that's going to do the trick, as any restrictions at all will collect dryer dust.

I know - in the winter it always seems like such a waste to vent all that hot air outside, but I haven't pursued a way to vent it inside. Your comment confirms that I should seek savings elsewhere.

I only dry half of our clothes usually. I'm not sure I save that much gas with my hybrid approach to drying, but I mainly do it because shirts last longer if they aren't dried in the dryer. I've even started air drying my shorts, since I found that the dry was thinning them so much.

justajane - I've not given up yet, I am plotting more schemes for a direct-vent option and I have a heat exchanger design I'm working on also.

These are two separate ideas - in the direct-vent case, you get some of that delicious humidity in the winter. In the heat exchanger option, you only get some of the heat reclaimed in an air-to-air heat exchanger.

I'll be careful to point out that I'm working with an electric dryer - as has been said in this thread, you cannot vent a gas dryer, the output is deadly.

I'll start a thread and share what I come up with if I see any success.

[Rosy]

LOL at mefla - love your tagline:)

Trudie, this is one of the few times I am glad to live in Florida, I can line dry all year long. On the replacement I can only add don't get a Samsung, apparently they even had a lawsuit brought against them, because you could not get rid of the odor the washing machine developed after a time. Sheeesh.
I already said I voted for keeping them until they die. Never heard of Speedqueen, but we have a front loading Duet HT from Whirlpool that has all the bells and whistles you could want and has never given us any trouble.
... and yes, I am one of those weirdos who uses all the cycles and bells and whistles:) Love the sanitary cycle that actually boils the water - great if you have someone pee in your bed, or diapers to wash.
I also love the handwash, thanks to whoever invented this - it works great - no wrinkles from the mashine washing, the silk - don't need it much, but saves me on dry cleaning bill,s and the extra rinse cycle - which I like for my blankets and comforters. It is a big machine so I can even get outdoor cushions and large rugs to fit in the drum.
I sure hope this thing lasts another ten years and if your machines die - you might look for one of them. DH likes the quick wash set on cold water for his regular wash, I only do the "special stuff" and yes it has an energy star.

[Cadman]

Trudie, DO NOT get rid of those Maytags!

If they are true Newton, IA units, all parts are available at very modest cost to keep them running forever. Often a NLA part can be substituted since Maytag used the same basic bullet proof design for 30+ years. I say this as an appliance collector with a number of Maytags that see daily use. The new front loaders use less water, but at the expense of prolonged wash times (which translates to more electricity). The avg life of a new appliance is now less than 7 years, and it's no longer in the manufacturer's best interest to make a long-lasting unit at higher cost.

While it doesn't immediately show itself on your bottom line, it takes a lot more energy and natural resources to manufacture, transport and merchandise that new machine that will just make it through the warranty period, than it does to keep an old one (that uses more water) going.

[Trudie]

Trudie, DO NOT get rid of those Maytags!

If they are true Newton, IA units, all parts are available at very modest cost to keep them running forever. Often a NLA part can be substituted since Maytag used the same basic bullet proof design for 30+ years. I say this as an appliance collector with a number of Maytags that see daily use. The new front loaders use less water, but at the expense of prolonged wash times (which translates to more electricity). The avg life of a new appliance is now less than 7 years, and it's no longer in the manufacturer's best interest to make a long-lasting unit at higher cost.

While it doesn't immediately show itself on your bottom line, it takes a lot more energy and natural resources to manufacture, transport and merchandise that new machine that will just make it through the warranty period, than it does to keep an old one (that uses more water) going.

Cadman - yes, they are from Newton!  We were Maytag stockholders at the time and quite proud to buy them.  So, we shall keep them running forever, hopefully.

[Faraday]

Trudie, DO NOT get rid of those Maytags!

If they are true Newton, IA units, all parts are available at very modest cost to keep them running forever. Often a NLA part can be substituted since Maytag used the same basic bullet proof design for 30+ years. I say this as an appliance collector with a number of Maytags that see daily use. The new front loaders use less water, but at the expense of prolonged wash times (which translates to more electricity). The avg life of a new appliance is now less than 7 years, and it's no longer in the manufacturer's best interest to make a long-lasting unit at higher cost.

While it doesn't immediately show itself on your bottom line, it takes a lot more energy and natural resources to manufacture, transport and merchandise that new machine that will just make it through the warranty period, than it does to keep an old one (that uses more water) going.

You GO cadman! Lovin your informed posting from Iowa!

[Trudie]

I think I'll take the savings on the Maytag washer and dryer and put it toward some fancy Maytag blue cheese.  (love that stuff!)

[Faraday]

I think I'll take the savings on the Maytag washer and dryer and put it toward some fancy Maytag blue cheese.  (love that stuff!)

Trudie, I just NOW learned what you were talking about!

http://www.maytagdairyfarms.com/aspx/welcome.aspx

and...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maytag_Blue_cheese

Interesting! I gotta get back up to the wonderful upper midwest and find out what this is all about!