The Money Mustache Community
Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Ask a Mustachian => Topic started by: The Money Monk on May 28, 2017, 01:03:53 AM
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There are a lot of habits that mustachians do to save money, and I use many of them. some however, are just too annoying or whatever, and I refuse to do them. Post what yours are.
Here are mine:
- wash out ziplocs - Most of the time I don't even use them, i just use tupperware which isn't that much more expensive and can be used for decades.
- hang-dry clothing - Hang drying saves like 50 cents or less with most modern dryers. takes way to long and bothers me too much for that amount of savings. Also it doesn't work all that well here in florida, too humid.
- cut lawn with reel mower - I have a $100 mower that I have been using for years, and has many years left in it. Some people swear that reel mowers work as well (or even better!) but I am just not interested in finding out.
I know I have more, but that is all I can think of for now.
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Ride a bike. Reason = health issues = owies. Not happening.
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- Have a cheap house
- Have a short commute
Yup, a real poster boy here :)
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Bike commute often. I live in Florida and it's just too hot most of the time. I feel a lot of things to save can't be done in Florida. XD
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Bike commute. Too long, too dangerous. Much happier with the clown car.
Reel mower. Put it in the basement, happier with an electric.
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I'm not interested in biking - there are no bike lanes here, and I'm not super steady, and I'm not very fast either, so it seems like a bad plan for me. Also, it's really cold and icy here in the winter.
But I'm always surprised when people say you can't line dry laundry in Florida, because I grew up there and we didn't have a dryer. And I lived in Miami when my kids were babies, and not only didn't we have a dryer, we used cloth diapers and line dried them. And I spent several summers in the last few years at my mom's house, without a dryer. I'd say that laundry dries really, really fast there, because the sun is so intense. You just have to pay attention and get stuff off the line before the afternoon storms blow through.
I don't think line drying is a huge money saver, it's just something that's easy to be cheap about!
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We line dry in northern Illinois, although we also have a rack that gets much more use (not due to cold, but due to rain, rain, rain).
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I don't even own a bike. Biking kills my one hip. I also don't line dry my clothes anymore. I used to but my current home doesn't have enough space for drying racks and my allergies don't allow for line drying outside. Yet despite these unmustachian habits my annual spend is under 22k so I guess I can still call myself a mustachian.
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Drive a beater car or a FWD. I love Subaru's and the AWD.
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Ride a bike. We hates it, Precious.
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There are a lot of habits that mustachians do to save money, and I use many of them. some however, are just too annoying or whatever, and I refuse to do them. Post what yours are.
Here are mine:
- wash out ziplocs - Most of the time I don't even use them, i just use tupperware which isn't that much more expensive and can be used for decades.
I don't do that either. IMO, you should be using re-usable containers as much as possible when it comes to cooking. If you do that, you will rarely use Ziplocks and therefore washing them won't save you much.
I don't use a reel mower. Screw that. My yard is too big and has some hills. It's annoying as it is at times with a gas mower. Advantage of the gas mower too is I got it for free from the in-laws. They had an extra one they weren't using and as part of a housewarming gift they paid for getting it cleaned up/tuned up/blade replaced.
I DO hang dry (indoors). But that's less about me being cheap and more about it making clothes lasting longer. I *despise* clothes shopping, and the longer clothes last, the longer I don't have to buy any. It's not the cost that I hate, it's the fact that I am short and small and it's hard to find clothes my size. It makes clothes shopping take forever and feel very stressful. It doesn't matter if I'm in a high end store or a thrift store - it's always true for me.
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/tuned up/blade replaced.
I DO hang dry (indoors). But that's less about me being cheap and more about it making clothes lasting longer. I *despise* clothes shopping, and the longer clothes last, the longer I don't have to buy any. It's not the cost that I hate, it's the fact that I am short and small and it's hard to find clothes my size. It makes clothes shopping take forever and feel very stressful. It doesn't matter if I'm in a high end store or a thrift store - it's always true for me.
Ditto; it's not about the money, but about a.) preserving my clothes and b.) preserving the earth. I recently bought about 12 tops to complete my lifetime longsleeved wardrobe and I'd ideally like them to last at least a decade. I don't want them to ever pass through the dryer.
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In my mind, these are things I choose not to do. Refuse is too strong a word, as I don't care enough anymore. Well, technically, I don't need to care these days, because this MMM stuff works, it really works. I should add that I'm FIRE, but DH still works. We live on his salary and still save roughly 25%.
1. Budget - our frugal habits are pretty well ingrained by now.
2. Bike - I used to be a fairly hard-core cyclist, but now my knees are old. Also MIL w/ Alz lives with us, so not happening.
3. Worry about utility bills - I don't want to be cold in the winter.
4. Drive beater cars - Nope, don't need to. Paid for is important, but so is condition.
5. Feel guilty for adding something to my cart at the grocery store that's not on the list. The list is a memory aid only, lol.
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Ok I'll confess. I can't ride a bike. I'm 40 . I've tried. At this point too embarrassed to learn..
Re: clothes, I also hate to shop. I have plenty but I gained weight and most of my faves are now tight. Argh I know what I need to do
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I refuse to sleep in a hot room -- I am older and my internal temperature is all over the place. So I put on the A/C more than typically would be necessary for most.
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Drive only beater cars. We keep each car at least 10 years, so we usually have a 'beater' in residence, but it is not our only car. I lived with old, unreliable vehicles for years when we were poor. I'm done with that tiresome shit.
Bike. I would be happy to bike in non trafficked areas where few other people exist, but that isn't happening around here. And no way will I bike on roads with cars. Too many friends and acquaintances repeatedly injured (several permanently) or actually KILLED while biking on roads. Plus, I don't enjoy biking that much. I'm happy to walk a couple miles in decent weather.
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I really value good bikes and skis and am willing to pay for them. I think it still kind of falls within mustachianism in that I am very clear on what brings me joy and do not squander money on stuff that does not.
Another is annuals (vs perenials). I spent $200 on flowers this spring knowing that I will need to spend that every year. But again, they bring me joy.
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Drive only beater cars. We keep each car at least 10 years, so we usually have a 'beater' in residence, but it is not our only car. I lived with old, unreliable vehicles for years when we were poor. I'm done with that tiresome shit.
+1. Everything we drive has ESC, side airbags, and good front / side crash scores as a minimum. We look at it as another form of health insurance.
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I don't budget.
If it needs buying, I buy it. Some months more things need buying. That's fine.
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+3 on the NO BEATER CARS. I get that "safety is an illusion," I get that I should reduce my commute or just bike, etc. but it's not going to happen. I'm not saying everyone needs to drive a 2017 Suburban to avoid getting reduced to mush in an accident, but I definitely will not be driving a car without modern safety features.
For anyone curious, here is a 98 Corolla vs a 2015 Corolla. Just a flat out NO from me on any 90s cars.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyLE9wFl4pU (98 Corolla driver perspective)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bfau5HZ6ro (15 Corolla driver perspective)
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Ok I'll confess. I can't ride a bike. I'm 40 . I've tried. At this point too embarrassed to learn..
Re: clothes, I also hate to shop. I have plenty but I gained weight and most of my faves are now tight. Argh I know what I need to do
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Cause.
Effect.
:-)
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I lived with old, unreliable vehicles for years when we were poor. I'm done with that tiresome shit.
+1
The peace of mind that comes with knowing that your car will start and get you where you're going is worth it to me. I bought my 2009 Honda Civic new and, yes, I'll buy another new one when the time comes...years from now most likely.
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Ok I'll confess. I can't ride a bike. I'm 40 . I've tried. At this point too embarrassed to learn..
Re: clothes, I also hate to shop. I have plenty but I gained weight and most of my faves are now tight. Argh I know what I need to do
Sent from my KIW-L24 using Tapatalk
Cause.
Effect.
:-)
Ha! (facepunch taken)
I actually think I'll reconsider... one of my job sites is just 3.5 miles away too!
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I'll be real original and say biking.
Never learned how. The first and last attempt at age 19 resulted in injuries.
And besides, this is car country and I'd feel out of my comfort zone sharing the rode on a bike with the nuttery I observe daily by car drivers.
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+3 on the NO BEATER CARS. I get that "safety is an illusion," I get that I should reduce my commute or just bike, etc. but it's not going to happen. I'm not saying everyone needs to drive a 2017 Suburban to avoid getting reduced to mush in an accident, but I definitely will not be driving a car without modern safety features.
For anyone curious, here is a 98 Corolla vs a 2015 Corolla. Just a flat out NO from me on any 90s cars.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyLE9wFl4pU (98 Corolla driver perspective)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bfau5HZ6ro (15 Corolla driver perspective)
Earlier this year my wife and I were T-boned and flipped upside down in our 2013 Subaru. We both walked away with only minor airbag burns and some bruises. Can't say what would have happened if we were in a beater, but I sure am glad I didn't have to find out.
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+3 on the NO BEATER CARS. I get that "safety is an illusion," I get that I should reduce my commute or just bike, etc. but it's not going to happen. I'm not saying everyone needs to drive a 2017 Suburban to avoid getting reduced to mush in an accident, but I definitely will not be driving a car without modern safety features.
For anyone curious, here is a 98 Corolla vs a 2015 Corolla. Just a flat out NO from me on any 90s cars.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyLE9wFl4pU (98 Corolla driver perspective)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bfau5HZ6ro (15 Corolla driver perspective)
Earlier this year my wife and I were T-boned and flipped upside down in our 2013 Subaru. We both walked away with only minor airbag burns and some bruises. Can't say what would have happened if we were in a beater, but I sure am glad I didn't have to find out.
Considering the fact that recent Subarus (and nearly all recent vehicles (http://www.thecarcrashdetective.com/best-practices-driving-technique-vehicle-selection-road-design/)) have roofs designed to support 4x vehicle weight specifically to avoid roof collapse in rollovers, and virtually no cars made before around 2008 were designed this way (the federal standard was and continues to be 1.5x vehicle weight, which is rubbish), there's a good chance you and your wife would either have suffered death, lifelong brain damage, or paralyses due to broken necks, crushed skulls, etc. That's ignoring the near-guarantee of brain damage or death for whoever was on the near side of the T-bone, had the Subaru not had a good side impact score and side airbags with head/torso protection. Car crashes are terrible, life-altering things and not where I want life as cheap as possible for my family.
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Considering the fact that recent Subarus (and nearly all recent vehicles (http://www.thecarcrashdetective.com/best-practices-driving-technique-vehicle-selection-road-design/)) have roofs designed to support 4x vehicle weight specifically to avoid roof collapse in rollovers, and virtually no cars made before around 2008 were designed this way (the federal standard was and continues to be 1.5x vehicle weight, which is rubbish), there's a good chance you and your wife would either have suffered death, lifelong brain damage, or paralyses due to broken necks, crushed skulls, etc. That's ignoring the near-guarantee of brain damage or death for whoever was on the near side of the T-bone, had the Subaru not had a good side impact score and side airbags with head/torso protection. Car crashes are terrible, life-altering things and not where I want life as cheap as possible for my family.
Yikes, I'm doubly glad, then. What's crazy is that we were hit hard enough to flip us by a much smaller car and yet the impact dent pushed inward maybe ~1.5-2 inches (other driver was also uninjured). It's crazy how well modern cars are engineered and I am definitely always buying new or recent model year used looking forward. There are plenty of other ways to save money and I refuse to feel bad about paying a couple thousand extra to ensure my family is protected by the best modern safety features.
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Buy a Honda Fit.
I love my 4x4 and I go places with it. :)
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-- Commute by bicycle. It's 16 miles to my job on major roads where I would be killed by big trucks if I didn't drive. I do ride my bicycle everywhere I go in town and to nearby towns, though.
-- Live close to work. That would cost me approximately $400,000 more than the house where I currently live, so it's not worth it.
-- Eat lentils. Ew.
-- Buy a beater shitbox car. Yeah, I know it was a lot more expensive, but I paid cash for a new car six years ago and I've had zero mechanical issues with it while driving it 10,000 miles per year on average. The reliability is worth it to me.
-- Use Republic/Ting/Other Cheapo cell phone service. I get unlimited 4GLTE with Verizon for $75/mo. It's worth it to me to never have to depend on free wifi when I'm out.
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Bike in cold or wet weather: just not that badass I guess, and I have Reynaud's
Use a bike trailer: I live on a busy highway with gravel shoulders, at the top of a big hill. I am huffing and puffing on my own. I would do this if I lived in a different location.
Paleo diet: the science seems fuzzy and I can keep my weight down without it
Cloth diapers: maybe if I didn't have to work. The prospect of washing them out at the end of a 12+ hour day seems ridiculous
Voluntary discomfort things with no foreseeable benefit: just no.
Per the other topics on here, I do line dry the clothes and I use reusable containers instead of Ziplocs
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Bike. I live in the suburbs. I like it here. Biking is not happening.
Hanging laundry. Dh does it sometimes and I hate it. The laundry is crunchy, and the lint and dog hair are still on it. If he hangs it in the basement it smells musty.
Beater cars. I buy inexpensive new cars and keep them for a long time.
I also use Verizon, after trying many other options.
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I love these replies, I feel in good company.
Mine are all kinda related to housing
- Live ~14 miles from work in central London. Hell no, I'm not living in the noisy, expensive urban sprawl
- Have more house than I need. Yes I have a 3 bed semi for me (although do have a lodger). I really love a garden, and decent gardens come with bigger houses
- Biking. See above 14 miles commute - I do public transport which is a happy medium
I'm kind of in sync with some of the other tenets
- High savings rate
- Cooking own food - although fussyness also helps here
- Library Lover
- Hiking Fan
- Never pay retail
- DIY'r
- And most importantly, spending money on what actually brings me joy. In my case theatre and travel
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I have exactly zero qualms about paying for experiences I enjoy.
Recent examples: I bought Hamilton tickets for more than it cost for an entire season of shows at my favorite theater (which, of course, I also bought). I'm going to buy a Knott's season pass so I can master their rated G Westworld-esque interactive experience with my sisters and catch a bunch of melodrama and improv shows while there.
Basically, I live for live performances: theater, symphonies, jazz combos, dance, rock concerts. I love my job, thank goodness, but I need the arts (which I enjoy with family and friends) in addition to that to feel like I'm really alive.
I think cutting down on spending overall has helped me discover what spending truly makes me happy.
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Like many, I'll cop to owning a 2014 Subaru that I bought new (hey my prior car was totaled) for my 6 mile commute. I don't even own a bike right now, my last one got stolen at college 12 years ago. Since the car is paid off and I don't put too many miles on it,I imagine I can keep it for many years to come.
I have an expensive ice cream habit right now- the kind I like is 4-5$ per pint. (I'm a lifetime Weught Watchers person- low points does not mean cheap!)
And yes I have cable (even HBO and Showtime), but I don't have DVR. Although once my current contract pricing ends in August I'm going to try to cancel unless evil Comcast can match the price I want to pay.
I pay landscapers to mow my lawn. I have a steep hill in my backyard and I frequently slip while gardening or watering so I prefer to outsource. They come every other week as a nod to saving money.
I use those plastic disposable containers for my lunches (I kinda meal prep) instead of Pyrex because that's what I currently have at my house. I used to have a set of Pyrex but over the years it has disappeared.
I also have a bunch of my net worth in individual stocks (gasp!) because it has been passed down from my family. I'm ok with this.
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You will pry my air conditioning from my (hopefully) cold, dead hands.
I do hang some laundry if I know it will be adversely affected by the dryer, other than that, no.
If I ate beans and rice all the time I'd be even fatter than I am now.
I will DIY very minor things, but gladly pay someone for the big things.
Seriously, EFF Craigslist. People be crazy there.
What we do:
Cricket phone service ($70/month for two phones).
Cook at home. We've only eaten in restaurants twice this year and one meal was paid for by Mr. Mandalay's department VP. Besides, I like to make food.
Drive older cars. Mine is a 2008 Toyota RAV4, looks great, runs like a dream, >56,000 miles. Mr. Mandalay drives a 2001 Honda CR-V with 163,000 miles. We did have some work done on it recently in preparation for the 750-mile drive to Orlando, but it runs great as well and looks pretty decent for its age.
No cable.
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Drive a beater car or a FWD. I love Subaru's and the AWD.
Here is another Mustachian preferring a Subaru. We also have a small Suzuki as a second car. In our neighbourhood we need a good car with 4WD to get home in the winter.
I hate beater cars too. Cars need to be reliable. On the other hand, a cheap car can be reliable as well. That Suzuki of ours was bought 10 years old and has proved to be reliable.
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I don't budget.
If it needs buying, I buy it. Some months more things need buying. That's fine.
Me too. Budgets are in my eyes for people who don't control what they buy. But as long as I shop carefully, they is no need to budget for me.
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My "not going to do it" is minimize the commute distance by living close to work.
I live in the mountains, surrounded by pine forest, which is a drive of 23 miles to downtown and work. (18 by bicycle, which I do once or twice a week.) I can mountain bike or hike right from my door. Downtown is a shit hole IMHO, and I never go there except for work. No way am I going to live there.
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Bulk buying. My house is tiny, and if I bought in bulk, it would look like a hoarder's house. Although if I ever design my own (small) house I would include a decent sized pantry.
Living in a poorer neighborhood. I live in a 3rd world violent country, so I will stick with my upper middle class area.
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I'll join others in the 'no biking' chorus. Where I live it's not safe (we've had a lot of kids hit this year :( ), so I happily drive my new Fit.
I also don't budget, I spend more on good food, I don't mind paying for experiences and I run my A/C. I've had enough 'beaters' to last a lifetime, so no more of those either!
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I don't live near work.
1) It would be in a city - I am not a city person. It is too loud, too polluted, too busy
2) It would double the commute for my boyfriend
3) It is crazy expensive
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We have more than one child and plan on having more than that!
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Make my own pizza. It's always a last minute, don't wanna cook and clean thing for us, and we can get a good pizza for $7. They make it, I bring it home and bake it, and we have enough leftovers for lunch too.
I tried biking, just on the paths around here (no commute), and between the strollers and dogs with long leashes it's horrid. I'd rather walk. Plus I fell twice.
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Ah the pizza thing. Dh makes pizza but I refuse. The whole point of pizza is that I want quick, relatively cheap, tasty take-out. Homemade pizza is never as good as take-out. He raves about his and it is OK but I'd rather have take-out.
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This will probably sound like heresy, but retire early. I discovered MMM long after I had chosen a career (academia) largely because I wanted a job that I could do for the rest of my life, and also after the purchase of a house that I fully admit now is probably too large for two people. I suppose I could retire very soon given how much I previously saved and also how our expenses have diminished since I started my path under MMM's able guidance. As an academic I have a lot of discretion regarding how I spend my time. I think MMM's lessons on how to optimize living have wide applicability for everyone, not merely those who are focused on early retirement. I've wondered from time to time whether somewhere in the blog there should be a special section for Gray Mustaschians (individuals who come to MMM later in life) and SWAMIs.
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1. Budget - never made one, never felt the need to. I spend very little, but always according to my exact needs or values. Nothing more, nothing less.
2. Currently live in-town in a small loft condo with my partner. However, we don't want to raise a family in the city, so we're looking for a place outside, with a huge amount of forested land. It's the only thing we aren't willing to compromise on.
3. Pay for activities we love. These tend to be cheap (camping, playing outside), but I'll happily pay for entrance to a park without hesitation.
Everything else, high savings rate, eating cheaply, low-cost car, etc... I'm on board.
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Biking - It's uncomfortable, I don't feel safe, and I'd rather walk. Plus I don't feel like cramming a bike into my tiny apartment (or paying $80/yr to keep it in the building's storage area).
Short commute - I love where I live, and my 1.5-2 hr. bus/train commute is fine, and my job pays for (most of) it. I can read, sleep, do homework... whatever I'd be doing at home, really. Plus I only do this 3 days per week.
Line/hang dry - No room. And I hate laundry/ the last thing I want to do is prolong the experience.
Never eat out - I like being able to give people money and they give me prepared food. This goes all the way from McDonalds (occasionally) to fancier places (we fully anticipate that our anniversary dinner will be $200-300, but we enjoy it immensely and budget for it accordingly). That said, I do cook most meals at home and almost always bring my breakfast/lunch from home.
Retire early - At FI, I plan to quit my well-paying job and go do work I'm interested in. Work in a tea store, work in a game store, dog walker/sitter/trainer, baker, etc.
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I've wondered from time to time whether somewhere in the blog there should be a special section for Gray Mustaschians (individuals who come to MMM later in life) and SWAMIs.
There is a thread for those who discovered MMM over the age of 40, independent on hair colour.
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-Commute- DH drives 42 miles each way. I drive 12 miles each way in the opposite direction. It would probably make sense for me to get a new job and for us to both live in the city he works in. But we've built a nice life here, and don't want to take the kids out of school etc.
-3,000 square foot suburban house for a family of four. Much more than we need but we wanted to be in this neighborhood for the schools and the other families we love.
-Cable TV- it's a must for DH. He loves his sports. At this point I don't think cutting it would affect our FIRE date enough to argue about it.
-Thrifting- the only thing I have successfully bought second hand is wood furniture and cars. If I happen upon something I need in a neighborhood sale or something great, but I find thrifting to be a time suck. And I don't have enough time.
-Biking- not gonna happen. I could never commute by bike in this city with an 8 and 4 year old. I don't really enjoy biking enough for exercise to own one. I prefer to walk, go for a jog or take a long hike.
-Line drying my clothes- smells nice, but right now my time is more valuable then the small savings this would bring. Pretty sure I would get some crazy looks in the neighborhood anyway.
But when we RE- ALL of the above will be reconsidered. Ok, maybe all of the above except biking. Pretty firm on that one.
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As a teenager I biked 30 kms a day to and from school. Later, when I lived and worked in the same town, I biked everywhere. Now, here in Norway I bike seldom to work. I should do it more, but are not so motivated. I would cycle small roads that are verry hilly and very narrow. And some of the cars and utility vehicles are not so carefull. But I do walk a lot to work. It takes at least twice as much time as cycling, but I can walk through a forest for half the time, which I find pleasant. I know I could cycle through the forest, but this requires terrain cycling which I am dreadfull at. Maybe I will walk/cycle through the forest tomorrow to save some some on half the way. Or I could drive and spend my saved time and doing household errands (clean windows and bathrooms) ir working in the garden that is full of weed.
I still spend money on a certain amount of unhealthy food in the form of candies.
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I refuse to prepare lunch and bring it to work. On average, I spend about $10 per lunch. I live in a HCOL area and all my peers spend about the same or more on lunches. Some of them also buy dinners and even breakfasts. I always make my own breakfast and dinner, but I can't be bothered making my own lunch.
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Drive a hatchback.
Eat oatmeal for breakfast.
Drink smoothies for breakfast.
Turn down the heat in the winter.
Budget (never found it necessary)
Buy old cars, for the same reasons as everyone else. I kept my last car for 20 years. I am enjoying my new luxemobile very much.
Invest 100% in stocks.
Work after I retire.
Voluntary discomfort things with no foreseeable benefit: just no.
Yup. There's enough discomfort in my hobbies--either incidental (gardening) or a major part (strenuous bicycling)--and in life that I feel no need to create more discomfort just to harden myself the F up.
I also own individual stocks, which (gasp) pay dividends; buy special clothes just for bicycling; and mow the lawn with an electric mower (but it only cost $15 at a garage sale).
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Bike - I hate biking and I live way too far from work
Drive a beater - I actually just bought a new NEW car, but it will be the car my teenagers will eventually drive a couple years down the road so I'm down with all the modern safety features I can get
Hang Dry - three kids, three adults, two dogs, a cat and we live in the woods - we probably do at least 10 loads a week, often more - being outdoorsy creates a lot of dirty clothes
Always eat in - nope, we eat out as a couple at least once a month, it's our time to reconnect and recoup our sanity; as a family about once a month somewhere reasonable (i.e. red robin, the local dive restaurant...)
Down size - our house (with a freaking inground pool with spa) is 2800 sq ft with another 1100 sq ft fully finished basement 'apartment' that my mom resides in, 2.5 acres, by MMM standards it's a McMansion but I have no regrets
Reel mower - see above - it would take a week...
Cable!
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Wow. Taking an informal survey of earlier posts, it looks like biking and line-drying, in that order, took a real beating.
Biking: As an avid (evangelical, though I am getting marginally better at keeping my mouth shut. OK, not all that much better) 58-year-old female cyclist (who rides cheapo beater bikes summer and winter in the heart of clown-car country, Canada), may I timidly suggest the purchase of a used beater bike, and some exploratory trips around your respective neighbourhoods, even if only to the corner store, to take baby steps to maybe expand your horizons and your confidence? Do you need to keep your wits about you at all times? Yes, of course you do. But the fitness benefits, savings, freedom, convenience (believe it or not) and badassity are all (IMHO) worth it. I really hope you try it, for the sake of the planet if nothing else. Please, don't say "never". You don't need to be an athlete and you don't need special clothes. Even in hot climates, you'll get a nice breeze on the bike with minimal effort. Even if it's sweltering or freezing, there are always workarounds, and such workarounds (washcloth, change of clothing, etc.) will fit in panniers or a knapsack.
Line drying: We use indoor drying racks and we do one load per week for two people. Two loads when we wash the sheets. Hanging clothes is really not that difficult. As other posters have noted, it preserves the life of the clothes. For you outdoorsy-types: even the CEO of Levi Strauss only washes his jeans twice a year or so. Plus, we have stoopid bamboo flooring and rack-drying helps to keep the humidity level, though I can appreciate it if it doesn't work in a high-humidity climate.
As for the non-Mustachian things we do: we don't budget - habits are so ingrained that the savings take care of themselves. We also travel. And (shame ) we've been holding too much in high interest savings accounts this past year for fear of getting into ETFs at the wrong time.
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1. We don't bike commute. We live about 17 miles from DH's work, and I take public transportation to my work. We compromise by being a single car family.
2. We liberally use both washer and dryer.
3. We eat out probably 3 or 4 times a month.
4. We have a large discretionary budget of like $200 per month to use on hobbies and unnecessary fun stuff. DH likes drone racing and building computers and other little projects, and DH puttering around happily makes me happy, so it's money well spent.
5. Getting a small apartment close to work. We have a larger apartment and are paying more than we *could* be (ie we could live in a studio just fine and pay $800, but instead we live further away in a larger, sunnier apartment paying $1100), but we are happy to pay a bit more than necessary for a nice place.
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I agree with the people who posted about beater cars. I have had to have several true jalopies when I was younger (by necessity) and I don't want to have to go back to that.
My current car only cost $6500, so its not like I spent a lot, but I am not going back to a real junker just to save a few grand.
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- Have a cheap house
- Have a short commute
Yup, a real poster boy here :)
Laughed at this more than I should have.
Also, you have a paid-for house, cheap or not! And your commute is about to get shorter.
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I refuse to be a liberal. I refuse to "credit card hack".
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I refuse to sleep in a hot room -- I am older and my internal temperature is all over the place. So I put on the A/C more than typically would be necessary for most.
Me too! Except not old. If it's above 30C/86F, then my aircon is on. All day. But we have mild winters, so I've never used a heater, so I figure it's like cold people using heaters. My partner doesn't like breathing in dust (we live across the road (seriously, it's 50m/165ft) from an open cut mine) so even sometimes when it's not hot we'll have the aircon on instead of opening a window
Grocery budgeting. I don't really care about the cost of produce... meh. If I want bananas & they're more expensive than normal, I don't give a shit, I'm still going to buy them.
Sport. It's one of my bigger categories (~$1200/yr?) But I'm not gonna give up sport just to save money.
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Commute by bicycle. I love recreational cycling and notch up around 10,000 miles a year using my bikes as playthings, but I live 16 miles from my workplace (and the nature of my job is such that working in my home town would be all manner of awkward), have long and tiring work days during which I have to be alert and presentable and not tired or stoned on exercise endorphins, and am contractually obliged to own and maintain a car for work. And we get some seriously unpleasant weather. I do, however, have a fuel-efficient little car that a family member kindly gave me.
Sell off all my shiny bikes, replace them with one second-hand beater, and invest the proceeds in my pension.
Eat eggs as my source of protein. I have a lifelong aversion to eggs in any form except disguised in cake, and having cake as my source of protein, while appealing, would be odd beyond measure.
Wear the same shirt for a week, a month, or whatever without washing it.
Seek out discomfort for its own sake. I've given birth four times; I have nothing to prove.
Have squashed sandwiches from my jersey pocket and water for lunch when I'm out on long bike rides instead of stopping at a tearoom for coffee and something freshly made.
Regard facepunching as acceptable, either as the puncher or as the face.
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As I was making my coffee this morning I discovered another one:
I put milk and Splenda in my coffee!!
Worse, I buy Splenda packets!! Call the facepunchers!
But I buy them for the convenience of office life, since most of my coffee is currently consumed at work. But when my job goes away very soon, I'll consider buying the big bag of Splenda and using a spoon.
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Cars. Cars cars cars. I love cars. Not even appropriate safe/reliable cars, like Subarus and Hondas. I love driving. I love a stick shift. I love a hard brake and a downshift into a corner. I just traded one stupid car for another one that is even stupider, and it is magnificent and joyous and so solid I couldn't run it off the road if I tried. The best part is it is AWD, not RWD, so now I don't have to give it up in the winter, and I get to drive it every. single. day. For the rest of my life. Or at least until my back/knees go and I can no longer get in/out or drive a stick.
My mom looked at me sadly and said, "clearly I should have bought you more toys when you were younger." But, you know, our plans are on track, I have wanted this car for 30+ years, and I could write a check for it and still have plenty in the emergency fund. So fuck it.
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^^^ Porsche 911 C4S?
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^^^ Porsche 911 C4S?
Close -- GTS. :-) Convertible, naturally-aspirated.
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^^^ Porsche 911 C4S?
Close -- GTS. :-) Convertible, naturally-aspirated.
I didn't know the GTS was AWD. Maybe I'm thinking of the GT3 as the one that is RWD only...
I've looked at and drooled over Caymans for several years. Just can't quite bring myself to do it.
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^^^ Porsche 911 C4S?
Close -- GTS. :-) Convertible, naturally-aspirated.
I didn't know the GTS was AWD. Maybe I'm thinking of the GT3 as the one that is RWD only...
I've looked at and drooled over Caymans for several years. Just can't quite bring myself to do it.
Correct, the GT3 is RWD; it also comes only in a coupe and only in an automatic, which is awesome on the track but sucks the fun out of daily driving (although I've heard the new version will offer a stick). The GTS is just a trim package on the regular 911, very similar to the S/4S model, but a little more performance-tuned (but not all the way to the Turbo level).
I still can't believe I pulled the trigger -- I'm the one who fantasizes forever but never actually *does* it. The only good thing I can say is at least it was used. :-) Let's just say it looked a little out of place in the Aldi's parking lot this weekend. . . .
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Wow. Taking an informal survey of earlier posts, it looks like biking and line-drying, in that order, took a real beating.
Biking: As an avid (evangelical, though I am getting marginally better at keeping my mouth shut. OK, not all that much better) 58-year-old female cyclist (who rides cheapo beater bikes summer and winter in the heart of clown-car country, Canada), may I timidly suggest the purchase of a used beater bike, and some exploratory trips around your respective neighbourhoods, even if only to the corner store, to take baby steps to maybe expand your horizons and your confidence? Do you need to keep your wits about you at all times? Yes, of course you do. But the fitness benefits, savings, freedom, convenience (believe it or not) and badassity are all (IMHO) worth it. I really hope you try it, for the sake of the planet if nothing else. Please, don't say "never". You don't need to be an athlete and you don't need special clothes. Even in hot climates, you'll get a nice breeze on the bike with minimal effort. Even if it's sweltering or freezing, there are always workarounds, and such workarounds (washcloth, change of clothing, etc.) will fit in panniers or a knapsack.
Line drying: We use indoor drying racks and we do one load per week for two people. Two loads when we wash the sheets. Hanging clothes is really not that difficult. As other posters have noted, it preserves the life of the clothes. For you outdoorsy-types: even the CEO of Levi Strauss only washes his jeans twice a year or so. Plus, we have stoopid bamboo flooring and rack-drying helps to keep the humidity level, though I can appreciate it if it doesn't work in a high-humidity climate.
As for the non-Mustachian things we do: we don't budget - habits are so ingrained that the savings take care of themselves. We also travel. And (shame ) we've been holding too much in high interest savings accounts this past year for fear of getting into ETFs at the wrong time.
All true. And I grew up riding a bike, so it's not like I can't do it. But for those kind of local trips, I walk. Also, did you miss the fact that I've had multiple friends and acquaintances injured and one killed by motorists while biking? It's going to be hard for me to ever convince myself that biking is safer than walking.
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Bike commute often. I live in Florida and it's just too hot most of the time. I feel a lot of things to save can't be done in Florida. XD
THIS. I simply cannot do the bike thing.
I know there are Mustachians here in FL who also bike and I've asked how in heaven's name they manage and got some interesting answers but I sweat just walking to my car and this is not an exaggeration. Then again, I do perspire more than the average person.
Another one for me, is never eating out. I actually enjoy going to restaurants and trying new foods. I definitely have limited this but I am one of those people that really likes conversation over food.
PS. Plus I must be the one person in the universe who knows how to ride a bike but absolutely derives no joy in bike riding. I simply do not particularly like riding bikes.
Another is definitely living close to work. All the apartments near work are luxury apartments and expensive houses. I work close to a fancy mall so the neighborhood is luxurious. Even having a roommate close to work was in the $700 range and up.
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we make a lot of money and optimize alot of what we do. but as far as mustachian things we dont do
1. big house
2. long commute
3. commute by car
4. own a boat
5. use an electric mower
6. use a clothes dryer
we have really high incomes in a LCOL so we'll work til the rip old age of 37 to afford all these luxuries our whole life.
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I don't bike either.
I chose to live in a suburb just under 15 miles from work, the closer I get to work the crappier the area becomes. No thanks.
I don't DIY much around the house, I'm not good at it naturally and not eager to learn. Living in a fairly small (800 sf) condo helps here. I'm not allowed to do anything to the exterior, and any materials and labor based on sq feet is cheaper with a smaller space.
I don't budget. I have money automatically taken out for investing and do as I please with the rest. If I spend less than I expect and find my bank account growing I will pull a chunk out to invest.
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Drive a 4wd. Now I don't drive much and I drive an old old truck but I find it so useful on occasion that I can't imagine not having it.
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I live 13 miles from work and commute by car. I could pay four times as much for a smaller house and live a block away, or twice as much for a smaller house and live 7-10 miles away. That doesn't pencil out for me. Also my GF travels a lot for work and the highways near our house make more sense for her.
Multiple Australian Shepherds.
We've graduated from $700-1000 beaters to $2000-3000 "beaters." Total cost per mile ends up slightly higher, but with fewer headaches (theoretically) and my GF is self-employed and in a pretty "cater to the rich" field therefore unfortunately has to drive something "presentable" for clients.
We do use the damn clothes dryer. It's gas and cheap to run.
GF and I are on our second (first is now a rental and paid-off) house bought as an unmarried couple, which everyone tells you not to do.
I finally retired the (busted up) reel mower last week and now use a loud gasoline-powered allergy machine. Every relationship has compromises. I will not die on that hill.
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Soak dry beans. I totally get it and the intention is there, but it NEVER happens. My SO and I have a bag of dry black beans beans that I think we've had for 8 months (including 1 move). The few cents we'd save over canned beans just isn't worth it; it's not going to happen.
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Soak dry beans. I totally get it and the intention is there, but it NEVER happens. My SO and I have a bag of dry black beans beans that I think we've had for 8 months (including 1 move). The few cents we'd save over canned beans just isn't worth it; it's not going to happen.
instant pot solves the problem pays for itself in a year. i didnt do it either till i got one.
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Bike commute – the weather here sucks for biking most of the year, and the narrow roads, high level of traffic, lack of bike lanes and paths, and long commutes make it a fool’s errand for most people. I also refuse to bike to do my shopping as I don’t feel safe biking along these roads with my toddler in tow. Bikers get hit all the time around here. A few years ago someone was killed right outside my old work place. If I had no kids and a better biking environment I probably would for some errands, but it’s just not worth the risk or the hassle in the current circumstances. I spend a lot of time walking and doing physical chores so I’m not worried about getting extra moderate level exercise.
Budget/track receipts –– as long as we hit all of our aggressive savings and financial goals for the year, we don’t worry about tracking our expenses. We have optimized our expenses over the years and know we are not being extravagant. We don’t need to micromanage our spending ontop of these efforts.
Squeeze into small cars – my husband has a sedan for commuting, but I drive a Rav4. Sure, I could try to cram my stroller and two carseats into a prius or civic on a daily basis, and then take 2 cars every single time we go anywhere with the big dogs or need to pick up big items….but why? The Rav is a great size, fits everyone and everything, is paid off, and the extra gas expense is negligible due to the fact that I’m a SAHM and only drive short distances with it. The car is 10yrs old and we plan on running it into the ground. I love my Rav.
Outdoor line drying – our yard is near the woods and there are a ton of spiders on the property. Line drying is a great way to cover all your fresh laundry in the creepers. Tried it, and yes it sucked. No way I’m doing that anymore. I do some indoor drying but also use the dryer too…we just don’t have enough indoor drying racks or space to air dry huge loads of laundry.
For me, mustachianism isn’t always about what’s “greenest” or “cheapest” – it’s about what offers a person the most value and quality of life in a current circumstance. For all of the above, it’s clear to me what offers the most value and what is just going to be a huge PITA for little gain. I am totally happy and willing to forgo cable in favor for internet streaming and Netflix, or eat in 90% of the time for health and cost savings. But putting my toddler at increased risk of getting hit by a car just to save a little gas money or to be a bit more eco-friendly while running errands? Fuck no.
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Soak dry beans. I totally get it and the intention is there, but it NEVER happens. My SO and I have a bag of dry black beans beans that I think we've had for 8 months (including 1 move). The few cents we'd save over canned beans just isn't worth it; it's not going to happen.
instant pot solves the problem pays for itself in a year. i didnt do it either till i got one.
+2. Literally. I wanted the 8-quart IP, but the Black Friday sale on the 6-quart IP was so good that two were cheaper than one, lol. Comes in handy. Since I cook almost every meal at home, I actually do use them both at times. Typically, the two at once scenario is black beans in one and ground beef for tacos in the other. We eat tacos at least once a week and it's my go-to cheap meal for casual gatherings.
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I drive 100 miles a day to my workplace. Worth every penny to wake up and go surf 🏄
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Soak dry beans. I totally get it and the intention is there, but it NEVER happens. My SO and I have a bag of dry black beans beans that I think we've had for 8 months (including 1 move). The few cents we'd save over canned beans just isn't worth it; it's not going to happen.
instant pot solves the problem pays for itself in a year. i didnt do it either till i got one.
+2. Literally. I wanted the 8-quart IP, but the Black Friday sale on the 6-quart IP was so good that two were cheaper than one, lol. Comes in handy. Since I cook almost every meal at home, I actually do use them both at times. Typically, the two at once scenario is black beans in one and ground beef for tacos in the other. We eat tacos at least once a week and it's my go-to cheap meal for casual gatherings.
Maybe if we settle down a little bit. Currently we've been moving with just my Subaru so everything's gotta fit. I don't think we have room for another slip of paper in that car. Thanks for the suggestions though, will check it out!
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1. Won't drive a beater, but did buy used 2015 last year thanks to MMM. I don't know how to repair my car and don't want to learn.
2. Bike to work...Not gonna happen...no way...I'd be roadkill day one
3. Line dry the majority of my clothes. I dry some of them if needed to protect the fabric.
4. Give up A/C. I do try to keep it set on 77. Any higher...nope...people would die.
I do take my lunch most days and cook at home the majority of the time. I'm trying to spend my money on things/experiences that truly enrich my life and not engage in "retail therapy".
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At what age does a car become a beater? It sounds like some people refuse to drive a beater, so they purchase a new(er) car.
In the last nine months, I have had to replace a couple tires and a caliper in my beater. It looks great and feels great with a sunroof, navigation, 30 mpg, and very smooth over 100 mph. This vehicle cost less than $4k and will be ten years old next year.
I do not see the value in spending more for a depreciating asset that happens to be newer. If I spend more money on a vehicle, it will be something unique and fun, that will hold it's value, so it can be sold for the same or more than I originally invested. How do you define a beater vehicle to justify buying such a new vehicle?
I would like to have a job closer to home to allow for cycling.
I have not attempted clothes drying outside or in a basement. Is it really worth the extra dollars saved?
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Soak dry beans. I totally get it and the intention is there, but it NEVER happens. My SO and I have a bag of dry black beans beans that I think we've had for 8 months (including 1 move). The few cents we'd save over canned beans just isn't worth it; it's not going to happen.
Soaking them really doesn't make too much difference in cooking time anyway.
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At what age does a car become a beater? It sounds like some people refuse to drive a beater, so they purchase a new(er) car.
In the last nine months, I have had to replace a couple tires and a caliper in my beater. It looks great and feels great with a sunroof, navigation, 30 mpg, and very smooth over 100 mph. This vehicle cost less than $4k and will be ten years old next year.
I do not see the value in spending more for a depreciating asset that happens to be newer. If I spend more money on a vehicle, it will be something unique and fun, that will hold it's value, so it can be sold for the same or more than I originally invested. How do you define a beater vehicle to justify buying such a new vehicle?
I would like to have a job closer to home to allow for cycling.
I have not attempted clothes drying outside or in a basement. Is it really worth the extra dollars saved?
Can't speak for everyone, but I think for many of us it's safety concerns more than reliability. I have always bought used, but generally still recent model years. As noted above, my wife and I literally could be paralyzed/dead right now if we had been driving an older car when we got in our accident. Instead, everyone walked away practically unscathed.
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I walk and public-transit most places but if the weather's shitty I will pay for a cab rather than toughing out the 15-30 min. wait for a bus in pouring down rain/snow/freezing cold.
I don't make beans or bread from scratch. Nor do I make my own laundry detergent any more. I tried it once but the clothes just didn't seem clean.
We live in an apartment that's larger and more expensive than we strictly need, and we love it.
You will pry my makeup and not-found-in-nature hair color - which gets done by a professional, GASP - from my cold dead hands.
I will also buy new clothes from time to time, not from resale or thrift store.
I won't buy most furniture on Craigslist. We have a serious bedbug problem in my city and I think it doesn't make sense to score a great deal on furniture and then have to pay a few grand for bedbug extermination.
We own 3 macs. I have an iphone and I love it.
I don't compost. I've tried a couple times - indoors (grew mold and had to be tossed) and outdoors at our current apartment that we moved into last month, which has yard space. Our landlord suggested we make a compost pile. I started one. We have developed a SERIOUS fly problem and I suspect it's the compost. Maybe I did something wrong? I didn't put anything in there other than fruit/veg scraps, though. But I'm thinking that maybe we should stop throwing shit out there for a while. So yes, for the foreseeable future I will be buying the amazing bagged compost that makes my tomatoes go insane and bear lots, for $$$$$.
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Budget/track receipts –– as long as we hit all of our aggressive savings and financial goals for the year, we don’t worry about tracking our expenses. We have optimized our expenses over the years and know we are not being extravagant. We don’t need to micromanage our spending on top of these efforts.
Me too, I feel so bad when I see the case studies and folks know exactly how much they spend in each category. I know how much I save and feel good about the percentage, so as long as everything else evens out, I'm not motivated to track more closely.
I like how this thread shows there is no one path for mustachians.
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I drive a 2003 Toyota Corolla and have been primarily a bike commuter for most of the last decade. I'm surprised at the car and bike responses because that part of Mustachianism resonates with me a lot.
I will likely never live in LCOL. I enjoy the city too much.
I won't skimp on insurance, especially car and life insurance.
I have a couple chronic illnesses and think the advice that taking good care of yourself equals low healthcare costs is ridiculously naive.
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Commute by bicycle. I love recreational cycling and notch up around 10,000 miles a year using my bikes as playthings, but I live 16 miles from my workplace (and the nature of my job is such that working in my home town would be all manner of awkward), have long and tiring work days during which I have to be alert and presentable and not tired or stoned on exercise endorphins, and am contractually obliged to own and maintain a car for work. And we get some seriously unpleasant weather. I do, however, have a fuel-efficient little car that a family member kindly gave me.
Sell off all my shiny bikes, replace them with one second-hand beater, and invest the proceeds in my pension.
Eat eggs as my source of protein. I have a lifelong aversion to eggs in any form except disguised in cake, and having cake as my source of protein, while appealing, would be odd beyond measure.
Wear the same shirt for a week, a month, or whatever without washing it.
Seek out discomfort for its own sake. I've given birth four times; I have nothing to prove.
Have squashed sandwiches from my jersey pocket and water for lunch when I'm out on long bike rides instead of stopping at a tearoom for coffee and something freshly made.
Regard facepunching as acceptable, either as the puncher or as the face.
Ha! Good point!
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Seek out discomfort for its own sake. I've given birth four times; I have nothing to prove.
Ha! Good point!
Totally true.
And yet I have found the stoicism part to be the most helpful overall to my mindset, because it is useful to remind myself that I still *can* do that hard stuff. It's like back when I was running and there was this hella hard, long hill ["real" runners would scoff at the gentle incline, but the 1.3K length made it freaking impossible for me], and I would plod up it and say, over and over, "I pushed out a baby with a failed epidural, I can make it up this motherfucking hill." And I did, every time.
Tl;dr: I don't have to prove anything to anyone. But sometimes it's still helpful to remind myself what I am capable of.
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I have a long commute (like 55 minutes each way). I used to live in the city and rode my bike to work, but the cost of living was so much higher, and I don't like living in the suburbs. I moved out to the country, and love every minute of it. Plus I live in a community with a golf course, pool, lake, etc... I also have 2 acres and a nice house for under 150k. I would live downtown if I didn't have a kid in school. I love city life, but I love my privacy as well. Had to choose one. :)
I also am in IT, so I have the ability to work from home, which makes the commute very manageable. I'm sure i put more miles on my car, and spend more on gas than most, but I think the trade off is worth it. I drive an old honda civic, so it's some what economical.
I also eat out and take more vacations than I should.
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At what age does a car become a beater? It sounds like some people refuse to drive a beater, so they purchase a new(er) car.
In the last nine months, I have had to replace a couple tires and a caliper in my beater. It looks great and feels great with a sunroof, navigation, 30 mpg, and very smooth over 100 mph. This vehicle cost less than $4k and will be ten years old next year.
I do not see the value in spending more for a depreciating asset that happens to be newer. If I spend more money on a vehicle, it will be something unique and fun, that will hold it's value, so it can be sold for the same or more than I originally invested. How do you define a beater vehicle to justify buying such a new vehicle?
To me, a "beater" is a car that looks, smells, or sounds crappy, or performs poorly (or all four!). More a sign of neglect than age or miles (but those do matter too). I'm talking fugly rust, bad paint, shitty exhaust, blowing smoke, slipping transmission, that sort of thing. I've driven some "beaters" by this definition and also some happen-to-be-older-but-still-seem-nice cars and people definitely perceive the latter quite differently even if they're older than the clear "beaters." Current car is a rust-free (from Texas) 2001 car in good shape that had the same body style until 2007, so it looks/"seems" a lot newer/nicer than it is.
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At what age does a car become a beater? It sounds like some people refuse to drive a beater, so they purchase a new(er) car.
In the last nine months, I have had to replace a couple tires and a caliper in my beater. It looks great and feels great with a sunroof, navigation, 30 mpg, and very smooth over 100 mph. This vehicle cost less than $4k and will be ten years old next year.
I do not see the value in spending more for a depreciating asset that happens to be newer. If I spend more money on a vehicle, it will be something unique and fun, that will hold it's value, so it can be sold for the same or more than I originally invested. How do you define a beater vehicle to justify buying such a new vehicle?
To me, a "beater" is a car that looks, smells, or sounds crappy, or performs poorly (or all four!). More a sign of neglect than age or miles (but those do matter too). I'm talking fugly rust, bad paint, shitty exhaust, blowing smoke, slipping transmission, that sort of thing. I've driven some "beaters" by this definition and also some happen-to-be-older-but-still-seem-nice cars and people definitely perceive the latter quite differently even if they're older than the clear "beaters." Current car is a rust-free (from Texas) 2001 car in good shape that had the same body style until 2007, so it looks/"seems" a lot newer/nicer than it is.
If they can hear me coming from a block away (like the car my DH drove in college), if it is in the shop more than twice in a year, or if it's full of rust or faded paint it's gone. Otherwise I'm happy to drive an older model basic car, Accord, minivan, Outback etc until it gets to that point. DH has a 2010 Honda Accord with 150k miles, older model but still looks good enough and runs great. I drive a 2012 CRV with 60k miles. Bought them used and paid cash.
We used to drive beaters. I mean really old beat up cars. But both DH and I have executive level jobs now and we're not willing to roll into work like that. It would also be unacceptable for me to miss a meeting or something because my beater was in the shop. Call it lifestyle inflation and give me a face punch!
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What makes it a beater to me is a combination of reliability and safety. I do not live in a place where there is public transportation to my place of work or dh's, and neither of us have coworkers we could get rides with. It is a major pain in the butt to have a car in the shop, and it usually means I have to take a vacation day to do it. I don't care what my car looks like, but I don't want to have to schlepp it in for repairs all the time. And no, I can't do them myself. I don't have a mechanical bone in my body.
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I won't bike in the winter but I think that's fair cause it's very snowy and icy and -20C and the bus is pretty cheap. I won't live with roommates to save money anymore cause my last one bailed and I got stuck with someone shitty and I would rather not deal with that again, and my rent is still reasonable. I'd say most of my life is fairly mustachian but I will splurge on going out with friends sometimes and my main "unnecessary" expenditure is travel. I want to see as much of the world as I can and I don't want to wait until I retire because you never know what will happen. I still save money by hosteling and couchsurfing and getting good deals on flights, but I don't want to look back and regret never going places just so I could save more money.
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This thread makes me me so happy. I always feel like such a failed mustachian.
I am also team, I don't budget.
I have a very clear picture of where my money is going and only have four fixed expenses and what I call wastage money which is that I am going to buy an ice cream cone here and there and I am going to buy a bag of chips on Friday and netflix and chill solo.
When my expenses are high, I don't have to look at my statement to know what I spent on.
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Buy a small house. We have a house that is much bigger than we really *need* at almost 3,400 square feet, but I love it nonetheless. We also got an awesome deal on it, and it has gone up close to $100K in value in the 3 years we have been in it, so that makes me feel a little bit better. And our mortgage is still right around $1K a month, which I am totally fine with. Still, definitely not mustachian of us.
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Gotta say - I never thought the MMM message was to drive a beater. An unreliable car that belches smoke and spends time in the shop? Just no. Cheap=/= mustachian.
Budget tracking? I don't and MMM doesn't either at this point. But YMMV depending on your temperament, goals, and life stage. We will start tracking again for the first time in years as we adjust to retirement vs salary income.
But on to the non-mustachian things:
- mow own lawn with reel mower but have hired gardeners to prune, mulch, and weed a few times/year - SO worth it.
- still insuring 2 cars (2000 Subaru and 2003 Echo) because we can't decide on the 1 car replacement
- still paying too much for cell/phone/cable/internet because we need to rethink our whole "entertainment/communications" strategy
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1. I don't wash ziplocks. However, I do use Aldi's private brand "Boulder".
2. In the summer, if my bedroom exceeds 76 degrees, A/C is on.
3. I don't shop for bikes on Craigslist. I generally buy them new (or from a friend) and keep them long. Used bikes in Chicago are crazy high relative to new ones. I've been burned by messed up used bikes. Most of the people selling them can't even tell you the frame size (such a time waste...).
3. I buy my ski gear new and high end, but buy it off season (~50% of retail).
4. I only ride on puncture resistant bike tires (the aggravation and frequency of flats in the city is not worth it to me).
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Gotta say - I never thought the MMM message was to drive a beater. An unreliable car that belches smoke and spends time in the shop? Just no. Cheap=/= mustachian.
Well, in his car recommendation article in 2012, he makes recommendations of cars ranging from about $5k to $10k, absolutely none of what I would consider a beater. But his target potential-new-readers audience of conspicuous consumers probably considers a $5k car a "beater" or "shitbox" and a giant step down from a brand new $20-30k car.
For myself, five years later, that article is finally relevant, even though all the numbers are smaller now. Still not really beaters to me.
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Yeah, we bought our 2003 Echo in 2013 for around $6K. Used, old, cheap - but totally not a beater. Still looks great and runs great.
Gotta say - I never thought the MMM message was to drive a beater. An unreliable car that belches smoke and spends time in the shop? Just no. Cheap=/= mustachian.
Well, in his car recommendation article in 2012, he makes recommendations of cars ranging from about $5k to $10k, absolutely none of what I would consider a beater. But his target potential-new-readers audience of conspicuous consumers probably considers a $5k car a "beater" or "shitbox" and a giant step down from a brand new $20-30k car.
For myself, five years later, that article is finally relevant, even though all the numbers are smaller now. Still not really beaters to me.
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relieved to see so many apostates on here. I feel like i'm merely half-ass rather than badass most of the time.
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Before finding MMM we have twice in a row bought a brand new car with full extra equipment package. Now I wouldn't do that again, but I would probably still buy a car that is only a few years old with little mileage.
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Ride a bike. We hates it, Precious.
I'm f---ing killing myself. OMG. Because I hate cycling, and I live in Vancouver, criss-crossed with bike lanes.
I eat out still. Sometimes. Put it through my corporation. I also buy silly, fancy convenience foods like boxed Tazo passion Tea, that I could totally make myself for a fraction of the price, but I can't be bothered to organize it, when I can have a nice, sterile box of Tazo tea ready whenever I want it. And dolmathes. In a can. They're a great price, why would I stand there cooking rice and trying to roll the grape leaves up properly? I f----ing love the Costco dolmathes. And costco chicken wings (pre-slathered in sauce for lazy me) and barbecued chickens.
Also, I turn the heat up when I get cold, and have an air-conditioner (which I use a few weeks of the year so I can sleep when it is 90 degrees in my south-facing apartment). And I eat 2-Bite brownies. all the time. Those are probably too good to be mustachian.
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I'm surprised at the number of people who don't hang their clothes on the line. I don't know anyone with a clithes drier but that might be a Queensland thing.
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I'm surprised at the number of people who don't hang their clothes on the line. I don't know anyone with a clothes drier but that might be a Queensland thing.
It could also be a climate thing. When you live in a place where it can rain unexpectedly at any moment, you'd better hang your clothes under a roof. I experienced that in our first apartment where the clothes line was hanging outside the balcony. Each time of was almost dry, it would start to rain. Eventually my mother bought us a tumble dry.
In my current house, as in my previous house, I am so lucky to have a balcony under a roof. That's where I have my clothes lines. But I only hang out in the summer half year. (April/september-ish). The rest of the year it is either too wet or too cold and clothes wouldn't dry anyway.
But since I found this website this winter, I have started hanging clothes to dry on a rack in the bathroom, which has a floor that is heated in the winter half year. Now I only use my dryer for when I am i a hurry to get things dry.
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I also buy silly, fancy convenience foods like boxed Tazo passion Tea, that I could totally make myself for a fraction of the price, but I can't be bothered to organize it, when I can have a nice, sterile box of Tazo tea ready whenever I want it.
Wha??? You can make Tazo Passion Tea yourself? Please do tell!
Hell, I thought buying the boxed stuff was Mustachian! One little bag makes a whole pot, no sugar needs to be added and it has no caffeine. This could be a complete paradigm shift...
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I'm surprised at the number of people who don't hang their clothes on the line. I don't know anyone with a clithes drier but that might be a Queensland thing.
probably more common to hang dry out side of the US. we have cheaper energy here the cost of a dryer is minimal compared with the time it takes to hang dry clothes, as well as the differing climates.
MMM lives in CO they are very dry i live in MO we have very humid summers.
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I'm surprised at the number of people who don't hang their clothes on the line. I don't know anyone with a clithes drier but that might be a Queensland thing.
probably more common to hang dry out side of the US. we have cheaper energy here the cost of a dryer is minimal compared with the time it takes to hang dry clothes, as well as the differing climates.
MMM lives in CO they are very dry i live in MO we have very humid summers.
I live in Minnesota and haven't used my dryer in 4 years. The winters here are very dry so I find it helpful to dry the clothes on racks in my bedroom instead of using a humidifier. I hang them outside during warm weather. My dryer takes LP gas which can be cheap some years and expensive other years, but I consider line drying something easy I can do to reduce my environmental impact. I used my Mom's tumble dryer when I was visiting her recently because she doesn't have racks/ lines, and I was surprised it took longer than hanging the clothes outside on a sunny day. Also it is much easier to fold sheets if they are on a clothesline, and you don't get wet spots.
Otherwise I am not the most badass mustachian (fair-weather cyclist, disposable diapers, riding lawn mower)
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+1 to I don't budget (echo Paul der Krake on this one)
+1 to I'm not cheap on A/C (because I have money, so I can be comfortable ... and the cost difference is crazy minimal)
+1 to using a clothes dryer (although I have to say the "hang things as a form of humidifier in the winter" is an intriguing idea for certain items)
I don't believe it's universally valuable to trade time for money. I'm not going to avoid a dishwasher, for example, because it's less pennies to wash by hand. The time spent washing is far more precious than the pennies.
Own a bike, enjoy riding, but haven't yet mustered the will to ride it to work, since it's a different risk profile than casual riding.
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Yeah, we bought our 2003 Echo in 2013 for around $6K. Used, old, cheap - but totally not a beater. Still looks great and runs great.
Gotta say - I never thought the MMM message was to drive a beater. An unreliable car that belches smoke and spends time in the shop? Just no. Cheap=/= mustachian.
Well, in his car recommendation article in 2012, he makes recommendations of cars ranging from about $5k to $10k, absolutely none of what I would consider a beater. But his target potential-new-readers audience of conspicuous consumers probably considers a $5k car a "beater" or "shitbox" and a giant step down from a brand new $20-30k car.
For myself, five years later, that article is finally relevant, even though all the numbers are smaller now. Still not really beaters to me.
Yeah I don't consider a car a beater almost no matter what its price, age, or mileage, if the car is clean, reliable, and not falling apart. It's about condition, appearance, reliability.
My car is 11 years old and has 120,000 miles and it is not even close to being a beater. Looks great, is in great shape, reliable - no issues. I'm never going back to beaters unless I have no choice.
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I don't bicycle either. Last time I bicycled I fell over into the road and was nearly hit by a car (I'm a klutz due to chronic ear infections messing up my sense of equilibrium). I've been thinking about buying an adult tricycle.
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I don't bicycle either. Last time I bicycled I fell over into the road and was nearly hit by a car (I'm a klutz due to chronic ear infections messing up my sense of equilibrium). I've been thinking about buying an adult tricycle.
In the town where I used to live as a child, there was a man cycling in a tricycle. He also had a balance problem and not drive a car either. He could get around fine on his bike.
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Thrifting - garage sales - flea market ... I still enjoy it on rare occasions for it's "entertainment" value, (everyone loves a bargain:), but never as my wardrobe source.
Biking - I love it, but the weather and road-safety conditions in Florida make it difficult. No riding in the heat for me, but when it is "cold:)" I don't mind folding it up and take it along to one of the many big parks or trails in the area.
Heat or AC - damn right I want to be comfortable. Sure this old lady will wear a sweater and socks or turn down the AC when I leave the house - but other than that, give me comfort or suffer the consequences.
Budget - just the word alone makes me feel poor and deprived.
Beater car - well, this next car will be the last car that I'll ever be driving, so this time around I will be looking for a decent vehicle 2012 and up, hell, maybe even new. Thanks to MMM I can afford to pay cash. Besides, I am beginning to feel unsafe in my lil ole red 1998, it is time to say good bye.
Cable - only because you need cable for NFL football games - for Mr. R. I'd be fine with hulu and netflix et al.
Savings rate - ya baby, 50% or more.
Re-evaluating all our expenses and so called "fixed" expenses on a regular basis? Of course, sometimes expenses are only fixed in your head or we are too lazy to actively seek a different solution.
Make and take lunches - no problem.
Hang-dry - yup, here in Florida everything is dry in no time. Clothes last longer that way too.
MMM made me re-discover my love for the library and the cool perks of libraries, like ordering a book from another library. I was thrilled to discover the overdrive app and that I can read on my phone for free or listen to the audio.
Cooking more at home - I love to cook and garden, even know my way around growing herbs. It is nice to go out to eat on occasion - we cut down to 2-3 times max a month.
Getting control of and understanding our own finances and investments - priceless. .. not there yet, but working on it:)
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I'm surprised at the number of people who don't hang their clothes on the line. I don't know anyone with a clithes drier but that might be a Queensland thing.
Around here they will consider you a "poor dear" assuming that you can't afford a clothes dryer. I live in Florida, whyever wouldn't I dry my clothes on the line?:) I always find that amusing.
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Hang dry laundry. I've lived in the South Pacific where a clothes dryer was hard to find, and my clothes were crunchy. I do not like my clothes being crunchy.
Be a one vehicle family. We tried. It lasted less than a week before my spouse freaked out and insisted we get a second car (which we paid cash for).
Reduce the grocery budget. I mean, it seems like a great idea, but it also seems like a TON of work.
I also can't seem to get the thermostat below 67 in the winter, but I'd prefer it at 70, and it took me 2 years to work down to 67 degrees!
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Where do I begin. We're really not all that mustachian except that we save half our income, invest in index funds, and will retire early (at least I will). We spend too much on entertainment, eating out, our cars, our house. We live in an HCOL city. I just tracked our spending for the first few months of the year and it was way too much for two people, I feel a little guilty about it. But we spend a lot less than we used to before finding MMM. Our eating out and grocery spending is high because we eat at nice places and buy organic food. I guess food is a major thing I'm unmustachian about. Although I do cook a lot too and we are vegetarian so we don't buy meat which can be expensive I hear.
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Some of our spending belongs to the antimustachian wall of shame and comedy (ok tragicomedy).
1. Crazy commute.(houses close to work start from 800k+. Even 2 br appartments start with 7, so hell, no)
2. No bikes. Ever. I walk.
3. The man's non negotiable vehicle needs (financed 4WD truck.paid off Boat). No rowing. We have crazy adventures with these, so I am sort of fine with that.
4. International travel (not business expense, khm).this is my non negotiable.
5 childcare at 100 a day. Kids are 'spensive.
6. Not reselling crap. I just donate unwanted items.
7. Airconditioning.yay. best thing ever.
We will probably have to work for an other 6-8 years, but whatever.
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1. Line dry my clothes. I even send some shirts out for laundering.
2. I pay for a pedicure rather than trim my own toenails.
3. Do any form of garage sale-ing, as one person's unwanted crap is still crap.
4. Workout in my garage/backyard. I used to have a fantastic home gym (squat racks, bumper plates, lifting platform) but space requirements now mean I have to rely on a gym. I may build up another home gym at some point.
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No unnessesary driving. Today we drove for a moose safari, just driving slowly around the village where we have a cabin. Mooses are not so affraid of cars, but are for people. We saw a lot of them and made some good pictures.
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biking - I live in FL (hot, not bike-friendly, motorists who are not used to pedestrians/bikers)
maxing out 401k/buying up stocks as priority - for the time being, I'm making investing in rental property a priority, though I contribute to my employer's max
get a degree in a high-paying field - this would stress me (both at the education level, and the career level)
being overly judgemental - I've met people who always "do the right thing", but are miserable, and many who flew by their seats and still have/had a wonderful life. Just because someone is not doing what you think they should, doesn't mean it's not the best decision for them
FIRE - I just want to get to a place where I can afford to work a min wage PT job, as that will assure me that I can pick any job I want without compensation being a factor.
Only sacrificing today for tomorrow - I sacrifice today for tomorrow, and vice versa. We might be able to predict our FIRE date and financial status for the next 30+ years using theories, and calculations, and trends, but nobody can predict life's expiration date; so I prefer to spread the mulch.
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We FIREd almost 2 years ago. Some moustachian things I/we choose not to do include:
- re-using ziploc bags. They're not expensive, it's just not worth it.
- line-drying clothes. Our HOA doesn't allow clothes lines in yards and I remember when I was a kid how much I hated the way line-dried clothes feel compared to dryer-dried clothes. Not doing it.
- Limiting A/C use. I get mean when I'm hot. DH doesn't want that...and we live in south Florida.
- Biking for anything besides pleasure. We're too far away from stores, the speed limit is too high and there are no bike paths on the roads. We do have a great bike path close to the house but you can't get anywhere on it, it's just a great trail.
- Buying in bulk. Can't stand the clutter, enjoy organized closets and cabinets.
Our biggest non-mustachian thing we do is that we're members in a boat club. It's all of the fun but none of the responsibility. It costs way less than owning our own boat but we budget $450 a month for membership and fuel. But we live in south Florida and there are so many great places to boat and we have all the time in the world to do it.
We still budget (although it's constantly changing running estimate, not set in stone), we limit eating out, we rarely pay anyone to do anything for us (DH is incredibly handy), and we're happy with our Republic Wireless phones that cost us $34 a month for two of us. We own one car, a 2007 Honda CRV. We don't travel much (living in south Florida with so many beautiful beaches nearby makes it unnecessary).
Having reached FIRE at 51 & 52, we are happy being frugal where we think it's important to be frugal and spending when it brings us happiness to spend. So far, that's working out well for us....and we're incredibly happy. That's the whole point, isn't it? :)
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About that old beater car... I refuse to buy one. DH, too. We buy new cars that are a combination of lower MSRP, great gas mileage, just enough space, and high ratings from Consumer Reports. We pay cash. Then we keep them for decade or more.
But line drying is works well in our dry Arizona climate.
- line-drying clothes. Our HOA doesn't allow clothes lines in yards and I remember when I was a kid how much I hated the way line-dried clothes feel compared to dryer-dried clothes. Not doing it.
HOAs say the darnest things, don't they?
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What common mustachian things do you refuse to do, and why?
I refuse to pick up dead animals.
--- oh, that is not a Mustachian trait? Really, there is very little that I refuse to do, and that is one of them. And I know this because I have had the opportunity to do so too many times in my life, and each time there was no way I was voluntarily going to do it.
Here is another
I refuse to us Mint. or YNAB. I have tried both and disliked them very much.
and..
Credit card hacking or travel hacking -- it never seems to work out better than cash back.
ETA -- Minimalism. Declutter = yes, Minimalism is a No. I would rather have lots of spacious, semi-used storage.
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Live in a LCOL area. BTDT and it was too depressing and stressful.
Husband loves his job, and is doing good, meaningful work, so we won't move away from the big city. So we are now living in a medium-fancy suburb... the schools are great but boy is housing expensive.
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Interesting thread. I don't bike, the last time I tried it, my rear end hurt for over a month and I only went up and down the street to try it out. I work 19 miles from home so there is no way I would ever do it to commute to work! DH works only about 2 miles from home, but when he leaves work he has to pick up DD from practice and often get her to another practice or game. It just wouldn't work logistically with all that DD is involved in. We have 2 teenagers, one is driving she is works a lot of hours and is going to community college. The other DD plays 3 sports one is year round, one in the winter and one in the spring. There are expenses including travel involved which we are happy to pay to have her so involved in what she loves. We usually go on vacation 1-2x per year. For the first 14 years of our marriage, being young parents we couldn't afford much for vacations so we camped. We still camp occasionally, but vacation and camping are 2 very different things. We also don't let ourselves freeze in the winter or over-heat in the summer. I use the clothesline more than DH but he does the laundry more often than me, since he is home so much earlier and he tends to use the dryer.
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Very interesting thread and I enjoy reading it.
The things that we don't do:
1. Beater Car - We buy new cars (not expensive but reliable cars) and keep them very long.
2. Cut my own hair or highlight - No way. I like my hair style with nice highlight.
3. Big house - I like a big, clean, and beautiful house too much. After we retire, we can downsize.
4. Entertainment gears - We buy high or medium end ski gears (with annual ski season pass), kayak, etc.
5. Budget - We only track what we spend.
The things that we do:
1. Only eat out for special occasions
2. Re-use ziplog bags
3. Line dry (in-door) delicate clothes and my undies.
4. Don't waste food
5. Buying in bulk
6. No desire for expensive vacations, especially air travel. We have a beautiful RV and prefer RVing/camping.