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Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Ask a Mustachian => Topic started by: CCCA on August 29, 2018, 12:27:42 AM

Title: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: CCCA on August 29, 2018, 12:27:42 AM
We scored a 3 night stay at a resort in Sedona, AZ for $50 ($150 upfront - $100 visa card when we attend the presentation) in a few weeks.  I know it's no obligation to purchase and there is literally no way in hell we'd ever agree to purchase a timeshare, but people keep warning us about high pressure sales tactics and the presentations dragging on way too long. 


So with that in mind,
1) who's done one of these timeshare presentations?
2) what has your experience been?
3) what are your best tips to keep the presentation moving along and getting out of there with a minimum of pain?
4) what are some good and effective lines for indicating your utter lack of interest?

Edited to add: it's with Diamond Resorts International, if anyone has particular experience with that company.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: boarder42 on August 29, 2018, 04:37:38 AM
For me it's always easy to say no I do these all the time. There is a required amount of time you are giving up when you decide to do these usually 90 minutes. So watch the time and at the end of 90 mins. Request to leave and receive your gift card bc you're not interested.  I've done diamond before. It wasn't that bad the lady tried to make us feel like crap for wasting her time when we said times up. But other than that I enjoy them. Best one I ever did was Marriott. It was on our honeymoon told the rep that when we walked in and she said are you going to buy today we said no. So she said I've got to act like I'm selling you so let's go to my office and I'll give you some local tips for the area then we'll tour a room and you can leave.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: Dave1442397 on August 29, 2018, 05:21:10 AM
We've stayed at two Marriott resorts for $150 per stay. One in Orlando for four nights, and one in Myrtle Beach for five nights.

The Orlando sales guy asked up front if we were interested in buying. We said no, and we were out of there in fifteen minutes.

The Myrtle Beach guy had us sit through the presentation, which was maybe a half hour, and then told me I had a good poker face, because he'd seen no reaction throughout the spiel. No pressure there either - we just said we weren't interested and left.

Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: simonsez on August 29, 2018, 09:25:13 AM
I think the biggest mistake that someone who has no intention of buying anything is they are too nice.

I've only done two but each time it was a 1 on 1 (well 1 on 2 if you count DW and me) rather than a group presentation.  In fact, I wouldn't even call it a presentation but more so a guided tour of the grounds and a specific unit.  The salesperson will be happy to show you this and that over the course of up to several hours because their training tells them the longer they have you on the line - the better their odds of a sale.  But if you take up more of their time and ultimately waste theirs, that's not ideal.  I was too nice my first go around and felt bad after it dawned on me that the salesperson must've really thought they had a sale in the bag after the amount of time spent with us.

Be direct, be complimentary and nice enough to have a respectful and pleasant time - it is fairly interesting to see different places and what they have to offer - but really being honest and respectful of the salesperson's time is what matters. 

If they know they have no shot of selling you anything, they will break off sooner to give you whatever freebies to get you out the door so they can try to end the day with a sale.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: charis on August 29, 2018, 09:32:23 AM
If they give a you a hard time after you say no, have your spouse leave to "take a call."  After a couple of minutes, have him return and say that there's been a death in the family and you have to leave.  Pick up your gift on the way out. 
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: Lanthiriel on August 29, 2018, 10:33:35 AM
I did one in Vegas that was supposed to be 90 minutes and took 5 hours. I agree with the advice of not being too nice. They clearly thought we were interested because we were too engaged in the presentation. We went through two additional rounds of sales people after our initial person. The last guy actually straight up yelled at us for "being a fucking waste of time." But we did get cheap show tickets, so that was nice. I don't think I'd do it again.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: mm1970 on August 29, 2018, 10:36:07 AM
We scored a 3 night stay at a resort in Sedona, AZ for $50 ($150 upfront - $100 visa card when we attend the presentation) in a few weeks.  I know it's no obligation to purchase and there is literally no way in hell we'd ever agree to purchase a timeshare, but people keep warning us about high pressure sales tactics and the presentations dragging on way too long. 


So with that in mind,
1) who's done one of these timeshare presentations?
2) what has your experience been?
3) what are your best tips to keep the presentation moving along and getting out of there with a minimum of pain?
4) what are some good and effect lines for indicating your utter lack of interest?

Edited to add: it's with Diamond Resorts International, if anyone has particular experience with that company.
I've not done one of those but one of my coworkers have.  We just sat politely through it and when it was over we said "thanks" and left.

If it helps, we stayed at a Diamond Resorts site once, I think (Palm Springs).  It was a condo with plenty of space for the 4 of us to sleep, a great pool, and decent pool-side food.  Quite nice and about the same price as a hotel room, so a great deal for the 2 nights.  The only downside is that they were way understaffed as far as cleaning goes, so we weren't able to check in until quite a bit of time after check in time.  And the dishwasher in the unit was leaky. 

So, why get a timeshare when you can rent others timeshares?  I know we all know this.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: CCCA on August 29, 2018, 11:25:35 AM
thanks everyone who responded so far.  I think we'll probably make it clear (firmly and often) that we have no intention of buying anything and just came for the heavily discounted stay. 


Hopefully we're not stuck there for 5 hours!  yikes.



Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: boarder42 on August 29, 2018, 11:33:47 AM
thanks everyone who responded so far.  I think we'll probably make it clear (firmly and often) that we have no intention of buying anything and just came for the heavily discounted stay. 


Hopefully we're not stuck there for 5 hours!  yikes.

You are the only reason you'd be there 5 hours you can leave after the agreed to time 90 or 60 mins or whatever
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: charis on August 29, 2018, 12:11:00 PM
thanks everyone who responded so far.  I think we'll probably make it clear (firmly and often) that we have no intention of buying anything and just came for the heavily discounted stay. 


Hopefully we're not stuck there for 5 hours!  yikes.

You are the only reason you'd be there 5 hours you can leave after the agreed to time 90 or 60 mins or whatever

Exactly, if you are there for 5 hours (or even 2), it's because you haven't left.  A little secret, everyone says they aren't intending to buy, that's built into their sales tactic.  I've been to a few presentations (when I was young - it's absolutely not worth my time anymore) and they were never ended by the salesperson.  You actually have to get up and leave. 
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: pdxbator on August 29, 2018, 12:19:21 PM
Please follow up with this! I'd like to go to Sedona in March and would be interested in staying somewhere.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: boarder42 on August 29, 2018, 01:20:53 PM
Please follow up with this! I'd like to go to Sedona in March and would be interested in staying somewhere.

i'd hope you plan to stay somewhere.  its hard to stay nowhere.  physics typically prevents it.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: Curmudgeon on August 29, 2018, 01:42:41 PM
I used to get calls/mailings for stuff like this all the time.  But I didn't have the time to spend, so I never replied (or ended the discussion promptly if it was a phone call).  As a result, I think I got taken off the 'lists', because I don't get these offers anymore.  But now I've got time, and I should be in the target demographic for these offers.  How do I trigger getting my name back on the 'list'? 
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: boarder42 on August 29, 2018, 01:53:18 PM
I used to get calls/mailings for stuff like this all the time.  But I didn't have the time to spend, so I never replied (or ended the discussion promptly if it was a phone call).  As a result, I think I got taken off the 'lists', because I don't get these offers anymore.  But now I've got time, and I should be in the target demographic for these offers.  How do I trigger getting my name back on the 'list'?

you can actually call marriott and ask what promos they have act like you missed a call from them- i think they allow 5 lifetime before they just assume you're never going to buy. You can also go onto https://www.diamondresorts.com/deals/

and see they have promos there - i assume you could do this with different companies and get back on their lists again.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: katsiki on August 29, 2018, 01:57:01 PM
This is probably not the MMM answer but I wouldn't go.  Not worth the hassle and BS.  These salespeople are worse than the worst car salesmen.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: boarder42 on August 29, 2018, 02:01:51 PM
i'll go ahead and tell my "horror" story - i actually found it entertaining and it got me alot of extra points but some people would be super pissed and never do timeshare presentations again - i'm a cheap ass so i'll do them all the time depending on the offer.

we took one for vegas at Hilton vacations club back in 2012.  We were sitting at the pool the morning before we had our appt. being classy passing a bag of wine back and forth.  so we were pretty tipsy heading in.  But i typically still carry myself pretty well prior to my blackout state which i didnt get to b/c i remember all of this.  anyways.  we go in tell them we're just there for the free nights and our dude says awesome we'll get thru this quickly and we're rolling thru and then they bring in the "ringer" to try and hard sell us we say we're not interested he doesnt listen and keeps trying different things ...

Finally he turns to my wife who happens to have a huge gash on her forehead from a wakeboard accident 2 weeks before where she had to get 30 stitches.  and he asks her "Now how did you really get that gash on your head" insuating i beat my wife. 

Now i'm not sure what his expectation was here - oh whoops you caught me i'll spend 50k on your timeshare now! but we promptly ended the meeting called the manager over - they gave us more free shit i was diamond with hilton hotels at the time i called them up and they gave me 100k more free HHonors points and we left but WTF that guy was thinking i dont know.  I look back and laugh at it bc how many times has that worked for him before.  I also received a phone call saying he'd been fired 2 weeks later.

Some may fhind this a bad story but i think its hilarious and it scored me a ton of bonus stuff.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: CCCA on August 29, 2018, 02:56:15 PM
i'll go ahead and tell my "horror" story - i actually found it entertaining and it got me alot of extra points but some people would be super pissed and never do timeshare presentations again - i'm a cheap ass so i'll do them all the time depending on the offer.

we took one for vegas at Hilton vacations club back in 2012.  We were sitting at the pool the morning before we had our appt. being classy passing a bag of wine back and forth.  so we were pretty tipsy heading in.  But i typically still carry myself pretty well prior to my blackout state which i didnt get to b/c i remember all of this.  anyways.  we go in tell them we're just there for the free nights and our dude says awesome we'll get thru this quickly and we're rolling thru and then they bring in the "ringer" to try and hard sell us we say we're not interested he doesnt listen and keeps trying different things ...

Finally he turns to my wife who happens to have a huge gash on her forehead from a wakeboard accident 2 weeks before where she had to get 30 stitches.  and he asks her "Now how did you really get that gash on your head" insuating i beat my wife. 

Now i'm not sure what his expectation was here - oh whoops you caught me i'll spend 50k on your timeshare now! but we promptly ended the meeting called the manager over - they gave us more free shit i was diamond with hilton hotels at the time i called them up and they gave me 100k more free HHonors points and we left but WTF that guy was thinking i dont know.  I look back and laugh at it bc how many times has that worked for him before.  I also received a phone call saying he'd been fired 2 weeks later.

Some may fhind this a bad story but i think its hilarious and it scored me a ton of bonus stuff.


In making the reservation and scheduling the presentation time (2 separate calls), they've told me 4 times that I cannot drink or be drunk during the presentation or they will make us pay for our rooms.  Seems like that (going to these things drunk) is apparently a thing.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: boarder42 on August 29, 2018, 05:18:25 PM
i'll go ahead and tell my "horror" story - i actually found it entertaining and it got me alot of extra points but some people would be super pissed and never do timeshare presentations again - i'm a cheap ass so i'll do them all the time depending on the offer.

we took one for vegas at Hilton vacations club back in 2012.  We were sitting at the pool the morning before we had our appt. being classy passing a bag of wine back and forth.  so we were pretty tipsy heading in.  But i typically still carry myself pretty well prior to my blackout state which i didnt get to b/c i remember all of this.  anyways.  we go in tell them we're just there for the free nights and our dude says awesome we'll get thru this quickly and we're rolling thru and then they bring in the "ringer" to try and hard sell us we say we're not interested he doesnt listen and keeps trying different things ...

Finally he turns to my wife who happens to have a huge gash on her forehead from a wakeboard accident 2 weeks before where she had to get 30 stitches.  and he asks her "Now how did you really get that gash on your head" insuating i beat my wife. 

Now i'm not sure what his expectation was here - oh whoops you caught me i'll spend 50k on your timeshare now! but we promptly ended the meeting called the manager over - they gave us more free shit i was diamond with hilton hotels at the time i called them up and they gave me 100k more free HHonors points and we left but WTF that guy was thinking i dont know.  I look back and laugh at it bc how many times has that worked for him before.  I also received a phone call saying he'd been fired 2 weeks later.

Some may fhind this a bad story but i think its hilarious and it scored me a ton of bonus stuff.


In making the reservation and scheduling the presentation time (2 separate calls), they've told me 4 times that I cannot drink or be drunk during the presentation or they will make us pay for our rooms.  Seems like that (going to these things drunk) is apparently a thing.

Prove I'm drunk.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: the_fixer on August 29, 2018, 08:22:20 PM
My wife got sucked into attending one and when they were saying what a great investment it was I pulled up all of the listings of the time shares they were trying to sell that were listed for almost nothing and they asked us to leave :)

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: elliha on August 30, 2018, 01:47:08 AM
I would if it is possible schedule something that happens after the presentation so that I would not be tempted to be nice and let them go on talking too long. "Thanks for your presenation, I am sorry we have to leave now for x. We have been looking forward to doing x for several weeks now so we are quite excited. Bye!"
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: boarder42 on August 30, 2018, 04:22:59 AM
My wife got sucked into attending one and when they were saying what a great investment it was I pulled up all of the listings of the time shares they were trying to sell that were listed for almost nothing and they asked us to leave :)

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Buying second hand or inheriting a time share since the upfront cost is so tiny compared to buying new can actually be worth it for a savvy traveler who uses it properly. After extensive research I chose to inherit my grandfather's time share with my dad so I'm protected if they do something stupid I can just take my name off the lease and let it die with my dad. But for an example. Again ignoring upfront cost to purchase. We're going to stay 7 nights ocean front on Kauai for around 700 dollars in a 3 bedroom condo based on the annual cost of points. You can't even find that on Airbnb or VRBO. 

So while they have a bad stigma due to sales tactics and the fact they aren't worth what they sell them to you for when you try to resell. They are worth buying second hand if youve done your research and know how to use it
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: talltexan on August 30, 2018, 08:10:56 AM
My wife and I got sucked into one of these at Myrtle beach. She is nice, and indulged the salesman quite a bit. I absent-mindedly mentioned that we were a little tight on cash because of some "litigation on another real estate transaction", and that seemed to end things really quickly.

I wasn't being strategic, tt was true, we'd sold our home two years earlier and were just settling a law suit from the buyers in that case. But it sure made me sound like a high-risk client to the salesman. You're welcome to use that line if you need an extra tool to shut things down.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: HipGnosis on August 30, 2018, 10:31:59 AM
Ask three questions;
How long do I have to be here to get the gift card?
How much are the fees and when do they end?
Is your buy-back policy in writing?

Repeat as necessary.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: robartsd on August 30, 2018, 11:37:38 AM
I've only been to one on property presentation. The offer was 2 nights, but we got 4 by requesting Monday and Tuesday nights during an off peak time (early May) - they extended so we could attend a presentation Friday morning. We enjoyed our 4 night stay then attended the presentation.

IIRC there was only one other couple at the presentation. The presentation started with a video about the properties in the group (the timeshare on offer had 4 or 5 resorts in Nevada, mostly around lake Tahoe - members could schedule any week at any of the properties - the stay and presentation were at what I believe is the least desirable of the Tahoe properties). In the one on one sales after the video, they asked questions on how important taking an annual vacation is to our family. They talked up how easy it is to transfer into timeshare exchange programs and how desirable the properties you're buying into are making it easy to go anywhere you want. They glossed over the fees (annual maintenance for the property, fees to use exchanges).

Looking at the fees it was clear to me that we generally wouldn't get enough value from joining to be worth the fees even if the buy in was $0. If you do think a timeshare will be any value to you, look to pick it up cheap from someone just trying to escape the overhead. Our relatively easy exit from the presentation we attended was saying we weren't interested at this time because we were currently shopping for our first home. I think the salesperson easily realized it wasn't worth competing with another big purchase that was not related to vacations.

We also once attended a presentation in town that offered a voucher for later travel. They claimed that there would be not pressure, but in actuality they used high pressure sales techniques (mostly tonight only discounts). The voucher had so many hoops to jump through we didn't end up using it. At least we didn't spend anything but gas and time on that one.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: CCCA on August 30, 2018, 11:55:05 AM
awesome tips and stories so far. Keep em coming!

Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: boarder42 on August 30, 2018, 01:36:43 PM
I've only been to one on property presentation. The offer was 2 nights, but we got 4 by requesting Monday and Tuesday nights during an off peak time (early May) - they extended so we could attend a presentation Friday morning. We enjoyed our 4 night stay then attended the presentation.

IIRC there was only one other couple at the presentation. The presentation started with a video about the properties in the group (the timeshare on offer had 4 or 5 resorts in Nevada, mostly around lake Tahoe - members could schedule any week at any of the properties - the stay and presentation were at what I believe is the least desirable of the Tahoe properties). In the one on one sales after the video, they asked questions on how important taking an annual vacation is to our family. They talked up how easy it is to transfer into timeshare exchange programs and how desirable the properties you're buying into are making it easy to go anywhere you want. They glossed over the fees (annual maintenance for the property, fees to use exchanges).

Looking at the fees it was clear to me that we generally wouldn't get enough value from joining to be worth the fees even if the buy in was $0. If you do think a timeshare will be any value to you, look to pick it up cheap from someone just trying to escape the overhead. Our relatively easy exit from the presentation we attended was saying we weren't interested at this time because we were currently shopping for our first home. I think the salesperson easily realized it wasn't worth competing with another big purchase that was not related to vacations.

We also once attended a presentation in town that offered a voucher for later travel. They claimed that there would be not pressure, but in actuality they used high pressure sales techniques (mostly tonight only discounts). The voucher had so many hoops to jump through we didn't end up using it. At least we didn't spend anything but gas and time on that one.

this is a really good point NEVER take offers that are with a voucher b/c of the hoops to jump thru make sure you get your benefits at the same time as the presentation.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: Cassie on August 30, 2018, 11:59:54 PM
If you leave before being officially released they will charge you for the nights you stayed.  After being insulted etc we finally were released. Would never do it again.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: Goldielocks on August 31, 2018, 05:02:18 PM
I did one in Vegas that was supposed to be 90 minutes and took 5 hours. I agree with the advice of not being too nice. They clearly thought we were interested because we were too engaged in the presentation. We went through two additional rounds of sales people after our initial person. The last guy actually straight up yelled at us for "being a fucking waste of time." But we did get cheap show tickets, so that was nice. I don't think I'd do it again.
We do a timeshare presentation every few years.  I am interested in their business model and sales techniques, from an observational interest point of view.

Like lantririel, we did a Vegas one last time.  Because we were owners elsewhere (don't ask), we were promised no videos / trapped in a room, etc.

What actually happened:

1.  Met, signed in, and recieved a personal sales person.
2. Did the property and apartment tour, ate a free lunch at the restaurant with the sales person.
3.  Sat down for a video -- we stood up and started to leave, but they said it was not the cattle call one (we were one of two in the room, and it was short).
4.  Declined formally in the sales room.
5.  Had to talk to the guy's manager, and declined again.  She kept showing better and better offers.  "here is one that was returned to us and I can offer it to you for 35% less than the best price I already showed you". And they kept leaving and making you wait 10minutes for the next person, but then it was the same person, etc.  Lots of waiting.  Lots of repeated no.  Good sales techniques for making you buy.  (some people call this agressive, but it wasn't pushy, just very compelling and I knew it was not a good deal while they said it, too, so I respect the technique).
6 .  Then we had to go to the "used / after market sales" guy.  Now the places were over 70% lower than woman upstairs -- still no.  This last ditch guy was rude after we said no for the second time.
7. Finally get passed to the "gift" room.  A long wait for the person to process our "gift -- Circ de Soleil tickets.

We left after about 3.5 hours, expecting the 90 minute to 2 hours.

But -- the circe de soliel -- on a weeknight, ended up upgrading at the venue for free to inner ring premier seats.  Wow.  :-) Amazing.

What would have helped -- go to here. www.TUG2.NET  print off the resale by owner values for the place you are visiting / surrounding area.   Bring this page with you.

After about 20 minutes, bring out the resale sheet and show your first sales person -- can you beat $3k on a unit and $500 per year of maintenance fees?  That is the going rate here...repeat with   " I am not interested at this time".."No".. "How about you ask your manager"...?   

Etc. and so on.    It will allow you to progress through the levels faster, anyway, if you bring your homework.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: MrThatsDifferent on September 01, 2018, 08:38:52 AM
I did this in Orlando to get half price tickets to Universal Studios. Was it worth 90 minutes of my time? Yes. Was it torturous? Absolutely. They will make you stay the whole time no matter what and my goodness the sales tactics! Every single one in the book. Hereís how you survive, become curious about what they do and how they do it. Observe everything. But insist that there is no way that you can afford it even though they will try to make it affordable. Donít pretend youíre interested, the goal is to get them to spend their energy on another sucker and give up on you. They are such scams, itís amazing to me that people sign.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: spicykissa on September 02, 2018, 02:45:10 AM
My parents did this when I was kid for discounted Disney World tickets. My brother threw a fit (like crying, rolling on the ground, complete meltdown) after awhile, because it was so boring, which I think helped get us out faster. So perhaps if you have an unruly child you could borrow, that might help?
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: jj2 on September 02, 2018, 09:57:02 PM
My wife and i sat through a timeshare presentation in Sedona several years ago.  This was an eye opening experience for both of us as we had never been through this before and were quite naive.  Neither of us really understood that the 'gift' being offered came with strings attached.  the resort was great and the salespeople were (of course) very nice.  We actually signed up for a trial 2 year 'membership' but never actually used it because we couldn't find any places we wanted to go.  Luckily, that was the end of it, and i consider it a good learning experience (yet another). 

Even though we got some good freebies (nice hotel, jeep tour), I would never do it again

But, that Sedona area - wow!  Stunning.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: Telecaster on September 02, 2018, 10:07:32 PM
My wife and I did it one time with Wyndam.    Gawd it was horrible.  I went in with an open mind, in that I was willing to listen to the guy's pitch.  But financially it doesn't make a lick of sense.  Then the guy became a total douchebag.  We wound up with $200 or something, but it was also 1.5 hours out of our vacation.  Never again.   
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: MrThatsDifferent on September 03, 2018, 05:34:16 AM
My wife and I did it one time with Wyndam.    Gawd it was horrible.  I went in with an open mind, in that I was willing to listen to the guy's pitch.  But financially it doesn't make a lick of sense.  Then the guy became a total douchebag.  We wound up with $200 or something, but it was also 1.5 hours out of our vacation.  Never again.

Yeah, they become quite mean when you donít sign up. Classic sales bullying. We did something nice for you, you owe us! Now, agree to our financially irresponsible offer!
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: MrSal on September 03, 2018, 06:14:05 PM
errr.... just say no?

I dont see, no matter what tactics they use - unless it involves blackmail in where their pointing a gun to your SO - how is it hard to deny something that you know before hand does not make sense.

I have been to 3-4 of these... while in the first one i had fun trying to retort their arguments with math and finance...  the others i just didnt care and kept saying thanks but no thanks. got out of there faster than the first few times.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: CCCA on September 05, 2018, 01:22:25 PM
errr.... just say no?

I dont see, no matter what tactics they use - unless it involves blackmail in where their pointing a gun to your SO - how is it hard to deny something that you know before hand does not make sense.

I have been to 3-4 of these... while in the first one i had fun trying to retort their arguments with math and finance...  the others i just didnt care and kept saying thanks but no thanks. got out of there faster than the first few times.


Yeah, we'll definitely say no.  I think more of the question is how to say no, i.e. what are the best and most effective ways to do it.  My wife and I aren't the most forceful of personalities (generally polite and quiet) so understanding what works and what doesn't will definitely help us be more effective in our refusals. 


Anyway, thanks to everyone for their stories and suggestions.  very fun to read.  I'll let you know how it goes (still a few more weeks till our trip).
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: Davnasty on September 05, 2018, 02:11:44 PM
When we did one of these we went way over the time limit but they had picked us up from another location so we couldn't just walk out, plus we wanted our gift card. We did try to move it along but they just kept using the "Ok, we'll let you go but just one more thing". We probably would have gotten out a little faster if we had been more forceful and pointed out the stated time limit. Saying you have something scheduled right after the normal allotted time is probably a good tactic.

One other thing I thought was interesting, there seemed to be a lot of people in the room who were signing up. I still wonder if that many people really end up buying or if they were planted to show us how happy everyone else was to purchase. And if they were legit buyers, did they pay the $999 (actually it may have been $0+annual fees, can't remember/wasn't listening) we finally got offered or did they pay the initial price of $30,000? Bad deal either way, but if they paid more than they had too? Ouch.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: ABC123 on September 05, 2018, 02:12:00 PM
When I was a kid my parents used to go to time share presentations.  I remember going to one with them, I think it was in Orlando, and after the guy was done they of course said no.  He kept on and on, and they finally told him they had planned to say no all along.  The guy went off on them.  How dare you come here and waste my time when you aren't even willing to consider it, blah blah blah.  It was pretty funny.  They still got the free park tickets, or whatever they got that time.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: acroy on September 05, 2018, 02:48:09 PM
my advise would be cancel the trip. Too much time and hassle. Pay your own way on vaca.

I've sat through a few of these in years past for the bennies, just kept saying no, but still, it wasted almost half a day of my life.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: SummerLovin on September 05, 2018, 04:03:02 PM
I've owned a timeshare for nearly 20 years and overpaid initially, it was still worth keeping.  If I had it to do over again, I would buy on secondary market. 
I've attended many presentations over the years since they are always looking to "upgrade" my ownership.
* Tell them upfront that you are only there for the freebies.
* Tell them you are not interested, and don't want to waste any more of their time or yours.
* Having 2 of you could work in your favor, you can play good cop, bad cop- "honey I told you this was a rip off" and start an argument, with dirty looks.
* Say you have something to do immediately after, if you can't lie then schedule something. (Make sure your presentation time is scheduled beforehand otherwise they might offer to put you in another slot)
* Go in with the costs of similar timeshares on the secondary market
*  Ask them why you'd pay for a timeshare when you can use that money to put down on a rental property, and gain equity
*  Ask to see the next manager in the chain
* Never tell them you can't afford it because they will find a way to get your "payments" low enough that you might consider it
I used to enjoy going to see the tactics, but now it's just tedious and the "gifts" are not worth my time.

What is your time worth? Only you can decide that.  Good Luck!
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: katsiki on September 05, 2018, 07:15:32 PM
my advise would be cancel the trip. Too much time and hassle. Pay your own way on vaca.

I've sat through a few of these in years past for the bennies, just kept saying no, but still, it wasted almost half a day of my life.
+1.  Totally agree.  Oh yea, I said that last week.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: boarder42 on September 05, 2018, 07:36:42 PM
my advise would be cancel the trip. Too much time and hassle. Pay your own way on vaca.

I've sat through a few of these in years past for the bennies, just kept saying no, but still, it wasted almost half a day of my life.
+1.  Totally agree.  Oh yea, I said that last week.

How much do you earn working. In most cases youre sacrificing 3 hours of total time for 2 people for 150 or more in value that's 50 bucks an hour. As many people as hate their jobs around here. This is a pretty easy way to make a quick buck.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: CCCA on September 05, 2018, 10:05:42 PM
my advise would be cancel the trip. Too much time and hassle. Pay your own way on vaca.

I've sat through a few of these in years past for the bennies, just kept saying no, but still, it wasted almost half a day of my life.
+1.  Totally agree.  Oh yea, I said that last week.

How much do you earn working. In most cases youre sacrificing 3 hours of total time for 2 people for 150 or more in value that's 50 bucks an hour. As many people as hate their jobs around here. This is a pretty easy way to make a quick buck.


we will get a $100 gift card while also getting our 3 night stay at a resort in Sedona for free.  Assuming conservatively the cost is about $150/night, we are getting a $550 value for a 1.5 - 2hr presentation that will range somewhere between amused indifference to painfully frustrating.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: zolotiyeruki on September 06, 2018, 06:53:44 AM
We did it once.  Here's what we learned:

1) leave once you've hit the allotted time
2) if you have options for your gift, get the one that you receive immediately, i.e. NOT a voucher.
3) be firm and say no.  And no.  And no.

The price they quoted us was something like $26,000 plus over $1000/year in maintenance fees for one week per year at a mid-tier place.  The funny thing is that just a year or two earlier, we had rented one of those timeshares for a week, and it only cost us about $1,300 for a full condo that slept our family of 8 and included a full kitchen.

The maintenance fees astound me.  If you assume that the up-front payment covers the capital cost of the building, that means that the company gets $52,000 per year in maintenance fees for a two-bedroom condo.  That's more than enough to rebuild the entire thing from the studs out, and still have plenty left over.  Sure, they have a cleaning crew, and maintenance for the common areas, but it's not that much.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: robartsd on September 06, 2018, 11:38:46 AM
The maintenance fees astound me.  If you assume that the up-front payment covers the capital cost of the building, that means that the company gets $52,000 per year in maintenance fees for a two-bedroom condo.  That's more than enough to rebuild the entire thing from the studs out, and still have plenty left over.  Sure, they have a cleaning crew, and maintenance for the common areas, but it's not that much.
Yep, the maintenance costs tend to be comparable to the price a savvy shopper can get booking a stay directly - just low enough that if you actually use it regularly it makes sense to keep it, but not low enough that it makes sense to buy it.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: zolotiyeruki on September 06, 2018, 12:25:54 PM
The maintenance fees astound me.  If you assume that the up-front payment covers the capital cost of the building, that means that the company gets $52,000 per year in maintenance fees for a two-bedroom condo.  That's more than enough to rebuild the entire thing from the studs out, and still have plenty left over.  Sure, they have a cleaning crew, and maintenance for the common areas, but it's not that much.
Yep, the maintenance costs tend to be comparable to the price a savvy shopper can get booking a stay directly - just low enough that if you actually use it regularly it makes sense to keep it, but not low enough that it makes sense to buy it.
But once you factor in the opportunity cost of the $26k, the numbers are terrible.  If you assume 7% returns in the market, the timeshare now costs you ($1000/yr maintenance + $1,400 foregone returns) = $2400 for a week of accommodations.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: EconDiva on September 06, 2018, 12:43:36 PM
I've only done 2 of these I think.

The last one in Aruba was horrible.  I was willing not to go but they said we were getting $100 dinner gift cards each.  I was hesitant as I didn't want to spend 2 hours there.  They told us it was 90 minutes but I estimated a bit over 2 hours just knowing it would take longer.

Well it took about 4.  And they argued we would get $50 gift cards for dinner instead of $100.  I hate being less than nice to people but I had to be the one to stand up in our group and argue against it because it wasn't what we were told.  I would have much rather spent the time enjoying Aruba and pay for my dinner that night than spend 4 hours with those people.  And they were so rude about the gift card thing at the end.  I was upfront at the beginning and say how much I paid to stay there and prefer to travel for free so I'm not buying.  Said that in Cancun and they still put the pressure on as always but I just keep repeating the same thing about traveling for free/close to free and thus not being interested.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: Curmudgeon on September 06, 2018, 01:57:30 PM
The maintenance fees astound me.  If you assume that the up-front payment covers the capital cost of the building, that means that the company gets $52,000 per year in maintenance fees for a two-bedroom condo.  That's more than enough to rebuild the entire thing from the studs out, and still have plenty left over.  Sure, they have a cleaning crew, and maintenance for the common areas, but it's not that much.
Yep, the maintenance costs tend to be comparable to the price a savvy shopper can get booking a stay directly - just low enough that if you actually use it regularly it makes sense to keep it, but not low enough that it makes sense to buy it.
But once you factor in the opportunity cost of the $26k, the numbers are terrible.  If you assume 7% returns in the market, the timeshare now costs you ($1000/yr maintenance + $1,400 foregone returns) = $2400 for a week of accommodations.

This reminds me of the last time I went to one of these, 30ish years ago... The salesman started off trying to sell it to me as an investment.  But I pointed out that I had seen lots of second-hand timeshares for sale at lower price than what he was quoting, so I asked how it could possibly be a good investment if the price went down after you bought it.  He then switched to say "You don't buy this as in investment, you buy it as a place to spend quality time - you're buying the experience!"  I then pointed out that for about the cost of the yearly maintenance + booking fees, we could afford to just rent a place wherever we wanted, he said "Yeah, but it's not about just getting a vacation, it's an investment.  At which point I stared at him while his brain caught up to the fact that he had just come full circle and contradicted himself, and he sheepishly ruffled through some papers on his desk.  The presentation ended very shortly after that.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: robartsd on September 07, 2018, 09:42:54 AM
But once you factor in the opportunity cost of the $26k, the numbers are terrible.  If you assume 7% returns in the market, the timeshare now costs you ($1000/yr maintenance + $1,400 foregone returns) = $2400 for a week of accommodations.
Exactly what I said, the costs are too high to justify the purchase. However, once it is owned, the opportunity cost switches from the original sale price to the fair market value on the secondary market minus seller transaction costs. As soon as you buy, you loose the difference.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: MrSal on September 07, 2018, 04:33:53 PM
errr.... just say no?

I dont see, no matter what tactics they use - unless it involves blackmail in where their pointing a gun to your SO - how is it hard to deny something that you know before hand does not make sense.

I have been to 3-4 of these... while in the first one i had fun trying to retort their arguments with math and finance...  the others i just didnt care and kept saying thanks but no thanks. got out of there faster than the first few times.


Yeah, we'll definitely say no.  I think more of the question is how to say no, i.e. what are the best and most effective ways to do it.  My wife and I aren't the most forceful of personalities (generally polite and quiet) so understanding what works and what doesn't will definitely help us be more effective in our refusals. 


Anyway, thanks to everyone for their stories and suggestions.  very fun to read.  I'll let you know how it goes (still a few more weeks till our trip).

I undestand your position, but if you try to be polite and give reasons not to go for it, they will always come back with a solution - Sales 101. I did it the first time and they kept coming back at me with a solution. "Oh you dont have money? Here's a loan for only 120$ month" and so forth ... it's best to say... Sorry but I am not interested at all. I'm here for the freebie and am not interested in the offer. Thank you.

Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: I'm a red panda on September 07, 2018, 06:58:00 PM
This is probably not the MMM answer but I wouldn't go.  Not worth the hassle and BS.  These salespeople are worse than the worst car salesmen.

I couldn't tell you what Pete things; but a lot of what he espouses is about maximizing happiness.  I wouldn't subject myself to this BS.  Unless I was getting a hotel and flight comped in Fiji, I'd just rather pay the vacation myself.

We were recently at a nice place in Missouri, and they called us a few times about the timeshare in exchange for like $500 in theme park tickets.  We were going to sacrifice one of the sets of adults, but they told us ALL occupants had to be there for the 3 hours.  - 4 adults, 1 infant, 1 toddler, and 3 children? NO WAY.  They told us "oh we specialize in kids, they'll love it".  I have a hard time believing that... 
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: Duke03 on September 07, 2018, 07:44:30 PM
I've only done a time share once.  We had a long vacation planned and had some down time one day so why not get some free stuff.  First they will try every hard sell bs tactic known to man.  After turning down their great offers at least 10 times I just laid it on the line.  I explained to them that I haven't paid for a vacation or flights in over 6 years thanks to credit card churning and if I can stay at their resort for free why would I pay 10k to come back.  The guy then claimed I was taking advantage of the system and I should buy the time share out of guilt.  Yea ok buddy I laughed in his face.  The best part was they had a cattle call of people ready to sign up in the lobby.  I've never seen so many suckers in my life.  I kept reminding him that he was wasting his time with us and that his next sale was waiting in the lobby....  Well not that one because your buddy just got to those people first.  Man they look rich and I bet they buy the diamond package.... After about 5 mins of comments like this we got our free gift and left.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: frugaliknowit on September 11, 2018, 09:33:09 AM
This is probably not the MMM answer but I wouldn't go.  Not worth the hassle and BS.  These salespeople are worse than the worst car salesmen.

+1

My vacation time is too precious for this BS:)
Title: Update on trip to Sedona and timeshare presentation
Post by: CCCA on September 24, 2018, 11:45:30 AM
***Update on our Trip***
Thanks everyone for your tips.  My wife and I went to the presentation in Sedona and it was actually pretty fascinating.  It ended up at 2.5 hours total, but mostly very pleasant and interesting, and we learned alot about Diamond's new timeshare business model (which is very different from our conception of a traditional timeshare). We had a fairly young guy who did our sales presentation and it became clear to him early on that he probably wasn't going to convince us. This is a fairly detailed rundown of what happened:
Overall, we actually enjoyed the process, except for the last part with their closers.  Our sales guy was young and he seemed to understand our life/work/travel philosophy.  He chimed in that he was interested in living in a tiny house.  We gave him some financial advice about not inflating his spending too much as he made more money.  He said their closing rate on selling people into their program was about 17% as a company but his rate was higher. 

I would probably do it again, because our guy was pretty nice.  However, I could imagine that having the manager as our seller instead of the guy we got would make the process a bit less pleasant. Not sure if the primary guy is normally "the good cop", or if we just got lucky. 

I could sort of see how this program could make sense for some people if they spent enough money on travel or aspired to, especially if you didn't buy from them but bought with little to no upfront cost.  It seemed a little bit like Costco.  You could potentially get good deals out of a club program if you used it alot and actually wanted that much stuff.  However, because points are some nebulous thing and you have to book everything through their website, I'm assuming they can tailor your cost to book a place in a very non-transparent way, so that your 4000 points will get devalued over time (even as they claim your maintenance fees will never go up).  It's not like airline miles, where everyone knows the # of miles for a domestic flight (e.g. 25000) and it's a big deal when they up the # of miles needed for a domestic flight.  Instead, it's very non-transparent.  Our guy said if we were frugal and booked studios instead of one bedrooms we could stretch our points and maybe get 4 weeks instead of two weeks out of them, but we never really did get a concrete sense of how many points a typical stay would cost (and what the variability was and what factors affects the cost (e.g. booking early, etc)).

Overall it wasn't an unpleasant experience and we were glad to have done it and gotten a very highly discounted trip (maybe $500+ worth of accommodations for $50) and we used our southwest miles to book our flights to PHX.  We got stuck with a minivan at the rental car place but still only used about $38 worth of gas for the 4 days. 

Sedona was awesome by the way.  Hot (in the 90s most days) but hiking in the morning or around sunset wasn't too bad.  There are lots of beautiful hikes that are short and high impact, like 1 mile hike to the top of huge red-rock tower/mesa/butte thing.  Town was cute and lots of touristy but interesting shops.  Restaurants weren't too cheap but not crazy expensive either.  We spent about $35/meal for two and we don't drink.  Luckily breakfast was included in the hotel.  Great views of red rocks from the hotel and lots of restaurants.

thanks again for the interesting discussion and tips.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: boarder42 on September 24, 2018, 12:25:20 PM
are you being sarcastic about the time share being different than other b/c most time shares now basically run on points systems now backed by deeds at properties. Marriott, Hilton, Blue Green, etc. are all points based systems you're deeded a week somewhere still as the underlying " value" but they arent new and different they are the status quo for the large timeshare outfits.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: CCCA on September 24, 2018, 12:49:33 PM
are you being sarcastic about the time share being different than other b/c most time shares now basically run on points systems now backed by deeds at properties. Marriott, Hilton, Blue Green, etc. are all points based systems you're deeded a week somewhere still as the underlying " value" but they arent new and different they are the status quo for the large timeshare outfits.


No, my only experience with timeshares was with my parents attending a talk 30+ years ago.  As stated early, we've never done this before and didn't know anyone who did recently. Thanks for the additional info.  I'll assume we aren't the only ones who were clueless about the new style of timeshares.
Title: Re: Update on trip to Sedona and timeshare presentation
Post by: I'm a red panda on September 24, 2018, 01:25:25 PM

I could sort of see how this program could make sense for some people if they spent enough money on travel or aspired to.  It seemed a little bit like Costco.  You could potentially get good deals out of a club program if you used it alot and actually wanted that much stuff.  However, because points are some nebulous thing and you have to book everything through their website, I'm assuming they can tailor your cost to book a place in a very non-transparent way, so that your 4000 points will get devalued over time (even as they claim your maintenance fees will never go up).  It's not like airline miles, where everyone knows the # of miles for a domestic flight (e.g. 25000) and it's a big deal when they up the # of miles needed for a domestic flight.  Instead, it's very non-transparent.  Our guy said if we were frugal and booked studios instead of one bedrooms we could stretch our points and maybe get 4 weeks instead of two weeks out of them, but we never really did get a concrete sense of how many points a typical stay would cost (and what the variability was and what factors affects the cost (e.g. booking early, etc)).


Glad it worked for you, and glad you didn't buy.  Because this is exactly why they want butts in the seat.  It sounds like a great deal that makes sense. By and large, they never do.

What you describe is how almost every timeshare works.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: Davnasty on September 25, 2018, 07:00:51 AM
are you being sarcastic about the time share being different than other b/c most time shares now basically run on points systems now backed by deeds at properties. Marriott, Hilton, Blue Green, etc. are all points based systems you're deeded a week somewhere still as the underlying " value" but they arent new and different they are the status quo for the large timeshare outfits.


No, my only experience with timeshares was with my parents attending a talk 30+ years ago.  As stated early, we've never done this before and didn't know anyone who did recently. Thanks for the additional info.  I'll assume we aren't the only ones who were clueless about the new style of timeshares.

Ya, this seems to be the norm now. Of all the advice given I can't believe no one brought this up.

And $1700 annual fees? Holy crap.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: boarder42 on September 25, 2018, 07:55:19 AM
are you being sarcastic about the time share being different than other b/c most time shares now basically run on points systems now backed by deeds at properties. Marriott, Hilton, Blue Green, etc. are all points based systems you're deeded a week somewhere still as the underlying " value" but they arent new and different they are the status quo for the large timeshare outfits.


No, my only experience with timeshares was with my parents attending a talk 30+ years ago.  As stated early, we've never done this before and didn't know anyone who did recently. Thanks for the additional info.  I'll assume we aren't the only ones who were clueless about the new style of timeshares.

Ya, this seems to be the norm now. Of all the advice given I can't believe no one brought this up.

And $1700 annual fees? Holy crap.

its all relative - after extensive research i decided to inherit my grandfather's time share which is 2k in annual fees - i inherited it with my dad so it will either be solely mine when he dies or we can pay 450 to remove me from it and it can die with him if the fees increase too much - but as i stated earlier - if the up front costs are avoided or minimized buying on the second hand market you can really get some good deals with time shares - My wife and i are taking her parents to Kauai for the first time(for them) in May of next year - we have an ocean front 3 bedroom condo for 700 bucks for a week(equated points to dollar ratio) - you arent going to get that deal without a timeshare i travel a ton and no Air bnB or VRBO is going to be that cheap.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: Goldielocks on September 25, 2018, 10:34:13 AM
are you being sarcastic about the time share being different than other b/c most time shares now basically run on points systems now backed by deeds at properties. Marriott, Hilton, Blue Green, etc. are all points based systems you're deeded a week somewhere still as the underlying " value" but they arent new and different they are the status quo for the large timeshare outfits.
No, my only experience with timeshares was with my parents attending a talk 30+ years ago.  As stated early, we've never done this before and didn't know anyone who did recently. Thanks for the additional info.  I'll assume we aren't the only ones who were clueless about the new style of timeshares.

Ya, this seems to be the norm now. Of all the advice given I can't believe no one brought this up.

And $1700 annual fees? Holy crap.

its all relative - after extensive research i decided to inherit my grandfather's time share which is 2k in annual fees - i inherited it with my dad so it will either be solely mine when he dies or we can pay 450 to remove me from it and it can die with him if the fees increase too much - but as i stated earlier - if the up front costs are avoided or minimized buying on the second hand market you can really get some good deals with time shares - My wife and i are taking her parents to Kauai for the first time(for them) in May of next year - we have an ocean front 3 bedroom condo for 700 bucks for a week(equated points to dollar ratio) - you arent going to get that deal without a timeshare i travel a ton and no Air bnB or VRBO is going to be that cheap.


How does $2k translate down to $700 for the week?  is $2k for 3 weeks of use?

Also check out tug2.net....  lots of options for hawaii, some by owners renting their week for the value of the maintenance fees alone, so no need to commit to having one.  *

* I am not putting down your choice, as I own a timeshare myself for the past 15 years, but now would like to get out of it after much previous use, as I can find the 2nd market rentals of them for cheap and I only use it the years that I choose to fly somewhere, not every year.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: CCCA on September 25, 2018, 11:12:40 AM

its all relative - after extensive research i decided to inherit my grandfather's time share which is 2k in annual fees - i inherited it with my dad so it will either be solely mine when he dies or we can pay 450 to remove me from it and it can die with him if the fees increase too much - but as i stated earlier - if the up front costs are avoided or minimized buying on the second hand market you can really get some good deals with time shares - My wife and i are taking her parents to Kauai for the first time(for them) in May of next year - we have an ocean front 3 bedroom condo for 700 bucks for a week(equated points to dollar ratio) - you arent going to get that deal without a timeshare i travel a ton and no Air bnB or VRBO is going to be that cheap.


Yeah, as I mentioned.  From my quick math at the presentation, if you want to resort it up, and you don't have the upfront outlay, the maintenance fees seem to give a decent nightly rate.  So the value is potentially there, but only if you would use it.  We didn't so we passed. 



How does $2k translate down to $700 for the week?  is $2k for 3 weeks of use?

Also check out tug2.net....  lots of options for hawaii, some by owners renting their week for the value of the maintenance fees alone, so no need to commit to having one.  *

* I am not putting down your choice, as I own a timeshare myself for the past 15 years, but now would like to get out of it after much previous use, as I can find the 2nd market rentals of them for cheap and I only use it the years that I choose to fly somewhere, not every year.


Do you have to join tug2 to see the deals?  I looked on their website but couldn't quite figure it out. Just curious as to how much some of these deals might be.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: boarder42 on September 25, 2018, 11:36:49 AM

its all relative - after extensive research i decided to inherit my grandfather's time share which is 2k in annual fees - i inherited it with my dad so it will either be solely mine when he dies or we can pay 450 to remove me from it and it can die with him if the fees increase too much - but as i stated earlier - if the up front costs are avoided or minimized buying on the second hand market you can really get some good deals with time shares - My wife and i are taking her parents to Kauai for the first time(for them) in May of next year - we have an ocean front 3 bedroom condo for 700 bucks for a week(equated points to dollar ratio) - you arent going to get that deal without a timeshare i travel a ton and no Air bnB or VRBO is going to be that cheap.


Yeah, as I mentioned.  From my quick math at the presentation, if you want to resort it up, and you don't have the upfront outlay, the maintenance fees seem to give a decent nightly rate.  So the value is potentially there, but only if you would use it.  We didn't so we passed. 



How does $2k translate down to $700 for the week?  is $2k for 3 weeks of use?

Also check out tug2.net....  lots of options for hawaii, some by owners renting their week for the value of the maintenance fees alone, so no need to commit to having one.  *

* I am not putting down your choice, as I own a timeshare myself for the past 15 years, but now would like to get out of it after much previous use, as I can find the 2nd market rentals of them for cheap and I only use it the years that I choose to fly somewhere, not every year.


Do you have to join tug2 to see the deals?  I looked on their website but couldn't quite figure it out. Just curious as to how much some of these deals might be.

The value is not there from an initial purchase plus fees perspective.  And it's not necessarily resorting it up it's a beach front condo in Kauai for 700 a week. You can't hardly stay in a hostel there for that price. Plus full kitchen so you don't have to eat out etc. If you travel a lot it's actually  worth exploring the second hand market.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: boarder42 on September 25, 2018, 12:44:49 PM
are you being sarcastic about the time share being different than other b/c most time shares now basically run on points systems now backed by deeds at properties. Marriott, Hilton, Blue Green, etc. are all points based systems you're deeded a week somewhere still as the underlying " value" but they arent new and different they are the status quo for the large timeshare outfits.
No, my only experience with timeshares was with my parents attending a talk 30+ years ago.  As stated early, we've never done this before and didn't know anyone who did recently. Thanks for the additional info.  I'll assume we aren't the only ones who were clueless about the new style of timeshares.

Ya, this seems to be the norm now. Of all the advice given I can't believe no one brought this up.

And $1700 annual fees? Holy crap.

its all relative - after extensive research i decided to inherit my grandfather's time share which is 2k in annual fees - i inherited it with my dad so it will either be solely mine when he dies or we can pay 450 to remove me from it and it can die with him if the fees increase too much - but as i stated earlier - if the up front costs are avoided or minimized buying on the second hand market you can really get some good deals with time shares - My wife and i are taking her parents to Kauai for the first time(for them) in May of next year - we have an ocean front 3 bedroom condo for 700 bucks for a week(equated points to dollar ratio) - you arent going to get that deal without a timeshare i travel a ton and no Air bnB or VRBO is going to be that cheap.


How does $2k translate down to $700 for the week?  is $2k for 3 weeks of use?

Also check out tug2.net....  lots of options for hawaii, some by owners renting their week for the value of the maintenance fees alone, so no need to commit to having one.  *

* I am not putting down your choice, as I own a timeshare myself for the past 15 years, but now would like to get out of it after much previous use, as I can find the 2nd market rentals of them for cheap and I only use it the years that I choose to fly somewhere, not every year.

the 2k is for a pool of points the points necessary for the week translate to 700 dollars give or take.  its not a single time share for one week its the points style.  does that make sense.  so essentially we're getting this place for the cost of the maintenance fees. just like we would on tug2.net.   I'll check it out for future and to determine if we should keep this.  We can make money selling it about 3-4k based on what i've seen.  Its not a single hawaii resort they have 60 resorts nationwide we can use.

so i just checked it on tug and pono kai the resort we have a 3bedroom (its a 2 bed with a loft sleeps 8) has an add for 1 bed 1 bath for 900 bucks so we're still coming out way ahead here using this timeshare for kauai.  other locations probably dont have as high a return but its a super deal to use this for hawaii and its not hard to get you just have to plan a year ahead.  if we were in the same week as the 1 br on there it would come in at around 1k in dollars so still quite far ahead.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: Goldielocks on September 25, 2018, 12:51:33 PM
https://tug2.com/timeshare-rentals/
 (https://tug2.com/timeshare-rentals/)



It is in the "timeshare marketplace". "timeshares for rent" on the left menu.   Open to all to view and contact for the rentals and resales. Only need a membership (less than $10) to post.

Right now for Kauai, the cheapest unit that is at least 3 bedrooms or more is $1800 for a week.  The cheapest 2 bedroom units are under $1000 for the week. (One in November for only $225 due to short notice/ low season).
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: Goldielocks on September 25, 2018, 01:00:34 PM

the 2k is for a pool of points the points necessary for the week translate to 700 dollars give or take.  its not a single time share for one week its the points style.  does that make sense.  so essentially we're getting this place for the cost of the maintenance fees. just like we would on tug2.net.   I'll check it out for future and to determine if we should keep this.  We can make money selling it about 3-4k based on what i've seen.  Its not a single hawaii resort they have 60 resorts nationwide we can use.

so i just checked it on tug and pono kai the resort we have a 3bedroom (its a 2 bed with a loft sleeps 8) has an add for 1 bed 1 bath for 900 bucks so we're still coming out way ahead here using this timeshare for kauai.  other locations probably dont have as high a return but its a super deal to use this for hawaii and its not hard to get you just have to plan a year ahead.

Okay - I am asking because I am looking for ways to get more value out of my own timeshare "points" (RCI).
If you have any suggestions??

For mine, I get annual points that cost me just under $800/yr maintenance plus RCI fee of $135/yr = $935/yr CDN.  The value of the points when resold are 1 cent USD per point, so my annual week's worth of point is valued around $USD 550 per year= $740 CDN.  Right now, a net loss of about $200/yr, which is not so bad, if I get that value and more in the years that I use it.   I would just only use it 1 out of 3 years, however...

I agree that the value is there for the years that I use it, although the initial "investment" is pretty much a loss.

But.. I am having trouble selling off my points this year,  I did get one interested person calling who then bought points from someone else when I took a bit too long to reply.  I have sold points once before, and rented it out to a guest before, too.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: boarder42 on September 25, 2018, 01:10:49 PM

the 2k is for a pool of points the points necessary for the week translate to 700 dollars give or take.  its not a single time share for one week its the points style.  does that make sense.  so essentially we're getting this place for the cost of the maintenance fees. just like we would on tug2.net.   I'll check it out for future and to determine if we should keep this.  We can make money selling it about 3-4k based on what i've seen.  Its not a single hawaii resort they have 60 resorts nationwide we can use.

so i just checked it on tug and pono kai the resort we have a 3bedroom (its a 2 bed with a loft sleeps 8) has an add for 1 bed 1 bath for 900 bucks so we're still coming out way ahead here using this timeshare for kauai.  other locations probably dont have as high a return but its a super deal to use this for hawaii and its not hard to get you just have to plan a year ahead.

Okay - I am asking because I am looking for ways to get more value out of my own timeshare "points" (RCI).
If you have any suggestions??

For mine, I get annual points that cost me just under $800/yr maintenance plus RCI fee of $135/yr = $935/yr CDN.  The value of the points when resold are 1 cent USD per point, so my annual week's worth of point is valued around $USD 550 per year= $740 CDN.  Right now, a net loss of about $200/yr, which is not so bad, if I get that value and more in the years that I use it.   I would just only use it 1 out of 3 years, however...

I agree that the value is there for the years that I use it, although the initial "investment" is pretty much a loss.

But.. I am having trouble selling off my points this year,  I did get one interested person calling who then bought points from someone else when I took a bit too long to reply.  I have sold points once before, and rented it out to a guest before, too.

ours is with blue green we get the most value just using the points in the system they have and using some cool hacks to make points go farther - for example weekends are typically 3-4x as many points as weekdays - but they have something called bonus time(only bookable 45 days out) - so what we do is we book our stay 11 months in advance then 45 days before we go we call and ask to cancel the weekend days and rebook them with bonus time if the costs work out which it usually does.  i dont really know how to leverage other timeshares all my focus has been on ours.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: Goldielocks on September 25, 2018, 02:06:28 PM
Thanks.  I have ways to leverage for more time (and cheaper time), but trying to scale down from 1x per year to 1x every 3 years is harder.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: NumberJohnny5 on September 25, 2018, 08:05:14 PM
Told my wife that if we ever buy a timeshare, it'll be with Disney. That's the only one that could, possibly, be considered an investment. That said, they have the lowest pressure presentations of any I've been to. If you sign up for one of their presentations, make sure you go to the one at Key West, particularly if you do it on a day you're not visiting the parks. Kids have fun at their kids' club thing, there are free snacks, and free ice cream at the end (we're talking the good kind, with toppings).  The incentives are low and change, sometimes a $15 giftcard is offered, all three times we chose the super fastpass (don't know the official name, but it's loaded with like five fastpasses per card; there's no time restrictions, you can literally walk up, get a fastpass ticket, then go straight to the fastpass line). They even picked us up and dropped us off at our (Disney) campsite.

Every other one though...our experiences have varied from "annoying" to "awful". It'd have to be a really good deal to do another. And I agree, don't give them any objections they've already heard that day. I just keep quiet until it's getting close to time (most claim 90-120 minutes, I start looking at my watch at the 90 minute mark and give a ten minute warning at the 110 mark, something like "let's hurry and do the tour, only have 10 minutes left").
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: MrsPete on September 25, 2018, 08:46:02 PM
My parents loved time share presentations, and I've done a couple as an adult.  It's easy to "win" the game: 

- They have great places for your kids to play.  When we were teens, we loved for our parents to drop us off where we could play video games. 

- First they'll give you a small meal.  Note that this is NOT part of your 90 minute commitment; however, the salesperson will chat with you during your meal.  Reality:  He or she is sizing you up -- do you have kids? do you vacation with your elderly parents?  do you want a place with tennis courts, or a place right on the beach?  This is when he or she decides just which tactics to use.  If you want to eat, by all means, do.  If you want to minimize your time, skip the meal.  Casually mention your restaurant reservations or your tee time, which is -- of course -- 90 minutes + 1 hour away. 

- The first portion of the sales pitch will be about the importance of vacations, family time, time away from your job and stress.  Agree.  Agree.  Agree.  It's how you move on quickly; in fact, be proactive and jump right in by explaining that you're completely devoted to your family's vacations and how you don't need to be convinced that "promising yourself" a vacation each and every year is a great idea.  The more you agree, the faster things move.

- The second portion will be fuzzy math:  Buy in, get a condo for the price of a hotel room ... have a kitchen ... several bedrooms so the kids can spread out ...  Agree.  Agree.  Agree.  Again, it's how you move on quickly.  If you really want to put the thing on roller skates, talk about how you already own one time share and are anxious to have a second -- or how much your parents or your brothers love theirs, and how much money they save.  Start to emphasize your excitement about seeing the condo itself; the sooner you do the tour, the sooner you're done.  Point out the time, and remind your salesperson that you were silly enough to have made that reservation, and you must watch your time.

- Finally you get to the condo tour.  You love it.  Gush over everything.  It's exactly the right size for your family.  Start to talk about your vacation plans, and emphasize your serious interest in getting down to some serious numbers.

- At this point you'll return to the sales office, and your salesperson will finally show you THE COST of the condo you just saw.  At this point, you are shocked. What?  It's THIS MUCH?  But how can this be?  No, no, your neighbor didn't pay anything like this for his time share!  You open your purse, and you show your print-outs of what this time share costs on the resale market (hint, 5-10% of the full price).  You are dismayed.  How can such a large investment instantly drop by 90% or more?  Why should you even consider buying "new" when the resale market is so much lower?  Hint:  The salesperson cannot answer this question.  No answer exists. 

- Your salesperson will bring in the manager, who will attempt to "close you" by emphasizing that buying "new" gives you  some nice benefits:  maybe the first year you'll receive a free week, maybe you'll get two airline tickets.  You point out that these things STILL don't add up to the price difference between "new" and resale.  They warn you that this price is going to increase in only two weeks!  A new portion of the time share will be opening next month, and the prices will shoot up by 10-15% -- buy now!  The manager points out that by purchasing directly from them, you'll be backed by the company.  You are now more shocked than ever -- you don't stand behind ALL your owners? 

- You're so confused.  Thank the salesperson for his or her time, ask for your tickets or gifts or whatever, and leave. 
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: NumberJohnny5 on September 25, 2018, 09:28:43 PM
 
Why should you even consider buying "new" when the resale market is so much lower?  Hint:  The salesperson cannot answer this question.  No answer exists. 

Just going to point out that an answer DOES exist. All the major ones (including Disney) offer extra perks to people who buy directly from them, and not on the resale market. Things like priority booking ("real" owners may get to prebook 12 months out, while the lower class has to wait until 6 months out). There's often a way around this though, such as having a minimum amount of points purchased directly and the rest via resale market.

I often agree with them, but in such a way that it doesn't work with their scripts. Saying "yes, vacations are very important to us" and "no, they're not that important" have one thing in common...they're both common answers that can be prepared for. I'd say something like "Travel is very important to us, one of the reasons my wife is a travel nurse is so we can get paid to go to all these wonderful places!" Not a common answer.

I'll even admit that my goto "just be silent and give minimal answers" is common enough that it can be addressed in a script. Such as them asking my wife if I don't allow her to speak (she was being quiet-ish, but not as much as me). The idea is to throw you off balance. Heck, one guy asked if we had a problem because he was black, then he got a white dude to take over. I wonder whether that tactic actually ever worked. Well, I guess it worked in the sense that he could move to someone else.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: OrchardTree on September 27, 2018, 07:09:37 AM
Please don't compare timeshares to Costco.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: I'm a red panda on September 27, 2018, 07:16:48 AM
are you being sarcastic about the time share being different than other b/c most time shares now basically run on points systems now backed by deeds at properties. Marriott, Hilton, Blue Green, etc. are all points based systems you're deeded a week somewhere still as the underlying " value" but they arent new and different they are the status quo for the large timeshare outfits.


No, my only experience with timeshares was with my parents attending a talk 30+ years ago.  As stated early, we've never done this before and didn't know anyone who did recently. Thanks for the additional info.  I'll assume we aren't the only ones who were clueless about the new style of timeshares.

Ya, this seems to be the norm now. Of all the advice given I can't believe no one brought this up.

And $1700 annual fees? Holy crap.

its all relative - after extensive research i decided to inherit my grandfather's time share which is 2k in annual fees - i inherited it with my dad so it will either be solely mine when he dies or we can pay 450 to remove me from it and it can die with him if the fees increase too much - but as i stated earlier - if the up front costs are avoided or minimized buying on the second hand market you can really get some good deals with time shares - My wife and i are taking her parents to Kauai for the first time(for them) in May of next year - we have an ocean front 3 bedroom condo for 700 bucks for a week(equated points to dollar ratio) - you arent going to get that deal without a timeshare i travel a ton and no Air bnB or VRBO is going to be that cheap.

You have to pay to not inherit something? How does that work? Why should someone dying obligate you to pay for this?
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: I'm a red panda on September 27, 2018, 07:17:12 AM
Told my wife that if we ever buy a timeshare, it'll be with Disney. That's the only one that could, possibly, be considered an investment. That said, they have the lowest pressure presentations of any I've been to. If you sign up for one of their presentations, make sure you go to the one at Key West, particularly if you do it on a day you're not visiting the parks. Kids have fun at their kids' club thing, there are free snacks, and free ice cream at the end (we're talking the good kind, with toppings).  The incentives are low and change, sometimes a $15 giftcard is offered, all three times we chose the super fastpass (don't know the official name, but it's loaded with like five fastpasses per card; there's no time restrictions, you can literally walk up, get a fastpass ticket, then go straight to the fastpass line). They even picked us up and dropped us off at our (Disney) campsite.

Every other one though...our experiences have varied from "annoying" to "awful". It'd have to be a really good deal to do another. And I agree, don't give them any objections they've already heard that day. I just keep quiet until it's getting close to time (most claim 90-120 minutes, I start looking at my watch at the 90 minute mark and give a ten minute warning at the 110 mark, something like "let's hurry and do the tour, only have 10 minutes left").

Still way cheaper to just buy points from someone else to use their Disney timeshare for a single stay. 
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: boarder42 on September 27, 2018, 07:28:36 AM
are you being sarcastic about the time share being different than other b/c most time shares now basically run on points systems now backed by deeds at properties. Marriott, Hilton, Blue Green, etc. are all points based systems you're deeded a week somewhere still as the underlying " value" but they arent new and different they are the status quo for the large timeshare outfits.


No, my only experience with timeshares was with my parents attending a talk 30+ years ago.  As stated early, we've never done this before and didn't know anyone who did recently. Thanks for the additional info.  I'll assume we aren't the only ones who were clueless about the new style of timeshares.

Ya, this seems to be the norm now. Of all the advice given I can't believe no one brought this up.

And $1700 annual fees? Holy crap.

its all relative - after extensive research i decided to inherit my grandfather's time share which is 2k in annual fees - i inherited it with my dad so it will either be solely mine when he dies or we can pay 450 to remove me from it and it can die with him if the fees increase too much - but as i stated earlier - if the up front costs are avoided or minimized buying on the second hand market you can really get some good deals with time shares - My wife and i are taking her parents to Kauai for the first time(for them) in May of next year - we have an ocean front 3 bedroom condo for 700 bucks for a week(equated points to dollar ratio) - you arent going to get that deal without a timeshare i travel a ton and no Air bnB or VRBO is going to be that cheap.

You have to pay to not inherit something? How does that work? Why should someone dying obligate you to pay for this?

there is a 450 dollar fee to transfer the "deed" over just like if someone died and left you a house you'd have to pay to reprocess paperwork.  I am now on the deed - if i don't want to keep it when my dad is close to his death then i will just pay to re "deed" the property in solely his name and it will die with him.  it likely wont happen unless it falls apart.  currently the ownership group is buying points back when people try to sell them for less than 25c per point.  so you can get 30c a point right now on the open market.  making ours worth around 8k if we were to sell.  Obviously much less than the cost per point my grand parents paid but not worthless like most of these are.   

I need to re run my numbers and see if its worth keeping that 8k tied up.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: talltexan on September 27, 2018, 08:44:12 AM
Told my wife that if we ever buy a timeshare, it'll be with Disney. That's the only one that could, possibly, be considered an investment. That said, they have the lowest pressure presentations of any I've been to. If you sign up for one of their presentations, make sure you go to the one at Key West, particularly if you do it on a day you're not visiting the parks. Kids have fun at their kids' club thing, there are free snacks, and free ice cream at the end (we're talking the good kind, with toppings).  The incentives are low and change, sometimes a $15 giftcard is offered, all three times we chose the super fastpass (don't know the official name, but it's loaded with like five fastpasses per card; there's no time restrictions, you can literally walk up, get a fastpass ticket, then go straight to the fastpass line). They even picked us up and dropped us off at our (Disney) campsite.

Every other one though...our experiences have varied from "annoying" to "awful". It'd have to be a really good deal to do another. And I agree, don't give them any objections they've already heard that day. I just keep quiet until it's getting close to time (most claim 90-120 minutes, I start looking at my watch at the 90 minute mark and give a ten minute warning at the 110 mark, something like "let's hurry and do the tour, only have 10 minutes left").

While Disney is not mustachian--and I spend a lot of money there myself--the secondary market for DVC points is robust. A modest stake in retail points allows you access to that secondary market, where the real value can be found. I'm not aware of any other secondary market for time share points that is..well..genuine.
Title: Re: Tips for surviving a timeshare presentation
Post by: boarder42 on September 27, 2018, 08:51:41 AM
Told my wife that if we ever buy a timeshare, it'll be with Disney. That's the only one that could, possibly, be considered an investment. That said, they have the lowest pressure presentations of any I've been to. If you sign up for one of their presentations, make sure you go to the one at Key West, particularly if you do it on a day you're not visiting the parks. Kids have fun at their kids' club thing, there are free snacks, and free ice cream at the end (we're talking the good kind, with toppings).  The incentives are low and change, sometimes a $15 giftcard is offered, all three times we chose the super fastpass (don't know the official name, but it's loaded with like five fastpasses per card; there's no time restrictions, you can literally walk up, get a fastpass ticket, then go straight to the fastpass line). They even picked us up and dropped us off at our (Disney) campsite.

Every other one though...our experiences have varied from "annoying" to "awful". It'd have to be a really good deal to do another. And I agree, don't give them any objections they've already heard that day. I just keep quiet until it's getting close to time (most claim 90-120 minutes, I start looking at my watch at the 90 minute mark and give a ten minute warning at the 110 mark, something like "let's hurry and do the tour, only have 10 minutes left").

While Disney is not mustachian--and I spend a lot of money there myself--the secondary market for DVC points is robust. A modest stake in retail points allows you access to that secondary market, where the real value can be found. I'm not aware of any other secondary market for time share points that is..well..genuine.

what do you mean by genuine you can buy almost all points for any time share second hand. You dont even have to buy points from the parent company first to do this in most cases.