Author Topic: Replace roof before selling?  (Read 2375 times)

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8833
  • Registered member
Replace roof before selling?
« on: September 05, 2018, 05:43:51 PM »
Typically, I'm not a fan of doing work on a house that's going to get less than 100% return.  However, I just tried to get an insurance quote on my house and apparently because the roof is over 20 years, they won't write a policy.  Now I'm worried this will be an issue for potential buyers if I list next year.

This was somewhat discussed previously, but in that thread the seller knew the roof was bad.  In my case, although the roof is old and will need replacement "soon," it's not leaking yet.  Some of the trim will probably need to be replaced due to rot.  I would do the work myself but it's a tall house and not that comfortable risking my life, although it's possible if quotes are really bad (all trades here in the bay area are beyond expensive due to booming economy and housing market).

So what do you think?  Replace it now before the rains?  Wait until spring and replace immediately before listing?  Get an inspection?  Let the buyers suck it up?  Now that I think about it, a place nearby did sell with known roof leaks and it doesn't seem like buyers had trouble financing, although the seller definitely didn't get a good price due to home condition.


sailinlight

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 95
Re: Replace roof before selling?
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2018, 06:04:19 PM »
I have found the best bang for the buck with regards to fixing things before selling is to do simple cosmetic changes that will wow potential buyers, not technical things like roofs and air conditioners. 1) Those things cost more money and 2) are less likely to be noticed by buyers. People like very visual things like fresh paint, new light fixtures, bathroom and kitchen fixtures, and maybe even a fancy countertop if yours is old.

Also, I don't think the 20 year old roof insurance policy things is universal. Our roof is 25 years old and the insurance company didn't say anything about it.

Another Reader

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5109
Re: Replace roof before selling?
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2018, 06:31:06 PM »
The market here in Silly Valley is transitioning from a seller's market.  Buyers are rejecting houses that are not perfect because they now have choices.

I would get inspections and bids for the work which will be outrageous unfortunately.  If the roof is serviceable for another winter, maybe replace the rotted trim and see what happens.  If you decide to sell in the spring, then work with your savvy agent to decide what to do.

snogirl

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 367
Re: Replace roof before selling?
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2018, 08:04:47 PM »
The last house I bought with a sketchy roof was negotiated with cash back at closing to get it repaired. I noticed it. And my inspector did too. 

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk


dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8833
  • Registered member
Re: Replace roof before selling?
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2018, 08:41:50 PM »
The last house I bought with a sketchy roof was negotiated with cash back at closing to get it repaired. I noticed it. And my inspector did too. 

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

I personally donít think the roof is sketchy since itís a ď40 year roofĒ thatís like 21 years old.  Yes I know the marketing is BS and likely running on borrowed time, but itís not an urgent matter or I would have already replaced it

FINate

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1465
Re: Replace roof before selling?
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2018, 08:56:18 PM »
We replaced an AC before selling our house. Though that's because it was properly broken and the rest of the house was remodeled very nicely. We were shooting for the move-in ready market - I wasn't going to put a >$1M house in the market with a broken AC. Was probably a good move because Silly Valley RE market has slowed a bit this summer. If the house was more of a fixer-upper or otherwise dated I think I would have just sold it as-is.

In your case I think I would probably:
1) Fix the rotten trim - should be cheap and failing to do so will get the attention of termite inspectors.
2) Leave the roof as-is assuming there are still no leaks.
3) Get roof, property, and pest inspections before putting on the market. No need to remedy issues discovered, but give this info to potential buyers before they write offers.

If the roof was leaking or in bad repair then I would consider replacing it, otherwise who knows, may be good for another 5-10 years.

snogirl

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 367
Re: Replace roof before selling?
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2018, 09:22:21 PM »
The last house I bought with a sketchy roof was negotiated with cash back at closing to get it repaired. I noticed it. And my inspector did too. 

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

I personally don’t think the roof is sketchy since it’s a “40 year roof” that’s like 21 years old.  Yes I know the marketing is BS and likely running on borrowed time, but it’s not an urgent matter or I would have already replaced it
Maybe sketchy wasn't the right word. Any roof imo over 20 years is questionable regardless of the longevity advertised. It just doesn't happen with the environmental conditions the material is exposed today. Especially with evidence of facia damage.  I've purchased several houses. There's a reason insurance companies are going in that direction. Educated potential buyers won't suck it up.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk


Dr.Jeckyl

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 143
Re: Replace roof before selling?
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2018, 07:45:09 AM »
At my old house I had a lot of trees and a branch fell on my roof and damaged it. I called State Farm and they came out and cut me a check so I could have the roof repaired. They then dropped me because of the "age" of my roof even though it was in decent shape other than the hole I mentioned. I signed up with Allstate immediately who came out and inspected my house and insured me. Sometimes a change of insurance company is in order.

I sold that same home with the old roof a couple years ago. Price was adjusted for the age of the roof but the adjustment of price was less than what I would have paid to get a new roof installed.

affordablehousing

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 375
Re: Replace roof before selling?
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2018, 11:49:10 AM »
Just let the roof go and have it be buyer beware. Funny, we got a place that the seller made a big deal about saying all these things needed to be fixed, getting outrageous quotes for, and everyone discounted their bids. Then it turned out they all worked fine, just needing simple fixes. For example, they said the furnace didn't work and needed replacing for $9K. Turns out the thermostat wasn't wired and that's why the seller thought it needed replacing....

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8833
  • Registered member
Re: Replace roof before selling?
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2018, 04:22:17 PM »
how do we have two separate users who use the phrase "silly valley"?  I didn't know we were in the FOX news comment section

FINate

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1465
Re: Replace roof before selling?
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2018, 05:36:12 PM »
how do we have two separate users who use the phrase "silly valley"?  I didn't know we were in the FOX news comment section

The Silly Valley moniker is pretty common in the greater Bay Area. From what I've observed its usage is more often associate with those frustrated with the growth, traffic, and gentrification resulting from the tech expansion. Think tech bus protesters. Or in Santa Cruz, where I live, anti-capitalist anarchists. Hardly FOX News types :)

Having worked for ~2 decades in Tech in and around SV, I can confirm that much of it is indeed silly. Goofy company names, products that cater to extremely narrow "needs", a myopic view of the world, and an unquestioned almost messianic complex that tech will solve all our problems, burnt out houses (literally) selling for near $1M, lavish company campuses...yeah, there's a lot of silliness.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2018, 05:41:06 PM by FINate »

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8833
  • Registered member
Re: Replace roof before selling?
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2018, 05:49:07 PM »
how do we have two separate users who use the phrase "silly valley"?  I didn't know we were in the FOX news comment section

The Silly Valley moniker is pretty common in the greater Bay Area. From what I've observed its usage is more often associate with those frustrated with the growth, traffic, and gentrification resulting from the tech expansion. Think tech bus protesters. Or in Santa Cruz, where I live, anti-capitalist anarchists. Hardly FOX News types :)

Having worked for ~2 decades in Tech in and around SV, I can confirm that much of it is indeed silly. Goofy company names, products that cater to extremely narrow "needs", a myopic view of the world, and an unquestioned almost messianic complex that tech will solve all our problems, burnt out houses (literally) selling for near $1M, lavish company campuses...yeah, there's a lot of silliness.

I donít want to start a native war, but Iíve never heard any actual locals use that phrase in four decades

Iím not saying you are wrong, but Iíve also never interacted with any of these people

JLee

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5694
Re: Replace roof before selling?
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2018, 06:00:29 PM »
FWIW I had my roof replaced (Phoenix) before I put the house on the market. I was under contract in 3 days with a cash offer $1k over asking.

Your results may vary...but in my case, spending the money for a new roof with transferable warranty paid off with a rapid sale. I also had new flooring and interior paint done at the same time so the house was basically turn-key.

FINate

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1465
Re: Replace roof before selling?
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2018, 06:21:38 PM »
how do we have two separate users who use the phrase "silly valley"?  I didn't know we were in the FOX news comment section

The Silly Valley moniker is pretty common in the greater Bay Area. From what I've observed its usage is more often associate with those frustrated with the growth, traffic, and gentrification resulting from the tech expansion. Think tech bus protesters. Or in Santa Cruz, where I live, anti-capitalist anarchists. Hardly FOX News types :)

Having worked for ~2 decades in Tech in and around SV, I can confirm that much of it is indeed silly. Goofy company names, products that cater to extremely narrow "needs", a myopic view of the world, and an unquestioned almost messianic complex that tech will solve all our problems, burnt out houses (literally) selling for near $1M, lavish company campuses...yeah, there's a lot of silliness.

I donít want to start a native war, but Iíve never heard any actual locals use that phrase in four decades

Iím not saying you are wrong, but Iíve also never interacted with any of these people

Hell, it's even used elsewhere here on MMM by users with fairly high post counts: https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aforum.mrmoneymustache.com+%22Silly+Valley%22

I just don't get how you'd make the logical leap from people using the term "Silly Valley" to the assumption that this forum is becoming like the FOX News comment section. Very strange.

Dicey

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 11233
  • Age: 61
  • Location: NorCal
Re: Replace roof before selling?
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2018, 06:38:00 PM »
how do we have two separate users who use the phrase "silly valley"?  I didn't know we were in the FOX news comment section

The Silly Valley moniker is pretty common in the greater Bay Area. From what I've observed its usage is more often associate with those frustrated with the growth, traffic, and gentrification resulting from the tech expansion. Think tech bus protesters. Or in Santa Cruz, where I live, anti-capitalist anarchists. Hardly FOX News types :)

Having worked for ~2 decades in Tech in and around SV, I can confirm that much of it is indeed silly. Goofy company names, products that cater to extremely narrow "needs", a myopic view of the world, and an unquestioned almost messianic complex that tech will solve all our problems, burnt out houses (literally) selling for near $1M, lavish company campuses...yeah, there's a lot of silliness.

I donít want to start a native war, but Iíve never heard any actual locals use that phrase in four decades

Iím not saying you are wrong, but Iíve also never interacted with any of these people
I hear you, dragoncar. It's as grating to me as the people who call our fine state (screwed up as it is) 'Cali'. Fuck, no! And it ain't 'Frisco' either. Now get the hell off my (non-existent) lawn!

Dicey

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 11233
  • Age: 61
  • Location: NorCal
Re: Replace roof before selling?
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2018, 06:41:48 PM »
The market here in Silly Valley is transitioning from a seller's market.  Buyers are rejecting houses that are not perfect because they now have choices.

I would get inspections and bids for the work which will be outrageous unfortunately.  If the roof is serviceable for another winter, maybe replace the rotted trim and see what happens.  If you decide to sell in the spring, then work with your savvy agent to decide what to do.
I was going to simply add a plus one to Another Reader's pithy observations, but I had to go tilt at another windmill first.

I'll add, when the markets are raging, the seller don' gotta do nuthin', but the market may be cooling. It's hard to know what it's going to look like six months or a year from now. I an just a tiny bit pessimistic. That's because we're doing a flip that's still a few months away from completion, of course.

Another Reader

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5109
Re: Replace roof before selling?
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2018, 07:35:13 PM »
I don't watch Fox news and I have lived in the Bay area for over 60 years.  My father was born in Oakland almost 100 years ago and worked at HP when there was still a quonset hut and they played softball (I think it was softball) on Friday afternoons.  I can't remember when I first started calling this mess Silly Valley, but it's an apt moniker today.

ETA:  Dicey - get that house finished and on the market around Superbowl time.  It's your best shot with the early buyers out looking and minimum competition.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2018, 07:40:33 PM by Another Reader »

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8833
  • Registered member
Re: Replace roof before selling?
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2018, 08:44:56 PM »
I say Fox News because itís extremly similar in character to ďpeopleís republic of berkeleyĒ, ďdemifornia,Ē and other ridiculous names Iíve seen only online.  These are people who always seem to be leaving the state because of the damn libruals or asking the immigration status of any criminal, or talking about how bad traffic is now, compared to the golden days when the economy was fruit based.

To be serious for a moment, what exactly is silly about SV?  The only negative is that real estate prices are high, which is a direct result of economic success in the region.  So silly.  Much wow.

FINate

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1465
Re: Replace roof before selling?
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2018, 09:12:06 PM »
I say Fox News because itís extremly similar in character to ďpeopleís republic of berkeleyĒ, ďdemifornia,Ē and other ridiculous names Iíve seen only online.  These are people who always seem to be leaving the state because of the damn libruals or asking the immigration status of any criminal, or talking about how bad traffic is now, compared to the golden days when the economy was fruit based.

To be serious for a moment, what exactly is silly about SV?  The only negative is that real estate prices are high, which is a direct result of economic success in the region.  So silly.  Much wow.

Plenty of silly. Keep in mind, born and raised around here, and had a great career in Tech.

Adding thousands of high-paying jobs yet for the most part refusing to build housing is silly. More than silly, it's cruel.

Allowing entrenched homeowners (of which I am) to force an urban-sprawl footprint of low-density housing is silly. For an area that claims to be eco conscious it's ridiculous that people are being priced out to super-commute areas such as Tracy, Gilroy, Hollister, and even Los Banos and Stockton.

It's silly that BART doesn't at least circle the entire bay. If I recall correctly, history is that the rich white folks on the peninsula feared riff-raff coming in on public transit. So now all commuters and the environment suffer because of this silliness.

It's silly that people protest the tech busses (and the protests themselves are often *very* silly), instead of recognizing that a company treating its employees well while also getting cars off the road is a win-win and more companies should do this, not less.

It's silly that multiple municipalities have increased taxes on new housing in an attempt to make housing more affordable...SMH.

It's silly that in the midst of a housing shortage on the level of a crisis that multiple municipalities in SV are instituting Rent Control, which economists almost unanimously agree will make the housing crisis worse. (Rent Control advocates are the Left's version of Climate Change deniers).

It's silly when a company with nothing more than vaporware and a supposed wonderkid founder is vaulted to $9B valuation with very few questions asked while refusing to adhere to industry standards, botches life critical blood tests, and then implodes and dissolves completely. There are many other examples of unrealistic expectations/valuation (the "Unicorn Zombies"), but won't go into it here.

Almost the entirety of the Tech Bubble 1.0 was extremely silly.

Yes, silly aplenty.

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8833
  • Registered member
Re: Replace roof before selling?
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2018, 12:06:19 AM »
I say Fox News because itís extremly similar in character to ďpeopleís republic of berkeleyĒ, ďdemifornia,Ē and other ridiculous names Iíve seen only online.  These are people who always seem to be leaving the state because of the damn libruals or asking the immigration status of any criminal, or talking about how bad traffic is now, compared to the golden days when the economy was fruit based.

To be serious for a moment, what exactly is silly about SV?  The only negative is that real estate prices are high, which is a direct result of economic success in the region.  So silly.  Much wow.

Plenty of silly. Keep in mind, born and raised around here, and had a great career in Tech.

Adding thousands of high-paying jobs yet for the most part refusing to build housing is silly. More than silly, it's cruel.

Allowing entrenched homeowners (of which I am) to force an urban-sprawl footprint of low-density housing is silly. For an area that claims to be eco conscious it's ridiculous that people are being priced out to super-commute areas such as Tracy, Gilroy, Hollister, and even Los Banos and Stockton.

It's silly that BART doesn't at least circle the entire bay. If I recall correctly, history is that the rich white folks on the peninsula feared riff-raff coming in on public transit. So now all commuters and the environment suffer because of this silliness.

It's silly that people protest the tech busses (and the protests themselves are often *very* silly), instead of recognizing that a company treating its employees well while also getting cars off the road is a win-win and more companies should do this, not less.

It's silly that multiple municipalities have increased taxes on new housing in an attempt to make housing more affordable...SMH.

It's silly that in the midst of a housing shortage on the level of a crisis that multiple municipalities in SV are instituting Rent Control, which economists almost unanimously agree will make the housing crisis worse. (Rent Control advocates are the Left's version of Climate Change deniers).

It's silly when a company with nothing more than vaporware and a supposed wonderkid founder is vaulted to $9B valuation with very few questions asked while refusing to adhere to industry standards, botches life critical blood tests, and then implodes and dissolves completely. There are many other examples of unrealistic expectations/valuation (the "Unicorn Zombies"), but won't go into it here.

Almost the entirety of the Tech Bubble 1.0 was extremely silly.

Yes, silly aplenty.

OK, these are valid complaints, but they are no different in magnitude than any other geographical area.  Do you call the US "silly states?"  IMO SV is no sillier than any other place in this country.

FINate

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1465
Re: Replace roof before selling?
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2018, 12:24:50 AM »
I say Fox News because itís extremly similar in character to ďpeopleís republic of berkeleyĒ, ďdemifornia,Ē and other ridiculous names Iíve seen only online.  These are people who always seem to be leaving the state because of the damn libruals or asking the immigration status of any criminal, or talking about how bad traffic is now, compared to the golden days when the economy was fruit based.

To be serious for a moment, what exactly is silly about SV?  The only negative is that real estate prices are high, which is a direct result of economic success in the region.  So silly.  Much wow.

Plenty of silly. Keep in mind, born and raised around here, and had a great career in Tech.

Adding thousands of high-paying jobs yet for the most part refusing to build housing is silly. More than silly, it's cruel.

Allowing entrenched homeowners (of which I am) to force an urban-sprawl footprint of low-density housing is silly. For an area that claims to be eco conscious it's ridiculous that people are being priced out to super-commute areas such as Tracy, Gilroy, Hollister, and even Los Banos and Stockton.

It's silly that BART doesn't at least circle the entire bay. If I recall correctly, history is that the rich white folks on the peninsula feared riff-raff coming in on public transit. So now all commuters and the environment suffer because of this silliness.

It's silly that people protest the tech busses (and the protests themselves are often *very* silly), instead of recognizing that a company treating its employees well while also getting cars off the road is a win-win and more companies should do this, not less.

It's silly that multiple municipalities have increased taxes on new housing in an attempt to make housing more affordable...SMH.

It's silly that in the midst of a housing shortage on the level of a crisis that multiple municipalities in SV are instituting Rent Control, which economists almost unanimously agree will make the housing crisis worse. (Rent Control advocates are the Left's version of Climate Change deniers).

It's silly when a company with nothing more than vaporware and a supposed wonderkid founder is vaulted to $9B valuation with very few questions asked while refusing to adhere to industry standards, botches life critical blood tests, and then implodes and dissolves completely. There are many other examples of unrealistic expectations/valuation (the "Unicorn Zombies"), but won't go into it here.

Almost the entirety of the Tech Bubble 1.0 was extremely silly.

Yes, silly aplenty.

OK, these are valid complaints, but they are no different in magnitude than any other geographical area.  Do you call the US "silly states?"  IMO SV is no sillier than any other place in this country.

Yeah, but those other places don't have the initials SV to work with ;-) And I disagree that it's the same in magnitude as other areas. SV has gone through some incredible ups and downs. It might compare to the silliness in NYC finance in the 2000s, or some of the property bubbles in Florida, but I wouldn't say it's something common in any other geographical area.

Seriously though, every place has a degree of silliness for sure. Seattle has enacted pretty strong restrictions on landlords, but they are also building a ton of housing and the right type. Same for Portland (I'm fond of Oregon's UGBs and general approach to urban planning).  There are many small-medium size cities in the US that are very livable that haven't attempted to strangle their own progress. SV has the jobs, the climate, the universities, ocean, mountains, natural beauty, and consequently people want to live here. All great things other places would kill for.  So it seems extra silly for having managed to create a dystopia for all but the wealthiest when it has so much going for it.

ETA - Should be clear that I do love it here, and think it has a lot of positives. Though I'm pretty sure my family doesn't have a long-term future here. Really I'm just spouting off some of the things that justify the Silly Valley label.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2018, 12:32:14 AM by FINate »

Dicey

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 11233
  • Age: 61
  • Location: NorCal
Re: Replace roof before selling?
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2018, 12:32:04 AM »
Uh, it's not just the initials SV, it's Sili-con Valley. The sili is already there, silly.

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8833
  • Registered member
Re: Replace roof before selling?
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2018, 12:47:38 AM »
Uh, it's not just the initials SV, it's Sili-con Valley. The sili is already there, silly.

I guess I just donít go for facile name calling, mr die and see

ilsy

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 182
Re: Replace roof before selling?
« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2018, 04:35:00 PM »
New roof will not increase the value of a house, it's considered a maintenance. I happened to refinance my house before and right after roof replacement, 2 years between the evaluation, the difference was $500 between the 1st and the last valuations. So, the bank won't finance more just because the roof is brand new. They consider that if it leaks it has to be replaced (maintenance). Another thing is old roof is going to be a negotiation point for potential buyers. If the house is in the area of a hight demand, don't worry about the roof. You will sell anyways. If your current insurance doesn't drop your insurance,  don't worry about insurance. Realtors will find for your potential buyers insurance company that will insure a house with old roof, Realtors are very interested to get their payckeck.

Dicey

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 11233
  • Age: 61
  • Location: NorCal
Re: Replace roof before selling?
« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2018, 07:33:18 PM »
Uh, it's not just the initials SV, it's Sili-con Valley. The sili is already there, silly.

I guess I just donít go for facile name calling, mr die and see
I totally agree with you on the name calling...butbutbut I don't wanna die!