Author Topic: Job advice  (Read 1214 times)

SereneOne

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Job advice
« on: March 05, 2023, 08:04:58 PM »
I have a bit of a dilemma.

Job A: I work 200 days a year and make 93000 a year. I get the summer off with the kids and we have lots of fun every year. Hiking, going to the pool, hitting up parks etc. I LOVE my summers. This job offers me maximum flexibility. I rarely if ever stay late, don't ever think about the job while I'm not there and have the occasional option to work from home and TONS of autonomy. I love 30% of my day to day work. Downside? This job crushes my soul (LOTS of technical writing. As in 100 reports a year. That is 1 every 2 days for those counting) with no end in sight. The job is entirely driven by deadlines, compliance and bureaucracy I am bored to tears. It is repetitive and not meaningful to me. I've taken on additional challenges and taken leadership on other issues BUT the problem is that this just adds to my overall workload. The meaningful work just means I've delayed the required work. There is also ZERO chance for upward mobility in this position. I have one direct report. It truly is a dead end. I would get 3% raises for the next 15 years.

Job B: This is an upward move and I would be responsible for 25 direct reports and manage our office facility operations. I would work 230 days a year and make 105000. Yes, the daily rate is lower. I would still get a month off in the summer but not near as much flexibility. I would have late days and would have much more responsibility. I would be forced to think about work in my off hours. I would only take this job as an upward move towards Job C. The work of Job B is fulfilling but stressful and I would be doing minimal technical writing. 10x less writing.

Am I crazy for trying to escape Job A? I am compensated well for what I do in my field. I'm really struggling with giving up current flexibility for more money (eventually), more stress and increased job fulfillment. What is flexibility and time off worth to you?

snic

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Re: Job advice
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2023, 08:21:24 PM »
How old are the kids? If they're about to go to college, maybe taking job B is a no-brainer because they're suddenly going to get very busy (very likely also during the summer, with internships etc). If that's still years away, will job B give you the flexibility during the school year to spend your time on what the kids need (driving them to practice, attending PTA meetings, etc etc etc)?

SereneOne

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Re: Job advice
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2023, 08:28:07 PM »
How old are the kids? If they're about to go to college, maybe taking job B is a no-brainer because they're suddenly going to get very busy (very likely also during the summer, with internships etc). If that's still years away, will job B give you the flexibility during the school year to spend your time on what the kids need (driving them to practice, attending PTA meetings, etc etc etc)?

We're in the thick of it. :) Ages 7, 12, 14. Job B still gives some flexibility to help with day to day kid stuff. The main difference they'll see is later days (not crazy. 5pm instead of 3.30pm) and less summer time with dad.

nereo

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Re: Job advice
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2023, 04:51:26 AM »
First, you’ve presented this as a binary choice, Job A or Job B.  There are dozens of other opportunities out there on a wide spectrum of income and time.

Second, if we are to take your comments at face value, it’s clear to me you need to leave Job A almost immediately.  You call it “soul crushing” and “bored to tears”.  This is not a healthy work enviornment, and contrary to pop culture it is not what a career should be.

At face value, ‘Job B’ seems much better, even with th loss of (just half) of your summer. A slightly bump in annual pay, a substantial amount of time off and what appears to be a much better work enviornment. This isn’t just about making your 200 is workdays more enjoyable, but also your home live as well.  Soul-crushing, boring jobs bleed into your weekends and vacation time.  They create a “need to decompress” in ways that more satisfying jobs do not. Basically the “work life balance” we all strive for isn’t just about having more time for life outside of work, but its first and foremost about having all your workdays - which are the overwhelming majority of days each year - be relatively enjoyable. If most of your days suck, there can be no positive work life balance.

Finally, continue to seek our other possibilities, and challenge the notions that there are no other options.  Besides looking for Jobs C, D, E (etc), strongly advocate for changes in Job B which might make it even better. Perhaps you cannot get an entire-summer off, but could you negotiate for a three or four day week during the summers when your kids are home (even if it involves a corresponding pay reduction). Going from a two-day weekend to a three day weekend is a monumental shift.

Good luck

trollwithamustache

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Re: Job advice
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2023, 07:28:08 AM »
Job A is the devil you know. Job B is the devil you don't know. All jobs have downsides.

1. It likely really comes down to how much you value that summer time.

2. Can you elaborate on soul crushing? Does it really hang over you, darkening your very being? Or, is it boring as *^&t. And then when you are home you genuently enjoy time with the kids?  (ie, its like a bridge toll)?

3.  I'm not a huge fan of the quiet quitting thing, but there is soming to it. If Job A has no upward mobility, can you not take on extra? I mean, do your job, do the reports right, take decent care of your direct report because it's the right thing to do and be done.



SereneOne

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Re: Job advice
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2023, 09:16:13 AM »
First, you’ve presented this as a binary choice, Job A or Job B.  There are dozens of other opportunities out there on a wide spectrum of income and time.

Second, if we are to take your comments at face value, it’s clear to me you need to leave Job A almost immediately.  You call it “soul crushing” and “bored to tears”.  This is not a healthy work enviornment, and contrary to pop culture it is not what a career should be.

At face value, ‘Job B’ seems much better, even with th loss of (just half) of your summer. A slightly bump in annual pay, a substantial amount of time off and what appears to be a much better work enviornment. This isn’t just about making your 200 is workdays more enjoyable, but also your home live as well.  Soul-crushing, boring jobs bleed into your weekends and vacation time.  They create a “need to decompress” in ways that more satisfying jobs do not. Basically the “work life balance” we all strive for isn’t just about having more time for life outside of work, but its first and foremost about having all your workdays - which are the overwhelming majority of days each year - be relatively enjoyable. If most of your days suck, there can be no positive work life balance.

Finally, continue to seek our other possibilities, and challenge the notions that there are no other options.  Besides looking for Jobs C, D, E (etc), strongly advocate for changes in Job B which might make it even better. Perhaps you cannot get an entire-summer off, but could you negotiate for a three or four day week during the summers when your kids are home (even if it involves a corresponding pay reduction). Going from a two-day weekend to a three day weekend is a monumental shift.

Good luck

I appreciate the insight and thoughts. Thanks, that is helpful.

SereneOne

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Re: Job advice
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2023, 09:17:14 AM »
Job A is the devil you know. Job B is the devil you don't know. All jobs have downsides.

1. It likely really comes down to how much you value that summer time.

2. Can you elaborate on soul crushing? Does it really hang over you, darkening your very being? Or, is it boring as *^&t. And then when you are home you genuently enjoy time with the kids?  (ie, its like a bridge toll)?

3.  I'm not a huge fan of the quiet quitting thing, but there is soming to it. If Job A has no upward mobility, can you not take on extra? I mean, do your job, do the reports right, take decent care of your direct report because it's the right thing to do and be done.

Thanks for your thoughts. As far as number 2 it's boring as *7^t. It's exactly like a bridge toll. Something to get through.

nereo

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Re: Job advice
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2023, 09:20:36 AM »
Job A is the devil you know. Job B is the devil you don't know. All jobs have downsides.

1. It likely really comes down to how much you value that summer time.

2. Can you elaborate on soul crushing? Does it really hang over you, darkening your very being? Or, is it boring as *^&t. And then when you are home you genuently enjoy time with the kids?  (ie, its like a bridge toll)?

3.  I'm not a huge fan of the quiet quitting thing, but there is soming to it. If Job A has no upward mobility, can you not take on extra? I mean, do your job, do the reports right, take decent care of your direct report because it's the right thing to do and be done.

Thanks for your thoughts. As far as number 2 it's boring as *7^t. It's exactly like a bridge toll. Something to get through.

Personally, I would not spend 55% (200/365) of my days doing something I considered "boring as *7^t" - especially when there's an obvious, immediate alternative.

JGS1980

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Re: Job advice
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2023, 09:43:51 AM »
You should leave Job A regardless because, well, you hate it.

You should look around for a better Job B that has summer's off and won't keep you late because there are PLENTY of jobs out there right now.  Perhaps look for a better Job B during this summer as you enjoy those days off (while being paid for Job A, of course).

JGS

FIREfox

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Re: Job advice
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2023, 11:03:48 AM »
How old are the kids? If they're about to go to college, maybe taking job B is a no-brainer because they're suddenly going to get very busy (very likely also during the summer, with internships etc). If that's still years away, will job B give you the flexibility during the school year to spend your time on what the kids need (driving them to practice, attending PTA meetings, etc etc etc)?

We're in the thick of it. :) Ages 7, 12, 14. Job B still gives some flexibility to help with day to day kid stuff. The main difference they'll see is later days (not crazy. 5pm instead of 3.30pm) and less summer time with dad.

It's going to be a personal decision at the end of the day, but for me, the increased stress and time commitment of Job B doesn't seem worth $12K a year. Those kids are going to grow up quick and the afternoons home and summer time is going to be literally priceless. By the time you've finished high school, in a typical lifetime, 90+% of your time with your parents is over. So, vice versa, from a parent's point of view with the wisdom that comes with your age relative to your kids' ages, soak it on now.

If you're really hating your job, I guess take that into consideration. But if it's a matter of just not finding fulfillment in it, consider finding fulfillment elsewhere in your life rather than your work.

Villanelle

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Re: Job advice
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2023, 11:41:40 AM »
I can't tell if it is the writing you dislike, or just that you have to generate so many report in so little time and with other responsibilities.  If it is the latter, I'd step back from all those extra things you mention.  If there's no possibility or promotion or meaningful raises, why take on extra. "I'm finding I can no longer do XY supervision activity.  With one new report due every 2 days, I just don't have the bandwidth.  Unless you want me to prioritize that over getting the reports in on time, it's an extra responsibility outside my job requirements that I just can't continue."

It's hard to say since it's not clear what you hate about job A, but I might try making job A into something less stressful and soul-sucking and sticking with it. 

I'd likely also be looking for an entirely new job in the men time, since neither of these options is very good. 

Finances_With_Purpose

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Re: Job advice
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2023, 10:04:21 AM »
How old are the kids? If they're about to go to college, maybe taking job B is a no-brainer because they're suddenly going to get very busy (very likely also during the summer, with internships etc). If that's still years away, will job B give you the flexibility during the school year to spend your time on what the kids need (driving them to practice, attending PTA meetings, etc etc etc)?

We're in the thick of it. :) Ages 7, 12, 14. Job B still gives some flexibility to help with day to day kid stuff. The main difference they'll see is later days (not crazy. 5pm instead of 3.30pm) and less summer time with dad.

It's going to be a personal decision at the end of the day, but for me, the increased stress and time commitment of Job B doesn't seem worth $12K a year. Those kids are going to grow up quick and the afternoons home and summer time is going to be literally priceless. By the time you've finished high school, in a typical lifetime, 90+% of your time with your parents is over. So, vice versa, from a parent's point of view with the wisdom that comes with your age relative to your kids' ages, soak it on now.

If you're really hating your job, I guess take that into consideration. But if it's a matter of just not finding fulfillment in it, consider finding fulfillment elsewhere in your life rather than your work.

This.  No way I would go to Job B when you lose so much time and don't make MORE money.

Think of it this way: you're trading 30 days with your kids - priceless - for 30 more days at a crappy job FOR WORSE PAY.  You're going to be more stressed, more tired, and more upset, but yet you won't even make as much as you did per day at Job A.  That's a lose-lose proposition. 

You should value your marginal time much, much more than your current time.  In other words, you work right now, but how much would it take to get you to work at Job A an extra 30 days?  The answer should be: more than the rate that they pay me right now.  Because that would eat up your best time, and the last of your time, so they should pay you more/you should demand more.  You're going to feel that more. 

I do some side work, but I only do work that (1) I like, (2) is easy, (3) is super flexible, and (4) that pays a great marginal rate.  Life is too short to burn more of my good time for worse pay.  So I only take on things that reward me well and/or are fun.  I suggest that you do the same. 

Also, you don't sound that confident that Job B is going to land you Job C, or that Job C is going to be worth having.

Personally, I would strongly investigate Job C and/or any alternatives to Job A that aren't Job B to see what's out there.  Surely these aren't the only options.  If they are, I might just stick it out with Job A, or better yet, find another job that isn't as grinding as Job A but still gives you the same freedom/pay (or more freedom and more pay). 

You're right to want out of Job A, given what you said, but I wouldn't jump ship without a better plan, since it sounds like you've only found something that is likely to be far MORE frustrating, especially for a few grand/year.  (You could literally make that difference up - about 13k - with CC/bank bonuses/tradelines in your free time for far less stress, if you had cash on hand and were so inclined.  Easier, less stressful, and why not?) 

catccc

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Re: Job advice
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2023, 10:31:35 AM »
Job B.  If you still have 15 more years of work, Job A isn't going to cut it.  You are already miserable with it, how can you consider staying in it for 15 years?  Take Job B and the fulfillment and potential it brings, and see where it leads you.  I believe time with kids is about quality over quantity once you get to a certain quantity.  Your kids will likely do better with a happy parent in the time they see you, than an unhappy one they see more.

SunnyDays

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Re: Job advice
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2023, 04:33:50 PM »
I also had to write lots of reports for my job.  I eventually just came up with a few different formats that covered the various scenarios and plugged in the specific details needed for each reply.  It reduced the time spent on them by 80%.  Is it possible for you to do something like this?