Author Topic: Hello all - need help designing a MOST efficient plan  (Read 3495 times)

SpendyMcSpend

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Hello all - need help designing a MOST efficient plan
« on: April 29, 2018, 07:31:19 AM »
I need help designing a plan to most quickly and efficiently pile up money.  I need this money for 3 things:  1) to invest for early retirement 2) Down payment on a home 3) Peace of mind fund. I am 35 and have a long-term boyfriend and we are planning on having kids in the near future.

I started a new job in August 2017 - which was a big pay increase (prior job I was making $108k with a 6% bonus, while here I am making $125k with a 20-30% bonus.)  I got a pro rata bonus in December 2017 of $9,000 which I put into my 401k. Since starting here I have saved $15k in retirement.  I hate my job (I am on call all the time, with 15-20 different bosses who all don't know what else I'm working on).  Highly disorganized, and workload is unmanageably high.  I have started interviewing and expect to have an offer on the table this week.

Age:  35/F
Current Salary:  $125,000
New Salary:  $125,000+ (if all goes well)
Monthly Gross:  $10,416
401k/IRA Balances:  $190,000
Down Payment Fund:  $2,500
Student Loan Balance:  $12,300 (Down from $75,000)
Car: Own a beater which needs 2 new tires and a $800 repair
Debts:
CC1:  $4,900 (14% interest rate)
CC2:  $10,500 (of this, approximately $2,000 is at 0% and the rest at 17.4%)
CC3:  $8,111 ($3,000 of this is at an introductory rate of 0% which expires 7/13 so it will start charging interest on that amount monthly then.  $5,000 of this is at 0% balance transfer, and then I assume if I don't pay it off it will be whacked with a big interest charge all at once, unlike the $3,000.  So this expires 7/17 so I really need to pay it off by then). 
So in total for my credit cards, I need to pay off at the very least $7,000ish by July in cash but ideally much more than that.

Generally after taxes and health etc. taken out of my check I am left with $3,000 every 2 weeks net.  I have been attempting to pay my credit card off instead of investing in my 401k in 2018 but it's just not working.  I end up spending up to the amount I take in.  I'm using YNAB and it is helping a LOT though and allowed me to save that $2,500 in just a couple of months.

Budget:
Net Income:  $6000 (some months a little more)
Rent: $1,950 (have gotten a renter for my 2nd bedroom for 2 months who is paying me $1,025 a month plus utilities to help me pay off my credit cards)
Internet, Basic Cable and Mobile phone:  $205
Electricity/Gas:  $60
Car Insurance:  (I pay this twice a year but averages $75 a month)
Student loan : $67 (down from $550 since I paid them off)
Credit card minimums:  Approximately $400-500 a month
Food/Going out in NYC:  $500-800
Gym/Vacations/Miscellaneous:  $650
Clothing:  $50
Haircuts/personal care:  $75
Ad-hoc transportation (cabs/subway):  $75
Software/other subscriptions: $100

So that totals $4,500 and if I don't keep a close lid on it I spend up to the total $6,000.

I think rent is one of the culprits so that is why I am renting out my other room for a little while.  Food is definitely a culprit - one of the reasons I am changing my job is because I need to get home on time to cook dinner and make a lunch at least once in awhile.  I spent more on gym and classes than I normally do because I gained 15 pounds since working at this place and I needed a kick-start.

Obviously the ideal is to have $2,000 a month at least to pay off this debt.  I really want to do it sooner though and although I know this is a terrible idea, I kind of want to pull some out of my 401k before the interest rate grace period of 0% is up and just pay them off.  :(
« Last Edit: April 29, 2018, 07:53:02 AM by SpendyMcSpend »

SpendyMcSpend

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Re: Hello all - need help designing a MOST efficient plan
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2018, 07:43:34 AM »
Realized I left out a most important wrinkle.  I am going to give notice by a week from Monday if I get this offer.  I plan to work 2 weeks, then take 2 week off.  I will have $4,500 in checking by May 11th - so can save $1,950 of that for my next month's rent.  I will have a little bit of time where I am slightly squeezed for cash while I am off.  But plan to start this new most efficient plan when I begin getting paychecks again.

snogirl

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Re: Hello all - need help designing a MOST efficient plan
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2018, 07:50:46 AM »
When I wanted out of debt, I counted every single cent I spent with a 50 cent notebook and pen. That action, actually writing down, every day, where my money was bleeding, what bills I was paying, was extremely eye opening and pissed me off. It was a pain to do it but I realized I needed pain for no pain no gain. I stopped spending immediately. I cut out expenses because I got sick of writing. It made me responsible for my spending. Only basic needs were covered. I mean I cut cable, internet, eating out, vacations, gym, haircuts because I wanted my life to change. Debt is anchor. So are jobs we hate I had one of those too.
In 2 years, I shed the weight of my bone crushing debt over 66k. I modified my plan and could ease in some creature comforts like internet again.
You can do it too. I think the debt and living expenses are the culprit. To what extreme is how bad do you want to shed the anchors to your goals. You got an great opportunity with your salary. I was only making half of that. Best of luck with forming a plan.

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by_1008

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Re: Hello all - need help designing a MOST efficient plan
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2018, 10:32:27 AM »
Quick clarification: Is the 1,950 for rent AFTER accounting for the new roommate?

It's clear from this post that your spending is out of control. You admit often blowing through you monthly budgets. Looking at some of your previous posts, the credit card debt doesn't appear to be new. At your income level, there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to live well within your means.

Look back at your spending over the past 12 months. Has the amount of credit card debt gone up? You are really digging yourself a large hole with the interest on your credit cards. Imagine how much more flexibility you would have to contribute to retirement if you didn't have 400-500 dollars to pay off credit card interest.

Coming up with strategies as to which card to pay off first, how to prioritize debt vs retirement, and how to reduce your utilities are all good. But the elephant in the room is you are spending more than you are earning without knowing where it is going. This needs to be priority 1.

You don't show your assets - do you have any savings besides the $2500 down payment fund? You talk about taking time off of your job and being a little cash squeezed, which sounds crazy with your $20k in credit card debt.


Bluedonner

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Re: Hello all - need help designing a MOST efficient plan
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2018, 10:49:00 AM »
When I wanted out of debt, I counted every single cent I spent with a 50 cent notebook and pen. That action, actually writing down, every day, where my money was bleeding, what bills I was paying, was extremely eye opening and pissed me off. It was a pain to do it but I realized I needed pain for no pain no gain. I stopped spending immediately. I cut out expenses because I got sick of writing. It made me responsible for my spending. Only basic needs were covered. I mean I cut cable, internet, eating out, vacations, gym, haircuts because I wanted my life to change. Debt is anchor. So are jobs we hate I had one of those too.
In 2 years, I shed the weight of my bone crushing debt over 66k. I modified my plan and could ease in some creature comforts like internet again.
You can do it too. I think the debt and living expenses are the culprit. To what extreme is how bad do you want to shed the anchors to your goals. You got an great opportunity with your salary. I was only making half of that. Best of luck with forming a plan.

This is a great post and good advice. Going to implement this is my own plan, starting today. Debt is an anchor for sure!

SpendyMcSpend

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Re: Hello all - need help designing a MOST efficient plan
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2018, 11:02:38 AM »
I have $190,000 in investments aside from my $2,500 E-fund.  I used to have $75,000 in student loans but I've paid that down to $12,500.  I paid cash for my MBA.

Once the roommate is here, my rent will be $925 a month.  I do actually know where the money goes.  $800+ a month on food, and $1100 a month on vacations lately.  However, when given the actual choice between ordering in and cooking, I choose ordering in every time.  That's why I think I should cut up my cards entirely. 

And yes the credit card debt has been around for awhile.

MDM

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Re: Hello all - need help designing a MOST efficient plan
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2018, 01:51:47 PM »
I have been attempting to pay my credit card off instead of investing in my 401k in 2018 but it's just not working.
What isn't working?  You can't get your employer to stop 401k withholding?  Or you can't pay $2000 (or whatever) every two weeks to the credit card company because...?

Carrie

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Re: Hello all - need help designing a MOST efficient plan
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2018, 07:18:49 PM »
Stop all eating/drinking out and vacations until you are out of debt. You can't afford it.

Freedomin5

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Re: Hello all - need help designing a MOST efficient plan
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2018, 12:39:46 AM »
OMG...put your credit cards in the freezer in a block of ice until you get rid of the CC debt! You're paying 17% in interest on the CC debt! I doubt your investments are giving you a 17% ROI. You're much better off throwing all your extra money into this CC debt until it's gone, and then make sure you pay off your CC each month. Don't ever carry a CC balance again.

At this point, you can't afford $1100 on vacations and $600 on gym and other frivolities. And $800 on food. Do some meal planning -- cook on the weekends for the entire week, so that when you're pooped from a day of work you can just grab something out of the fridge/freezer and warm it up. Budget Bytes is a good place to start for simple, cheap, and delicious meals. Also, no more new clothing until your CC debt is gone.

Yes, it's going to hurt and it's not going to be pleasant, so the question is how serious are you to "most quickly and efficiently pile up money"? If you continue spending on vacations and clothes and fancy food, then your money pile up is neither going to be quick nor efficient.

WalkaboutStache

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Re: Hello all - need help designing a MOST efficient plan
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2018, 01:29:01 AM »
Unless your investments yield 17% or you have a massive penalty, liquidate the investments and pay the cards off.  Then cut the cards.  If you need to keep one card to pay for things online, choose one ask for a line of credit reduction down to 1K.  If they won't give you a reduction, cut that one too since actually having to make the effort to shop instead of clicking might be good for you.

And read this:

https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/04/18/news-flash-your-debt-is-an-emergency/


« Last Edit: April 30, 2018, 05:22:44 AM by WalkaboutStache »

marty998

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Re: Hello all - need help designing a MOST efficient plan
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2018, 03:24:20 AM »
I went all the way back to some of your 2012 posts and you did not have credit card debt back then. I find it unfathomable that you have been here for 6 years and you now have credit card debt!

And you were earning a lot less back then, and had higher student loan payments, and were spending almost nothing on gym, vacations, misc.

What on earth happened???

I appreciate you've paid off almost all your student loans, but that is $50k out of over a million bucks that you and your boyfriend have earned in this time.

What are we missing here?

Villanelle

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Re: Hello all - need help designing a MOST efficient plan
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2018, 05:14:10 AM »
You can't afford to take 2 weeks off.  Sorry, but no.  Just don't do it.

You can't afford a gym membership.  You don't need a gym membership to not gain 15 pounds.  There are free workout videos, using body weight, on Youtube, and you can adjust your diet.

You can't afford $50/mo in clothes.

You can't afford to eat out.  (I'll give you $30/mo.)  If you get home late, use a crock pot. 

You can't afford vacations.  (Perhaps allow yourself a long weekend on a very tight budget once you have 95% of that cc debt paid off, but not a penny before then.)

You can't afford cable.

You can't afford $75 in personal care.  (You get $20, which is enough for a cheapish hair cut every 4-8 weeks.)

Just stop those things.  That's it.  It's quite simple.  The cuts you need to make are obvious.  Whether or not you make them is the real question.  Do you actually want to fix this or do you want to talk about fixing it so you can tell yourself you are responsible and you are trying, but you don't actually have to give anything up?

These cuts may feel extreme.  First, they aren't.  And second, they are only temporary.  (Although once you get the CC debt paid off, you need to not revert back to 100% of your current expenses.  But you can ease off the restrictions and maybe plan a modest vacation each year and get allow yourself a new pair of shoes (moderate!) or to increase that eating out budget by $10.


MoseyingAlong

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Re: Hello all - need help designing a MOST efficient plan
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2018, 09:53:14 AM »
Unless your investments yield 17% or you have a massive penalty, liquidate the investments and pay the cards off.  Then cut the cards.  If you need to keep one card to pay for things online, choose one ask for a line of credit reduction down to 1K.  If they won't give you a reduction, cut that one too since actually having to make the effort to shop instead of clicking might be good for you.

And read this:

https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/04/18/news-flash-your-debt-is-an-emergency/

No, please do not do this (yet, maybe ever).
Many people get into a cycle of running up debt, cashing out their retirement savings to pay off that debt, paying taxes & penalties, running up more debt, etc. Please don't start that.

Your income is plenty, especially with your excellent move in getting a roomie. Put your excess cash flow towards the debt, if you end up paying interest for a month or two, it's okay. Probably quite a bit less expensive than the taxes and penalties would be.

Meanwhile try some different methods to control your spending. If YNAB's not enough, try cash in envelopes. If you don't want to deal with cash, pay all your bills first and then use a debit card with no overdraft associated. The key is to find a method that works for you to control your spending.

HTH and good luck!

sokoloff

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Re: Hello all - need help designing a MOST efficient plan
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2018, 10:00:55 AM »
Debts:
CC1:  $4,900 (14% interest rate)
CC2:  $10,500 (of this, approximately $2,000 is at 0% and the rest at 17.4%)
CC3:  $8,111 ($3,000 of this is at an introductory rate of 0% which expires 7/13 so it will start charging interest on that amount monthly then.  $5,000 of this is at 0% balance transfer, and then I assume if I don't pay it off it will be whacked with a big interest charge all at once, unlike the $3,000.  So this expires 7/17 so I really need to pay it off by then). 

Budget:
Credit card minimums:  Approximately $400-500 a month
Food/Going out in NYC:  $500-800
Gym/Vacations/Miscellaneous:  $650

I think rent is one of the culprits so that is why I am renting out my other room for a little while...
$23K in credit card debt, paying only the minimums, and spending more on both food/going out AND gym/vacations/misc is the culprit.

It's great to rent out a room, but don't kid yourself that rent is the culprit. Spending is the culprit and you're now planning to take two unpaid weeks between jobs.

That's a choice, but it's not the choice that puts you $5000 (gross income for two weeks) farther behind the solution to your problems.
Don't take money out of your 401K to pay off the credit card debts. Leave that money in there and suffer through paying them off out of cash flow. Get stricter about your monthly cash flow so that you would find it insane to pass up $5K in income while being $23K in credit card debt.

Wayward

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Re: Hello all - need help designing a MOST efficient plan
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2018, 11:52:16 AM »
What has all this debt purchased?  Has it increased your happiness and improved your quality of life?

Forgive me if I cause offense, it seems you are highly stressed and perhaps self-medicating with overconsumption to make yourself feel better.  It’s not going to work, you need to resolve the actual, deeper issues.  It could be you have experienced lifestyle inflation as your salary increased.  Perhaps you felt you “deserved it” after paying so much toward the student loans and experienced burn out?  Please reach out on the forum if burn out is the case – it shouldn’t be all misery and deprivation.

As stated by @snogirl, I write down every penny that comes in or goes out in a small book (I also use Excel for being organized and making pretty charts).  It was a pain at first, but it really forced me to consider every purchase.  Now I look forward to updating my book and spreadsheets, especially when I have a particularly low-spend month! 

You have a spending problem, not an income problem, so that needs to be your focus.  Personally, I don’t believe in cancelling cards completely and paying everything in cash because I want to have good credit.  In your case though, you need a break from credit cards until the spending issue is resolved so remove all but one for emergencies from your wallet (preferably a great rewards one without a balance and pay it in full each month!).  Make sure you are paying the minimum each month to the balance transfer amounts to pay them off before the 0% interest offers expire.  The other debts need to be killed off by the snowball (lowest balance first) or avalanche (highest interest rate first) method; the avalanche method is the most efficient, the idea is to pay as little interest as possible.  You may even be able to get another 0% offer which would help you tremendously, but you need to promise NOT TO ADD A PENNY MORE TO THE DEBT!  You can also call the credit card companies to see if they can lower the interest rates.

Once your spending is under control, you may consider lowering your 401k contribution temporarily to pay off the debt, but not if that money is going to be wasted.

You also don’t have enough savings in an Emergency Fund, get it up to at least 2-3 months as quickly as possible.  Keep your emergency fund in a high-interest saving account like Ally Bank (1.35% APY).  Make saving automatic; set up a automatic transfer each paycheck even if it’s only $50 to start.  I wouldn’t feel comfortable taking 2 weeks off between jobs.  Is there a reason you want to do this?

Make sure to keep a running list of wants and needs with the costs so that you are setting aside money to get them, NOT JUST USING CREDIT CARDS MINDLESSLY.  I was surprised how many “needs” were really unnecessary “wants” that ended up disappearing from my list after a few months. 

Set goals and have small rewards for achieving them (like purchasing an item from the wants/needs list, going out to eat, etc.)

See if you have items you don’t need or aren’t using and sell them.

Keep renting your spare room, with the right roommate it's a positive experience and helpful financially.  Keep the big three as low as possible (housing, food, and transportation).

Find free or cheaper ways to decompress (for me that means meditating, reading, taking a jog or exercising, having a mini spa at home, practicing a hobby, or being in nature)... do what works for you.   

Read Your Money or Your Life and The Life-Changing Magic of Tidying Up.

Jouer

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Re: Hello all - need help designing a MOST efficient plan
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2018, 12:02:52 PM »
Yep, this is an easy one. (Easy to diagnose, not necessarily easy to do)

You are spending your money first and then paying debt when you need to do it the other way around. Calculate how much you'll need to pay monthly for 8 months to get out from your debt. That amount automatically goes into your credit card payment every pay cheque. What money you have left over is what you have to spend. It's up to you to decide which spending buckets that money comes out of.

Great job on the investments though.

WalkaboutStache

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Re: Hello all - need help designing a MOST efficient plan
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2018, 05:02:48 PM »
Unless your investments yield 17% or you have a massive penalty, liquidate the investments and pay the cards off.  Then cut the cards.  If you need to keep one card to pay for things online, choose one ask for a line of credit reduction down to 1K.  If they won't give you a reduction, cut that one too since actually having to make the effort to shop instead of clicking might be good for you.

And read this:

https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/04/18/news-flash-your-debt-is-an-emergency/

No, please do not do this (yet, maybe ever).
Many people get into a cycle of running up debt, cashing out their retirement savings to pay off that debt, paying taxes & penalties, running up more debt, etc. Please don't start that.

Your income is plenty, especially with your excellent move in getting a roomie. Put your excess cash flow towards the debt, if you end up paying interest for a month or two, it's okay. Probably quite a bit less expensive than the taxes and penalties would be.

Meanwhile try some different methods to control your spending. If YNAB's not enough, try cash in envelopes. If you don't want to deal with cash, pay all your bills first and then use a debit card with no overdraft associated. The key is to find a method that works for you to control your spending.

HTH and good luck!

I did say if there are not massive penalties, no?

Don't pay off your debt because you will probably incur more debt strikes me as counter-intuitive, especially when part of the idea is to cut up the cards so as not to keep spending.

If I were to clarify anything, it would be to say "liquidate enough of your investments" but I still think the rest is absolutely right. OP has a debt emergency.

Chrissy

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Re: Hello all - need help designing a MOST efficient plan
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2018, 10:51:40 PM »
Why aren't you living with your boyfriend?

Get yourself to the Food Emporium or C-Mart or whatever and stock up on frozen dinners.  Pre-made stuff is a LOT cheaper than ordering food.  Maximum time in the microwave is 5min.

It's awesome that you're having success with YNAB!  However, your down-payment fund needs to be applied to CC3. Anything you have needs to be applied to your credit card debt (except your 401k, don't touch that). 

How much is the gym exactly?

I don't see fuel in your expenses.  How often are you driving the car?

Counting_Down

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Re: Hello all - need help designing a MOST efficient plan
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2018, 05:51:21 PM »
You say your top goals are 1) invest for early retirement 2)Down payment on a home 3) Peace of mind.
To me peace of mind comes from (in this order): 1)Eliminating debt 2)Amassing a nest egg 3)securing housing (buying that house). Its tempting to buy the house before the nest egg, but you’ve shown to not have a lot of restraint.  Prove to yourself you can save the money first, don’t reward yourself before putting in the hard work.

As others have commented you make plenty of money but appear to have a spending problem.  Your expenses are a bit ridiculous, and I’m shocked you can’t figure out where to trim the fat.  But, for a most efficient plan, here’s what I would do.
1)   Cancel your gym/ stop vacationing/no misc: savings $650/mo
2)   Cook all your food until your debt is paid off. Plan meals with bf or roommate, use crockpot, but figure it out and stop ordering out. Stop going out temporarily. Savings $800/mo
3)   Stop the personal care or trade services (you have a skill?) with someone to cut your hair, better yet, learn to do it yourself.  I’ll give you a little for makeup or whatever. Savings $50/mo
4)   You don’t need new clothes right now: savings $50/mo
5)   Use the train, no ad-hoc transport.  You’ve stopped going out anyway. Savings $75/mo
6)   Cancel your other subscriptions: $100/mo
7)   Drop basic cable, you can stream if you want entertainment Savings $75/mo.
Bonus: trim cell bill, utilities, work side hustle with your new time from taking all your nights and weekends back.  Many tips on this blog.
Total: 1710/mo saved

Dump that into CC until paid off; should take 10 months.  Roll over 1710+previous credit card minimums (for a total of $2200 towards debt) into student loan until that’s gone.

Assess if you’d like to reintroduce going out 1x/mo, or haircuts, or whatever at this point.  You should have cut some of the habits out so you’ll want to do this stuff less.  If not, continue practicing restraint.  You can’t go back to what you used to do, so only pick one or two frivolities if you absolutely *need* it.

Continue saving now that you’ve opened up a potential $2277/mo.  Max out your 401k at 18500/year.  Then put your $$ into a taxable Vanguard account.  Have money talk with BF and make sure you both are realistic and on the same page with saving and spending habits. Accumulate until you find the house you want and have enough in Vanguard to afford a down payment.  Sell stocks (make note if the act of selling makes you uncomfortable now that you’re actually spending money you worked hard to save – most people change their relationship with money after they take control of their habits).  Buy house YOU CAN AFFORD.  Keep saving. 

It wasn’t quick to build bad habits or get yourself in debt.  So don’t expect things to change right away for the better.  I can promise it builds momentum, though.  Remember, 333K is ½ of the way to a Million in time.

SpendyMcSpend

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Re: Hello all - need help designing a MOST efficient plan
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2018, 06:39:42 PM »
Thank you guys.  I appreciate especially the last post with the most efficient plan written out.  I got a new job so now making $130,000.  A poster mentioned that I was self-medicating because I was burning out and that is absolutely true.  I was on call nights, weekends, all the time.  I am constantly stressed. I purposely looked for a job where I can leave at 5pm every day if not earlier.  I plan to use this time wisely.  I got in credit card debt after 2012 because my salary went from $95k to $57k as I changed careers, and now I've steadily increased my income.  It is a new start.  And no, I do not have a years long habit of credit cards just the last couple of years for some reason.  As my income increased, I stopped being so careful about money. :(  The food spending is my most consistent problem and the only way to deal with it is cutting the cards up because I have zero willpower.