Author Topic: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?  (Read 30617 times)

Unionville

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What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« on: December 23, 2016, 04:05:08 PM »
In one article MMM recommends starting a blog if you want to make $50,000.  He says he makes 6 figures from this one.  I had a blog once with over 30,000 visitors a month -- but I don't have the slightest clue how I could have made money from it. Sure, I made some pocket change from Amazon links, but it was in no way an income.  Whenever I research the topic of blogging as a business, it's mostly all the scam get-rich-quick-by-blogging articles who are trying to sell me a package.

Is the main income from blogs from advertising? Anyone have experience on generating income from a blog?

mozar

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2016, 05:09:31 PM »
MMM himself does credit card referrals.

k_mcsparin

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2016, 05:24:06 PM »
MMM himself does credit card referrals.

Yipes.  That hurts to hear.  Don't want to encourage people to acquire debt. :(

chasesfish

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2016, 07:58:37 AM »
MMM himself does credit card referrals.

Yipes.  That hurts to hear.  Don't want to encourage people to acquire debt. :(

Reward Cards only...There's also a nice article on churning rewards cards for travel

I'm a red panda

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2016, 09:18:07 AM »
The friend I have with 6 figure blog income does it through referral links and sponsored posts.

Her blog used to be interesting content, now it is only a dressed up ad.

ender

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2016, 09:21:54 AM »
Her blog used to be interesting content, now it is only a dressed up ad.

That's kind of how a lot of MMM posts the last few years have felt.

Anyways, there are TONS of ads on the forum/main site that generate small amounts of revenue (not to mention referral stuff). If you use an adblocker you probably don't see them.

Tjat

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2016, 12:36:09 PM »
Her blog used to be interesting content, now it is only a dressed up ad.

That's kind of how a lot of MMM posts the last few years have felt.

Anyways, there are TONS of ads on the forum/main site that generate small amounts of revenue (not to mention referral stuff). If you use an adblocker you probably don't see them.

I agree. The only useful articles are in the early archives.  Now there is one article a month about either recycling, fancy plane trips where bloggers pat themselves on the back, and other Non financial topics. I think the blog is only active for residual income

FIRE me

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2016, 05:16:42 PM »
The friend I have with 6 figure blog income does it through referral links and sponsored posts.

Her blog used to be interesting content, now it is only a dressed up ad.

I like the Popehat approach to sponsored posts:

https://popehat.com/2012/03/13/like-spam-for-ponies/

Syonyk

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2016, 07:51:33 PM »
In one article MMM recommends starting a blog if you want to make $50,000.  He says he makes 6 figures from this one.

"I made a successful blog!" is the mother of all sampling biases...

Quote
Is the main income from blogs from advertising? Anyone have experience on generating income from a blog?

I generate beer money from mine on advertising, and some actual real income in the summer, through battery pack rebuilds (my blog serves as advertisement and SEO for that side business of mine).

The friend I have with 6 figure blog income does it through referral links and sponsored posts.

Her blog used to be interesting content, now it is only a dressed up ad.

Mmhmm.  They do end up that way.

Really, a blog is an inefficient way to earn radically less than minimum wage, unless you make it big, or have other purposes for it.  "Blogging to make money" is very, very tricky to break into.

I run mine to document projects, to force me to write more, and to drive battery pack rebuilds and other similar work my way.

The Money Monk

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2016, 08:09:04 PM »
There are only 2 ways to make money: you have to convince people to give you money, or you have to sell something.
That something can be advertising, but to really make serious money it normally needs to be a product.

The internet makes it easy to sell somebody else's products, with affiliate programs, and that is how many people make money on their blogs (ads and affiliate sales). But a good portion also sell their own products (ebooks, shirts and merchandise, or something similar).

Regardless of what your blog is about, there is going to be at least a few products associated with the topics you cover. Amazon is the easiest way, but the percentages are low. If possible you want to be making 15 to 20% on your affiliate sales. (Amazon is 4-7 usually).

Some content creators earn exclusively through donations (Patreon, or something similar).

MakingSenseofCents

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2016, 09:27:51 PM »
There is a blogger who is a member of this site who claims to make over $900 k per annum blogging.  I find it hard to believe. 

Here is the link:

http://www.makingsenseofcents.com/

Maybe she will respond to the thread and explain.  Basically it says she makes it all from affiliate links.

Yes, I earn around $100,000 from my business, which consists mainly of blogging. I share everything on my site in very thorough detail - I don't hide anything and I have no secrets.

waltworks

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2016, 12:49:50 PM »
There is a blogger who is a member of this site who claims to make over $900 k per annum blogging.  I find it hard to believe. 

Here is the link:

http://www.makingsenseofcents.com/

Maybe she will respond to the thread and explain.  Basically it says she makes it all from affiliate links.

Yes, I earn around $100,000 from my business, which consists mainly of blogging. I share everything on my site in very thorough detail - I don't hide anything and I have no secrets.

A quick read of the "blog":
-Lots of boilerplate repetition and "income reports".
-Lots of MLM-esque (ok, just MLM) "affiliate marketing" stuff.
-Many ads.

There is basically no context whatsoever that is not self-referential or promoting the "affiliate marketing" angle.

Just FYI for everyone. Don't waste your time.

-W

makinbutter

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2016, 01:18:36 PM »
There is a blogger who is a member of this site who claims to make over $900 k per annum blogging.  I find it hard to believe. 

Here is the link:

http://www.makingsenseofcents.com/

Maybe she will respond to the thread and explain.  Basically it says she makes it all from affiliate links.

Yes, I earn around $100,000 from my business, which consists mainly of blogging. I share everything on my site in very thorough detail - I don't hide anything and I have no secrets.

A quick read of the "blog":
-Lots of boilerplate repetition and "income reports".
-Lots of MLM-esque (ok, just MLM) "affiliate marketing" stuff.
-Many ads.

There is basically no context whatsoever that is not self-referential or promoting the "affiliate marketing" angle.

Just FYI for everyone. Don't waste your time.

-W

Ok, I've always wondered about the economics on this - I'll take it at face value that the author of the blog is not blowing smoke and that she truly does gross 100k per month.  Based on her income reports, she has to drive a massive amount of traffic to her little corner of the internet to get the advertising fees and (likely-expensive-although-in-fairness-I-didn't-check) sales on her affiliate marketing course.

If she had rich, engaging content, created over the span of years (see: Financial Samurai? Go Curry Cracker?) I could see someone getting those page views.  And those two have been writing for literally multiple years, producing well-researched, data-intensive, illuminating content.

But explain this to me - recent titles on the makingcents blog include "the best way to set goals in 2017" and "I still wear shirts that have holes in them."  WT actual F? 

Are people merely going to the blog (and driving up advertising revenue and course sales) purely because of the income reports?  I am reminded of a term I read on the comments section here a long time ago - the fictive dream.  People go to the MMM site (and, presumably, the makingcents site), because it has a shit-ton of revenue, and they have this dream that they, too, can get a shit-ton of revenue if only they emulate successful blog content (or, presumably, wear shirts with holes in them?).  But how does one get from, say, $0 in monthly revenue (where nobody will listen to what you're saying about monthly income reports) up to 100k in monthly revenue (at which point people start buying the dream you're selling)?  The comment section there is one person after another thanking the author for proving that it can be done, for giving them inspiration, for living the dream.

Someone explain this to me like I'm five - off the top of my head, the most-highly-compensated bloggers seem to just be shills for marketing courses or they gradually evolve their blogs into "here is how to make money blogging! be like me!".  I am reminded of the old saw about selling shovels during a gold rush.

Is there something more to this that I am missing?  I just can't grok that someone can sell 30k worth of affiliate marketing courses in a month UNLESS what they're really selling is the dream that the reader, too, can hit the jackpot.

I think I'll start a blog and just claim that I have 50k in monthly revenue from side projects, and if you pay me $19.99 you'll get the secrets, too!  In no time at all, I'll have 50k in customers, ne?

If the author truly is stacking 100 large each month, hot damn, well done, you have somehow tapped into the motherlode, and congrats.  I just don't get it - someone please explain in words that a five year old would understand what exactly those blogs provide.

waltworks

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2016, 01:27:37 PM »
Affiliate marketing just means you are signing people up for your "make money like me" class who will... sign people up for the "make money like me" class.

It's just a semi-pyramid scheme multilevel marketing thing. So you're not trying to generate interesting context (ie MMM blog), you're just getting money from suckers by "teaching" them how to... get money from other suckers. You know the "real estate investor seeks trainee $100k!" hand-written signs you see on the corner? Same idea. Get people to call in, pay for the "class", and then... they put up more signs trying to get other people.

Look, if you want to make money from blogging you are basically going to do it by being really popular (generating interesting original content) and then selling ads or directly promoting products/services for pay (ie credit card referral links). The MMM blog does both to some extent.

That's it. It's not complicated and anyone trying to sell you a class on how to do it/the magic formula is probably full of shit unless what they're teaching is creative writing/photo editing or some other actual skill that could be relevant.

If you have something interesting or useful to say, and you're good at writing/photography, you can probably make some money with a blog. How much will depend on how interesting you are and of course how lucky. If you are basically a normal person without any special skills/interests... probably not.

-W

Unionville

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2016, 01:39:01 PM »
Yes, I earn around $100,000 from my business, which consists mainly of blogging. I share everything on my site in very thorough detail - I don't hide anything and I have no secrets.

But is the income from affiliate links to Amazon?  Advertising?  I'm just curious of how a person really generates income.  Is there a struggle with the ethics of promoting products?

waltworks

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2016, 01:41:27 PM »
Ok, I've always wondered about the economics on this - I'll take it at face value that the author of the blog is not blowing smoke and that she truly does gross 100k per month.

I think this claim is probably rubbish - Occam's razor, and all. There is literally no content worth reading on the entire thing.

Besides, this MLM stuff just has no style. It's embarrassing to anyone who has ever watched The Sting or is a fan of The Music Man. If you're going to scam, scam with some style!

I'm going to just issue a good old-fashioned chain letter with a few minor modern updates (the last guy who didn't forward this letter had his credit card numbers all stolen by ISIS!) and watch the cash roll in!

A semi-serious aside - in the really wild early days of FTP-only internet in the 80s/90s there were actually email chain letter scams for a while. They didn't tend to work well because most of the people on the internet were PhD physicists and such, but now that everyone and their dog is online all day... plenty of suckers.

-W

csprof

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2016, 02:19:54 PM »

I also need this explained like a 5 year old.  I thought an affiliate link meant that once you clicked through then the blogger gets paid.  If you actually buy they get paid more.  I think what you are referencing are eBooks where I show you how and you pay for it. 

Maybe I am just confused.

No, you're close to correct. The key thing about affiliate marketing is that the content publisher usually only gets paid if the user buys something. Display advertising , in contrast, is more likely to pay on a per-impression or per-click basis.

One unsavory sub-catrgory of affiliate marketing is the multi-level schemes, which are what was described above, in which people get a cut of the sales generated by people they recruit to being advertisers. Yucky stuff in general.

Posting interesting content with links to amazon products, for example, is standard affiliate marketing, as are MMM's credit card referrals. The ads that apparently appear on this forum are display advertising, typically done through Google/DoubleClick/etc.


The Money Monk

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2016, 02:22:04 PM »
Sadly I have to agree with you Waltworks on the content.  I went on it and read some stuff and I could not for the life of me put two and two together. 

I am relatively new to MMM.  I started reading his stuff in May and finished it all in about 3 weeks.  His stuff on the other hand I was like 'holy shit, this is fantastic'.  I guess the people who have read since the beginning has seen a gradual decline in his slant toward financial information.  I don't really care. 

You're missing the point. It doesn't really matter how good your content is, that isn't what makes you money. MMM's content is great, but until he started selling something he wasn't making very much money, no matter how many people read it and thought it was great.

there was an article not long ago about a guy who gave up on blogging because he was "only" making like 1000 bucks a month, even though his website was getting over a million views in that time period. He as making money ONLY from advertising.

People who dont think its possible to make a lot of money from a blog typically rely only on adsense, and MAYBE some low percentage affiliate sales like amazon.

The sites that make a ton of money are all selling high-precentage affiliate products - things that give them dozens or even hundreds of dollars PER SALE.

Credit cards giving $40 to $150 per person you get signed up
Hosting companies like blue host or Hostgator that pay $50 per person you sign up
Marketing courses and seminars that sometimes pay even more than that
software, etc.

So the aforementioned blogger got $1000 from 1.4 million viewers - while the 'salesman' might make that from successfully selling his affiliate product to less than a dozen people. Which even with a 1% conversion rate you could do with monthly audience of a measly 1200 readers

So the TL;DR version - the ones that make money are selling products that pay surprisingly high affiliate bonuses, they aren't necessarily producing content that is "better" than sites making less money.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2016, 02:25:27 PM by The Money Monk »

I'm a red panda

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2016, 02:30:11 PM »
Yes, I earn around $100,000 from my business, which consists mainly of blogging. I share everything on my site in very thorough detail - I don't hide anything and I have no secrets.

But is the income from affiliate links to Amazon?  Advertising?  I'm just curious of how a person really generates income.  Is there a struggle with the ethics of promoting products?

I'm not sure about Amazon, but some affiliate programs (like rstyle or like it) there is a cookie from the click through and you get credit if they buy anything, not just the linked product.

csprof

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #19 on: December 26, 2016, 02:33:39 PM »
One way to paraphrase that: different blog topics have different monetization potential. It turns out that personal finance blogging can be fairly lucrative for popular authors, in large part because of CC referrals.

I blog about topics of interest to computer scientists, mostly PhDs. I let Google show display ads on my blog for the heck of it. I think that in a usual month, I make $2.  Grin. (needless to say, I don't blog for profit. I view it as part of my day job of communicating research results and advancing knowledge about my area of work.  The ads are mostly for kicks, as a way to understand first-hand the process.).

If you want to make money blogging, you should research in advance your monetization strategy. For many people/businesses, for example, a blog is a form of advertising - "hey, we're experts in this, and here's proof ."

[edited to correct silly typos from posting from mobile]
« Last Edit: December 26, 2016, 09:07:25 PM by csprof »

The Money Monk

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #20 on: December 26, 2016, 02:37:53 PM »
Yes, I earn around $100,000 from my business, which consists mainly of blogging. I share everything on my site in very thorough detail - I don't hide anything and I have no secrets.

But is the income from affiliate links to Amazon?  Advertising?  I'm just curious of how a person really generates income.  Is there a struggle with the ethics of promoting products?





I'm not sure about Amazon, but some affiliate programs (like rstyle or like it) there is a cookie from the click through and you get credit if they buy anything, not just the linked product.

Yes, Amazon is like this, and so are many other affiliate programs. Also, many have 30 days cookies, so even if the person you referred doesn't buy something right away, if they return to the site within 15 or 30 days you still get credit for the sale.

Syonyk

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #21 on: December 26, 2016, 02:45:36 PM »
If you want to make money blogging, you should research in advance your monetization strategy. For many people/businesses, for example, a blog is a form of advertising - "hey, we're experts in this, and here's proof ."

^^ Definitely my case.  I've made several thousand dollars worth of ebike battery rebuild sales based on my blog, which radically exceeds even my best month for advertising (about 80% of my blog's traffic so far came in one week).

I've tried to do a bit of affiliate linking on eBay, and that tosses some coin my way on product teardowns I do as well.  I may work on doing more of those in the future, since they're interesting.

But, really, my "monetization" plan for my blog is about 5 years of high quality content, then start selling ebooks and such.  I'm generally making more each month than I did the previous month (I've been getting 20k-30k views a month), so things are headed in the right direction, but I have zero interest in trying to "cash out" at this point, or anything remotely related to that.  It's beer money, for now, and pays for the occasional bit of office hardware.

MakingSenseofCents

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #22 on: December 26, 2016, 03:44:34 PM »
^ The point of this thread was not to identify blogs that you find interesting.  The point was about how to make money from blogging. 

I am curious from the author of the blog just how the affiliate marketing works.  I don't have a blog but I read blogs like most people on this this forum.  When I go on your site I look at the comments sections as a barometer on how many people are reading your blog.  When I see an article there are about 25 comments.  On the other hand when I read a MMM after maybe a day after release there are literally hundreds of comments.  His posts seem to top out at 300.  I get it.  There are a lot of people that post to MMM because they want to promote their own blogs.  However, there are still a tun of comments from random people.

So the question is simple.  How does affiliate marketing work if you aren't getting eyeballs to your site?  Are people coming to the site and just not commenting.  I know I rarely comment but there has to be some kind of correlation between readers and comments.

Comments don't always translate to page views - I know many blogs who receive less than 100,000 page views and get tons of comments. On the other end, I know of many blogs who receive millions of page views a month and receive hardly no comments. I don't receive anywhere near as many page views as MMM, but I do get a "good" amount. I do receive a good amount of emails from readers after each blog post is published - mainly those without blogs who would rather email me.

MonkeyJenga

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #23 on: December 26, 2016, 03:47:03 PM »
What I wasn't putting together, and still may not be is the lack of content.  The content IMHO drives page views, which drives the affiliate links which drives the income.

SEO drives page views.

MakingSenseofCents

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #24 on: December 26, 2016, 04:03:28 PM »
What I wasn't putting together, and still may not be is the lack of content.  The content IMHO drives page views, which drives the affiliate links which drives the income.

SEO drives page views.

Thanks for this acronym.  Had to google it to refresh what it meant.  I found the blog we are discussing from the bottom of her signature here on the forum so I didn't fall into this category.  It seems in this world of personal finance blogs there is also a lot of spin off traffic where bloggers promote one another. It's how I found many other blogs I read with some frequency.  I'm sure this is a topic/strategy that's discussed at the blogger's conference.

Thanks also the MakingSenseofCents for your reply.

No problem. Always looking to improve my content so thanks everyone for your feedback. I do help many people with my content and blog, but I know there's always room for improvement.

makinbutter

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #25 on: December 26, 2016, 04:56:45 PM »
Here's my concern with basically ALL of the financial independence / early retirement blogosphere (and apologies to Michelle, who has taken an audacious step out of anonymity to blog - it is much easier to destroy than create, etc. etc. - as the exemplar I am using for this criticism, but her blog's name has come up in this thread).

MMM was, arguably and to my knowledge, one of the first FI/FIRE blogs out there, and when he posted articles like "here are 50 ways to earn 50k without a degree," that was novel content.  His earlier stuff was excellent, too - I have the "stupidly simple math to early retirement" bookmarked around here.  Newer blogs tend to rehash the same material in a boring and derivative way.  There are only so many times you can write "here are 50 side hustles you can do from home!".

In my mind, newer blogs have to distinguish themselves from what already exists by providing one of the following things:

1) saying the same thing but saying it in a more interesting way;
2) crushing data that other bloggers would shy away from;
3) totally new, engaging content;
4) a personal story that hooks their readership.

So, when I see articles like Michelle's "10 ways I've made extra money" (http://www.makingsenseofcents.com/2014/10/10-things-ive-done-to-make-extra-money.html), I have to take a second and say... what the ffffffffuuuuuuck?  Sold soft drinks in high school? Entered giveaways?  This content is really, really light.

Contrast that to someone like MadFIentist or GoCurryCracker, who dig elbows deep into the tax code and crank out statistical analysis that would make a mathematics prof proud.  That is engaging, useful content. 

What still baffles me about this is that despite the level of light content, makingcents is - per the author's public claim - making nearly $1MM a year gross.  That is bat-shit high level of money, and the only conclusion I can come up with is that the author sells a dream.  "Be like me, and you, too, can bring in the big bucks!"  But kudos to her, because people are apparently buying what she is selling.


MakingSenseofCents

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #26 on: December 26, 2016, 06:08:16 PM »
Here's my concern with basically ALL of the financial independence / early retirement blogosphere (and apologies to Michelle, who has taken an audacious step out of anonymity to blog - it is much easier to destroy than create, etc. etc. - as the exemplar I am using for this criticism, but her blog's name has come up in this thread).

MMM was, arguably and to my knowledge, one of the first FI/FIRE blogs out there, and when he posted articles like "here are 50 ways to earn 50k without a degree," that was novel content.  His earlier stuff was excellent, too - I have the "stupidly simple math to early retirement" bookmarked around here.  Newer blogs tend to rehash the same material in a boring and derivative way.  There are only so many times you can write "here are 50 side hustles you can do from home!".

In my mind, newer blogs have to distinguish themselves from what already exists by providing one of the following things:

1) saying the same thing but saying it in a more interesting way;
2) crushing data that other bloggers would shy away from;
3) totally new, engaging content;
4) a personal story that hooks their readership.

So, when I see articles like Michelle's "10 ways I've made extra money" (http://www.makingsenseofcents.com/2014/10/10-things-ive-done-to-make-extra-money.html), I have to take a second and say... what the ffffffffuuuuuuck?  Sold soft drinks in high school? Entered giveaways?  This content is really, really light.

Contrast that to someone like MadFIentist or GoCurryCracker, who dig elbows deep into the tax code and crank out statistical analysis that would make a mathematics prof proud.  That is engaging, useful content. 

What still baffles me about this is that despite the level of light content, makingcents is - per the author's public claim - making nearly $1MM a year gross.  That is bat-shit high level of money, and the only conclusion I can come up with is that the author sells a dream.  "Be like me, and you, too, can bring in the big bucks!"  But kudos to her, because people are apparently buying what she is selling.

This will be my last comment on this thread, but I do want to say that there are many types of blogs and blog posts that exist. I've been blogging for 5.5 years, and I have all sorts of content with varying lengths and topics. I have helped many people improve their financial situation with my blog, and my main readership base is not FI/early retirement -it's people who are looking to take charge of their financial situation, finally get out of debt, and learn how to manage their money. While some may see the content as "light," others see it as overwhelming. I'm trying to help the average person figure out their money problem.

CloserToFree

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #27 on: December 26, 2016, 06:14:18 PM »
Posting to follow. 

waltworks

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #28 on: December 26, 2016, 08:01:57 PM »
Ok, MakingCents - why not post a link (or just the text) of the post you feel is most useful or that you're most proud of on your site? I couldn't find anything vaguely interesting or useful but I only spent a few minutes clicking around, maybe I didn't find it. It certainly wouldn't be the first time (ask my wife!) I couldn't find something in plain view.

-W

The Money Monk

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #29 on: December 26, 2016, 08:13:37 PM »
Here's my concern with basically ALL of the financial independence / early retirement blogosphere (and apologies to Michelle, who has taken an audacious step out of anonymity to blog - it is much easier to destroy than create, etc. etc. - as the exemplar I am using for this criticism, but her blog's name has come up in this thread).

MMM was, arguably and to my knowledge, one of the first FI/FIRE blogs out there, and when he posted articles like "here are 50 ways to earn 50k without a degree," that was novel content.  His earlier stuff was excellent, too - I have the "stupidly simple math to early retirement" bookmarked around here.  Newer blogs tend to rehash the same material in a boring and derivative way.  There are only so many times you can write "here are 50 side hustles you can do from home!".

In my mind, newer blogs have to distinguish themselves from what already exists by providing one of the following things:

1) saying the same thing but saying it in a more interesting way;
2) crushing data that other bloggers would shy away from;
3) totally new, engaging content;
4) a personal story that hooks their readership.

So, when I see articles like Michelle's "10 ways I've made extra money" (http://www.makingsenseofcents.com/2014/10/10-things-ive-done-to-make-extra-money.html), I have to take a second and say... what the ffffffffuuuuuuck?  Sold soft drinks in high school? Entered giveaways?  This content is really, really light.

Contrast that to someone like MadFIentist or GoCurryCracker, who dig elbows deep into the tax code and crank out statistical analysis that would make a mathematics prof proud.  That is engaging, useful content. 

What still baffles me about this is that despite the level of light content, makingcents is - per the author's public claim - making nearly $1MM a year gross.  That is bat-shit high level of money, and the only conclusion I can come up with is that the author sells a dream.  "Be like me, and you, too, can bring in the big bucks!"  But kudos to her, because people are apparently buying what she is selling.

This will be my last comment on this thread, but I do want to say that there are many types of blogs and blog posts that exist. I've been blogging for 5.5 years, and I have all sorts of content with varying lengths and topics. I have helped many people improve their financial situation with my blog, and my main readership base is not FI/early retirement -it's people who are looking to take charge of their financial situation, finally get out of debt, and learn how to manage their money. While some may see the content as "light," others see it as overwhelming. I'm trying to help the average person figure out their money problem.

I don't undestand the hostility for your site. Seems like sour grapes to me. They don't think you 'deserve' to be making that much money because in their opinion your content isn't better than sites making less. Pathetic, scarcity mindset.

If somebody makes 10 million a year writing about lighting their own farts, who gives a fuck? Obviously its creating value for somebody.
Unless a blogger is actually being deceptive (scamming or lying) who cares what they are writing about or selling?

And this idea that a blogger shouldn't write unless it is better than all previous attempts or totally original, gimme a break. What if someboy just wants to write something? They shouldn't because YOU don't approve? get over yourselves.

More power to you makingsense, I wish I was making a tenth of that from my online efforts.

The Money Monk

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #30 on: December 26, 2016, 08:15:11 PM »
Ok, MakingCents - why not post a link (or just the text) of the post you feel is most useful or that you're most proud of on your site? I couldn't find anything vaguely interesting or useful but I only spent a few minutes clicking around, maybe I didn't find it. It certainly wouldn't be the first time (ask my wife!) I couldn't find something in plain view.

-W

Why? so you can tear it apart and explain how she doesn't deserve to make so much money with something YOU don't personally get value out of? get over yourself and your sour grapes.

I'm a red panda

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #31 on: December 26, 2016, 08:35:51 PM »
Ok, MakingCents - why not post a link (or just the text) of the post you feel is most useful or that you're most proud of on your site? I couldn't find anything vaguely interesting or useful but I only spent a few minutes clicking around, maybe I didn't find it. It certainly wouldn't be the first time (ask my wife!) I couldn't find something in plain view.

-W

What would be the point of this? It has already been explained that uber frugal savers aren't the target of the blog. Possibly NONE of the content would be interesting to you. Clearly it is interestingr to someone else or it wouldn't be earning income.

« Last Edit: December 27, 2016, 06:10:54 AM by iowajes »

pbkmaine

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #32 on: December 26, 2016, 08:47:24 PM »
It does sound like sour grapes to me. It's a great accomplishment to build a successful enterprise. Kudos to Makingsenseofcents.

waltworks

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #33 on: December 26, 2016, 08:52:55 PM »
Not sour grapes at all, good on you if you're making money. My complaint is not that I don't *like* the content - it's that there basically does not appear to *be* content. Most of the links just go in circles between near-identical pages or regurgitate the same information (ie, "how can I get rich" leads to "how to make a blog" which leads to "how to get rich with a blog" leads to "how to make a blog" sort of stuff). There are plenty of reminders to use affiliate links, though.

As I said, I may just not get it. But it seems like the empty shell of a website with a TON of ads and big promises and some very vaguely worded motivational-speaker boilerplate about self-actualization.

Then again, maybe I am giving the human race too much credit here.

-W

MonkeyJenga

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #34 on: December 26, 2016, 10:21:57 PM »
I think MMM is purposefully avoiding this trajectory, because he doesn't really NEED the money.  He is probably going to do what Jakob did with ERE -- continue to put out the occasional blog post every couple of months when the mood strikes him, and eventually stop posting new content.   I just hope he doesn't pull the plug on the forums.  Went through that painful process with the Simple Living Network several years ago, and the community was really decimated -- the forums still exist in another format, and I visit occasionally, but without the larger site to feed new members, it has become a sad shadow of its former robust self.

All the more reason for people to participate in the Official MJ Disaster Recovery Plan! :)

gerardc

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #35 on: December 27, 2016, 12:30:41 AM »
I don't believe the $1.2m/year claim. Come on, how credible would it be for a self-proclaimed expert on getting rich online with blogging to only a make $20k/year? Some people really have no scruples -- they have a "fake it till you make it" mentality and wil lie through their teeth in the name of "marketing". My guess is that this lie increases their revenue from 20k/year to 22k, so they do it. Simple as that.

arebelspy

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #36 on: December 27, 2016, 03:24:06 AM »
Scamming people is not business acumen.

A business plan of "a fool and his money are soon parted" is not to be lauded, IMO.

So let's bifricate it:
Can you earn money telling others how they can earn money, in a way that will never actually scale, such that the majority of your readers lose way more value than they gain?

Yes. Definitely.

BUT, the more important question, IMO: Can you make money from blogging while providing quality content such that your readers get more in value?  Absolutely.

Someone learning about a product they didn't know existed and buying it via an Amazon affiliate link is a value added proposition.  Someone getting a reward card they wouldn't have known about, and avoiding debt but making money on the proposition while the blogger gets a referral fee is a win-win.

Blogs CAN make money, and in ethical ways.

That's the more interesting discussion, IMO. That's hopefully where this conversation will steer, away from an unsustainable business model where people end up disappointed and towards a path of providing lots of value in the long run.
I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about me, this Business Insider profile tells the story pretty well.
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iris lily

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #37 on: December 27, 2016, 09:03:06 AM »
I don't believe the $1.2m/year claim. Come on, how credible would it be for a self-proclaimed expert on getting rich online with blogging to only a make $20k/year? Some people really have no scruples -- they have a "fake it till you make it" mentality and wil lie through their teeth in the name of "marketing". My guess is that this lie increases their revenue from 20k/year to 22k, so they do it. Simple as that.
I agree that the numbers are likely exagerated.

On this site a couple of years ago there was a thread on the Anti-Mustachian Wall of
Shame board

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/this-blog-entry-oh-boy/

...that featured a blogger who was  more of a "business coach" but who really just sold her programs about how to sell business coaching programs. I signed up for her social media accounts and watched/listened to her for 6 months. I never saw evidence of the big money she claimed to make, but granted, I dont have the tools to evaluate that.

When she wrote a book and said it was a "bestseller" along within her other "bestseller" titles, that is easy to evaluate. There was no legitimate measure that showed her to be a bestselling author. . There are, apparently (what I learned from reading her posts on social media)  schemes involving giveaways to propel digital books into onto the top of self-published book lists on a specific topic for a day or two, and hence the "bestseller" status.

What I liked about this particular social media millionaire is her love of travel. She liked to travel the world, so that kept me interested.

And a $20,000 income in Missouri where the MakingSense blog is based is like $100,000 in
Mannattan. So maybe we are just seeing income reports that are "normalized." Haha.

« Last Edit: December 27, 2016, 09:25:29 AM by iris lily »

Icecreamarsenal

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #38 on: December 27, 2016, 09:13:49 AM »
Those who can do, those who can't, talk about it ad nauseum on forums.  Good job on the blogger for the beacoup bucks.


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iris lily

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #39 on: December 27, 2016, 09:24:40 AM »
Those who can do, those who can't, talk about it ad nauseum on forums.  Good job on the blogger for the beacoup bucks.


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Haha, that is true as well.

Cpa Cat

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #40 on: December 27, 2016, 09:34:44 AM »
I have a client who makes a fairly variable income - anywhere from $100k to $400k one year - selling online courses about how to get rich from day trading. But when I asked him where his 1099s were for his investment accounts, he said he didn't trust the stock market and felt investing was a "scam." No taxable, no retirement accounts, nothing. He's a total cash-under-the-mattress type of guy.

My mind still reels at how much people are willing pay to an internet personality who has 0 real life credibility.

The Money Monk

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #41 on: December 27, 2016, 11:00:25 PM »
Scamming people is not business acumen.

A business plan of "a fool and his money are soon parted" is not to be lauded, IMO.

So let's bifricate it:
Can you earn money telling others how they can earn money, in a way that will never actually scale, such that the majority of your readers lose way more value than they gain?

Yes. Definitely.

BUT, the more important question, IMO: Can you make money from blogging while providing quality content such that your readers get more in value?  Absolutely.

Someone learning about a product they didn't know existed and buying it via an Amazon affiliate link is a value added proposition.  Someone getting a reward card they wouldn't have known about, and avoiding debt but making money on the proposition while the blogger gets a referral fee is a win-win.

Blogs CAN make money, and in ethical ways.

That's the more interesting discussion, IMO. That's hopefully where this conversation will steer, away from an unsustainable business model where people end up disappointed and towards a path of providing lots of value in the long run.

the biggest chunk of her revenue is affilate sales from bluehost - a web hosting company. That's a real product/service - hardly a scam. Various others are softwares, uber referrals, etc. The second biggest revenue source is her course on how she makes money with affiliate sales. Since she obvious does - something like like 60k a month NOT including her course, i would say she could charge for teaching people how to do what she does. Where is the scam?

saying somebody is a scammer is significant accusation, and I think you should either  post proof that she is lying, or shut your mouthMOD NOTE: The above quote does not target a specific person. Let's keep the discussion civil and productive.

« Last Edit: December 28, 2016, 12:12:04 PM by swick »

arebelspy

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #42 on: December 27, 2016, 11:20:12 PM »
Plenty of multilevel marketing pyramid schemes have an actual product they sell. That doesn't make them ethical.

Just because the affiliate link is to a product doesn't make it not a scam.

If I tell people "You can make $100,000 a month blogging, sign up for Bluehost here (affiliate link)," I'm not selling a product, like you claim. I'm selling a hope. A dream.

Like I said:
Can you earn money telling others how they can earn money, in a way that will never actually scale, such that the majority of your readers lose way more value than they gain?

Yes. Definitely.

If I sell all these people on the dream of passive income, but the reality is that it doesn't scale, and literally isn't possible for all these people to do it, such that the vast majority are guaranteed to be disappointed and it's a value reduced proposition, that, in my mind, is a scam.

Maybe you wouldn't use that word.

I don't care to quibble over semantics of the word scam, I think I've sufficiently explained what I mean by the word. Substitute in a different word that better fits the above explanation if you want.  Shilling, maybe?  How about a tout, instead of a scammer?  Whatever.

My point is that you aren't helping people, you're hurting them. And that's lose-lose, even if it does fatten your bank account.

Plenty of bloggers exist who provide value.  Plenty that don't.

Both can make money. Sometimes wildly so.

The easier path is to shill. The harder path is to provide content, and value, and help people.

I'm interested in the ones that do this, and more hoping this thread goes in that direction, rather than discussing how to make money by telling people how to make money telling people how to make money.

I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about me, this Business Insider profile tells the story pretty well.
I (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out the Now page to see what I'm up to currently.

arebelspy

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #43 on: December 27, 2016, 11:29:12 PM »
Oh, and for the record, I don't believe her.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. She's provided none. Therefore the default position should be skepticism.

I myself posted an outlandish claim about a side gig where you can earn $1000/hour, $20k-40k/yr while working an few hours a MONTH.

That is a stupid claim, and immediately everyone should call BS.  Realizing this, I explained it, backed it up with numbers, examples, and posted proof of my bank deposits.

Then other Mustachians started doing it, and now the proof is dozens of us confirming it is real, not a scam.

Cool, crazy claim, lots of evidence for it.

Hers?  Not so much.

But even if she gave me her affiliate logins and bank accounts today, and I verified it was all real, that's completely irrelevant to my above point.

While I don't believe her, even if she IS making what she claims, all of the above post is true--the readers aren't improving their lives, they're getting sold on a dream, wasting money and time on that dream, and ending disappointed.

I'm sure exceptions occur to this, but that's the average.

I'd be willing to wager good sums of money that the net profit of the median person who buys her course, one year later, is negative.
I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about me, this Business Insider profile tells the story pretty well.
I (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out the Now page to see what I'm up to currently.

arebelspy

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #44 on: December 27, 2016, 11:33:58 PM »
Getting us back on topic, and to the more interesting one, let's look at a blog that makes plenty, and provides value, GCC.

He recently posted about why everyone should blog.

Some are monetary reasons, some not.

In this post:

He details their income:
http://www.gocurrycracker.com/accidental-income-blogging/

They made, per year, $0, $0, $2000, and then $25,000 for the first half of the 4th year.  Since it was scaling up, I'm sure the second half was much more, and since that was two years ago, I wouldn't be surprised if he's in the six-figure plus range.

There's a lot of quality content there, lots to learn and lots of value, and he's making good money.

Win-win.
I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about me, this Business Insider profile tells the story pretty well.
I (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out the Now page to see what I'm up to currently.

FrugalZony

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #45 on: December 27, 2016, 11:54:03 PM »
It's funny that this is coming up now in this context, as I have started to write a blog post about some of these "how to make money online" claims and then decided not to publish it as I did not want to sound like sour grapes.

A lot of these "sign up here" and "fill in a survey there" are indeed selling the "make easy money" dream to people.
And whereas the folks who are desperately seeking a little extra, spend a lot of time filling out these things and make peanuts,
the real money is made in the referral fees on the blog. Which is exactly what you guys are calling "selling the dream"
I have access to many of these survey links and such (I have accounts on several affiliate networks) and I only make pennies on my blog, because
I don't want to tout those links, because I'd feel I'd be knowingly exploiting someone's hope.

I at some point was thinking about posting an experiment where I have someone use all the links to sign up and compare their "income" to the
affiliate income associated with their signup. Then later donating the money made in the progress. But I ended up killing the idea, because I am pretty sure
it's against the operating agreement.

Knowing what I know about affiliate marketing, it often irks me, what I see on some blogs. But I usually just don't want to say anything because
I don't want to appear "just jealous" because I am not so successful myself.

Do I wish I'd make a bit more money blogging. Sure do, especially now that I started Trial Fire and really don't want to go back to my previous job, LOL.
But that was not the initial motivation of starting a blog.

financialfreedomsloth

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #46 on: December 28, 2016, 01:24:37 AM »
This content is really, really light.
I think there is actally a bigger audience for light content than there is for the more heavier, serious content. I mean, magazines about celebraties and such outsell serious business magazines by a 10 fold. Womens magazines - who are in my view nothing more then glorified add pages - are in my country one of the few paper magazines retaining most of their readers. It is not content for me, neither is makingsense of cents but so what? Lots of people do like it and to each his/her own.

Contrast that to someone like MadFIentist or GoCurryCracker, who dig elbows deep into the tax code and crank out statistical analysis that would make a mathematics prof proud.  That is engaging, useful content.

engaging to you, for others it will be to heavy, too complex, too philosophical, too whatever. Do I like that stuff? Hell yeah! Would my girlfriend? Probably not, she would probably like makingsense of cents better

What still baffles me about this is that despite the level of light content, makingcents is - per the author's public claim - making nearly $1MM a year gross.  That is bat-shit high level of money, and the only conclusion I can come up with is that the author sells a dream.

No she is not. She offers advice in a easy digestible format, aimed at the average joe who would like to be a bit more responsible with money, make a buck extra left or right. She is honest about her affiliated links and I can not see any way she is 'scamming' people in any way. If she can make money off it this way, great for her!

How about asking her questions and learn something instead of jumping to conclusions (and judging) after visiting her site for 5 minutes?

How did you start out? how did you grow your public? how is the income devided between advertising, affiliated links, ... how do you chose which affiliated links to put on your site? how much time a week do you devote to your blog? what are the most important lessons you have learned from blogging for a few years now? Hell, it might even be on her site allready ....

Tjat

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What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #47 on: December 28, 2016, 07:33:51 AM »
Sounds exactly like Trump University.... would people seriously argue that is not a scam?

Arebelspy and Walt are spot on here.


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skinnyindy

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #48 on: December 28, 2016, 11:18:21 AM »
So is it possible to blog with higher level content and make the 50k MMM was talking about?  Does anyone here do that?

makinbutter

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Re: What is the real truth about making money from a blog?
« Reply #49 on: December 28, 2016, 03:21:10 PM »
So is it possible to blog with higher level content and make the 50k MMM was talking about?  Does anyone here do that?

I would argue that Financial Samurai and Go Curry Cracker likely fit that bill.  Both provide informative content beyond "if you want to make money blogging, take my course on how to make money blogging! And then you can tell other people how to make money blogging!".  I don't know for sure, but I would assume that MADFIentist likely makes a decent chunk of change from his blogging efforts. 

Granted, could some of those guys have made more if they just spend their time learning to code or becoming a plumber? Absolutely.  Blogging is not typically a linear scale for effort and income.

What irks me - and hit me with your best shot / call this a scarcity mindset / etc - is that *I PERSONALLY FEEL* there is little value to blogs that say ANY variation of "I am a successful blogger.  If you emulate me, you, too, can be a successful blogger, telling other people how to be successful bloggers."  Can those blogs make money selling the dream that blogging=lucrative to their readership?  ABSOLUTELY they can.  But will their readers ever see those kinds of returns, or are they buying a dream that mathematically can't pan out for everyone...?

Contrast this to someone like GCC or the folks over at millenial-revolution detailing their penny-pinching over the course of a ten+ year career, and then saying "well, we made enough to call it quits, so we called it quits," and then writing about it.  That drives eyeballs to their site, and there is some underlying content BEYOND the "follow me to the land of blogging milk and honey...!".  I don't know that "scam" is the right word, but something about the "follow meeeeeeeee" model doesn't sit right with me.  Obviously it's bringing in the big bucksssss for the authors (and not just the blog in question), but scalability is, as ARS pointed out, a concern.

When I see a new blog writing about "I quit my day job and became a freelancer!  I drove uber!  I rented out a spare room in my house on AirBNB!" on another listicle about "TEN NEW WAYS TO MAKE MONEY FROM HOME", I cringe.  Where's the value-add here?

Anyhow, you're free to disagree. This is the Internet where everyone is an expert in everything.  In fact, I KNOW JUST THIS ONE TRICK TO SLAY YOUR MORTGAGE AND BANKERS HATE ME, and if you'll just sign up for my newsletter, you can start getting rich rich rich and say good-bye to that boring 9-5!  ;)

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!