Author Topic: Credit Card was lost, somebody tried to charge $1k, Wells Fargo denied it...  (Read 8307 times)

SyZ

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Long story short: I'm an idiot, lost the card, somebody took it to a town 15 miles away and tried to charge $1,000 at T-Mobile, Wells Fargo blocked it, I called and advised when my last purchases were and that they can send a new card in 5-7 business days, I still have my ID, etc. Just the card lost, not my ID stolen. She said I'd just wait for the card and make sure my accounts like student loans are updated in case an automatic payment happens, etc.

Is it really that easy? Seems like it should be ... it was just the card and I have my ID in front of me, but this is awfully scary. And what happens if this person spent $10-$40 at 7 locations before this $1,000 charge where he had to provide ID? I just eat the loss as a character building expense?

I guess I'm thankful that the kinds of people who would use a lost credit card aren't that bright. Trying to buy a $1,000 phone at T-Mobile with a stolen card when it requires a credit and ID check ... really?

katsiki

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You're not on the hook for fraud.

Frankies Girl

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You're not liable for any money charged due to a card being lost or stolen as long as you reported it as soon as possible, so no even if they had managed to get lots of crap on your card, you'd be made whole as soon as you let them know you missed the card. They'll cancel the card, it will be declined from then on out and you'll just have to get any auto pays updated, and things go back to normal. It really is that simple. Just heartstoppingly scary when it happens the first time. ;)

SyZ

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On that note: I didn't technically report it lost. I rarely use the card, but went out to watch Game 6 last week at the local Casino. Probably lost it while jumping up and down and then because I would have thought I put it back in my small money clip, didn't notice it was gone as I haven't used a card since. So I got the call from WF and called back and 'reported 'it lost, I suppose

TheStachery

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you should see if you can enable spending alerts on your card and get text messages to report when charges made.  I didn't lose my card, but starting getting alerts about $5 here $7 there... Called the CC company and they fixed it right away.  They said someone made a copy of my card and was using it.  I stopped those criminals at about $15...

JLee

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Long story short: I'm an idiot, lost the card, somebody took it to a town 15 miles away and tried to charge $1,000 at T-Mobile, Wells Fargo blocked it, I called and advised when my last purchases were and that they can send a new card in 5-7 business days, I still have my ID, etc. Just the card lost, not my ID stolen. She said I'd just wait for the card and make sure my accounts like student loans are updated in case an automatic payment happens, etc.

Is it really that easy? Seems like it should be ... it was just the card and I have my ID in front of me, but this is awfully scary. And what happens if this person spent $10-$40 at 7 locations before this $1,000 charge where he had to provide ID? I just eat the loss as a character building expense?

I guess I'm thankful that the kinds of people who would use a lost credit card aren't that bright. Trying to buy a $1,000 phone at T-Mobile with a stolen card when it requires a credit and ID check ... really?

Yep.  In my experience, credit card companies are incredibly easy to work with regarding fraud. Chase's fraud detection has been superb.

Frankies Girl

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Same difference. If they notice something odd like you trying to buy $1000 worth of something you usually don't buy, or making purchases in Ohio one day and then Mexico an hour later... they'll flag it as suspicious and contact you. Don't forget that scammers can get your card info and use it without ever touching your actual card in your wallet too, so credit card companies do have algorithms that will flag that type of stuff and check in with you - so as long as you confirm "no, that wasn't me purchasing that stuff" they take that as fraud against your card and will still make you whole.

« Last Edit: June 28, 2016, 03:36:34 PM by Frankies Girl »

Cranky

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The flip side of this is that if you actually ARE planning to go out of town or purchase something big, you should call the cc company and let them set up an alert on this account that it's going to be used like that.

Otherwise, you might be standing in line at WalMart at the beach and have your card declined. Ask me how I know this! LOL

gardeningandgreen

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You're not liable for any money charged due to a card being lost or stolen as long as you reported it as soon as possible, so no even if they had managed to get lots of crap on your card, you'd be made whole as soon as you let them know you missed the card. They'll cancel the card, it will be declined from then on out and you'll just have to get any auto pays updated, and things go back to normal. It really is that simple. Just heartstoppingly scary when it happens the first time. ;)

It doesn't even have to be that quickly that you report it. If the charge has been less than 60 days from when your last statement came out everything will be returned to you.

Choices

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Agreed. I've had my physical card stolen once, but several other times I still had the card when charges were made. I never had a problem with the bank and they were always very nice.

Use this as a reminder to close unneeded cards if you don't have a bunch of debt and don't need the available credit to boost your credit score. Or close them anyway if you'd be tempted to run up more debt with the available credit. The more open accounts you have, the more risk of fraud you'll have too.

ketchup

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I've had good experiences with reporting this too.  It's happened twice to me in the past ~5 years.  Always been just a short phone call.

I also had one card that was declined at a hotel due to Discover detecting fraud where there was none.  They just didn't like that I had bought gas in Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Oklahoma, and Texas all on the same day (and the hotel was in Texas).

Inaya

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Consumer fraud prevention laws around credit cards are VERY strong. No major credit card company will hassle you because they don't want to be on the receiving end of a fraud lawsuit.

That said, the laws around bank accounts--and therefore debit cards--are infinitely weaker. If your debit card gets stolen, the bank will probably won't fight you on it because that's just good customer service. But they could also decide (legally) that the fraud was your fault and not give you back your money after your bank account was drained.

In other words, NEVER use your debit card for anything other than cash withdraws from an ATM INSIDE a bank branch.

Captain FIRE

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My bank has caught fraud several times.  I'm pretty impressed with their fraud detection software. 

First time I had my wallet stolen my first week of work (when I still had my ss card on me).  After a few charges (including a purchase at a liquor store which I would have thought should check IDs), someone of the wrong gender called my bank pretending to be me.  Oops.  Bank called me and I discovered my wallet missing.  All charges reversed/canceled.

Lost/stolen card a few years ago.  The bank called and all charges were reversed/canceled.

Last time I had the card, but the number was stolen.  It was used in 3 states, one of which was a legitimate charge.  All fraudulent charges were reversed/canceled.

My folks did have an issue once while traveling.  They filled up two cars and bought inside the gas station, and it was flagged for the three transaction.  They had to use another card until they could call the bank to get the hold lifted.  I always try to put a travel alert on my accounts.

Inaya

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My bank has caught fraud several times.  I'm pretty impressed with their fraud detection software. 

First time I had my wallet stolen my first week of work (when I still had my ss card on me).  After a few charges (including a purchase at a liquor store which I would have thought should check IDs), someone of the wrong gender called my bank pretending to be me.  Oops.  Bank called me and I discovered my wallet missing.  All charges reversed/canceled.

Lost/stolen card a few years ago.  The bank called and all charges were reversed/canceled.

Last time I had the card, but the number was stolen.  It was used in 3 states, one of which was a legitimate charge.  All fraudulent charges were reversed/canceled.

My folks did have an issue once while traveling.  They filled up two cars and bought inside the gas station, and it was flagged for the three transaction.  They had to use another card until they could call the bank to get the hold lifted.  I always try to put a travel alert on my accounts.
I'm glad it worked out that way for you--and in most cases banks will do that because it's good customer service. The point of my post was that credit cards are wrapped up in tons of laws around fraud. Banks, not so much.  They have the option to hold you liable for fraud. And that's not a risk I'm willing to take with my debit card as long as I have a perfectly good credit card around. Sure the odds are low that a bank would be a jerk about it. But I don't leave home without locking my doors just because the odds are low that somebody will walk in and take my stuff.

mskyle

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My bank has caught fraud several times.  I'm pretty impressed with their fraud detection software. 

First time I had my wallet stolen my first week of work (when I still had my ss card on me).  After a few charges (including a purchase at a liquor store which I would have thought should check IDs), someone of the wrong gender called my bank pretending to be me.  Oops.  Bank called me and I discovered my wallet missing.  All charges reversed/canceled.

Lost/stolen card a few years ago.  The bank called and all charges were reversed/canceled.

Last time I had the card, but the number was stolen.  It was used in 3 states, one of which was a legitimate charge.  All fraudulent charges were reversed/canceled.

My folks did have an issue once while traveling.  They filled up two cars and bought inside the gas station, and it was flagged for the three transaction.  They had to use another card until they could call the bank to get the hold lifted.  I always try to put a travel alert on my accounts.
I'm glad it worked out that way for you--and in most cases banks will do that because it's good customer service. The point of my post was that credit cards are wrapped up in tons of laws around fraud. Banks, not so much.  They have the option to hold you liable for fraud. And that's not a risk I'm willing to take with my debit card as long as I have a perfectly good credit card around. Sure the odds are low that a bank would be a jerk about it. But I don't leave home without locking my doors just because the odds are low that somebody will walk in and take my stuff.

Also, the problem with debit cards is that if ACTUAL MONEY is gone from your account, and you need to make a mortgage or rent or student loan payment, you are going to be in trouble. I had some fraud problems with a debit card once, a long time ago, and the bank fixed everything in the end, but in the meantime I had to scramble to get money from my savings account (at another bank) into my checking account before all my automated payments started getting withdrawn at the beginning of the month. I think I actually ended up withdrawing cash from a physical branch of the savings account bank and depositing it in person at the checking account bank. This is why I hate debit cards that work without a PIN! But it's harder and harder to get a bank to give you one.

If it had been my credit card that had been stolen it would have been much less of an issue. 

Captain FIRE

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Not sure why there was a leap by two posters that I had debit cards.  It was credit cards for me in the above scenarios.  I hadn't specified bc the post was initially about credit cards so I didn't think of it as being necessary.

Inaya

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Not sure why there was a leap by two posters that I had debit cards.  It was credit cards for me in the above scenarios.  I hadn't specified bc the post was initially about credit cards so I didn't think of it as being necessary.
You kept saying bank instead of credit card company.  Bank=debit card in most people's minds. Likely because credit card issuers aren't banks (except AmEx and Discover).

Also your response landed under my response about not using debit  cards. So it looked like a response to that.

Inaya

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I also had one card that was declined at a hotel due to Discover detecting fraud where there was none.  They just didn't like that I had bought gas in Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Oklahoma, and Texas all on the same day (and the hotel was in Texas).


I'd rather a false positive every now and again than a false negative ever. I think my BofA Visa triggered fraud at a 3 a.m. gas station once, but I think that's the only false positive I've ever had. (Other than the periodic instances of, "Here's a new card out of the blue because your old one might have been involved in a breach but we can't tell you the details.")

ketchup

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I also had one card that was declined at a hotel due to Discover detecting fraud where there was none.  They just didn't like that I had bought gas in Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Oklahoma, and Texas all on the same day (and the hotel was in Texas).


I'd rather a false positive every now and again than a false negative ever. I think my BofA Visa triggered fraud at a 3 a.m. gas station once, but I think that's the only false positive I've ever had. (Other than the periodic instances of, "Here's a new card out of the blue because your old one might have been involved in a breach but we can't tell you the details.")
Yeah, I can't blame them too hard for that one.  It was an odd series of transactions geographically speaking.

johnny847

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Not sure why there was a leap by two posters that I had debit cards.  It was credit cards for me in the above scenarios.  I hadn't specified bc the post was initially about credit cards so I didn't think of it as being necessary.
You kept saying bank instead of credit card company.  Bank=debit card in most people's minds. Likely because credit card issuers aren't banks (except AmEx and Discover).

Also your response landed under my response about not using debit  cards. So it looked like a response to that.

I have yet to see any credit card issuer that doesn't also provide banking services.

ETA: I take that back. Comenity Bank administers a bunch of retail store cards (134 of them, according to DoC). Despite calling themselves a bank, they don't seem to offer deposit accounts. (Perhaps in the financial industry any company that offers cc's is by law a bank?)

And to preempt some incorrect counterexamples:
https://personalsavings.americanexpress.com/home.html
https://www.discover.com/online-banking/checking/?ICMPGN=PUB_HDR_BANK_CHECKING
« Last Edit: June 22, 2016, 01:20:50 PM by johnny847 »

Inaya

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Not sure why there was a leap by two posters that I had debit cards.  It was credit cards for me in the above scenarios.  I hadn't specified bc the post was initially about credit cards so I didn't think of it as being necessary.
You kept saying bank instead of credit card company.  Bank=debit card in most people's minds. Likely because credit card issuers aren't banks (except AmEx and Discover).

Also your response landed under my response about not using debit  cards. So it looked like a response to that.

I have yet to see any credit card issuer that doesn't also provide banking services.

ETA: I take that back. Comenity Bank administers a bunch of retail store cards (134 of them, according to DoC). Despite calling themselves a bank, they don't seem to offer deposit accounts. (Perhaps in the financial industry any company that offers cc's is by law a bank?)

And to preempt some incorrect counterexamples:
https://personalsavings.americanexpress.com/home.html
https://www.discover.com/online-banking/checking/?ICMPGN=PUB_HDR_BANK_CHECKING
I apologize, but I am a little confused by your response. Are you saying that credit card issuers are banks, or are not banks?

The vast majority of credit card issuers are backed by somebody else's bank. And the vast majority of banks issue somebody else's credit card.

For example, Bank of America's Cash Rewards card is issued by Visa. It's a Visa card that is not backed by Visa--the backing bank is BofA.

Conversely, Discover cards are backed by Discover bank. And AmEx is backed by their own bank (I don't know it's name off the top of my head because I've never personally used their banking services).

Credit card transactions are stupidly complicated. Most transactions have at least 4 parties involved: merchant (where you swipe), payment network (whose computer network the transaction is carried over), issuer (Visa/MC etc.), backing bank (where the money actually comes from and who gets screwed if you default). Discover and AmEx are their own issuers, banks, and networks, but again, they're the rare exceptions.

Most charge cards (aka store cards) run on a different set of rails than credit card transactions unless it's an issuer-branded (e.g., Visa/MasterCard) card. Target's RedCard (charge card) runs on a completely different set of transaction protocols than Costco's MasterCard (credit card).
« Last Edit: June 22, 2016, 02:20:53 PM by Inaya »

johnny847

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Not sure why there was a leap by two posters that I had debit cards.  It was credit cards for me in the above scenarios.  I hadn't specified bc the post was initially about credit cards so I didn't think of it as being necessary.
You kept saying bank instead of credit card company.  Bank=debit card in most people's minds. Likely because credit card issuers aren't banks (except AmEx and Discover).

Also your response landed under my response about not using debit  cards. So it looked like a response to that.

I have yet to see any credit card issuer that doesn't also provide banking services.

ETA: I take that back. Comenity Bank administers a bunch of retail store cards (134 of them, according to DoC). Despite calling themselves a bank, they don't seem to offer deposit accounts. (Perhaps in the financial industry any company that offers cc's is by law a bank?)

And to preempt some incorrect counterexamples:
https://personalsavings.americanexpress.com/home.html
https://www.discover.com/online-banking/checking/?ICMPGN=PUB_HDR_BANK_CHECKING
I apologize, but I am a little confused by your response. Are you saying that credit card issuers are banks, or are not banks?

The vast majority of credit card issuers are backed by somebody else's bank. And the vast majority of banks issue somebody else's credit card.

For example, Bank of America's Cash Rewards card is issued by Visa. It's a Visa card that is not backed by Visa--the backing bank is BofA.

Conversely, Discover cards are backed by Discover bank. And AmEx is backed by their own bank (I don't know it's name off the top of my head because I've never personally used their banking services).

Credit card transactions are stupidly complicated. Most transactions have at least 4 parties involved: merchant (where you swipe), payment network (whose computer network the transaction is carried over), issuer (Visa/MC etc.), backing bank (where the money actually comes from and who gets screwed if you default). Discover and AmEx are their own issuers, banks, and networks, but again, they're the rare exceptions.

Charge cards (aka store cards) run on a different set of rails than credit card transactions unless it's an issuer-branded (e.g., Visa/MasterCard) card. Target's RedCard (charge card) runs on a completely different set of transaction protocols than Costco's MasterCard (credit card).

Initially I said that I'd never seen a credit card issuer that wasn't a bank.

Then I took that back by saying Comenity Bank administers a bunch of credit cards, but they don't offer deposit accounts. However, they still refer to themselves as a bank, which led me to speculate that even a financial institution that doesn't offer deposit accounts might still legally be a bank if it administers credit cards.

No, Bank of America's Cash Rewards card isn't issued by Visa. Nor is it backed by BofA. It's backed by FIA Card services, which is a subsidiary of BofA. http://newsroom.bankofamerica.com/press-release/corporate-and-financial-news/bank-america-amends-results-fia-card-services-na-subsidia

Target's RedCard is not a charge card. They have two flavors, a debit card linked to a checking account of your choice, or the credit card version. It really is a credit card, allowing you to carry a balance for high interest rates. https://redcard.target.com/ic/content/rc_icw_rates_and_fees

A charge card is a card that requires payment in full every month, with no preset spending limit. The Target RedCard is NOT such a card. An Amex Premier Rewards Gold or Amex Platinum are examples of charge cards.
http://www.bankrate.com/finance/credit-cards/is-a-charge-card-same-as-a-credit-card.aspx



I think we're not on the same page here because you're referring to the payment network (ie Visa, MC, Discover, or Amex) as the issuer. I'm saying the bank that administers the card is the issuer. Visa and Mastercard do not issue any credit cards. They're merely payment networks.

Captain FIRE

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Not sure why there was a leap by two posters that I had debit cards.  It was credit cards for me in the above scenarios.  I hadn't specified bc the post was initially about credit cards so I didn't think of it as being necessary.
You kept saying bank instead of credit card company.  Bank=debit card in most people's minds. Likely because credit card issuers aren't banks (except AmEx and Discover).

Also your response landed under my response about not using debit  cards. So it looked like a response to that.

I have yet to see any credit card issuer that doesn't also provide banking services.

ETA: I take that back. Comenity Bank administers a bunch of retail store cards (134 of them, according to DoC). Despite calling themselves a bank, they don't seem to offer deposit accounts. (Perhaps in the financial industry any company that offers cc's is by law a bank?)

And to preempt some incorrect counterexamples:
https://personalsavings.americanexpress.com/home.html
https://www.discover.com/online-banking/checking/?ICMPGN=PUB_HDR_BANK_CHECKING
I apologize, but I am a little confused by your response. Are you saying that credit card issuers are banks, or are not banks?

The vast majority of credit card issuers are backed by somebody else's bank. And the vast majority of banks issue somebody else's credit card.

For example, Bank of America's Cash Rewards card is issued by Visa. It's a Visa card that is not backed by Visa--the backing bank is BofA.

Conversely, Discover cards are backed by Discover bank. And AmEx is backed by their own bank (I don't know it's name off the top of my head because I've never personally used their banking services).

Credit card transactions are stupidly complicated. Most transactions have at least 4 parties involved: merchant (where you swipe), payment network (whose computer network the transaction is carried over), issuer (Visa/MC etc.), backing bank (where the money actually comes from and who gets screwed if you default). Discover and AmEx are their own issuers, banks, and networks, but again, they're the rare exceptions.

Most charge cards (aka store cards) run on a different set of rails than credit card transactions unless it's an issuer-branded (e.g., Visa/MasterCard) card. Target's RedCard (charge card) runs on a completely different set of transaction protocols than Costco's MasterCard (credit card).

I have USAA bank & they gave me a credit card, which, while it has a MasterCard/Visa label on it, I reach USAA if I call the number on the card, I get statements from USAA, and I see the charges when I sign into my USAA account.  (I also have a debit card from them too, but use it rarely.)  Anyways, not a big deal, but I think of it as how Inaya describes it.

johnny847

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I have USAA bank & they gave me a credit card, which, while it has a MasterCard/Visa label on it, I reach USAA if I call the number on the card, I get statements from USAA, and I see the charges when I sign into my USAA account.  (I also have a debit card from them too, but use it rarely.)  Anyways, not a big deal, but I think of it as how Inaya describes it.

I think you're agreeing with me, not Inaya?

Credit card transactions are stupidly complicated. Most transactions have at least 4 parties involved: merchant (where you swipe), payment network (whose computer network the transaction is carried over), issuer (Visa/MC etc.), backing bank (where the money actually comes from and who gets screwed if you default). Discover and AmEx are their own issuers, banks, and networks, but again, they're the rare exceptions.

No, Bank of America's Cash Rewards card isn't issued by Visa. Nor is it backed by BofA. It's backed by FIA Card services, which is a subsidiary of BofA. http://newsroom.bankofamerica.com/press-release/corporate-and-financial-news/bank-america-amends-results-fia-card-services-na-subsidia

I think we're not on the same page here because you're referring to the payment network (ie Visa, MC, Discover, or Amex) as the issuer. I'm saying the bank that administers the card is the issuer. Visa and Mastercard do not issue any credit cards. They're merely payment networks.

So I'm saying for your example Captain FIRE that USAA is the issuer, and Visa is the payment network.

If I'm understanding Inaya correctly, for your example USAA is the backing bank and Visa is the issuer.

Inaya

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Sorry, I had a huge brain fart yesterday. Issuer is overused jargon in my company so I got it twisted up. Instead of issuer, pretend I used "payment brand" instead. So Visa is the payment brand who is backed by a bank.

Anyway the point is, Captain FIRE said "bank" which is why I (and probably others) assumed debit card. And you should never use your debit card except to get cash out of an ATM inside a bank branch.

brokemom

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I second signing up for alerts.  I got one telling me that I bought $10 at zappos.  I did not.  Turns out someone hacked into my zappos account and tested out the expired card they had on file with a $10 electronic gift card.  Called Amex - they cancelled the card, I cancelled the zappos account, but I might easily have missed the $10 charge in a statement- but not when I got a "card not present" alert from Amex out of the blue.

katsiki

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I second signing up for alerts.  I got one telling me that I bought $10 at zappos.  I did not.  Turns out someone hacked into my zappos account and tested out the expired card they had on file with a $10 electronic gift card.  Called Amex - they cancelled the card, I cancelled the zappos account, but I might easily have missed the $10 charge in a statement- but not when I got a "card not present" alert from Amex out of the blue.

This is a great point on alerts.  I have started looking at which cards offer which alerts.  I am probably going to cancel a few with poor alerts and minimal utility.