Author Topic: Whole house fan - Window Airking  (Read 511 times)

MrSal

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 666
Whole house fan - Window Airking
« on: May 26, 2018, 08:18:14 PM »
So, I am in the lookout for a good fan that can circulate air...

My house is about 1200 sq feet single story, where living room and kitchen is probably halft that in open space.

Looking to get a window fan that is sort of a whole house fan.

I have been looking into Air King 9155 and Air King 9166 ... any feedback on these 2? The 9155 is about 80$ while the other one is hard to come by less than 160$ ... however reviews on Amazon in terms of longevity don't look good for 9155 in terms of its bearings... however the 9166 does not look much better.

Since I insulated my house during winter time, our house gets pretty well during day time however, a lot of days of warm weather such as the past few ones, even by opening windows - if the day ends up being at 76F inside the house (cool compared to the 88+ F outside) ... during the night with windows open it does not make a dent AT ALL! I need some sort of fan to exhaust all the air out and take advantage of the low 60's that are around at night! This would enable us to reset the clock the next day without using AC instead of starting the day at 76F

terran

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1133
Re: Whole house fan - Window Airking
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2018, 08:46:12 PM »
This might be a stupid question, so I'm really looking to learn here, but how is one of these better than just sticking a box fan in the window? That's what I do.

MrSal

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 666
Re: Whole house fan - Window Airking
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2018, 09:04:12 PM »
This might be a stupid question, so I'm really looking to learn here, but how is one of these better than just sticking a box fan in the window? That's what I do.

Im suire there has to be a differnece... a box window moves what? 200 CFM ? It probably fails at generating negative pressure in the house... a fan that moves 3600 CFM it sure moves a lot of air and makes the air in the house actually move out by creating negative pressure...

This is me just talking out of my ass though... but that's what my mind tells me in terms of the technicals.

nkt0

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 20
Re: Whole house fan - Window Airking
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2018, 09:43:07 PM »
Donít have any answers, but I am interested myself. We have a two-story rowhouse so circulation is an issue. Trying a box fan now as a mustachian solution.

peace

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Whole house fan - Window Airking
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2018, 09:59:43 PM »
My house is about 1100 sq ft with an open living room/dining room/kitchen. I use a 16Ē Lasko fan that looks almost identical to the smaller one you're considering. I run it 2-3 hours a day in the morning because it's usually still too hot outside when I go to bed to set it up, but I've been satisfied with what it does. I open up all the doors and windows, and turn on a fan in a corner that isn't in the direct flow I've created. It brings the inside down to within 5 degrees of the outside temperature, usually by 3-4 degrees an hour. For me, that postpones the AC kicking on by about 6 hours most summer days. This will be the fifth year I've had it.

MrSal

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 666
Re: Whole house fan - Window Airking
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2018, 10:07:46 PM »
My house is about 1100 sq ft with an open living room/dining room/kitchen. I use a 16Ē Lasko fan that looks almost identical to the smaller one you're considering. I run it 2-3 hours a day in the morning because it's usually still too hot outside when I go to bed to set it up, but I've been satisfied with what it does. I open up all the doors and windows, and turn on a fan in a corner that isn't in the direct flow I've created. It brings the inside down to within 5 degrees of the outside temperature, usually by 3-4 degrees an hour. For me, that postpones the AC kicking on by about 6 hours most summer days. This will be the fifth year I've had it.

This is what I am trying to accomplish... my night temperatures are low enough in the low 60s or high 60s at most... however, whenever we get a few days with warmer temperatures it's hard to get the hgouse to "reset" ... for example the past 3 days its been in the high 80s low 90s ... the first day it was fine, the house only went from 69 F in the morning to 72 or so ... then during the night it was able to get down to 71 F even though outside it was lower.... from 71 F in the morning it went up to 74F ... then the next day it went from 74F to 77F... and today it went from 76F to 78/79F ... At this point we are in need of AC! even though the outside temperatures at night have been in the 60s, the house simply does not move the hot air outside... i guess having a well insulated house has this caveat!

Hence my plan of trying to solve this "problem" ... So far I have bought a Vornado = which isn't really a window fan = and I also bought from Amazon the 9166 Airking to try it out (gotta love the free returns...) we'll see how it goes.

I was trying to get the house to exterior temperatures within 2 hours at least...

Can you link your Lasko Fan you are talking about? Is that the 16" Lasko alternative to Airking 9155 ?? Is it the Lasko 2155A ??

https://www.amazon.com/Lasko-2155A-Electrically-Reversible-16-Inch/dp/B00FXOFNYQ

How is this fan in terms of longevity> This is a chepaer version essentialy of the Airking 9155

peace

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Whole house fan - Window Airking
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2018, 10:34:03 PM »
Yes, that's the Lasko I have. This is my fifth year using it, but I only use it 2-3 hours a day during the summer. I have another Lasko fan that I've had longer and run daily for 12+ hours that's still working fine, so I've had good luck with the brand in general.

In addition to the insulation, I think fabrics and furniture hold the heat. That's part of the reason I can't get the inside and outside temperatures closer than 5 degrees.

I didn't have any luck with regular fans placed in doors and windows. The air from them seems to almost bounce off the screening rather than go outside. I usually put the Lasko in the window tracking, and seal the area around it with the curtain so it isn't just pulling outside air from the uncovered screen and pushing it back outside again.

red_pill

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 63
  • Location: Canada
Re: Whole house fan - Window Airking
« Reply #7 on: Today at 01:02:15 AM »
Iím no expert by a long shot but Iíve played around with this a lot at my house and whatís worked for me is actually not opening all the windows all of the way. Instead, I only open the windows all of the way on the side of the house that is the ďintakeĒ (if there is a breeze then this will be the windows that the breeze would blow into, or the window I have the fan set up in). On the outflow side I just open windows a small amount.  This creates (I think) the pressure differential to get more airflow.  I find if itís all open there is no pressure difference and hence no air movement. And a 20Ē box fan moves around 2500 cfm, so itís not the amount of air the fan is moving, itís how itís set up.  Iíve also read about guys setting a box fan up in their attic access taking advantage of the whole heat rises thing. But Iíve never done that.  Iíd love to hear more from someone who actually knows how to do this properly.

Also, have you explored what you can do to limit your heat gain during the day from sunlight?  Im experimenting with some exterior blinds to see how it works and so far it seems to help.
« Last Edit: Today at 01:23:52 AM by red_pill »

nkt0

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 20
Re: Whole house fan - Window Airking
« Reply #8 on: Today at 06:23:27 AM »
Found this article which explains how to do this quite well.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Cool-Your-House-With-Negative-Pressure-Ventilation/

YttriumNitrate

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 266
  • Location: Northwest Indiana
Re: Whole house fan - Window Airking
« Reply #9 on: Today at 07:46:00 AM »
Im suire there has to be a differnece... a box window moves what? 200 CFM ? It probably fails at generating negative pressure in the house... a fan that moves 3600 CFM it sure moves a lot of air and makes the air in the house actually move out by creating negative pressure...

A box fan can easily do 1500+ CFM, this $17 one at Home Depot claims to do 2500+ CFM on high. The main issues with using a box fan as a whole house fan are A) they often are a pain to mount on windows and B) they are designed for blowing rather than sucking which means to make them suck better you'll need to make the square box have a circular opening. Making the circular opening that matches the diameter of the blades is easy (a few cents worth of duck tape and cardboard will do), but getting to fan to stay in the window (with a relatively good seal) can be a pain.

ender

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4125
Re: Whole house fan - Window Airking
« Reply #10 on: Today at 11:41:51 AM »
We just put in a whole house fan. It does a few things.

It pulls air throughout the house and exhausts it through the attic. This means that you get a few benefits. First, it cycles air in your house quickly, so if the temperature outside is cooler than inside, it quickly cools your house. Second, because it vents to the attic, your attic air temperature decreases much more quickly than it naturally would, because you are forcing all the warmer air inside the attic out.

Regarding box fans, you need to realize that a box fan itself isn't going to be as efficient as its rated CFM without modifications similar to what @YttriumNitrate is suggesting in order to actually keep the fan blowing air in the right direction. You can't really create negative pressure from a fan that has a large area immediately by the fan that is letting air back into the house.


In any of these setups you need to be wary of pulling in humid air, as it's not difficult to pull in "cool" but super humid air and cause moisture problems.

red_pill

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 63
  • Location: Canada
Re: Whole house fan - Window Airking
« Reply #11 on: Today at 12:02:00 PM »
@ender - can you explain a bit more about humidity?  Iíve been relying WAY less on my air conditioner lately, but my basement is getting humid sometimes.  Any strategies to combat this beyond getting a dehumidifier? What could I be doing in cooling my house that is causing this? Or is it just because Iím not running the a/c the air isnít circulating in the house and the cool, humid air is sitting in the basement?  (Actually, Iíve only started paying attention to it, so it may have been pretty much like this for a while but it does seem a bit worse).

MrSal

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 666
Re: Whole house fan - Window Airking
« Reply #12 on: Today at 01:17:48 PM »
Iím no expert by a long shot but Iíve played around with this a lot at my house and whatís worked for me is actually not opening all the windows all of the way. Instead, I only open the windows all of the way on the side of the house that is the ďintakeĒ (if there is a breeze then this will be the windows that the breeze would blow into, or the window I have the fan set up in). On the outflow side I just open windows a small amount.  This creates (I think) the pressure differential to get more airflow.  I find if itís all open there is no pressure difference and hence no air movement. And a 20Ē box fan moves around 2500 cfm, so itís not the amount of air the fan is moving, itís how itís set up.  Iíve also read about guys setting a box fan up in their attic access taking advantage of the whole heat rises thing. But Iíve never done that.  Iíd love to hear more from someone who actually knows how to do this properly.

Also, have you explored what you can do to limit your heat gain during the day from sunlight?  Im experimenting with some exterior blinds to see how it works and so far it seems to help.

Heat gain during daytime is pretty minimized already... limited of course this is a house from the 50s ...

We have about 2 feet overhangs. On West side on the living room there is actually  aporch covering the big window... there are no South windows either so that's minimized. We only get sun during the beginning of morning and around 6-7 pm directly.

However, the house can only do so much... 3 days in a row of heat brought the interior temperature to 76F and then of course enduring another 90F day, the house heats up a couple more degrees...

My intention is trying to reset the house at night so that the house can restart the interior temperature in the 68-70F range and then gain maybe 3-4 degrees at most during a very hot day.

MrSal

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 666
Re: Whole house fan - Window Airking
« Reply #13 on: Today at 01:22:09 PM »
We just put in a whole house fan. It does a few things.

It pulls air throughout the house and exhausts it through the attic. This means that you get a few benefits. First, it cycles air in your house quickly, so if the temperature outside is cooler than inside, it quickly cools your house. Second, because it vents to the attic, your attic air temperature decreases much more quickly than it naturally would, because you are forcing all the warmer air inside the attic out.

Regarding box fans, you need to realize that a box fan itself isn't going to be as efficient as its rated CFM without modifications similar to what @YttriumNitrate is suggesting in order to actually keep the fan blowing air in the right direction. You can't really create negative pressure from a fan that has a large area immediately by the fan that is letting air back into the house.


In any of these setups you need to be wary of pulling in humid air, as it's not difficult to pull in "cool" but super humid air and cause moisture problems.

Yes I know that. We don't want an whole house fan into attic. We do have an attic fan that is temperature triggered during the day, however I have read those do more harm than good so I actually turned it off. We dont want to have a hole in the ceiling for the whole house fan, and since our house is small I have been eyeing this Air King alternative which is sold as a Whole House Fan Window Mounted. I don't mind having it in my office and then turn it on once outside temps are low enough.

Regarding humid air, we do get humidity at times during the summer at night but it's not the norm.

Anyhow, I ordered a few alternatives and I am going to try them all. I will keep the winner annd return the others...

ender

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4125
Re: Whole house fan - Window Airking
« Reply #14 on: Today at 02:37:19 PM »
@ender - can you explain a bit more about humidity?  Iíve been relying WAY less on my air conditioner lately, but my basement is getting humid sometimes.  Any strategies to combat this beyond getting a dehumidifier? What could I be doing in cooling my house that is causing this? Or is it just because Iím not running the a/c the air isnít circulating in the house and the cool, humid air is sitting in the basement?  (Actually, Iíve only started paying attention to it, so it may have been pretty much like this for a while but it does seem a bit worse).

Mainly just be aware of what the dew point is outside. Dew point, btw, is the temperature that the water in the air can begin to turn into dew/condensation. This is correlated with humidity percentage but has different meanings.

As an example, if your basement is normally around 64F and the dew point is 65F outside, if you were to cycle your entire upstairs with 65F air via fans of some sort, it's very likely that as that air mixes with the basement air, it'll be very humid and potentially you will get moisture problems.

Air conditioning does not work the same way as it actually removes humidity from the air as part of the process. Basement humidity is less likely a lack of circulation and more likely just a consequence of not having anything taking moisture out of the air. I guess if you don't want to run a dehumidifier your best bet is to try to cycle house air when outside humidity/dew point is the lowest?

red_pill

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 63
  • Location: Canada
Re: Whole house fan - Window Airking
« Reply #15 on: Today at 03:03:11 PM »
@ender - can you explain a bit more about humidity?  Iíve been relying WAY less on my air conditioner lately, but my basement is getting humid sometimes.  Any strategies to combat this beyond getting a dehumidifier? What could I be doing in cooling my house that is causing this? Or is it just because Iím not running the a/c the air isnít circulating in the house and the cool, humid air is sitting in the basement?  (Actually, Iíve only started paying attention to it, so it may have been pretty much like this for a while but it does seem a bit worse).

Mainly just be aware of what the dew point is outside. Dew point, btw, is the temperature that the water in the air can begin to turn into dew/condensation. This is correlated with humidity percentage but has different meanings.

As an example, if your basement is normally around 64F and the dew point is 65F outside, if you were to cycle your entire upstairs with 65F air via fans of some sort, it's very likely that as that air mixes with the basement air, it'll be very humid and potentially you will get moisture problems.

Air conditioning does not work the same way as it actually removes humidity from the air as part of the process. Basement humidity is less likely a lack of circulation and more likely just a consequence of not having anything taking moisture out of the air. I guess if you don't want to run a dehumidifier your best bet is to try to cycle house air when outside humidity/dew point is the lowest?

Ah, thanks.  It's not that I don't want to run a dehumidifier, it's just that I never had to before - so before I went out and bought one and used it (impacting my electricity bill) I wanted to make sure I wasn't doing something to cause the problem in the first place.   But I think the cause is that I used to be an A/C fiend but now we're almost never turning it on unless it's sweltering hot.

The basement tends to be about 64F, but the local dew point right now is around 46F (or so the weather channel tells me).

I think I'll have to bite the bullet and get a dehumidifier (though today - sunny and 72F at 40% humidity, I opened the basement windows and the humidity in the basement has dropped from 59% to 52% in a few hours).

Suggestions?


MrSal

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 666
Re: Whole house fan - Window Airking
« Reply #16 on: Today at 03:21:19 PM »
@ender - can you explain a bit more about humidity?  Iíve been relying WAY less on my air conditioner lately, but my basement is getting humid sometimes.  Any strategies to combat this beyond getting a dehumidifier? What could I be doing in cooling my house that is causing this? Or is it just because Iím not running the a/c the air isnít circulating in the house and the cool, humid air is sitting in the basement?  (Actually, Iíve only started paying attention to it, so it may have been pretty much like this for a while but it does seem a bit worse).

Mainly just be aware of what the dew point is outside. Dew point, btw, is the temperature that the water in the air can begin to turn into dew/condensation. This is correlated with humidity percentage but has different meanings.

As an example, if your basement is normally around 64F and the dew point is 65F outside, if you were to cycle your entire upstairs with 65F air via fans of some sort, it's very likely that as that air mixes with the basement air, it'll be very humid and potentially you will get moisture problems.

Air conditioning does not work the same way as it actually removes humidity from the air as part of the process. Basement humidity is less likely a lack of circulation and more likely just a consequence of not having anything taking moisture out of the air. I guess if you don't want to run a dehumidifier your best bet is to try to cycle house air when outside humidity/dew point is the lowest?

Ah, thanks.  It's not that I don't want to run a dehumidifier, it's just that I never had to before - so before I went out and bought one and used it (impacting my electricity bill) I wanted to make sure I wasn't doing something to cause the problem in the first place.   But I think the cause is that I used to be an A/C fiend but now we're almost never turning it on unless it's sweltering hot.

The basement tends to be about 64F, but the local dew point right now is around 46F (or so the weather channel tells me).

I think I'll have to bite the bullet and get a dehumidifier (though today - sunny and 72F at 40% humidity, I opened the basement windows and the humidity in the basement has dropped from 59% to 52% in a few hours).

Suggestions?

The best way is probably to use one of those automated outlets and you can create rules. Like if humidity is above 60% in basement, then turn on humidifier. They are not costly nowadays you can buy automated ones that connect to Alexa for 5 dollars a pop or so....

terran

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1133
Re: Whole house fan - Window Airking
« Reply #17 on: Today at 03:28:01 PM »
Anyhow, I ordered a few alternatives and I am going to try them all. I will keep the winner and return the others...

Please report back with your results!

red_pill

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 63
  • Location: Canada
Re: Whole house fan - Window Airking
« Reply #18 on: Today at 03:43:53 PM »
@ender - can you explain a bit more about humidity?  Iíve been relying WAY less on my air conditioner lately, but my basement is getting humid sometimes.  Any strategies to combat this beyond getting a dehumidifier? What could I be doing in cooling my house that is causing this? Or is it just because Iím not running the a/c the air isnít circulating in the house and the cool, humid air is sitting in the basement?  (Actually, Iíve only started paying attention to it, so it may have been pretty much like this for a while but it does seem a bit worse).

Mainly just be aware of what the dew point is outside. Dew point, btw, is the temperature that the water in the air can begin to turn into dew/condensation. This is correlated with humidity percentage but has different meanings.

As an example, if your basement is normally around 64F and the dew point is 65F outside, if you were to cycle your entire upstairs with 65F air via fans of some sort, it's very likely that as that air mixes with the basement air, it'll be very humid and potentially you will get moisture problems.

Air conditioning does not work the same way as it actually removes humidity from the air as part of the process. Basement humidity is less likely a lack of circulation and more likely just a consequence of not having anything taking moisture out of the air. I guess if you don't want to run a dehumidifier your best bet is to try to cycle house air when outside humidity/dew point is the lowest?

Ah, thanks.  It's not that I don't want to run a dehumidifier, it's just that I never had to before - so before I went out and bought one and used it (impacting my electricity bill) I wanted to make sure I wasn't doing something to cause the problem in the first place.   But I think the cause is that I used to be an A/C fiend but now we're almost never turning it on unless it's sweltering hot.

The basement tends to be about 64F, but the local dew point right now is around 46F (or so the weather channel tells me).

I think I'll have to bite the bullet and get a dehumidifier (though today - sunny and 72F at 40% humidity, I opened the basement windows and the humidity in the basement has dropped from 59% to 52% in a few hours).

Suggestions?

The best way is probably to use one of those automated outlets and you can create rules. Like if humidity is above 60% in basement, then turn on humidifier. They are not costly nowadays you can buy automated ones that connect to Alexa for 5 dollars a pop or so....

Connect my house to Alexa?  Pfft, nice try, Skynet. 

MrSal

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 666
Re: Whole house fan - Window Airking
« Reply #19 on: Today at 04:04:50 PM »
Found this article which explains how to do this quite well.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Cool-Your-House-With-Negative-Pressure-Ventilation/

Just to say that this works pretty great...

I pointed my Vornado to the door that is open (but with screen) and opened the window in my office at the other end of the house... I could feel a chunk of air coming in through the window. If the 15 dollar Lasko can do the same, that's pretty good and I think we have a winner.

Will probably try it tonight once outside temps go lower and see if it lowers the inside temperature in a reasonable amount of time.

nkt0

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 20
Re: Whole house fan - Window Airking
« Reply #20 on: Today at 04:23:44 PM »
Found this article which explains how to do this quite well.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Cool-Your-House-With-Negative-Pressure-Ventilation/
Just to say that this works pretty great...

I tried it last night, too, with a standard box fan and it seemed to work great in our bedroom. Of course, today it's only mid-60s, so won't be needing it tonight. :D

Papa bear

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 606
  • Location: Ohio
Re: Whole house fan - Window Airking
« Reply #21 on: Today at 07:29:52 PM »
We just put in a whole house fan. It does a few things.

It pulls air throughout the house and exhausts it through the attic. This means that you get a few benefits. First, it cycles air in your house quickly, so if the temperature outside is cooler than inside, it quickly cools your house. Second, because it vents to the attic, your attic air temperature decreases much more quickly than it naturally would, because you are forcing all the warmer air inside the attic out.

Regarding box fans, you need to realize that a box fan itself isn't going to be as efficient as its rated CFM without modifications similar to what @YttriumNitrate is suggesting in order to actually keep the fan blowing air in the right direction. You can't really create negative pressure from a fan that has a large area immediately by the fan that is letting air back into the house.


In any of these setups you need to be wary of pulling in humid air, as it's not difficult to pull in "cool" but super humid air and cause moisture problems.

Yes I know that. We don't want an whole house fan into attic. We do have an attic fan that is temperature triggered during the day, however I have read those do more harm than good so I actually turned it off. We dont want to have a hole in the ceiling for the whole house fan, and since our house is small I have been eyeing this Air King alternative which is sold as a Whole House Fan Window Mounted. I don't mind having it in my office and then turn it on once outside temps are low enough.

Regarding humid air, we do get humidity at times during the summer at night but it's not the norm.

Anyhow, I ordered a few alternatives and I am going to try them all. I will keep the winner annd return the others...

What's your aversion to a "hole" in the ceiling?  It's not like you are looking at fan blades straight to your attic...  there is normally finished slats that open when the fan is on, and new ones can be insulated more than R30.

So is it the look?  Or do you think it's a problem of functionality?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk