Author Topic: How do you socialize with people of different income levels?  (Read 1446 times)

Poundwise

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How do you socialize with people of different income levels?
« on: March 08, 2024, 07:27:21 AM »
Thanks to decades of Mustachian living, I'm living in comfortable semiretirement and by most standards, I'm rich.

However we live in an area with a lot of income diversity and as such we have friends who are probably centimillionaires, as well as friends who are a few dollars a month away from homelessness.

I'm kind of getting whiplash. On the one hand, our kids' friends' families frequently invite them to their other homes on Martha's Vineyard and ski houses in VT and CO. One even wanted to take my son with them on tours of India and Africa to be company for their son (for various reasons we had to decline so they took another kid.) But we're not able to do much in return as we're car camping sort of people, though we do go on an airplane/Airbnb type trip once every few years.

The reciprocity on dining out with rich people is also difficult to negotiate. It seems to me that to them, meals costing hundreds of dollars are as inconsequential as a cup of coffee to me, so some think nothing of paying for us time and time again, which embarrasses me.  Or, on the other hand, I've ended up paying hundreds of dollars on meals for other rich friends, but since the money meant nothing to them they didn't offer to split. These friendships tend to start out strong but they die away over time, possibly because we aren't able to initiate get-togethers.

On the other hand, I have some poor friends (mentally ill and living in public housing, or undocumented and working as housecleaners, etc.) I've helped them here and there, once paying  three months' back rent for the family of one son's friend so they didn't get evicted, sharing resources and finding scholarships, dropping off some groceries if I went to Costco, treating them to a lunch if they will let me.  It's sometimes hard to share my life with them as a friend because my concerns are so inconsequential compared to theirs.

Sometimes I feel like I'm hiding how poor I am to one set, and how rich I am to another set. In an ideal world, maybe I should be bringing these two worlds together.  I'm not sure how though.  BBQ in my (small) back yard? I think I could end up embarrassing/weirding out people by doing that. Or I could stick with people at my own level, but that's kind of small thinking. It's also a little hard to explain how we socialize to the kids, without pointing out the presumed income level of their friends explicitly.

Do you have friendships like these and how do you maintain them?

MaybeBabyMustache

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Re: How do you socialize with people of different income levels?
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2024, 08:23:14 AM »
We have a range of income levels across friends, although it sound like less extreme on both sides. I typically meet up with friends for workouts (free hikes, gym classes, a run, etc), which works really well, because no cost involved. Meeting up for coffee is also very common, and would allow you to "treat" the other person, without it feeling like a big expenditure either way.

We also have people over for dinner more often than we go out & treat, unless we're talking about my family, in which case, we always treat & my family "pays us back" in other ways, such as watching our kids when we travel, etc.

I'm not a person who enjoys doing lots of social things in large groups, so bringing all of my friends together isn't really something I consider regularly, unless it's for a big event. I really prefer one on one outings, which reduces the friction on some of the things you've described.

Metalcat

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Re: How do you socialize with people of different income levels?
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2024, 08:27:55 AM »
My friends and family have the exact same wealth range and I don't find I have issues navigating anywhere along the range.

For ultra wealthy friends, I don't give things much thought. I'm not into many of their spendy activities, so we tend to socialize more on my terms. If they do want to pay for me to do something with them, I just let them.

They are very, very cautious about being used for their money, but because I'm very clear that I'm really not interested in their spendy stuff, it's very transparent that I'm not particularly interested in them for their wealth. I also don't feel indebted to them when they pay for things, it also doesn't happen often, but when it does, I think nothing of reciprocity.

I also generally don't dine out with rich people because I don't like dining out. So if that's the main way they socialize, then we're not likely to hang out a whole ton because I don't like friendships based on eating at restaurants. No judgment to those who do, it's just not the kind of friendship that I prefer.

I am friends with a lot of folks who are restaurant socializers, but with me they hang out and have tea, or go out to a park, or engage in hobbies, etc.

For folks with serious financial troubles, the key is not to compare them to yourself. Your situation has no bearing on theirs. As their friend, your job is just to care compassionately about their struggles and offer whatever support makes sense.

I have very serious and often terrifying health issues, it would piss me off if my able-bodied friends struggled to hear about my health issues just because they are able-bodied.

Absolutely everyone has struggles in life, some are financial, some are health, some are professional, some are interpersonal, some are mental health, etc, etc. We all have serious shit to contend with and friends care about what each other are contending with. That's pretty much the job description of being a friend.

As for mixing friends, what would be the purpose? I don't mix friends unless I think individuals will specifically get along.

Also, lastly, I would just drop the thinking of people at "levels." No matter what wealth a person has, people are so complex that there are endless angles through which you can view similarity and difference.

For example, I'm a dual licensed professional and in each profession I have TONS in common with my colleagues, including education, career, earning potential, etc. And yet I feel I have very little in common with the vast majority of my colleagues.

I feel most at ease with folks in a rural fishing village in very remote location that I had never even visited before middle age, in a highly insular community that I wasn't raised in, where almost no one has a similar background to me education-wise or professionally.

So why do I feel more comfortable with folks I have virtually nothing "in common" with?

Because most things that we socially categorize as significant commonalities are actually very, very superficial characteristics to connect over.

I tend to feel a commonality with folks who have really healthy and supportive marriages, have a deep appreciation for nature, who live more in the present, who value connection and community, who are generous with their compassion, and who are funny as hell.

Those characteristics can come in any range of income/wealth, education, profession, location, cultural background, etc.

It just so happens that those traits are much more common in this weird-ass remote community where I bought an investment property.

So perhaps send some time reflecting on what connects you with people beyond the extremely superficial aspect of their wealth.

FTR, I'm a therapist and I spend my days talking to people about themselves and once you dip below the broad social strokes, people fall into far more interesting categories.

Poundwise

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Re: How do you socialize with people of different income levels?
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2024, 09:43:46 AM »
Thanks for the very thoughtful replies, @Metalcat and @MaybeBabyMustache!

With respect to my ultrarich friends, it sounds like I should try making a few daytime, outdoors or coffee/dessert types invites, and maybe decline more of the dinner invitations.   And I guess I should continue to initiate the same with my poor friends even though I sometimes feel concerned that I'm the one doing all the outreach.

It's so interesting to see the parallels! For instance, transportation is a barrier too... we can't truly be part of the rich friends set, because they learn that we can't/don't fly here and there to play.  On the other hand, even if I invite some of my poor friends out, I have to go to them or pick them up, because travel is so difficult for them.

Quote
Also, lastly, I would just drop the thinking of people at "levels." No matter what wealth a person has, people are so complex that there are endless angles through which you can view similarity and difference.

The "levels" come up because they impose logistical inequalities which make it harder to sustain connections. I don't require that my friends be like me, or be wise, or have it together, I can meet them where they are, and I have a broad range of interests. Typically we connect over kids or community work and find we converse easily. But I'm seeing that I may have to let go of my assumption that friends share equally in invitations/expenses. I also have to intentionally seek out some sort of common activity.

Quote
As for mixing friends, what would be the purpose? I don't mix friends unless I think individuals will specifically get along.
I guess I can't help thinking that if rich friends realized that they're living in the same community as people who live in an apartment the size of their bathroom and whose monthly rent is the same cost as their lunch, they would wave their magic money wand and make the problems go away. I dunno.  I know that the same is true of me and my bathroom and my lunch if you look globally but I don't wave my magic money wand much. Or maybe my rich friends are already doing a lot of donations, I can't make assumptions.

I agree, a better fit would be, for example, if I invited my jazz musician friend, who is unemployed and disabled, to attend a concert with a jazz aficionado rich friend. But such natural pairings have not arisen yet (plus my actual jazz musician friend and I stopped speaking a few years ago over something stupid,  but that's another story...)

Metalcat

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Re: How do you socialize with people of different income levels?
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2024, 10:04:12 AM »
Okay, I'm going to be a bit harsh here because I'm in a mood today, so please don't take it personally.

But it's hella manipulative for you to want to mix your friends so that the rich ones will take pity on the poor ones.

Your rich friends aren't stupid, they know full well that poor people exist. If they don't want to be more generous towards the poor people in their community, that's their business. If you want your rich friends to witness the lived experience of poor people, invite them to go volunteer with you, don't use your other friends as tragedy porn.

Again, I'm in a seriously dark mood today, so I apologize if the above is super harsh. I honestly can't tell today because of my mood.

Otherwise, the logistics thing is still a non-issue. You will always have people who have different lifestyles than you, it doesn't mean you can't be friends. Perhaps you can't hang out with them all the time because you do different things, but that's not a big deal.

A number of my friends who are on my economic "level" have kids in travel hockey teams. I don't have kids and I fucking hate hockey. So I can't be integrated into their social circle of travel-hockey parents, nor would I want to, that sounds fucking miserable.

That means I don't get a ton of time with them because we have different priorities....okay, that's fine. I also don't get a ton of time with my surgeon friends who do shift work or my friends who travel for work.

Also, I live in two locations that are VERY far apart from each other, so anyone who is friends with me can only socialize with me for half the year unless they want to fly or drive 30+ hours.

People have all sorts of factors that make it challenging to integrate into their lifestyle. That's 100% normal.

Making friends only with folks who have the same wealth level as you won't magically eliminate the myriad other factors that make it difficult to integrate into someone's day-to-day lifestyle. That's why it's important to connect with people on deeper levels so that friendships are based on more than how often you sit at the same table drinking beverages, or whatever.

I do love having friends I can see often, and that's a big part of why I love my friends in the fishing village. They are big on getting together frequently. But as I said, I only see them half the year.

Friendships come in all shapes and sizes and levels of depth.

It sounds like you are trying to cram all of your friendships into the same cookie-cutter shape, when that's not how human connections work.

You are friends with a variety of people, you should expect to have a variety of types of friendships.

What are these friendships fundamentally founded on? Recognize those elements, respect them, and try to look at them through a lens of deeper meaning than you've been trying to.

As I said, I deal with serious health issues. I have massive limitations of what I can physically do. I often can't tolerate sitting at a restaurant for very long, and as I said, I don't live near anyone for longer than half a year at a time.

If all of my friends assessed our friendships through the lens of how easy it is for me to fit into their day-to-day lives, I would have no friends.

And yet, I have tons of deep, profound, meaningful, wonderful friendships where we figure out what actually matters between us and find ways to nurture and cultivate those connections.

What restaurant we choose to go to is like the *least* important element of how and why we connect.

Laura33

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Re: How do you socialize with people of different income levels?
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2024, 10:15:58 AM »
Quote
Also, lastly, I would just drop the thinking of people at "levels." No matter what wealth a person has, people are so complex that there are endless angles through which you can view similarity and difference.

The "levels" come up because they impose logistical inequalities which make it harder to sustain connections. I don't require that my friends be like me, or be wise, or have it together, I can meet them where they are, and I have a broad range of interests. Typically we connect over kids or community work and find we converse easily. But I'm seeing that I may have to let go of my assumption that friends share equally in invitations/expenses. I also have to intentionally seek out some sort of common activity.

Quote
As for mixing friends, what would be the purpose? I don't mix friends unless I think individuals will specifically get along.
I guess I can't help thinking that if rich friends realized that they're living in the same community as people who live in an apartment the size of their bathroom and whose monthly rent is the same cost as their lunch, they would wave their magic money wand and make the problems go away. I dunno.

As to the first, all you can do is engage on your terms.  The important thing is reciprocity, not that the "thing" be precisely equal.  It's fine to go out to a fancy dinner with a rich friend who pays.  Just think of things that you can invite them to in return, like a picnic that you plan and prepare, or a home-cooked meal, or a trail hike, or something else that you think they might enjoy.  It is about doing things together that you'd both enjoy, and no particular person always having to do the asking/giving. 

As to the second:  oh fuck no.  If you like these people and are friends, be friends.  Don't pressure one friend set to "save" another friend set.  That's putting yourself in a morally superior position, which is a death knell for any true friendship -- and it's telling your rich friends that you value them mostly for their wallets.

Obviously, if there's something your diverse friend sets enjoy, invite everyone and see what happens.  But don't do it as some sort of setup with the goal of helping one set of friends to see the light.

tl;dr:  Be you.  Do things you enjoy.  Invite friends who might be interested to join you, and join them when you're interested in what they invite you to.  The folks who are going to be the true, long-term friends are the ones with whom you don't have to work quite so hard to make things happen and maintain connections -- the ones who are happy to take you out to dinner and join you for a free picnic, or vice-versa, because the important thing is enjoying each other's company.

ixtap

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Re: How do you socialize with people of different income levels?
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2024, 10:23:09 AM »
We invite friends of all income levels to game nights and picnics/grilling.

Or we will make a pot of chili and invite friends over. I did make brisket once, but that was for DH's colleagues and we ended up with more leftovers than what we originally cooked.

For those who are interested, we take them out sailing. Some of our rich friends have power boats and are interested in experiencing sailing, even if our boat isn't as fancy as theirs.

Volunteering for things that provide meals to the volunteers can be rewarding for all income levels, as well.

We have mixed friends up when we think they will get along, without ever considering their relative income levels. Many of our higher wealth friends are members of Rotary or Lions and doing as much as they are going to do for various charities.


GilesMM

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Re: How do you socialize with people of different income levels?
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2024, 10:41:10 AM »
We don’t let money interfere with friendship.

Poundwise

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Re: How do you socialize with people of different income levels?
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2024, 11:18:58 AM »
Okay, I'm going to be a bit harsh here because I'm in a mood today, so please don't take it personally.

But it's hella manipulative for you to want to mix your friends so that the rich ones will take pity on the poor ones.

Your rich friends aren't stupid, they know full well that poor people exist. If they don't want to be more generous towards the poor people in their community, that's their business. If you want your rich friends to witness the lived experience of poor people, invite them to go volunteer with you, don't use your other friends as tragedy porn.
I didn't say I was going to mix friends for this reason, so I don't need the scolding or to be called manipulative. I was explaining why sometimes the impulse to bring them together existed, and also said why I thought it wouldn't be a good idea.

 Of course the rich know that the poor exist, but as abstracts or as real humans? I think we* live in a society where the two are moving too far apart. Shouldn't there be a continuum? Am I contributing to this problem by unnaturally keeping my friends groups separate? Shouldn't I help friends network and decide for themselves who may benefit? I'm trying to work out the bipolarity in my life.

But my original question wasn't how to bring my friends together. That will happen or not as it makes sense.

Even though the logistical issues of staying friends may be a non-issue in your life, in my life, they are. I am trying to sustain relationships which have points of discomfort because of these financial/lifestyle incompatibilities. I'm realizing I have to be at the same time more intentional and more natural about managing them.  If my rich friends invite me frequently, but I never initiate anything because I feel like I have to match them, they may think I don't like them, or maybe they think I'm boring, and we drift apart.

On the other hand, in my friendships with lower income friends, I have to leave them room to give and show friendship, too. Even if I like to treat them, maybe I should propose more free activities like going for walks in their neighborhood or cooking together at my home so they know I'm not high maintenance.

*Americans, that is.

Metalcat

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Re: How do you socialize with people of different income levels?
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2024, 11:37:54 AM »
You edited out the part where I pre-emptively apologized for being harsh. I friend's kid died today, so I'm in a fucked up headspace and having a hard time judging my own tone.

However, I responded to what you said, which seemed to very clearly say that you wanted to mix friends so that the rich ones would get exposure to the poor ones and perhaps be more generous as a result.

If that's not what you meant to say, then cool, people are misunderstood all the time. But I responded to what I thought was very clear meaning of what you said in your post.

Laura then responded the exact same way, so I don't think I was unreasonable in my interpretation.

But I *did* hedge that my tone and delivery might be way off because I'm feeling fucked up today.

Dicey

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Re: How do you socialize with people of different income levels?
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2024, 12:04:36 PM »
Ugh, @Metalcat, that sucks. Given how much crap you deal with constantly, it must be really bad. Sending soft, non-contact hugs and virtual chicken soup, or whatever helps. I hope the situation improves soon.

ETA: Give me an "F" for reading comprehension today. I missed the reason why you were feeling crappy. Losing someone tragically never improves. Life goes on and eventually life without them in it becomes the new normal, but the hole is always there.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2024, 05:58:09 PM by Dicey »

Laura33

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Re: How do you socialize with people of different income levels?
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2024, 12:08:10 PM »
On the other hand, in my friendships with lower income friends, I have to leave them room to give and show friendship, too. Even if I like to treat them, maybe I should propose more free activities like going for walks in their neighborhood or cooking together at my home so they know I'm not high maintenance.

+1.  Part of being a good friend is caring about the other person's feelings and wanting them to be comfortable.  So questions like that ("would X feel uncomfortable if I paid to do ABC?") are exactly the kinds of questions that make you a true friend to someone who is different from you. 

Maybe a good way to think about it is to reverse the "who" and the "what."  Instead of "I want to go out to eat, X can't afford that, so I'll invite Y," start with "gee, I'd really like to hang out with X this weekend, what do I think X would like to do?"  Obviously, there will still be a lot of "I want to see a movie, who wants to come with me?"  But starting from a place of wanting to hang out with a particular friend can help balance out those other event-driven get-togethers and make sure you're still in touch with the people you care about.

@Metalcat -- so, so sorry to hear that.  Terrible.

Poundwise

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Re: How do you socialize with people of different income levels?
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2024, 12:26:28 PM »
Metalcat, I'm so sorry for your loss, that is terrible and I have no hard feelings about your harshness.

You are correct, I do sometimes wish that I could "mix friends so that the rich ones would get exposure to the poor ones and perhaps be more generous as a result". For me, it's an unavoidable thought given the stunning contrasts that I see in a short time period. But a wish is not the same as acting on it.

I would never pressure one friend set to help the other set or do anything to embarrass them. I agree with you and Laura that it would be a dreadful idea.  If I ever do bring friends together, it will be on the basis of mutual interest and I wouldn't share irrelevant or personal details or anything that would compromise dignity.

I appreciate the tips from you, @ixtap, and Laura on identifying points of connection, not trying to cram my friendships into one mold, and examples of fun things to do together that aren't price conscious.

Dicey

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Re: How do you socialize with people of different income levels?
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2024, 12:29:42 PM »
To answer the question, I find this is highly reflective of the source of your friendships. For a lot of people, it's their work or through their children. As a singleton until late in life, I had to look for other ways to make friends. I did this by following things I enjoy. I volunteer/d at the library, our regional theater, and a thrift shop. I serve as co-chair of a large community event. I help strong candidates get elected to our City Council. I serve on a number of community-interest boards. In every situation, there are people at all levels on the financial spectrum. Rich or poor, we all have something in common. This week's examples:

Tomorrow,  I'm going on a new City Art Walk. A board I serve on gave them a grant to pay for materials for this new walk. I'll be attending with a friend who. I serve on another board with. A third friend was slated to attend, but fell and broke a bone. I made and delivered dinner for them and have done a little grocery shopping as well. (Not this week though.)

Last weekend, I went to a [musical arts] fundraiser with a friend from the thrift store. She was wearing more jewelry than my fancy-pants RV is worth. (She's FIRE, don't fret. She loves jewelry and sources it wisely.) She also donated a LOT of money at the event.

I spoke at a City Council meeting this week on behalf of two boards I serve on. As a representative of a group, I was given ten minutes, but only needed three, which was still nerve-racking. It was made a bit easier by all the people I knew in the room.

Yesterday, a group of which I am president held their monthly program, which I MC'd. Several friends I know from that group are donating auction items to an upcoming  fundraising event I'm working on.

Sorry these aren't in order, but I'm off to another event at noon and not dressed yet, lol.

Metalcat

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Re: How do you socialize with people of different income levels?
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2024, 12:36:20 PM »
Thanks folks, I just shared to be accountable for if my tone is wonky because I honestly have no clue how to gauge it today.

As for my point about logistics not impacting friendships, obviously they impact how easy it is to socialize with those people, but it doesn't impact the depth of my friendships.

I just saw one of my closest friends a few days ago, that was my second time seeing him in a decade. Would it be nice to see him more often? Of course, but that doesn't mean we aren't great, dear friends.

My point is that you can only engage with people however they are available to you. You have to meet people where they are and vice versa. And friendships are going to be what they're going to be based on how compatible your lifestyles and values are.

You don't need someone to be more like you to be friends with them. You only need them to be more like you if your goal is to have them socialize more on your terms.

I can't get the travel hockey parents to socialize more on my terms. I'm never going to get them to spend more time on non-hockey-travel stuff and I will never join them in hockey travel.

And that's okay. They're never going to be the friends I hang out with super frequently, and that's okay.

Friendship doesn't need to look a specific way to be valuable.

okits

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Re: How do you socialize with people of different income levels?
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2024, 02:26:11 PM »
We certainly experience this to a much lesser extent.  And in the context of friendships my children bring about, they're tentative connections and not deep friendships where there's the trust to have awkward or personal discussions (like "are you food insecure?"  On the other end of the spectrum are perhaps people who look at our outward signs of frugality and wonder if we need financial assistance.)

It's something that I find needs thoughtful effort to navigate.  Like making sure there is a reasonable match between what they seem to want from the friendship and what I want (e.g. our kids having fun playing together, company, interesting conversations, useful information, common interests, support and help). Including whether reciprocation must be like-for-like or if you can show kindness and caring in different ways. 

Everyone has their pride so I think waiting until someone indicates a desire for financial or professional benefit from the connection is a good thing.  Everyone has different circumstances and with that, inequalities in what they have or don't have.  It's good to find a way to enjoy each other's company and compassionately support one another without the expectation that you can or will fix each other's problems.  For example, I've had a parent die and my close friends' parents are all still alive.  I don't want them to feel bad about their having something I don't.  I do want their kindness and support in my grief, and to still be company when I'd like companionship.

(I started writing this response hours ago and the conversation may have moved on since then, but I'll throw in 2 cents in case they still help.  @Metalcat  , I'm so sorry for the death of your friend's kid.)

FINate

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Re: How do you socialize with people of different income levels?
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2024, 03:18:11 PM »
The number one way we deal with this is not being weird about it. I know that sounds stupidly simple, but it is.

When we decide to help a friend financially we do our best to do so anonymously. Usually this means going through an intermediary such as our church. I would rather they not know and just be surprised and blessed.

We have given cars and laptops to people that needed them. For stuff like this I just communicate that we don't expect anything in return, yet encourage them to pay it forward in the future if they can help someone else in need.

For things like hand-me-downs we don't try to anonymize and prioritize families we know will appreciate it. Obviously, the millionaires with new name brand stuff don't want it. We just make it clear than we don't want perfectly good clothes ending up in the landfill, so if they want anything we're happy if it gets put to good use.

Very wealthy friends can be trickier depending on the details. If I get the sense someone is just making ostentatious displays of wealth because they are status seeking, and are always upping the ante with things like uber fancy dinners because they want to make us feel inferior or dependent on their "generosity" -- well, is this really a friend? Sounds more like a manipulative narcissist. I will be polite and nice to folks like this, but I play my cards close and avoid their games. Really, who needs this? Whereas wealthy friends with a healthy EQ are aware of their privilege and how it affects others. I have no problems being friends with people like this. Having dinner (BBQ or whatever) at someone's house is a great way to avoid most problems. If they want to bring a $200 bottle of wine I'll happily partake, but I'm not going to reciprocate with a similarly priced bottle. If that's a problem they can stop bringing overpriced wine. We'll occasionally go to a spendy restaurant, but we just split the check.   
« Last Edit: March 08, 2024, 03:20:16 PM by FINate »

Villanelle

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Re: How do you socialize with people of different income levels?
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2024, 03:55:20 PM »
I guess I just do my best not to make it matter, at either end of the spectrum.  For the wealthy friends, I just host or offer hospitality in ways that feel right.  It's not transactional--they invite me to Martha's Vineyard, so I have to do something that feels equal.  If I want to invite their kid to a camping trip, that's what I'd do.  If they feel it's not sufficient, that speaks to their character.  It shouldn't be transactional.

At the other end of the spectrum, my friends for whom money is tight would likely feel weird if I tried to step in and pay 3 months' rent.  They'd be grateful, but I think they'd also feel a little off about it, especially if it was ongoing.  They want to be friends, not objects of pity or charity.  Involving money too much can push them to the latter.  Sure, I might occasionally just pay the entire lunch tab, in which case I'd be super casual about it.  And yes, I'd be mindful of what activities I suggest, and might steer us to free or low-cost activities.

Just don't make it a thing.  It rarely needs to be, especially if you are thoughtful about it.  Extend nice invitations to the richies, with the "nice" refering to thoughtfulness and effort.  And the same for the financially struggling friends.  And be thoughtful to all.  You wouldn't invite a friend who is afraid of heights to sky dive.  Apply the same concepts.

I won't address the pretty-icky idea of mixing them for the purpose of a life lesson, since it would be pretty condescending to both sets of friends.  I'm glad you won't actually do it. 

YttriumNitrate

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Re: How do you socialize with people of different income levels?
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2024, 04:34:18 PM »
One even wanted to take my son with them on tours of India and Africa to be company for their son (for various reasons we had to decline so they took another kid.) But we're not able to do much in return as we're car camping sort of people, though we do go on an airplane/Airbnb type trip once every few years.
Let your kid join them on the far flung trips, and make sure you invite their kids to join you on the car camping trips. Everyone will be happy in that situation.

Poundwise

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Re: How do you socialize with people of different income levels?
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2024, 04:35:16 PM »
At the other end of the spectrum, my friends for whom money is tight would likely feel weird if I tried to step in and pay 3 months' rent.  They'd be grateful, but I think they'd also feel a little off about it, especially if it was ongoing.  They want to be friends, not objects of pity or charity.  Involving money too much can push them to the latter.  Sure, I might occasionally just pay the entire lunch tab, in which case I'd be super casual about it.  And yes, I'd be mindful of what activities I suggest, and might steer us to free or low-cost activities.

To be clear, the rent thing happened not because I'm a nosy busybody, but because we were asked for help.  My son's friend's family had nobody else to ask and the entire family was on the verge of going to a shelter. We structured it as payment for help putting up trim in one room, plus help with some future interior work at a date TBD. I'm glad we did it, as it helped them get over a hump, then Covid happened and they started to get Covid checks, and now they seem to be doing okay.

My friends with low income are comfortable with me because I'm also a brown person and present very frugal, and I have been through poor times and understand many of their struggles. I know many of them through volunteer work; sometimes our first encounter was them needing help so they aren't embarrassed by receiving help. Also some of them were/are very active as volunteers themselves and so it's only right to extend a hand to them as needed. 

The wealthy friends I tend to encounter through my kids and other (arts) organizations that we're associated with. We click through our interests, education, same sense of humor, etc.  They are usually kind people (thus the invitations), but very busy with work and with managing kids' activities.   So the way they socialize is different than mine.

I thought that the Mustachian community would be more likely to have the same problem as me, since we probably have more "millionaires next door" types.

kite

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Re: How do you socialize with people of different income levels?
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2024, 07:52:30 PM »
Entertain at home. Don’t try too hard. Just be yourself.  Use your good plates, not disposables.

My immediate family runs the gamut from those who’ve been homeless for periods to time to multi-millionaires with international vacations and multiple properties. We get together most weeks at someone’s home. Same with my friends (an equally diverse group as yours).

Restaurants are uncomfortable for me. But at home it’s a whole ‘nother thing. It’s loads cheaper by every metric. It can be more relaxed and fun and people like to come over and have someone cook for them. Few people have dinner parties anymore (even among rich folks) so if you do it, it will be special. 
Don’t try too hard or overthink it. It’s just protein, vegetables & salad. Buy cookies for desert.

I used to ride horses and hung with a pretty economically diverse group of horse people.  One of the women hosted an annual event at her place that everyone came to. In included the folks so rich they’d spend $70,000 on a stallion to the folks who had nothing and lived in a tiny borrowed trailer adjacent to the barn in exchange for grooming horses and cleaning stalls. It was her annual pumpkin carving party. She served chili (Meat & Vegan varieties) and had a buffet set up with toppings. It was BYOP (bring your own pumpkin) and folks were asked to bring an appetizer, desert or beverage to share only if they were so inclined. She provided carving tools, tables and candles. We carved, had chili, went on a hayride and then lit up all the carved pumpkins after sundown. 
Nobody cared how rich or poor anyone else was.
All the pumpkin guts & waste went into her compost pile and that returned plenty of extra pumpkins the following year, so even those who were too poor to afford a pumpkin could still come and carve. Or the teens would tear through the extras showing off their creativity.

I’ve had game nights & painting parties indoors and croquet tournaments or Easter Egg hunts outdoors. During Advent, I’ve hosted cookie decorating parties and ornament making night. For the ornaments we used Sculpey clay and baked it in the oven. Everyone went home with ornaments to put on their trees. When I’m putting other stuff in the oven, I’ll order pizza to serve. At each of these the guests were friends who ranged from housekeepers to pilots, farm hands to Wall Street workers. But the net worth meant nothing. The activity & the laughs are what mattered. The more it’s done, the more natural it becomes.

It’s perfectly ordinary for me to bridge this gap not just because of my family, but because I go to church. The reality of religious practice is that it is very common to associate closely with an economically diverse group inside of church. What we have in common sitting in the pews is that we are Catholic. Some are wealthy like the Bidens & Pelosis and some are poor like the immigrants who just crossed the border. Most occupy the broad range in between and we frequently interact around the faith we have in common.

Metalcat

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Re: How do you socialize with people of different income levels?
« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2024, 08:24:31 PM »
At the other end of the spectrum, my friends for whom money is tight would likely feel weird if I tried to step in and pay 3 months' rent.  They'd be grateful, but I think they'd also feel a little off about it, especially if it was ongoing.  They want to be friends, not objects of pity or charity.  Involving money too much can push them to the latter.  Sure, I might occasionally just pay the entire lunch tab, in which case I'd be super casual about it.  And yes, I'd be mindful of what activities I suggest, and might steer us to free or low-cost activities.

To be clear, the rent thing happened not because I'm a nosy busybody, but because we were asked for help.  My son's friend's family had nobody else to ask and the entire family was on the verge of going to a shelter. We structured it as payment for help putting up trim in one room, plus help with some future interior work at a date TBD. I'm glad we did it, as it helped them get over a hump, then Covid happened and they started to get Covid checks, and now they seem to be doing okay.

My friends with low income are comfortable with me because I'm also a brown person and present very frugal, and I have been through poor times and understand many of their struggles. I know many of them through volunteer work; sometimes our first encounter was them needing help so they aren't embarrassed by receiving help. Also some of them were/are very active as volunteers themselves and so it's only right to extend a hand to them as needed. 

The wealthy friends I tend to encounter through my kids and other (arts) organizations that we're associated with. We click through our interests, education, same sense of humor, etc.  They are usually kind people (thus the invitations), but very busy with work and with managing kids' activities.   So the way they socialize is different than mine.

I thought that the Mustachian community would be more likely to have the same problem as me, since we probably have more "millionaires next door" types.

Plenty of us run into the same "issues" we just don't necessarily see them as a problem.

As I said above, if I make a very wealthy friend who mostly socializes in ways that are expensive and that's what they prefer and they're only available to me in a limited capacity to do things that are more frugal, that's fine, I just will have limited ways in which I socialize with them, this is no different than having limited opportunities with my travel-hockey friends.

I engage with people in whatever way they are reasonably able to engage with me and I don't stress about it.

So if I want to go to a concert and a less wealthy friend can't come, that's fine. If a wealthy friend wants to do a $4000 weekend away and I don't want to spend that to join them, that's fine.

I spend whatever time makes sense doing whatever shared activities make sense, often just hanging out at my house drinking tea or playing backgammon.

I don't have to fit every friend's life like a glove. Lifestyle mismatch is a barrier to spending a lot of time with someone, but it's not a barrier to being friends.

Chris Pascale

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Re: How do you socialize with people of different income levels?
« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2024, 08:44:57 PM »
our kids' friends' families frequently invite them to their other homes on Martha's Vineyard and ski houses in VT and CO. One even wanted to take my son with them on tours of India and Africa

Some people would just be thrilled to have a genuine interaction over cards (or Cards Against Humanity) and beer, especially if they can tell you the story of how they met. Others will be like, I take his kid to India, and he passes the Schlitz?!?!?!

Include these wonderful people in your barbecues, leave your door open to the kid, and you might find it's all ok.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2024, 11:03:43 PM by Chris Pascale »

kite

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Re: How do you socialize with people of different income levels?
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2024, 10:11:34 AM »
Plenty of us run into the same "issues" we just don't necessarily see them as a problem.

Yeah, this.

jeninco

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Re: How do you socialize with people of different income levels?
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2024, 02:49:21 PM »
One even wanted to take my son with them on tours of India and Africa to be company for their son (for various reasons we had to decline so they took another kid.) But we're not able to do much in return as we're car camping sort of people, though we do go on an airplane/Airbnb type trip once every few years.
Let your kid join them on the far flung trips, and make sure you invite their kids to join you on the car camping trips. Everyone will be happy in that situation.

Word. My kid spent a couple of vacations at a college friend's family penthouse in Cartagena (we paid for the tickets, as I recall, I think kid used his own money to contribute to the food budget and tipping the household staff), and we got to return the favor a year or two later when that kid's mom wanted him to have a place to go for winter break. (We are nowhere near their college, but the kids flew out, borrowed a car, and spent a week at a place we'd rented in the mountains of CO for a ski week. They joined us for our New Years' Eve tradition of fondue...)

shelivesthedream

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Re: How do you socialize with people of different income levels?
« Reply #25 on: March 12, 2024, 02:19:03 AM »
We don't have the same span of income levels that you talk about, but our solution is to have people over to our house. The poor people don't feel the pressure that taking them out somewhere implies. The rich people find the "personal touch" charming.

And reciprocation? Well, we try and be generous but don't sweat it. If someone gets their knickers in a twist that we haven't reciprocated adequately, I'm happy to let that "friendship" fade.

eyesonthehorizon

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Re: How do you socialize with people of different income levels?
« Reply #26 on: March 12, 2024, 08:39:47 AM »
I don’t know if this is true where OP lives, or driving the OP’s interest in mingling their friend groups, but in places where either there’s a strong infrastructural segregation by class (both the places people go, & how they get there, due to privatization & lack of public transit) or in places where race was the primary determinant of class until very recently (where often “meritocratic” classism became a socially acceptable proxy for passing on racial prejudices to desegregated generations), or both, as is common in much of America, I have witnessed or experienced strong pressures to “keep to your own kind.” It always rubbed me sharply the wrong way as I’m very accustomed to moving freely between spaces & groups, but some places it felt hard to escape that expectation.

I can see under those circumstances wanting to create intersections among likable, friendly people for whom negative stereotypes about other classes are latent beliefs (though not malevolent) ...  if I could stand them enough to become good friends in the first place, that is, because I have a shorter temper for it.

Reddleman

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Re: How do you socialize with people of different income levels?
« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2024, 03:44:44 PM »
To be completely honest, I sometimes feel like I'm a horrible person on this one. I have trouble trouble with wealth disparity in relationships. . . and I don't.

Why I have trouble with this:
I don't like rich people, or rich people things.  I became FI basically for the FU money, not because I wanted to buy/do expensive things.  I have different spending habits than most people I know.  I travel quite a bit, but travel around for 2-3 weeks on what most people in the U.S. would spend on a weekend away. I like to spend time in nature, doing something physical (including working and helping others), and chatting with local people.  Other than that, my work and spending life is pretty much similar to what I had in high school and college.  I spend a few hundred a month to buy some bike parts or some other random hobby, buy a new 90s daily driver car every few years, and borrow a lot from the library.  The problem?  I feel uncomfortable around people who feel they need dramatically more than this.  And I have to admit I judge them.  If someone asked if I wanted to go on vacation with them to Vail, I'd make an excuse and not go. One- it wouldn't be any fun for me.  And two- I probably wouldn't want to hang out with them again.  Luckily, I don't have kids so the amount of awkward conversations is pretty limited.

Why I *don't* have trouble with this:
While I technically have far more money than most people I know (and far, far, less than some other people I know), I don't spend much money.  Other than the trips, and a pretty nice home by my standards, my spending patterns are pretty basic.  I spend virtually all my time with people who either don't have tons of disposable income, or who are comfortably off and also don't care to spend a lot. 

I know where my allergy to conspicuous wealth comes from.  When I go home to visit family it's almost comical how often my dad, uncles and family talk about how annoying rich people are, or how shocked they are when they find a wealthy person who's actually a pretty decent person.  We're a family of public servants and contractors and these opinions have been formulated by decades of collective experience. 

So would I be happier if I was less self-righteous about other people's spending?  I don't know.  It sure would make it easier to find people to spend time with.  But I'm firmly in middle age now, and I don't think it's going to change. 

Maybe this doesn't resonate with anyone else, but it's probably good therapy for me, so thanks for listening. 

Retire-Canada

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Re: How do you socialize with people of different income levels?
« Reply #28 on: Today at 08:21:02 AM »
Do you have friendships like these and how do you maintain them?

My external appearance is of a normal upper middle class person in my area. Nothing super fancy or exceptional. I have the wealth of someone few rungs higher up the social ladder. Most of my friends are at the same wealth level as my appearance would suggest I am. So we just operate on that basis and it's comfortable. I just have a lot more free time than they do!

I do have one friend who spends a lot. We are probably at the same wealth level. I may actually be wealthier, but it's hard to say as we don't share specific details. When I visit him I'll bring my skateboard to get around his city and then he'll meet me in his 911 or $250K+ sprinter van and we'll go do something together. He often wants to pay for me. I think he thinks I'm broke or at least not doing well financially. I try and alternate paying for stuff, but he often finds a way to take care of the bill before I can do so. It's not huge money so I don't care too much about it, but it is funny.

I'm not going to spend lavishly on cars, boats, houses, restaurants, etc... So I don't meet people who are externally demonstrating their high levels of wealth. The rich people I have met haven't been particularly interesting to me so there is no huge incentive to be friends with them vs. the middle class folks I already know.