Author Topic: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...  (Read 55689 times)

cashstasherat23

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #200 on: September 01, 2015, 10:14:00 AM »
I am concerned about your parents 'finding another way' but not talking about it. Might want to watch your credit reports like a hawk just in case they go to an extreme like taking out a loan in your name without your knowledge.

Trust me, I've already looked at them, and will continue to monitor them!

cashstasherat23

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #201 on: September 01, 2015, 10:22:43 AM »
You'll all be happy to know that as intended, I also offered to pay for the student loans that they took out in my name, as well as to remove myself from the family cell phone plan, rather than pay them the money for my portion every month as I've been doing, as I really would like to be fully responsible for myself financially. I also told them that I appreciate everything they have done for me thus far and don't want them to think for a second that I don't, but this is a completely different situation that I don't want to be a part of anymore.

Step one:  Don't ask them to remove you from the family plan...do it your damn self.  Get on the internets right now, start up a Ting account and transfer your number now.  It takes at most 24 hours; mine took 15 minutes.  Then you are free and financially responsible for yourself, and you tell mom and dad that you are off the plan.  Done!

Actually after I sent the email I went right to the Republic Wireless website, and am now checking out Ting, trying to see what the best option is for me.

Step two:  Identify any other places in your life that mom and dad are subsidizing you and shut it down.  Car insurance?  Get your own!  Student loans taken out to benefit you?  I've never known a company that wouldn't accept a payment against an account even if it doesn't come from the name on the loan.  Do it!  Surely you can find the company name and account number.  Give them a call and make payment arrangements. 

Besides the cell phone, there is nothing else that they pay for me. The only other thing that comes to mind is my mother's health insurance, which I am currently on, but as secondary plan...I have my own health insurance. I don't believe it costs them anything to have me on there, but I can have them take me off of that as well.

Step three:  Have you shut down that credit card yet?  Sheesh!  It doesn't matter that Dad's feelings are hurt...he is hurting your credit!  His feelings are his responsibility...your life is yours.

Oof...I have not. I did let him know that I would be contacting them, but have not yet called. I know...facepunch me. I will do it soon! First step was telling them...I had to work up to that, and I don't want to blindside them or embarrass them by removing the card without telling them, but I know it needs to be done.

AlwaysLearningToSave

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #202 on: September 01, 2015, 10:26:04 AM »
I didn't want to discuss via text message, but have a hard time standing up to them on the phone and always cave in, so I just finished penning a very long email to explain to them where I'm coming from, and why I don't want to do this anymore. I just hit send, and actually feel very nervous and sick to my stomach, as I feel like a traitor to the family and am worried that they will not understand, but I hope that they understand where I'm coming from. I guess that this would have had to happen eventually, so it's better that I do this sooner rather than later, but it's an awful feeling!

. . .

I hope that they understand, and that this doesn't cause a huge rift in my family. Very nervous, but hoping that this is the right thing to do. Thanks for all of your input, MMM friends!

Good work, OP.  It sucks, I know.  I had many of the same feelings when I weaned myself from my family's strings-attached and manipulative financial support.  Fair warning: they probably will not understand where you are coming from and it will very likely cause a significant change in your family dynamic.  The dynamic will probably never be the same.  But that is a good thing.  You did what you did because the dynamic needed to change. 

I also can relate to not wanting to discuss such hard things over email and text but at the same time lacking confidence that I could stay strong in in-person interactions.  My family had the very unhealthy dynamic of never openly dealing with conflict or disagreement when I was growing up, and so I never learned how to manage it.  Trying to navigate such big disagreement and conflict was gut wrenching.  The more you do it, the easier it will become, but if you are like me, the family conflict will never be easy to handle.  I now manage conflict professionally on a daily basis and it now comes easily.  But conflict with my family still makes my gut churn.  Just remember that you don't owe them an explanation, justification, or apology.  If the conversation goes that direction, just shut it down by saying that you've made your decision and you don't want to discuss it any further.  Of course that is easier said than done, but it can be done.

We on the forum can be a good source of support, but it also helps to have someone who can support you in person as well.  A good counselor can be great (though that can be expensive).  A friend who has gone through something similar can often help.  For me my then-fiance-now-wife was an invaluable source of strength and encouragement in the hard times.

But you are not done yet.  Remove your Dad as an authorized user on the credit card.  You've already told him about it so you won't surprise him or cause a problem.  Just do it now so that it is done and will not continue to loom over you.

Then check out the "Boundaries" book reference earlier in this thread from your local library or buy a used copy on Amazon and start reading.  It will be invaluable for you. 
« Last Edit: September 01, 2015, 11:24:19 AM by AlwaysLearningToSave »

Gin1984

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #203 on: September 01, 2015, 10:30:11 AM »
You'll all be happy to know that as intended, I also offered to pay for the student loans that they took out in my name, as well as to remove myself from the family cell phone plan, rather than pay them the money for my portion every month as I've been doing, as I really would like to be fully responsible for myself financially. I also told them that I appreciate everything they have done for me thus far and don't want them to think for a second that I don't, but this is a completely different situation that I don't want to be a part of anymore.

Step one:  Don't ask them to remove you from the family plan...do it your damn self.  Get on the internets right now, start up a Ting account and transfer your number now.  It takes at most 24 hours; mine took 15 minutes.  Then you are free and financially responsible for yourself, and you tell mom and dad that you are off the plan.  Done!

Actually after I sent the email I went right to the Republic Wireless website, and am now checking out Ting, trying to see what the best option is for me.

Step two:  Identify any other places in your life that mom and dad are subsidizing you and shut it down.  Car insurance?  Get your own!  Student loans taken out to benefit you?  I've never known a company that wouldn't accept a payment against an account even if it doesn't come from the name on the loan.  Do it!  Surely you can find the company name and account number.  Give them a call and make payment arrangements. 

Besides the cell phone, there is nothing else that they pay for me. The only other thing that comes to mind is my mother's health insurance, which I am currently on, but as secondary plan...I have my own health insurance. I don't believe it costs them anything to have me on there, but I can have them take me off of that as well.

Step three:  Have you shut down that credit card yet?  Sheesh!  It doesn't matter that Dad's feelings are hurt...he is hurting your credit!  His feelings are his responsibility...your life is yours.

Oof...I have not. I did let him know that I would be contacting them, but have not yet called. I know...facepunch me. I will do it soon! First step was telling them...I had to work up to that, and I don't want to blindside them or embarrass them by removing the card without telling them, but I know it needs to be done.
Get a referral if you do switch to ting or republic wireless.

Rosy

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #204 on: September 01, 2015, 11:05:05 AM »
Tough - but well done and over with.
Congrats on standing up for yourself and protecting your assets for the future. Your desire and indeed right to make independent and smart choices with your money is something they should be proud of. It benefits no one at all if you cave in and follow their past and present history of reckless financial decisions.
Family is always tough and I hope in the end it all blows over sooner rather than later. A little distance can be a good thing to help everyone stand back and come to their senses - we hope:)

You love them and they love you, but it is time for you to disengage from a potential financial disaster.

As a parent, I can understand wanting to help all your children as they have helped you with your student loans, they are intent on doing the same for your brother.
They are living in la la land and have lost their grip on the reality of their true and rather dire financial situation. Your father and mother need to face facts and tell your brother - we are not in a position to help you. It is sad, but true. Besides, he already had his chance - the next school expenses should be entirely on him - period.
They are not doing him any favors by supporting his spendthrift, irresponsible ways.

Anyway - kudos to you for paying them back for your own student loans, I believe that is the right thing to do. Besides, if you paid them back for you SL why couldn't they use that money for your brothers SL - just a thought.
You never had an obligation to finance or co-sign anything for your brother, that is ludicreous. Forgiving the $400 is all I'd ever be willing to entertain and I would surely use it for ammunition in my arguments.

The phone is easy - set up a plan that works for you, then cancel your participation in the family plan. No need for long discussions at all.

To me the credit card is actually the red herring, it does represent your cutting the cord, but also makes things harder for your Dad, so I totally understand how hard this is to do. I'm not saying you should, but I would pay it off and close the account if that is possible. Your dad voicing the opinion that he is helping your credit only shows how removed from reality he has become.
Kudos for telling him upfront first - I know that was not easy. Deep breath and act upon it in a way that is considerate and satisfactory to you both. No need to be mean about it, but don't let it fester - cut the cord asap.

Do find out what the alternate solution to your brothers SL woes turns out to be and leave no doubt in their minds that you will no longer be involved in enabling their poor lifestyle choices. Good luck!:)

UnleashHell

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #205 on: September 01, 2015, 11:39:21 AM »
That's some huge independent strides made right there. Excellent work. Congrats.

partgypsy

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #206 on: September 01, 2015, 01:05:05 PM »
Good for you! And though it doesn't feel like it, not only is this better and clearer financially, this will lead to a healthier, more balanced relationship with your parents in the future. It's hard though to keep the line when probably so many in your family want you to revert to old ways.

jooles

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #207 on: September 01, 2015, 01:14:31 PM »
Looks like you're well on your way to good choices.  Here's my two cents re all cosigned loans -

Just say NO!

Anyone who needs a cosigner is a bad risk.  Why are you suddenly you are smarter than the bank.  The bank is in business to loan money.  They only make money when they loan money.  The bank exists to loan money.  When the bank says no it is for a very good reason.

If you would give this brother, or any person, a GIFT of this amount of money, then do that.  Give him the money.  Co-signing on a loan is equivalent to accepting the loan as your responsibility to pay back.  The statistical likelihood of you being left holding the bag for this loan is VERY high.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2015, 01:19:16 PM by jooles »

Interest Compound

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #208 on: September 01, 2015, 01:33:04 PM »
I am concerned about your parents 'finding another way' but not talking about it. Might want to watch your credit reports like a hawk just in case they go to an extreme like taking out a loan in your name without your knowledge.

Trust me, I've already looked at them, and will continue to monitor them!

This is probably the biggest red flag ever! Every day I see posts like this on the Personal Finance subReddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/3j6u49/brother_stole_my_ssn_and_personal_info_opened_up/

"Brother stole my ssn and personal info. Opened up a credit card in my name. Stole 8k USD from me from my bank and student loans. What can I do?"

You think the pressure to co-sign for your brother is bad...wait until you have to deal with the pressure to NOT press charges against your parents for identity theft! I cannot emphasize this enough, freeze your credit before it's too late!

cashstasherat23

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #209 on: September 01, 2015, 01:41:26 PM »
I am concerned about your parents 'finding another way' but not talking about it. Might want to watch your credit reports like a hawk just in case they go to an extreme like taking out a loan in your name without your knowledge.

Trust me, I've already looked at them, and will continue to monitor them!

This is probably the biggest red flag ever! Every day I see posts like this on the Personal Finance subReddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/3j6u49/brother_stole_my_ssn_and_personal_info_opened_up/

"Brother stole my ssn and personal info. Opened up a credit card in my name. Stole 8k USD from me from my bank and student loans. What can I do?"

You think the pressure to co-sign for your brother is bad...wait until you have to deal with the pressure to NOT press charges against your parents for identity theft! I cannot emphasize this enough, freeze your credit before it's too late!

Did not know that was an option, but something I will definitely look in to! I hate having to think of my parents as "the enemy" but I want to be sure that I am protecting myself and my finances. I don't think they would ever do anything like that, but I guess you never know.

AlwaysLearningToSave

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #210 on: September 01, 2015, 01:53:38 PM »
I am concerned about your parents 'finding another way' but not talking about it. Might want to watch your credit reports like a hawk just in case they go to an extreme like taking out a loan in your name without your knowledge.

Trust me, I've already looked at them, and will continue to monitor them!

This is probably the biggest red flag ever! Every day I see posts like this on the Personal Finance subReddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/3j6u49/brother_stole_my_ssn_and_personal_info_opened_up/

"Brother stole my ssn and personal info. Opened up a credit card in my name. Stole 8k USD from me from my bank and student loans. What can I do?"

You think the pressure to co-sign for your brother is bad...wait until you have to deal with the pressure to NOT press charges against your parents for identity theft! I cannot emphasize this enough, freeze your credit before it's too late!

Probably a good idea.  Hopefully your parents are not so crazy as to steal your identity and taking precaution is overkill.  But you DO NOT want to risk the consequences of finding out the hard way that they ARE crazy enough to do it.  Freezing it won't take a ton of extra work but it will protect your family relationships and go a long ways toward helping you sleep better at night.  Just freeze it because you have a lot to lose if they prove themselves crazier than you think they are.

clifp

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #211 on: September 01, 2015, 01:58:27 PM »
Add another yes you did the right thing and I can't believe your parents would ask you.

BTW, I'd suggest that if your brother/parents are serious about making money.  That whole situation has the making for one of those crazy reality/sitcom shows. Maybe they could write a script and sell  it.  The responsible millennial and his irresponsible  parents has man bites dog  quality to it.

GoldenNeko

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #212 on: September 01, 2015, 02:01:04 PM »
Yes, protect yourself cashstasherat23! You did right with that mail.

You need to stand for yourself and protect your assets. In the end, you'll feel much better this way, rather than co-signing (willing or unwillingly it seems) your own financial doom.

I know it's not easy. I stopped speaking to my own parents during 6 months, a few years ago. The crisis was not finance related, but it was a long time coming. They didn't understand at first. But time helped them understand. Now, our relationship is back to normal, even better I'd say, cause now, I'm an adult taking my own decisions. And I don't resent them either.

Sometimes, a big crisis is better than an infected, unhealed wound.

Candace

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #213 on: September 01, 2015, 02:09:35 PM »
To the OP:

I have used the following service to freeze my credit. It works great so far. It's free.

http://www.experian.com/consumer/security_freeze.html

Now, anytime I want to apply for a new credit card or loan, I have to jump through a few hoops, but so does anyone else trying to open an account in my name. I recommend this for people in general, regardless of any special situation, because I believe it reduces the risks if your identity is stolen.

cashstasherat23

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #214 on: September 01, 2015, 02:18:07 PM »
Yes, protect yourself cashstasherat23! You did right with that mail.

You need to stand for yourself and protect your assets. In the end, you'll feel much better this way, rather than co-signing (willing or unwillingly it seems) your own financial doom.

I know it's not easy. I stopped speaking to my own parents during 6 months, a few years ago. The crisis was not finance related, but it was a long time coming. They didn't understand at first. But time helped them understand. Now, our relationship is back to normal, even better I'd say, cause now, I'm an adult taking my own decisions. And I don't resent them either.

Sometimes, a big crisis is better than an infected, unhealed wound.

Right now it sure doesn't feel that way. I just got back a heart-breaking email from him, and am doing my best not to cry at work. He said that money is ok to seek, but family is forever, and is upset that I said wouldn't lend my brother the money, because we should be there to support each other. He is also taking this as me "losing faith in him", and says that he won't bother me again.

It's been very hard lately because my parents recently moved a few states away, and I've already felt far away from them. I am afraid that they will stop speaking to me, which is not what I intended.

GoldenNeko

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #215 on: September 01, 2015, 02:27:21 PM »
Yes, protect yourself cashstasherat23! You did right with that mail.

You need to stand for yourself and protect your assets. In the end, you'll feel much better this way, rather than co-signing (willing or unwillingly it seems) your own financial doom.

I know it's not easy. I stopped speaking to my own parents during 6 months, a few years ago. The crisis was not finance related, but it was a long time coming. They didn't understand at first. But time helped them understand. Now, our relationship is back to normal, even better I'd say, cause now, I'm an adult taking my own decisions. And I don't resent them either.

Sometimes, a big crisis is better than an infected, unhealed wound.

Right now it sure doesn't feel that way. I just got back a heart-breaking email from him, and am doing my best not to cry at work. He said that money is ok to seek, but family is forever, and is upset that I said wouldn't lend my brother the money, because we should be there to support each other. He is also taking this as me "losing faith in him", and says that he won't bother me again.

It's been very hard lately because my parents recently moved a few states away, and I've already felt far away from them. I am afraid that they will stop speaking to me, which is not what I intended.

Do you have a friend you can call or see after work? You need to be with someone friendly at the moment.
I know how crappy it feels. Being right doesn't mean some part of yourself won't feel guilty, or ashamed. It's just cause you love your parents, and every child wants to please his/her parents.
Give them, and yourself, some time. You were right to say no. You know it deep down. And they know it.

If I could OP, I'd hug you. Try to see a friend or do something you really enjoy. The feelings will calm down.

MissStache

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #216 on: September 01, 2015, 02:29:05 PM »
Yes, protect yourself cashstasherat23! You did right with that mail.

You need to stand for yourself and protect your assets. In the end, you'll feel much better this way, rather than co-signing (willing or unwillingly it seems) your own financial doom.

I know it's not easy. I stopped speaking to my own parents during 6 months, a few years ago. The crisis was not finance related, but it was a long time coming. They didn't understand at first. But time helped them understand. Now, our relationship is back to normal, even better I'd say, cause now, I'm an adult taking my own decisions. And I don't resent them either.

Sometimes, a big crisis is better than an infected, unhealed wound.

Right now it sure doesn't feel that way. I just got back a heart-breaking email from him, and am doing my best not to cry at work. He said that money is ok to seek, but family is forever, and is upset that I said wouldn't lend my brother the money, because we should be there to support each other. He is also taking this as me "losing faith in him", and says that he won't bother me again.

It's been very hard lately because my parents recently moved a few states away, and I've already felt far away from them. I am afraid that they will stop speaking to me, which is not what I intended.

Ugh, such awful, awful emotional manipulation.  Please realize that they are TRYING to make you feel bad and GUILTY because that is what manipulators do.  If they really thought that family was there to support each other, then they would not be using you and trying to get you to damage your own future for your brother's sake or for their own.  They are not looking out for your best interests.  They are being selfish.  You deserve much better. 




cashstasherat23

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #217 on: September 01, 2015, 02:34:10 PM »
Yes, protect yourself cashstasherat23! You did right with that mail.

You need to stand for yourself and protect your assets. In the end, you'll feel much better this way, rather than co-signing (willing or unwillingly it seems) your own financial doom.

I know it's not easy. I stopped speaking to my own parents during 6 months, a few years ago. The crisis was not finance related, but it was a long time coming. They didn't understand at first. But time helped them understand. Now, our relationship is back to normal, even better I'd say, cause now, I'm an adult taking my own decisions. And I don't resent them either.

Sometimes, a big crisis is better than an infected, unhealed wound.

Right now it sure doesn't feel that way. I just got back a heart-breaking email from him, and am doing my best not to cry at work. He said that money is ok to seek, but family is forever, and is upset that I said wouldn't lend my brother the money, because we should be there to support each other. He is also taking this as me "losing faith in him", and says that he won't bother me again.

It's been very hard lately because my parents recently moved a few states away, and I've already felt far away from them. I am afraid that they will stop speaking to me, which is not what I intended.

Do you have a friend you can call or see after work? You need to be with someone friendly at the moment.
I know how crappy it feels. Being right doesn't mean some part of yourself won't feel guilty, or ashamed. It's just cause you love your parents, and every child wants to please his/her parents.
Give them, and yourself, some time. You were right to say no. You know it deep down. And they know it.

If I could OP, I'd hug you. Try to see a friend or do something you really enjoy. The feelings will calm down.

Thank you. I actually just finally messaged my best friend and told her all about it, because I need to talk to someone about it. I've been keeping the whole situation a secret for so long because my parents asked me to, but it's too much for me to deal with.

I'm also going on a date tonight, so hopefully that will help keep my mind off things. I hate that I'm in this situation!

GoldenNeko

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #218 on: September 01, 2015, 02:39:35 PM »
Congrats on the date! Have fun, and report back to best friend after that (and to us, cause curious Mustachians here ^_^)
Joke aside, give yourself some time and try to enjoy your life, your happiness will do the rest.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #219 on: September 01, 2015, 02:39:45 PM »
Right now it sure doesn't feel that way. I just got back a heart-breaking email from him, and am doing my best not to cry at work. He said that money is ok to seek, but family is forever, and is upset that I said wouldn't lend my brother the money, because we should be there to support each other. He is also taking this as me "losing faith in him", and says that he won't bother me again.

It's been very hard lately because my parents recently moved a few states away, and I've already felt far away from them. I am afraid that they will stop speaking to me, which is not what I intended.
It's always a bit of a strain when grown kids choose to not follow their parents' wishes.  And I think it's important to make it clear that you still care about them and love them.  But boundaries are still important.  My mom hates my haircut (#1 guard over the whole head), but I've made it clear to her that I'm not going to grow it off in order to show off my bald spot and receding hair line. :)  We still call them frequently just to talk and catch up.

Your parents may be trying to emotionally manipulate you, or they may just be genuinely disappointed in your choices.  Either way, it shouldn't matter to you.

mtn

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #220 on: September 01, 2015, 02:41:34 PM »
"I understand how you feel. I am here for emotional support or financial counselling, but I cannot provide financial support. I am responsible for me, and at this moment in my life I cannot take on the risk of having anyone but myself on my liability sheet. My brothers past actions have made that an impossibility."

Candace

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #221 on: September 01, 2015, 02:41:53 PM »
Yes, protect yourself cashstasherat23! You did right with that mail.

You need to stand for yourself and protect your assets. In the end, you'll feel much better this way, rather than co-signing (willing or unwillingly it seems) your own financial doom.

I know it's not easy. I stopped speaking to my own parents during 6 months, a few years ago. The crisis was not finance related, but it was a long time coming. They didn't understand at first. But time helped them understand. Now, our relationship is back to normal, even better I'd say, cause now, I'm an adult taking my own decisions. And I don't resent them either.

Sometimes, a big crisis is better than an infected, unhealed wound.

Right now it sure doesn't feel that way. I just got back a heart-breaking email from him, and am doing my best not to cry at work. He said that money is ok to seek, but family is forever, and is upset that I said wouldn't lend my brother the money, because we should be there to support each other. He is also taking this as me "losing faith in him", and says that he won't bother me again.

It's been very hard lately because my parents recently moved a few states away, and I've already felt far away from them. I am afraid that they will stop speaking to me, which is not what I intended.

Ugh, such awful, awful emotional manipulation.  Please realize that they are TRYING to make you feel bad and GUILTY because that is what manipulators do.  If they really thought that family was there to support each other, then they would not be using you and trying to get you to damage your own future for your brother's sake or for their own.  They are not looking out for your best interests.  They are being selfish.  You deserve much better.

This is so true. If your parents were "there to support you", they wouldn't be asking you to lend your brother money when they know he's so unlikely to pay you back. Family members don't support each other by letting themselves be doormats. Supporting someone who's just taking advantage of you doesn't make any sense.

Good luck.

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #222 on: September 01, 2015, 02:49:55 PM »
Oh cashstasherat23, that's hard, I'm sorry.  Family is forever, which is why you are doing this very hard thing that will hopefully force your parents and brother to change their destructive ways. You are also protecting yourself, which protects them, too.  Someday they may really need money for a true emergency (not a third try at school or maintaining lifestyle levels, but, say, a medical emergency), and you are no good to them then by ruining your finances over stuff like this.

Go ahead and reply once more, letting them know that you are putting your family first by being responsible and trying to get them to behave responsibly with finances, too.  (Yes, that's patronizing, but you're allowed to say it because it's true and they need to hear it.) Then leave it alone for a while.  Ask your best friend to screen their e-mails and voicemails (don't even listen to or read the guilt-trippy ones; if there are normal-sounding ones respond to those.) There was no way to do this without causing at least a temporary rift in your family, but you are setting boundaries and protecting the small oasis of financial sanity in your family (you.)

Get your dad off your credit card and freeze your credit, PRONTO.  Then see if serpentstooth will still send you those cookies.  Will be a nice pick-me-up to receive in the mail.  :)

SunshineAZ

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #223 on: September 01, 2015, 02:51:30 PM »
Right now it sure doesn't feel that way. I just got back a heart-breaking email from him, and am doing my best not to cry at work. He said that money is ok to seek, but family is forever, and is upset that I said wouldn't lend my brother the money, because we should be there to support each other. He is also taking this as me "losing faith in him", and says that he won't bother me again.

It's been very hard lately because my parents recently moved a few states away, and I've already felt far away from them. I am afraid that they will stop speaking to me, which is not what I intended.
OMG What your father said is 100% textbook emotional blackmail!!!  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_blackmail 

Please don't let him make you feel guilty for something that you are not obligated to do.  You should be angry at the manipulation, not guilty. 



RyanAtTanagra

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #224 on: September 01, 2015, 02:52:50 PM »
"I understand how you feel. I am here for emotional support or financial counselling, but I cannot provide financial support. I am responsible for me, and at this moment in my life I cannot take on the risk of having anyone but myself on my liability sheet. My brothers past actions have made that an impossibility."

This is a great and succinct response.  Copy/paste it.

lemanfan

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #225 on: September 01, 2015, 03:06:16 PM »
I'm also going on a date tonight, so hopefully that will help keep my mind off things.

Good luck with the date!

We're here to give you moral support!  You're doing a brave thing - keep it up and make your own choices!

(and I can guarantee that serpentthooths cookies are worth waiting for... :)  )

innkeeper77

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #226 on: September 01, 2015, 03:22:31 PM »
I haven't read every post, but I had to chime in as a financial underwriter. Freeze your credit, but realize that there are three places you need to do this! Some institutions use one bureau, while some use others. Freeze it at experian, trans union, and Equifax. Doing it with just one will not fully protect you!

Also, sometimes when you are actually open an account, banks etc will ask for a temporary lift of the freeze to make it easier on them. Don't do this, go to whichever bureau they are using, and give them an access code. Its a pain for them, so they may not even tell you its an option. Do it anyway. An access code is much safer than undoing the freeze for 24 hours!

There are also things called "hawk alerts" that aren't a freeze but that mean the bank etc has to verify your identity on the phone  before opening an account. The freeze is more effective though, and prevents inquiries.

llorona

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #227 on: September 01, 2015, 03:26:25 PM »
People don't react well when others seek independence. Wars have been fought for this very reason.

Your family is not going to like that you're flexing your muscles and extracting yourself from financial entanglement. This is new and different. They are going to have a reaction - confusion, hurt, anger, etc. Part of the process is letting them have their feelings and emotions without feeling responsible.

You mentioned concern that your family will stop speaking to you. Since your parents have already resorted to emotional manipulation, it's a possibility that they will withdraw from you for a while. But think about this: if they stop talking to you over this, who's really the one prioritizing money over family?
« Last Edit: September 01, 2015, 03:32:20 PM by llorona »

Capt Stubble

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #228 on: September 01, 2015, 03:27:58 PM »
Right now it sure doesn't feel that way. I just got back a heart-breaking email from him, and am doing my best not to cry at work. He said that money is ok to seek, but family is forever, and is upset that I said wouldn't lend my brother the money, because we should be there to support each other. He is also taking this as me "losing faith in him", and says that he won't bother me again.

It's been very hard lately because my parents recently moved a few states away, and I've already felt far away from them. I am afraid that they will stop speaking to me, which is not what I intended.
OMG What your father said is 100% textbook emotional blackmail!!!  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_blackmail 

Please don't let him make you feel guilty for something that you are not obligated to do.  You should be angry at the manipulation, not guilty.

+1. When you've gotten over the guilt and sorrow of hurting their feelings and upsetting the family dynamic, you'll probably get in touch with some (justified) anger if you haven't already. Your father owes you a sincere apology and I hope you'll do him the favor of demanding it.

cchrissyy

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #229 on: September 01, 2015, 05:55:15 PM »
Quote
You mentioned concern that your family will stop speaking to you. Since your parents have already resorted to emotional manipulation, it's a possibility that they will withdraw from you for a while. But think about this: if they stop talking to you over this, who's really the one prioritizing money over family?

So true

You have taken big strides in your own independence. Maybe, for right now, this is also a time you need to be reaching out to friends. If you are lonely, try building up new or old friendships instead of reaching to your family while this stuff is still raw.

It sounds like they are hurt - and trying to use you - and using common emotional manipulation techniques -  and all of that cane be true at once, and also you can still care about them and want to be closer again in the future.  but for now, continue these amazing actions of taking responsibility for yourself and not hurting yourself on behalf of anybody else, and go read those books recommended in earlier comments about boundaries and such. Other people really do get this. Good luck!

Faraday

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #230 on: September 01, 2015, 06:04:42 PM »
Right now it sure doesn't feel that way. I just got back a heart-breaking email from him, and am doing my best not to cry at work. He said that money is ok to seek, but family is forever, and is upset that I said wouldn't lend my brother the money, because we should be there to support each other. He is also taking this as me "losing faith in him", and says that he won't bother me again.

It's been very hard lately because my parents recently moved a few states away, and I've already felt far away from them. I am afraid that they will stop speaking to me, which is not what I intended.

Hey cashstash!
First, let me ask you - does that email actually SOUND like your FATHER? It reads more like something a mother would write when her sweet baby boy is getting kicked in the 'nads by sister.

I'm gonna put a spin on this that I hope will make you mad:

You are being manipulated for the sake of your deadbeat brother. It's that old "boys can do no wrong, girls can do no right" horseshit.

It's time for you to show them that you've got the chops baby. That you've got game and can BRING IT when you have to! Be strong. You owe it to the people you will love (and who will love you back) in the future!

For what it's worth, sweetie, there are many of us here who have suffered similarly, or even worse. We stand with you and we cheer you on. You are NOT choosing "money over family". You are NOT choosing ANYTHING over family. You are just living your life the way you decide.

You are a grown-ass woman and you do what you want. :-)


Argyle

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #231 on: September 01, 2015, 07:05:52 PM »
If family members are supposed to support each other monetarily, how come your father isn't supporting you monetarily by paying for his charges on the credit card promptly and without carrying a balance?  And how come family caring is expressed, apparently, only by giving someone money?  Wouldn't it be an expression of caring to love and cherish someone even if they decided not to spend more of their money on you?  (As you are doing to your brother and father.)

I'm not seeing caring here.  I'm seeing people who are so panicky about money that they're throwing around terms like "caring" and "loyalty" and stuff, just to extract more money.  If they're all that invested in family closeness, let them demonstrate it by shutting up about the money.

This stuff will pass.  Right now they're just having tantrums because their free money supply has been cut off.

okonumiyaki

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #232 on: September 01, 2015, 07:27:06 PM »
My father stopped talking to my sister for a year or so (would make my mother answer the phone in case it was her...) over a engagement she ended where he felt she behaved badly.  My wife didn't talk to my FIL for a couple of years after he had an affair.  But time heals all wounds, and, yes, family is forever, and the relationships ended up stronger than ever.  In both cases it was a realisation that unconditional love doesn't mean you let other adults get away with being dicks.

Shinplaster

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #233 on: September 01, 2015, 07:48:42 PM »
If family members are supposed to support each other monetarily, how come your father isn't supporting you monetarily by paying for his charges on the credit card promptly and without carrying a balance?  And how come family caring is expressed, apparently, only by giving someone money?  Wouldn't it be an expression of caring to love and cherish someone even if they decided not to spend more of their money on you?  (As you are doing to your brother and father.)

I'm not seeing caring here.  I'm seeing people who are so panicky about money that they're throwing around terms like "caring" and "loyalty" and stuff, just to extract more money.  If they're all that invested in family closeness, let them demonstrate it by shutting up about the money.

This stuff will pass.  Right now they're just having tantrums because their free money supply has been cut off.

+1

Because family IS forever, it's important to set these boundaries at the start of your adult life.  They will push, and prod, and throw tantrums just as children do to test those limits, but do not give in.  If you do, you will never get to really be an adult, and control your own life and finances. They know you love them - this is just noise.

Kaikou

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #234 on: September 01, 2015, 07:57:47 PM »
OP I'm proud of you, we all are. Your parents need time to realize what's going on. It's hard to hear their backlash, but expected. Probably like the 5 stages of Grief.

Please freeze your credit like others have said.

Who knows maybe when this information makes way to your brother, he will think about his own independence or opportunity to seek it.

Lead don't follow.

K-ice

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #235 on: September 01, 2015, 09:50:05 PM »

 He said that money is ok to seek, but family is forever, and is upset that I said wouldn't lend my brother the money, because we should be there to support each other. He is also taking this as me "losing faith in him", and says that he won't bother me again.


This is the part that shows your family still doesn't understand. I am sure you would strongly consider lending him the money if you had it. For example, you have the cash on hand and it is less than 5% of your net investments. Asking you to co-borrow the money in your name is a compleatly different and risky situation.

Stay strong!

LeRainDrop

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #236 on: September 01, 2015, 10:00:51 PM »

 He said that money is ok to seek, but family is forever, and is upset that I said wouldn't lend my brother the money, because we should be there to support each other. He is also taking this as me "losing faith in him", and says that he won't bother me again.


This is the part that shows your family still doesn't understand. I am sure you would strongly consider lending him the money if you had it. For example, you have the cash on hand and it is less than 5% of your net investments. Asking you to co-borrow the money in your name is a compleatly different and risky situation.

Stay strong!

Totally agree!  One thing from my own family/lending experience -- My parents were unrealistically optimistic that Middle Brother would pay me back in a certain time frame, that he would strike success quickly, etc.  It wasn't that they maliciously wanted me to be saddled with his liabilities, but rather they were blind to the obvious risk.  Perhaps that's partly why your parents are feeling hurt -- they are too optimistic in thinking your brother will make it through school and pay all the loans timely, and so they cannot see why you wouldn't simply lend your name as a co-signer; if they opened their eyes to the more likely outcome, perhaps they would not apply the pressure.  Then again, perhaps they still would because it would kick the can down the road and buy them some time to hope they come up with another solution.  In any event, OP, you are doing the right thing.  I am very proud of you!

Zamboni

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #237 on: September 01, 2015, 10:16:24 PM »
You mentioned concern that your family will stop speaking to you. Since your parents have already resorted to emotional manipulation, it's a possibility that they will withdraw from you for a while. But think about this: if they stop talking to you over this, who's really the one prioritizing money over family?

Wow, llorona really nails it with that last sentence. Powerful.

Cast away that lingering guilt, OP. No regrets. They'll get over it.

And if they don't, and if your Mom or Dad or Brother keep bringing it up even after you ask them to stop because you are not changing your mind, then be blunt: "We've already discussed this. I've asked you to stop dwelling on this yet you keep bringing it up. It hurts my feelings that you aren't listening and respecting my opinion, and every time you dredge it up again it's damaging your relationship with me. If you keep bringing this up, then who's really the one prioritizing money over family?"

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #238 on: September 02, 2015, 05:33:54 AM »
If you were my child I would be proud of you. Good for you for standing up! Stay strong and don't let them manipulate you emotionally. As others have already suggested I also can recommend the book "Boundaries" by Dr. Henry Cloud. You have to read it!

Gray Matter

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #239 on: September 02, 2015, 06:25:22 AM »
You've already gotten great advice and support here, but I'll chime in anyway, just in case one more voice supporting what you did helps.  Your dad's e-mail is ironic, because you are doing this because family is so important to you--you are taking steps to preserve the familial relationships, keep people on equal footing, and not let something like money come between you and your brother.  Stay strong, and know that your parents are the ones who are prioritizing money over family right now.

Also, on an unrelated issue, I had a huge blowout with my parents when I was 30 (they didn't like how I was raising my toddler and tried to force my hand...literally, wanted me to spank him when that's something I was against).  They "banished" us for a summer, wouldn't come to my house if he was there (Really?  I'm going to send my two-year-old away so you can visit?  I think not.).  It was excruciating for me, because I'd never really broken away from them psychologically as I should have, never rebelled, and still sought their approval.  If it had been any other thing besides my son, I probably would have caved, but I had a responsibility to him that outweighed my desire to be the dutiful daughter.

I was sick to my stomach over it for weeks, kept replaying conversations in my head, cried, talked about it obsessively with friends and colleagues, but stuck to my guns.  It took a long time, but things are better than ever between us.  I needed to break away in order to come back into the relationship as an adult--I should have done it much, much sooner!  I've never gotten anything like an apology from my parents (they're not the sort, as they're never wrong), but my mom did say that I have really great kids, and that perhaps all those things I did when they were little didn't hurt them after all, and if anything, made them nicer.  I appreciated her words, but the biggest point here is that I didn't need them.  I can't tell you what a relief it is to have appropriate boundaries.

midweststache

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #240 on: September 02, 2015, 07:15:30 AM »
Hey cashstasher, I just wanted to chime in with some support. Other people have given you lots of financial advice, but I want to offer a perspective on the parent situation.

I'm assuming from your username that your in your early twenties--that's a particularly difficult time to navigate parent/child relationships, particularly if you've been away or living at home during college. You're an adult now--with your own priorities, finances, decisions, etc. That's really hard for parents, who think you're still their young kid. The dynamic of your relationship is changing--everyone is adults vs. you being a child and under their care--and while this change is good, necessary, and inevitable, it's very difficult to navigate. I'm in my late twenties, and only in the past few years (in fact, particularly after I got married this April) did my parents really step back and see me as my own person and a fully functioning adult rather than as just their daughter.

Part of this may come from the fact that you're pushing back against what they think is best, and, in their mind, that's not your place--you are their child, and they know what is best. Obviously, you disagree (for very good reasons) and so they friction is bound up in 1) the disagreement and 2) your new role/identity as more than their child. It sucks and it's hard.

When I told my (conservative, religious) parents that I was moving in with my BF (now DH) when I was 24, they flipped. It really strained our relationship. But I stuck by my guns because I knew that was what was best for me, and the relationship slowly got better. It was never the same, but that's OK--it shouldn't be. I'm an adult now, and though they will ALWAYS be my parents and I will ALWAYS be their daughter, that dynamic has changed. That change is hard (as you're experiencing now) but stand your ground--this is about asserting your identity as an adult as much as it is about asserting your financial agency and stability.

I hope things get better with your parents. Best of luck!

cashstasherat23

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #241 on: September 02, 2015, 08:32:05 AM »
Thanks for the support, all! Yesterday afternoon was pretty awful, but I ended up talking to my parents later in the evening, and things are a bit better, if still not resolved.

My father explained that he felt like he was being treated like a child by being told that the cards were just going to be cut off, and felt hurt that he thought that I was saying I didn't trust him to make payments. I understand where he's coming from, but he still doesn't seem to be understanding that I don't want him using the card anymore. He keeps insisting that he'll stop using it, but that I shouldn't cancel the card. I still want to, and explained that to him, but think it may take some time to get him to understand that. I know you all are saying that I should just call Chase and cut it off now, but I really am just not ready to do that. For this week, it's enough for him to pay the balance off and stop using it, and I'll tell him again that I'm canceling the card when I work up the nerve!

You all will be pleased to hear though that my mother was a voice of reason, and said that we should never let something like this come between us, and that we can figure it out, even if my father can be hotheaded and stubborn. Feeling a bit better than yesterday!

bsmith

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #242 on: September 02, 2015, 08:37:29 AM »
You're talking to him too much about that card. Have him pay it off, then you can close it. Don't discuss it first, because obviously you will lose that battle. Obviously you will. Close it, then you can tell him you did after it's done.

Sibley

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #243 on: September 02, 2015, 08:50:24 AM »
OP, you and your parents are evolving your relationship. Previously, they were adults and you were a child. The new state is that they are adults and you also an adult. That process isn't always fun. Hang in there, take care of yourself, and know that things will eventually get better.

Stockmom

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #244 on: September 02, 2015, 09:01:32 AM »
So, is the agreement with your father that he still gets to use the card?  I agree that you're giving him too much input about it.  It's YOUR credit card account, not his.  The fact of the matter is you DON'T trust him to continue using the card.  Instead of feeling guilty when he points out that fact to you, you can just feel good about the fact that he gets it.  Just because it hurts his feelings doesn't mean it isn't a completely appropriate way for you to feel/act.  My advice is to stop talking to him about it and cancel it.  He can initiate a conversation again with you about it when he tries to use it again (which he isn't supposed to do again, right?).  If he holds up his end of the bargain, he will never have to know that the card sitting in his wallet won't do him any good. 

begood

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #245 on: September 02, 2015, 09:08:09 AM »
Thanks for the support, all! Yesterday afternoon was pretty awful, but I ended up talking to my parents later in the evening, and things are a bit better, if still not resolved.

My father explained that he felt like he was being treated like a child by being told that the cards were just going to be cut off, and felt hurt that he thought that I was saying I didn't trust him to make payments. I understand where he's coming from, but he still doesn't seem to be understanding that I don't want him using the card anymore. He keeps insisting that he'll stop using it, but that I shouldn't cancel the card. I still want to, and explained that to him, but think it may take some time to get him to understand that. I know you all are saying that I should just call Chase and cut it off now, but I really am just not ready to do that. For this week, it's enough for him to pay the balance off and stop using it, and I'll tell him again that I'm canceling the card when I work up the nerve!

You all will be pleased to hear though that my mother was a voice of reason, and said that we should never let something like this come between us, and that we can figure it out, even if my father can be hotheaded and stubborn. Feeling a bit better than yesterday!

Is the account joint? Or is it YOUR card and he's an authorized user? If it's the latter, I encourage you to remove him as an authorized user. Has he paid off the $2K balance? Because until he does, then I think it is accurate to say he has not "made the payments".

You can kick this can down the road if you want, but until your father doesn't have access to your credit line, it feels like you're on shaky ground.

Kris

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #246 on: September 02, 2015, 09:19:53 AM »
You're talking to him too much about that card. Have him pay it off, then you can close it. Don't discuss it first, because obviously you will lose that battle. Obviously you will. Close it, then you can tell him you did after it's done.

This.  Plus, if he isn't using it anymore, he won't know whether you've closed it or not, unless he happens to check his credit report. It's no longer his business. 

GizmoTX

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #247 on: September 02, 2015, 09:44:12 AM »
If you must close the card rather than drop dad as an authorized user, open another CC first. Depending on your credit, this could be an opportunity to get better rewards. Then get dad off the first card, & freeze your credit with all 3 agencies. ASAP. Then tell him his card no longer functions. He already promised not to use it so he shouldn't be depending on it anymore, but you need to remove the temptation.

Kudos for becoming independent! Be patient, don't feel guilty, & stand your ground. Your family needs some time on their own to decide to treat you as an equal & self sufficient adult. Don't accept anything less!


AlwaysLearningToSave

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #248 on: September 02, 2015, 09:47:27 AM »
Your Dad is talking out of both sides of his mouth.  If your Dad truly isn't going to use the credit card, there is no reason for him to be on the account.  Remove him as an authorized user and tell him about it later.  If you are concerned and would still like to help him rebuild his credit, open a new credit card, add him as an authorized user, but don't tell him about it and never give him a card.  You get the satisfaction of knowing you are helping him rebuild his credit without the risk of him abusing the privilege and hurting your credit. 

Shinplaster

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #249 on: September 02, 2015, 10:24:05 AM »
He keeps insisting that he'll stop using it, but that I shouldn't cancel the card.

And you know that means he WILL use the card again, as long as it's available.  If he really intends to stop using it, he wouldn't care if you cancelled it.   Take him off the card, and make the clean break.

You should be proud of yourself - this is very hard to navigate.  Families are very good at manipulating and "guilting" others into doing things they shouldn't.   Thankfully it sounds as if your Mom is going to be reasonable.  Your Dad will get over it.