Trying to Convince Wife to Walk/Bike to Work

[partgypsy]

Yes I don't think if a pizza deliverer was held up they would be accused of being weak or living in fear. Stuff happens. I was mugged when I lived in the city, and fortunately I instinctively acted (smashing him in the nose upward direction) so I was unharmed and got away. But I do feel I was lucky. If someone seriously wants to do you harm, and has surprise or a weapon on their side, limited options.
I also think that women, or really anyone should use their intuition and leave a situation they don't feel safe. I don't care if I look wimpy doing that, it's my body. 

[frugaliknowit]

I think your wife is a "wuss", but not everyone was raised to be "tough" like us.  Don't force it.  Buy/fix the cheapest car possible.  Maybe next spring, start riding the route with her.  It's too late in the season to do "toughness training".

[Gin1984]

Women are taught that they are vulnerable, especially alone, outside, after dark. Many women accept this teaching, and never do anything to make it better. They limit their activities, hunch their shoulders against the cat-calls, and live in fear of certain juxtapositions. But why not learn to kick some righteous ass, instead. There's nothing like successfully gouging an attacker's eye out to make you feel safe.

Am I the only one who found this statement upsetting? The first two sentences, to me, read as saying (i) our fears are learned, not real and (ii) to any (debatable) extent our fears are real, we are partly to blame for not learning self defense. This comes very close to victim blaming for me, and I wanted to speak out against that. It's also ludicrously unrealistic to think that all women can just "learn to kick some righteous ass" and will thereby be able to "feel safe". Think about the possible physical differences between an aggressor and a victim, and remember that a very very common reaction in people who are being physically attacked is to literally freeze up out of fear - it's called tonic immobility and has been well documented e.g. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2015/06/23/why-many-rape-victims-dont-fight-or-yell/

Hey annajane83, I'm sorry if I didn't get the tone of my post quite right. Victim blaming was actually the complete opposite of what I was trying to post. I think self defense classes are very empowering, and I encourage them for all.

I'm kinda of split mind on this one.  I've spent many years fighting . . . boxing, kickboxing, judo, jiu-jitsu, etc.  Martial arts are great, a lot of fun, get you into excellent shape, and can help you to control a dangerous situation.  That said, one thing that I've learned is that pure size and strength matter in a fight.  A lot.

Your average woman is smaller than a man.  Women are objectively weaker when it comes to absolute strength.  You combine this with the element of surprise (only the attacker really knows when an attack is coming), and you have a bad situation.  Martial arts training can help . . . but put a two hundred pound guy in the ring with a one hundred pound guy, and regardless of the skill that the little guy has it only takes one lucky punch to put him down hard.

Couple that with some very ineffective classes that I've seen sold to women as 'self defense', and I'm a little concerned that someone might get an inflated sense of empowerment that leads to poor safety decision making.

I just earned Black in American Kenpo.

I am a woman.

I agree with this 100%

I can take out men that are twice my size, but they would not have a knee that worked real well afterward. Or they would lose a eyeball. There is a ton a woman could do in a situation. But they have to be confident enough to take out a knee or a eyeball (neither are hard BTW) and if they are not...the likeliness of hitting the guy right wont happen.

Side note sparing those MMA young 20 something guys is way too much fun. Sparing their ego (and winning when the guy is 3x my size) is the most entertaining thing I have ever done. Considering I am female, mid 30's and look like I have no idea what I am doing.

That assumes they don't take you by suppose or assume there is not more than one of them.  I agree that with training many women could do serious damage, but that assumes awareness of the threat.

[Goldielocks]

Women are taught that they are vulnerable, especially alone, outside, after dark. Many women accept this teaching, and never do anything to make it better. They limit their activities, hunch their shoulders against the cat-calls, and live in fear of certain juxtapositions. But why not learn to kick some righteous ass, instead. There's nothing like successfully gouging an attacker's eye out to make you feel safe.

Am I the only one who found this statement upsetting? The first two sentences, to me, read as saying (i) our fears are learned, not real and (ii) to any (debatable) extent our fears are real, we are partly to blame for not learning self defense. This comes very close to victim blaming for me, and I wanted to speak out against that. It's also ludicrously unrealistic to think that all women can just "learn to kick some righteous ass" and will thereby be able to "feel safe". Think about the possible physical differences between an aggressor and a victim, and remember that a very very common reaction in people who are being physically attacked is to literally freeze up out of fear - it's called tonic immobility and has been well documented e.g. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2015/06/23/why-many-rape-victims-dont-fight-or-yell/

Well said.  Good butt kick all around.

[Sailor Sam]

Women are taught that they are vulnerable, especially alone, outside, after dark. Many women accept this teaching, and never do anything to make it better. They limit their activities, hunch their shoulders against the cat-calls, and live in fear of certain juxtapositions. But why not learn to kick some righteous ass, instead. There's nothing like successfully gouging an attacker's eye out to make you feel safe.

Am I the only one who found this statement upsetting? The first two sentences, to me, read as saying (i) our fears are learned, not real and (ii) to any (debatable) extent our fears are real, we are partly to blame for not learning self defense. This comes very close to victim blaming for me, and I wanted to speak out against that. It's also ludicrously unrealistic to think that all women can just "learn to kick some righteous ass" and will thereby be able to "feel safe". Think about the possible physical differences between an aggressor and a victim, and remember that a very very common reaction in people who are being physically attacked is to literally freeze up out of fear - it's called tonic immobility and has been well documented e.g. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2015/06/23/why-many-rape-victims-dont-fight-or-yell/

Well said.  Good butt kick all around.

Wait, did my butt just get kicked? Not very fair, considering my next post.

[seemsright]

Women are taught that they are vulnerable, especially alone, outside, after dark. Many women accept this teaching, and never do anything to make it better. They limit their activities, hunch their shoulders against the cat-calls, and live in fear of certain juxtapositions. But why not learn to kick some righteous ass, instead. There's nothing like successfully gouging an attacker's eye out to make you feel safe.

Am I the only one who found this statement upsetting? The first two sentences, to me, read as saying (i) our fears are learned, not real and (ii) to any (debatable) extent our fears are real, we are partly to blame for not learning self defense. This comes very close to victim blaming for me, and I wanted to speak out against that. It's also ludicrously unrealistic to think that all women can just "learn to kick some righteous ass" and will thereby be able to "feel safe". Think about the possible physical differences between an aggressor and a victim, and remember that a very very common reaction in people who are being physically attacked is to literally freeze up out of fear - it's called tonic immobility and has been well documented e.g. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2015/06/23/why-many-rape-victims-dont-fight-or-yell/

Hey annajane83, I'm sorry if I didn't get the tone of my post quite right. Victim blaming was actually the complete opposite of what I was trying to post. I think self defense classes are very empowering, and I encourage them for all.

I'm kinda of split mind on this one.  I've spent many years fighting . . . boxing, kickboxing, judo, jiu-jitsu, etc.  Martial arts are great, a lot of fun, get you into excellent shape, and can help you to control a dangerous situation.  That said, one thing that I've learned is that pure size and strength matter in a fight.  A lot.

Your average woman is smaller than a man.  Women are objectively weaker when it comes to absolute strength.  You combine this with the element of surprise (only the attacker really knows when an attack is coming), and you have a bad situation.  Martial arts training can help . . . but put a two hundred pound guy in the ring with a one hundred pound guy, and regardless of the skill that the little guy has it only takes one lucky punch to put him down hard.

Couple that with some very ineffective classes that I've seen sold to women as 'self defense', and I'm a little concerned that someone might get an inflated sense of empowerment that leads to poor safety decision making.

I just earned Black in American Kenpo.

I am a woman.

I agree with this 100%

I can take out men that are twice my size, but they would not have a knee that worked real well afterward. Or they would lose a eyeball. There is a ton a woman could do in a situation. But they have to be confident enough to take out a knee or a eyeball (neither are hard BTW) and if they are not...the likeliness of hitting the guy right wont happen.

Side note sparing those MMA young 20 something guys is way too much fun. Sparing their ego (and winning when the guy is 3x my size) is the most entertaining thing I have ever done. Considering I am female, mid 30's and look like I have no idea what I am doing.

That assumes they don't take you by suppose or assume there is not more than one of them.  I agree that with training many women could do serious damage, but that assumes awareness of the threat.

American Kenpo is all about multiple attackers and being aware of your surroundings. But it took me nearly 15 years to get my black. And the average person is not going to spend that much time and effort to get to the point where I am.  The general self defense class is great but does not go into depth about multiple attackers and being aware of your surroundings. How many times do you see a person walking down the street looking at their phone? It is crazy to me.

[MsPeacock]

Handle your own car and commute situation and let your wife do what she wants.

+1 - just how much "savings" are we talking here? Women have a much high sensitivity to safety and awareness of their vulnerability. At this time of year is she going to/coming from work in the dark? Men give basically zero thought to sexual assault and women give basically daily thought to it.  Just let her drive for gosh' s sake.

[darkadams00]

Daily bike commuter here. Wife = occasional bike commuter and rarely if it's "cold" (and I'm talking > 0 degrees in NC winter). In winter I am 1 of 2-3 cyclists in a building of 500+ people. Everyone acts like I'm Bear Grylls on wheels (that and because I take long vacations to go long-distance hiking). Many ask questions and think it's cool, but none care to try for a myriad of reasons/excuses.

My point? A person's personality plays a huge role in these decisions. I have a somewhat adventurous personality, and I like the challenge of pushing myself in less conventional situations. My wife? Not so much. I don't mind being cold in the first 5-10 mins of a ride. My wife does. I don't mind getting wet on the commute. My wife does.

We went car-light a few years ago (1 car for 2 drivers). My idea to try, but we did it on MY back because any other way would have been presumptuous. I bike commute always. She gets first dibs on the car. I even figured out how to catch 2 buses to the next town for 2 days of jury duty. I rent a car for the occasional need when we HAVE to use 2 cars at the same time.

I don't even suggest new bike commuters to try to start in the winter. Wait until spring. In your case, learn which battles are worth fighting. When you can put your butt out on the cold pavement, then do it. Maybe she'll follow. Maybe she won't. In your OP and in your  follow-up, you described your wife and didn't use a single descriptor to make me think she is currently of a mind or personality to inconvenience herself over this one-mile commute. Less talking, more doing is the only chance, and that still seems like a long shot given what you've said thus far.

Good luck.