Tips for longer term vacation rentals

[scottish]

I'm on the edge of RE (long past FI), and one of the things we'd like to do in the summer is spend a few months in the Canmore area.  (This is on the eastern edge of the Canadian rockies, about 1/2 hour outside of Banff.)    I'd also like to spend a few months out there skiing every winter.

We're not considering a permanent move at this time due to family obligations in Ontario.   Also DW and I both have chronic health conditions which require regular monitoring, etc., so finding medical care in a new province right now is a bit of a concern.

One option is to go and buy a condo in Canmore.    This seems like overkill although it would mean the ability to go out there whenever for as long as we want and come back whenever.   2 bedroom condos start in the mid 500's (CAD) and go up from there.    It would tie up a lot of capital in an asset with carrying costs of around 2% per year and historically low appreciation compared to the financial markets.   And there's the potential headache of dealing with problems from 2500 miles away.

I'd rather figure out how to do longer term vacation rentals.     In the past we've used VRBO and AirBNB.   This year prices are around 250-300/night, which translates into 7500-9000/month.    Sometimes small discounts (10-20%) are available for monthly rentals, but these numbers make the condo purchase look appealling...  i.e. 4 months rental is $30,000.

But there has to be a good way to do longer term rentals.     Has anyone done something similar?    I'm looking for some advice regarding how to find longer term rentals while avoiding scams and other problems.    The most obvious step I can think of is to consult with & possibly hire a real estate lawyer who can vet rental contracts and landlords.   And in a pinch, s/he could act on our behalf if problems arise when we're back in Ontario.    I expect an attorney would also provide us with credibility with the landlord.

[GilesMM]

Buy something cheaper, like a one bedroom for $150k.  Then rent it out when you are not there to defray the costs.

[scottish]

Buy something cheaper, like a one bedroom for $150k.  Then rent it out when you are not there to defray the costs.

Prices are similar all over the southern Canadian rockies.   There are some less expensive areas and some more expensive areas though, but not going from 500 -> 150.

[srrb]

Ptf

[Dave1442397]

Look for realtors that do short-term rentals, such as this one: https://peka.ab.ca/canmore-short-term-rentals

We're also planning to rent for at least a season in any place we're thinking about retiring to, just to get an idea of what life is like without buying anything.

[ToTheMoon]

Hey Scottish,

This doesn't help with your specific question, but we are discussing being away for the 2023-24 ski season, and have been talking about renting out our home while we are gone. (We are on the West side of the Rockies in Golden, BC - and the ski hill is Kicking Horse Mountain Resort.)

If you are not dead-set on Canmore, we should chat! (For reference, Lake Louise Resort is 1 hour East, Revelstoke is 1 1/2 hours West, and Radium Hot Springs are an hour South.)

[Freedomin5]

The only affordable option I can think of is a timeshare, but that’s not going to give you the entire peak summer season. Especially not in Canmore. Does it have to be Canmore, or can it be another less known town in the foothills of the Rockies?

We had a similar problem (we wanted to be in the Muskokas). The cheapest option for us was buying a place, especially because we knew we wanted to go back every summer. We rent it out to friends when we are not using it, to help offset costs. This way, we get first dibs in terms of using the cottage whenever we want, and we are guaranteed access to a cottage during peak season. We also bought the cottage with family, so we can split the costs of ownership.

The other option is going during the off-season/shoulder-season. You may have better luck getting someone to give you a discount for a longer-term rental in the spring (after ski season has ended and before the summer hiking season begins).

[scottish]

Look for realtors that do short-term rentals, such as this one: https://peka.ab.ca/canmore-short-term-rentals

We're also planning to rent for at least a season in any place we're thinking about retiring to, just to get an idea of what life is like without buying anything.

That's a good find.   I think Peka is actually a property management company.   Their rates are about 1/2 what you'd pay through VRBO or AirBNB, so this is a good option.

[scottish]

Hey Scottish,

This doesn't help with your specific question, but we are discussing being away for the 2023-24 ski season, and have been talking about renting out our home while we are gone. (We are on the West side of the Rockies in Golden, BC - and the ski hill is Kicking Horse Mountain Resort.)

If you are not dead-set on Canmore, we should chat! (For reference, Lake Louise Resort is 1 hour East, Revelstoke is 1 1/2 hours West, and Radium Hot Springs are an hour South.)

Golden's a nice location.   I've never skiied at Kicking Horse, but I hear the snow is excellent.   (We lived in Calgary in the 90's, but Kicking Horse didn't exist when we moved east.)  It's quite a bit further from an airport though, and DW will need to be back in Ontario every month, so I'm not sure it would be a good fit.

[scottish]

The only affordable option I can think of is a timeshare, but that’s not going to give you the entire peak summer season. Especially not in Canmore. Does it have to be Canmore, or can it be another less known town in the foothills of the Rockies?

We had a similar problem (we wanted to be in the Muskokas). The cheapest option for us was buying a place, especially because we knew we wanted to go back every summer. We rent it out to friends when we are not using it, to help offset costs. This way, we get first dibs in terms of using the cottage whenever we want, and we are guaranteed access to a cottage during peak season. We also bought the cottage with family, so we can split the costs of ownership.

The other option is going during the off-season/shoulder-season. You may have better luck getting someone to give you a discount for a longer-term rental in the spring (after ski season has ended and before the summer hiking season begins).

It sounds like you reached the same conclusion I did, only for a different location!   I personally love Kananaskis country & the proximity to the airport at Calgary is important.   (Kananaskis country is
 - more or less - a provincial park just east of Banff National park.)   I suppose we could get a short haul flight from someplace like Kelowna or Cranbrook to Calgary if necessary.

Before the pandemic, we spent a few weeks in different locations in BC to get a feel for them - Golden, Kimberley and Fernie.    They were all nice, but none of them had access to the same amount of recreational territory as Canmore.   Another consideration is that central BC seems to be prime wildfire country these days.   Western Alberta doesn't have quite the same problem, at least not yet.

[JupiterGreen]

We rent a place for a month every year, randomly found it on craigslist. It's our biggest expense and not at all mustachian, but it also allows us to retain vital relationships. Now that we've been going there year after year we have a good relationship with the owners. They are very flexible with us since they know we are good tenants who respect their property. Having that kind of relationship is awesome.

So add craigslist to your search (along with airbnb + VRBO, we've used them all). Since the market is slowing perhaps you could try talking with with realtors, target specific listings for sale in the area you want to rent and ask if the owners would be interested in renting for the time period you are seeking. Once you get in there as a renter, get the word out and let neighbors/people in the area know exactly what you are looking for. There might be someone interested in renting for this time period who doesn't want to go through the hassle of listing their place. There are a ton of people who rent but never advertise in the area where we rent.

We have toyed with the idea of buying a 2nd home, but the numbers are garbage for us. With that said, if your numbers are good (or even if the numbers aren't great, but the experience is valuable enough), it might be worth it for you. @Metalcat ended up buying a 2nd place perhaps they could chime in on the experience.

Whatever you do, I hope you update here. I'm interested to know how you solve this.

[scottish]

Yes, Metalcat bought a place with a view in rural Newfoundland, didn't she.    If only prices in the rockies were the same as NL!

It would definitely be our largest expense item, so we need to consider all the options carefully before proceeding.     The numbers are ok, especially if the real estate market succumbs to more downward pressure as a result of going back to normal (more or less normal) interest rates.

We'll be out there for a couple of weeks in June, hopefully we can settle on an approach then.

[Freedomin5]

Ideally, it would be great if you could find a resort that sells condo units. You can stipulate when you want to use your unit, and the rest of the time it goes into a rental pool that is managed by the resort. It’s not fractional ownership since you’re the sole owner of your unit. There are a few resorts in Ontario that use that model. Not sure if there is something similar in Canmore.

[Villanelle]

I lived in an airbnb for about 8 months, in between international moves, and I got a heavy discount for that long of a term. (IIRC, it was about 30%).  Most of my time was during the off-season (winter and spring in San Diego) but I bled into late spring/early summer.  They were happy to have a guaranteed renter.  So don't hesitate to reach out and ask for discounts, and then negotiation down from their initial response.

[scottish]

Ideally, it would be great if you could find a resort that sells condo units. You can stipulate when you want to use your unit, and the rest of the time it goes into a rental pool that is managed by the resort. It’s not fractional ownership since you’re the sole owner of your unit. There are a few resorts in Ontario that use that model. Not sure if there is something similar in Canmore.

I've seen some of these at New England ski resorts at pretty loww prices. The "Contels"  (condo hotels) where you purchase a small "hotel/condo" unit and pay a small monthly assocation fee and live in it like a condo. However they allow you to rent your unit as a hotel room as little or as long as you'd like and have staff on site to deal with that just like a hotel does.

Canmore has zoning specifically for short term rentals as opposed to residential zoning where short term rentals are prohibited, and commercial zoning where anything goes.    I'll have to look into this in more detail.

[uniwelder]

OP should look into pet/housesitting-- stay at someone's house for free.  I just searched on Trustedhousesitters.com and there are about 20 people right now looking for someone to take care of their pets in the March-June timeframe.  Most are in Calgary, about an hour away, but there are some in Canmore.  Durations are from 4 to 14 days from the little snapshot I was looking at.

[lhamo]

Another option to consider would be a home exchange -- haven't done this yet but it is something I am considering in order to reduce the cost of the kind of travel I most prefer (staying in one area for several weeks or months and living more like a local)

[scottish]

OP should look into pet/housesitting-- stay at someone's house for free.  I just searched on Trustedhousesitters.com and there are about 20 people right now looking for someone to take care of their pets in the March-June timeframe.  Most are in Calgary, about an hour away, but there are some in Canmore.  Durations are from 4 to 14 days from the little snapshot I was looking at.

Yeh, unfortunately we're both allergic to pets.   DW would be in a constant asthma attack if we did this.