What are entry level "unskilled" jobs paying where you live?

[nereo]

complaining that nobody wants to work and denying that those better paying jobs exist.

Them: “It’s supply and demand! The free market will decide the wages!”

Also them: “no, not like that!”

I agree with the sentiment overall, but it does get a bit more nuanced on occasion.

For example, my company often hires temps to boost production and increase gross sales. In the current environment everything from labor to materials is fetching a premium, but we’re locked into how much we can charge for our products by various contracts signed months ago.  So hiring additional people literally means operating at a loss - ergo we aren’t doing that (and counterintuitively we remain profitable).

It’s not an uncommon problem in the labor market.

[MudPuppy]

Agree, @nereo. My post was a tongue in cheek expression of a general sentiment and not reflective of nuance.

[jim555]

My area, Long Island, NY the minimum wage is $14 and fast food minimum is $15.

There is a separate legal minimum if you are a fast food restaurant vs other kinds of businesses? Or just that those are less desirable jobs so the minimum fast food seems to be able to pay is $15/hour?

Aside from the lower minimum wage for tipped workers (which has its own issue), I hadn't heard of places adopting different specific minimum wages for specific industries. What was the motivation?

The law says fast food gets more.  On 12/31/2021 the regular minimum wage goes to $15.

[Wolfpack Mustachian]

Pretty sticky, but I think you and I may be thinking about different kinds of stickiness.

Wages aren't sticky in the sense that once a company has hires some workers at a hire wage they cannot go back to hiring new people at a lower wage. But they are sticky in the sense that workers are extremely unlikely to accept a pay cut while staying in the same job (even if the new lower wage is higher than they'd be able to get from any other job they're likely to get if they leave the job rather than accept the reduction in pay).

The next time there is a big economic recession, watch how many stories there are about company X or Y laying off workers. Then watch for stories about company A or B cutting people's salaries instead of laying people off. You may see one or two, but it'll be quite rare even though, in principle, the employer has a lot more negotiating power and the employees have much worst "next best alternatives" in the middle of a recession than they did at the time their wagers were set.

Or more simply, think about whether you've ever heard of someone in your own life to agreed to do the same amount of work for the same employer for less pay. (So not losing one job and accepting another at lower pay, or being furloughed or negotiated to work fewer days in return for a pay cut.)

I see what you're saying. I am curious about how this would play out, though, in terms of wages dropping for newer highers if people are working there already for $15/hr. In the professional world where no one knows anyone else's salary, in my limited experience, it's pretty easy to pay people whatever they feel like at least in regards to comparisons of others at the company. With this situation, everybody has seen and knows how much they're paying because it's such big news. Without some major ground changing thing, do you think people would be fine with taking a job at $11/hr when others doing the same job with 6 months more experience are at $15? It seems like this situation might linger even for future hires after the current "crisis", but I could easily be wrong.

[maizefolk]

So a couple of thoughts on people's willingness to take a job paying $X/hour when some of their coworkers might be making $2X/hour for the same work:

Even before the pandemic, fast food restaurants typically had an annual turnover rate of 120-150% (a restaurant with 20 full time staff would need to make 24-30 new hires per year), so if starting pay rates change, it doesn't take all that long before almost everyone is earning the new lower pay scale.

One of the things that makes the US an exceptional country is how willing individuals in our country are to sacrifice our own self interest to punish behavior we see as unfair (see any set of studies using the ultimatum game for evidence of this). But you can engineer around this reaction by presenting some even semi-plausible reason for unequal treatment. In the case of people earning different wages, I think the semi-plausible reason is the expectation is always that people who have been working at the same job longer will earn a higher wage for the same work.

There are a surprising number of cases where unions have accepted lower starting pay/less desirable pension setups for new workers in order to protect benefits and pay for existing workers. And people still take those new lower paying jobs working alongside their higher paid colleagues with more seniority.

But all of the above assumes that the demand for labor is going to decline and/or supply is going to grow. If not, then current market continues continue to prevail and current wages -- or even higher ones do become the new normal.

[Paper Chaser]

Adding another data point from rural midwest:
A small packaging manufacturer that I pass on my way to work has several signs out front. Starting pay is up to $19/hr (which is about par but not the highest I've seen for that type of work in this location and current market) plus a $1500 signing bonus. I've seen some mentions of signing bonuses in other places, but they typically accompany lower wages and they're either  a couple hundred bucks or they're opaque about the specific values. This is the first time that I've seen such a large bonus specifically mentioned, and the first time I've seen a bonus accompany an hourly wage that high.

[youngwildandfree]

Adding another data point from rural midwest:
A small packaging manufacturer that I pass on my way to work has several signs out front. Starting pay is up to $19/hr (which is about par but not the highest I've seen for that type of work in this location and current market) plus a $1500 signing bonus. I've seen some mentions of signing bonuses in other places, but they typically accompany lower wages and they're either  a couple hundred bucks or they're opaque about the specific values. This is the first time that I've seen such a large bonus specifically mentioned, and the first time I've seen a bonus accompany an hourly wage that high.

This is really smart though! If someone is trying to get a fresh start $1500 is tremendously helpful towards a car or apartment. They can probably expand their hiring radius this way.

[Paper Chaser]

What's interesting to me, is that I'm starting to see automation fill in in the areas seeing labor shortages. The cafeteria at work has been closed throughout the pandemic. They're about to reopen with a new staffing model. They'll be cashless now ("for safety and convenience!" and totally not to eliminate a couple of cashier jobs). So no more human cashiers dealing with people and dirty cash that could spread germs. Instead, everybody gets to order from the same dirty touchscreens which is superior for the user somehow? My workplace runs 24/7 and instead of staffing the cafeteria for multiple meals per day, they'll serve only serve lunch M-F and have "grab and go" style vending all other times. It was never staffed 24/7 before, but they're still cutting out probably 6hrs of availability and staffing every day.

I have no idea what the wages of the cafeteria workers were before the pandemic vs what they are now (they're contractors). But if it's hard to get employees to fill these jobs, or the work doesn't justify the cost to the employer, then employers seem to be finding other ways to keep some of the revenue flowing. I'm not convinced that the consumer is better off, and the fact that there are fewer jobs being performed doesn't seem great either but I guess we'll see how it works for a few months.

[maizefolk]

That's a really interesting point, Paper Chaser. We don't have a cafeteria at work, but what you're describing reminds me of my recent visit to a Panera for the first time since before the pandemic. There was no place to order food from a human being. Every table had a sign urging one to download their app and order from that, plus there was a table with some tablets people without cell phones could use to order. No way to pay with cash that I could see, just credit cards through the app or tablets.

Food showed up on a counter at the back of the store. There must have been employees in the back making sandwiches and slicing bagels, but they'd cut out the need for cashiers entirely and so cut the number of positions they needed to fill. Wonder how many other businesses will adopt the same system... or have already for that matter, I've barely been in any restaurants since February of 2020 so this could be widespread by now and I wouldn't know it.

[Gone Fishing]

Pretty sticky, but I think you and I may be thinking about different kinds of stickiness.

Wages aren't sticky in the sense that once a company has hires some workers at a hire wage they cannot go back to hiring new people at a lower wage. But they are sticky in the sense that workers are extremely unlikely to accept a pay cut while staying in the same job (even if the new lower wage is higher than they'd be able to get from any other job they're likely to get if they leave the job rather than accept the reduction in pay).

The next time there is a big economic recession, watch how many stories there are about company X or Y laying off workers. Then watch for stories about company A or B cutting people's salaries instead of laying people off. You may see one or two, but it'll be quite rare even though, in principle, the employer has a lot more negotiating power and the employees have much worst "next best alternatives" in the middle of a recession than they did at the time their wagers were set.

Or more simply, think about whether you've ever heard of someone in your own life to agreed to do the same amount of work for the same employer for less pay. (So not losing one job and accepting another at lower pay, or being furloughed or negotiated to work fewer days in return for a pay cut.)

If wages revert, you'll probably see companies "managing out" higher wage employees by cutting their hours, giving them undesirable shifts, undesirable tasks, undesirable locations etc.  Much cheaper than paying unemployment costs.

This was a common theme at my previous employer.  Especially with high earners that were older and "past their prime".

[fuzzy math]

I live in a rural area near a small city (150k) in a top 10 cheapest state in the country.

Locally the warehouse is offering almost $19 and a $500 sign on bonus. Down the street I saw fast food hiring for $14 ish. In the small city, there are college students and I think there's higher wages nearing $15

[ditheca]

$11/hr. Many of the unskilled jobs require bachelors degrees.

I live in southern Utah. There is a huge surplus of educated people with no job prospects who don't want to leave. By far the best option is getting work-from-home positions based in other states.

[Wolfpack Mustachian]

Lcol rural. Just saw manufacturing positions, no experience or degree needed starting at $20 per hour, full benefits, 6-8% 401k match (can't remember for sure),  etc. It really blows me away.

[Michael in ABQ]

I just posted a job listing for $13/hour for a light office job in Albuquerque. Basically pick, pack, and ship for small products and some customer service via email and phone. The big thing is we're offering a lot of flexibility in hours so it would be a good fit for someone with kids in school who just wants to working during that time and not have to worry about being there every single day at a set time.

I just looked through craigslist and there's a lot of jobs in the $11-14/hour range. I just passed a restaurant today advertising $11-12 for servers and line cooks. A call center was offering $14 (outbound surveys - not sales).

[Zamboni]

PA Billboards:
Walmart advertising that jobs start at up to $21.35/hr
Some sort of marshmellow cookie factory place says line jobs starting at $23/hr

[Paper Chaser]

Automation is booming:

https://apnews.com/article/technology-business-health-coronavirus-pandemic-d935b29f631f1ae36e964d23881f77bd

"A survey last year by the nonprofit World Economic Forum found that 43% of companies planned to reduce their workforce as a result of new technology. Since the second quarter of 2020, business investment in equipment has grown 26%, more than twice as fast as the overall economy."

"The U.S. economy lost a staggering 22.4 million jobs in March and April 2020, when the pandemic gale hit the U.S. Hiring has since bounced back briskly: Employers have brought back 17 million jobs since April 2020. In June, they posted a record 10.1 million job openings and are complaining that they can’t find enough workers."

"Despite strong hiring since the middle of last year, the U.S. economy is still 5.3 million jobs short of what it had in February 2020. And Lydia Boussour, lead U.S. economist at Oxford Economics, calculated last month that 40% of the missing jobs are vulnerable to automation, especially those in food preparation, retail sales and manufacturing."

[ender]

I've seen a lot of $500-$1000 signing bonuses advertised around here now, even for jobs at the local gas station.

[MudPuppy]

Frankly, sign on bonuses are a red flag. I’ve received sign on bonus offers of 25k for 2 years, but if they have to add that much honey, the pill is too bitter for my standards!

[Metalcat]

Frankly, sign on bonuses are a red flag. I’ve received sign on bonus offers of 25k for 2 years, but if they have to add that much honey, the pill is too bitter for my standards!

The rules are different during a staffing shortage though.

[ender]

And industry (it's common in my field to get meaningful signing bonuses, all the time).

[MudPuppy]

In my particular field there’s always a shortage. Of people willing to put up with bullshit.

[Metalcat]

In my particular field there’s always a shortage. Of people willing to put up with bullshit.

How are signing bonuses bullshit?
You seem to be VERY anti signing bonus, and obviously there's a good reason for it in your industry, but you seem to be saying that there is no industry where they can possibly be a positive and that's simply not true.

[MudPuppy]

I’ve no agenda. Sign on bonuses aren’t the end of the world (especially for people experiencing employment emergencies) For me personally, sign on bonuses are a full stop.

Sign on bonuses alone, in my path, are not the bullshit. They are simply the canary in the coal mine that the job (or sometime the organization at large) can’t keep people… likely for a reason

[Metalcat]

I’ve no agenda. Sign on bonuses aren’t the end of the world (especially for people experiencing employment emergencies) For me personally, sign on bonuses are a full stop.

Sign on bonuses alone, in my path, are not the bullshit. They are simply the canary in the coal mine that the job (or sometime the organization at large) can’t keep people… likely for a reason

Yeah, no I get that loud and clear that that has been your experience in your industry, but another poster and I both have first hand experience with that not being the case.

That's why I'm clarifying, are you of the belief that in *all* industries that signing bonuses are a bad sign? Because that is most certainly not a universal truth.

They are standard for top performers in a number of industries where the lack of a signing bonus for high level talent actually indicates a cash flow problem in the company.

I also indicated that it depends on the job market.

I've staffed medical industry staff for years, from an oversupply market to a massive staff shortage that we're seeing right now, and signing bonuses have become the norm because the only staff to be found right now are those who already have jobs, so employers are not only offering signing bonuses, but also finders fees to existing staff who recruit someone.

10 years ago signing bonuses for these staff only existed for very remote location clinics that struggled to attract staff, now the best employers in the city are offering some of the biggest signing bonuses.

So whether or not a signing bonus indicates a good thing or a bad thing is entirely dependent on the industry and the job market at the time.

So your personal experience may be that signing bonuses are a red flag, but that's definitely not true for a lot of jobs that offer them.

[MudPuppy]

Again, these are my personal flags. I do not imply these are anyone’s flags but mine. I have not negated any other poster’s experiences with sign on bonuses.

[Metalcat]

Again, these are my personal flags. I do not imply these are anyone’s flags but mine. I have not negated any other poster’s experiences with sign on bonuses.

Thanks for clarification. That wasn't clear to me which is why I kept asking you if you were actually making a generalization or just speaking about your own experience.

It *seemed* to me like you were making a generalization, hence my repeated questions and examples to clarify.

[American GenX]

Midwest LCOL with high property taxes.  Minimum wage $11/hr.  I don't know what the fast food restaurants are paying, but I've seen that a local factory is hiring with the low end pay being just under $19/hr and up to almost $24/hr depending on experience.

[FiguringItOut]

NYC, minimum wage is $15

My 17y.o. been working in a bakery since early August.  She's making $15.30/h plus tips.  Tips average between $5.50 and $7.50 per hour.  And she works 20-24 hrs per week. 

She recently found out that basically everyone in that place makes $15.30/h.  Even managers and baristas who were specially trained.  Also, technically there are some benefits etc, but from the posted schedules that she sees nobody is schedule for more than 34 hrs/wk.  So nobody there is full time and thus not getting benefits.  My kid obviously doesn't need their benefits, but I'm sure other people they may. 

My 19y.o. was working at the dental office all summer for $15/h for 40-45 hrs per week.  However, they never processed her as an employee and she was getting paid via Venmo and no taxes of any kind were ever taken out of her pay.  They never even asked her for SS# so I doubt they will even make this a 1099 at the end of the year. 

Regardless, as a pre-dental student this was an awesome job for her.  It started as only one day a week receptionist and ended up being one day receptionist and the rest of the days she was a dentist assistant and got trained to do that.  Great first toe in the water for the profession and great experience to at to her resume for future summer jobs. 

[Zamboni]

18 yo cousin just started at Target at $15 an hour in Dallas Ft Worth area.

Cookout in Warsaw, NC is advertising $11+/hr ($12+/hr if willing to be on closing shift.)