Author Topic: Maui Job Offer  (Read 3586 times)

jwright

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Maui Job Offer
« on: January 08, 2020, 11:28:31 AM »
I searched the forums and the few posts about living in Maui or Hawaii are a few years old. 

Because I was annoyed with my current job, I applied through the generic Indeed.com portal to a position on the island of Maui in Hawaii.  Long story short since getting the phone call in early December, done a phone interview, and a site visit to their office on the mainland, I have been offered a position! 

I'm married, both 40yrs old, no kids, living in South Carolina.  My husband lived on Maui in his childhood for about 10 years and we have visited several times since we've been married (he also visited mulitple times as an adult prior to our marriage). 

In a perfect world, we'd FIRE to Maui and never work again but we aren't there yet. 

All the advice I've been given about living on Maui relates to the expense and HCOL.  This position is offering $145,000 base salary plus generous benefits, profit sharing and bonuses.  My husband is a lawyer who'd have to take the Hawaii bar exam, but I presume he could find a decent job on the island as well.  This leads me to believe we would not have cost of lviing concerns.  We currently earn about $190K combined.  I also receive distributions from partnerships as part of inherited property that I just count as a bonus.  (I also have a large inheritance that I'll need to navigate in a few years). We would keep our house here for the time being in case we flame out.

Are there any others who have moved to an island and/or across the country?  Besides increased cost of housing and food stuffs, what should we be looking out for?  What about non-monetary concerns?  Is there an "ex-pat" community on the island?  I'm scared to death but also fear that I would regret not taking the leap. 

Car Jack

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Re: Maui Job Offer
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2020, 11:59:35 AM »
This sounds like a tremendous opportunity!  I haven't lived on Maui, but honeymooned there.  One thing I have done is moved to another state and kept my house to move back to it.  If there was one thing I could go back and redo, it would be that decision.  I should have sold the house and upon returning (I was away at grad school on my company's dime, so knew I was coming back), I would have rented for a while and bought another house.

So my only advice here is to sell the house when you leave.  Aloha.

honeybbq

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Re: Maui Job Offer
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2020, 11:49:48 AM »
Sounds like step 1 in your FIRE plan! What a great opportunity!

I can't offer any specific advice about Hawaii/island living, but I'd jump at the chance in your situation with your desired end-game.

SunnyDays

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Re: Maui Job Offer
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2020, 08:13:09 PM »
Calling @englishteacheralex!  (Oahu though, not Maui.)

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: Maui Job Offer
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2020, 09:25:35 PM »
Sounds like a dream to me, go for it!

reeshau

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Re: Maui Job Offer
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2020, 10:18:49 PM »
To start out, this sounds like a great opportunity has fallen into your lap--the Universe is calling; don't let it go to voice mail!

Maui is definitely on my retirement radar; I have not stayed there for extended periods, but have visited and loved it.  Take these points from someone who moved 6 hours in the other direction to an island:

"Island time" is a real thing.  There are fewer options in a closed system, so when things go wrong, you just deal with it.  I think that eventually, with enough experience in these little setbacks, people come to the laid back approach to time / deadlines / activity level as a way to cope.

This one may not apply to Maui, but be prepared for less variety and stockouts at stores.  The supply chain is more complex, so nobody may have the Consumer Reports pick of a dishwasher.  And no 1-day delivery, either:  Amazon here tells you shipments may take 3-4 weeks, but they usually end up taking 2 weeks or less.  And this is with 10,000 Amazon employees in Ireland.  They are looking to set up their first warehouse on the Island by the end of the year (as a result of Brexit) so things may look more like the mainland soon.  Also, many 3rd-party sellers just won't ship here.

But other retailers have similar issues:  many more bare spaces on shelves.  It just happens

Last, for whatever it means to you, is the time shift in TV.  Of course local networks will be adjusted, but Monday Night Football won't be at night--it will be in the middle of the day.  If you like to watch sports, you will have a lot more recording needing to be done.

People have also warned us about the scope of things to do:  theater, concerts, etc.  Again, Maui is mid-sized, so while everyone loves it, they also fly to Oahu or LA for those types of things.

And one last tip, from relatives in Alaska:  "if it fits, it ships" is your friend.  While Priority Mail takes 2 weeks, rather than 2-3 days, It's usually the cheapest shipping option.

nereo

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Re: Maui Job Offer
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2020, 11:17:12 PM »
Are there any others who have moved to an island and/or across the country?  Besides increased cost of housing and food stuffs, what should we be looking out for?  What about non-monetary concerns?  Is there an "ex-pat" community on the island?  I'm scared to death but also fear that I would regret not taking the leap.

It's been a while (10 years!) but I moved to Hawai'i (Big Island) for a job and wound up leaving after a year for non-monetary reasons. My brother lived there for about a decade but has also left.

I'll start by saying this sounds like a great opportunity for you, and depending on your personalities it could work out great for you.

In short - the reason that I left was because I always felt like an outsider, and it was made plain to me that I could never be fully integrated into the local neighborhood.   I'm white and from the mainland, and Hawai'i is closer to Polynesian than American in many ways.  Having visited there I'm sure you've heard the terms local vs haole.  At best, comign from the mainland I might one day be a Kama'aina, but even my future children would not really be considered a local. 

This may or may not matter to you, and the extent of the feeling depends a lot on where you live and how tied to the local community you want to be.  Certainly there is a large population of mainlanders that you can blend in with, and many do so quite happily.  It;'s certainly easier on a more populated island like Maui. But I never really felt at home on the big island.

The other big drawback for me was the distance from my family and friends back on the mainland.  It's far.  If much of your family is on the east coast (as mine is) there's a 5 or 6 hour time difference depending ont he time of year.  Flights are costly both in terms of $ and time.  It's not easy to hop over to visit someone during a 3 day weekend, and if your family is not near a major international hub it can get even more complex. There was no making it home when my grandmother fell ill, for example.

finally - I wound up really missing the seasons. Sounds like a silly reason but it affected me more than I expected.  No summer, no winter - daylength in December is only an hour or so shorter than summer. Many consider this a feature and not a bug... but it wasn't for me.

Good luck with your decision.  My experiences miguht have been much different had I been on another island (e.g. Maui) and been offered a 6-digit salary, and been with a life-partner.

g'luck.

englishteacheralex

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Re: Maui Job Offer
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2020, 08:43:56 AM »
I've lived on Oahu since 2003. I moved here right after college. I'm from upstate NY originally.

Everything everybody already said--true. I'm still here but I consider myself to be the most random person on this island. After 17 years, my whole community is here. My entire career unfolded here. All of my closest friends are here. But yeah, I'll always be an outsider.

I love it here, but if I had it to do over again I'd never, ever, ever have moved here. I put close to zero thought into the move at the age of 23, tried desperately to move back in 2008 but couldn't find a job due to the recession, and then met my husband (who is also not from here) and wound up embracing it. We have no plans to ever move back to the mainland at this point. But...it took a long, long time for us to get to this place, emotionally. And we have made a lot of sacrifices that were only possible, I think, because we hadn't gotten used to the mainland as adults. The differences are quite stark. 

I'm in the middle of a busy season at work, so I'll try to remember to post more specifics later. I do have strong opinions. :) Good luck and aloha!

Tuskalusa

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Re: Maui Job Offer
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2020, 08:54:38 AM »
What a cool opportunity!  I hope you start a journal about it if you move.  (I sure would!)

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Re: Maui Job Offer
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2020, 09:08:32 AM »
Two additional thoughts (should you move there):

1) Give up a lot of the things common on the mainland and embrace what's available locally.  This is especially true of your diet.  Food that's shipped over is expensive and tends to be of poor quality, but there are many things grown on island which are tasty and cheap(er).  Instead of strawberries, bananas and apples, accept that your new everyday fruits will be papayas and guavas.  I still pine for the Rambutans I left behind...  The same is true for other aspects of life; much of what is common on the mainland is expensive on island - clinging to your mainland ways (as I partially did) will make it a lot harder

2) your world will shrink.  Friends on Oahu or the Big island will seem far away (needing an inter-island flight to get to) even though you can see the Big Island from Maui, and people on the mainland will seem as far away as continental Europe is now.  The time-zone difference is a serious hurdle - when I lived there I couldn't talk to people in the morning becuase they were all at work, and I couldn't talk to them when I got home because they were all asleep.  This meant my only opportunities for phone conversations happened during the weekends for just a few hours before lunch. Friends on the mainland are going to have weddings and outings and the like which you will have to decline most of the time.

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Re: Maui Job Offer
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2020, 11:28:59 AM »
I'm writing from the Big Island.

The move is a no brainer to me - absolutely do it.  The islands are magical.  You are never too far from a cool trail or beach or similar experience.  There are disadvantages and peculiarities, but then again that is the same everywhere. 

What will help you is getting into an "expat-light" mindset.  You will come into a place that has its own culture that pre-dates US mainland culture.  As such, you need to just roll with some of those differences instead of wistfully wishing that things were like they were "back at home."   It also takes a certain kind of mainlander to move to the islands, so even mainland culture can be peculiar.  Others have already mentioned that.

You already have a huge advantage in coming in with a job. That is a major stressor for a lot of people who move here and end up jobless or under-employed.  You will still need to adapt, given the cost of living - people call it the "paradise tax."  Again, the expat-lite mindset will help you.  Don't keep trying to convert island prices to mainland ones, but learn to trade with the local costs.  For instance, strawberries are  indeed expensive, but you can get 2 HUGE avocados for less than the price of one of those shrivelled over-ambitious grapes markets sell in the mainland pretending that they are avocados).

Each island has its own personality.  If you can visit Maui before you move, that would be ideal.  If not, consider getting a temporary place for a month or so in order to explore where you will want to live (even though I think you'll want to live as close to work as possible to avoid traffic).

Go for it!  You can always go back if you don't like it, but having the islands invite you like that is one of those once-in-a-lifetime opportunities.


englishteacheralex

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Re: Maui Job Offer
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2020, 12:07:10 PM »
Ok, I'm back.

Given that you guys seem to not really have monetary concerns, yeah, I'd focus on the social life issues.

Here are some questions:

1. How important is your extended family in your life?

The east coast is very far away. The time change makes it hard to even do phone calls. I haven't had a Thanksgiving with my family since 2005. I haven't had Christmas on the mainland since 2012. I haven't celebrated a family birthday since 2009. I've missed weddings, anniversary parties, an countless get-togethers.

Part of this is because of money, so if you have plenty of it, you might not have as extreme a sense of isolation as I have had. But part of it is because of the 14 hour flight required to get to the east coast.

2. Are you ok with being in the minority, racially?

White folks from the mainland sometimes say that this place is racist. Sort of? Sometimes? But mostly you just have to get used to being in the minority (depending on which community you settle in). Locals are generally some flavor of asian, and when they see you, it's not that they're prejudiced against you, exactly...they just kind of don't see you. You're sort of invisible. This is because statistically you are highly likely to be transient, and nobody feels like making good friends with someone who is just going to move away. Truth? I even find haoles kind of invisible at this point. My heart has been broken too many times by military friends and friends who turned out to be extended-stay-tourists.

My closest friends are ex-pats like me, but we joke that nobody can come into our group unless they have a mortgage, because we've been so sad at so many people moving away because the HCOL and the distance from family broke them.

3. So you have no plans to have children?

Having kids out here is a whole 'nother thing. Very complicated. But if this isn't an issue for you, hey, I'll skip it.

4. How much do you like the beach/ocean and hiking in the jungle?

Because that's what you can do. That's it. I learned to surf and would be very happy to do it every day of my life and never have another hobby. Other than that, there's not much. And traveling to a place with anything else is costly and time-intensive. There is no such thing as seasonal hobbies. And there's not a ton of culture, either. Popular music groups don't come to Hawaii very often. Any kind of performance-based entertainer is hard to find out here, unless you like the local stuff (we do, actually! But there's not much variety).

5. How important are seasons for you?

For many years I missed having a Pumpkin Spice Latte sound like a good idea. It's just really hot. Pretty much all the time. Winter is blustery and rainy sometimes (like now) but it will not feel like winter. Christmas will feel weird.

Part of what I love about being out here is not having to deal with winter anymore. I don't miss it at all at this point. But it took me a surprising number of years to feel that way.

6. How important is having a really awesome house with great furniture that looks like it's straight out of HGTV?

There are people who have neat-looking houses out here, but it's more expensive and more difficult to achieve than you'd think. It's hard to get bargains on furnishings. There's no IKEA. Shipping is ridiculous. Permits are expensive and there's a lot of red tape. Labor is scarce and expensive. So most houses have decor/design straight out of the 50's, 60's and 70's, because that's when the houses were built.

When we wanted to buy, we went with a condo built in 1972. It is ugly as sin, 900 square feet (we're a family of four) and cost us $364k. The HOA fees are $680/month. That is all pretty typical.

For me, since I'm a fan of simplicity and minimalism, this is actually a boon.  I have always felt that Hawaii is a place where appearances are not that important. Most people's disposable income is all going to their mortages, so there's little pressure to keep up with the Joneses, or at least that has been my experience. Even the wealthy folks wear $6 "slippers" from Longs and drive beater cars. We don't have access to all the big new trends on the mainland. None of those meal kits things are available here, for example. So many mainland consumer things have giant surcharges for shipping, so people just don't bother with them.

Are you ok with kind of feeling like you disappeared/dropped off the planet?

Because that's what all this stuff sort of adds up to, at least in my experience. Are you ok with (probably) most of the people at your job being polite to you but not feeling particularly interested in socializing with you? (FYI--potluck culture is huge here, even at work: bring a big, nice dish to every potluck and people will start looking at you a little more affably.)

It took me two years to stop crying after I moved here. I stayed because I didn't have anywhere else to go. I liked all the beautiful, fun outdoor stuff, but it was brutal for me, socially. Making friends was hard. I think if you were to move here as a married couple who were very content in your relationship, didn't need a huge social life, and were ok with being isolated from your family (that can actually be a plus for some people), AND were fine with consumer culture not really being a possibility, you'd be fine.

Nords

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Re: Maui Job Offer
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2020, 01:14:13 PM »
What Englishteacheralex says.

We've lived on Oahu for over 30 years (more than half my life).  I've lived at my current address for over 19 years, which is eight years longer than I've lived at our previous Oahu address and many years longer than anywhere else I've ever lived.  Our daughter was born & raised here.  There's a good chance that she (and her spouse) will return to Oahu in a couple years to raise their family here.

I'll never be kama'aina like my daughter, but I know that I'm slowly getting to be local because people around me will talk about haoles... and then they suddenly realize that technically I'm one too.  I'm not offended by the stereotype and we have a good laugh when they start to backtrack or even apologize. 

Are there any others who have moved to an island and/or across the country?
The Navy brought us to Oahu and we've moved 13 times over our careers, from Spain & Scotland through the Mainland to Hawaii.  We enjoy traveling and living local, and we've learned how to acculturate.  If you don't already know how to do that then it's possible for you to learn it too.

I'm scared to death but also fear that I would regret not taking the leap.
You have to try this, or you'll spend the rest of your life asking "What if...?"

What about non-monetary concerns? 
The most important point:  nobody cares about where you're from or how you did stuff there. 

You're embarking on an integration process that will take 3-4 years.  After two years people will trust that you're not going to give up and return to the Mainland.  By the third year you'll feel more accepted. 

By the fourth year you'll be writing long posts on Internet forums telling people how to acculturate.

The best way to integrate is to adapt your style to the local rhythms and practices.

For example, "Hawaii time" is more about casual tardiness because you're enjoying the day, not keeping to a strict schedule.  You're not watching your... watch... or your phone or the clock.  This behavior has no relation to indolence or to power games. 

15 minutes late could occasionally be an "island rush hour" traffic jam from a bad stop light or a lane-blocking accident, especially on two-lane roads.  But frequently it's because you stopped to chat with someone else, and the talk story went a little long.

"Talk story" is a common culture around the world and sadly lacking on the Mainland.  It's about taking time to check in with each other before the meeting starts.  It's getting to know your coworkers and neighbors by spending 15 minutes aimlessly chatting about the weather, the surf, and family.  Your part of talking story would be asking people questions about the local events, places, food, and surfing.  You can talk about your family, and even your Mainland family. 

But nobody (I mean nobody) cares about how you did things on the Mainland.  You could ask a question like "How would you do it here?" or "What was that word again?" or "What would happen if you tried <different technique>?"  If you lead with "Well, here's what I've seen before..." then the entire room politely shuts down.

I'd suggest subscribing to local newspapers (now, online, and before you move) and reading a book or two.  Try the links at the bottoms of these posts:
https://the-military-guide.com/good-reasons-not-to-live-in-hawaii/
https://the-military-guide.com/lifestyles-in-military-retirement-living-in-hawaii/
and search for your Maui equivalents.

You'll know you've really integrated when one of your friends suddenly asks you to backpack Haleakala Crater for four days and sleep in the cabins for three nights.  The cabins berth 12 and reservations fill up a year in advance, so if someone drops out of a group then you'll get a last-minute invitation.

Is there an "ex-pat" community on the island?
Yes, but consider the implications of what you're asking. 

Do you really want to hang out with people who identify as "expat" and not as a "new member of the community"?  Do you really want to perpetuate Mainland culture?  Do you really want to spend your time listening to complaints about Maui and why they're here instead of where they want to be?

... what should we be looking out for?   
It's possible that your new coworkers thought they were going to be promoted to the job you've just usurped.  They may think you got hired by fooling the bosses with your Mainland college and Mainland companies and parachuting in like some Mainland bigshot, and they're sure you have no idea what you're doing on Maui.  They know they'll outlast your attempt to stay for the long term and that you'll soon give up to go back to the Mainland. 

Hopefully you'll be able to make those coworkers feel like a more valuable member of the team by asking them what you can do for them, and by learning your job from their experience.  But that's probably common wherever you start a new job. 

Learn about the people and the community around you, and try to figure out how you'll fit in.

Here's another cautionary tale about not fitting in.

My parents-in-law lived on Oahu from 2001-07 to watch their only granddaughter grow up.  When she became a teenager, they realized that they had no other life here. 

They were born in the 1930s and they're retired.  They spent most of their careers with the Washington DC bureau of CBS News.  Living in that political bubble may have perpetuated an attitude.

My FIL turned out to be casually racist about "Japs" and "Orientals".  He kept saying "Back in the states..." instead of "Back on the Mainland" and "You people" instead of "us".  I explained this offensive vocabulary to him many times but he couldn't (or wouldn't) stop using it. 

He endlessly name-dropped his stories about reporting the news from 1964-95.  The issue is that Washington DC is the center of his universe and he assumed that Hawaii residents cared to hear about people who they only knew from Mainland TV-- or history books.  He made fun of Hawaii politics by comparing the local legislature to the news of Congress or NYC or other Mainland places he'd been.  He was a union steward at his CBS career, and he used to make many unflattering comparisons to unions on Oahu... without ever asking his acquaintances about their union experience.  He was constantly telling us (and his neighbors, and our friends) how politics are done on the Mainland and how we should do things differently here. 

I think he hit rock bottom one day when he was reminiscing about growing up during WWII and rationing... without realizing that the people with whom he was speaking had either been interned or had childhood friends in the camps.  It had never occurred to him that he was living in the middle of something he'd only read about.

My MIL would hear people using pidgin, and she'd assume that their vocabulary equated to lower intelligence.  She'd put on her loud, slow, American-tourist voice and eee-nun-seee-ate every word "in propah English".  After about two minutes of that, the other person would give up on her and try to escape.  This accounted for most of her interactions with bank tellers, gas station attendants, store clerks, and cashiers.  It was a mystery to her why she could never get help from anyone on the island for anything.  She complained perpetually for over six years.

When she heard her granddaughter speaking pidgin, I thought Grandma was going to burst a blood vessel.  My daughter is in her late 20s and still has to listen to that story.

My parents-in-law were self-isolating, but they eventually found some friends:  other Mainland snowbird retirees who lived on Oahu for part of the year and were deeply interested in the history of the Civil War.  My PILs spent more of their Hawaii days reminiscing about Gettysburg than learning about Oahu history.

There was no talk of learning how to surf or kayak or even swim in the ocean.  You were supposed to sit on the beach or walk along the shore.  They completely missed out on that phase of their granddaughter's life.

In 2001 when my parents-in-law moved to Oahu, they sold their Mainland home (4BR on a half-acre) and parked the money in short-term Treasuries... for over six years.  (That money had to be "absolutely safe.")  By 2007 when they moved back to the same Mainland ZIP code, they were priced out of the real-estate market and had to downsize to a 2BR condo.  With a mortgage. 
« Last Edit: January 11, 2020, 01:19:47 PM by Nords »

jwright

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Re: Maui Job Offer
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2020, 07:08:46 AM »
Wow - thank you for all of the thoughtful replies.  I had some computer issues and am just back on the forums today.

I negotiated a six month remote work situation where I would begin the job working from home and give myself more time to manage a move  But the expectation is that my husband and I would be full time Maui residents at the end of that period.

However, since then we are having some misgivings.  We feel guilty about leaving our aging parents (his mom especially as she lives alone with no other family in the area at age 75). My husband is a newish partner at his law firm so he would walk away from prime earning years to start over.  When I asked for a telework period, my potential boss asked if I was concerned about the job and job duties or adjusting to lifeon Maui and the truth is I think I (we) would thrive in both but the concern is what we are leaving behind. 

I'm still torn, but need to follow up tomorrow and leaning toward a full no.

Nords

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Re: Maui Job Offer
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2020, 10:53:47 AM »
However, since then we are having some misgivings.  We feel guilty about leaving our aging parents (his mom especially as she lives alone with no other family in the area at age 75).
[...]
When I asked for a telework period, my potential boss asked if I was concerned about the job and job duties or adjusting to life on Maui and the truth is I think I (we) would thrive in both but the concern is what we are leaving behind. 

I'm still torn, but need to follow up tomorrow and leaning toward a full no.
Eldercare is a very common issue here, and it's growing with our demographics.  Island employers are keenly aware that people with Mainland elders are even more likely to be in a career conflict with their caregiver obligations.

The primary reason that you're being offered the job is because the employer thinks you're more qualified (and maybe even more likely to succeed) than island residents.  That's their opinion, anyway.  Yet they know that you'll feel tempted to quit whenever your potential future caregiver stress can be best solved by moving back to the Mainland.

Speaking from personal experience (and the stories of dozens of my readers), I won't pretend that there's a caregiver solution.  Mainland elders are extremely unlikely to move to the islands for their care.  You'd feel perpetually stressed and unhappy about trying to organize (and monitor) Mainland care resources from thousands of miles away.  It can be done with the right team, but it's never easy and it's barely sustainable.

The employer knows that the only reasonable compromise would be for you to live on Maui as long as that works for your quality of life, and then for the employer to accept the "risk" of you moving back to the Mainland with a remote-work arrangement.  I don't think that's a problem, and the remote-work tools get better every year. 

If you really want the job (even if you're on Maui for just a few years before you're needed on the Mainland), then this is the part where the employer can demonstrate that they're really committed to hiring you.  This is your opportunity to really push the discussion and figure out whether you have the employer support out here in the first place, and if you're still on the fence then the discussion is worth having.