Author Topic: What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?  (Read 14412 times)

MrCash

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What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?
« on: March 25, 2014, 03:18:50 PM »
For those who are financially independence or retired early, can you give us a breakdown of a typical day for you?  How many hours in the day do you spend doing different things?

MDM

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Re: What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2014, 04:38:16 PM »
The best part is not having a typical day.  Without the structure imposed by a work schedule, we can do "whatever" we want.  Not completely so, as children's school schedules do impose some structure, but much more than when working.

Definitely more time available (and used) to exercise, read, cook, volunteer, do-it-yourself projects, garden, ...and probably some I'm forgetting.

Have heard some people say "my job defines who I am."  If so, FIRE would be difficult.  While we enjoyed the intellectual challenges (and yes, the pay) from the jobs, they didn't define us. 

Cassie

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Re: What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2014, 04:42:08 PM »
Read, cook, volunteer, knit scarves for the homeless, watch some TV, do errands for friends that are too busy to do themselves, take friends to doc appts when they can't do it themselves, vacations. I also work for myself about 10 hours per week because I really missed the intellectual stimulation of working.

Exflyboy

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Re: What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2014, 07:22:25 PM »
I have only been FIRE'd for 10 weeks and I can tell you its a heck of a transition.

First off every day after I wake up at 8:30am I realise I would have gotten out of bed 4 hours before on a typical workday!!!!

Then I do some chores think about cooking for thr evening meal then get on with household projects, go fishining or anything else.

Its not easy though

Frank

MrCash

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Re: What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2014, 08:22:20 PM »
I have only been FIRE'd for 10 weeks and I can tell you its a heck of a transition.

First off every day after I wake up at 8:30am I realise I would have gotten out of bed 4 hours before on a typical workday!!!!

Then I do some chores think about cooking for thr evening meal then get on with household projects, go fishining or anything else.

Its not easy though

Frank

Why do you say it's not easy?

Khan

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Re: What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2014, 08:26:02 PM »
I have only been FIRE'd for 10 weeks and I can tell you its a heck of a transition.

First off every day after I wake up at 8:30am I realise I would have gotten out of bed 4 hours before on a typical workday!!!!

Then I do some chores think about cooking for thr evening meal then get on with household projects, go fishining or anything else.

Its not easy though

Frank

Why do you say it's not easy?

Sometimes the fish fight back?

wtjbatman

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Re: What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2014, 08:47:21 PM »
I have only been FIRE'd for 10 weeks and I can tell you its a heck of a transition.

First off every day after I wake up at 8:30am I realise I would have gotten out of bed 4 hours before on a typical workday!!!!

Then I do some chores think about cooking for thr evening meal then get on with household projects, go fishining or anything else.

Its not easy though

Frank

Why do you say it's not easy?

Sometimes the fish fight back?

He was the size of a god damn buick, and I woulda had him if you hadn't shown up.

Eric

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Re: What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2014, 08:55:38 PM »
I have only been FIRE'd for 10 weeks and I can tell you its a heck of a transition.

First off every day after I wake up at 8:30am I realise I would have gotten out of bed 4 hours before on a typical workday!!!!

Then I do some chores think about cooking for thr evening meal then get on with household projects, go fishining or anything else.

Its not easy though

Frank

Why do you say it's not easy?

Sometimes the fish fight back?

He was the size of a god damn buick, and I woulda had him if you hadn't shown up.

General Sherman?

spoonman

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Re: What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2014, 09:10:13 PM »
I hope to check back on this thread 5-6 months from now and let you know what I find.  One thing is for certain: I predict that we will outlaw alarms in our house.

Nords

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Re: What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2014, 09:52:50 PM »
For those who are financially independence or retired early, can you give us a breakdown of a typical day for you?  How many hours in the day do you spend doing different things?
"Every day is Saturday, every night is Friday night."
http://the-military-guide.com/2010/09/08/but-but-but-what-will-i-do-all-day/
http://the-military-guide.com/2010/10/14/myths-of-military-retirement-and-early-retirement/

I'm usually awake by 3-4 AM.  I literally start each morning with the surf forecast, and I paddle out 2-3x/week for 2-3 hours each.  There's almost always surf on the north or south shores, although some weeks it's too big up north and too small down south.  Once or twice a year it's flat all around the island.

Once I know what I'll be doing at dawn, I spend at least 20 minutes writing.  I do it every day (even when I don't feel particularly inspired) and often end up going longer than 20 minutes.  (Writer's block is a self-inflicted myth.)  Usually I split the time between a blog post and the latest book project.

If I'm not surfing that morning then I'll get in some bodyweight exercise, or we'll have heavy yardwork waiting for us.  There's almost always a project in the works with my spouse:  home improvement, maintenance, repair, or just cleaning out the attic/closets.  (This week it's window cleaning & grooming.  Oboy!)  We visit our rental property every six weeks to do yardwork and maintenance/repairs.  We try to limit all of this to an hour or two.  We don't have to spend all day doing chores & running errands anymore, so we avoid that whenever possible.  We also try to do the outside work in the mornings so that we can spend the hotter afternoons/evenings inside.

We tend to run errands on weekday mornings:  groceries, library, shopping, ATM.  The stores are less crowded, the clerks are relaxed & chatty, and we can get more done in less time.  We stay away from the stores (and off the roads) on weekends, holidays, and rush hours.  When I get caught in rush hour I can't believe that I used to live like that 10x/week.

I used to nap for 30-60 minutes almost every day after lunch, but recently that seems to be declining.  Maybe it's more protein at lunch, fewer carbs.

During afternoons & evenings I'll read the local/global news sites, social media, and e-mail for a couple hours.  I probably spend 30-60 minutes/day e-mailing with other bloggers or answering reader questions.  I try to check this forum at least every couple of days or I'm 200+ threads behind.  I'll work on our finances or clean out a file.  I spend several more hours each day just reading other blogs, websites, & books.  I'm a big reader.

I used to train taekwondo 2-3 evenings/week.  I've had to give that up due to knee injuries and recovery time, but I probably need to bring in another type of exercise to complement my current routine.  That might be walking a couple miles with a 30-pound pack, or maybe yoga.  My spouse spends most of her evenings walking with a neighbor for an hour, or doing water aerobics, or Zumba.  Most days we're in bed by 8:30-9 PM.

My spouse and I go out a few times a month for meals or visiting friends or a show, but we're hard-core introverts.  We have the skills to socialize but we find it very tiring.

Every week I have about an hour of conservator paperwork for my Dad's finances.  (He's in a care facility with mid-stage Alzheimer's.)  It's typically paying the bills, updating a spreadsheet, renewing CDs or moving money around, swapping paper with John Hancock, and updating the annual report to the probate court.  If Dad's going through a medical issue then there may be more hours on the phone with insurance companies and medical billers-- or even a trip to visit him.

I'm a member of an angel investing group which meets for lunch once a month.  I also sit on their screening committee, where we spend 2-3 hours/month reviewing pitches and putting together the lunch program.  If I'm interested in a startup then I'll spend a couple hours on the following week's due diligence meeting.  There may also be an hour or two of additional work each month with the startups that I've invested in, or just more reading to analyze the pitches for the next screening committee meeting.  I'm slowly learning that angel investing is hard work when it's done right, and I'm probably heading for the exit on that project.

In the long term we spent the first eight years of our ER on parenting up through high-school graduation.  The last four years have been a weekly call or e-mail about college life.  Our daughter's generally spent about 3-6 weeks/year at home around semesters and Navy ROTC training, and we visited her at least once a year.  She graduates in May so my spouse and I will be spending more time on travel.  We think that'll be about 6-10 weeks/year spread among Thailand, the FinCon blogger conference, and either visiting other Mainland friends/family or neighbor island trips.  Our daughter's trying to get overseas orders so we'll plan at least one trip each year around her homeport or deployment liberty ports.

Quiet life?  You bet.  I spent almost half my life in the Navy, and that was plenty of excitement. 

Boring?  Not to me-- I haven't been bored a single day of the last 12 years.  In fact most days I go to bed exhausted and still didn't get everything done that I thought I needed to do.

I still have Ernie Zelinski's Get-A-Life Tree worksheet somewhere in my desk, but I haven't made the time to do anything with it...

greenmimama

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Re: What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2014, 09:56:53 PM »
I hope to check back on this thread 5-6 months from now and let you know what I find.  One thing is for certain: I predict that we will outlaw alarms in our house.

I have never used an alarm routinely.  Only for the very rare early flight.

FIRE will look very different for people w/kids at home vs. those with no kids (either they're grown or they don't have any kids at all).  I am a SAHM, and I live my life just as I would if we were FI.  Pretty much kid-centered right now, just as I like it. :)

That is what I was thinking too, if my DH was FI, we could both be more active in the schooling of the boys, but my day to day life wouldn't change a whole lot, but we would travel more since we could, camping or staying with friends.

MrCash

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Re: What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2014, 10:40:05 AM »
For those who are financially independence or retired early, can you give us a breakdown of a typical day for you?  How many hours in the day do you spend doing different things?
"Every day is Saturday, every night is Friday night."
http://the-military-guide.com/2010/09/08/but-but-but-what-will-i-do-all-day/
http://the-military-guide.com/2010/10/14/myths-of-military-retirement-and-early-retirement/

I'm usually awake by 3-4 AM.  I literally start each morning with the surf forecast, and I paddle out 2-3x/week for 2-3 hours each.  There's almost always surf on the north or south shores, although some weeks it's too big up north and too small down south.  Once or twice a year it's flat all around the island.

Once I know what I'll be doing at dawn, I spend at least 20 minutes writing.  I do it every day (even when I don't feel particularly inspired) and often end up going longer than 20 minutes.  (Writer's block is a self-inflicted myth.)  Usually I split the time between a blog post and the latest book project.

If I'm not surfing that morning then I'll get in some bodyweight exercise, or we'll have heavy yardwork waiting for us.  There's almost always a project in the works with my spouse:  home improvement, maintenance, repair, or just cleaning out the attic/closets.  (This week it's window cleaning & grooming.  Oboy!)  We visit our rental property every six weeks to do yardwork and maintenance/repairs.  We try to limit all of this to an hour or two.  We don't have to spend all day doing chores & running errands anymore, so we avoid that whenever possible.  We also try to do the outside work in the mornings so that we can spend the hotter afternoons/evenings inside.

We tend to run errands on weekday mornings:  groceries, library, shopping, ATM.  The stores are less crowded, the clerks are relaxed & chatty, and we can get more done in less time.  We stay away from the stores (and off the roads) on weekends, holidays, and rush hours.  When I get caught in rush hour I can't believe that I used to live like that 10x/week.

I used to nap for 30-60 minutes almost every day after lunch, but recently that seems to be declining.  Maybe it's more protein at lunch, fewer carbs.

During afternoons & evenings I'll read the local/global news sites, social media, and e-mail for a couple hours.  I probably spend 30-60 minutes/day e-mailing with other bloggers or answering reader questions.  I try to check this forum at least every couple of days or I'm 200+ threads behind.  I'll work on our finances or clean out a file.  I spend several more hours each day just reading other blogs, websites, & books.  I'm a big reader.

I used to train taekwondo 2-3 evenings/week.  I've had to give that up due to knee injuries and recovery time, but I probably need to bring in another type of exercise to complement my current routine.  That might be walking a couple miles with a 30-pound pack, or maybe yoga.  My spouse spends most of her evenings walking with a neighbor for an hour, or doing water aerobics, or Zumba.  Most days we're in bed by 8:30-9 PM.

My spouse and I go out a few times a month for meals or visiting friends or a show, but we're hard-core introverts.  We have the skills to socialize but we find it very tiring.

Every week I have about an hour of conservator paperwork for my Dad's finances.  (He's in a care facility with mid-stage Alzheimer's.)  It's typically paying the bills, updating a spreadsheet, renewing CDs or moving money around, swapping paper with John Hancock, and updating the annual report to the probate court.  If Dad's going through a medical issue then there may be more hours on the phone with insurance companies and medical billers-- or even a trip to visit him.

I'm a member of an angel investing group which meets for lunch once a month.  I also sit on their screening committee, where we spend 2-3 hours/month reviewing pitches and putting together the lunch program.  If I'm interested in a startup then I'll spend a couple hours on the following week's due diligence meeting.  There may also be an hour or two of additional work each month with the startups that I've invested in, or just more reading to analyze the pitches for the next screening committee meeting.  I'm slowly learning that angel investing is hard work when it's done right, and I'm probably heading for the exit on that project.

In the long term we spent the first eight years of our ER on parenting up through high-school graduation.  The last four years have been a weekly call or e-mail about college life.  Our daughter's generally spent about 3-6 weeks/year at home around semesters and Navy ROTC training, and we visited her at least once a year.  She graduates in May so my spouse and I will be spending more time on travel.  We think that'll be about 6-10 weeks/year spread among Thailand, the FinCon blogger conference, and either visiting other Mainland friends/family or neighbor island trips.  Our daughter's trying to get overseas orders so we'll plan at least one trip each year around her homeport or deployment liberty ports.

Quiet life?  You bet.  I spent almost half my life in the Navy, and that was plenty of excitement. 

Boring?  Not to me-- I haven't been bored a single day of the last 12 years.  In fact most days I go to bed exhausted and still didn't get everything done that I thought I needed to do.

I still have Ernie Zelinski's Get-A-Life Tree worksheet somewhere in my desk, but I haven't made the time to do anything with it...

This is awesome, thanks for sharing!  I can't wait to get to FI.

nicknageli

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Re: What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2014, 11:14:21 AM »
Nords, do you have a lot of family/friends visiting all the time?  Do you get island fever at all?

DoubleDown

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Re: What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2014, 11:34:02 AM »
I'm only in my 5th month of ER, so I expect some of my experiences now will be different a little later on. Most notably, I'm still in "vacation" mode right now, but just starting to get the itch to take on some more ambitious projects, volunteer work, and possibly some income-generating fun.

But so far, as related in another post just a few minutes ago, ER has been AWESOME. My days have been varied, as I do whatever the hell I feel like that day. Some days I've built furniture, some I've worked on/around the house, practiced music, some I've been lazy as fuck. I have a few days a week where I take kids to school and pick them up, other than that my time is completely unstructured. Some general activities that have greatly increased and figure into many of my ER days:

1. Increased exercise, now at least 3-4 times/wk.
2. Still daily reminders that "if I was at work right now, I'd be doing <unfulfilling BS activity>". Then I smile.
3. Afternoon naps if I feel like it!
4. More time on hobbies.
5. I stay up as late as I want, and get up whenever I want.
6. Doing more cooking and housework to help the spouse out (she wants to continue working).
7. Read the paper every morning, which is something I enjoy but didn't have the leisure to do when working.
8. I now shower at the end of the day, after exercising or getting dirty working on the house or other projects.

We've had a harsh winter this year that coincided with the start of my ER, so outdoor activity has been really limited. I expect I'll do a lot more outdoor things once it improves, especially running, biking, some local sightseeing and travel, etc.

Here's what I'm NOT doing:

1. Dreading Monday mornings (not that I particularly did before, but still...)
2. Concerning myself with the latest BS at work, office politics, or boss's latest manufactured emergency project
3. Setting an alarm
4. Sitting in f'ed up traffic, again, wondering how long it will take to get home
5. Shaving every day, or even every other day

Exflyboy

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Re: What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2014, 12:39:30 PM »
I have only been FIRE'd for 10 weeks and I can tell you its a heck of a transition.

First off every day after I wake up at 8:30am I realise I would have gotten out of bed 4 hours before on a typical workday!!!!

Then I do some chores think about cooking for thr evening meal then get on with household projects, go fishining or anything else.

Its not easy though

Frank

Why do you say it's not easy?

Sometimes the fish fight back?

He was the size of a god damn buick, and I woulda had him if you hadn't shown up.

General Sherman?


Haha... very funny.

The reason I say its not easy is because for a start

1) I feel incredibly guilty that everyone else is going to work..
2) I constantly worry about money.. Although that is easing.. I wouldn't mind but we are not even touching our stash!
3) I worry the longer I stay away from the super technical stuff I did I will loose my edge.. Which of course is true but so what?.. I'm retired right?...:)
4) Lost my identity of what I did.


Its just a weired transition.. After 30 years of grinding and striving to doing whatever.

Frank

nicknageli

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Re: What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2014, 12:41:08 PM »
Its just a weired transition.. After 30 years of grinding and striving to doing whatever.

You wouldn't go back and do one more year if you could do it all over would you?

Cassie

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Re: What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2014, 12:46:02 PM »
I would not! In the beginning it felt weird being out during the day-like I was not supposed to.

Exflyboy

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Re: What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2014, 12:55:10 PM »
Its just a weired transition.. After 30 years of grinding and striving to doing whatever.

You wouldn't go back and do one more year if you could do it all over would you?

heck no.. But I'm not saying I will never work again either.. but thats the good thing about being FIRE'd you can do whatever YOU want..:)

Frank

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Re: What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2014, 01:43:38 PM »
Typical day for me is : I get up 4am and drink coffee and read / research in my office till about 7am. The kids get up and then I help see them off and head back to my office and pretty much day trade.  I run errands and once it warms up a bit more will be getting out more to exercise and stuff. But I am busy right now with 2 bathroom remodels as well in the house.

I have several friends/acquaintances i see and I do fund raising for our soccer club. Night time i pretty much am running kids to there Soccer training , eat dinner, relax and start all over.

Weekends I travel almost every weekend out of state to soccer events because i have 4 that play.

I really enjoy my couple hours of reading in the mornings! Night time is nuts! Social time is mostly weekends at the tournaments/games!

Really not alot of extra time!

Thegoblinchief

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Re: What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2014, 03:11:24 PM »
Probably much like my current days, but I'd be able to not work on the weekend. If we hit FIRE with some or all of the goblins still in school age, we'd continue homeschooling but we'd continuously slow travel or spend a solid year abroad if we could.

Nords

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Re: What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2014, 03:48:49 PM »
Nords, do you have a lot of family/friends visiting all the time? 
The general Hawaii scenario is that the first couple of years are incredibly full of guests, especially January-March.  After that your visitors run out of frequent-flyer miles (or travel budget) and don't visit so often.  These days we still have 3-4 classmates or shipmates per year who visit on business travel.  We have people dropping by every month or two, and someone's in our guest bedroom several times per year.  I also meet up several times a year with (Mainland) people who I know from blogging or the book. 

When we were all in uniform, we had people dropping by all the time-- especially for major exercises that use Reservists.  Now that cycle is beginning to repeat itself with adult children.  A friend's nephew was stationed aboard the USS TEXAS, and my cousin's son is stationed aboard the USS GREENEVILLE.  One of our daughter's classmates just transferred off the USS HOPPER.  Last summer our daughter's Navy ROTC training was on a Pearl Harbor destroyer, so we had at least a half-dozen midshipmen crashing here every weekend for a month.  They were a mix of USNA and NROTC, and we had a great time hearing about 21st-century USNA while telling our old sea stories to a new audience.  A few weeks ago our daughter brought home four friends for spring break, and that certainly livened up the place. 

We did have an unexpected "family visit" problem with my spouse's parents.  They were regular two-week guests every January during the 1990s, which was tolerable.  When we found our "dream house" in 2000 (18 months before I retired) it turned out to be easier to buy it while keeping our previous home and renting it out (which we still landlord today).  At the time I remember making the conservative estimate that our rental would pay for itself but not cash flow, so I only included it in our ER plans as a source of downsizing equity.  A few months after we made the move, my spouse's parents announced that they were returning to Hawaii and living in our rental to watch their only grandchild grow up.  I can attest that having family squatting in your rental property will kill your cash flow, and they were here for nearly six years.  Their idea of "taking care of the place" was to clean it vigorously but never put any money into any improvements until something fell apart.  Even repairs were a challenge ("Oh, that's all right, we never use it anyway!") let alone maintenance.  My spouse will be the first to declare that it was the worst family experience that we've ever had, but we certainly answered her question about whether there was any hope of ever relating to her parents as adults.

Anyhow their darling grandchild turned into a teenager, and they realized that (to put it politely) they were not acculturating to the islands.  They moved back to the Mainland, everyone heaved a huge sigh of relief, and my spouse & I put $25K back into the rental property to make it livable again.  My spouse and I each have only one sibling, and we're not close, so we don't see any future family squatting issues.

Do you get island fever at all?
Um, I spent 20 years in the submarine force.  What "island fever"?

Just kidding.  I'm aware of the syndrome, and it bugs the crap out of a lot of military who are stationed here, but it doesn't even remotely begin to affect us. 

Our neighborhood is one of the island's largest bedroom communities, so all the conveniences of daily life are within a couple of miles.  Honolulu is America's 12th largest city so we have big-city life whenever we want, and there's still plenty of rugged country to explore.  We've lived here 25 years and haven't even gotten around to visiting Lanai or Molokai.  We also whine & snivel whenever we have to drive somewhere for more than 45 minutes, and our daughter had never heard of the "Are we there yet?" game until she was at college. 

It can get tiring to fly frequently for business or Mainland family, but we only do it for pleasure... and when we do, we try to do it for at least a week. 

Exflyboy

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Re: What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2014, 06:48:12 PM »
I have only been FIRE'd for 10 weeks and I can tell you its a heck of a transition.

First off every day after I wake up at 8:30am I realise I would have gotten out of bed 4 hours before on a typical workday!!!!

Then I do some chores think about cooking for thr evening meal then get on with household projects, go fishining or anything else.

Its not easy though

Frank

Why do you say it's not easy?

Sometimes the fish fight back?

He was the size of a god damn buick, and I woulda had him if you hadn't shown up.

General Sherman?


Haha... very funny.

The reason I say its not easy is because for a start

1) I feel incredibly guilty that everyone else is going to work..
2) I constantly worry about money.. Although that is easing.. I wouldn't mind but we are not even touching our stash!
3) I worry the longer I stay away from the super technical stuff I did I will loose my edge.. Which of course is true but so what?.. I'm retired right?...:)
4) Lost my identity of what I did.


Its just a weired transition.. After 30 years of grinding and striving to doing whatever.

Frank

Talk about worrying about money.. Well I finally went through the Firecalc predictor and apparently we can draw on our stash at almost double the rate I was predicting and still have a 100% chance of being sucessful over 60 years.

This does not include any rent we are currently getting or any of my small pension from the UK.

A little off topic but yes worrying about running out of money is a significant deal for me.

Frank

MrCash

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Re: What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2014, 08:04:20 PM »
I have only been FIRE'd for 10 weeks and I can tell you its a heck of a transition.

First off every day after I wake up at 8:30am I realise I would have gotten out of bed 4 hours before on a typical workday!!!!

Then I do some chores think about cooking for thr evening meal then get on with household projects, go fishining or anything else.

Its not easy though

Frank

Why do you say it's not easy?

Sometimes the fish fight back?

He was the size of a god damn buick, and I woulda had him if you hadn't shown up.

General Sherman?


Haha... very funny.

The reason I say its not easy is because for a start

1) I feel incredibly guilty that everyone else is going to work..
2) I constantly worry about money.. Although that is easing.. I wouldn't mind but we are not even touching our stash!
3) I worry the longer I stay away from the super technical stuff I did I will loose my edge.. Which of course is true but so what?.. I'm retired right?...:)
4) Lost my identity of what I did.


Its just a weired transition.. After 30 years of grinding and striving to doing whatever.

Frank

Talk about worrying about money.. Well I finally went through the Firecalc predictor and apparently we can draw on our stash at almost double the rate I was predicting and still have a 100% chance of being sucessful over 60 years.

This does not include any rent we are currently getting or any of my small pension from the UK.

A little off topic but yes worrying about running out of money is a significant deal for me.

Frank

What SWR are you using in your calculations?

arebelspy

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Re: What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2014, 08:15:25 PM »
Talk about worrying about money.. Well I finally went through the Firecalc predictor and apparently we can draw on our stash at almost double the rate I was predicting and still have a 100% chance of being sucessful over 60 years.

Make sure you also run it for 30 and 40.

More years = they have less data on (there has been many less periods of 60 years than 30 years) = less accurate.  In other words, if you were running a scenario for 1 year, they probably have 100+ years of data on that.  But how many 30 year periods were there?  How many 60?

It's a small but important subtly in FireCalc/cFIREsim most don't know about, but ERers need to be aware of.
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huadpe

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Re: What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2014, 08:21:04 PM »
Talk about worrying about money.. Well I finally went through the Firecalc predictor and apparently we can draw on our stash at almost double the rate I was predicting and still have a 100% chance of being sucessful over 60 years.

Make sure you also run it for 30 and 40.

More years = they have less data on (there has been many less periods of 60 years than 30 years) = less accurate.  In other words, if you were running a scenario for 1 year, they probably have 100+ years of data on that.  But how many 30 year periods were there?  How many 60?

It's a small but important subtly in FireCalc/cFIREsim most don't know about, but ERers need to be aware of.

There are 29 fewer 30 year periods in their database than 1 year periods, and there are 59 fewer 60 year periods than one year periods.

Also, the periods you're missing will be non-random.  For 30 year frames, you will miss periods starting in 1984 and later.  Many of your simulations will include the years 1984-2013, but none will start in those years, since they are less than 30 years ago.

Since there has been a largely bull market from 1984-2013, you will not likely have many added failures from not having these start years, though its worth looking at performance in 2007-2009 as a benchmark for a modern very bad period.

arebelspy

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Re: What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?
« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2014, 09:37:30 PM »
Also, the periods you're missing will be non-random.  For 30 year frames, you will miss periods starting in 1984 and later.  Many of your simulations will include the years 1984-2013, but none will start in those years, since they are less than 30 years ago.

Correct.  Now look at how many periods he will miss out on doing a 60-year run.

That's my point - make sure to run shorter periods as well, even if your ER will be for a long time.
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Re: What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?
« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2014, 08:16:57 AM »
A few months after we made the move, my spouse's parents announced that they were returning to Hawaii and living in our rental to watch their only grandchild grow up.  I can attest that having family squatting in your rental property will kill your cash flow, and they were here for nearly six years.  Their idea of "taking care of the place" was to clean it vigorously but never put any money into any improvements until something fell apart.  Even repairs were a challenge ("Oh, that's all right, we never use it anyway!") let alone maintenance.  My spouse will be the first to declare that it was the worst family experience that we've ever had, but we certainly answered her question about whether there was any hope of ever relating to her parents as adults.

Yikes!  You both seem very patient.  I'm not sure I could have handled that.

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Re: What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2014, 09:34:29 PM »
A few months after we made the move, my spouse's parents announced that they were returning to Hawaii and living in our rental to watch their only grandchild grow up.  I can attest that having family squatting in your rental property will kill your cash flow, and they were here for nearly six years.  Their idea of "taking care of the place" was to clean it vigorously but never put any money into any improvements until something fell apart.  Even repairs were a challenge ("Oh, that's all right, we never use it anyway!") let alone maintenance.  My spouse will be the first to declare that it was the worst family experience that we've ever had, but we certainly answered her question about whether there was any hope of ever relating to her parents as adults.

Yikes!  You both seem very patient.  I'm not sure I could have handled that.
I learned the patience on the job...

We had two fairly significant sticking points, both on the parenting front.  My father-in-law used to sleep with a loaded Beretta in his nightstand-- full clip and one in the chamber.  ("But it's safe-- it has a safety!")  Luckily Hawaii has gun-control laws that discouraged him into selling the Beretta before he moved here, because I wasn't very happy with the idea of grandchild sleepovers. 

My second issue was when I overheard him telling our eight-year-old daughter that she didn't want to live in a neighborhood that was "going black".  He was explaining this to a child who grew up in one of the country's most multiracial states, so she poked a lot of holes in that logic...
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 09:40:30 PM by Nords »

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Re: What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?
« Reply #28 on: March 28, 2014, 02:32:17 PM »
Also, the periods you're missing will be non-random.  For 30 year frames, you will miss periods starting in 1984 and later.  Many of your simulations will include the years 1984-2013, but none will start in those years, since they are less than 30 years ago.

Correct.  Now look at how many periods he will miss out on doing a 60-year run.

That's my point - make sure to run shorter periods as well, even if your ER will be for a long time.

Yes I had come to the same conclusion after I poked around at it a little more.

I then beefed it up with all the little bits of pension we have lying around and eventually came up with a pretty obscene WR and still had 100% sucess rate.

I will go back today and redo for shorter periods as it doesn't look right..

One other thing that occurred was that there "should be" a scenario where there is a 90% drop in the first year.. i.e "retire in 1929".. But I can't detect any such drop.. thi is making me wonder about how accurate Firecalc is.. I will poke around some more.

Frank

huadpe

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Re: What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?
« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2014, 04:20:43 PM »
Also, the periods you're missing will be non-random.  For 30 year frames, you will miss periods starting in 1984 and later.  Many of your simulations will include the years 1984-2013, but none will start in those years, since they are less than 30 years ago.

Correct.  Now look at how many periods he will miss out on doing a 60-year run.

That's my point - make sure to run shorter periods as well, even if your ER will be for a long time.

Yes I had come to the same conclusion after I poked around at it a little more.

I then beefed it up with all the little bits of pension we have lying around and eventually came up with a pretty obscene WR and still had 100% sucess rate.

I will go back today and redo for shorter periods as it doesn't look right..

One other thing that occurred was that there "should be" a scenario where there is a 90% drop in the first year.. i.e "retire in 1929".. But I can't detect any such drop.. thi is making me wonder about how accurate Firecalc is.. I will poke around some more.

Frank

1929 wasn't as bad as people make it out to be. It was pretty much a standard stock market crash and start of a recession. Also the market was up like 30% that spring before crashing in the fall, so you only get killed if you invested in the summer.

What made the depression "great" was the fact that 1930 was also bad. And 1931 was also bad. And 1932 was also bad. Things just kept getting worse until 1933. 2008 was arguably worse than 2008, but 2009 was far better than 1930.  Also, 1929-1933 had the largest deflation (fall of prices) in US history, so your withdrawal rate would drop substantially if you're indexing it to inflation.

Sorry for the tangent, I studied the depression quite a lot in college and tend to drone about it.

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Re: What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?
« Reply #30 on: March 28, 2014, 04:31:24 PM »
Also, the periods you're missing will be non-random.  For 30 year frames, you will miss periods starting in 1984 and later.  Many of your simulations will include the years 1984-2013, but none will start in those years, since they are less than 30 years ago.

Correct.  Now look at how many periods he will miss out on doing a 60-year run.

That's my point - make sure to run shorter periods as well, even if your ER will be for a long time.

Yes I had come to the same conclusion after I poked around at it a little more.

I then beefed it up with all the little bits of pension we have lying around and eventually came up with a pretty obscene WR and still had 100% sucess rate.

I will go back today and redo for shorter periods as it doesn't look right..

One other thing that occurred was that there "should be" a scenario where there is a 90% drop in the first year.. i.e "retire in 1929".. But I can't detect any such drop.. thi is making me wonder about how accurate Firecalc is.. I will poke around some more.

Frank

1929 wasn't as bad as people make it out to be. It was pretty much a standard stock market crash and start of a recession. Also the market was up like 30% that spring before crashing in the fall, so you only get killed if you invested in the summer.

What made the depression "great" was the fact that 1930 was also bad. And 1931 was also bad. And 1932 was also bad. Things just kept getting worse until 1933. 2008 was arguably worse than 2008, but 2009 was far better than 1930.  Also, 1929-1933 had the largest deflation (fall of prices) in US history, so your withdrawal rate would drop substantially if you're indexing it to inflation.

Sorry for the tangent, I studied the depression quite a lot in college and tend to drone about it.

Please don't be that was a very useful piece of information.. That explains why I didn't see the 90% drop I was expecting.

I re-ran the numbers for 10 and 20 year time periods and the value of the portfolio did drop quite a bit more but still allowed for slightly better than a 4% WR.

Frank

libertarian4321

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Re: What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?
« Reply #31 on: March 30, 2014, 01:41:06 AM »
Okay, I don't get it.

I read about a bunch of early retired folks who CLAIM they "get up at 4 a.m."

WHY?

Do you have to milk the damned cows?

I did early retirement for a few years, before voluntarily going back to work.

I NEVER woke up at 4 a.m..  I woke up at 4 am when I was in the military, and I hated it, why the HELL would I do it if I didn't have to?

Guess what, folks, there is nothing "noble," smart, or necessary about getting up at 4 AM.

There is NOTHING that needs to be done at 4 AM, unless you are a commercial farmer or preparing a dawn attack on the enemy.

I got up whenever the heck I wanted to.  I'd get some coffee, read the news, then spend a couple of hours reading- history, politics, whatever struck my fancy.

Then I'd shower and head out to the local animal shelter, or food bank, or whatever and do a few hours of volunteer work.  Maybe spend the afternoon at the library, or visiting friends, or doing political work.

Then I'd maybe go shopping, and prepare dinner.

In the evening, more reading, or maybe a movie and family time.

Honestly, if you are under the age of 70 and waking up at 4 AM while retired, you ain't doing it right.  You may as well keep working.

Some of you folks need to learn how to relax.




kkbmustang

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Re: What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?
« Reply #32 on: March 30, 2014, 08:09:25 AM »
Okay, I don't get it.

I read about a bunch of early retired folks who CLAIM they "get up at 4 a.m."

WHY?

Do you have to milk the damned cows?

I did early retirement for a few years, before voluntarily going back to work.

I NEVER woke up at 4 a.m..  I woke up at 4 am when I was in the military, and I hated it, why the HELL would I do it if I didn't have to?

Guess what, folks, there is nothing "noble," smart, or necessary about getting up at 4 AM.

There is NOTHING that needs to be done at 4 AM, unless you are a commercial farmer or preparing a dawn attack on the enemy.

I got up whenever the heck I wanted to.  I'd get some coffee, read the news, then spend a couple of hours reading- history, politics, whatever struck my fancy.

Then I'd shower and head out to the local animal shelter, or food bank, or whatever and do a few hours of volunteer work.  Maybe spend the afternoon at the library, or visiting friends, or doing political work.

Then I'd maybe go shopping, and prepare dinner.

In the evening, more reading, or maybe a movie and family time.

Honestly, if you are under the age of 70 and waking up at 4 AM while retired, you ain't doing it right.  You may as well keep working.

Some of you folks need to learn how to relax.

I think some people are just naturally early risers. I am not one of those people. My husband and father are.

arebelspy

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Re: What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?
« Reply #33 on: March 30, 2014, 09:29:09 AM »
Okay, I don't get it.

I read about a bunch of early retired folks who CLAIM they "get up at 4 a.m."

WHY?

Do you have to milk the damned cows?

I did early retirement for a few years, before voluntarily going back to work.

I NEVER woke up at 4 a.m..  I woke up at 4 am when I was in the military, and I hated it, why the HELL would I do it if I didn't have to?

Guess what, folks, there is nothing "noble," smart, or necessary about getting up at 4 AM.

There is NOTHING that needs to be done at 4 AM, unless you are a commercial farmer or preparing a dawn attack on the enemy.

I got up whenever the heck I wanted to.  I'd get some coffee, read the news, then spend a couple of hours reading- history, politics, whatever struck my fancy.

Then I'd shower and head out to the local animal shelter, or food bank, or whatever and do a few hours of volunteer work.  Maybe spend the afternoon at the library, or visiting friends, or doing political work.

Then I'd maybe go shopping, and prepare dinner.

In the evening, more reading, or maybe a movie and family time.

Honestly, if you are under the age of 70 and waking up at 4 AM while retired, you ain't doing it right.  You may as well keep working.

Some of you folks need to learn how to relax.

I think some people are just naturally early risers. I am not one of those people. My husband and father are.

+1. My wife naturally rises that early. She likes being up that early. She doesn't set an alarm clock to rise early. Why rant against it just because you aren't that way?

You seem awfully angry, 4321. Most of your posts (for example your recent one about PE/engineering) are angry rants.

Is there a reason you are so angry at the world, or is it just these forums?
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stevewisc

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Re: What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?
« Reply #34 on: March 30, 2014, 09:46:09 AM »
.....
1. Increased exercise, now at least 3-4 times/wk.
2. Still daily reminders that "if I was at work right now, I'd be doing <unfulfilling BS activity>". Then I smile.
3. Afternoon naps if I feel like it!
4. More time on hobbies.
5. I stay up as late as I want, and get up whenever I want.
6. Doing more cooking and housework to help the spouse out (she wants to continue working).
7. Read the paper every morning, which is something I enjoy but didn't have the leisure to do when working.
8. I now shower at the end of the day, after exercising or getting dirty working on the house or other projects.

We've had a harsh winter this year that coincided with the start of my ER, so outdoor activity has been really limited. I expect I'll do a lot more outdoor things once it improves, especially running, biking, some local sightseeing and travel, etc.

Here's what I'm NOT doing:

1. Dreading Monday mornings (not that I particularly did before, but still...)
2. Concerning myself with the latest BS at work, office politics, or boss's latest manufactured emergency project
3. Setting an alarm
4. Sitting in f'ed up traffic, again, wondering how long it will take to get home
5. Shaving every day, or even every other day


I'm 'semi-retired' as I have a pretty decent time at my business and enjoy most all of the people and the mental challenges.   Funny this list was mostly taken care of once I founded my own business that paid my way. 

BAD:
1. Dreading Monday mornings (not that I particularly did before, but still...)*** - still do once in a while
2. Concerning myself with the latest BS at work, office politics, or boss's latest manufactured emergency project ***- some employees are a pain but the last shorter and shorter time periods.
3. Setting an alarm ***- not for 15 years.
4. Sitting in f'ed up traffic, again, wondering how long it will take to get home -*** not for 15 years.
5. Shaving every day, or even every other day ***- not for the last 5 yrs. 

GOOD:
1. Increased exercise, now at least 3-4 times/wk. *** last 4 years 3-5 times a week
2. Still daily reminders that "if I was at work right now, I'd be doing <unfulfilling BS activity>". Then I smile.  ***Almost never do bs - setup processes to get rid of most of it, not much none value added stuff done.
3. Afternoon naps if I feel like it!  ***Mediate 5 min an afternoon not really a nap kind of guy
4. More time on hobbies.  ***40 hr week max  average 30-35.
5. I stay up as late as I want, and get up whenever I want. *** true but not real a big value for me
6. Doing more cooking and housework to help the spouse out (she wants to continue working). ***cook some - need a class to be better at it.  Other chores take 2hr a week?
7. Read the paper every morning, which is something I enjoy but didn't have the leisure to do when working.   *** used to do but am on low news diet :)
8. I now shower at the end of the day, after exercising or getting dirty working on the house or other projects.
*** depends on the daily activity


FuckRx

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Re: What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?
« Reply #35 on: March 30, 2014, 12:04:07 PM »
Okay, I don't get it.

I read about a bunch of early retired folks who CLAIM they "get up at 4 a.m."

WHY?

Do you have to milk the damned cows?

I did early retirement for a few years, before voluntarily going back to work.

I NEVER woke up at 4 a.m..  I woke up at 4 am when I was in the military, and I hated it, why the HELL would I do it if I didn't have to?

Guess what, folks, there is nothing "noble," smart, or necessary about getting up at 4 AM.

There is NOTHING that needs to be done at 4 AM, unless you are a commercial farmer or preparing a dawn attack on the enemy.

I got up whenever the heck I wanted to.  I'd get some coffee, read the news, then spend a couple of hours reading- history, politics, whatever struck my fancy.

Then I'd shower and head out to the local animal shelter, or food bank, or whatever and do a few hours of volunteer work.  Maybe spend the afternoon at the library, or visiting friends, or doing political work.

Then I'd maybe go shopping, and prepare dinner.

In the evening, more reading, or maybe a movie and family time.

Honestly, if you are under the age of 70 and waking up at 4 AM while retired, you ain't doing it right.  You may as well keep working.

Some of you folks need to learn how to relax.

everyone's natural clock is different. this is why we think there is so much stress in society because we are forcing children and adults to go against their clock. this creates lower productivity, more errors and quite a bit of unhappiness. some people need 4 hours of sleep and some need 12. some have to be in bed by 830p and others cannot go back to bed after 3-4am. several companies understand this concept and create "flex work" so that some people can come in later and leave later or come in earlier and leave earlier.

Fireman

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Re: What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?
« Reply #36 on: March 30, 2014, 12:44:49 PM »
I have only been FIRE'd for 10 weeks and I can tell you its a heck of a transition.

First off every day after I wake up at 8:30am I realise I would have gotten out of bed 4 hours before on a typical workday!!!!

Then I do some chores think about cooking for thr evening meal then get on with household projects, go fishining or anything else.

Its not easy though

Frank

Why do you say it's not easy?

Sometimes the fish fight back?

He was the size of a god damn buick, and I woulda had him if you hadn't shown up.

General Sherman?



Also, in reference to early rising...Mom gets up between 0430 and 0500 every day with no alarm.  She enjoys the calm of the morning to accomplish things.  Personally, I get up around 0500 for work, 0615 when i'm at work (and still asleep), and NLT 0800 when i'm not.  If I had a rough night at work, i'll come home and catch a nap first thing but I feel sluggish and lazy if I sleep too much. 

Nords

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Re: What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?
« Reply #37 on: March 30, 2014, 02:27:11 PM »
Okay, I don't get it.

I read about a bunch of early retired folks who CLAIM they "get up at 4 a.m."

WHY?

Do you have to milk the damned cows?

Honestly, if you are under the age of 70 and waking up at 4 AM while retired, you ain't doing it right.  You may as well keep working.

Some of you folks need to learn how to relax.
Frankly, it's the damned PTSD symptoms.  Is that an acceptable justification?

When I sleep until 4 AM, it feels more like "sleeping in".  It's usually been seven hours by that point, and my body is done sleeping.  It usually takes a good hard workout to make that happen, and good hard workouts have their own joint/recovery issues. 

The nights that I wake up at 1-2 AM, after just four hours of sleep-- those are the nights that really suck.  But I get a lot of writing done.

If your post was written as irony/sarcasm, then congratulations on its subtlety.  It might come across less offensively if you used the [rant][/rant] tags.

« Last Edit: March 30, 2014, 02:30:11 PM by Nords »

Cassie

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Re: What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?
« Reply #38 on: March 30, 2014, 05:17:57 PM »
I assumed he was being funny and laughed while reading it!

arebelspy

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Re: What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?
« Reply #39 on: March 30, 2014, 05:58:11 PM »
I assumed he was being funny and laughed while reading it!

I would have assumed that, except for multiple recent posts that made me question his anger.  I almost posted, then decided not to, then this one came. 

/shrug
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Cassie

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Re: What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?
« Reply #40 on: March 30, 2014, 09:49:40 PM »
Actually you have been a wee grumpy yourself on some posts-perhaps something is in the water- or lack there of? 

arebelspy

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Re: What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?
« Reply #41 on: March 30, 2014, 09:57:42 PM »
Actually you have been a wee grumpy yourself on some posts-perhaps something is in the water- or lack there of?

I'm assuming you're referring to the thread where you were giving incorrect legal advice?  If you're referring to something else, please let me know.

I haven't noticed anything different, but as social networks grow, so does the amount of stupidity.  You raise a good point, Libertarian should get some slack on that.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and are now settled with two kids.
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Cassie

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Re: What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?
« Reply #42 on: March 30, 2014, 10:08:50 PM »
It actually is you that is giving incorrect legal advice!

wtjbatman

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Re: What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?
« Reply #43 on: March 30, 2014, 10:12:37 PM »
I have only been FIRE'd for 10 weeks and I can tell you its a heck of a transition.

First off every day after I wake up at 8:30am I realise I would have gotten out of bed 4 hours before on a typical workday!!!!

Then I do some chores think about cooking for thr evening meal then get on with household projects, go fishining or anything else.

Its not easy though

Frank

Why do you say it's not easy?

Sometimes the fish fight back?

He was the size of a god damn buick, and I woulda had him if you hadn't shown up.

General Sherman?



Also, in reference to early rising...Mom gets up between 0430 and 0500 every day with no alarm.  She enjoys the calm of the morning to accomplish things.  Personally, I get up around 0500 for work, 0615 when i'm at work (and still asleep), and NLT 0800 when i'm not.  If I had a rough night at work, i'll come home and catch a nap first thing but I feel sluggish and lazy if I sleep too much.

I love those movies, and plan to model my retirement activities after them. Minus the parts where they are single/lonely.

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Re: What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?
« Reply #44 on: April 01, 2014, 03:52:00 PM »

+1. My wife naturally rises that early. She likes being up that early. She doesn't set an alarm clock to rise early. Why rant against it just because you aren't that way?

You seem awfully angry, 4321. Most of your posts (for example your recent one about PE/engineering) are angry rants.

Is there a reason you are so angry at the world, or is it just these forums?

How did you get "angry" from the PE thread?

I may be blunt and straightforward (I know, engineers usually aren't like that, right?), but that doesn't mean I'm angry.

BTW, I just added a couple of more replies to that thread.  Again, I corrected misinformation on the thread. 

I wasn't angry, I just wanted the people on the thread to know that the previous posts were incorrect.

Hence forth, when I'm angry, I'll use red bolded font, so there will be no confusion.

Wow, that looks pretty cool.  Maybe I should use it on all my posts.

arebelspy

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Re: What is a typical day like when you're FIRE?
« Reply #45 on: April 01, 2014, 03:57:26 PM »
Wow, that looks pretty cool.  Maybe I should use it on all my posts.

No.

;)

Gotcha, thanks for the clarification.
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