Author Topic: What would you do?  (Read 1833 times)

Murse

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What would you do?
« on: June 19, 2020, 11:13:54 PM »
Hello everyone,

I am a nurse. I work more than full time and make over 100k/year. I am 28 years old, am married, and we think my wife is pregnant. Our goal for a long time has been to work and save until 30 and call ourselves barista FI and both work part time allowing our assets to keep growing. Current net worth is 350kish. I was projecting we would have 600kish at the time we switched to part time work at 30 yo.

Now COVID is here. Work is stressful. I am feeling burnt out. I have always been one to do a good job at work, so my reward has always been more work. I have many coworkers taking various types of covid leave, leaving even more of the work on me.

I am taking some time off work next month, hoping that will help. I have around 600 hours of various types of accrued leave. The opportunity has come up at work to switch to part time (20 hours per week) this year. I am not sure if I should make the jump early?

Reasons to make the jump now-
-Feeling burnt out
-The person I would be sharing hours with plans to retire in 2-3 years allowing me to go back to ft if desired
-Possibly 1st baby on the way
-I could pick up more shifts as desired
-when the other nurse retires and I can go back to full time I could do 2 years then to make up for the 2 years I would be skipping now(if I wanted)

Reasons to wait-
- we have not hit our goal (600k)
- we currently rent, I am concerned working part time may complicate getting a mortgage
- I would be forfeiting 4 hours sick leave and 5 hours vacation per month
- insurance would cost 250 more per month
-I just got promoted to a lead position (5% extra) so I would likely have to give that up hurting my resume
-I am the union president, we are starting negotiations in December meaning Iíll be spending time (2days per month) away from work anyways in 6 months
-with a baby on the way and 600 hours of leave I could take off a large amount of time to help with the burnout while collecting full pay/benefits

Basically if I switched to part time so would my wife and we would barely tread water financially. Again we could both pick up more shifts as desired to pay for extras as needed. It would be a simple life where if we want more we work more but have a lot of extra time.

Would you make the jump this year or wait at least another year?

coconutindex

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2020, 01:23:16 AM »
I just have a few thoughts. First, delay the decision (if possible) till after your leave next month. Itís not easy making good decisions when you are exhausted from work. If you start using that accrued leave you would sort of be working part time already!  Second, you seem to take on/be given a lot of extra responsibility and work. I commend you for that, but is it feasible for you to just do full time work without the extra stuff? Last point: as a health care worker and father my self, I definitely recommend scaling back hours to spend time with the kids, but I think I would postpone doing it until the child is born and maybe a bit older. (Not too old, but closer to a year maybe?)

2Birds1Stone

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2020, 02:45:14 AM »
You didn't share your expenses, which would be a big part of the FT vs. PT equation. Does she work? 3.5x income in NW is not all that high, but if your expenses are low enough (or you have two incomes) then PT could be the best of both worlds. Can you go PT after burning your 600 hours of PTO?

former player

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2020, 02:47:49 AM »
You have 15 weeks of accrued leave, so it's not surprising you are feeling burned out - anyone would be.

I think you should take three months off, starting now, and see how you feel at the end of it.

Freedomin5

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2020, 05:33:44 AM »
I also think you should not make a decision right now. Use some of your leave. Take some time off. Rest a bit, and then see how you feel.

Also, I wouldnít worry too much about giving up the lead position. Youíre still young and could easily regain the position with your work ethic. And 5% extra isnít really that much money.

FWIW, I dropped to part-time before getting a mortgage. It didnít really affect us much because the bank looked at total income, and the mortgage we wanted was quite a bit less than what we could afford.

Murse

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2020, 07:27:07 AM »
You didn't share your expenses, which would be a big part of the FT vs. PT equation. Does she work? 3.5x income in NW is not all that high, but if your expenses are low enough (or you have two incomes) then PT could be the best of both worlds. Can you go PT after burning your 600 hours of PTO?

We have two incomes currently, I would conservatively put our annual expenses at 45k/year (I have only tracked 1 year with mint.) this would likely be 50-55k when a mortgage enters the picture.

As for the questions of delaying, I could absolutely delay. If I went part time I was hoping to do it Jan 1st so I could change my benefits to better fit. I could also let my manager hire someone else part time, continue working full time and switch to part time at a later date.

As for the comments on having so much accrued leave- I do take time off every year but I used comp time (banked OT hours.) My strategy with this is to delay as much income as I can because I get annual raises of 7-8% per year. I also know I will switch to part time at some point and so I can delay the income, then cash out some of the leave while working PT to decrease my tax burden (vs taking the OT now and paying taxes on it while making >100k in a high tax state.) I hope that makes sense.

former player

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2020, 09:21:47 AM »
You didn't share your expenses, which would be a big part of the FT vs. PT equation. Does she work? 3.5x income in NW is not all that high, but if your expenses are low enough (or you have two incomes) then PT could be the best of both worlds. Can you go PT after burning your 600 hours of PTO?

We have two incomes currently, I would conservatively put our annual expenses at 45k/year (I have only tracked 1 year with mint.) this would likely be 50-55k when a mortgage enters the picture.

As for the questions of delaying, I could absolutely delay. If I went part time I was hoping to do it Jan 1st so I could change my benefits to better fit. I could also let my manager hire someone else part time, continue working full time and switch to part time at a later date.

As for the comments on having so much accrued leave- I do take time off every year but I used comp time (banked OT hours.) My strategy with this is to delay as much income as I can because I get annual raises of 7-8% per year. I also know I will switch to part time at some point and so I can delay the income, then cash out some of the leave while working PT to decrease my tax burden (vs taking the OT now and paying taxes on it while making >100k in a high tax state.) I hope that makes sense.
It makes perfect sense.  Except for the part about being burnt out.

Young man, you need the sort of good talking to I hope you give to patients who aren't taking their meds properly.  You are burnt out and you need to do something about that now, not in January.  You need to look after your own mental and physical health.  You need not to catch coronavirus at work and bring it home to your wife because you are burnt out and tired and it will be far too easy for you to make a stupid slip up.  You need to remember that your qualifications and success in getting a job that suits you so well will mean nothing if your burn out gets bad enough for you to either make a bad mistake at work or just not be able to make yourself go into work any more.

Right now you need the time off far more than you need the money from working overtime and not taking enough holidays.

(Also, financially speaking, all those banked hours are actually losing you money and you would do better either taking the hours as holiday or cashing them out and investing the money now.  The discount on the value of money in the future as against money now is high enough for your strategy to be worth a lot less than you think it is, taking into account inflation and lost opportunity cost in the meantime.)

BTDretire

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2020, 09:33:38 AM »
I don't think you have enough net worth to quit. But, I would tell people that even if they had $1M.
Yes, you have a stressful job and need a way to reduce that.
You have so much time accrued, could you drop to 4 days a week and use 1 day of accrued time each week. That would leave 3 days to de-stress. Or, work every other day.
Find any other ways to deal with the stress.
You still need to build your wealth.

MudPuppy

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2020, 10:09:51 AM »
From one nurse to another, take a vacation. You going to burn all the way out. Not only that, but (heaven forbid) youíre going to start making mistakes and missing things. We donít have the kind of job where thatís okay. Take care of yourself!

I donít think youíre ready to go PT until you buy your house unless your wife works FT. Even then sheíll have a lot of time off with the baby and that might complicate the financial picture.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2020, 03:57:24 PM by MudPuppy »

Sibley

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2020, 02:58:51 PM »
You're working more than full time, and backing your various leave, including comp time. Of course you're burning out.

Stop working overtime. Take a few weeks off if you can. Your employer will adjust.

Rosy

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2020, 03:10:13 PM »
You didn't share your expenses, which would be a big part of the FT vs. PT equation. Does she work? 3.5x income in NW is not all that high, but if your expenses are low enough (or you have two incomes) then PT could be the best of both worlds. Can you go PT after burning your 600 hours of PTO?

We have two incomes currently, I would conservatively put our annual expenses at 45k/year (I have only tracked 1 year with mint.) this would likely be 50-55k when a mortgage enters the picture.

As for the questions of delaying, I could absolutely delay. If I went part time I was hoping to do it Jan 1st so I could change my benefits to better fit. I could also let my manager hire someone else part time, continue working full time and switch to part time at a later date.

As for the comments on having so much accrued leave- I do take time off every year but I used comp time (banked OT hours.) My strategy with this is to delay as much income as I can because I get annual raises of 7-8% per year. I also know I will switch to part time at some point and so I can delay the income, then cash out some of the leave while working PT to decrease my tax burden (vs taking the OT now and paying taxes on it while making >100k in a high tax state.) I hope that makes sense.
It makes perfect sense.  Except for the part about being burnt out.

Young man, you need the sort of good talking to I hope you give to patients who aren't taking their meds properly.  You are burnt out and you need to do something about that now, not in January.  You need to look after your own mental and physical health.  You need not to catch coronavirus at work and bring it home to your wife because you are burnt out and tired and it will be far too easy for you to make a stupid slip up.  You need to remember that your qualifications and success in getting a job that suits you so well will mean nothing if your burn out gets bad enough for you to either make a bad mistake at work or just not be able to make yourself go into work any more.

Right now you need the time off far more than you need the money from working overtime and not taking enough holidays.

(Also, financially speaking, all those banked hours are actually losing you money and you would do better either taking the hours as holiday or cashing them out and investing the money now.  The discount on the value of money in the future as against money now is high enough for your strategy to be worth a lot less than you think it is, taking into account inflation and lost opportunity cost in the meantime.)

Listen to former player and the mudpuppy nurse - take the time off - NOW!
You are not thinking clearly - burn out will do that to you.
With COVID and its consequences still on the rampage, I don't think anything is safe to assume - stay put until your mind and body have had a chance to rest.
A baby changes everything - you'll need more money and mental strength and the fortitude to wait and see before you make any decisions.

Get some time off and rest while you can - your future self will thank you.


MayDay

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2020, 03:36:19 PM »
I suggest taking off a full week or two, and then taking one day a week from r a couple months.

I'm currently furloughed 1 day a week and it is awesome.. highly recommend!

You can also take 12 weeks unpaid FMLA when your baby is born (assuming you don't work for the same hospital as your wife) so I wouldn't worry about using up leave prior to that.


Cassie

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2020, 01:23:33 PM »
Take a few weeks off and then quit working OT.

thd7t

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2020, 01:43:13 PM »
Lots of good advice here, but when you say you think your wife is pregnant, what does a pregnancy test say?  If she hasn't taken one, get some tests.  They're cheap and work well.  You don't need to be in the dark about this.

Murse

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2020, 04:20:36 PM »
I took today off. I appreciate all of the advice. When I said we think she is pregnant what I meant was is she had been taking tests twice weekly due to strange symptoms. She did another one yesterday and came up positive.

Itís weird, and I know I am not at work, but since the positive test I havenít been feeling fatigued and the thought of work hasnít been weighing on me. We will see how I feel when I go back to work but for right now I feel like work doesnít matter. Hopefully it lasts.

MudPuppy

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2020, 04:37:17 PM »
Iím glad you took a little time! Congratulations on the big news!

thd7t

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2020, 08:12:46 AM »
I took today off. I appreciate all of the advice. When I said we think she is pregnant what I meant was is she had been taking tests twice weekly due to strange symptoms. She did another one yesterday and came up positive.

Itís weird, and I know I am not at work, but since the positive test I havenít been feeling fatigued and the thought of work hasnít been weighing on me. We will see how I feel when I go back to work but for right now I feel like work doesnít matter. Hopefully it lasts.
You're living with a lot of uncertainty right now.  Having some of it removed was probably a big weight off.  Congrats!

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2020, 01:04:58 PM »
Iíll second using some of your accrued leave to take 2 weeks off. I just did that and wow, what a difference. I didnít think I could and thought Iíd be letting everyone down but the stress got to be too much. Best decision. Back at work now and it seems more manageable and less pressurized. During my time off I cut out all stress: news, FB or anyone that was stressful (avoid President Nutjob like the plague). Celebrate this good news with your partner, make special time for each other and forget about workóit wonít fall apart without you. When you return commit to having more time for you. I wouldnít hurt yourself financially, especially with a baby on the way as that will add different stresses. Commit to being creative to staying in track, while looking after yourself. You need a break though to get distance and see things more clearly.

John Galt incarnate!

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2020, 01:40:38 PM »


Basically if I switched to part time so would my wife and we would barely tread water financially. Again we could both pick up more shifts as desired to pay for extras as needed. It would be a simple life where if we want more we work more but have a lot of extra time.

Would you make the jump this year or wait at least another year?

Under no circumstances would I  place myself in a precarious financial position ("barely tread water financially").

However, you and your wife sit in the catbird seat in that both of you can  add shifts to your work schedules to earn more money if needed.

Since each of you enjoy this advantage of a guaranteed option to increase your income I advise  you and your wife  to switch to part time now rather than wait another year for a simpler life of more extra time.



 
« Last Edit: June 23, 2020, 02:31:58 PM by John Galt incarnate! »

fuzzy math

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2020, 06:16:02 PM »
Don't know where you live and how bad the 'Rona is there, but with it being summer and a likely lull in cases this is the best it might be for a while. My hospital is doing furloughs / pay cuts and has limited regular vacation due to prioritizing getting the furloughs done. So if you have time to take off, take at least a bit, especially if your employer caps time off and you could potentially lose it in the future. Then come back and make your money. Another big question is what unit you work on and what your comfort level is there now that the world is rapidly changing.
Congrats on the news! Don't make any huge decisions right now. You might value financial security more in the coming months knowing that you will be having a baby in winter time with unknown outbreak conditions. If your wife is going to want to stay home you may by default be the person providing all the financial support. We likely won't know how its going to look for the winter until Oct - Nov... Just take it a week or month at a time.

lhamo

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2020, 06:44:35 PM »
What would your base salary be if you went PT?


Murse

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2020, 09:31:27 AM »
What would your base salary be if you went PT?

4452 monthly gross pay. Health insurance would cost around 300$ more per month then currently.
Our expenses currently are around 4K monthly.

MudPuppy

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #22 on: July 01, 2020, 10:16:46 AM »
What state are you in??

erutio

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #23 on: July 01, 2020, 10:53:05 AM »
How generous are your employers about paternity and maternity leave?

lhamo

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #24 on: July 01, 2020, 11:10:52 AM »
How long are your shifts?  Could you ramp back your work hours and start taking 10-20 hours of accrued PTO/week for a trial period -- at least until the end of summer, if not the rest of the year -- and see what your life/your finances look like when you aren't working such a full schedule?  Bank the PTO pay in a separate account during that time period.  Get pre-qualified for a mortgage while you still have the FT salary (but not the FT+ hours) and use some of the time off to house-hunt/do renos if you find a good fixer.  Try the PT lifestyle out a bit BEFORE you have a baby to juggle as well. 

Murse

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #25 on: July 01, 2020, 12:46:13 PM »
How long are your shifts?  Could you ramp back your work hours and start taking 10-20 hours of accrued PTO/week for a trial period -- at least until the end of summer, if not the rest of the year -- and see what your life/your finances look like when you aren't working such a full schedule?  Bank the PTO pay in a separate account during that time period.  Get pre-qualified for a mortgage while you still have the FT salary (but not the FT+ hours) and use some of the time off to house-hunt/do renos if you find a good fixer.  Try the PT lifestyle out a bit BEFORE you have a baby to juggle as well.

Oregon state,
Paternity benefits are just that I can use accrued leave for 6 weeks.

Shifts are 5-8 hours shifts mon-fri. I cannot ramp down my hours without using my PTO.

I am confident I could get extra shifts almost every month. The more I think about this the more I think I can do it, I am just afraid to pull the trigger.

Murse

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #26 on: July 01, 2020, 12:47:38 PM »
What state are you in??
Letís actually call our monthly expenses 4600-4900 due to the price range of houses we are looking at.

MudPuppy

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #27 on: July 01, 2020, 12:51:44 PM »
Ah, west coast nursing pay. Makes more sense.

lhamo

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #28 on: July 01, 2020, 02:08:40 PM »
How long are your shifts?  Could you ramp back your work hours and start taking 10-20 hours of accrued PTO/week for a trial period -- at least until the end of summer, if not the rest of the year -- and see what your life/your finances look like when you aren't working such a full schedule?  Bank the PTO pay in a separate account during that time period.  Get pre-qualified for a mortgage while you still have the FT salary (but not the FT+ hours) and use some of the time off to house-hunt/do renos if you find a good fixer.  Try the PT lifestyle out a bit BEFORE you have a baby to juggle as well.

Oregon state,
Paternity benefits are just that I can use accrued leave for 6 weeks.

Shifts are 5-8 hours shifts mon-fri. I cannot ramp down my hours without using my PTO.

I am confident I could get extra shifts almost every month. The more I think about this the more I think I can do it, I am just afraid to pull the trigger.

Try 4-8 weeks of only working 2-4 days a week, taking some of your PTO.  Maybe start with 4 weeks.  Extend if you don't have a good sense of whether/how it is working for you after that time period.