To Inherit or Not to Inherit

[mm1970]

Is it worth fighting over? Unless your share of the house will substantially improve your life, I would just let them have it. I don't care enough about money (that I didn't personally earn) to fight over an inheritance.

It seems like a mess, and these things often are.

I wouldn't actually "fight" over it at all, but I would - as others are recommending - ask for a very careful accounting from the estate - the value of the estate, the amounts that were paid out to your mother (there should be records of all of this).

I mean, though I did not have to pay taxes, I did have to record the inheritances that I received when my grandfather's estate and my father's will were both settled.  You definitely want to make sure that everything is on the up and up legally - to protect yourself, if for no other reason.  After that, do what you want.  Keep it, give it back, whatever.

[mm1970]

Her current claim is she did so much for my mom, grandparents, their house,  the house should be hers.

Well, but that's not what the will says.

[Rosy]

I think whoever said the aunts basically divided the estate between themselves was right. Which is legally and morally wrong!
The only hiccup is that they can't clear the title to the house.
If they already screwed you over royally then you might not be inclined to be so generous in just letting them have the house.

You are not less than - just get full disclosure from the probate court and follow the money.
How is it even possible that one aunt already claimed her inheritance without you even knowing about it?
Is the other aunt claiming the house since her kid is living in it?

That is a fine state of affairs indeed! ... and now they want to guilt you into going along with their machinations? Gutsy!
Unacceptable!

Just don't sign a thing until you know exactly what is happening here and how much money is really at stake - then you go from there.
Breathe:). Don't make their drama your drama. You have done nothing wrong - at all.
You are entitled to your inheritance whether your aunts like it or not - period.

Take your time to mull it over once you have the full picture. Do not be too quick to give up what is legally yours.
You can always gift something back once you are a bit more removed from the drama and can think clearly.

You've got the power here - not them, which is exactly what this is all about, power, money - retribution, arrogance, entitlement - guilt trips - SHEESH.
Just get the facts from probate.

[Villanelle]

Also, consider the fact that cousin has been living there rent-free for several years.  I the aunt's want special consideration for themselves, it seems like they've already gotten it, without permission.  If you and your brother wanted to get nasty, you could probably purse 1/3 of FMV rent.  The executor had an obligation to settle the estate efficiently (failed) and to ensure fair use of the assets (failed). She didn't have the right to set up zero income on a potential income-earning asset.  So, consider YEARS of free rent on a property on which you and your brother are 1/3 owners as their compensation for whatever it is they are claiming they did that makes them owed something. 

[Rosy]

YES - you own 1/3 of the property, therefore 1/3 of the rent is yours.
YES - years of simply "taking" does not make it right or legal.
The executor should have set up an account with rent payments due to you - each month - for years already.

I think they have taken enough on the sly by now, not to mention the rent-free nephew.
You have nothing to be guilty about.
You know damn well, that regardless of how generous you will be - this is family drama - and nothing will ever be "enough" for them.

[Omy]

Your grandparents EXPRESSLY wanted your mother (or her heirs) to get 1/3 of the estate. If I were your grandparents, I would be furious if I found out that my children were bullying my grandchildren out of their fair share. I agree with most posters here - it's probably much more than just the value of the house.

In almost every family, there is one kid who struggles more than the others - and parents handle that in different ways. If your mother had a traditional disease, it would be shocking if her siblings were arguing that her need for health care should somehow invalidate your share of the estate. Your grandparents choice was to care for your mother and her children. Please respect their last wishes. You can always donate the money if that feels better to you.

[oldtoyota]

There was a will and everything went in thirds.

As far as other assets, I don't know what else is out there. I truly have no clue. One of my aunts did all their bills.

The house is probably worth 120k. There is nothing owed on. My grandparents paid it in full probably 25 years ago.

There was no provision for payment for my mom. She just wasn't stable and they enabled her. For many, many years.

I think they are saying we aren't entitled to her share. They are wanting us to sign it off saying everything is good.

I would not sign it away without knowing facts like the full value of the estate.

[mistymoney]

Also, consider the fact that cousin has been living there rent-free for several years.  I the aunt's want special consideration for themselves, it seems like they've already gotten it, without permission. If you and your brother wanted to get nasty, you could probably purse 1/3 of FMV rent.  The executor had an obligation to settle the estate efficiently (failed) and to ensure fair use of the assets (failed). She didn't have the right to set up zero income on a potential income-earning asset.  So, consider YEARS of free rent on a property on which you and your brother are 1/3 owners as their compensation for whatever it is they are claiming they did that makes them owed something.

ya!

[Bee21]

From an outsider's point of view, your aunts are trying to trick you/guilt you into signing your inheritance away. What they are doing to you and your brother is not only illegal (as executor of a will they have legal responsibilities)  but also highly immoral. It all looks very dodgy. Don't let them guilt you or manipulate you. They chose to support your mother, it has nothing to do with you inheriting from the grandparents.

I would politely request the details of the inheritance and my share. End of story. Just because they feel entitled to the whole estate it does not mean they are. You and your brother are also entitled to it.Worst case scenario, seek legal advice. And definitely claim your inheritance.

[snacky]

Wow. This sucks. I'm sorry you've had so much recent loss, and have had these family shenanigans. I know what I would do, but you have your own values, so my opinion is moot.

[Telecaster]

They aren't contesting our portion. I don't think they can. We haven't received anything. They are wanting us to waive our portion as of way of showing "gratitude."

Screw that.  She was your mom, but their sister.  They chose to help out a family member. 

[Cassie]

This entire situation makes me suspicious that there is more money at stake than just the house.

[Retiring_early_in_EastTN]

So, just an update....

I met with a lawyer two weeks ago and he called their lawyer asking them to produce an accounting statement. We received that today and basically it was a typed up piece of paper with the distribution of what money my grandparents had which was about 115k before the house. It showed my mom receiving  the 20k for the house and that, if the house sold for an estimated 100k she would be due 36k. There were no bank statements. This came from the estate lawyer. It had a proposed distribution of 2500 to the executor (my aunt assigned herself as executor) and showed paying off my grandmother's debts, tombstone, etc of 41k. Of course, again there was no bank statements so I don't know where that money exactly went.

At this point, I don't know what to do. Is it worth it to go after 36k (if that is really what it is) or should I ask them to actually produce bank statements or do my brother and I let them buy us out of the house and we collect our roughly 18k each?

I mean legally we are entitled to it and there is no way they can get out of it.

Part of me wants to take it and go because of how they've been towards us through this and other things in years past and had little to no contact with us since these deaths have occurred. Part of me knows they bailed my mom out of situations and that could have had an even worse impact on us as kids that what we already had to deal with.

I just don't know. I'm at a loss right now. 18k would most certainly help a few things in mine and my brother's life and both my aunts are successful and financially smart people. They are not hurting for money. I'm frustrated that they would even put us in this situation without any lack of regard for wanting us to be a part of something left behind by my grandparents and I'm hurt at their lack of caring and treating us like we are so undeserving and unworthy almost.......

Any thoughts, advice, past experiences, other views would be appreciated.....

[mozar]

I think you need to take a break from thinking about it and take a walk in the woods.

[former player]

I would ask your lawyer to ask for a copy of the accounts as certified by a lawyer or accountant.

Once the accounts are finalised I would probably say "we loved and miss our grandmother, we would like to respect her last wishes."

[LaineyAZ]

I would ask your lawyer to ask for a copy of the accounts as certified by a lawyer or accountant.

Once the accounts are finalised I would probably say "we loved and miss our grandmother, we would like to respect her last wishes."

Ditto.  You know who else got away with sending typed copies of supposed account balances?  Bernie Madoff.  (laws have since been changed, thankfully.)
You, via your attorney, have every right to see actual bank statements.  The self-appointed executor is either being lazy or deliberately sloppy, but either way there is no excuse.  Should be very simple.

[Pizzabrewer]

What did your lawyer think of the document they produced?  What’s his advice?

[GizmoTX]

I'd want to see bank statements. The fact that you haven't been provided any is suspicious. What you received is worthless.

How did your aunt assign herself as executor? This is supposed to be stated in the will.

Do not give them your inheritance.

[koshtra]

I'd just politely decline to give my share away, and let law and nature take its course. If there was a shred of evidence that the testators intended some other result, that would be another story. But the fact that some of the legatees wish they had been left more is... well, just the way things often are.

[TVRodriguez]

A formal accounting does not usually include bank statements in my jurisdiction, but I don't know based on what OP wrote whether he received a formal accounting.  A formal estate accounting usually has certain schedules listing assets, income, disbursements, distributions, things like that.  Those things are usually drawn from the bank statements, but it need not actually include the bank statements.  Usually, if you do not accept the accounting, you can ask for more information.  You can also challenge the accounting in court, which can cost you more than you are due based on what you've received.  If I were you, personally, I'd seriously consider accepting the accounting and accepting the $18,000 that I am due.

[frugaliknowit]

Sorry, typing it out on a piece of paper WILL NOT DO!  That's ridiculous!

[BicycleB]

Like others, I think you can get a better accounting than that, if what you got was what I imagine from your description. And I think a clear accounting should set the mind at ease. Certainly it's missing the supporting documentation, and I suspect you're within your rights to ask for that. But I think you're almost done.

Based on your description, what you are proposed to receive is reasonable...assuming you are willing to accept your cousin getting free rent, when probably you and your brother are technically entitled to a portion of the forgone rent. I'm not a lawyer, so just guessing (I think some of the other commenters ARE lawyers...). From what I think you said, it went like this:

Original estate
115k financial assets
100k house (estimated)
-----
215k
-   2.5k executor fee (not crazy...though 2500 makes me wonder if it's 1% of 250k, and 35k wasn't accounted for?)
- 41k debt payments, funeral expenses (may be reasonable, should have been accounted)
____
171.5k assets to be divided by heirs

Mom gets 171.5/3 = 57,167 or so.
Mom got 20k for something that you found out about later, without clear accounting (should have been accounted)

57,167
-20,000
---------
37,167 left for you and brother to split

It could be bad accounting in good faith. It could be bad accounting that was done after your lawyer's accounting request made them back down from asking for the "waiver." It could be accurate accounting that just doesn't include the supporting documentation. Perhaps it's close but a few details were hard to document and they're sweating. If the 41k "debt" paid mom's siblings for labor, more judgment is required, but if the 41k paid actual vendors outside the family, the accounting could be pretty accurate. I'd just ask for the supporting documentation.

Re rent - Suppose rent for the property should have been 15k at fair market value for the time Cousin stayed at the house after Grandparents died. Mom should have received 5k from that. That would be 2,500 each for you and your brother. I wouldn't find fighting over that amount to be worthwhile, and if I trusted the accounting, I'd take the 18k. I'd be comparing the amount vs the cost of arguing.

I'm a persnickety dude. Asking for docs is in my wheelhouse. But if you got bank statements, and any investment statements, and they support the accounting that was made, you'd be golden unless the amount of the rent is important to you.

Take that walk, like the other poster said. But I'm guessing that this response was the acknowledgement that you "won" against the earlier request to waive your mom's share, which has been implicitly withdrawn. I think you're in the home stretch now.

[civil4life]

I forget...was it stated in the will that your mom's $20k should have been taken from her portion or not.

The only thing is does $100k sound right for the house.  Is there an appraisal?

[Retiring_early_in_EastTN]

My lawyer is out of town and we are meeting next week after he reviews it.

There is not an exact appraisal for the house of 100k. The paper does state that this is an estimate.

There is nothing in the will about my mom's 22k, but the check did come from my grandmother's estate.

We have never received a formal accounting other than the paper we received this week with the numbers on paper. There is nothing to back these numbers up. I think it's bad accounting in good faith.

[iluvzbeach]

Let me ask a question.  If your grandparent’s estate had been settled before your mother died and her portion of the proceeds had been sitting in her savings account, would you consider returning those proceeds to your aunts instead of distributing amongst you and your brother? That’s essentially what this situation is, but the “savings account” is still in your grandparent’s names. The money rightfully belongs to you and your brother since you were the recipients of your mother’s estate.

It’s beyond appalling that your aunts are trying to get you to disclaim your mother’s portion. I would not give in to this guilt trip. Your grandparents could have noted loans that your mother needed to repay, if they’d wanted that to happen. And, as others have also said, you have no idea what type of financial help your grandparents may have provided to your aunts.

Demand an accounting of the estate and claim what is legally yours. Release the guilt, your aunts are the ones who are in the wrong.

[Finances_With_Purpose]

What your relatives say to you is meaningless. You should not make any decisions without actual facts and information.

Contact the executor and ask for an accounting of the estate and a copy of the will.

Review this with legal counsel if you have any questions whatsoever about what something means or if you see something that is not easily explained.

Spoken with the wisdom of someone who has been through some things.  I agree.

You don't know them that well, per your post, so I'd be hesitant to sign off on anything.  Especially not under any kind of pressure.  Evaluate the situation first: get the facts.

Realize, too, that it's really easy for people to get greedy and for people to hide things: they may not be telling you that there's X stocks, or X gold, or whatever it is, because they're hoping you'll sign off and then they'll own it all.  It's sad, and I hope that's wrong, but it's frankly very odd that they're asking you to disinherit yourself over things that weren't your fault to begin with.  It smells like greed.  (Or perhaps desperation, since they planned on another outcome only to now realize that's not what's happening.)  Either way, it's not necessarily what's right.

With that said, I would value people and relationships over money.  But you also don't want to be a sucker for someone else's greed/desperation, which is just more enabling behavior, this time, on your part.  It's tough to walk that line, and you can't do it here without the facts. 

I will say this: the burden is on whoever wants to change the will (because that's what this is: distributing not according to the will) to prove the absolute necessity of that, how it wasn't factored in already, and so on.  Even shares is a pretty easy way to keep things fair, and all the more so here. 

I can't say which way you should ultimately lean or whether, like some suggest, a compromise is in order, because we just don't have all the facts.  Sounds like you don't yet either.  With that said, I would be very skeptical in general of folks pulling out things from the past that you aren't that familiar with, don't really know about, or aren't really sure about.  If it's not enough to prove it in court, then why are they wanting you to just accept it as true, to your own detriment?  I'd be very skeptical in general.  In other words, my bias would be strongly against changes, absent some very impressive proof and so on.  Keep in mind: you're only hearing one side of a story, it sounds like, and the folks who really could have filled in the other side (grandparents, your mother) are all gone.  (Proverbs 18:17: "The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.")

Best wishes to you on figuring it out: it sounds like a headache either way: you either forfeit a good chunk of funds or harm relationships, and, either way, it's hard not to be skeptical that those relationships are worth much anyway due to the eagerness to have you forfeit large sums of money for them.  All around sad, especially after a loss; you have my condolences.

[Finances_With_Purpose]

I would not sign a piece of paper stating your mother was paid her portion.  That's not accurate and it could conceivable come back to haunt you.  Either they are getting bad advice from their attorney (the same as the estate attorney?) or they are improvising.  You probably need an attorney to explain the proper courses of action and the consequences if you decide to disclaim.  Disclaiming is not the same thing as saying your mother's portion was paid.

If someone pressured me to come to one of their houses and sign a piece of paper I had not reviewed, I would decline.  My answer would be mail it to me, along with an accounting of the estate and a copy of the will.  Once we have reviewed the documents and have consulted our attorney, we will get back to you.

I believe that Frankie's Girl and the others that have emphasized the wishes of your grandparents are correct.  Had your grandparents wanted to "even things out," they would have done so.  It is not up to some of the inheritors that feel cheated to change the outcome after the fact.  Especially ones that use the tactics these folks are employing.

Also, this.  Never ever sign anything for a legal proceeding unless you actually know it to be true.  You don't know what, if anything, your mom was given.  You don't know what's in the estate, or what your share would be. 

They're effectively asking you to lie to a court.  People do it, but I sure wouldn't recommend it.

Given that (and the brazenness of it), I would say pound sand and refuse it completely; distribute per the will. 

[Finances_With_Purpose]

Sorry for multiple posts: read through your updates and the whole thread.

I generally agree that you're closer, but I'm now more skeptical and think they're actively trying to screw you here.

You said the check to your mom was for $20k.  That's not an equity share of a home, it's a check for 20k.  If you loaned your brother 20k and expected to be paid back, would you expect to be paid back the exact value of his house per that proportion at the time?  Of course not. 

You give him a loan, and the loan might be secured by the house's value (maybe) - what we call a mortgage.  But it's very, very unlikely that the value of that loan is 36k.  More likely, it's just a gift.  (At least in my experience.)   

Their lawyer knows all of that, too, by the way; it sounds like he's trying to actively screw you and get the aunts' families as much as possible.  He knows you don't count the value of a loan as the value of the asset it was used for -- the loan value is the loan value unless otherwise stated. 

At best, they might be able to claim an interest-free loan: there's no contract, just some sort of informal understanding.  But even that is really sketchy: there's a check from a *prior* estate, I gather.  Which doesn't impact this estate.  Did they give an accounting of that estate?  Who else was paid from it?  How do you know they didn't get valuable things from it?

It's exceedingly odd that they want you to pay $36k now for what cost $20k and was probably a low-interest or interest-free loan, or, frankly, more likely just a plain old gift.

I'm guessing they can't prove it's not a gift; it'll be he-said, she-said at best, without documents. 

So I certainly wouldn't accept the 36k figure.  That's just an opening negotiation.  Their lawyer expects you to come back at 20k or less--he may be hoping you won't challenge the 20k if he inflated it to 36k.  I call BS, though. 

And, you know one thing: he's trying to squeeze you out.  So I certainly wouldn't trust him, his accounting, etc.  It looks more like his client (your aunts) have made it clear that they want you to get as little as possible. 

I'd ask your lawyer all of this, of course, as I am not your lawyer.  I began skeptical, but now, I'm beyond skeptical.  They're either trying to screw you, or they all made agreements that nobody bothered to write down, ever, for thousands of dollars, that could impact YOUR future.  I'd say hell no to that.  I might compromise a little, but not based upon this.  I'd stick with full share at this point. 

[AMandM]

Like others, I think you can get a better accounting than that, if what you got was what I imagine from your description. And I think a clear accounting should set the mind at ease. Certainly it's missing the supporting documentation, and I suspect you're within your rights to ask for that. But I think you're almost done.

Based on your description, what you are proposed to receive is reasonable...assuming you are willing to accept your cousin getting free rent, when probably you and your brother are technically entitled to a portion of the forgone rent. I'm not a lawyer, so just guessing (I think some of the other commenters ARE lawyers...). From what I think you said, it went like this:

Original estate
115k financial assets
100k house (estimated)
-----
215k
-   2.5k executor fee (not crazy...though 2500 makes me wonder if it's 1% of 250k, and 35k wasn't accounted for?)
- 41k debt payments, funeral expenses (may be reasonable, should have been accounted)
____
171.5k assets to be divided by heirs

Mom gets 171.5/3 = 57,167 or so.
Mom got 20k for something that you found out about later, without clear accounting (should have been accounted)

57,167
-20,000
---------
37,167 left for you and brother to split

It could be bad accounting in good faith. It could be bad accounting that was done after your lawyer's accounting request made them back down from asking for the "waiver." It could be accurate accounting that just doesn't include the supporting documentation. Perhaps it's close but a few details were hard to document and they're sweating. If the 41k "debt" paid mom's siblings for labor, more judgment is required, but if the 41k paid actual vendors outside the family, the accounting could be pretty accurate. I'd just ask for the supporting documentation.

Re rent - Suppose rent for the property should have been 15k at fair market value for the time Cousin stayed at the house after Grandparents died. Mom should have received 5k from that. That would be 2,500 each for you and your brother. I wouldn't find fighting over that amount to be worthwhile, and if I trusted the accounting, I'd take the 18k. I'd be comparing the amount vs the cost of arguing.

I'm a persnickety dude. Asking for docs is in my wheelhouse. But if you got bank statements, and any investment statements, and they support the accounting that was made, you'd be golden unless the amount of the rent is important to you.

Take that walk, like the other poster said. But I'm guessing that this response was the acknowledgement that you "won" against the earlier request to waive your mom's share, which has been implicitly withdrawn. I think you're in the home stretch now.

I agree with pretty much all of this. I'm slightly more sceptical than BicycleBob about the numbers themselves. In particular, is there any actual evidence (an assertion, even if typed, is not evidence) that your grandmother's non-house assets at the time of her death were $115k? And is there any actual evidence that the $41k was spent as asserted? 

OTOH, you may want to accept these numbers in order to preserve whatever relationship with your aunts is possible at this point. You say you do have reason to be grateful to them in some ways, so here's one way to look at it: Not demanding official financial statements (even though to do so would be perfectly reasonable and normal) can be a way to show your gratitude to them--by not forcing them to reveal that the executrix aunt has failed to comply with her legal responsibilities, and perhaps also (though you can't know) by not revealing that they have skimmed off something extra for themselves.

[AMandM]

P.S. In case it wasn't clear, I think you and your brother should take the $36k, not waive it out of gratitude.

[AMandM]

FwP, I think you misunderstood something. The $20k was paid from the grandmother's estate to the mother, while the mother was still alive. So it gets subtracted from the mother's share of grandmother's estate, leaving $36k to be divided between OP and brother.  The aunts are not asking OP for $36k, but rather showing that OP and brother are entitled to a total of $36k.

[Retiring_early_in_EastTN]

Yes, the 20k was paid directly to my mom's mortgage company. It was actually 22,000 and I found this out by requesting the a copy of the check where my mom paid off her own mortgage. (I knew there was no way she was able to make one a lump sum payment like that.) The copy of the check came from my grandmother's estate so I know she got something....what is odd though....the amount they put down that my mom received is $19,396. 3,000 less that what she actually received....which makes me think this is bad accounting in good faith. Why didn't they actually research and put down what she received to get them more credit?

In response to someone else's question, there is no record of anything other than the piece of paper I received with numbers on them and the word settlement spelled wrong. lol

They have estimated if the house sells at 100k. Property tax records show it at 113K and Zillow shows it at 130k. I know both of those are not accurate and an appraisal needs to be done. Should I request an appraisal? I know it's more than 100k, but not more than 130k in my opinion.

Of course, what all this goes back to is my aunts wanting my brother and I to waive the 36k as "gratitude" for what we received growing up. Basically, it comes down to their bitterness towards my mom and the fact they do not whatsoever want to hand us over any money.

My aunts and I have little to no relationship and, if we actually request the 36k, there will be none at all. Writing that check will be one of the last things they ever want to do.

I talked to a close friend today who knows them both well and, when I said, I feel like they will think I'm being greedy for taking the money, her response was, "well don't you think they are being greedy for withholding the money?"

That made me think....

[GizmoTX]

At this point, do nothing -- let them be hoist on their own petard, so to speak. Don't waste any time being mad at them, but do NOT waive anything. They have not behaved honorably.

[MrThatsDifferent]

I’ve read the initial post and your last one, so I’m sure I’m repeating some people. My quick thoughts: if your Mom was alive, what would happen? Do you think she’d walk away with nothing except gratitude? I doubt it. So she was looked after, that’s family. Anyways, it’s as legally yours as the aunts. I wouldn’t sign away a thing. Either they buy you and your bro out or you both retain ownership and pass it on. I wouldn’t fight for the money or force a sale unless you need it, but I wouldn’t sacrifice your ownership. The grandparents made their choices, to pass it on to all 3 and their heirs. Your aunts don’t mean shit in regards to this, their claim isn’t greater. When they die, then force payment.

Nothing tears families apart more than what happens to the house. Welcome to the American nightmare.

[BicycleB]

I don't think there's any reason to accept a final payment without the house being sold. If the house is to be sold, it seems that the 36k payout would be an interim payout, pending sale of the house. In that case if the house for more than 100k after expenses, you would receive additional payment proportionally.

If one of the aunts is to keep the house, I would definitely get an appraisal. Similarly, I would ask for documentation to support the "piece of paper" accounting that you were given.

[Frankies Girl]

Yes, the 20k was paid directly to my mom's mortgage company. It was actually 22,000 and I found this out by requesting the a copy of the check where my mom paid off her own mortgage. (I knew there was no way she was able to make one a lump sum payment like that.) The copy of the check came from my grandmother's estate so I know she got something....what is odd though....the amount they put down that my mom received is $19,396. 3,000 less that what she actually received....which makes me think this is bad accounting in good faith. Why didn't they actually research and put down what she received to get them more credit?

In response to someone else's question, there is no record of anything other than the piece of paper I received with numbers on them and the word settlement spelled wrong. lol

They have estimated if the house sells at 100k. Property tax records show it at 113K and Zillow shows it at 130k. I know both of those are not accurate and an appraisal needs to be done. Should I request an appraisal? I know it's more than 100k, but not more than 130k in my opinion.

Of course, what all this goes back to is my aunts wanting my brother and I to waive the 36k as "gratitude" for what we received growing up. Basically, it comes down to their bitterness towards my mom and the fact they do not whatsoever want to hand us over any money.

My aunts and I have little to no relationship and, if we actually request the 36k, there will be none at all. Writing that check will be one of the last things they ever want to do.

I talked to a close friend today who knows them both well and, when I said, I feel like they will think I'm being greedy for taking the money, her response was, "well don't you think they are being greedy for withholding the money?"

That made me think....

Your grandparents wanted you to have your mother's fair share. Your aunts are petty, abusive and likely committing fraud and theft because they are so twisted with hate that they are trying to rob their dead sister's children of their inheritance.

Your aunts are 100% in the wrong. You and your sibling requesting a real accounting and your fair share that you are owed is NOT greedy. They're counting on the decades of you being seen as the poor little broken kids from the poor little broken sister that can be bullied into doing whatever they want because you're embarrassed about your mother's behavior. It comes with the territory when your parent is sick/an addict. They're counting on this guilt trip working because you are supposed to feel bad (as far as they are concerned since you are tainted from being HER kids).

Have your lawyer contact their lawyer and tell them the "paperwork" provided is not adequate. And have him explain that no matter what the aunt(s) told him, they did not keep you and your sibling informed and you do not consent to informal record-keeping and demand real, legally binding documents, bank statements, cancelled checks showing things down to the penny, etc.

And do request a formal assessment of the property's value. If the aunts want to keep it, then ask for whatever you think is fair. But this does not mean you have to take the assessment as the actual price - say they assess the house at $100K... you can demand $40K for you and your sibling's share (and do consider doing this - you're giving them a break taking cash if they REALLY want to keep the house so there should be a premium involved). If they don't like that? Fine. Put the house up for sale then and you'll take whatever they get for it. DO NOT ACCEPT A PENNY LESS THAN WHAT YOU ARE OWED. DO NOT MAKE THINGS EASY FOR THEM. The don't deserve it. If they'd been nicer about all of this... sure, but they are the nasty, entitled, sneaky (and likely dishonest) bitches here. Screw them, get what your mom should have gotten from them - what is rightfully yours.

I would not be surprised if the aunts lied to the estate lawyer about how they kept you both in the loop and may have even hidden things, but told the lawyer it was okay since everyone was okay with it being super informal... but as the sworn fiduciary, the aunt that was the executrix was required by law to do things properly or risk severe penalties. Be interesting to see if the executrix aunt doesn't freak out.

[AMandM]

Of course, what all this goes back to is my aunts wanting my brother and I to waive the 36k as "gratitude" for what we received growing up. Basically, it comes down to their bitterness towards my mom and the fact they do not whatsoever want to hand us over any money.

I can understand them feeling bitter towards your mother, even though some of their suffering was self-induced through their enabling of her. But that doesn't make it okay for them to take revenge on you and your brother.

My aunts and I have little to no relationship and, if we actually request the 36k, there will be none at all. Writing that check will be one of the last things they ever want to do.

Not to be nitpicky, but you are not requesting the money. It is your money. *They* are requesting the money from you!

I talked to a close friend today who knows them both well and, when I said, I feel like they will think I'm being greedy for taking the money, her response was, "well don't you think they are being greedy for withholding the money?"

That made me think....

And one more thought:
It's only an accident of the timing (i.e. your mother having died before your grandmother's estate was settled) that creates the opportunity for this demand by your aunts. In the normal course of events, the $36k would have gone to your mother and at her death it would have passed to you and your brother. In that situation, it would not make any sense for your aunts to come to you after your mother died and say, "Since we looked after your mom, you should be grateful, so you should give us your inheritance." The delay in settling your grandmother's estate hides the ludicrousness of their demand, but doesn't fundamentally alter it.

[Finances_With_Purpose]

FwP, I think you misunderstood something. The $20k was paid from the grandmother's estate to the mother, while the mother was still alive. So it gets subtracted from the mother's share of grandmother's estate, leaving $36k to be divided between OP and brother.  The aunts are not asking OP for $36k, but rather showing that OP and brother are entitled to a total of $36k.

I did.  Misread it.  Even after reading it twice, because it confused me.  That makes a lot more sense.  In light of that, I'd revise what I said above slightly, though I'm still with @Frankies Girl and @AMandM and others.

One caution to you, from my experience.  I have walked through something like this with family before and can tell you one thing as a certainty: you do NOT want to own a part of a home that someone else lives in.  Either have them buy you out or sell the house (and take their share and buy what they can with it).  (Odds are: they can either buy you out at a fair price--put a mortgage on the house, for instance, or they can't afford it anyway and couldn't get a loan for the remaining home value otherwise.  Which is to say: none of it depends upon you, they're just hoping you'll give them a free gift.)

You do NOT want to own part of a home that you don't control.  It can give rise to lawsuits, legal issues, and so on.  I had a relative who got sued for unpaid taxes once because a bunch of grown adults couldn't pay their own paltry taxes on a fully paid for (and inherited) home.  Which then created its own problems for the inheritor.   

You would be setting yourself up to be the guy who bails them out.  It starts right if/when you signaled your willingness to bail them out of a situation where they're living in a house that they don't own, and it often doesn't get any better from there.

Yeah, you may feel bad for a bit forcing a sale, but really, it's just recognizing a fact: this situation isn't reconcilable without screwing yourself.  Even with a sale, everyone gets their fair chunk of fair value, which people should be happy about either way. 

Turning back to your primary question: that's still a raw deal.  It's even worse, to me, that they would demand this given that your mother just died while the estate was pending, and their grievances are against her, not you.  I can't imagine any of my relatives acting that way, or holding the parents' actions against kids.  You had a troubled parent, and you're our nephew, but will you give us $36k because we didn't like your mom?  (And I say this as someone who has odd relatives, and knows many a friend with relatives who've done each other some serious wrongs and still wouldn't stoop to this level, at least I hope.) 

This just screams greed.  And the response to greed isn't more greed, it's "let's have a fair accounting."  Then find a reasonable amount, knowing that you can't trust a thing you're being told.

In all likelihood, there may well have been other assets that the attorney or aunts didn't bother to mention, like bank accounts, bonds, or whatever.  If you're willing to DEMAND a free $36k, there are a lot of other bridges you'd be willing to cross first...

If you want additional perspective on inheriting, go read the inheritance drama thread.  At least your story won't be the saddest one there...

[BicycleB]

@Finances_With_Purpose, no offense, but I don't think they're asking for $36k. They have stopped asking OP to abandon his share.
They're saying that the share due to him and his brother is $36k, meaning 18k apiece.

It's been stated upthread, but their statement now appears to be:
115k financial assets
100k house estimated value
-----
215k
 -2.5k executrix fee
 -41k funeral expenses, debts incurred by grandparents during life
-----
171.5 net value of estate
divided by 3 inheritors (mom & 2 aunts) = 57k mom's share of estate

57k mom's share of estate
-22k received by mom when she was alive
-----
35k mom's remaining share

They're offering 36k, divided by 2 kids = 18k each. OP hasn't gotten documents to support the above, but it's an accounting that doesn't necessarily imply anyone is being ripped off.

[Finances_With_Purpose]

Agreed @BicycleB ; I used the $36k figure this time because, morally speaking, it appears that OP and his brother are in the same or essentially same position. 

To clarify, I'm referring to the original ask.  The first ask, right out of the gate, was to drop any claim to $36k. 

That's more than reason enough to be pretty skeptical of subsequent accountings...36,000 reasons, in fact, if not more. 

Not saying the accounting is a cheat, but I am saying that I would have zero trust in it without independent verification (which I realize is complicated in these circumstances). 

Aunts expected OP to quickly and completely sign away $18k (and with his brother together, $36k) that they're by law entitled to.  It's not a big hop from that point to outright fraud. 

In fact, as others pointed out, they may have only asked for the signature because otherwise they lack clear title to the house.  So there's reason to think that outright fraud was in fact the entire goal from the outset. 

That could even explain why the aunts backed off so quickly: any hesitation by the brothers makes it more likely that fraud will be exposed.  Not saying that's necessarily what happened, but I am saying that OP wants to look at this situation with a heavy dose of cynicism towards the aunts. 

If it's not clear: it's not that I detest the aunts' actions here, or even that we have all of the facts from this, but I really hate it when honest people get screwed simply by being too trusting and I am throwing a note of skepticism in here for OP, as someone who has seen far, far too many situations like this go sideways. 

Based on the info we have, my read of the situation is that the aunts are taking everything in sight--as much as possible--to OP's detriment, so I would be extremely cautious about agreeing to anything without more info. 

And OP, one more thought: if you learn a year or two later that the aunts were actually spot on in their intentions, and you were wrong all along, you can always gift $$$ back.  But once you sign it away, it's gone forever.

[MrThatsDifferent]

@Finances_With_Purpose, no offense, but I don't think they're asking for $36k. They have stopped asking OP to abandon his share.
They're saying that the share due to him and his brother is $36k, meaning 18k apiece.

It's been stated upthread, but their statement now appears to be:
115k financial assets
100k house estimated value
-----
215k
 -2.5k executrix fee
 -41k funeral expenses, debts incurred by grandparents during life
-----
171.5 net value of estate
divided by 3 inheritors (mom & 2 aunts) = 57k mom's share of estate

57k mom's share of estate
-22k received by mom when she was alive
-----
35k mom's remaining share

They're offering 36k, divided by 2 kids = 18k each. OP hasn't gotten documents to support the above, but it's an accounting that doesn't necessarily imply anyone is being ripped off.

Awww, thanks for clarifying. All things considered then, the $18k each sounds fair to me.

[dragoncar]

Woah, what have I walked into here?  I stayed up past my bedtime to read all the helpful advice and now I need to see the resolution.

Sorry I can’t offer any advice OP but I’m rooting for you

[AMandM]

Of course, what all this goes back to is my aunts wanting my brother and I to waive the 36k as "gratitude" for what we received growing up. Basically, it comes down to their bitterness towards my mom and the fact they do not whatsoever want to hand us over any money.

Two more thoughts from me. One on the legal/procedural aspect: You haven't said anything about what your brother is thinking, but remember that even if he waives his inheritance, you don't have to waive yours.

And one more on the interpersonal aspect: Don't let the aunts make you feel that waiving your inheritance will somehow heal or resolve all the emotional trauma. If you and your brother waive the inheritance, your aunts will be $36k richer, but it won't make them happy. They will still be bitter towards your mother, they will still look down on you as unworthy, they will still be resentful of their situation in life.

Hang in there. I am so sorry you have to go through this wringer after having lost both your grandmother and your mother.

[Cpa Cat]

In your situation, I might have been tempted to waive my share... until they basically told me I was an unworthy, ungrateful leech and so was my mother and that they had to sit back and watch while I sucked up resources as a child.

After that, I would take my share.

They're greedy and resentful. Their resentment/greed won't be healed by you being generous.

If it were me, I would contact the attorney directly and tell them I am not waiving my rights and expect to be kept in the loop of the final dissolution of the estate, which should involve selling the real estate or buying you out. Then I would stop accepting calls from Aunty.

[Retiring_early_in_EastTN]

Of course, what all this goes back to is my aunts wanting my brother and I to waive the 36k as "gratitude" for what we received growing up. Basically, it comes down to their bitterness towards my mom and the fact they do not whatsoever want to hand us over any money.

Two more thoughts from me. One on the legal/procedural aspect: You haven't said anything about what your brother is thinking, but remember that even if he waives his inheritance, you don't have to waive yours.

And one more on the interpersonal aspect: Don't let the aunts make you feel that waiving your inheritance will somehow heal or resolve all the emotional trauma. If you and your brother waive the inheritance, your aunts will be $36k richer, but it won't make them happy. They will still be bitter towards your mother, they will still look down on you as unworthy, they will still be resentful of their situation in life.

Hang in there. I am so sorry you have to go through this wringer after having lost both your grandmother and your mother.

Thank you to everyone for caring and responding. I feel I am being as upfront and honest to make sure all sides are presented. We've not received anything of any significant support or gift over the years from our grandparents, as adults, that would contribute to our aunts' thinking and saying, "we think you've had enough." And honestly my mom supported herself for the most part. We may have had to rob Peter to pay Paul, but we made it. Not saying that my grandparents or maybe one of my aunts for that matter would step in and pay our electric bill or a car payment now and then when things got really bad. My mom worked up until a year prior to her death when she started having medical conditions and, luckily for us, that is how we were able to take care of her funeral and debts. She had a basic life insurance policy through her work because she was on approved medical unpaid leave. That is what made me skeptical of how she paid off her mortgage in one lump sum and what sent me on that trail that led me to the bank who produced a copy of the 22k. My mom didn't leave a will so my attorney did an affidavit of heirship and my brother and I spilt everything in half. I handled all that with complete transparency with my brother and we both walked away content.

My brother is indifferent. He is 13 years younger than me and, with our mom being how she was, I was always like a mom to him so he is basically letting me handle it. He has a family to take care of (I do too, but I'm in a completely different stage without young ones to tote around) and doesn't have the financial resources or time to track all this down. He's already decided that he will go with what I decide because he knows either way we have not had and will not have any relationship with our aunts and that is pretty much all that is left from our mom's side of the family.


Our aunts have made no promises of if we don't take the money things will be better nor will they. I don't see that happening either way.

My lawyer called yesterday and looked over their financial accounting and he says it looks pretty reasonable and if I'm ok with it he will call their lawyer and see what they are thinking. He says maybe they didn't realize they owe us money, but I know that is not the case. It is not a matter of neither one of them not having the money either. Honestly, 36k is a lot of money, but it's very doable to them and won't set them back. It just comes down to them being controlling and they don't want to give us anything. I think it came as a complete surprise to them the will said "per stirpes" not whoever is left and they didn't realize it till they had already made a plan and spilt everything. Again, they brought up things they did to our grandparents' house to help them, took them on vacations, etc.......

[Rosy]

@Finances_With_Purpose, no offense, but I don't think they're asking for $36k.

 They have stopped asking OP to abandon his share.

They're saying that the share due to him and his brother is $36k, meaning 18k apiece.

It's been stated upthread, but their statement now appears to be:
115k financial assets
100k house estimated value
-----
215k
 -2.5k executrix fee
 -41k funeral expenses, debts incurred by grandparents during life
-----
171.5 net value of estate
divided by 3 inheritors (mom & 2 aunts) = 57k mom's share of estate

57k mom's share of estate
-22k received by mom when she was alive
-----
35k mom's remaining share

They're offering 36k, divided by 2 kids = 18k each. OP hasn't gotten documents to support the above, but it's an accounting that doesn't necessarily imply anyone is being ripped off.

Nice accounting - brilliant clarification, Bicycle:)

1. At this point, the aunts realize that you will not be bullied or guilted into simply giving up your combined $36K inheritance. They know that the law is on your side.
Round one goes to you:).

2. I agree with Bicycle that the accounting given so far does not "necessarily" imply that anyone has been ripped off.
The questions I would have for your attorney are:

HOUSE
Can you ask for at least two independent appraisals on the house? Then agree to accept your portion of that amount?, once papers are drawn up that show you are no longer the one-third owners? (you do not want to become entangled with anything like taxes or expenses for the house).
I'd lean toward letting the nephew stay for free assuming the aunts have paid for upkeep and maintenance, improvements to the house and you are presented with evidence that there are no other lien or taxes levied on the home that you are not aware of as yet.

I do believe it is of utmost importance for the aunts to clear the title of that house - it is your biggest bargaining chip. Owning a home in good condition clear and free is undoubtedly their ultimate goal!

3. The 41K for debt and funeral expenses may well be accurate, but could be overblown. Does the attorney think it would be prudent to ask for an accurate, fully documented account of those expenditures?

4. I still don't quite understand why the $22K given to your mom as a gift can be deducted from your inheritance.
I still question the validity of that claim.

I would ask your lawyer to view the current accounting from the standpoint that you are extremely reluctant to accept any figures without proper documentation based on how they've handled this so-called "execution of a will" or rather a complete disregard for the will. I'd ask him if he thinks it prudent to dig deeper since it appears that they've already tried to "cheat" you out of your inheritance in the most underhanded way. Does he see something blatantly missing or worth asking about?

You would like to handle this matter in a prudent, cautious fashion. You have no fences to mend with your relatives they've erected barbed-wire fences and told you in no uncertain terms exactly how they feel about you and your brother.

I hope it all goes well for you!

[former player]

I think it came as a complete surprise to them the will said "per stirpes" not whoever is left and they didn't realize it till they had already made a plan and spilt everything. Again, they brought up things they did to our grandparents' house to help them, took them on vacations, etc.......

Er, actually, I don't think this can be true.  Firstly, the "per stirpes" thing is irrelevant, because your mother was still alive when your grandmother died, and per stirpes would only have applied if your mother died first, in which case her one-third share would have come directly to you and your brother equally, rather than through your mother's estate. And secondly, your mother got $22k or thereabouts from an earlier partial distribution of the estate, so your aunts must have known then exactly what your mother was entitled to (from what you say, chances of them giving her so much money if she wasn't legally entitled to it seem small), and when she died after that partial distribution from the estate they would have known at that point that you and your brother were entitled to the remainder of her one-third share.

So I'm sorry, but I think your aunt has been lying through her teeth to you about this.  Especially as she is saying that this came from a lawyer: no lawyer would make such a fundamental mistake as to call this a per stirpes distribution instead of an inheritance through your mother.  And this has been going on for years since your grandmother died, there's no chance they only just got legal advice about it.  I suspect, like others, that your aunt has belatedly found out that she needs signatures from you and your brother to get the house title transferred into whatever her preferred new ownership is, and has cooked up what she thinks is a legal-sounding excuse about why she is only just contacting you now.  There's also an implication that she has been trying to guilt you into thinking the $22k was a gift to your mother when it was not.

Your aunt can have no possible reasonable objection to your lawyer asking either to have the formal financial accounts certified by an appropriate official (lawyer, accountant, probate office, etc.) or being supplied with the original background documents such as bank statements and evidence of debts and expenditures.  And if the house is not to be sold on the open market then you need at least two open market appraisals and for it to be valued at the average of them.

I'm sorry you are having to deal with this.  I would suggest that all communication about the estate goes through you lawyer, and that if your aunt contacts you directly you just say "I'm happy you called, but I'd rather not mix money and family so anything about the estate needs to go through our lawyer".

[A Fella from Stella]

They paid out to help you mom and you, but you missed out by having a mom who couldn't give you more.

I'd take what's been left by the grandparents as mine. If your aunt and uncle are in trouble financially from the help over the years, that's difference, but they are saying they are owed back what they gave, which is not the case.

Also, they are treating you as the lesser of your generation, saying that you got more than their kids, implying that their kids deserved more than they got (stable home, financially secure upbringing).

[dragoncar]

They paid out to help you mom and you, but you missed out by having a mom who couldn't give you more.

I'd take what's been left by the grandparents as mine. If your aunt and uncle are in trouble financially from the help over the years, that's difference, but they are saying they are owed back what they gave, which is not the case.

Also, they are treating you as the lesser of your generation, saying that you got more than their kids, implying that their kids deserved more than they got (stable home, financially secure upbringing).

This is exactly what got my goat about the “gratitude” comment.  The aunts obviously have no gratitude for their position in life.

[TVRodriguez]

I think it came as a complete surprise to them the will said "per stirpes" not whoever is left and they didn't realize it till they had already made a plan and spilt everything. Again, they brought up things they did to our grandparents' house to help them, took them on vacations, etc.......

Er, actually, I don't think this can be true.  Firstly, the "per stirpes" thing is irrelevant, because your mother was still alive when your grandmother died, and per stirpes would only have applied if your mother died first, in which case her one-third share would have come directly to you and your brother equally, rather than through your mother's estate. And secondly, your mother got $22k or thereabouts from an earlier partial distribution of the estate, so your aunts must have known then exactly what your mother was entitled to (from what you say, chances of them giving her so much money if she wasn't legally entitled to it seem small), and when she died after that partial distribution from the estate they would have known at that point that you and your brother were entitled to the remainder of her one-third share.
....
There's also an implication that she has been trying to guilt you into thinking the $22k was a gift to your mother when it was not.

I'm sorry you are having to deal with this.

I agree with this analysis.

They paid out to help you mom and you, but you missed out by having a mom who couldn't give you more.

I'd take what's been left by the grandparents as mine. If your aunt and uncle are in trouble financially from the help over the years, that's difference, but they are saying they are owed back what they gave, which is not the case.

Also, they are treating you as the lesser of your generation, saying that you got more than their kids, implying that their kids deserved more than they got (stable home, financially secure upbringing).

This is spot on as well.