Author Topic: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...  (Read 54933 times)

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #250 on: September 02, 2015, 10:50:59 AM »
He keeps insisting that he'll stop using it, but that I shouldn't cancel the card.

And you know that means he WILL use the card again, as long as it's available.  If he really intends to stop using it, he wouldn't care if you cancelled it.

Not to defend the parents, because I do agree 100% with the advice of everyone here, but I imagine the reason he wants to stay on the card, even if he doesn't use it, is to re-build his credit post-bankruptcy.  I don't know how hard it would be for him to get a CC on his own that would have zero fees and the normal 30-day grace period, making it worth it.

bsmith

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #251 on: September 02, 2015, 11:06:00 AM »
What does he need credit for? Only buy stuff you can afford! This is just feeding in to his bad habits.

If he wants good credit, he should build it himself. I declared bankruptcy and rebuilt it. Inadvertently, because I don't carry a balance on credit cards, but still. Imagine what you could do if you tried. Oh wait, Dad doesn't have to try, because he's getting carried.

K-ice

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #252 on: September 02, 2015, 12:05:59 PM »
I would probably take a breather on the cancle the card immediately discussion.

This is not the advise you have been hearing from most, but I think it may be too much at once.

I recall it was sometimes a hassle collecting from him. Does he pay in full on time or just the minimum?

If he is missing payments, has damaged your credit,  & you need to cover his ass, cut the cord, oh card! 

You can quit reading.

But let's say your Dad is responsible with it and pays in full on time. But he just needs you because his credit is so low.

However, it still bothers me that you both use the card. This just makes splitting the bill that much harder & the limit that much higher.

If he needs the help & you are comfortable with your dad, I would lower the limit, and get myself a new card. Stop using the card linked with your Dad. The limit needs to be higher with you both using it yet you have no control if you spend that limit or him. Lower the limit to just what he can afford & you could bail him out one last time if necessary. Tell your dad he is responsible for paying that card in FULL ten days before the due date.

Also, is his credit that bad that he can't even get his own card with a $200 limit?  Maybe you can help him find a card of his own. Go to the bank together, fill out the paperwork, get him started on his own. "Dad I want to help you build your own credit."

This parent child role reversal is ass-backwards, but I can tell you are a loving, caring daughter who doesn't want to leave her dad hanging.






« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 12:08:45 PM by K-ice »

bsmith

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #253 on: September 02, 2015, 12:10:38 PM »
Quote
Also, is his credit that bad that he can't even get his own card with a $200 limit? Maybe you can help him find a card of his own. Go to the bank together, fill out the paperwork, get him started on his own.

Come to think of it, I did this. Got a CC through the bank I had at the time and charged groceries and monthly expenses on it. They raised my limit pretty regularly, and probably would have more often if I'd asked. Now I'm doing travel hacking with cards from credit built up from that one over a long time.

You don't have to go to the bank with him. Find a card online.

cashstasherat23

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #254 on: September 02, 2015, 12:16:12 PM »
I would take probably a breather on the cancle the card immediately discussion.

This is not the advise you have been hearing from most, but I think it may be too much at once.

I recall it was sometimes a hassle collecting from him. Does he pay in full on time or just the minimum?

If he is missing payments, has damaged your credit,  & you need to cover his ass, cut the cord, oh card! 

You can quit reading.

But let's say your Dad is responsible with it and pays in full on time. But he just needs you because his credit is so low.

However, it still bothers me that you both use the card. This just makes splitting the bill that much harder & the limit that much higher.

If he needs the help & you are comfortable with your dad, I would lower the limit, and get myself a new card. Stop using the card linked with your Dad. The limit needs to be higher with you both using it yet you have no control if you spend that limit or him. Lower the limit to just what he can afford & you could bail him out one last time if necessary. Tell your dad he is responsible for paying that card in FULL ten days before the due date.

Also, is his credit that bad that he can't even get his own card with a $200 limit?  Maybe you can help him find a card of his own. Go to the bank together, fill out the paperwork, get him started on his own. "Dad I want to help you build your own credit."

This parent child role reversal is ass-backwards, but I can tell you are a loving, caring daughter who doesn't want to leave her dad hanging.

He does pay on time, but as time has gone on, it has gone from being the full payment to a partial payment, as the balances have gotten bigger. He always pays the interest charges as well when they are accrued, but it is a hassle for me every month to figure out what's owed, and now what's been carried over and not paid.

As for the card, it is silly, but this is my favorite credit card to have, my Chase sapphire card. I don't plan on canceling it, just removing him as an authorized user. I don't put much on it, and have about 10 other cards that I can use that all have 0 balances at all times (I did credit card churning for a while), but I'd prefer for him to just stop using this card, as I'd like to keep it my primary. If it came down to it though, of course I would cancel it completely, but don't think it needs to come to that.

He actually does have his own card as well, but has told me that the limit is very low, so he uses my card for the larger purchases he needs to make. Yes, I recognize this is a problem. Yes, it irritates me that this encourages spending above his means. For now, I think that lowering the limit may be a good solution, to get him to stop relying on it so much, before I remove him completely.

Argyle

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #255 on: September 02, 2015, 12:27:37 PM »
I agree that if you're going to continue to keep him on it for a while (which I personally would advise against), stop using it yourself, so all the charges and interest will be his, and you can easily figure out how much he should be paying.

If you have ten other cards, aren't you paying unnecessary money for your cards?  The Chase Sapphire costs $95 a year, as I remember.  (I have one myself but it's still on the initial free one-year period, after which it is going to be cancelled.)  If you have more than one free-charging credit card, that's money going down the drain.  I never even have one myself my standby credit card is fee-free (a Chase frequent-flyer card), and I only get others for their initial free periods, and then cancel.

Anyway, returning to the main topic, if your dad is no longer paying off the card every month, he is in over his head.  This is not someone whose credit you want entwined with your own.  I think the chances are large that you're going to be left paying off some of his debt, and that somehow you're going to get blamed for it.  ("If you had only let me stay on the card, I would have..."  But this is just fantasy talking, like the kind of fantasy that makes him think carrying a balance on a credit card is good money management.) 

You said your parents were making significant salaries how can they be so broke?  Are they spending extravagantly?  Is there leakage going on somewhere, like a gambling habit? 

Whatever is happening, good for you for breaking away from their bad habits!

I'm a red panda

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #256 on: September 02, 2015, 01:08:06 PM »
He does pay on time, but as time has gone on, it has gone from being the full payment to a partial payment, as the balances have gotten bigger. He always pays the interest charges as well when they are accrued, but it is a hassle for me every month to figure out what's owed, and now what's been carried over and not paid.

As for the card, it is silly, but this is my favorite credit card to have, my Chase sapphire card. I don't plan on canceling it, just removing him as an authorized user. I don't put much on it, and have about 10 other cards that I can use that all have 0 balances at all times (I did credit card churning for a while), but I'd prefer for him to just stop using this card, as I'd like to keep it my primary. If it came down to it though, of course I would cancel it completely, but don't think it needs to come to that.

He actually does have his own card as well, but has told me that the limit is very low, so he uses my card for the larger purchases he needs to make. Yes, I recognize this is a problem. Yes, it irritates me that this encourages spending above his means. For now, I think that lowering the limit may be a good solution, to get him to stop relying on it so much, before I remove him completely.

I really think you need to remove him completely, and now.  Don't cancel the card if that's not how you want to handle it- but do not let him use it. 

The part in bold is just NOT OKAY.  It is not okay to let him use YOUR credit like this. 

K-ice

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #257 on: September 02, 2015, 01:09:06 PM »
Sorry! A partial payment is not paying on time.

Does he have no idea how CC interest works?

I learnt the hard way. I "always" pay on time from 2 different accounts. One month on a bill of about $3000 I added wrong and was short $200.

I caught the error 2 days after the due date, but befor the next statement, and threw $400 just to be sure.

I expected a few dollars. $200*20%/y  /365days * 2 days late = less than $1.


But the interest on those $200 for two days was almost $50.. 

That is because interest is on the full balance from the day the purchases were made. In my case, about a month ago.


So roughly $3000x20%/y / 12months/year = $50.


I honestly had no idea how it worked! Look at an old bill, verify the math on the interest.  I had paid in full for 12y so I had never been dinged before.

By not paying in full, your Dad is actually paying interest on your purchases as well.

Figure out how you want to do it, but you need to quit sharing a card with him.


BTW I calculated a $50 return on $200 in 2 days is a 4562% annual return.



Interest Compound

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #258 on: September 02, 2015, 01:16:09 PM »
He keeps insisting that he'll stop using it, but that I shouldn't cancel the card.

And you know that means he WILL use the card again, as long as it's available.  If he really intends to stop using it, he wouldn't care if you cancelled it.

Not to defend the parents, because I do agree 100% with the advice of everyone here, but I imagine the reason he wants to stay on the card, even if he doesn't use it, is to re-build his credit post-bankruptcy.  I don't know how hard it would be for him to get a CC on his own that would have zero fees and the normal 30-day grace period, making it worth it.

This is true, but not necessarily the OP's problem.

OP, if the father doesn't want to use the card, the answer is simple. Have him physically give you the card. If he refuses, I'd simply take him off as an authorized user.

lemanfan

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #259 on: September 02, 2015, 01:19:38 PM »
As a foreigner I do now know that specific card.  What makes you attached to that one instead of the others you have?


cashstasherat23

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #260 on: September 02, 2015, 01:42:06 PM »
As a foreigner I do now know that specific card.  What makes you attached to that one instead of the others you have?

I like the ways to earn and redeem points that card has, and find that they accumulate quickly, and it's a metal card, so superficially it's cool to have, but again, wouldn't have any problem canceling it if need be.

As for the other cards I have, all or most are no fee, and the ones that do have a fee either haven't come due yet and I plan to cancel them before that happens, or I have gotten the fee waived. Most of them are hotel or airline specific cards because I travel quite a bit for work and personal travel, so I keep them around for the free bags checked or the hotel perks, and find it worth it for me to keep them, but they don't accrue as many points for the things I buy, so don't use them all too much. 

GizmoTX

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #261 on: September 02, 2015, 02:01:45 PM »
He actually does have his own card as well, but has told me that the limit is very low, so he uses my card for the larger purchases he needs to make. Yes, I recognize this is a problem. Yes, it irritates me that this encourages spending above his means. For now, I think that lowering the limit may be a good solution, to get him to stop relying on it so much, before I remove him completely.

Problem solved! He already has a card with a low limit, so he's covered in case of emergency. His "larger purchases" can be paid by check, debit card, or online bill pay with his bank. If he doesn't have enough money for them, he's using your credit for a loan plus paying a wasteful premium for the interest.

Get him off your card today!!! It may end badly if you don't. Plus you will not have to bother with collecting his payments any more or worrying if they will happen in the future. Can he see what you are purchasing?

NumberJohnny5

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #262 on: September 02, 2015, 04:20:10 PM »
Ok OP, for some reason your dad convinced you that he "NEEDS" that card to build his credit.

Please answer us this. Is it a joint account or is it solely in your name, with him as an authorized user? If you don't know, seriously, you need to find out. This is basic information you should know.

If he's an authorized user, there is a very simple solution. Extremely simple. In fact, I think I mentioned it way back in the thread, but regardless. Call up the credit card company. Report both cards as being lost. Have both replacements sent to you. Cut up his card into tiny pieces, perhaps an industrial shredder? Then burn it. Then bury it (or dispose of properly according to your local regulations blah blah blah). Tell him you had the company replace the card, you're keeping it, and this will keep him on the account to rebuild his credit.

This will actually help both of your credit scores. The more he charges, the higher the utilization on the card. That does not look good.

Do this BEFORE you talk to him. Before, not after.

Now.

Not later.

NOW!!!

Why? He's given you a reason to keep the card open, to "help" his credit. He doesn't need it for emergencies, just to rebuild credit. This way, he's still on your card, just as before. His credit will still be "helped". He has his own card to manage for emergencies.

Jump NOW!!!!! at this golden opportunity. If you talk to him first about this plan, then there will be another reason given. Any plan you come up with will be countered. Simply cancel the card number (not the account, just that particular card number). Tell him after the fact. He'll then give you the "but you should really..." spiel. Tell him you were going by what he told you. You thought of a perfect solution to make everyone happy. If he keeps it up, just say this:

"You know, I'm beginning to really resent this credit card and the stress it's putting on our relationship. I'm just going to cancel the whole thing! I'm so angry at them for doing this to us!!!"

Yeah, it's not the card company's fault. But (mis)placing the blame on them might make your dad feel like this isn't an attack on him. If you're lucky, the reaction you'll get from him will be "No no, don't cancel it. We'll talk about this later." Then he can have a "win" by letting you do what you already did (cancel the current card number, get new cards issued that you keep, he's still an authorized user, his credit is not impacted).

LeRainDrop

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #263 on: September 02, 2015, 08:00:21 PM »
Sorry! A partial payment is not paying on time.

Agreed!

By not paying in full, your Dad is actually paying interest on your purchases as well.

That is an excellent point.

Problem solved! He already has a card with a low limit, so he's covered in case of emergency. His "larger purchases" can be paid by check, debit card, or online bill pay with his bank. If he doesn't have enough money for them, he's using your credit for a loan plus paying a wasteful premium for the interest.

Get him off your card today!!! It may end badly if you don't. Plus you will not have to bother with collecting his payments any more or worrying if they will happen in the future.

Spot on.  If you don't remove your dad as an authorized user, there will come a time when you're left holding the bag.  It's pretty much guaranteed.

Kaikou

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #264 on: September 02, 2015, 08:13:31 PM »
At least you are able to have a dialog with your parents. It proves you have a strong bond and maybe you have to do things a little bit different than suggested (although there is a wide variety on how to get the end result) but at the end of the day still do them.

Be happy you have open parents even if they are afraid or angry. It will make your relationship stronger.

Argyle

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #265 on: September 02, 2015, 10:38:35 PM »
The way I interpret it, it's not really that the dad wants to rebuild his credit, though i'm sure that's a bonus for him.  The dad still wants to be able to charge expensive things on a card, and wants to piggyback on the OP's good credit to use a credit card.

But there's a very good reason the credit card companies will only give the dad a card with a low credit limit.  Because he is not reliable for higher amounts.  The fact that he's started carrying a balance is showing that he's beginning to overextend himself.  And just as happened before (which I imagine is the reason he has been denied higher-limit cards), at some point he will be unable to keep up with his obligations to pay.  Then the OP really will have a lot of forgiving to do to maintain a harmonious relationship.  It is actually better for the future of the relationship to prevent that from happening by discontinuing the dad on the card.

But I really don't believe it's a matter of credit limits and all that. It's a matter of emotions, on both sides.  The sooner the emotions get separated from the spending, the better.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #266 on: September 03, 2015, 07:31:27 AM »
What if you called up the CC company, and asked them to lower the limit to the amount Dad can pay at one time?  If he normally charges $2k/mo, but can only pay $1k at a time, drop the limit to $1k.

I'm a red panda

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #267 on: September 03, 2015, 07:36:43 AM »
What if you called up the CC company, and asked them to lower the limit to the amount Dad can pay at one time?  If he normally charges $2k/mo, but can only pay $1k at a time, drop the limit to $1k.

But then OP can't use the card that she most prefers to use.


Dad needs to be OFF the card. (Especially since Dad seems to be disillusionally thinking he is helping the OP build credit by using the card! If the OP wants to help build her Dad's credit, then taking the card away is key- but chances are Dad has the number memorized and could still use it online. OP needs a new card issued with a new number; and Dad needs to be removed or not given the new card.)


Edit to fix pronoun
« Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 11:08:01 AM by iowajes »

cashstasherat23

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #268 on: September 03, 2015, 10:51:38 AM »
Ok OP, for some reason your dad convinced you that he "NEEDS" that card to build his credit.

Please answer us this. Is it a joint account or is it solely in your name, with him as an authorized user? If you don't know, seriously, you need to find out. This is basic information you should know.

"You know, I'm beginning to really resent this credit card and the stress it's putting on our relationship. I'm just going to cancel the whole thing! I'm so angry at them for doing this to us!!!"


Woah, ok! I think I've answered a few times, but yes, this is my account with him as an authorized user, not a joint account. No, he can't see the charges that I am putting on there, but I do see all his charges. Each month I tally everything up and send him the amount he owes. Yes, I realize that he is paying interest on mine+his charges, and he does too. Definitely like the way you've phrased things above RE the stress it's putting on our relationship, and have mentioned that to him and will do so again.

At least you are able to have a dialog with your parents. It proves you have a strong bond and maybe you have to do things a little bit different than suggested (although there is a wide variety on how to get the end result) but at the end of the day still do them.

Be happy you have open parents even if they are afraid or angry. It will make your relationship stronger.


Yeah, I'm glad that we have an open relationship, but it also makes this situation difficult to navigate. I think we'll all come out of it just fine, but it's just been tricky to figure out so far!


But I really don't believe it's a matter of credit limits and all that. It's a matter of emotions, on both sides.  The sooner the emotions get separated from the spending, the better.

This is spot on. It bothers me because I feel like I was pushed into this situation and I don't want to keep doing it, and I feel like I'm being guilted into continuing to do so. I could go back and forth all day with lower credit limits, just not using the card, etc, but the truth of the matter is that it's the principle of the matter that bothers me the most.


But then OP can't use the card that he most prefers to use.


I'm a woman! Had to point that out :) Not all of us mustachians are men!

Retire-Canada

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #269 on: September 03, 2015, 11:01:38 AM »
Time to cancel that card. Pay off the balance and get on with your life. Hopefully he pays off his share or trade him what he owes you for some $$ you owe him for putting you through school.

Just tell your dad you don't want that card any more and you are going to a cash only lifestyle. If you have to go without a card for a few months.

Eventually you can get a new one without him on it. He doesn't have to know.

I'm a red panda

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #270 on: September 03, 2015, 11:07:15 AM »

I'm a woman! Had to point that out :) Not all of us mustachians are men!

Me too. And that drives me crazy. I usually type (s)he but didn't this time.  Sorry.
I actually used OP multiple times in the next part of the post to avoid "their" when I didn't know if you were a he or a she; but I missed it in the first sentence.

Faraday

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #271 on: September 03, 2015, 11:09:38 AM »

I'm a woman! Had to point that out :) Not all of us mustachians are men!

Me too. And that drives me crazy. I usually type (s)he but didn't this time.  Sorry.

And BTW: it's super-cool that we have female mustachians in the forums. The Marketing Brainwashing is targeted heavier at women than men (I'm thinking shoes, purses, clothes) and so to see past it, IMHO, is a great accomplishment.

Argyle

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #272 on: September 03, 2015, 11:11:28 AM »
You want your dad off your card.

Your dad wants to stay on the card.

Therefore he will use guilt to try to keep you from taking him off.  That's all it is.   He's using guilt to get what he wants.

What you, OP, are trying to do is to try to stop him from guilting you.  The situation is still under his control.  Your card, but his control.

How can you put an end to this scenario where he controls your actions?  Don't feel guilty.  That's all there is to it.  He's inviting you to feel guilty, but you don't have to accept his invitation.  He's trying to retain control by getting all upset about the situation and suggesting that you should feel responsible for that.  But it's his choice.  (And a silly choice.)

Just take him off the card.  Don't wait for him to be not upset or not to impose guilt on you.  Because then he's got you.  All he has to do to control you is to hint that he's getting upset.  Then you back down.   Rinse, repeat.  It can and will go on for years.

Pull the Band-Aid off and make the call.  Wait for him to get over the attempts at manipulation.  Then proceed as usual.

GizmoTX

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #273 on: September 03, 2015, 11:18:42 AM »
You want your dad off your card.

Your dad wants to stay on the card.

Therefore he will use guilt to try to keep you from taking him off.  That's all it is.   He's using guilt to get what he wants.

What you, OP, are trying to do is to try to stop him from guilting you.  The situation is still under his control.  Your card, but his control.

How can you put an end to this scenario where he controls your actions?  Don't feel guilty.  That's all there is to it.  He's inviting you to feel guilty, but you don't have to accept his invitation.  He's trying to retain control by getting all upset about the situation and suggesting that you should feel responsible for that.  But it's his choice.  (And a silly choice.)

Just take him off the card.  Don't wait for him to be not upset or not to impose guilt on you.  Because then he's got you.  All he has to do to control you is to hint that he's getting upset.  Then you back down.   Rinse, repeat.  It can and will go on for years.

Pull the Band-Aid off and make the call.  Wait for him to get over the attempts at manipulation.  Then proceed as usual.
+1

OP, a few more facts about authorized users:

Authorized users never "build credit" for the primary cardholder, only themselves. Your dad's purchases aren't helping your credit history.

Banks want to see the credit history of a person as a primary cardholder, not an authorized user, so after some time, his status as an authorized user isn't going to help him raise his own card limit.

More charges & carrying a balance are not better -- combined usage of a card can push utilization too high, negatively affecting your score. Or prevent you from using it.

Authorized users are never liable for what is charged on the card. This puts you in the enforcer role. Never good for "family is forever".

bsmith

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #274 on: September 03, 2015, 11:50:38 AM »
Do this:

Quote
If he's an authorized user, there is a very simple solution. Extremely simple. In fact, I think I mentioned it way back in the thread, but regardless. Call up the credit card company. Report both cards as being lost. Have both replacements sent to you. Cut up his card into tiny pieces, perhaps an industrial shredder? Then burn it. Then bury it (or dispose of properly according to your local regulations blah blah blah). Tell him you had the company replace the card, you're keeping it, and this will keep him on the account to rebuild his credit.

It's brilliant. Everyone wins. Win-win. Do it TODAY!

Also, create a security code for talking to the credit card company so that he can't call them up and get the number, and then go wild on Amazon.

mm1970

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #275 on: September 03, 2015, 02:16:37 PM »

I'm a woman! Had to point that out :) Not all of us mustachians are men!

Me too. And that drives me crazy. I usually type (s)he but didn't this time.  Sorry.

And BTW: it's super-cool that we have female mustachians in the forums. The Marketing Brainwashing is targeted heavier at women than men (I'm thinking shoes, purses, clothes) and so to see past it, IMHO, is a great accomplishment.
I'm a woman too, and always assumed the OP was a man, because I just cannot imagine a father putting that kind of guilt and pressure on a daughter.  Huh.

cashstasherat23

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #276 on: September 03, 2015, 02:21:52 PM »

I'm a woman! Had to point that out :) Not all of us mustachians are men!

Me too. And that drives me crazy. I usually type (s)he but didn't this time.  Sorry.

And BTW: it's super-cool that we have female mustachians in the forums. The Marketing Brainwashing is targeted heavier at women than men (I'm thinking shoes, purses, clothes) and so to see past it, IMHO, is a great accomplishment.
I'm a woman too, and always assumed the OP was a man, because I just cannot imagine a father putting that kind of guilt and pressure on a daughter.  Huh.

Yup, I'm the oldest, and also the best with money in my family. I have two younger brothers, but one just graduated and the other is the f*ck-up, so they have always kind of turned to me to help, whether I had a choice in the matter or not. It's compounded by the fact that I've always been a "daddy's girl"...my dad and I are very close, so it sucks to have this guilt trip from him, but I know what I have to do. I'm dragging my feet about doing it, but I do plan on removing him completely from the card.

Zamboni

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #277 on: September 03, 2015, 03:37:33 PM »
Great! Glad you are planning to remove him. Remove him now. Like right now. Today.

He has said he won't use it, so he won't even need to know. If he then gets on your case about it, just say "you said you weren't going to use it!!! So now you've tried to use it and you broke your word to me."

One thing that I keep having in the back of my mind is how my own Dad ran up his own cards paying for my brother's college (after he lost his scholarship). Your Dad could easily one day decide to charge an entire tuition bill to your card right up to the tippity top of your limit. And at that point there wouldn't be anything you could do about it. You think he wouldn't do that to you? I hope you are right, but I've been major league burned by loved ones before when it comes to money.

DeepEllumStache

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #278 on: September 03, 2015, 03:41:26 PM »
Your Dad is talking out of both sides of his mouth.  If your Dad truly isn't going to use the credit card, there is no reason for him to be on the account.   

This x 1000.

It's hard to redefine the roles between you and your family. If you let them guilt you into being the "backup bank" then you'll never be able to build those adult relationships with them. Your family will continue to use you, thinking that it's okay to do because they love you.

There was a family member that only called to talk to me to borrow money. I finally cut that person off stating that I wasn't a bank. That conversation sucked. I hate conflict, the guilt trip was miserable, and family is family. I didn't hear from that person for a year and that hurt. But I don't regret it. That person did a complete 180 and turned their life around financially, eventually paying back every dollar of the $2k borrowed from me within a few years.

People can change but they won't realize that there is something to change until you stop enabling them.

Jack

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #279 on: September 03, 2015, 04:54:19 PM »
I hesitate to mention this because it's a terrible idea compared with just ripping the band-aid off completely... but if you really wanted to keep letting your dad use a card it doesn't mean you'd have to keep letting him use that card. In other words, you could switch him to being an authorized user of one of the other cards you don't use yourself, preferably one with a limit low enough he couldn't get himself into trouble.

Still, it's a terrible idea, only a tiny bit better than the status-quo. Do what everybody else has been telling you and cut him off completely.

Mrs. PoP

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #280 on: September 03, 2015, 07:01:53 PM »
Please someone correct me if I'm wrong on this... but what's sticking out to me are the suggestions to lower the credit limit on the card.  Wouldn't that just bump up the credit utilization on the card, having a likely negative effect on both your and your fathers' credit scores?  And since he's presumably on the card as a way to help his credit, it might have the opposite effect. 

Zamboni

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #281 on: September 03, 2015, 07:15:33 PM »
I've been rolling this around in my mind. It has occurred to me that taking your Dad off as an authorized user probably won't stop him from using it a many places anyway. It might stop online purchases, but in person purchases I bet will still go through if he has a physical card since the account is active. The only real solution is to call Chase, tell them you need to remove him as a user, and ask for them to reissue the card with a new number. Problem solved.

Just for the record, I've had a couple of cards reissued with new numbers at the company's discretion due to attempts at fraud that triggered their computer (so the charges didn't go through). I didn't even ask them to change the number, they just did it.

Also, another poster already hit on this, but your comments about being a Daddy's girl and him being a hothead make me realize that this is more about him controlling you than it is about the money or the use of the card. Yes, the money could become a real problem for you in the future if he gets in a situation where he can't pay or decides not to pay. But really I think the core of this is that he wants to control you and what you do. And you are a nice person so you don't rebel against this (which is what your brother has done; he's a fuck up at least partially as a way to say "you can't control me" to your parents.) But the time has come for you to be completely independent of his control, and that comes with taking these steps to protect yourself and become financially completely independent and separate from him.

This is a giant forum of financially responsible adults, and everyone seems unanimous that he should not be able to use your card. Get the card number changed and remove him, and then if worse comes to worse in a discussion, keep repeating to him:

"This just isn't working for me."
"This just isn't working for me."
"This just isn't working for me."

That's all the reason you need to give him. Please stop trying to explain yourself to him.

babysnowbyrd

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #282 on: September 03, 2015, 07:41:59 PM »

Right now it sure doesn't feel that way. I just got back a heart-breaking email from him, and am doing my best not to cry at work. He said that money is ok to seek, but family is forever, and is upset that I said wouldn't lend my brother the money, because we should be there to support each other. He is also taking this as me "losing faith in him", and says that he won't bother me again.

It's been very hard lately because my parents recently moved a few states away, and I've already felt far away from them. I am afraid that they will stop speaking to me, which is not what I intended.

Ugh, such awful, awful emotional manipulation.  Please realize that they are TRYING to make you feel bad and GUILTY because that is what manipulators do.  If they really thought that family was there to support each other, then they would not be using you and trying to get you to damage your own future for your brother's sake or for their own.  They are not looking out for your best interests.  They are being selfish.  You deserve much better.

This is so true. If your parents were "there to support you", they wouldn't be asking you to lend your brother money when they know he's so unlikely to pay you back. Family members don't support each other by letting themselves be doormats. Supporting someone who's just taking advantage of you doesn't make any sense.

Good luck.
+1

This is manipulation, not disappointment.

Perhaps you can turn it around by expressing YOUR disappointment that they are NOT willing to support you and instead want to compromise you financially.

Someone else up thread mentioned NOT letting them know from this point on about any saved money or investments, and I'd like to second that as well.

GizmoTX

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #283 on: September 03, 2015, 08:09:10 PM »
I completely agree about getting your CC bank to issue you a new number at the time that you call to drop your dad as an authorized user! Some CCs are now issuing different numbers to authorized users for this very reason, but most still are not. Whether they do or not, they certainly understand about changing the number to prevent further charges from either former users or fraudulent ones. They won't charge you anything. Worst case, you'll have to wait a week or two for your replacement card to arrive.

In my opinion, the only authorized users should be spouses or 16-20 year olds living in the same household. Being eyeball to eyeball makes a big difference in accountability.

FWIW, I'm the oldest of my 4 siblings, still the best with money, & was a daddy's girl. Then at 21, Daddy started trying to guilt manipulate me, so I do understand some of what you must be going through. It was tough to see what he was trying to do but it made me angry & sad enough to keep saying no. Distance helps. Daddy eventually came to regard me as an adult but only after I waited on any contact until he stopped the ugly "conversations".

My husband & I now have a senior son who lives away at his university & is 100% responsible for managing his expenses & 2 credit cards in his own name. We're very close but know he has to fly on his own.

Kaikou

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #284 on: September 03, 2015, 09:29:19 PM »
yeah being a daddy's girl changes the dynamic and most people wouldn't even assume parents do this to female offspring even in today's world.

But yeah you need to get him off. Weird why doesn't your mom want to be on your card?

LeRainDrop

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #285 on: September 03, 2015, 09:40:37 PM »

I'm a woman! Had to point that out :) Not all of us mustachians are men!

Me too. And that drives me crazy. I usually type (s)he but didn't this time.  Sorry.

And BTW: it's super-cool that we have female mustachians in the forums. The Marketing Brainwashing is targeted heavier at women than men (I'm thinking shoes, purses, clothes) and so to see past it, IMHO, is a great accomplishment.
I'm a woman too, and always assumed the OP was a man, because I just cannot imagine a father putting that kind of guilt and pressure on a daughter.  Huh.

Yup, I'm the oldest, and also the best with money in my family. I have two younger brothers, but one just graduated and the other is the f*ck-up, so they have always kind of turned to me to help, whether I had a choice in the matter or not. It's compounded by the fact that I've always been a "daddy's girl"...my dad and I are very close, so it sucks to have this guilt trip from him, but I know what I have to do. I'm dragging my feet about doing it, but I do plan on removing him completely from the card.

OMG, I've thought we've had similar stories all along, and now I find out that I actually might be you!  JK, but we really have so many parallels, so I understand your pain VERY much.

Jack

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #286 on: September 04, 2015, 06:22:59 AM »
Please someone correct me if I'm wrong on this... but what's sticking out to me are the suggestions to lower the credit limit on the card.  Wouldn't that just bump up the credit utilization on the card, having a likely negative effect on both your and your fathers' credit scores?  And since he's presumably on the card as a way to help his credit, it might have the opposite effect.

High credit utilization may be bad, but paying usurious interest or defaulting because you stupidly spend more than you can afford is worse.

Also, let's all be clear about this: he's on the card so he can overspend and continue to pretend it isn't a problem. "A way to help his credit" is just his excuse.

charis

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #287 on: September 04, 2015, 08:32:21 AM »
You can have someone on your credit card as an authorized user who does not have a card issued to them to help them build credit.  If the OP's father was serious about building his credit and not using the card, he would be fine with that arrangement.  I suspect he won't be - he wants to able to use the card if he "needs" to. 

If it were me, I would call Chase and cancel the Dad's card as lost/stolen (kind of true since he won't return it at the OP's request) and do not reissue a card to him.   That way you get to keep your preferred card, Dad can't use it, and if he gives you crap about it, you are doing exactly what he asked you to do, helping him build credit. 

Embok

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #288 on: September 04, 2015, 10:43:41 AM »
Just saw this thread for the first time, and an writing to support your decision to both say no to co-signing for your brother and to cut off your dad's access to your credit.  Here's why your decision is probably right, for long term family harmony and your brother's well being too, in my humble opinion.

Had a similar situation in my family:  brother with two Ivy League degrees decided he did not want to work.  Had some relatively minor mental issues and decided he was better off not getting effective help, so he could play the parents for money, support, etc.  I did not give him money but let him live with DH and me for 9 months to get his act together; but he would not work or get therapy.  It would have been much better to say no up front than to help for a while, but have to throw him out, which we ultimately did.  (It was him or my marriage.)  Much family drama ensued. 

Parents supported him til they died, without requiring any improvement;  at last parent's funeral, brother asked where his inheritance was.  There was none:  they'd spent their money on him (mom could not let him face consequences).  I told him he could live with us for a short period of time, but only if he got effective therapy, got a job and pitched in with housework.  He did not like that, and has cut himself off, disappearing and cutting all contact.  It still hurts, but I will not enable his behavior.  I think he might have got his act together had he been allowed to fail earlier, but it's much harder to change those poor habits when you are over 50, as he is. 

So kudos for not enabling a bad system, and stick to your (metaphorical) guns.

supomglol

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #289 on: September 04, 2015, 12:31:57 PM »
I've been following this thread from the beginning.  While your approach is certainly noble; I think a white-lie would have saved you untold amounts of effort and grief. 
IT Guys might to relate to a "FAKE VIRUS ATTACK!!!"
Basically, you could have just locked your credit with the reporting agencies; removed your father from associated cards; and pretended youre identity had been stolen and that there all kinds of consequences to your credit worthiness.  Maybe you're simply never allowed to have authorized users again, you cannot co-sign for anyone's loans because of these special rules they put you under.  Whatever, you get the idea. 

It's the same way I never have a dollar to spare when someone is asking around for the purpose of feeding it to a vending machine.  Your reality is what you make it. 

Underhanded?  Perhaps.  I put a pretty high value on my sanity and emotional stability. 

TomTX

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Re: UPDATE: Parents ask me to make worst financial decision imaginable...
« Reply #290 on: September 04, 2015, 04:50:52 PM »
Thanks for the support, all! Yesterday afternoon was pretty awful, but I ended up talking to my parents later in the evening, and things are a bit better, if still not resolved.

My father explained that he felt like he was being treated like a child by being told that the cards were just going to be cut off, and felt hurt that he thought that I was saying I didn't trust him to make payments. I understand where he's coming from, but he still doesn't seem to be understanding that I don't want him using the card anymore. He keeps insisting that he'll stop using it, but that I shouldn't cancel the card.

Problem solved. He insisted he won't use it. Take him up on it.

Do what the others suggested: Have the card reissued to you only with a new number. DON'T TELL HIM!

His card is dead, but unless he lied to you he won't ever find out. Because he swore he won't use it.

If he DOES try to use it and asks you what's going on - tell him you took him at his word he wouldn't use it, so when Chase issued you a new card you didn't send him one. You can leave out that you told Chase to do so.

No conflict, problem solved.

Probably a good idea.  Hopefully your parents are not so crazy as to steal your identity and taking precaution is overkill.  But you DO NOT want to risk the consequences of finding out the hard way that they ARE crazy enough to do it. 

My MIL is that crazy. She's done this repeatedly to my wife, starting on the fraudulent cards before she was even a teen.