Author Topic: Updated: Aussie DINKS with a looming redundancy  (Read 5464 times)

mustachepungoeshere

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Updated: Aussie DINKS with a looming redundancy
« on: December 07, 2015, 03:41:38 PM »
I've been posting here since January but have yet to put my budget on the line.

Last week my husband was made redundant after eight years with his company. He has held several roles with them, and three years ago worked his way into his dream job.

Income
Me: $3340/month take home
Him: $4090/month take home (only guaranteed till December 31)

Budget
$1600 rent~
$500 groceries/food/booze
$290 health insurance
$140 phones#
$115 union fees*
$87 car insurance
$85 bike insurance^         
$80 train/fuel/tolls
$60 internet#
$50 power         
$50 contents insurance
$45 sponsor child
$15 Netflix

#Phones and internet: Essential for work. Tax deductible.

~We've been in our apartment 4.5 years and our rent has not increased during that time, so equivalent apartments are now $2200-$2400/month.

*Union fees: We are in the same industry and are both members. We had discussed cancelling our membership but we have both relied on their advice or intervention with our employers.

^Bike insurance: Will drop to $58 in February.

Debt
$3500 credit card#
$7950 HECS (his)^
$13,550 HECS (mine)^

#Credit card: We have been furiously paying this off, and were on track to have it paid off by the end of the month. We put a hold on making extra payments in favour of saving extra cash until the job situation is resolved.

^HECS: As of December 31 the Australian government will no longer pay a 5 per cent bonus on voluntary repayments. We have the same degree, my husband's debt is lower because his income is higher and he passed the repayment threshold first.

Savings/assets
$1000 emergency fund (while we paid off debt)
$41,000 super (his)
$36,000 super (mine)

Redundancy
As it was explained to my husband, he and his colleagues were to finish working for their company on December 31, and start on January 1 doing the same job for a new company for the same money. This would be on a contractor basis for three months, followed by a full-time position but they are yet to receive a formal offer of employment. My husband thinks it is more likely that they will be kept on as contractors, to which he is amenable, as long as our finances are stable.

It is possible that, in four months' time, he will be doing the same job for the same money.

His redundancy payout is just over $69,000 net.

As shown in the budget above, we can live on my salary.

The big question is: what do we do next?

We live in Sydney, where everyone is obsessed with real estate as an "investment", but I know from my time on here that there are better investment options, and I want to keep the money accessible until the work situation is resolved.

Our rough plan
1. Pay off credit card
2. Bank payout in "high interest" (2.85 per cent) savings account until the end of March, when there should be some clarity about his employment
3. Keep a larger emergency fund on hand ($15k?)
4. Invest the remainder of the payout

As I said above, this is his dream job. Some of the guys he works with are scared witless about the layoffs because of their precarious financial situations. The hardest part for us is the loss of this job he has worked towards since he was 16. Financially, we know we are going to be ok. (And I am so grateful that we have spent the last couple of years paying off debt, working our budget, and having conversation after conversation about our financial goals. There has been no talk of shopping sprees, cars or trips.)

Negotiations
The details of his new employment contract - if there will be one - are yet to be confirmed, so I would also welcome any advice on how he should negotiate that.

As I said, they keep saying they want hire them all but that they can't yet make a formal job offer.

The new company said that, while contractors, my husband and his team would be paid their current pre-tax salary plus super. (This means they are forgoing leave entitlements, which is currently 6.5 weeks' annual leave plus sick leave, parental leave, etc).

When my husband asked about leave entitlements, new contracts/salaries, guaranteed CPI increases, etc, he was told they should view this as a start-up (i.e. stop asking for things). That makes me uncomfortable. I understand some people would be happy to take on that level of risk, but these guys didn't apply for a job at a start-up; they went to work one day and were told their jobs no longer existed at their old company.

My husband pays $5/week to use the gym at his current company, and there is a cafe on site. The new company doesn't have offices yet. (The team was originally told they would have to work from home for the three-month contract period. They have since been told they can remain in their current office for that duration.)

The new company is not keen to invest in necessary equipment for staff - who currently use equipment, vital for the job, provided by the old company. (Also makes me uncomfortable.)

There has been no clear agreement on reimbursement for work-related expenses. (Uncomfortable.) Currently they have company credit cards; my husband said one idea is for them to invoice for expenses when they invoice for contract work, with no discussion on what happens after that if this turns full-time.

They did say they would be willing to offer the team shares in the company as part of their salary package. (The team is intrigued by this, but I don't know enough about the company to know if this is worthwhile.)

Other
We are 29, no kids, still deciding if/when we want them.

We have a nine year-old car and my husband has a motorbike which he rides mainly on weekends.

Our transport expenses are artificially low because of his job (cars and fuel provided). A change of employment could see that line item go up.

Apologies for the wall of text.

Edited to note: $69,000 redundancy figure is net.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2016, 05:36:11 AM by mustachepungoeshere »

HappierAtHome

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Re: Aussie DINKS with a looming redundancy - review our budget and next steps
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2015, 04:57:13 PM »
Does his job exist elsewhere - as in, can he do a similar role for another organisation, or is it unique?

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Aussie DINKS with a looming redundancy - review our budget and next steps
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2015, 05:02:26 PM »
Does his job exist elsewhere - as in, can he do a similar role for another organisation, or is it unique?

It is a niche position with maybe 20 people in Australia in similar roles.

HappierAtHome

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Re: Aussie DINKS with a looming redundancy - review our budget and next steps
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2015, 05:32:02 PM »
Does his job exist elsewhere - as in, can he do a similar role for another organisation, or is it unique?

It is a niche position with maybe 20 people in Australia in similar roles.

Damn, so there goes the obvious answer of "find the same job in another organisation".

(I'm in a similar kind of position, and I love it, so I sympathise).

The conditions for the prospective "new" role sound pretty crap, but it sounds like attempting to negotiate isn't likely to yield success. Is there anything else he'd like to do - another passion he could explore while enjoying his few months of unemployment before the new role would start?

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Aussie DINKS with a looming redundancy - review our budget and next steps
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2015, 05:38:25 PM »
Does his job exist elsewhere - as in, can he do a similar role for another organisation, or is it unique?

It is a niche position with maybe 20 people in Australia in similar roles.

Damn, so there goes the obvious answer of "find the same job in another organisation".

(I'm in a similar kind of position, and I love it, so I sympathise).

The conditions for the prospective "new" role sound pretty crap, but it sounds like attempting to negotiate isn't likely to yield success. Is there anything else he'd like to do - another passion he could explore while enjoying his few months of unemployment before the new role would start?

It looks like the three months of contract work for the new company is a go, so there may not be a break in employment.

In terms of long-term employment, about a month before all this happened he mentioned wanted to pursue the necessary graduate studies (probably just a graduate certificate) in order to find employment in a related role. He meant, find employment in a related field in 10 years when we might have kids and the travel becomes too much.

I researched the relevant graduate certificate and we could cash-flow it for $12,000 for a year of online/distance study. So if he does have a break in employment, he could get a start on that.

deborah

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Re: Aussie DINKS with a looming redundancy - review our budget and next steps
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2015, 11:16:44 PM »
What does the union have to say about the >20% pay cut (leave + sick leave adds up to that, not to mention other parts of being employed, like being paid for public holidays) they are having as "contractors"? The new company sounds like it isn't organised, and is trying to cut everything back to the bones. Just check after every pay that the superannuation has been lodged with your superannuation provider. There are too many companies out there who go under owing their employees a lot of super. However, things are normally quite chaotic when outsourcing occurs, and this doesn't sound unusual (although I have never heard of people being paid less as contractors in this scenario).

For three months extra work though, it is probably not worth rocking the boat, but it suggests that the new management team won't be very focused on having a happy workforce, so I think your husband should explore other options.

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Aussie DINKS with a looming redundancy - review our budget and next steps
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2015, 11:27:25 PM »
What does the union have to say about the >20% pay cut (leave + sick leave adds up to that, not to mention other parts of being employed, like being paid for public holidays) they are having as "contractors"? The new company sounds like it isn't organised, and is trying to cut everything back to the bones. Just check after every pay that the superannuation has been lodged with your superannuation provider. There are too many companies out there who go under owing their employees a lot of super. However, things are normally quite chaotic when outsourcing occurs, and this doesn't sound unusual (although I have never heard of people being paid less as contractors in this scenario).

For three months extra work though, it is probably not worth rocking the boat, but it suggests that the new management team won't be very focused on having a happy workforce, so I think your husband should explore other options.

Thank you for your feedback.

The union can't respond until the contract agreement is on paper (we're expecting that in the next week). The information we have so far is from meetings.

The team currently foregoes public holidays in favour of 6.5 weeks' annual leave.

My husband's boss - who has also been made redundant but will remain boss for the contract period - has requested 10 per cent on top of current salary for the team to offset those entitlements, but you think 20 per cent is more appropriate?

deborah

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Re: Aussie DINKS with a looming redundancy - review our budget and next steps
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2015, 11:35:58 PM »
There are 52 weeks in a year. Four weeks sick pay plus 6.5 weeks leave is 10.5 weeks - slightly more than 1/5th of 52. Without looking at any other entitlements, that is 20%

marty998

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Re: Aussie DINKS with a looming redundancy - review our budget and next steps
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2015, 12:04:44 AM »
What employer is generous enough to allow 4 weeks sick pay?

If a staff member tried to take that much sick leave I'd be on the phone to HR about them pretty quickly...

I get that the contractor rate should be 20% higher... but that is to compensate for annual leave, superannuation and possibly the provision of your own workers comp premiums.

Sick leave shouldn't come into it imho.

marty998

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Re: Aussie DINKS with a looming redundancy - review our budget and next steps
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2015, 12:12:41 AM »
With regards to the budget - your contents insurance is very high and your health premiums are quite high too, unless you are covered for obstetrics.

If you are renting, you wouldn't even need to cover things like carpet, stove/oven/appliances, fixtures etc as the landlord insurance covers it.

My contents insurance for my 2 bed apartment is $285 ($1000 excess and cover for up to $43,000 value of contents) with AAMI.

You also appear to have no budget in there for clothing/shoes. I'm a guy who is happy wearing nothing and even I have to spend $300-400 a year on shoes and clothes.

Using me as a fair absolute expected minimum :)  I would presume this runs to well over $1000 for the both of you.

deborah

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Re: Aussie DINKS with a looming redundancy - review our budget and next steps
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2015, 12:26:02 AM »
Sorry, I have been retired too long - it's two weeks rather than four for sick leave, as a standard. However, it depends upon what your workplace had in place. OP did say that her husband would be getting super (and his would be one of the types of contracts where it would be legislatively compulsory).

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Aussie DINKS with a looming redundancy - review our budget and next steps
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2015, 12:40:00 AM »
With regards to the budget - your contents insurance is very high and your health premiums are quite high too, unless you are covered for obstetrics.

If you are renting, you wouldn't even need to cover things like carpet, stove/oven/appliances, fixtures etc as the landlord insurance covers it.

My contents insurance for my 2 bed apartment is $285 ($1000 excess and cover for up to $43,000 value of contents) with AAMI.

You also appear to have no budget in there for clothing/shoes. I'm a guy who is happy wearing nothing and even I have to spend $300-400 a year on shoes and clothes.

Using me as a fair absolute expected minimum :)  I would presume this runs to well over $1000 for the both of you.

Thanks Marty, it's good to have another Sydney perspective.

Yes, we are covered for obstetrics (a just-in-case policy at this stage).

Insurance is a weak point for me. It took me a while to see it as something we could cut; I used to think it was just the grown-up thing to do.

We are renting (two-bedroom apartment, not too far from the Shire ;) ).

Contents was previously $80/month, so I've cut it down some. That also covers portable valuable insurance on a camera kit (tax deductible for work), but I'm sure I can cut it some more. $285/year would save us a small fortune.

I neglected to add: $440 annual travel insurance policy on my husband (it also covers me, but it's predominantly for his work, and is tax deductible). He travels a lot internationally, and a medical emergency in certain places would bankrupt us.

I've only included set expenses for the time being, as everything else is on hold until the job situation is resolved. Clothes and shoes would be no more than $1000/year. I buy pre-loved corporate gear on eBay, and my husband wears jeans and t-shirts to work, with one suit for the handful of work functions that demand it.

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Re: Aussie DINKS with a looming redundancy - review our budget and next steps
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2015, 12:47:49 AM »
I'm sorry this is happening to your husband.

Regarding union fees, it might be possible to phone and ask for a temporary discount given the current financial uncertainty (at least for your husband)? A friend of mine recently did this. He was still a member but paid a discounted rate for 6 months.

And this is possibly stating the obvious, but if things happen to get financially tight for whatever reason (ie you can't live off your income), I would suggest reducing the booze from your budget and temporarily reducing your charity donations.

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Aussie DINKS with a looming redundancy - review our budget and next steps
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2015, 12:52:28 AM »
I'm sorry this is happening to your husband.

Regarding union fees, it might be possible to phone and ask for a temporary discount given the current financial uncertainty (at least for your husband)? A friend of mine recently did this. He was still a member but paid a discounted rate for 6 months.

And this is possibly stating the obvious, but if things happen to get financially tight for whatever reason (ie you can't live off your income), I would suggest reducing the booze from your budget and temporarily reducing your charity donations.

That's a great idea, thank you. They discounted his fees a couple of years ago, offered him 50 per cent off because he was the youngest member of the union at his previous office (same company) and they wanted him to gently encourage his younger colleagues to join. So I'm sure they would be flexible.

And yes, those extras would be the first to go (and I could get the grocery budget down to bare bones if I had to).

Thank you for your input.

alsoknownasDean

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Re: Aussie DINKS with a looming redundancy - review our budget and next steps
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2015, 04:07:55 AM »
My husband's boss - who has also been made redundant but will remain boss for the contract period - has requested 10 per cent on top of current salary for the team to offset those entitlements, but you think 20 per cent is more appropriate?

Casual loading (in lieu of annual leave, sick leave, long service leave, etc) is typically 25% from my experience. At least that's what I've seen as a loading rate in enterprise agreements :)

Actually I reckon you're both doing pretty well. Take into account that the tax rules for redundancy payments are very different (ie: chances are there'll be a fair bit less tax than marginal rates), you'll have a fairly big redundancy payment to use as a buffer.

Don't bother paying down HECS faster, at least while it's still indexed at CPI. Get rid of the credit card debt though :)

The other thing is, what's the potential for you to earn more in your present role or in another role? $3340 a month net would be what, high 40's, low 50's a year? Is this normal for your field? Are you full time or part time?

Longer term, are you open to moving away from Sydney? Maybe your money would go further in a city with a lower cost of housing, especially if you have kids and want something larger. Two $50-70K jobs paying off an $800K Sydney mortgage doesn't sound all that fun.

marty998

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Re: Aussie DINKS with a looming redundancy - review our budget and next steps
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2015, 04:51:35 AM »
My husband's boss - who has also been made redundant but will remain boss for the contract period - has requested 10 per cent on top of current salary for the team to offset those entitlements, but you think 20 per cent is more appropriate?

Casual loading (in lieu of annual leave, sick leave, long service leave, etc) is typically 25% from my experience. At least that's what I've seen as a loading rate in enterprise agreements :)

Actually I reckon you're both doing pretty well. Take into account that the tax rules for redundancy payments are very different (ie: chances are there'll be a fair bit less tax than marginal rates), you'll have a fairly big redundancy payment to use as a buffer.

Don't bother paying down HECS faster, at least while it's still indexed at CPI. Get rid of the credit card debt though :)

The other thing is, what's the potential for you to earn more in your present role or in another role? $3340 a month net would be what, high 40's, low 50's a year? Is this normal for your field? Are you full time or part time?

Longer term, are you open to moving away from Sydney? Maybe your money would go further in a city with a lower cost of housing, especially if you have kids and want something larger. Two $50-70K jobs paying off an $800K Sydney mortgage doesn't sound all that fun.

Well it's 1 income for a while if they decide to have a kid, and even then it might be better to stay on 1 income to avoid having the 2nd wage eaten up with childcare. The mortgage doesn't have to be $800k... you can still find units in decent areas for 500k-600k... but at the end of the day, they are units not houses.

I'm still curious though that things are not adding up... it's clear that you can/do live on your salary, so where has Mr mustachepungoeshere's wage been going all this time? Would have expected the asset column to be somewhat larger???


mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Aussie DINKS with a looming redundancy - review our budget and next steps
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2015, 02:19:44 PM »
My husband's boss - who has also been made redundant but will remain boss for the contract period - has requested 10 per cent on top of current salary for the team to offset those entitlements, but you think 20 per cent is more appropriate?

The other thing is, what's the potential for you to earn more in your present role or in another role? $3340 a month net would be what, high 40's, low 50's a year? Is this normal for your field? Are you full time or part time?

Longer term, are you open to moving away from Sydney? Maybe your money would go further in a city with a lower cost of housing, especially if you have kids and want something larger. Two $50-70K jobs paying off an $800K Sydney mortgage doesn't sound all that fun.

I'm full-time, and yes, that pay is normal for my field.

We moved to Sydney for work. Our jobs - particularly two in the same field - don't really exist outside major centres.

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Aussie DINKS with a looming redundancy - review our budget and next steps
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2015, 02:26:40 PM »
I'm still curious though that things are not adding up... it's clear that you can/do live on your salary, so where has Mr mustachepungoeshere's wage been going all this time? Would have expected the asset column to be somewhat larger???

Five years ago our combined monthly income was $4916 and our monthly expenses were $4103.

Since then, our income has gradually increased, and we have paid off debt (my husband brought a car loan into the marriage) and worked to cut our expenses.

I looked at our contents insurance policy last night. If we cancel the portable valuable insurance on the camera kit, it drops to $32/month for $30k contents. Still above what you are paying so it's time to shop around.

alsoknownasDean

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Re: Aussie DINKS with a looming redundancy - review our budget and next steps
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2015, 02:19:14 AM »
Well it's 1 income for a while if they decide to have a kid, and even then it might be better to stay on 1 income to avoid having the 2nd wage eaten up with childcare. The mortgage doesn't have to be $800k... you can still find units in decent areas for 500k-600k... but at the end of the day, they are units not houses.

I'm still curious though that things are not adding up... it's clear that you can/do live on your salary, so where has Mr mustachepungoeshere's wage been going all this time? Would have expected the asset column to be somewhat larger???

Consumer debts? HECS elimination (my guess is that additional payments have been made for a while)?

By the way, I'm sure one could find units in decent areas in other cities for much less than 500-600k. I've been looking (with the view to buying in early 2017), and I've found a number of 2 bedroom units under 20km (even under 15km) from the city for $350K or less here in Melbourne (mainly in the northern and western suburbs). You can get a house for that if you go even further out.

I'm full-time, and yes, that pay is normal for my field.

We moved to Sydney for work. Our jobs - particularly two in the same field - don't really exist outside major centres.

Would the same jobs (and incomes) be available in other major centres with cheaper housing? Melbourne, Brisbane, Adelaide, Perth, even Canberra?

If you had two 100+k incomes, yeah it might be worth staying in Sydney.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2015, 02:30:13 AM by alsoknownasDean »

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Aussie DINKS with a looming redundancy - review our budget and next steps
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2015, 07:57:44 PM »
Update:

My husband has received a draft contractor agreement on the new venture - no rates, but enough contradicting clauses and creative interpretation of copyright that we're getting it legalled.

He also just received the guidelines for the transition period, which answers some questions about the next three months but also raises some.

Most alarming is that, as contractors, they will no longer be covered under the company's public liability and personal accident insurance, and have been instructed they need to arrange their own policies. I have very little experience with this kind of policy but guidelines estimate it will run to $400-$500/month. Each.

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Aussie DINKS with a looming redundancy - review our budget and next steps
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2015, 06:25:54 PM »
Update:

He was offered $7962/month as a contractor for January-March (which I assume reflects what they will pay if they keep him on thereafter).

The challenge now is to look at how we can best manage tax, HECS, public liability insurance and expenses to maximise his net pay.

Research time for me. Input welcome!

mustachepungoeshere

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Six months on, time for an update.

His three months of contract work became six, doing the same job in the same building with just a few logistical changes. (No corporate credit card, no gym access, and having to invoice a new company.)

They have set up a new office under the joint venture, and he expects a FT contract this week.


Income
Me: $3340/month take home
Him: $4090/month take home $7962 contractor rates

Budget
$1600 rent~
$500 groceries/food/booze
$290 health insurance $315 (annual increase)
$140 phones
$115 union fees $57.50 (he is dropping his*)
$87 car insurance
$85 bike insurance $35         
$80 train/fuel/tolls
$60 internet
$50 power         
$50 contents insurance $27
$45 sponsor child
$15 Netflix

*The more time he spends in his industry, the better his profile, and the less he needs the protection of the union. He didn't apply for his current job, they created the position then called and told him he was hired. He declined two FT job offers during this contractor period, so it's likely he will never have to endure another job interview.

Debt
$3500 credit card PAID
$7950 HECS (his)
$13,550 HECS (mine)

Savings/assets
$1000 emergency fund $88,500 savings
$41,000 super (his)
$41,000 super (mine)


The changes I had already begun making prior to the redundancy plus my time on the forum - and the occasional boot up the arse when I needed it - took what could have been a very stressful situation and made it a slight inconvenience while we waited for things to stabilise.

We opened a high-interest savings account, transferred the redundancy payment, and added to it each month. We have no current plan for the money, we've just been keeping it accessible while he was working month-to-month.

Thank you all for your input and support when this first cropped up. In particular, marty998 has been an invaluable sounding board throughout all this. Thanks mate.

marty998

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Re: Updated: Aussie DINKS with a looming redundancy
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2016, 05:44:31 AM »
Aww no probs... glad things have worked out so far :)

Keep up the good work!

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!