These two were the reasons why I borrowed too much. It's just easy to assume 4 year degree = ~60K minimum starting pay. Until I started running paycheck calculators and created an expense spreadsheet, the idea of just how little money I may have after paying bills never really sunk in.
Just yesterday I was in my classroom with a small group of high school seniors -- these are all general-level kids, not particularly wonderful students but all very capable. They were sorting out some books and things for me, and they were talking excitedly about their plans. One asked, "Where do you all expect to be in 20 years?" 100% of them claimed they expect to be college graduates, working in high-paying, exclusive jobs (lawyers, one surgeon, two who expect to own their own businesses -- one expects to be driving for NASCAR). Several expect to be living in ocean-front mansions, driving nice cars.
Sure, some of this comes from the excitement of being steps away from graduation and "talking it up" among friends, but they were all rather unrealistic.
First of all, I'm a big supporter of the "apply first, compare costs later" philosophy, particularly for advanced students (if you have 8 AP courses under your belt by senior year, community college will be of limited use, IMO). Private colleges sometimes have the endowment to offer generous scholarships that state schools cannot. There's nothing wrong with turning a school down if it turns out to be too expensive; but it makes sense to know what the real price is, first!
Disagree. Having taught high school seniors for so many years, I can assure you that about 99% of the time the more expensive school turns out to be . . . the more expensive school. The oft-mentioned urban myth of "this school is cheaper than the state school once they kick in their scholarships" turns out to be true so, so, so rarely that it's barely worth mentioning. It used to happen for 1-2 students in each graduating class, but now I haven't seen it in years.
The danger of "oh, just apply and we'll see what it costs" is that you risk the student falling in love with that overpriced school . . . and then it's tough for him to be happy with another school. No, I say only apply to schools that you can actually afford to attend. My oldest daughter was temporarily enchanted with a big-name, out-of-state school well known for sports and parties, a school that I felt was grossly unsuitable for her (lots of Greek life, seemed a little snooty to me). I told her she could apply, but she had to do so with the understanding that it was wildly more expensive than our in-state schools, and we could only swing it if massive scholarships appeared out of nowhere. She filled out the application, but in the end two things happened simultaneously: 1) She realized it really wasn't a good fit for her. 2) She realized that it was just too expensive. She never filed the application and forgot about the place.
Having worked with many, many students over the years -- students of all academic levels -- I'll add this: Scholarship money exists, but the vast majority of it is not school-specific. That is, you earn the scholarship, and it can be applied either to the expensive private school or the moderately-priced state school.
I went to one of the most expensive undergraduate institutions in the country, and I don't think I ever really considered the cost. (1) College was always expected (in my high school/family/social circle). (2) I was a top student, so "of course" I should go to a prestigious/expensive school. (3) The concept of paying back loans was so far in the future that it was hard, at 18 yo, to conceive. (4) Once you start talking about tens of thousands of dollars in loans, the differences don't seem that important (i.e., another drop in the bucket. (5) We were told that you go to the school that "fits" and that feels "right" -- not the school that suits your budget. (more like a marriage than a business deal). (6) We were told that your college sets you up for graduate school (if applicable) and dictates your social circle for the next 4 years (and possibly future) -- don't you want it to be your "dream school"? (7) I was offered a decent financial aid package my first year, include a $15,000/yr grant... that was promptly dropped after my first year because my parents increased their income (working more/longer hours) to be able to afford to send me to the school.
Sounds like you were "sold" the attitude that was prevalent a decade or so ago: You deserve the whole college experience. You'd be cheating yourself not to attend the dream school. I like your comment that it's more like a marriage than a business transaction.
Personally, I worked part-time in HS but I had no concept of how much rent cost, how bills were paid out of a salary etc. So when I was 17 looking at payment options for school, the concept of oh this will cost me $300 a month when I graduate literally had no meaning to me. I assumed that if I was able to take a loan for college then it must calculated by the college or loan program (Sallie Mae sounded like a quasi-governmental program i.e. they wouldn't screw me over) to be within reason with my expected salary. I didn't know how hard it is to find and keep a job (although I've done well). I didn't know anything about money or bills at all. So that is how you get into multi-thousand dollar college debt. The other option was to buy a (beater) car and attend classes per credit at the local community college while living at home, which is what someone with 1500 SAT score really wasn't counseled to do. On top of that, the closest community college was 45 minutes each way which is a lot in gas.
And my mom didn't know a thing about money either so there was no help there. Schools don't teach personal finance. I didn't have a concept of fancy vs. non-fancy. I shared ONE room with 2 other people with bunk beds. The food plan included Texas Toast and myster meat so I promptly left the plan and ate the local pizza (no kitchen in our dorms). There really was nothing too fancy about it not that I would have known the difference.
I graduated with around $70k in debt after 4 years (which included housing, utilities, and tuition). I didn't buy books because I didn't have enough money. I made $250 a month in a work study job because my school was in a dead zone where there was not even a cafe that hired students. I know all of this could have been mediated with more planning but I didn't know a thing at 17. I once walked 80 blocks because I didn't have $1.25 for a metro card and didn't have any nice clothes. I didn't study abroad or go on spring break. I made $3000 in the summer which I lived on almost all year plus the $2000 from work study. I didn't get any money from my family for expenses.
Unless you learn it from your parents, you don't know at that age.
My experience was very much like yours: I worked in high school, I saved, but I had no real concept of how much it cost to live, etc. I worked myself to death in college and didn't borrow, but looking back I can now see options that were available to me -- options that weren't obvious to me at that point. While I didn't do too badly, I could have made some better choices that would've made my life easier. For example, I always assumed I would work during college -- and for me that meant riding the city bus /adhering to their schedule. In contrast, my daughter attends a college that's physically smaller, and she has the choice
to walk to many job options. Likewise, books were always an issue for me; whereas my daughter's college tuition includes book rental. I should have considered things like that when making my college choice.
I disagree with one part: You said high school doesn't teach personal finance. I specifically remember my Algebra teacher (might've been Algebra 1 or 2 -- I had the same teacher for both classes) making us repeat over and over, "I want a simple interest loan with no prepayment penalty". And I remember other financial lessons in other classes. Today I have seen my daughters bring home financial lessons from school -- specifically I remember my youngest asking for my help with some lessons on credit cards and interest in Economics & Civics, and I remember my oldest being confused about a lesson dealing with health insurance. Thing is, students don't remember them because they aren't connected to things that are "real" in their lives at that moment!
Furthermore, during my senior year -- probably prompted by college decisions -- I became very aware that my parents weren't doing well financially partly because of bad choices. So I sought out information: I read all kinds of books about finances. Things about frugal living, things about investing. Today this information can be found on the internet, so it's easier than it was in the 80s.
For the right education, the current cost of college is a steal at twice the price. The worry is that it'll keep increasing until the cost is equal to the benefit, then we'll all be screwed.
Oh, you're completely right. My job isn't particularly high-paying, but I have "had back" every penny I paid for my education and more -- many, many times over. Ditto for my husband.
However, one of the other mistakes "we" are making today is suggesting to kids that ALL college degrees are equally valuable. In fact, during a college fair my husband was thrilled to speak to one of his old professors at the engineering table . . . and they commented to one another that the students were lined up at the adjacent theater table, while the engineering staff was just kind of standing around.