Debt Relief Resources for Religious Folk facing bankruptcy (especially UK-based)

[Playing with Fire UK]

*Please let's not get off-topic as to the merits of Dave Ramsey or other personalities*

I'm looking for some resources to help my in-laws who are a financial car crash, should be looking into bankruptcy but are also lovely people who deserve and need help.

I've exhausted my ability to help them because I'm too close and they have some entrenched religious ideas that I don't share and think are holding them back. They are rejecting all forms of debt management/relief/write-offs/government assistance because they consider themselves to be good upstanding citizens and Christians.

My point of view is that the time for being precious about debt is when you were spending, not when you are struggling. Our laws allow for debt write off in certain circumstances; being in debt is neither a crime nor a sin.

We are based in the UK but any English language, broadly Christian resource could be useful. They give to charity but don't tithe and resources that encourage tithing in debt aren't going to help them right now. If there are resources that avoid talking about debt 'forgiveness' (which is a more US term and feels more loaded when it's used in the UK) that that would be peachy.

They don't like Martin Lewis because of how he talks about loyalty (basically that you shouldn't have loyalty to companies, but staying silent on being loyal to family and faith).

[londongrad]

It may be worth checking out CAP (https://capuk.org/).

I know several friends who have had interactions with the charity and are now on repayment plans ect heading towards debt relief.

[Playing with Fire UK]

Thanks LondonGrad! CAP down have anyone based in the area but their self-help booklet looks fantastic.

Do you happen to know whether the people that your friends worked with spoke about religion at all (if this was applicable)?

I know that CAP offer services to people regardless of faith and don't try to convert people, but I don't know whether they would engage with my in-laws about their faith based concerns?

[yachi]

I'm looking for some resources to help my in-laws who are a financial car crash, should be looking into bankruptcy but are also lovely people who deserve and need help.

I've exhausted my ability to help them because I'm too close and they have some entrenched religious ideas that I don't share and think are holding them back. They are rejecting all forms of debt management/relief/write-offs/government assistance because they consider themselves to be good upstanding citizens and Christians.

Bankruptcy IS help. 

Look, it's also in the better interest of the government to provide these programs.  Without bankruptcy, people take less risks and governments have decided that's bad.  In some ways society's cost for allowing heavy advertising, easy financing, and high consumption is that occasionally a citizen ends up in bankruptcy.  Governments have decided it's better for the economy to allow all of the former at the cost of the latter.
When the Bible says 'do not charge interest' and a company is offering your parents a debt write-off that removes year's of interest, their reason for refusing is more likely pride than trying to follow biblical principles.

[Dicey]

It's nice that you're doing this, but have your in-laws specifically asked for your help? Have they agreed to consider the advice you seek here?

[Playing with Fire UK]

Yachi, I agree. Do you have a podcast?!?

I've given up on trying to explain my logic to the in-laws. We are different people and I can't make them agree with me. My thought is that if I have a faith based authority tell them that bankruptcy isn't a sin it will be more compelling than if I tell them. Or equally ineffective, but at the end they won't think that I'm evil and amoral.

[Lady SA]

If these are your inlaws, your message may be easier for them to swallow if it comes from your partner, their child, instead.

Has your partner requested that you handle this issue with their parents?

edit:

Yachi, I agree. Do you have a podcast?!?

I've given up on trying to explain my logic to the in-laws. We are different people and I can't make them agree with me. My thought is that if I have a faith based authority tell them that bankruptcy isn't a sin it will be more compelling than if I tell them. Or equally ineffective, but at the end they won't think that I'm evil and amoral.

The quote above makes me think that you are setting yourself and your inlaws up for frustration and anger. If you aren't that close with your inlaws (which from the above it sounds like you aren't), then you trying to help them might inadvertently be introducing resentment to the dynamic. They get annoyed that you are being "pushy" or "holier-than-thou", and you get frustrated that they refuse to listen.
I'd help find resources, but I'd hand them off to your partner to pass on and leave the entire debacle to be sorted between the three of them.

[Playing with Fire UK]

It's nice that you're doing this, but have your in-laws specifically asked for your help? Have they agreed to consider the advice you seek here?

They've asked for help with money management but not specifically for this help (convincing them to consider something that they think is against their religion).

They've asked for money over and over, sometimes they get it and sometimes we can help with budgeting advice instead. They have been thankful in the past. My partner and their other child have asked me to help with this.

I don't know whether they will consider the advice. They have declined to consider bankruptcy in the past. If it is because I didn't address their religious convictions then I'd like to try again. If they still aren't interested then I'll leave it be.

Does that sound reasonable? I'm way too close to this to be impartial, and the main thing I'm trying to protect is the relationship. If this is going to have the opposite effect then I'd let it go.

We are close, but different. I mean, we're similar in a lot of ways; but nearly opposite on religion and money.

[Lady SA]

It's nice that you're doing this, but have your in-laws specifically asked for your help? Have they agreed to consider the advice you seek here?

They've asked for help with money management but not specifically for this help (convincing them to consider something that they think is against their religion).

They've asked for money over and over, sometimes they get it and sometimes we can help with budgeting advice instead. They have been thankful in the past. My partner and their other child have asked me to help with this.

I don't know whether they will consider the advice. They have declined to consider bankruptcy in the past. If it is because I didn't address their religious convictions then I'd like to try again. If they still aren't interested then I'll leave it be.

Does that sound reasonable? I'm way too close to this to be impartial, and the main thing I'm trying to protect is the relationship. If this is going to have the opposite effect then I'd let it go.

We are close, but different. I mean, we're similar in a lot of ways; but nearly opposite on religion and money.

My DH and I have a system that works pretty well. Essentially, I handle everything with my family and he handles his. He handles all communication, scheduling (after checking with me of course), gifts, etc for everyone in his family on behalf of both of us.
That doesn't mean I don't love and feel close to his family. My MIL is the bomb, so gracious and loving and quirky. My SILs are wonderful and I love spending time with them. My FIL is hilarious and super chill. BUT, if they were to have financial problems (which, they actually do, though not the the point of your ILs), I stay out of it. I worry, and I care, but I limit my involvement to finding resources and giving them to my DH to pass on.
I've figured out that the message is much better received coming from DH than me. My ILs love me, but nothing like they love their son. Hard news coming from him is simply easier for them to swallow because he has history with them, he knows how to form the message so they are more likely to listen. It's not that they don't value my opinion, but its just more effective and less stressful for everyone involved if DH handles it.
YMMV, this is what works for our families.


So, if I were in your shoes, I would research their options, possible resources, and pass the info to your partner and let them handle the whole thing.

[Dicey]

I asked because it wouldn't seem fair if your well-intentioned efforts to help were somehow used against you. Happens.

[rockstache]

Hi Playing with Fire, I think the background from another thread was that your finances are mingled with theirs through a co-signed loan by your partner? So, technically even though a lot of good advice would be that you can't change them blah, blah, you are actually trying to minimize the fallout in your own life. Is that accurate?

This is US centric, but may help with what you are looking for. Some quotes below, maybe that you could pull out of it and use, changing to UK where appropriate (I wouldn't send the whole thing).

http://www.christian-attorney.net/bible_bankruptcy.html


"At the end of every seven years you shall grant a release of debts. And this is the form of the release: Every creditor who has lent anything to his neighbor shall release it; he shall not require it of his neighbor or his brother, because it is called the LORD's release" (Deuteronomy 15:1-2).

Jesus, in two (2) parables, used the illustration of forgiveness of a financial debt to teach about God's forgiveness and the requirement that mankind forgive (see Matthew 18:21-35 and Luke 7:36-50). "And when they had nothing with which to repay, he freely forgave them both" (Luke 7:42). On a spiritual level, by the grace and mercy of God, Jesus gave us a "fresh start" by canceling all our “sin” debts through His suffering and death on the cross. On an economic level, our nation will graciously help overburdened debtors, if necessary, by giving them a fresh start economically.

A guiding principle of U.S. bankruptcy law requires persons who file for bankruptcy to have "clean hands." Accordingly, a debtor may not be freed from debts involving fraud, drunk driving, and deliberate wrongdoing. Moreover, bankruptcy law does not allow the discharge of child support and alimony debts. Further, most student loans, taxes (Romans 13:1,4,7) and secured loans are not forgiven in bankruptcy. Through these restrictions, bankruptcy laws seek to balance justice and equity (Proverbs 1:3).

[londongrad]

Do you happen to know whether the people that your friends worked with spoke about religion at all (if this was applicable)?

I know that CAP offer services to people regardless of faith and don't try to convert people, but I don't know whether they would engage with my in-laws about their faith based concerns?

From my understanding, the CAP centers were set up in conjunction with a local church in the area and many of the volunteers also attended said church.

I would suggest that if your in laws were to ring the head office (based in Bradford) they may be able to give debt and any other advice needed.

[Playing with Fire UK]

Thanks Rockstache. That is amazing stuff.

I'll hand it over to my SIL. The points people have made about this being easier if it comes from their child rather than me are fair.

Thanks everyone!