What to eat? How do you teach your kids?

[Trying2bFrugal]

I was thinking for quite a while and still scratching head. So a beer and question for the great minds. First I am listing my life and then questions

1. We don't store/consume much frozen foods, canned food or bread bought from store
2. Most meals are cooked every day or alternative day
3. We only cook meat 1-2 times a week (chicken, fish or goat, no red meat) and that contribute meat consumption 3-5 meals/week on average.
4. We moved to USA and kid born here.
5. I buy organic fruits/veg where the major portion absorb chemicals otherwise (like broccoli, berries, apples, etc,) and buy regular on Banana, cabbage, watermelon, mango, etc) where the top layer can be removed and consumed.

Where I lived my childhood, we grown own food, had our cow, no chemicals whatsoever and even all cooking oil have been made from the nuts by my parents/relatives or even bought. I have memories on opening coconut, dry it, get to mill to grind and get oil, thats for the year stock. But those are 30 years back in country.  Now in 2024, in USA, those are memories of mine.

When we had discussion on how much of the chemicals used on animals and animals made after genetically modified or fed all GMO crops or craps and the white liquid or so called milk, etc.,

Wife started asking a valid question. What is that we should get or eat or how can we get a good quality or less chemical food? We cant get land and do farming in Michigan (planned to get community farming but seeds. SEEDS, is there anymore native seeds, even on farmer market, hard to find any native seeds). How do we even teach the kids what is good if we cant keep the good things on the plates.

Organic - is not really organic if you go to roots of certification. A non-GMO organic lime, certified by FDA and non-profit didn't had seeds, wtf.
You can have GMO crop grown in fields which is chemically treated but not chemically sprayed could get an organic certification. Sometimes the cost is outrageous. Sometimes, it doesn't make sense.

Right now I am buying organic food from Aldi/Costco/Kroger as they are 3 miles away from home.

I am trying my level best by taking my daughter from her 3 year to plant and get vegetables, took her to Amish county to show how they grow but we would come back to square 1 when we come everyday life. It gets worse if you need to eat out on travels. The less damage food is from Chipotle, restaurants where food is cooked and not de-frozen or with more processed.

If you are living in city, how do you guys take it so far and how do you teach your kids?

[MaybeBabyMustache]

We do have a garden, and live in an area of abundant local produce (northern California) with a long growing season.

That said, we have two full time working parents, I travel for work, and we have two very busy teens. We focus on making generally healthy choices. We are also working around some food allergies & preferences.

We optimize for time spent, nutritional value & overall balance. We'd rather our kids understand 1) how to prepare a meal 2) what makes up a balanced meal 3) cost - both in terms of actual cost, as well as prepping & time spent

What are you trying to optimize for? My grandparents largely lived off of: hunting, locally grown food, and supplemented with infrequent grocery purchases. That worked a lot better when they had one person staying at home full time, & wouldn't work for us.

[Trying2bFrugal]

I get an opposition to processed foods. I'm not sure why you're opposed to freezing and canning.

I'm also wondering (and I might regret asking)... what's the problem with GMOs?

I am not oppose to cancel  food, just used to fresh cooking a lot. We do use, but dont use often, so we dont buy bulk or store much.

GMO - is a subjective one. I used to eat atleast 10 varieties of banana. You can hardly get two banana variety. If I think about chicken and the meds they inject or cows which are made without mating, they dont even let to mate.
 green revolution, white revolution from need to feed mass, turned to how to make money. pest resistant, long lasting, seedless are a big topic with different perspective to reach other. Not sharing gmo on finding variation but once it get modified too much it loses its significance in my opinion.

[the lorax]

Do you have access to any land you could grow food on? are there community gardens you could join?

[Trying2bFrugal]

Do you have access to any land you could grow food on? are there community gardens you could join?

Yes, I hope this year I would build a backyard raised bed and a community garden area (50 sq ft, going with friends). In Michigan's fun weather,  we only get 5 month window to grow veg though

[nereo]

I may regret this, but I’ll dive in anyway…

Full disclosure, my job includes being the lead for organic certification , both for crop production and as a processor (we do both)

First, there is a LOT of false assumptions surrounding what a USDA certified organic actually means.  Organic certification is all about the process of growing and handling the food, not about the product itself.  We make no claims that a particular organic product is healthier than one raised by conventional means, because it’s not possible to evaluate the nutritional outcome from the process of how it is grown or raised. Ultimately the philosophy of organic is centered on the first addressing the health of the soil; the crops which grow from that soil is a secondary consideration.

The metaphor I like to use is around food safety. Imagine a commercial kitchen that subscribes to a very rigorous, third-party audited food safety programme (SQF is one). They are required to keep disinfect equipment with specific cleaners every day, take microbial samples of all food contact surfaces, drains and water supplies, keep logs documenting when cleanings were conducted and who did a post cleaning inspection, and several times a year there is an unannounced audit which reviews both the documentation and the cleaning practices with employee interviews.

These are the gold standard in the food industry, and it’s not required. Critically, it’s all about the process of preparing the food and NOT about the end product. There is zero guarantee that the resulting food will taste better or be better for you than one that is made in a kitchen which “just” follows the rules of the state and local health departments.

So it is with organic.  You must submit to auditing, have a detailed organic handling plan, follow the NOP, and have a ton of documentation on every step. Several times a year we do lot traceability exercises to verify that we can trace every handling point and every input used for every product sold. We also do mass balance exercises to show that what we produce equals what we sell and destroy.

All of these are very good things, but it doesn’t mean that the resulting fruit or meat is necessarily better for you than a conventionally raised product sitting next to it on the shelf. It DOES mean that the minimum standards for that product are much higher. And even then there’s many ways an organic producer can decide to “do better” - from the conditions of its workforce (not addressed at all under the USDA NOP) to its choice of which crops to plant where to its corporate responsibility.

Back to your questions and considerations…. I’m not really sure why you are focused on seeds, except maybe that you view a lack of seeds as somehow an indicator of poor nutrition?  Broadly speaking, plants will either put energy towards growth (getting bigger) or towards reproduction (making seeds). As a farmer you want the former, and most cultivars have been selected to maximize growth and minimize seeds (don’t worry - there are farms who specialize in generating seeds to sell to farms the following year). Depending on the crop the plant can have alternating years or be fed inputs which are higher in nitrogen but lower in phosphate or other key nutrients which favor seed production, or they usenetting to keep out certain pollinators during key flowing windows, or it can simply be from a cultivar which has very low seed output. In any case, I wouldn’t let seed presence deter you as that is a very clear goal and results in more of what we want to eat on the same footprint

You can extend the growing window way past 5 months, even in Michigan. Read up on cold-frames, frost-tolerant crops and simple insulation techniques. Here in northern Maine I can routinely start harvesting fresh produce in early March and keep it going right thru the end of November, despite snow on the ground and a our first hard freeze often in early October.

GMOs are an interesting battleground. No credible studies have shown them to be worse for our health than traditionally raised cultivars (Mendelian selection) - but some have enormous upside, including pest resistance and harvest ability. Personally, I don’t worry about GMOs - I worry about how the food was grown and whether that specific product is good for me or not. It might be a GMO, it might be an heirloom. It might come from an organic certified farm, it might come from a local conventional farm which I know has good management practices.

[Cranky]

Find a Farmers Market. Ours runs through the winter, though it mostly greens and winter squash for several months.

Community garden - we had one when we lived in Ypsilanti, and we grew a LOT. We were broke grad students and that garden was a key part of our finances. We’re now in Wisconsin and have two different community garden plots and again - we grow a lot. I canned a year’s worth of tomatoes this year (and we let the green tomatoes ripen in the garage so I actually had fresh tomatoes well into December), we have plenty of squash left, I have green beans and raspberries in the freezer.

We try to eat pretty seasonally. Local meats are very expensive, so we don’t buy that too often, but we don’t eat too much meat. We bought a winter egg share from a local place, and that’s been great.

[the lorax]

This guy manages to grow a whole heap of chillis in Minneapolis if you need a bit of inspiration!!

https://www.youtube.com/@7PotClub

There are lots of heritage/heirloom seed businesses that you could buy seeds from in the US if you want to do that. Local gardening clubs often have seed libraries. I've been reading up on community gardening initiatives and there seem to be plenty out there. Many also have seed libraries and will be able to provide advice on what grows well locally. You don't need much space and as Nereo said, season extension using cold frames, polytunnels/hoop houses and just starting seeds indoors can be cost-effective.

[SweatingInAR]

Have you read The Omnivore's Dilemma? Your title reminded me of it. You should be able to get it as an ebook from your library.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3109.The_Omnivore_s_Dilemma

Beyond that, have you looked into joining a CSA (Community Supported Agriculture)? It generally works as a subscription to a local farm where they give you a weekly box of whatever is in season. Years ago, I remember some offering that you could come and work at the farm to cover some of the monetary cost. It sounded like a neat way to connect to your food and see how it all works.

[StarBright]

Not sure how far north in Michigan you are, but I'm right at the Ohio/Michigan border.

We do a community garden and manage to stretch our season to about 7 - 8  months. We do greens in a cold frame starting in march and sometimes cold frame again in November. And by cold frame I mean hula hoops that I've cut in half w/ some cover material.  It is very hit or miss but we do manage fresh heirloom veggies for a nice chunk of the year.

I would say look for community gardens and seed swaps in your area. That is where I have really learned about growing in my local climate. The veggies I grow now are very different than what I grew when I lived in the southern US but I've gotten the hang of it.

The other place I've had good luck is my county parks district. They often do local plant sales that focus on natives that are appropriate for the area and the people that run the sale tend to be a fount of knowledge about where to get good veggie seeds.

Good luck!

[lhamo]

These authors (both professors at the University of Washington) have a great series of books on soil and food health that you might find helpful/inspirational:

https://www.dig2grow.com/

It is actually very easy to find free heirloom and open pollinated seeds.  Here is one place you can start in Michigan:

https://homesteadersofmi.com/michigan-seed-swap/


I live in a milder climate than you, but this book by Eliot Coleman transformed my gardening practice -- his techniques will allow you to have access to fresh veg year round if you have the space/patience to implement them:

https://www.chelseagreen.com/product/the-winter-harvest-handbook/

For me a key thing was learning that plants basically go dormant when the amount of daylight drops below 10 hours.  At my latitude that is roughly from October 20-Feb 20.  So I make sure to start any crops I want to harvest from under cover mid-winter so that they are mostly mature by late October.  Anything smaller I do not touch until they start growing again in late February.  If I keep things covered (especially with a double layer, like fleece coverage of crops that are in a greenhouse or under a polytunnel) I can harvest hardy lettuces and all types of other hardy greens like kale all winter long.  But I'm in zone 8B which makes things easier.

I typically spend less than $200/season on my gardening efforts and harvest hundreds of pounds of food and tons of cut flowers  Most of my money goes toward seed starting mix, potting soil (for containers, but I also recycle a lot) and drip irrigation supplies.  I get a LOT of stuff for free.  I find it to be a fun part of gardening to see what I can do with recycled and otherwise scavanged materials. 

[midweststache]

I'm going to focus on the latter half of this question, i.e. "How do you teach your kids."

I also live in a mostly urban area. We have a yard, but I have a black thumb so we don't really grow much. We tried broccoli this year and spent $8 and MONTHS of care to get what would've cost us less than $1 at the grocery store. I chalked it up to a learning experience for the kiddos (now 4 and 7).

1. We have a kids' book called Kalamata's Kitchen which includes the Taste Bud Pledge: "I promise to keep my mind open and my fork ready, to try each new food at least two times and share what's on my plate when someone doesn't have enough." This has been wildly helpful for getting my eaters to try new things, or re-try foods that aren't their favorite.
2. We involve the kids in meal planning and grocery shopping, including visiting the farmer's market when its in season. We talk about what we eat, and why; we narrativize these trips, including from a financial perspective ("Oh, broccoli is on sale this week!") and a time perspective ("Wednesday is busy, so we're going to do mezze that night!"). We are meat eaters, but you could incorporate low- or no-meat conversations into these narratives as well.
3. The library is your friend here: there are tons of kid books on where food - not just plants, but meat, dairy, grains, etc. - come from. Your library or parks district may have programming relevant as well; our library does, as does the local Ecology Center. Depending on your locale, you may be able to visit local farms, orchards, etc. (Who doesn't love an apple orchard or pumpkin patch in the fall!?)
4. If you can't involve your kid in growing due to locale, involve them in cooking! Kids can crack, stir, mix and sort with the best of them. I don't know that ours are ready for knife skills yet, but this is another place where just talking to them - ours sometimes just sit in the kitchen and watch what we're doing - can be wildly informative. If you have a garden, you can involve them in that.

[Cranky]

I'm going to focus on the latter half of this question, i.e. "How do you teach your kids."

I also live in a mostly urban area. We have a yard, but I have a black thumb so we don't really grow much. We tried broccoli this year and spent $8 and MONTHS of care to get what would've cost us less than $1 at the grocery store. I chalked it up to a learning experience for the kiddos (now 4 and 7).

1. We have a kids' book called Kalamata's Kitchen which includes the Taste Bud Pledge: "I promise to keep my mind open and my fork ready, to try each new food at least two times and share what's on my plate when someone doesn't have enough." This has been wildly helpful for getting my eaters to try new things, or re-try foods that aren't their favorite.
2. We involve the kids in meal planning and grocery shopping, including visiting the farmer's market when its in season. We talk about what we eat, and why; we narrativize these trips, including from a financial perspective ("Oh, broccoli is on sale this week!") and a time perspective ("Wednesday is busy, so we're going to do mezze that night!"). We are meat eaters, but you could incorporate low- or no-meat conversations into these narratives as well.
3. The library is your friend here: there are tons of kid books on where food - not just plants, but meat, dairy, grains, etc. - come from. Your library or parks district may have programming relevant as well; our library does, as does the local Ecology Center. Depending on your locale, you may be able to visit local farms, orchards, etc. (Who doesn't love an apple orchard or pumpkin patch in the fall!?)
4. If you can't involve your kid in growing due to locale, involve them in cooking! Kids can crack, stir, mix and sort with the best of them. I don't know that ours are ready for knife skills yet, but this is another place where just talking to them - ours sometimes just sit in the kitchen and watch what we're doing - can be wildly informative. If you have a garden, you can involve them in that.

Try broccoli again! It’s a bit tricky to find the right spot and the right variety but I usually get months worth with just a couple of plants.

[aloevera1]

I don't have kids but I can relate to the feeling of knowing how food was grown/made back from the childhood. I find general population in North America is really disconnected from the food production. It's very industrial, opaque and impersonal here while I remember the amount of effort and care that goes into growing a sack of potatoes.

I bridge the gap for myself (and hopefully for future kids if I have them) by staying as close as possible to the rule of "if I can't pronounce it, I don't eat it". Basically, this means the following:

1) Buying ingredients separately and making something at home. E.g. buy a chicken and marinate yourself instead of buying premarinated. Avoid all sorts of processed foods, frozen foods and foods with weird ingredients that look like chemical equation.

2) Canning and preserving myself. It's a lot of fun to see a transformation of buckets of apples from my tree into varieties of different jams and sauces!

3) Avoiding middle man. I don't particularly love farmers' markets as they have became too cutesy but I do go to a meat processing plant to get meat.

4) Growing my own food. A small garden and a couple of fruit trees can provide plenty if you choose your crops wisely. Turn it into a fun hobby! Also, I am pretty sure I am significantly more North than you are and gardening can definitely be done here. Look for varieties with shorter maturity time, local varieties, time the planting for the maximum food production, etc.

Good luck.

[OtherJen]

Do you have access to any land you could grow food on? are there community gardens you could join?

Yes, I hope this year I would build a backyard raised bed and a community garden area (50 sq ft, going with friends). In Michigan's fun weather,  we only get 5 month window to grow veg though

Yes, but this is where freezing and canning (and even dehydrating) are handy. We could barely keep up with our three tomato plants and small raised-bed vegetable garden last July–September. We were still picking cherry tomatoes, kale, sage, thyme, and bell, jalapeño, poblano, and shishito peppers until early November. I finally cut the last ripening tomatoes off the vines and let them finish in paper bags in the kitchen once the nights started getting really chilly. We still have grated zucchini, basil pesto, and peppers in our freezer and various jars of pickled cucumbers, peppers, and other veg and a big bag of dried chili peppers in our pantry.

It sounds like you're not yet used to a cold-winter climate—preserving the harvest is how people here have managed their food supplies for year-round use for millennia. Gardening and canning are such great skills to teach your kids, and they'll probably have fun coming up with things to grow and make. Someone else mentioned apples—we're lucky enough to live in a top fruit-growing state, and fruits like apples, peaches, cherries, and blueberries make great jams, sauces, and preserves, especially if you go to the farm or orchard and pick your own (something I loved doing as a child).