Author Topic: What do you NOT count as part of your net worth  (Read 9514 times)

Morning Glory

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What do you NOT count as part of your net worth
« on: February 04, 2017, 08:36:15 AM »
Here goes:
FSA funds
Dental/vision reimbursement account
Credit on prepay contract with the gas company
Vehicles
Other possessions
Gift cards
Cash in wallet
PTO (even though I could sell if needed)
Anything pending (pay checks, rebates, tax returns, etc)

Retire-Canada

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Re: What do you NOT count as part of your net worth
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2017, 08:49:45 AM »
It's easier to identify what I do count:

1. home equity [I use a conservative value - purchase price in 2010 adjusted only for inflation - mortgage balance]
2. investment account market value

DailyGrindFree

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Re: What do you NOT count as part of your net worth
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2017, 09:06:30 AM »
Here goes:
FSA funds - Agreed
Dental/vision reimbursement account - Agreed
Credit on prepay contract with the gas company - Agreed
Vehicles - Should be included
Other possessions - Should be included. Things like diamond ring etc.. 
Gift cards - Agreed
Cash in wallet - Should be included
PTO (even though I could sell if needed)
Anything pending (pay checks, rebates, tax returns, etc) - Agreed

My responses are in bold.

iris lily

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Re: What do you NOT count as part of your net worth
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2017, 09:12:22 AM »
We count  the things that would exist if we died this moment, true assets.we have assigned a value to all of the crap in our house.

I never thought of counting PTO balance. Interesting! I guess it would be paid out if I had died while employed, never really thought about it.

We always count cash on hand, even though it isnt much.

BlueMR2

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Re: What do you NOT count as part of your net worth
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2017, 09:40:21 AM »
Here goes:
FSA funds
Dental/vision reimbursement account
Credit on prepay contract with the gas company
Vehicles
Other possessions
Gift cards
Cash in wallet
PTO (even though I could sell if needed)
Anything pending (pay checks, rebates, tax returns, etc)

I don't count any form of money owed me (credits on accounts, gift cards, PTO, etc) as I don't actually possess it.  I do count all my assets (including cars and HSA).  Any of the physical assets *can* be turned into money at varying degrees of speed, just as investments all have different speeds at which they can be converted into hard cash.  I will be spending out of my HSA for healthcare, so it should be included as it does provide for me.

AK

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Re: What do you NOT count as part of your net worth
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2017, 11:22:06 AM »
Included is
  Investments
  House
  Cars

Have thought about including possessions but don't.


secondcor521

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Re: What do you NOT count as part of your net worth
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2017, 12:06:59 PM »
Do not count airline miles and credit card points, although they are currently worth more than several of the accounts that I do include (checking account, household furnishings, etc.)

Do count cash in wallet, although that is rare.

Do not count pending payments, although I will often schedule them in Quicken so I have a reminder to follow up if they don't arrive on time and so I can predict cash flow.

ChpBstrd

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Re: What do you NOT count as part of your net worth
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2017, 12:57:57 PM »
Here goes:
FSA funds No, inconsequential.
Dental/vision reimbursement account No, inconsequential
Credit on prepay contract with the gas company No, N/A
Vehicles No, inconsequential
Other possessions Yes. Such as my home equity and an inherited stake in a rural tenents-in-common property
Gift cards No, inconsequential
Cash in wallet No, inconsequential
PTO (even though I could sell if needed) No, I assume I will eventually use it all on leisure, even though I could sell.
Anything pending (pay checks, rebates, tax returns, etc) No, inconsequential

See bolded items.

My rule is to count anything worth counting (i.e. not couch change - things sellable for thousands of dollars) that I could conceivably liquidate to fund my retirement account.

I count my home equity because if, for example, I had 23X annual expenses in my brokerage accounts, and 2X annual expenses in home equity, I could sell the house and have 25X proceeds rather than waiting another year or two to retire. In that scenario, I could be a financially independent renter for about the same annual expense, instead of waiting for the other accounts to fill all the way. Similarly, an anti-mustachian living in a $2M McMansion with $1M in equity who suddenly "sees the light" and wants to retire early with a frugal lifestyle should account for their $1M in home equity as a component of their net worth.

My share in a rural property that pays its own taxes through hunting leases is an ace-in-the-hole that I absolutely plan to sell someday and hopefully generate 1X annual expenses.

At the beginning of this year, I had $1400 in credit card cash back. Rather than bother counting it, I just clicked the button and applied it to my next bill. Same with FSA. I suppose if I was strictly applying accrual accounting, I would also add up my likely tax refund as it built up each quarter. All these things add up to thousands, but aren't worth the accounting trouble.

Morning Glory

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Re: What do you NOT count as part of your net worth
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2017, 01:32:24 PM »
I do count home equity, sorry if I didn't make that clear. I just don't count things like furniture or jewelry.
I did not include wallet cash because I rarely have more than $50 in there.
I did not even think about credit card rewards, Walgreens points, etc

marty998

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Re: What do you NOT count as part of your net worth
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2017, 02:04:07 PM »
- Car
- Cash in notes and coins
- Furniture/household possessions
- Expected tax refunds
- Accrued annual leave / Long Service leave balances

I never thought of counting PTO balance. Interesting! I guess it would be paid out if I had died while employed, never really thought about it.

Hadn't given this much thought either until now in terms of net worth - thanks! It'll be a nice little bonus if it ever gets paid out.

Dicey

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Re: What do you NOT count as part of your net worth
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2017, 02:50:11 PM »
Wow, good question. All we really count is equities.

What we have and don't count, despite being paid for:

Primary home
Cars
Contents of our home
Other personal property
Cash on hand
Gift cards (Despite holding about 1k worth at present.)
DH's defined benefit pension

-or-

Expected small inheritance, which is in process. (16k so far, maybe that much more again after taxes.)
Equity in three SFH rentals, all of which have mortgages and at least 65% LTV.

It was really important to us to hit our "Number" in equities. Until we did, we counted some of the above just to feel that progress was being made. Now that we're "there", it's nice not to worry too much about any of it. Except rebalancing, perhaps.

SpareChange

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Re: What do you NOT count as part of your net worth
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2017, 04:25:05 PM »
I count cash, however little. I don't count physical possessions....their value is very low. I do cash out and invest the max pto allowed every year, but I don't count the rest. 

oldladystache

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Re: What do you NOT count as part of your net worth
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2017, 04:27:55 PM »
When I figure my net worth I calculate what I would have if I sold everything I own, paid any taxes due on the sale, and whatever is left is my net worth.




maizefolk

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Re: What do you NOT count as part of your net worth
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2017, 04:41:26 PM »
Don't Count: Physical cash, resale value of my car or any other possessions, equity stakes in companies for which there is no primary or secondary market.
Do Count: Taxable stocks, Retirement Accounts (IRA/403b/457), cash in bank accounts, travel expenses that are reimbursable by my employer.*

*I just started doing this a couple of months ago. I used to handle paying for flights/hotels/registration costs as expenses, and then the reimbursements as income, but because these expenses sometimes remain on the books for months -- I don't get reimbursed until after I actually take the trip -- it was just adding a lot of volatility to my monthly numbers. I suppose if they shut down tomorrow I'd be out the money. *shrug*

Laura33

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Re: What do you NOT count as part of your net worth
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2017, 06:32:59 PM »
We track in Quicken, which means the net worth includes whatever DH enters - basically, bank accounts, investments, home equity, and cars.  But when I do RE math, I just look at actual investable money -- I figure we will always have cars, and we don't plan to sell the house, so it makes no sense to count those in that analysis.

Other stuff, like reimbursements, points/miles, etc. I just don't even think about.

Ocinfo

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Re: What do you NOT count as part of your net worth
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2017, 08:13:30 PM »
I include value of car (adjust downwards every 6 months or so) because we technically don't need it and could sell it at anytime. That being said it's a tiny portion of the NW.

I don't count credit card points and airline miles (~$10k worth of economy and tens of thousands if used for premium classes) but don't have a good reason why not since they are as good or better than cash for me


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catccc

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Re: What do you NOT count as part of your net worth
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2017, 11:09:56 PM »
We exclude all the stuff OP posted, plus our checking account, which usually hovers around 8K.  I also leave out our current CC balance, which is paid in full monthly and typically under 2K.  And any savings that is earmarked for a annual, semi-annual, or quarterly bill, or upcoming expenditure like a vacation.

More succinctly, here is what I do count:
Retirement investments
Taxable investments
Savings earmarked for a house down payment (because we are on the fence about buying a house at all)
Annual savings to be used for the next IRA contributions (maxed out every January)
Kids 529 accounts (I debate including this...)

Friar

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Re: What do you NOT count as part of your net worth
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2017, 03:02:46 AM »
I count everything as part of my net worth, purely because it's all tracked in YNAB and the software spits out a value.

Although I do like to see the figure climb each month I don't base my FIRE timeline on when it hits a certain figure. Thinking about it, I don't actually have a FIRE timeline yet as I feel it's still too early in the process (3 years into finding MMM) and too many variables (still planning on getting married and having child(ren??). )

Mezzie

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Re: What do you NOT count as part of your net worth
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2017, 06:15:09 AM »
I don't count cash on hand (not much) or possessions other than cars and equity in our house. I also don't count an account I made specifically for hobby expenses as I expect to wipe that out this year with gardening, sewing, and art supplies.

frugaliknowit

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Re: What do you NOT count as part of your net worth
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2017, 07:30:39 AM »
1.  The condo I live in.  A calculation of any money I would extract from the sale is highly theoretical since:  1) The value of condos here fluctuate a lot. 2)  Maximizng value would require considerable updating expense.  Plus, it's not that valuable (small 1-Br), so I just kind of keep it in the back of my mind instead of "on paper".

2.  The floating balances on my credit cards, if any (since they get paid by the end of the billing cycle).

3.  The balance of one of my checking accounts (I have 2 checking accounts one of which is super high yield (by jumping through hoops)), since it's tiny and ends up going toward #2 and other payables.

4.  Payables or receivables of any kind.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2017, 07:33:50 AM by frugaliknowit »

astvilla

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Re: What do you NOT count as part of your net worth
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2017, 08:10:28 AM »
I only count my brokerage accounts, checking account, some cash back points yet to cash in, gift cards, that's it.  Cause that's all I have.

I don't have a house or home equity.  I have a car but don't include that because a car is something you need regardless of its worth.  I don't count my clothes, or food, why count my car?

snapperdude

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Re: What do you NOT count as part of your net worth
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2017, 08:38:44 PM »
We track in Quicken, which means the net worth includes whatever DH enters - basically, bank accounts, investments, home equity, and cars.  But when I do RE math, I just look at actual investable money -- I figure we will always have cars, and we don't plan to sell the house, so it makes no sense to count those in that analysis.

Other stuff, like reimbursements, points/miles, etc. I just don't even think about.

Your avatar is super annoying when it appears.

SirOcelot

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Re: What do you NOT count as part of your net worth
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2017, 08:58:48 AM »
My net worth spreadsheet has 3 subtotals:

1. Retirement accounts (401k, IRA, HSA)
2. Liquid assets (Checking account + non-retirement brokerage accounts - credit card balance)
3. "Other"

I care about #1 because that determines progress toward FIRE, and I care about #2 because it covers immediate expenses and the need to keep its value steady-ish dictates flow into #1. 

#3 is mostly just for keeping tabs on certain accounts of interest.  I have home equity and a 529 in there, but I'm not planning to change houses in the forseeable future and the 529 should eventually get spent on the beneficiary.  I care about their value, but their relevance toward my financial planning is more indirect.  I could include other things in this group, I just don't care to.  (I don't expect any great windfalls from sale of personal property, and I think of vehicles as expenses rather than assets.)

Proud Foot

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Re: What do you NOT count as part of your net worth
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2017, 09:14:03 AM »
Here goes:
FSA funds - Nope, assume I will use/lose it all
Dental/vision reimbursement account - Nope, assume I will use/lose it all
Credit on prepay contract with the gas company
Vehicles - Include, I adjust annually based upon KBB
Other possessions  - Nope, not worth trying to calculate
Gift cards - Nope
Cash in wallet  - Nope, I don't even use the actual balance of my checkbook, just an average
PTO (even though I could sell if needed) - Nope, unable to sell PTO and company could always change policy
Anything pending (pay checks, rebates, tax returns, etc) - Nope

Bolded is how I do those things.  I do have a few investments I don't count as part of my net worth either. 

spots

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Re: What do you NOT count as part of your net worth
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2017, 11:56:43 AM »
I do not count:

Car
Coin collection
Physical possessions
Taxes on 401k (i.e., I subtract out my expected taxes upon withdrawal in retirement)
Short term savings account (use this for expense smoothing over the year, predicted to be net zero for the year)
Cash in wallet (I don't really carry any cash anyway)
529 college fund for my son

I do count:
Investment account
Savings accounts/CDs
401K (Vanguard) minus expected taxes
We sold our house and are renting.  When we had our house, I included a conservative estimate of equity minus transactions costs of selling.




BogleBoy

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Re: What do you NOT count as part of your net worth
« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2017, 01:21:28 PM »
I like having a separate portfolio/liquid assets net worth number that I can use to say I can live off 4% of this number for example and a "total" net worth number that includes illiquid items like a car or home equity.

The second total net worth number matters too. A person with a paid off car doesn't have a car payment and can do something like decide to sell it to help fund picking up and traveling the world if they want. Same with selling your home if you decide on switching to a different lifestyle. You could also have a person with an expensive home who has the option to downsize to a way cheaper home and then use the rest of the money for 4% SWR or something else, basically options the person without that asset does not have.

marty998

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Re: What do you NOT count as part of your net worth
« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2017, 03:07:17 AM »
I like having a separate portfolio/liquid assets net worth number that I can use to say I can live off 4% of this number for example and a "total" net worth number that includes illiquid items like a car or home equity.

The second total net worth number matters too. A person with a paid off car doesn't have a car payment and can do something like decide to sell it to help fund picking up and traveling the world if they want. Same with selling your home if you decide on switching to a different lifestyle. You could also have a person with an expensive home who has the option to downsize to a way cheaper home and then use the rest of the money for 4% SWR or something else, basically options the person without that asset does not have.

Yes... I do this too. Track net worth, as well as an "invested net assets" number.

Nangirl17

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Re: What do you NOT count as part of your net worth
« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2017, 11:01:42 AM »
I only count investments and house.

In my brain, the money owed to me and the cars/possessions I own are straight losses (and if I happen to be paid back, fantastic!)

golfreak12

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Re: What do you NOT count as part of your net worth
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2017, 09:17:51 PM »
Why wouldn't you include cars in your NW ?? Worst case scenario, you can take it down to CarMax for a quick sale.
If I decided that I want to retire in another country , I would sell everything I own which would be my NW.

Retire-Canada

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Re: What do you NOT count as part of your net worth
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2017, 09:37:45 PM »
Why wouldn't you include cars in your NW ?? Worst case scenario, you can take it down to CarMax for a quick sale.
If I decided that I want to retire in another country , I would sell everything I own which would be my NW.

Because I have no plans to retire in another country so I'm not going to sell my vehicle. Also because selling my vehicle would not move the needle much so it seems pointless to count it. I don't count any of the other possessions I own, which in theory could be sold for something. Same reasons I have no plans to sell those items and they wouldn't have a significant impact on my NW.

MoonLiteNite

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Re: What do you NOT count as part of your net worth
« Reply #30 on: February 13, 2017, 12:10:27 AM »
Car value and other property, like TV, computer, cell phone
Possibility of SS income
Possibility of my father dying and leaving me shittons of money + term life + work life ins....
Possibility of  my grandma. who i do not know,  dying and actually leaving me anything :D
edit
Reward points, unless i can redeem for cash, they are not cash
/edit

I include house in my networth since it is an asset for me (roommates) and i do plan on selling to push me over into FI


soccerluvof4

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Re: What do you NOT count as part of your net worth
« Reply #31 on: February 13, 2017, 04:45:01 AM »
I don't count

My Paid off house

My 529s for the kids

Any material things.

Any funds, IOU's, tax returns....anything thats not in an account.

chasesfish

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Re: What do you NOT count as part of your net worth
« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2017, 05:54:09 AM »
Interesting..

I tend not to count anything less than a couple thousand dollars (value of accrued miles, escrow account for the house) that are real assets

I also don't count home goods, as the cost of liquidating these is almost as much as their worth.

One debate - Do you count the present value of a private pension plan?  I leave mine off, but its value is low six figures if I were to replace it with an annuity purchased.  Its also fully vested if I leave and non-revokable

powersuitrecall

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Re: What do you NOT count as part of your net worth
« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2017, 11:55:22 AM »
One debate - Do you count the present value of a private pension plan?  I leave mine off, but its value is low six figures if I were to replace it with an annuity purchased.  Its also fully vested if I leave and non-revokable

We count the present value of our pensions simply because we intend on cashing them out at RE.

 

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