Author Topic: Should we pay $2k for cable internet?  (Read 8388 times)

Rural

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Should we pay $2k for cable internet?
« on: July 22, 2017, 07:42:37 AM »
Background : extremely rural, house way off the road on our property. Previously our only option for Internet service has been DSL, and the signal is poor - we usually get less than 1Mbps on download. When we finished the house we could not get cable for any price because of the location. Satellite is an option but has data caps, cellular is not an option because there's very little signal and no 3G, let alone 4G.

We have just discovered we can now get cable (from Spectrum), but we've been quoted ~$1800 to install a line. But I'm teaching two courses online this fall and starting another online masters degree, plus renting a room and thus adding a person with devices (assuming the person doesn't back out over the internet situation, that is). The best the current DSL can do is 1.5 Mbps on download, and cable would be 60 Mbps for about the same monthly price (assuming it works, of course).


Oh, and we won't exactly be here full time - I'll be here three days a week for work plus any weekends my  husband can come home from his new grad school two hours away (he hopes most).


We have the money, but for context our usual monthly spending is under $2500.


What would you do?

BlueMR2

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Re: Should we pay $2k for cable internet?
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2017, 08:22:40 AM »
If the monthly was really going to be (and stay) the same and I had the cash laying around for the install, I would do it.  I don't mind spending money that I have, as long as it's not going to increase my ongoing expenses.

Clean Shaven

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Re: Should we pay $2k for cable internet?
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2017, 08:24:37 AM »
I'd do it, since I'm in sort of the same situation. I intend to stay in my house a long while, so it seems reasonable to me.

I can only get DSL (but at the nominal 6mbps speed mine maxes at, it's faster than yours). Charter is our local cable provider, and they said they can install it at my house - for $16,000! (not a typo)

I passed on that one.

You might also check if you have any antenna-based internet options. There are a couple locally for me, which would be a little faster, but cost around $100/month. I'm sticking with DSL for now.

maizefolk

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Re: Should we pay $2k for cable internet?
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2017, 09:28:06 AM »
Unless you expect optical fiber internet to become available in your region soon, I'd bite the bullet and pay for the install.

Workably fast internet will help with getting and keeping tenants in your extra room, it sounds like it'll help you both earn money and gain educational credentials, and personally I find workable internet tends to encourage me to stay home more often in the evenings which helps me avoid silly spending.-

Rural

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Re: Should we pay $2k for cable internet?
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2017, 10:06:09 AM »
BlueMR2: It would be the same for a year, then go up $20 a month, so no, it won't stay the same. But I can't imagine what we have being any use at all in another year, so there's that. I may be paying higher for cable or paying nothing at all since there's no point paying for useless.


Clean Shaven: Charter is ours, too; they've just changed the name on the Internet part (I think there was a merger). When we built the house, they told us they couldn't do it for any price, so this is better, I suppose. What antenna-based options are you talking about? Things like Hughesnet sattelite or something different?


Maizeman: fiber? Hah. May never be available here. I expect it will beam from the sky all around the globe before that.


Another thought: do I wait to see what happens with net neutrality? The whole idea of internet access may be a lot less useful in a few months.

Mgmny

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Re: Should we pay $2k for cable internet?
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2017, 04:42:23 PM »
Check your county and township for grants to help cover this. That happened to my in laws, and they got almost all of it for free from the county.

Rural

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Re: Should we pay $2k for cable internet?
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2017, 07:17:33 PM »
Check your county and township for grants to help cover this. That happened to my in laws, and they got almost all of it for free from the county.


Looks like we might qualify for a loan under the farm bill because of my business, but no grants. Thanks for the idea. I don't think I'd have felt comfortable getting a grant, anyway. I don't need one; I just don't much want to pay that much. And I'd feel like I was getting an unfair advantage.


Don't need a loan, either. I just have to decide if I want it enough to pay that much. Wonder how long it would take me to break even in saved trips to the public library or McDonalds for wifi? :-)

Feivel2000

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Re: Should we pay $2k for cable internet?
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2017, 12:03:17 AM »


Another thought: do I wait to see what happens with net neutrality? The whole idea of internet access may be a lot less useful in a few months.

What strange conspiracy theory infested news are you getting? They won't limit the use of high speed internet to advertisements and streaming the Trump podcast.


alsoknownasDean

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Re: Should we pay $2k for cable internet?
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2017, 05:24:59 AM »
Is that cellular signal on the handset, or using an antenna on a mast pointing at the nearest tower? Plenty of rural folks here get their internet access through a 3G/4G modem connected to a yagi antenna on a mast.

With the $1800 spend, would it provide added utility? Would it enable you to earn extra income to offset the cost? Would better internet access make you happier in any way?

AlanStache

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Re: Should we pay $2k for cable internet?
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2017, 07:00:04 AM »
What would the differential be with the room you are looking to rent?  The pool of people willing to rent an internet free room is probably smaller than those who would want internet.  Did you budget for this when you moved? 

Rural

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Re: Should we pay $2k for cable internet?
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2017, 07:40:16 AM »
Feivel: No conspiracy theory needed. If broadband providers are allowed, they will throttle video that's not from their partners. That's likely to affect entertainment (Netflix) and, more importantly, would almost certainly affect the video component of online courses I teach and take, none of which are hosted at one of the major video providers. For reference, Hughesnet now throttles to 1-3 Mbps for subscribers who've reached their monthly data cap. At that speed I'd not be appreciably better off than I am now, so why would I spend so much?




Rural

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Re: Should we pay $2k for cable internet?
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2017, 07:53:01 AM »
Is that cellular signal on the handset, or using an antenna on a mast pointing at the nearest tower? Plenty of rural folks here get their internet access through a 3G/4G modem connected to a yagi antenna on a mast.

With the $1800 spend, would it provide added utility? Would it enable you to earn extra income to offset the cost? Would better internet access make you happier in any way?


That's cellular at the handset, indoor or out. AT&T does show 4GLTE here on their coverage map, though nothing just a half mile away. There might be some signal up there somewhere, but I've found in the past that the cell companies are bad with mountains. If they say they have nothing, you can believe them, but if they say they have something, well, maybe.


But for me the bigger issue is monthly data caps. AT&T offers two plans, capped at 25G or 50G a month. I can control my use with the classes I teach and with my own entertainment. I can't control the data requirements of the classes I take or that of a roommate. So I'm very reluctant to sign up for anything with a data cap while I still have functioning service without. This is why I'm not going to satellite service, actually.


On the extra income: yes, it probably would allow that. I could teach a class or two online next summer, and we'll be here some of the time. But It's possible I'd be able to do that with the DSL we have now. The day is coming when the DSL will simply not do what I need it to (and I am starting to get times out of some sites now) but the day is not quite yet here.


Happier, though? Oh, hell, yes.

ketchup

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Re: Should we pay $2k for cable internet?
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2017, 08:04:13 AM »
I'd probably do it.  That's a huge jump in speed, and it sounds like you would fully utilize it.  The same monthly cost as your current DSL is a nice plus.

Clean Shaven

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Re: Should we pay $2k for cable internet?
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2017, 08:24:53 AM »
Is that cellular signal on the handset, or using an antenna on a mast pointing at the nearest tower? Plenty of rural folks here get their internet access through a 3G/4G modem connected to a yagi antenna on a mast.

With the $1800 spend, would it provide added utility? Would it enable you to earn extra income to offset the cost? Would better internet access make you happier in any way?
This is the sort of antenna based internet alternative that's available locally for me. I don't know what the technical details are, but a customer mounts something that looks like a TV antenna on their house, and it picks up a local signal.

undercover

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Re: Should we pay $2k for cable internet?
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2017, 08:34:20 AM »
Charter currently has no data cap.

The answer is simple. Do you need increased reliability, speed, and data usage? If yes, and you can afford $1,800, then it's a no brainer. If you don't know the answer about how much your roommate will use, then again, the answer is simple. Let them move in and then see how it goes.

Personally, to me that sounds super cheap compared to most rural households not even being within the realm of being able to pay the cable company to run a line.

Cassie

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Re: Should we pay $2k for cable internet?
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2017, 11:58:10 AM »
I teach an online class so need it and so do you if you are teaching 2 classes, etc. This is a time when it makes sense to spend the $.

Hotstreak

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Re: Should we pay $2k for cable internet?
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2017, 12:35:21 PM »
Rural - would they be running line down your driveway to an existing network at the street, or would they need to run it further than that?  If there's a long run, see if your neighbors also want cable, and you can all split the cost of running it down the road.

Rural

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Re: Should we pay $2k for cable internet?
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2017, 12:53:57 PM »
Rural - would they be running line down your driveway to an existing network at the street, or would they need to run it further than that?  If there's a long run, see if your neighbors also want cable, and you can all split the cost of running it down the road.


Down the driveway to existing line at the street. We had cable internet on this property when we lived in an old mobile home near the public road. But that's a quarter of a mile away.


Of course this all means the driveway will be torn up again by the trench. Think I'll tell them the power goes up the ditch and they have to do the same with cable. I will not consent to cutting trees to put in an arial line; I would not do that even to get electricity when we were building (we'd have gone off grid instead). Not that a cable company would install poles even if I allowed it; they run on power poles, which we don't have since the power is buried.


Cassie: Yes, I teach online most semesters, but this fall will be the first time two of them are online (well, first time in a lot of years, anyway). And the master's I'm doing online is computer science, so there may be real demands placed on it.


I think we're leaning toward it, everyone.

Lookilu

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Re: Should we pay $2k for cable internet?
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2017, 01:02:42 PM »
I teach an online class so need it and so do you if you are teaching 2 classes, etc. This is a time when it makes sense to spend the $.

^^This.^^ I also teach online and fast reliable internet is a necessity. The convenience is a big plus.

Rural

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Re: Should we pay $2k for cable internet?
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2017, 05:01:02 AM »
What would the differential be with the room you are looking to rent?  The pool of people willing to rent an internet free room is probably smaller than those who would want internet.  Did you budget for this when you moved?
I can't know for sure about renting the room, of course. We do have Internet, also, but it will not support gaming, for example. One screen video such as Netflix in low res with a few pauses to buffer, but no one else can do anything while it's running. So I imagine it would help, but I can't know for sure.We built this house in 2010-2013 roughly. We did budget for utilities, but if we look at the line items carefully, I suppose we probably spent the budget for this getting power up here - that was $1800, too. I've more or less considered the building fund for the interior "closed" for the last several years, I guess, with a few exceptions that are unfinished. But I don't know that it's relevant - houses do have costs, and it's been long enough now to expect some. But this one is optional, that's what's making me hesitate, I guess.

Rural

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Re: Should we pay $2k for cable internet?
« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2017, 05:06:24 AM »
I teach an online class so need it and so do you if you are teaching 2 classes, etc. This is a time when it makes sense to spend the $.

^^This.^^ I also teach online and fast reliable internet is a necessity. The convenience is a big plus.


I think you guys are right. I've been teaching online for a little over 20 years (anyone else remember courses via Gopher and a private Usenet group?), and I think I've not been fully conscious of how much I have gradually shifted to making sure I take care of most things on campus so that I only have to monitor communications at night and on weekends.

Mgmny

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Re: Should we pay $2k for cable internet?
« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2017, 05:28:36 AM »
Wait.... If you already have the hookups at a different spot on your property, couldn't you make this a DIY?? Rent a trencher and buy a quarter mile of cable and you should be set!

valsecito

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Re: Should we pay $2k for cable internet?
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2017, 10:57:40 AM »
At the very least, pull fiber from your home to the spot where you have the cable coming in together with whatever copper being laid. Fiber has become really really cheap, and it's so much more future proof.

If I'd be you, I'd DIY this. Keep the existing caable drop, do fiber from there.

yachi

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Re: Should we pay $2k for cable internet?
« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2017, 12:36:12 PM »
I would DIY it with a trencher down the side of the driveway, bury 2 or 3 3/4" or 1" PVC conduits, put copper cable inside one and rope inside the others.  If you have the conduit installed, you can always pull fiber through it later. Alternatively, you could put the cable in a conduit laid just on top of the ground through the woods.  That should last maybe 5 years or more.
Are you sure you didn't run any extra empty conduits next to the power ones?  Do you have telephone ones you aren't using anymore?

yachi

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Re: Should we pay $2k for cable internet?
« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2017, 12:42:23 PM »
Better solution:
Run the cable to the same place you had it for the trailer, keep you cable modem and router there.  If you don't have power there, install a small solar system.  Beam the wifi signal to a receiver mounted at your house:  This one goes up to 4 miles: https://www.cdw.com/shop/products/EnGenius-EnStation-2-wireless-bridge/3606919.aspx?cm_cat=GoogleBase&cm_ite=3606919&cm_pla=NA-NA-ENG_WI&cm_ven=acquirgy&ef_id=WId-HwAAAHunnIG7:20170724183926:s&gclid=CjwKCAjwtdbLBRALEiwAm8pA5W5e8OGMS4wWAXFH1evWtYkiZNMBAnfvDDgjxCcR9Z4GaJXlSlQpKxoChRAQAvD_BwE&s_kwcid=AL!4223!3!198553132239!!!g!324076655458!

ketchup

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Re: Should we pay $2k for cable internet?
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2017, 01:08:58 PM »
Better solution:
Run the cable to the same place you had it for the trailer, keep you cable modem and router there.  If you don't have power there, install a small solar system.  Beam the wifi signal to a receiver mounted at your house:  This one goes up to 4 miles: https://www.cdw.com/shop/products/EnGenius-EnStation-2-wireless-bridge/3606919.aspx?cm_cat=GoogleBase&cm_ite=3606919&cm_pla=NA-NA-ENG_WI&cm_ven=acquirgy&ef_id=WId-HwAAAHunnIG7:20170724183926:s&gclid=CjwKCAjwtdbLBRALEiwAm8pA5W5e8OGMS4wWAXFH1evWtYkiZNMBAnfvDDgjxCcR9Z4GaJXlSlQpKxoChRAQAvD_BwE&s_kwcid=AL!4223!3!198553132239!!!g!324076655458!
I would not go wireless if you decide to go the DIY route.  I don't know much about running fiber or conduits, but I would not want to rely on quarter-mile-range Wifi all the time, especially if you're doing important time-sensitive things like online teaching.  If you were just derping around on reddit or watching Netflix all day, it wouldn't be nearly as big a deal, but for real work, you'll want the reliability of having it hardwired.

I work in IT and a saying my boss and I have is "Everyone likes wireless until they have to use it."

maizefolk

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Re: Should we pay $2k for cable internet?
« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2017, 03:22:53 PM »
What ketchup said. Do not use long distance wireless links without a wired backup for anything mission critical. Really.

Rural

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Re: Should we pay $2k for cable internet?
« Reply #27 on: July 25, 2017, 05:39:30 AM »
Wireless is not an option, guys, no worries. There's a ridge in the way.


It's too far for coax as well, or so we were told by both the cable co,pony and separately by an engineer friend whose job is getting Internet to fairly remote factories.. Fiber is something we'd considered (and we'd trench it in along the water line, which doesn't run up the driveway and wouldn't cause erosion there). Our friend is willing to consult in it and pointed us to info and products already.


But. From the rough plan we worked out with engineer friend: We'd have to install a shed or something to shelter it all. The mobile home is no longer stable. We'd have to deal with fairly regular break-ins to the shed based on prior break-ins and car stripping down there. We'd have to install solar panels, wire, and converter; there's no power. We'd have to buy the fiber and the conduit (which, yes, would probably be PVC, so pretty cheap) and the converters at both ends to go from copper to fiber and back again. Because the site, and the pole where the cable runs, is on a steep north slope, we'd have to mount the panel(s) on probably a 50-foot pole to get any light on them. If we went back to grid tied power instead, we'd have to reactivate the account down there and pay another monthly base charge or else pay for ~ 900 feet of buried power line from our current transformer at the top of the hill.


We've only done back of the envelope math on this, but the quick and dirty calculations suggested all this would be more expensive than paying for the cable line, maybe much more expensive.

Rural

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Re: Should we pay $2k for cable internet?
« Reply #28 on: July 25, 2017, 05:43:40 AM »
I would DIY it with a trencher down the side of the driveway, bury 2 or 3 3/4" or 1" PVC conduits, put copper cable inside one and rope inside the others.  If you have the conduit installed, you can always pull fiber through it later. Alternatively, you could put the cable in a conduit laid just on top of the ground through the woods.  That should last maybe 5 years or more.
Are you sure you didn't run any extra empty conduits next to the power ones?  Do you have telephone ones you aren't using anymore?


This might be genius. The telephone conduit is right there. It doesn't go near the old drop site for cable service, but I wonder if the cable company could use it. (Could, yes. I wonder if they would.) It doesn't come all the way to the house, though. Hmm.

Cadman

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Re: Should we pay $2k for cable internet?
« Reply #29 on: July 25, 2017, 07:17:29 AM »
Rural, can you get line of sight if you place antennas or units on poles? We had a similar problem, high speed internet at the road and we were a half mile away. We ended up installing a pair of Ubiquiti NanoStations (good for 15km range). Both units are 'power over ethernet' but you'd need some form of power at the road for it and your cable modem.

I was going to put in a pole with a sealed enclosure at the base, a 12v battery and a solar panel but the utility company relented as they didn't want to have to trench under the blacktop to get their fiber to my property, so they bought the Ubiquiti pair and put one on their existing pole across the road, the other goes in a second story window at least half a mile away. Netflix streams as though we have a direct connection, and the only downtime was due to a failed transceiver 2 years ago (the inside one, of all things).

 https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833664013

Edit: Okay, I see you addressed some of this above. Too bad about the situation!
« Last Edit: July 25, 2017, 07:19:47 AM by Cadman »

Rural

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Re: Should we pay $2k for cable internet?
« Reply #30 on: July 25, 2017, 10:15:38 AM »
Rural, can you get line of sight if you place antennas or units on poles? We had a similar problem, high speed internet at the road and we were a half mile away. We ended up installing a pair of Ubiquiti NanoStations (good for 15km range). Both units are 'power over ethernet' but you'd need some form of power at the road for it and your cable modem.

I was going to put in a pole with a sealed enclosure at the base, a 12v battery and a solar panel but the utility company relented as they didn't want to have to trench under the blacktop to get their fiber to my property, so they bought the Ubiquiti pair and put one on their existing pole across the road, the other goes in a second story window at least half a mile away. Netflix streams as though we have a direct connection, and the only downtime was due to a failed transceiver 2 years ago (the inside one, of all things).

 https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833664013

Edit: Okay, I see you addressed some of this above. Too bad about the situation!


That sounds very cool, but it's a no go here - line of sight would require a 300-foot tower, more really given the forest. We did buy a mountain on purpose - guess I'd better keep reminding myself of that. :)


On a brighter note, my advisor for the new online degree thinks I'll be able to do the coursework fine over 1.5 Mbps (which is our max), so I may see how it goes for a bit first. I'll tell this prospective renter it's an option if things don't work, I suppose.

JoJo

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Re: Should we pay $2k for cable internet?
« Reply #31 on: July 26, 2017, 05:54:01 PM »
Since it's needed for the teaching, anyway it can be written off on taxes?

Rural

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Re: Should we pay $2k for cable internet?
« Reply #32 on: July 26, 2017, 06:36:29 PM »
No, I'm a W-2 employee and my home office is for my convenience, not the university's. That means no home office expenses and I can't depreciate it as a business expense since I no longer have business income to speak of. I guess I could take on some limited work this year and get a business loss to carry over, but I don't know that I really want to take on the audit risk for a loss I may not get to use (if I continue not really having time for the business, which seems likely with a new graduate program).

AlanStache

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Re: Should we pay $2k for cable internet?
« Reply #33 on: July 26, 2017, 07:15:13 PM »
or tax credit for required education expense for your job?
https://www.irs.gov/uac/tax-benefits-for-education-information-center

Rural

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Re: Should we pay $2k for cable internet?
« Reply #34 on: July 26, 2017, 08:43:32 PM »
or tax credit for required education expense for your job?
https://www.irs.gov/uac/tax-benefits-for-education-information-center


Didn't know about that - I might qualify, not under the "required by employer" (it isn't) but under "Maintain or improve skills." But we'd have to itemize for the year. With no mortgage and very low taxes, I think we'll be better served to use the standard deduction; we have for quite a few years now. But of course I can't be sure until the year's out, so thanks for pointing it out. I'll run the numbers both ways after year's end if we go for the cable.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 08:47:33 PM by Rural »

Paul der Krake

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Re: Should we pay $2k for cable internet?
« Reply #35 on: July 26, 2017, 08:44:58 PM »
I would give them a counter-offer just to see if they bite. And then pay it no matter how much it costs.

Aint nobody got time for 1 Mbps.

Rural

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Re: Should we pay $2k for cable internet?
« Reply #36 on: July 26, 2017, 08:52:35 PM »
I would give them a counter-offer just to see if they bite. And then pay it no matter how much it costs.

Aint nobody got time for 1 Mbps.


I have a call in to the construction guy now to see what happens if we do the trench and to talk about that telephone conduit. A sales guy called from the company today to try to talk me into it again. He was all suggesting I get neighbors to go for cost sharing, seemed very disappointed to hear there are no neighbors.


I've made time for 1Mbps (on a good day) for a lot of years now. I may be in "pay what it costs" territory now. If only I could be sure I'd be able to drive to my house afterward, I think I would.

Goldielocks

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Re: Should we pay $2k for cable internet?
« Reply #37 on: July 27, 2017, 07:14:00 AM »
Yes.  Do it.  Your home value will also increase, with better internet in a rural location, compared to others.

Clean Shaven

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Re: Should we pay $2k for cable internet?
« Reply #38 on: July 27, 2017, 07:29:55 AM »
If you decide to go with the installation, is the start point (the place where the cable is available now) also somewhere that other utilities are available, or at least a lot closer? Would it make sense to have the contractor install the cable in a slightly larger conduit or pipe, so you could fish another cable or fiber optic line through it in the future?

Rural

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Re: Should we pay $2k for cable internet?
« Reply #39 on: July 27, 2017, 09:10:36 AM »
You have no neighbors?  How many acres do you own?


We only have 25 acres, but we're toward the back, which is the trouble with the cable. It's available on the edge of our property that adjoins a public road, but it's a quarter mile to the house from there. The other side is national forest. There is one neighbor relatively nearby who is likely in the same situation, but we wouldn't be able to share a line - that house is as far away as the road is. Basically, our phone and power are both public-road level all the way to the house, and this would have to be the same. We paid a similar amount to get electricity up here. Phone (for DSL) was a free install for reasons I can't fathom.


Clean Shaven: yes, it would start with the power pole, which is also where the phone line comes in. That's a good idea about conduit big enough for fiber later on; I'll ask.


Goldielocks: we don't much care about value, since this is our retirement dream home, but usability is a real issue.