Author Topic: What would you do?  (Read 2261 times)

CanCD

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What would you do?
« on: November 26, 2021, 09:57:32 AM »
Good morning everyone and thanks for taking the time to read my post. Please allow me to lay out the background details for you and then I'll ask my question at the end.
I'm 30 years old, married with two kids (23 months and 1 month) I love my family very much and am an extremely involved father and husband. (Pertinent info, not a flex)
My wife and I reached FIRE this month and I am looking to further my education.
I have always been fascinated with the why and how of the world.
I have no post secondary education. I've been in a skilled trade since I was 18. I barely passed high school but that was due to lack of focus and discipline. Things have changed quite a bit since then and I just completed English 12 and physics 12 with 95% and 98% respectively. English was fairly easy for me, physics was difficult and required alot of extra work on my behalf to achieve that mark.
My severance package from my employer includes 2 years of all expenses paid education.
My local university offers a 2 year engineering diploma (transferrable to a 4 year engineering degree) which can be completed over 4 years.
This is an option I am seriously considering. I do not want to go to school full time, for the aforementioned family reasons. So splitting it over 4 years with 2-3 classes per term seems like a reasonable workload to me.(acknowledging I know very little about the field)
I am honestly also open to any other possibilities be it formal education or otherwise. It's interesting, we worked hard to get FIRE and then it's kind of like, for me anyways, now what ? More in a low key existential way, not a big deal. I will always have plenty to do and occupy myself.
Also important, my wife is ecstatic for me to pursue anything I please, so long as we maintain a nice family / other things balance.

Please advise in any way possible if you think this could be a good fit for me , or otherwise. Thanks so much everyone and have a great day.

former player

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2021, 10:33:44 AM »
Congratulations on reaching FIRE at the age of 30, that's impressive.

My immediate reaction to your post is that you've got life dialed down and will be fine whatever you do, and that the results of your recent English and Physics studies suggest that you have the ability and attitude for that to include a two or four year engineering degree.

I remember seeing some statistics that people studying for a degree part-time tend to drop out at significantly higher rates than those studying full time, but that may be for extraneous reasons (eg far more likely to be working full time and/or have significant family responsibilities) rather than being inherent to studying part-time.  If you are in good standing with the university you could probably move between part and full time as suits you at the moment.

terran

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2021, 10:39:09 AM »
Sounds good. If going to school sounds like the way you'd like to spend your retirement then definitely do it. Engineering is a very practical degree, which is great for someone who needs to earn a living. Since you don't I'd be curious why engineering is the degree you're leaning towards. Do you just want to learn about how things work? Want the challenge? Want to build/invent things? Might want to go back to work? Etc?

CanCD

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2021, 11:22:51 AM »
Congratulations on reaching FIRE at the age of 30, that's impressive.

My immediate reaction to your post is that you've got life dialed down and will be fine whatever you do, and that the results of your recent English and Physics studies suggest that you have the ability and attitude for that to include a two or four year engineering degree.

I remember seeing some statistics that people studying for a degree part-time tend to drop out at significantly higher rates than those studying full time, but that may be for extraneous reasons (eg far more likely to be working full time and/or have significant family responsibilities) rather than being inherent to studying part-time.  If you are in good standing with the university you could probably move between part and full time as suits you at the moment.

Thank you very much for your compliment and reply. I hope you are correct. I worry about being able to complete the course load and family. I have heard it's brutal. I do like your comment re: flexibility to change based on current situation.

CanCD

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2021, 11:34:40 AM »
Sounds good. If going to school sounds like the way you'd like to spend your retirement then definitely do it. Engineering is a very practical degree, which is great for someone who needs to earn a living. Since you don't I'd be curious why engineering is the degree you're leaning towards. Do you just want to learn about how things work? Want the challenge? Want to build/invent things? Might want to go back to work? Etc?

Thank you very much for your reply. You asked a great question: why?

Honestly I don't know exactly. Part of it is ego, I think. Feeling like because I didn't continue to post secondary I haven't achieved enough ? My sister's both went into professional programs whereas I was the youngest and rowdy tradesman. I'm not sure if that has.anything to do with it, which I acknowledge is a bit of a ridiculous reason to go to school, or do anything, for that matter.  The rest of your potential reasons, I answered all "yes".
But as I mentioned, I'm still very much head on a swivel and my interests are so wide and varied (is this just me or all mustachians?) So I am open to anything at this point.

Thanks again and I don't mean to overshare personal things, I am pretty open about mental health so it just kind of came out and then I thought, it's the truth..might as well leave it there.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2021, 06:36:12 PM »
Sounds great, do it if it excites you and doesn’t hurt you or your family. All the best.

AMandM

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2021, 07:37:18 PM »
This is the line that jumped out at me:
I have always been fascinated with the why and how of the world.
Engineering may or may not be a good way to satisfy that fascination, depending on what kind of "why and how" fascinates you. When you took physics, did you go, "Oooh!" when you figured out why a cyclist leans over when going around a curve? Or are you more fascinated by why people lie, or by how house prices relate to interest rates, or.... In other words, in your shoes I would think about which aspects of "the why and how of the world" you really want to learn the nitty-gritty of, and study that.

Congrats on being in the position of having this choice to make!

elaine amj

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2021, 11:38:08 PM »
Are there practical things you are expecting to learn with your engineering diploma?

4 years of part time study for your engineering diploma and your employer will cover half (2 years study, right?). What do you hope to do with it afterwards?  Will you continue on to get your undergraduate degree? So another 4-5 years part time?

Another option is a short diploma that would take 2 years to do part time that is in a field of study you really like or has knowledge that could be useful to you in the future.

Good luck choosing!

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deborah

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2021, 01:27:41 AM »
I finished work and FIREd and started a degree part time. I never finished it. My parents were elderly and lived about 8 hours drive away. Dad developed cancer as I was beginning my third year, and I kept on needing to go there very often - too often to continue my course that year. Then they changed the course, and it no longer included the things I wanted to study.

One of the problems with studying part time is that courses do regularly change, and part timers get caught up in the changes. Some of the things I had studied were no longer in the course. Some of the units had changed to include extra things that were required for later units. It was a mess, and I never did get an answer about what I actually needed to do to continue.

If you intend to do a course part time, I think you need to commit to doing the course every year.

uniwelder

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2021, 03:19:18 AM »
What kind of engineering and do you intend to finish the 4 year degree or stop at 2?

I went to community college for the first 2 years and then transferred to a university to finish my mechanical engineering degree. The first half provides very little practical knowledge. It’s mostly weed out and background courses you’ll never need again. 4 semesters of calculus and differential equations? Not particularly useful for 95% of graduates, and even then only sparingly. Besides stoking your ego, getting through the community college program probably won’t satisfy your curiosity. If you’re not interested in transferring, could you just select various classes that interest you? Or at least start with the ones you find interesting within a program that have no other prerequisites? Intro to economics comes to mind as one I enjoyed.

CanCD

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2021, 06:28:53 AM »
This is the line that jumped out at me:
I have always been fascinated with the why and how of the world.
Engineering may or may not be a good way to satisfy that fascination, depending on what kind of "why and how" fascinates you. When you took physics, did you go, "Oooh!" when you figured out why a cyclist leans over when going around a curve? Or are you more fascinated by why people lie, or by how house prices relate to interest rates, or.... In other words, in your shoes I would think about which aspects of "the why and how of the world" you really want to learn the nitty-gritty of, and study that.

Congrats on being in the position of having this choice to make!

Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately, I find all three of your topics interesting ! I could try to narrow down by ranking them.

CanCD

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2021, 06:31:04 AM »
I finished work and FIREd and started a degree part time. I never finished it. My parents were elderly and lived about 8 hours drive away. Dad developed cancer as I was beginning my third year, and I kept on needing to go there very often - too often to continue my course that year. Then they changed the course, and it no longer included the things I wanted to study.

One of the problems with studying part time is that courses do regularly change, and part timers get caught up in the changes. Some of the things I had studied were no longer in the course. Some of the units had changed to include extra things that were required for later units. It was a mess, and I never did get an answer about what I actually needed to do to continue.

If you intend to do a course part time, I think you need to commit to doing the course every year.

Thank you for your comment and I am very sorry to hear about your father. That sounds like a terrible situation and the distance would only exacerbate it.
I appreciate your words of caution. I would plan to do two courses a semester, year round.

CanCD

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2021, 06:37:11 AM »
What kind of engineering and do you intend to finish the 4 year degree or stop at 2?

I went to community college for the first 2 years and then transferred to a university to finish my mechanical engineering degree. The first half provides very little practical knowledge. It’s mostly weed out and background courses you’ll never need again. 4 semesters of calculus and differential equations? Not particularly useful for 95% of graduates, and even then only sparingly. Besides stoking your ego, getting through the community college program probably won’t satisfy your curiosity. If you’re not interested in transferring, could you just select various classes that interest you? Or at least start with the ones you find interesting within a program that have no other prerequisites? Intro to economics comes to mind as one I enjoyed.

Thank you very much for taking the time to reply, also congratulations on your degree. What a huge accomplishment!
I have no clue what type of engineering. Is it just me or common to Mustachians to be interested in everything?
I likely would continue to the degree. The kids will be older so I would be more comfortable being away from home more at that time.
Unfortunately, my community college (Nova Scotia, Canada) does not offer a program that is transferrable to the engineering degree. Aggravating. I do enjoy economics so that is a good suggestion. I suppose I could just take courses at my leisure, with no plan to complete. My employer only pays if the program can be completed in two years though, which is a nice bonus to have it all paid for (child care.covered.too!) But isn't end all be all for my situation.

AccidentialMustache

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2021, 08:40:12 AM »
The one thing I'd comment is keep your skill/membership at your trade up. Then, in case life takes a turn for the worst, you're ready to fall back into that, if need be.

GoConfidently

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2021, 09:21:51 AM »
Have you thought at all about pursuing something artistic? Artists are always grappling with the how and why of the world in practical (ex. how to make this heavy thing look weightless) and philosophical ways. Your hands-on background will give you some practical and transferable skills. Art is something you can not only do on your own but also share with your family. Art history is fascinating and world expanding, can be as broad or as niche as you care to take it. You sound like the perfect candidate for a good ceramics program to me.

Dicey

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2021, 10:39:09 AM »
A friend from high school was from a blue collar background and not an enthusiastic student, to say the least. He went to work in the oil fields around Bakersfield after graduating from HS. He married his HS sweetheart and they had a couple of kids early on.

Eventually, he wanted his own engineering firm. He started one by hiring engineers. He was very successful, but eventually yearned for those certificates on the wall to have his name on them, so he went back to school around the time his kids were in high school. He continued to run his firm while attending college. He graduated, then went after his PE. He missed our 40 year class reunion, because he was graduating from college that day. Best excuse ever, IMO.

CanCD

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2021, 11:21:28 AM »
Have you thought at all about pursuing something artistic? Artists are always grappling with the how and why of the world in practical (ex. how to make this heavy thing look weightless) and philosophical ways. Your hands-on background will give you some practical and transferable skills. Art is something you can not only do on your own but also share with your family. Art history is fascinating and world expanding, can be as broad or as niche as you care to take it. You sound like the perfect candidate for a good ceramics program to me.

Very interesting point of view, I have never considered art. I would call myself a point above hopeless but you never know until you give it a shot.
I am glad I asked the community for advice. Ceramics..how interesting !

CanCD

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2021, 11:22:34 AM »
A friend from high school was from a blue collar background and not an enthusiastic student, to say the least. He went to work in the oil fields around Bakersfield after graduating from HS. He married his HS sweetheart and they had a couple of kids early on.

Eventually, he wanted his own engineering firm. He started one by hiring engineers. He was very successful, but eventually yearned for those certificates on the wall to have his name on them, so he went back to school around the time his kids were in high school. He continued to run his firm while attending college. He graduated, then went after his PE. He missed our 40 year class reunion, because he was graduating from college that day. Best excuse ever, IMO.
[/quote

Thank you for your reply. Sounds like a very interesting guy ! Good for him. I love people that think out of the box.

gooki

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2021, 12:12:43 PM »
FWIW, I'm similar to you in that my interests are very broad.

I explored completing an engineering degree, but my local college (where it's free to study) doesn't offer it at this campus.

The local university offers it, but it's a lot of $$$, and I'm not using the degree to get a job, just to expand my skill set.

The plan I've come to is just turn up to the lectures at the University without enrolling and see if I enjoy the learning style (FWIW university moved too slow for me when I went there some 20 years ago). And then at the same time see what I can learn online.

Then reevaluate after 6 months to a year.

GoConfidently

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2021, 02:00:48 PM »
Have you thought at all about pursuing something artistic? Artists are always grappling with the how and why of the world in practical (ex. how to make this heavy thing look weightless) and philosophical ways. Your hands-on background will give you some practical and transferable skills. Art is something you can not only do on your own but also share with your family. Art history is fascinating and world expanding, can be as broad or as niche as you care to take it. You sound like the perfect candidate for a good ceramics program to me.

Very interesting point of view, I have never considered art. I would call myself a point above hopeless but you never know until you give it a shot.
I am glad I asked the community for advice. Ceramics..how interesting !

Definitely not hopeless. Inexperienced and untrained is not hopeless.

So here’s why I said ceramics specifically. One, the entry point is low. Most people without training in art are intimidated by drawing (and by extension painting), but there’s a real sense of play with a squishy clump of clay that breaks down the intimidation factor. Two, you can take it as functional or sculptural as you want to. Making bowls is a completely different mind set than making a figure. Three, your skills are transferable as your ideas change. Building a coil pot is the same start to building a hollow figure with coils. Four, there’s no way to run out of new things to learn. Making clay from natural deposits, building kilns, making glazes, studying different cultural traditions, etc. You can dedicate your life to clay and never run out of new things to try. Five, contemporary ceramics makes space for everyone. Ceramic art can spark conversations about modern warfare, or just be a really good mug with a nice glaze. You’ll find a great, diverse, quirky, welcoming community in ceramics. Six, making stuff is really fun and satisfying in a way that nothing else is. Seven, ceramics is quite technical and if you want to dive into developing glazes or alternative firing, it feels more like science than art sometimes. Eight, once school is finished, continuing to practice just requires some space and tools and your internal motivation.

Most importantly, do you want to be the brother that had a rowdy start in the trades and then finally “caught up” with his college educated siblings? Or do you want to be the badass brother who retired early on a blue collar salary and became an artist who makes beautiful things for other people to enjoy?

But seriously, if you’re still not sold on ceramics, make a list of the whys you want to go back to school and be really honest. Mark out the reasons (like ego) that are bad reasons to dedicate your time to this pursuit. The remaining ones might guide you. And if none are left, then be secure in the truth that you worked hard for FIRE and dedicating the next two years to being a great dad and partner is more valuable than a free college program that doesn’t mean much to you.

Dogastrophe

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2021, 02:24:33 PM »
My 2 cents. If you go the eng route and want to do a BSc after the 2 year program, send an email to Dal's engineering department and ask them which, if any, courses in the NSCC eng tech programs are transferrable. Many (many) years ago, the two year mechanical and civil engineering technology programs at CC would knock a year to a year and half off the 5 year BScEng programs.
FWIW, in my engineering degree - the interesting stuff didn't happen until into year 4 (my eng degree was 5 years).




CanCD

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2021, 03:26:07 PM »
FWIW, I'm similar to you in that my interests are very broad.

I explored completing an engineering degree, but my local college (where it's free to study) doesn't offer it at this campus.

The local university offers it, but it's a lot of $$$, and I'm not using the degree to get a job, just to expand my skill set.

The plan I've come to is just turn up to the lectures at the University without enrolling and see if I enjoy the learning style (FWIW university moved too slow for me when I went there some 20 years ago). And then at the same time see what I can learn online.

Then reevaluate after 6 months to a year.

Thank you for your reply. I had thought the same thing ! Just take it for a test drive. Can't hurt and no barrier to entry.
My wife who has 3 degrees cautioned me against romancing a university experience and to be aware I will spend time in classes I don't care about in order to fulfill a degree requirement. That gave me pause, as I am leaving my job now as a supervisor because I do not care about the beauacracy and reports about reports. It just wears on a person after a while. So I would hate to think that I swapped that situation for a similar one (although smaller scale) 

CanCD

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2021, 03:33:36 PM »
Have you thought at all about pursuing something artistic? Artists are always grappling with the how and why of the world in practical (ex. how to make this heavy thing look weightless) and philosophical ways. Your hands-on background will give you some practical and transferable skills. Art is something you can not only do on your own but also share with your family. Art history is fascinating and world expanding, can be as broad or as niche as you care to take it. You sound like the perfect candidate for a good ceramics program to me.

Very interesting point of view, I have never considered art. I would call myself a point above hopeless but you never know until you give it a shot.
I am glad I asked the community for advice. Ceramics..how interesting !

Definitely not hopeless. Inexperienced and untrained is not hopeless.

So here’s why I said ceramics specifically. One, the entry point is low. Most people without training in art are intimidated by drawing (and by extension painting), but there’s a real sense of play with a squishy clump of clay that breaks down the intimidation factor. Two, you can take it as functional or sculptural as you want to. Making bowls is a completely different mind set than making a figure. Three, your skills are transferable as your ideas change. Building a coil pot is the same start to building a hollow figure with coils. Four, there’s no way to run out of new things to learn. Making clay from natural deposits, building kilns, making glazes, studying different cultural traditions, etc. You can dedicate your life to clay and never run out of new things to try. Five, contemporary ceramics makes space for everyone. Ceramic art can spark conversations about modern warfare, or just be a really good mug with a nice glaze. You’ll find a great, diverse, quirky, welcoming community in ceramics. Six, making stuff is really fun and satisfying in a way that nothing else is. Seven, ceramics is quite technical and if you want to dive into developing glazes or alternative firing, it feels more like science than art sometimes. Eight, once school is finished, continuing to practice just requires some space and tools and your internal motivation.

Most importantly, do you want to be the brother that had a rowdy start in the trades and then finally “caught up” with his college educated siblings? Or do you want to be the badass brother who retired early on a blue collar salary and became an artist who makes beautiful things for other people to enjoy?

But seriously, if you’re still not sold on ceramics, make a list of the whys you want to go back to school and be really honest. Mark out the reasons (like ego) that are bad reasons to dedicate your time to this pursuit. The remaining ones might guide you. And if none are left, then be secure in the truth that you worked hard for FIRE and dedicating the next two years to being a great dad and partner is more valuable than a free college program that doesn’t mean much to you.

Wow ! Thank you so much for your very convincing and eye opening argument. (Artument?)
I am very interested now !!
I know it's silly and egotistical. I should also say my sister's are lovely and very smart, who pass no judgement on me in the slightest. And in fact, don't particularly enjoy the jobs their degrees allowed them to obtain (medical doctor and accountant).
I am extremely hard on myself and am working on that. (Really good work book called "Mind Over Mood" if anyone is interested in changing how they think/feel day to day)
Honestly it doesn't "feel" right thinking of me sitting at school every day. But a hybrid approach might do just fine.
(Learn at Khan academy, or somewhere else asynchronous and uncredentialed)

Honestly who the heck knows, I don't need to decide right now but there is that pressure again to be constantly progressing. It can be hard to shut that off after working to FIRE for 6 years. It wasn't even what I would call a death March either..but it is on my mind constantly.

CanCD

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2021, 03:52:29 PM »
My 2 cents. If you go the eng route and want to do a BSc after the 2 year program, send an email to Dal's engineering department and ask them which, if any, courses in the NSCC eng tech programs are transferrable. Many (many) years ago, the two year mechanical and civil engineering technology programs at CC would knock a year to a year and half off the 5 year BScEng programs.
FWIW, in my engineering degree - the interesting stuff didn't happen until into year 4 (my eng degree was 5 years).

Thank you very much for your applicable and local comment ! I have never knowingly met another Mustachian around here. Except my wife , she introduced me to the mindset. (Thank you wifey!!!)
Congratulations on your degree, that is a serious accomplishment!
I would love to do a diploma at Nscc first. Their website lists all the transferrable degree and there is no mention of Engineering. It can't hurt to contact Dal and I will. The more I learn about the school, the more it seems like a money grab. I wouldn't be surprised to see them not accept the lowly (and cheaper) Nscc diploma.

LightStache

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2021, 01:49:08 PM »
FWIW, I'm similar to you in that my interests are very broad.

I explored completing an engineering degree, but my local college (where it's free to study) doesn't offer it at this campus.

The local university offers it, but it's a lot of $$$, and I'm not using the degree to get a job, just to expand my skill set.

The plan I've come to is just turn up to the lectures at the University without enrolling and see if I enjoy the learning style (FWIW university moved too slow for me when I went there some 20 years ago). And then at the same time see what I can learn online.

Then reevaluate after 6 months to a year.

Thank you for your reply. I had thought the same thing ! Just take it for a test drive. Can't hurt and no barrier to entry.
My wife who has 3 degrees cautioned me against romancing a university experience and to be aware I will spend time in classes I don't care about in order to fulfill a degree requirement. That gave me pause, as I am leaving my job now as a supervisor because I do not care about the beauacracy and reports about reports. It just wears on a person after a while. So I would hate to think that I swapped that situation for a similar one (although smaller scale)

Like anything worthwhile, certain aspects of a degree program are going to suck. Bad instructors. The one class you need that's not scheduled during the term you need it. Fees for stuff you're not going to use.

But I'd do it anyway just to prove to myself that I can. If you don't get a degree, you're likely to look back in 50 years with regret that you never tried. As long as you do an affordable program, there's really no reason not to try.