Author Topic: Unpaid internships -what do you think of them?  (Read 2126 times)

Hula Hoop

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Unpaid internships -what do you think of them?
« on: May 26, 2019, 03:27:54 AM »
Let me preface this by saying that I've never worked unpaid in my life.  In high school and university, I worked part time and during summers at a series of jobs.  First jobs were food service type jobs at 15-16, then waitressing, then office jobs.  I was taking student loans at university and paying most of my own expenses so I always had to work for money.

Anyway, in our office we currently have an unpaid intern.  She's great - hard working, bright and ambitious.  She works in our office a couple of days a week unpaid while she studies -so obviously her parents are paying her way.  She just told me a couple of days ago excitedly that she's "won" a spot at another prestigious internship abroad and she's really excited.  I'm excited for her too but I asked if it is paid and she said "unfortunately no."  So her parents are now going to have to fork out for her airfare, rent and living expenses in a foreign city while she works full time at a glamorous job in a glamorous city unpaid.

I have to admit this is culture shock for me.  I know that this isn't just here but also back in the US where a lot of young people are supported by family while they work unpaid internships.  There are several things that disturb me about them.  First, this kind of resume building experience is only an option for kids from families that can and are willing to financially support them which is extremely unfair.  Second, kids who are not from well to do families might have a resume like I had when I graduated college (working in the kitchens of restaurants followed by part time secretarial work) which doesn't look nearly as glam as working for these glamorous think tanks, governmental agencies, the UN etc.  Third, (and I include us in this) employers often take advantage of these unpaid workers - having them do tasks that junior office staff would have done back in the day.  This means that we are able to hire fewer paid people.  I try to give the intern tasks that are relevant to her field of study and educational in some way but sometimes someone has to do the photocopying.


So what do you as mustachians think of this whole unpaid internship thing?  Did you do one?  Would you support your kids doing one?  Do you think it skews the working world in some way?



kei te pai

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Re: Unpaid internships -what do you think of them?
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2019, 03:46:50 AM »
I think it is bad practice. For the reasons you have stated, but also from the aspect of employment law and protection of workers rights to things such as meal breaks, annual leave and safe working conditions.

Hirondelle

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Re: Unpaid internships -what do you think of them?
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2019, 04:01:24 AM »
I have mixed feelings here. I'm in academia and throughout my studies I've had 3 internships in academic labs, all were unpaid. This was the standard so I've always considered it as somewhat normal, although I do know people in other fields tend to get some 'internship salary' which is often low, but certainly helps. This is especially important for people who's internships make it impossible to do other side jobs (e.g. this is often the case for nurse interns as they have to work odd shifts).

In my case, and basically in every BSc/MSc internship in my country, the hours I spent at my internship were for credits so they basically replaced course hours. I had no problems working my regular side job (the restaurant/tutoring style jobs). When people do extracurricular jobs/internships these are paid more often, but internships demanded by the study program (very common in my country, not so much in the US, cannot speak for Italy). For my internship abroad I received some grants that covered the costs.

BeanCounter

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Re: Unpaid internships -what do you think of them?
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2019, 04:37:18 AM »
The law on this has changed significantly in the last few years in the US. Iím too lazy to post the DOL link but you can look it up. Most for profits (which would exclude academia) are paying their interns minimum wage now because the guidelines are so strict. I think this is a great change. When DH and I were in college people were still trying to get coveted unpaid internships. My husband was in broadcast journalism and it was terrible there. It does create an environment where students with money have the ability to ďbuyĒ a resume before they graduate. It also lowers entry level wages.
Terrible practice and Iím glad they are cracking down on it.

Imma

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Re: Unpaid internships -what do you think of them?
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2019, 07:04:33 AM »
I have mixed feelings here. I'm in academia and throughout my studies I've had 3 internships in academic labs, all were unpaid. This was the standard so I've always considered it as somewhat normal, although I do know people in other fields tend to get some 'internship salary' which is often low, but certainly helps. This is especially important for people who's internships make it impossible to do other side jobs (e.g. this is often the case for nurse interns as they have to work odd shifts).

In my case, and basically in every BSc/MSc internship in my country, the hours I spent at my internship were for credits so they basically replaced course hours. I had no problems working my regular side job (the restaurant/tutoring style jobs). When people do extracurricular jobs/internships these are paid more often, but internships demanded by the study program (very common in my country, not so much in the US, cannot speak for Italy). For my internship abroad I received some grants that covered the costs.

I never did any internships because it wasn't mandatory for my degree, but in my company we employ a lot of interns. They get paid  anywhere from Ä200-Ä500/month. As they need to complete assignments to get the credits they don't usually do a lot of photocopying or coffee making, although I'm sure that happens occasionally. They work mo-fri from 9 to 5, so they can keep their evening/weekend jobs.

As far as I know, in my country completely unpaid internships are only common in academia and in creative fields where there is a much bigger supply than demand. I know my sibling did a ton of internships in a creative field and it landed them a prestigious job eventually. They paid for it by working a LOT and not sleeping that much + some student loans.

I switched to working fulltime and studying parttime pretty early on in university. This means I've got a really strong resume (always worked jobs that are relevant to my degree) barely any student loans and I was able to buy a house by the time I was 24. It took me a little longer to get my degree but this also gave me the chance to figure out what I'm really good at. It's absolutely the path I would recommend to a student from a working class background who doesn't want to take on loans.

Cranky

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Re: Unpaid internships -what do you think of them?
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2019, 08:51:12 AM »
I think it excludes a lot of people.

That said, my dd did an unpaid summer internship one year when she was in college, while she lived at home. She made valuable connections and got some stellar letters of recommendation for grad school.

mistymoney

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Re: Unpaid internships -what do you think of them?
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2019, 10:21:00 AM »
It's a disgusting practice, and usually those places that don't pay put the least amount of effort into making sure the intern walks away with tangible resume bulletpoints.

That said - if that is all one can get out of the gate, perhaps better than nothing and something one can springboard off of.

John Galt incarnate!

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Re: Unpaid internships -what do you think of them?
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2019, 06:05:58 PM »


So what do you as mustachians think of this whole unpaid internship thing?  Did you do one? 

I've not participated in a paid or unpaid  intern-employer arrangement.

If I were considering  an unpaid arrangement, or someone  asked me for advice about it,  its duration would be the key determinant of its advisability.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2019, 06:11:41 PM by John Galt incarnate! »

Kyle Schuant

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Re: Unpaid internships -what do you think of them?
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2019, 10:25:46 PM »
The law in Australia is, I believe, reasonable.

https://www.fairwork.gov.au/pay/unpaid-work/work-experience-and-internships

"If the purpose of the work experience, placement or internship to give the person work experience it is less likely to be an employment relationship. But if the person is doing work to help with the ordinary operation of the business or organisation it may be an employment relationship arises. The more productive work thatís involved (rather than just observation, learning, training or skill development), the more likely it is that the personís an employee. [...]


"The person whoís doing the work should get the main benefit from the arrangement. If a business or organisation is getting the main benefit from engaging the person and their work, itís more likely the person is an employee."

So when I get an intern in my gym, they are unpaid. But they do not sweep up, find us new members or train anyone. They are there strictly to learn how to perform and coach basic barbell lifts, and learn how the industry works - there are many basic things they're not taught at trainer school, even though they paid thousands for it.

Malkynn

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Re: Unpaid internships -what do you think of them?
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2019, 02:24:46 AM »
I have no problem with unpaid work if it's part of an educational program. It's normal not to get paid for the work you do in school, and often hands-on work is critical to education.

In my office we get staff who "work" for free for a few months as part of their training. It doesn't really benefit us except when we get to cherry pick the good ones and hire them on graduation.

If the intern isn't being remunerated with formal educational credits, then it's not an internship, it's a job and it should be paid.

Linea_Norway

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Re: Unpaid internships -what do you think of them?
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2019, 05:44:46 AM »
My study was based on 2 years of full time schooling and after that 4 days a week working internships at companies and 1 day at school. My schooling grant from the government was reduced a lot during those last 3 years. I always got paid at least a little bit, but this was far under minimum pay, more a sort of pocket money. The reason was that I was there to learn and did not do the job of the other employees, but some other project that the company otherwise would not have done/prioritized. I think my parents would not have appreciated to pay completely for my maintenance, as it was my choice to do a study that wouldn't pay out full grant for all the years.

So my opinion is that if an intern is really being very productive, the person should get paid. But if the person is there primarily to learn and the other personnel needs to invest time in them, then working for free could be a good solution for a certain period. As soon as the intern is so well trained that he/she becomes a productive employee, he/she should be getting paid decently.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Unpaid internships -what do you think of them?
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2019, 05:53:43 AM »
To me an internship is part of course work.  In the CEGEP system many of the technical programs have an internship component.  They are courses, with grades.  The students get into to refine their skills in a job setting.  They are evaluated by their supervisors on site, in conjunction with the college supervisor.  Internships are usually local, and may or may not lead to jobs.  When I ran our internship program we looked at student interests and requirements, internship site needs and requirements, and worked hard to match up the 2. The internship location is not paying the student, but they have costs as well, both in materials and in staff time.  Most places told me they figured they basically broke even - the work the students did usually came close to making up for the expenses of the internship location. 

An internship that is not part of a course load is just working for free.

Cassie

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Re: Unpaid internships -what do you think of them?
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2019, 12:37:06 PM »
When I was getting my masters in social work the accreditation board  for colleges didnít allow us to be paid. I had to work part time 20 hours a week for free for 2 years back in 1988. No clue if this has changed.

Fishindude

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Re: Unpaid internships -what do you think of them?
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2019, 12:59:06 PM »
I would never encourage a kid to take an unpaid internship.
Pretty low down of a company or entity to have a kid in their working and not pay them something.

MayDay

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Re: Unpaid internships -what do you think of them?
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2019, 07:03:06 PM »
I find unpaid internships awful for all the reasons stated.

That said I have an intern this summer for the first time, and holy balls, it would be way more efficient for me to just do her project!  SO I can see why they came about to some extent.

I still don't agree with them.  But my company pretty much acknowledges them to be a long job interview, with no expectation that they produce useful work.

gooki

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Re: Unpaid internships -what do you think of them?
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2019, 03:19:05 AM »
Unpaid internships are a form of modern day slavery and should be abolished.

Car Jack

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Re: Unpaid internships -what do you think of them?
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2019, 08:49:51 AM »
It should be illegal.  It would be fitting for a ruling to come down that forces all companies who have taken advantage of these kids for no pay to have to pay them at say double minimum wage for every hour they worked, plus pay the government payroll taxes.

I worked co-op when in college and made good money.  I did it specifically because I had run out of money and needed it to continue in college.  My son did an internship last summer and was paid well.  While he did learn a ton, he was one of maybe 1% who was given an actual engineering role.  He spent his time doing stress analysis while the majority of the interns got coffee and took notes at meetings, learning nothing.  But at least it was paid.

GuitarStv

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Re: Unpaid internships -what do you think of them?
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2019, 08:52:15 AM »
I think they're great for companies, and for rich kids.  Companies get workers for nothing, rich kids can afford to work for free and get experience and better resumes . . . so they're able to get jobs with less competition from others who might be smarter/better.

They really fuck students who don't have much money though.

Cranky

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Re: Unpaid internships -what do you think of them?
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2019, 09:00:20 AM »
Now that I think about it, my youngest dd just finished a full time internship for her program. Not only was it unpaid, she had to pay tuition for it. That actually seems even harder on low-income students because you really canít work to support yourself and itís required to graduate.

Cool Friend

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Re: Unpaid internships -what do you think of them?
« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2019, 09:10:48 AM »
The only way to get your foot in the door of the industry I went to college for was by taking on unpaid, full-time internships. Not coming from a family of money, I couldn't take these internships because I had to work to survive, even during college. So the limited internship spots went to my colleagues who could afford to work for free. Which meant that, with professional experience on their resume, they were first in line for the paying ground-level jobs out of college. Those ground-level jobs got them connections, which helped build their career.  All while I continued to apply to ground level jobs that I would always lose to people who could afford to have gotten their foot in the door with the internships. Didn't seen to matter how much independent work and DIY experience I built in the meantime--I just didn't have the right names on my resume.

After a while, I became too old to apply to the ground-level jobs any more (no one was hiring someone 5-10 years out of school without that internship experience), and anything higher up was of course completely out of the question. Eventually I had to stop lying to myself that hard work and tenacity would eventually let me in the door, and I have since called it quits.

It was a somewhat rarefied arts industry, but it was the thing I was best at, most passionate about, and worked hardest at to diversify and sharpen my skill set throughout the years. Didn't matter though, because the unpaid internship gatekeeping system created a domino effect that excluded me from anything but the occasional freelance job.

Obviously it's personal for me, but I know I'm not the only one shut out because of this system. I think they should be illegal.

BlueHouse

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Re: Unpaid internships -what do you think of them?
« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2019, 09:25:20 AM »
I don't like them for all the reasons listed above. 
I live in DC and most congressional staffers start out as unpaid interns.  Obviously, the people whose families can afford to support them are the ones who end up getting these positions, then getting first crack at the paid positions, etc. 
I've been trying to even out the score a little bit by taking in temporary workers for little or no rent until they can get situated.  So far, I've had family members, a former neighbor's brother's daughter, and now someone else related by distant marriage. Each of these people already had things working in their favor, simply by their connections to someone who lives in a house close to the Capitol, with extra bedrooms.  Each time I bring someone else in for a short period, or a few months, I can't help thinking about all the people who never get these opportunities simply because they can't afford or don't know people who can help. 

Hula Hoop

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Re: Unpaid internships -what do you think of them?
« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2019, 01:08:05 PM »
Cool Friend -what industry is that, if you don't mind me asking? 

Did you guys read about the New Zealander who did an unpaid internship at the UN in Geneva and lived in a tent?  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33893384

Linea_Norway

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Re: Unpaid internships -what do you think of them?
« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2019, 12:42:09 AM »
Cool Friend -what industry is that, if you don't mind me asking? 

Did you guys read about the New Zealander who did an unpaid internship at the UN in Geneva and lived in a tent?  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33893384

Nice that this malpractice is hung out in the media.
If you don't provide an intern with any money, then maybe you should offer them a place to sleep and free food. Just an extra building on site where the interns can sleep in a bunk bed or so.

Imma

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Re: Unpaid internships -what do you think of them?
« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2019, 01:55:06 AM »
Now that I think about it, my youngest dd just finished a full time internship for her program. Not only was it unpaid, she had to pay tuition for it. That actually seems even harder on low-income students because you really canít work to support yourself and itís required to graduate.

In my company, we have a lot of this type of interns. They do assignments for credits so the work they do is relevant for their education. The interns pay tuition, we pay them some money to cover tuition and travel costs + we also pay a fee to the school to get an intern. Interns are supposed to work under constant supervision so it's far from free labour for is.

I fail to see how doing this type of internship (as opposed to a voluntary internship over the summer holidays) prevents a student from working. Instead of being in a classroom from 9 to 5 and then working a job during evenings and weekends, they are at our company from 9 to 5. They can still work their side job if they want to.

There's also a legal reason why we can't pay interns more than we do: in my country,  if the money they make is comparable to a wage, then they are no longer interns but regular employees and all the rules that apply to employees, apply to them, from minimum wage to liability. That's not what we want.

Of course this only applies to formal internships for credits. I don't believe in voluntary internships. If I were hiring I would also be a bit sceptical if someone had several unpaid internships on their resume. It seems to me that anyone with some college on their resume and a healthy work ethic should be able to find paid employment in their field as a summer or side job. Unpaid internships to me kind of sounds like 'rich people's kid who can't find paid employment'.

expatartist

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Re: Unpaid internships -what do you think of them?
« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2019, 02:07:24 AM »
The only way to get your foot in the door of the industry I went to college for was by taking on unpaid, full-time internships.
...
It was a somewhat rarefied arts industry, but it was the thing I was best at, most passionate about, and worked hardest at to diversify and sharpen my skill set throughout the years. Didn't matter though, because the unpaid internship gatekeeping system created a domino effect that excluded me from anything but the occasional freelance job.

Obviously it's personal for me, but I know I'm not the only one shut out because of this system. I think they should be illegal.

True in every aspect of the arts machine which thrives on unpaid labor, particularly that done by women. In the arts, orgs tend to appreciate staff from wealthy families as it builds links with future potential donations.

GuitarStv

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Re: Unpaid internships -what do you think of them?
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2019, 07:08:52 AM »
Cool Friend -what industry is that, if you don't mind me asking? 

Did you guys read about the New Zealander who did an unpaid internship at the UN in Geneva and lived in a tent?  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33893384

Nice that this malpractice is hung out in the media.
If you don't provide an intern with any money, then maybe you should offer them a place to sleep and free food. Just an extra building on site where the interns can sleep in a bunk bed or so.

Unpaid interns aren't slaves!  So they don't have to be treated as well as you would treat a slave.  :P

Malkynn

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Re: Unpaid internships -what do you think of them?
« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2019, 07:17:26 AM »
Cool Friend -what industry is that, if you don't mind me asking? 

Did you guys read about the New Zealander who did an unpaid internship at the UN in Geneva and lived in a tent?  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33893384

Nice that this malpractice is hung out in the media.
If you don't provide an intern with any money, then maybe you should offer them a place to sleep and free food. Just an extra building on site where the interns can sleep in a bunk bed or so.

Unpaid interns aren't slaves!  So they don't have to be treated as well as you would treat a slave.  :P

True.
Slaves were often property that were actually paid for, had significant value and could be resold. Interns are free.

John Galt incarnate!

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Re: Unpaid internships -what do you think of them?
« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2019, 07:56:51 AM »


In my office we get staff who "work" for free for a few months as part of their training.



I don't know much about internships.

  Last week I  posted that for me the acceptability of an unpaid internship would turn on its duration.

A maximum duration of a few months seems reasonable to me when the intern is a new trainee who is learning skills, becoming familiar w/ the workplace, etc.





« Last Edit: May 29, 2019, 08:37:52 AM by John Galt incarnate! »

John Galt incarnate!

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Re: Unpaid internships -what do you think of them?
« Reply #28 on: May 29, 2019, 08:46:11 AM »
When I was getting my masters in social work the accreditation board  for colleges didn’t allow us to be paid. I had to work part time 20 hours a week for free for 2 years back in 1988. No clue if this has changed.

52 X 20 X 2 = 2080 hours.

What was the function of the accreditation board?

Did it certify colleges or did it certify your master's degree?

EDIT: I assume that the  accreditation board is a creature of the state.

 An  individual  is free to choose, to accept or reject,  the terms of an intern-employer agreement  offered by a non-governmental employer.

A person who must have  a governmental entity's accreditation, certification, or licensure to work in a certain occupation does not have this choice

A state accreditation board grossly overreaches when directly or indirectly, its mandate(s) results in compelling  an individual  seeking accreditation, certification, or licensure to  do unpaid work for an entire year.

If I were faced with such a statist compulsion I would sue the accreditation board. 

A mandate of 52 weeks of unpaid work is state-sanctioned slavery.

« Last Edit: June 04, 2019, 10:57:59 AM by John Galt incarnate! »

Malkynn

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Re: Unpaid internships -what do you think of them?
« Reply #29 on: May 29, 2019, 09:35:17 AM »


In my office we get staff who "work" for free for a few months as part of their training.



I don't know much about internships.

  Last week I  posted that for me the acceptability of an unpaid internship would turn on its duration.

A maximum duration of a few months seems reasonable to me when the intern is a new trainee who is learning skills, becoming familiar w/ the workplace, etc.

The unpaid workers I mentioned only do a few months because a few months is all they need in order to be competent. If they needed more training, then their programs would involve more training.

Again, I think it depends on whether or not it's part of a formal education program.
I did 2 years of unpaid work as part of my training, other programs involved 3 years, and that was considered an asset of their programs. It's normal/critical in most medical training to do supervised/mentored work as part of the program. I'm sure it's the same in a lot of other industries that require hands-on training for competence.

I would have happily done more free work as part of my education, and now I pay $1000-2000/day for courses with just a little bit of hands-on component.

It all comes down to the benefit.

willjj90

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Re: Unpaid internships -what do you think of them?
« Reply #30 on: May 30, 2019, 02:36:50 PM »
I personally think unpaid internships are cool.. when the person did not or does not go to college and have debt (weather it be theirs or someone else's)

I do think companies take advantage of this opportunity at times, but it is what it is.

You can gain a lot from getting REAL, hands on experience, enough that sometimes that is single-handily enough to where someone might not need any schooling.

Goldielocks

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Re: Unpaid internships -what do you think of them?
« Reply #31 on: June 03, 2019, 01:43:14 AM »
@Imma I think you make a good point.... however here students are not in class 9 to 5...   even the full time students have classes only 15 hours per week for full time (the arts students), plus the hours needed to study on their own schedule (varies, but usually around a part time job).

Of interest, is that here, the main unpaid internships are for the governemtn associated roles.  It is illegal to be unpaid unless you are in a program / course at a school (usuallly only 8 weeks, part time heavily supervised work, think of a student teacher), or you are in a non-profit where they would normally have an unpaid volunteer... or you are in government - my sister had 10 month internship full time as a Respitory Therapist at a hospital.  Unpaid, she had to pay for her school advisor, actually who oversaw her paper.   She said that after 3 months she was doing 80% plus of the regular RT job, unsupervised most days.  Very little learning happening.   in contract, nurse "interns" were paid minimum wages or better.   

I thought this was horrible as my engineering co-op was well paid AND I got education credit for it (wrote a report / paid the fee for an advisor, but earned a lot more money in my 4-8 month practicum)

I think all interns (other than volunteer non profit replacements) should be paid.

dogboyslim

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Re: Unpaid internships -what do you think of them?
« Reply #32 on: June 03, 2019, 11:47:11 AM »
My company pays interns $18-25 per hour.  They get no benefits (since they only work a limited time, they are considered "temporary employees" legally, which allows not including benefits), but they work 40 hour weeks, get all the mandatory breaks, and if they do work overtime, get time & a half (or double if it is on holiday).  Overtime is never approved, and laptops are not allowed to leave the building to avoid them working at night without coding the time.  I can't imagine trying to convince anyone to take an internship like those at my company without getting paid, and paid well.  We do not offer education credits.

At the same time, one of the non-profits I work with has a "internship" that isn't paid.  It is a volunteer position (ie unpaid).  They like to have someone work there 25 hours per week helping with paperwork, filing and some of the logistics around moving things from site to site.  They are covered for WC somehow, but I don't understand it.  They only call it an internship because traditionally its HS & College kids home on summer break that fill it, and by calling it an internship it helps them with their resume's.  I have no problem with this type of internship.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2019, 11:53:55 AM by dogboyslim »

Imma

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Re: Unpaid internships -what do you think of them?
« Reply #33 on: June 03, 2019, 11:58:41 AM »
@Imma I think you make a good point.... however here students are not in class 9 to 5...   even the full time students have classes only 15 hours per week for full time (the arts students), plus the hours needed to study on their own schedule (varies, but usually around a part time job).

Of interest, is that here, the main unpaid internships are for the governemtn associated roles.  It is illegal to be unpaid unless you are in a program / course at a school (usuallly only 8 weeks, part time heavily supervised work, think of a student teacher), or you are in a non-profit where they would normally have an unpaid volunteer... or you are in government - my sister had 10 month internship full time as a Respitory Therapist at a hospital.  Unpaid, she had to pay for her school advisor, actually who oversaw her paper.   She said that after 3 months she was doing 80% plus of the regular RT job, unsupervised most days.  Very little learning happening.   in contract, nurse "interns" were paid minimum wages or better.   

I thought this was horrible as my engineering co-op was well paid AND I got education credit for it (wrote a report / paid the fee for an advisor, but earned a lot more money in my 4-8 month practicum)

I think all interns (other than volunteer non profit replacements) should be paid.

I don't think most students don't spend 40 hours in the classroom either, but because schedules change every few weeks and on short notice, so few students will work jobs that require them to work during school hours. Of course, in the US education is much more expensive than it is here so I guess a lot of people will have to work a lot to pay for their education and their living costs.

@dogboyslim this sounds like a fantastic opportunity for college students, but how is this an internship? If they are paid a good wage and don't get college credits, aren't you just offering a temporary junior position to a college student, like many companies do? I had jobs like that in college but they're on my resume as regular jobs.

dogboyslim

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Re: Unpaid internships -what do you think of them?
« Reply #34 on: June 03, 2019, 12:17:21 PM »
@Imma.  They are internships mostly due to industry nomenclature here in the US.  They are also internships vs. "jobs" because they are slanted to 80% specific work on their project, and 20% learning about the business, leadership, networking and other skills they will need in the working world.  If it were strictly a job, that 20% would mostly go away.

By the River

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Re: Unpaid internships -what do you think of them?
« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2019, 07:03:42 AM »
My college sophomore started his internship yesterday.  It pays a little more than minimum wage.  Worked from 10-5, came home, changed clothes, ate a quick sandwich and then went to his part-time job from 6-10.  To me, the major difference is that the internship will look good on the resume.  Of course, he doesn't work 12 hour days during the school year.

I don't think that he would work an unpaid internship now.  Maybe immediately before graduating would make sense but he would still have to work a paid job as well. 

Hula Hoop

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Re: Unpaid internships -what do you think of them?
« Reply #36 on: June 04, 2019, 10:49:17 AM »
By the River - if his internship pays then that's a different thing IMO.

aetheldrea

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Re: Unpaid internships -what do you think of them?
« Reply #37 on: June 08, 2019, 11:32:16 AM »
It used to be that if you were poor, you would have to drop out of high school and get a job. So the high school diploma was used as a job requirement (even for jobs that required little thinking) to keep poor people from getting the good jobs and having it be their own fault.
Then as the country got richer and EVERYONE graduated high school, the college diploma was used.
Now that even poor people can go to college, unpaid internships are used, so that only people from the richest families that can afford to work for free for a year or whatever, will have access to the best jobs.
And if you are poor, and you need to work to have money to live, instead of being rich enough to goof off for years at college and then an unpaid internship, you won't get hired and it is your own fault, because you couldn't meet the job requirements. Same as always, just the most recent mechanism for discriminating against poor people and keeping them in their place.