Author Topic: Living on a remote military base as civilians? Great or terrible idea?  (Read 5781 times)

Jacana

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 188
  • Location: Back in the DMV :(
Should we move to the base where my husband works as a DOD contractor? What is it like to live on a rural base as a civilian family? Anyone have similar experiences or advice to share?

We are months away from having to make this decision, but we need to move out of our current rental in the Fall. I've read a few comments here and other places that make me wonder about the logistics and culture of living on a base so I'd like to know early on if it's a great option for us or a terrible idea.

We got completely screwed with the utilities in this older home in a town 30+ minutes away, so we're trying to be really cautious about our next rental (we owned our own home for the previous 5 years and it's definitely an adjustment to rent). The on-base housing company has been advertising that housing is available to DOD civilian families and military retirees with ALL utilities included. By my calculations, on base housing would save us almost $1000 a month with the rent + utilities compared to our current rental. Plus peace of mind that our landlords are an on-site professional company, not a random couple in Germany who are pretty naive about home maintenance and the condition of the home. My husband could walk to work, he'd be able to come home for lunch, etc, really increasing our family time too. It sounds like a great deal financially and for our family, and I keep thinking wow $12,000+ extra in savings, how great!

But we would be living even further from friends and family than we are now. My husband was in the Reserves, he's been deployed to Afghanistan and Iraq, he's worked at various bases for his civilian job, he knows what it's like for him but not for a family. I've been on a few bases he's been associated with, but never even driven by the housing areas. I am currently at home with a 3 yo, another kid is a maybe/maybe not in the next year or so, so I am pretty worried about what the community is like and how comfortable it will be for us.

Some questions running through my head:
  • How easy/intimidating is it to have visitors? Could we for example have a bunch of friends over for a party? Could we have relatives stay for a week?
  • What about medical care? Nearest big hospitals are about 30-40 min away. Would a remote base have some sort of emergency care available to all residents? I don't see anything about that on their website.
  • How easy is it to run errands? We would not be allowed to shop at the commissary on base, so is it going to be a hassle just to run out to the supermarket?
  • What is the culture like? Will I and my daughter be isolated because we aren't military even though he is a vet? Would she be allowed in the on-base preschool?
  • How easy is it to break a lease if his contract moves or disappears or if we really hate it?
  • Are there any other challenges/annoyances I haven't even thought of?

Thanks for any insights!

margarinecat

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 4
I haven't lived on post, but one of my friends does, so I will try to fill in what I can.  He is a government employee, not a contractor, but that shouldn't matter.

1.  Visitors - He says it is no big deal.  He generally needs to go meet people at the gate, but the guards are easy to deal with and they don't try to hassle people.

2.  Medical care - Don't really know much about that one.  He is in a mid-size city, so it isn't really a need.

3.  Errands - He can't shop at the commissary.  He can shop at the PX; apparently there is something listed in his lease about that.  Errands outside of post are just based on what is in the area.

4.  Culture - He loves living there.  He has said the people all seem to be pretty friendly, but that may just be the culture of the specific post.  Where he is at, everyone can use the day care.  If it is more of a regular school, I would think you could use it, since you live within the confines of the post, but it is something that you could probably call the school and ask them.

5.  Breaking the lease - I don't expect it would be any harder than breaking any other lease.  It would probably cost you some money, but it could be done.

6.  Other challenges - Not that I know of.

I realize this isn't a complete answer, but I hope it is a place to start for you.

MsPeacock

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1571
  • Location: High COL
The answer to many of these questions would depend on how remote the base is - and how much of a "town" is located around the base. I would expect that you will not have access to other DoD benefits - e.g. healthcare at the base clinic/hospital/ER, childcare center (some childcare centers are open to civilian employees - so you would have to check w/ that specific location).

DoNorth

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 241
  • Age: 45
what base?

Villanelle

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6657
I'm at a military base in Germany, though we live off base.

How easy/intimidating is it to have visitors? Could we for example have a bunch of friends over for a party? Could we have relatives stay for a week?

Generally you will need to meet them at the gate and sign them in.  If they are Americans, they will need to show passports.  It takes a couple minutes at most.  Not a huge deal.  I'm not sure if they can drive on though.   For people staying with you, there may be additional paperwork.  At our base in Japan, (not sure if rules are the same here), one had to get approval from the command and the guests had to show they had some sort of medical insurance policy that was valid in Japan.  I lived off base there too and never did it, but my understanding is it took maybe 30 minutes total to jump through all the hopes, and a couple days with waiting time.  Again, this was for Japan.

What about medical care? Nearest big hospitals are about 30-40 min away. Would a remote base have some sort of emergency care available to all residents? I don't see anything about that on their website.

My base in Germany has some sick call appointments, but there is no real urgent care and definitely no ER. Sick call can sometimes get people in right away, sometimes in a couple hours, and sometimes not at all (and they aren't even open 24/7).    Even military personnel and families go to civilian ERs, often for stuff that would be fine at an urgent care level, but because there is no UC available to us, if we can't wait until Monday morning to try and get a sick call appointment, we have to go to the ER.  I doubt that a remote base is going to have a hospital of any kind.  I don't know if the clinics generally see DoD civilians.


How easy is it to run errands? We would not be allowed to shop at the commissary on base, so is it going to be a hassle just to run out to the supermarket?

How much of a hassle will depend on how close the nearest stores are.  He may be able to shop at the Exchange, and those tend to carry some very basic groceries, but mostly junk food stuff.  He could also ask about whether he is allowed to shop at the shopette, or whatever other facilities they may have.  Our shopette, attached to our gas station, has milk and eggs and basics.

What is the culture like? Will I and my daughter be isolated because we aren't military even though he is a vet? Would she be allowed in the on-base preschool?

IME, again with Japan, civilian kids were allowed in the base schools on a space available basis.  There is probably a school liaison for the base.  Track down that info and call and ask.  I can't see why you'd be treated differently or isolated simply because your DH is a civilian.  Most people aren't going to care about his status.  You'll be their neighbor. 

How easy is it to break a lease if his contract moves or disappears or if we really hate it?  This will simply depend on the lease.  If sounds like your housing is privatized, so you'd have to ask about the specific policy.


lakemom

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 401
Couple of thoughts:

When you say "remote" what exactly do you mean?  50 miles to the nearest gas station or grocery store OR just not as convenient as living in a big city?

Different branches of the service have different cultures so that will factor into the culture of the base BUT in general everyone is pretty friendly and mostly fairly young (20yo-40yo) and in the busy childrearing years so being at home with young children you will find many like minded neighbors.  Also, everyone is used to moving frequently so are in the habit of both reaching out to make friends and reaching out to welcome newcomers.  Check whether or not a civilian contractor can "buddy up" with another family on base.  This is one way that the military helps ease transitions for their active duty personnel but I don't know if its available to other newcomers but certainly worth asking about/for.  A "buddy" family will welcome you to the base and help you learn the ropes at that particular base.

The size of the base determines the amenities available but if its "remote" being FAR away from everything then there will most likely be a medical center there.  As far as shopping, all you need to get into the BX or Commissary is an ID so, once you make a few friends on base you could buddy up with them to go shopping (at least I think, dh is Reserves so we just always use our own id's to get in).

Is this base near enough to your current home that you could go visit and really check things out on and around the base?  Even if it means a long weekend trip or something.  Or will this be a long distance move?

We generally love being on bases because everything is kept in pretty good condition (nothing is ever perfect) and you can usually walk/bike anywhere on base and feel safe.  Most bases are very family friendly as well with parks/playgrounds/sports fields available for everyone to use.

Jacana

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 188
  • Location: Back in the DMV :(
Thank you everyone for your insights.

It's good to hear that the communities are usually very friendly, welcoming, and active. Thank you.  If we decide to, I will ask about a buddy program for civilians. Right now we live in an area with mostly dual-income families or older couples with grown kids, so having more at-home spouses and young children as neighbors would be a pleasant change.

Yes, the housing is privatized. I think we can go check it out; they occasionally have an open house for housing so we will try to catch one. We can ask about the PX, school, lease and whatnot then. We can't really break our lease here (we would potentially end up owing the entire remainder of the rent anyway) so that's why I am wondering about it so much.

The base is in the greater Chesapeake region, so not really remote in the sense that it is days away from all civilization. It is remote in the sense that there isn't really a town. There is a grocery store, a few gas stations, a few doctor's offices and a chain restaurant or two. But all other amenities in that area are located on base (library, school, park/playgrounds, community pool or rec center, bowling alley, movie theatre).  So, groceries and gas, fine. Anything else, nope. If we moved to that area off base, we would have to drive 40+ minutes to do anything because my daughter and I would not be allowed on base. So it seems like if we are going to move to that area, we would really be better on base. Or we could be ~40 minutes away and he has a commute, but we have everything we could ever want within a few minutes walk or drive. That's the choice we are facing, basically.

Checking in visitors at the gate sounds annoying, but oh well it's pretty far from any friends and family so probably won't happen too often. As long as they are allowed. Hopefully a few overnight visitors are ok too without all the permission hassle. I will definitely ask.

The base has a basic medical center, but it specifies for Tricare enrollees (which we do not have), and no emergency care so I don't know if they would see us at all. No urgent or emergency care in the nearby area, either, just some family physicians and dentists.

I have a good list of questions to ask the housing company now so we can decide and apply. Thanks all for your answers!

Villanelle

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6657
Couple of thoughts:

When you say "remote" what exactly do you mean?  50 miles to the nearest gas station or grocery store OR just not as convenient as living in a big city?

Different branches of the service have different cultures so that will factor into the culture of the base BUT in general everyone is pretty friendly and mostly fairly young (20yo-40yo) and in the busy childrearing years so being at home with young children you will find many like minded neighbors.  Also, everyone is used to moving frequently so are in the habit of both reaching out to make friends and reaching out to welcome newcomers.  Check whether or not a civilian contractor can "buddy up" with another family on base.  This is one way that the military helps ease transitions for their active duty personnel but I don't know if its available to other newcomers but certainly worth asking about/for.  A "buddy" family will welcome you to the base and help you learn the ropes at that particular base.

The size of the base determines the amenities available but if its "remote" being FAR away from everything then there will most likely be a medical center there.  As far as shopping, all you need to get into the BX or Commissary is an ID so, once you make a few friends on base you could buddy up with them to go shopping (at least I think, dh is Reserves so we just always use our own id's to get in).

Is this base near enough to your current home that you could go visit and really check things out on and around the base?  Even if it means a long weekend trip or something.  Or will this be a long distance move?

We generally love being on bases because everything is kept in pretty good condition (nothing is ever perfect) and you can usually walk/bike anywhere on base and feel safe.  Most bases are very family friendly as well with parks/playgrounds/sports fields available for everyone to use.


To the bolded, if the OP does not have commissary privileges, having someone else buy for her family is a violation of policy and could cause huge issues for both her husband and the buyer.  A "buddy" system is definitely not allowed.  Items purchased must be intended for use by the ID card holder. 

It sounds like there is a grocery story available off base, OP, so it shouldn't be an issue, thankfully. 

livetogive

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 235
Don't do it if you in any way value your personal freedoms,  which you should.  There's a reason why Soldiers all want to live off post.

You have no right to unreasonable search and seizure, guests are a pain*,  you are required to keep your grass a certain length,  car registration is a bear,  the list goes on and on.  Did you know most of those houses aren't built to the same building codes as what you'll find off post?

I had junior NCOs leave the Army because they couldn't get approval to live off post and couldn't handle the crappy conditions anymore.

EDIT:  Two more things I totally forgot about.  1.) You're forfeiting your right to keep arms in your home, if that's a thing you value and 2.) when a VIP comes the post commander can (and often does) choose to close the base.  That means if you're in you're in, and if you're out you're out.  There was a certain president who enjoyed walks on the golf course on a post I was stationed at.  If you were unlucky enough to get caught inside the gates when he arrived you were forced to sit in the office until things opened back up again.  Kind of a crappy way to spend a Saturday and I'm glad I didn't have a flight to catch or something.

Finally, this might not apply to you as a civilian, but there is a minimum level of cleanliness you are required to maintain in your home.  You probably aren't subject to health and welfare inspections but if you are you could be punished for having a dirty home. 

I think you're kinda nuts to do this but that's just my 0.02.


*yes you have to get them at the gate, but you better hope their car insurance forms are up to date and in their glove box.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2015, 11:31:15 AM by TurboLT »

Villanelle

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6657
Don't do it if you in any way value your personal freedoms,  which you should.  There's a reason why Soldiers all want to live off post.

You have no right to unreasonable search and seizure, guests are a pain*,  you are required to keep your grass a certain length,  car registration is a bear,  the list goes on and on.  Did you know most of those houses aren't built to the same building codes as what you'll find off post?

I had junior NCOs leave the Army because they couldn't get approval to live off post and couldn't handle the crappy conditions anymore.

EDIT:  Two more things I totally forgot about.  1.) You're forfeiting your right to keep arms in your home, if that's a thing you value and 2.) when a VIP comes the post commander can (and often does) choose to close the base.  That means if you're in you're in, and if you're out you're out.  There was a certain president who enjoyed walks on the golf course on a post I was stationed at.  If you were unlucky enough to get caught inside the gates when he arrived you were forced to sit in the office until things opened back up again.  Kind of a crappy way to spend a Saturday and I'm glad I didn't have a flight to catch or something.

Finally, this might not apply to you as a civilian, but there is a minimum level of cleanliness you are required to maintain in your home.  You probably aren't subject to health and welfare inspections but if you are you could be punished for having a dirty home. 

I think you're kinda nuts to do this but that's just my 0.02.


*yes you have to get them at the gate, but you better hope their car insurance forms are up to date and in their glove box.

Have you lived in Germany?  I'm curious, because I think a lot of what you said applies to living *off* base in Germany, too.  I am not allowed to mow my lawn on Sundays or personal holidays, for example, so it isn't exactly the bastion of personal freedom you might find in rural Texas.  I can't just have a firearm in my home--Germany has extremely strict gun control regulations.  Car registration for military living off base is the same as for those living on base--exact same rules and process.  I don't know how that applies to civilians, but it applies to military (for our base/area).  In my 5 years of living overseas, the base has never been locked down at either of our locations, other than sort of during a typhoon. 

And I'm certainly expected by my landlord and neighbors  to maintain a minimum level of cleanliness.

It sounds like you had a rough go if it in the Army, and I'm sorry for that. But your experiences don't match mine, and much of what you listed as downsides for living on base would apply to living off-base in Germany as well. 

CheapskateWife

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1410
  • Location: Hill Country, TX - Being a blueberry in the Tomato Soup
  • FIRE'd and Loving it!
Re: Living on a remote military base as civilians? Great or terrible idea?
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2015, 12:24:17 PM »
We just PCS'd from Fort Lee, and I had been stationed at Fort Eustis years ago.  I also work on the federal side of privatized Military Housing, so have a fairly firm grasp of the ups and downs of onpost dwelling.  Our installation is really resisting opening up to civilians, and so I'm interested to see the good, bad, and ugly of its implementation. 

Yes, there are certain freedoms you give up.  Dog breeds and quantity are an issue, and you will be living in a fish bowl (everyone knows everyon else's business).  There are no home cleanliness inspections any more, but if you call in for maintenance to fix something, the condition will be of note.  No landlord will put up with a tennant trashing their house, so that's not really all that different from living outside the fence.

You raise some excellent points about access to on post ammenities, and those are best to ask at the Housing office.  If you aren't still an id card holder (or have a civilian CAC) there will be limitations; but there is likely plenty you may still take advantage of (like free gyms!)

One thought I had....once you are on base and in a house, can they terminate your lease or refuse to allow you to renew your annual lease if an active duty family (ahead of you on the priority waterfall) needs/wants a house.

Are you being offered a newer house or something built in the 60's?  That will speak to TurboLT's comment about building codes...the privatized housing built in the last 10 years has been built to IRC (International Residential Code) and should be more than adequate.

I think its a terrific option to explore and consider for 2-3 years as you and your family to do some serious 'staching!  But ask lots of questions.

livetogive

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 235
Re: Living on a remote military base as civilians? Great or terrible idea?
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2015, 04:00:10 PM »
To be clear everyone's post experience is different as pointed out above. I'd personally rather work an extra couple years than trade my freedoms and get that awful oppressed feeling I had when stuck on any military post long enough,  but that's just me.

It's also probably much different psychologically as married civilians who could theoretically quit and leave whenever they wanted.

Boz86

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 117
Re: Living on a remote military base as civilians? Great or terrible idea?
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2015, 07:12:18 AM »
One question from your original post: you say your husband is a DOD contractor but they're opening the housing to DOD civilians.

That's not necessarily the same thing so I'd recommend clarifying that if you haven't already.

Killerbrandt

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 329
Re: Living on a remote military base as civilians? Great or terrible idea?
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2015, 07:34:54 AM »
I have lived on bases my entire life (all over the world and in the USA). I LOVED IT!!! However, we were a military family, so we could shop at the commissary and BX/PX. The only thing you need to make sure about is shopping at the stores on base. Some bases actually allow you to shop on base if stores and other food sources are too far away, but please confirm that before trying to live there. Also, you need to make sure you can use the clinic on base, I know in recent years they have loosened the policies for hospital care. Now if there is a medical emergency, then they will take you in right away. The culture on base is about family, everyone there will help you out. If you have kids, they can walk all over the place and you don't have to fear of them getting kidnapped or hurt. There are no real criminals on base other than stupid teens messing around, but the base is pretty strict at punishment, so most tend to behave. Overall, I would live on base for the rest of my life if I was able to. I am Civil Service now, but my wife and I frequently visit the bases on our days off to relax and walk around the parks.

Jacana

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 188
  • Location: Back in the DMV :(
Re: Living on a remote military base as civilians? Great or terrible idea?
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2015, 07:04:43 AM »
Hm, so many interesting points. The evidence is mounting toward a no-go.

@Boz86: Woah, thanks, you're right, a month or so ago it also listed contractors and now it doesn't! But when we first started looking for rentals 5 months ago, I don't remember it listing even DOD civilians, so there must be something going on there. I will have to ask if the types of eligible tenants changes based on units available or something, or if contractors are now permanently off the list. I didn't catch it because he was a Fed for 5 years until 6 months ago and I forget things change. He may end up a Fed again, but  not likely by this fall. That could be a big problem if we get on the list and then suddenly are kicked off because the rules have changed again.

@TurboLT: To clarify, I don't like guns in the house (young kids), but my husband hunts and has his shotgun and muzzleloader. They would not be permitted at all? Ah, that there may be the dealbreaker for him. The housing is pretty new, we aren't expecting luxury digs but clean and hassle-free would be nice. Lock-downs would probably be rare, but good to know. And yeah, I'm sure the knowledge that we can leave any time would alleviate a lot of the tension.

@Villanelle: Well, luckily we knew we couldn't plan on using the commissary anyway, but thanks for the warning, wouldn't want to get anyone in trouble. As for the cleanliness, yeah, after our current rental, I wouldn't mind everyone being held to a higher standard (both tenant and landlord). We had a bad experience in this house.

@Cheapskate wife: Based on the style (duplex with garages) I'm guessing they are newer. There are some much older looking homes on the base, but they are not listed. I will ask about rules regarding leases and early termination and building to code. As for tenants trashing houses, my parents have a few rentals down in Florida and while they may not tolerate tenants trashing the house, they have little recourse by Florida law unless the tenants aren't paying rent. They had a couple trash a house, stop paying rent and utilities, and it took months to evict them. I imagine the military has a faster process. But we keep the house in good order, so it should be ok for us at least.

@Killerbrandt: Are you and your wife allowed on base because you work there, or is anyone allowed to visit like that? Would you be able to use the amenities on base like library and bowling alley without being a resident? The safety is a big draw but really for us it would be the available amenities because otherwise living in the immediate vicinity is a no.

Thanks again!

Killerbrandt

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 329
Re: Living on a remote military base as civilians? Great or terrible idea?
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2015, 10:04:38 AM »
I am a DoD employee now, so I am allowed on base and able to use everything with the exception of the BX/PX and the Commissary. The gym is picky at allowing none cac card holders at coming in but the bowling alley, theater and other things are able to be used by general public, if on base. The nice thing that all the bases I have been to, let outsiders through the gate very easily by just me calling ahead, which then they could drive on without problems (they put a pass in the car for outsiders). Now if you were driving, then you could load your entire car up with people and they only need to see your ID card, unless there's a higher risk code up (threat level). The risk coding is from Alpha to Delta and normally when Alpha (safe threat level) they are very relaxed at the gate, but when Delta they are strict and only want military personal to be outside (rarely happens and only happened to my family for a week during 9/11). Even if you cannot use all the amenities on base, it is a very safe and fun environment for kids and families. There is no fear of walking outside after dark, they hold all sorts of fun events for everyone and they take great care of the housing, so you would have no fear if something breaks on the house. Each year they keep getting more relaxed on outsiders using the base amenities, so maybe soon they will allow the BX/PX and Commissary. You should ask the PR office on base about how remote the base is, because if they are very remote they can give passes for you to use all things on base! I have seen that countless times because the hired contractors or DoD civil service had a mission critical job on base and it was unfair for them to travel so far for basic amenities. It doesn't hurt asking :)