Author Topic: Time spent with kids correlated to future success?  (Read 4468 times)

Da Man

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Time spent with kids correlated to future success?
« on: December 18, 2013, 03:49:11 PM »
I see this getting mentioned from time to time in a lot of web articles in support of FIRE. I was wondering if there was actual research to back this up, because my Googling is coming up empty handed.

gimp

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Re: Time spent with kids correlated to future success?
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2013, 03:52:15 PM »
Absofuckinglutely.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/Final_Parent_Involvement_Fact_Sheet_14732_7.pdf

Scroll to the last page for a large list of sources and studies. Each of those most likely sources a dozen more.

bogart

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Re: Time spent with kids correlated to future success?
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2013, 08:19:33 PM »
If you're seriously interested in the question, I'd recommend looking at original academic research.  Examples (none available full-text free) of the sorts of things that look helpful are below.  I pulled all these off the first 50 items that popped up when I searched on the words "parental time allocation child outcomes" in JSTOR.  Unfortunately none are available free full text (but they'd be readily available in a university library if you're near one); I've tried (when possible) to provide short snippets from the abstract that give a sense of what appear to be the full findings, but I haven't myself read the full articles so am not really in a position to say.

(The very, very quick summary of what I know about the findings in this area, other than that "it all depends," is that for children of parents with less formal education, high-quality childcare, early (and often!), produces better outcomes, as measured by things like academic achievement -- staying in school, passing grades, doing well on tests that measure cognition, than does providing childcare (just) by the parents/extended family.  Low quality childcare does not.  For highly educated parents, it doesn't seem to matter much -- good quality childcare is good, and so is parental care (and of course low quality childcare is not good).  I'm not really informed on research about parental time allocation once kids are older than 5 or 6 and its effects on academic or other achievements, so can't even try to summarize that).

Parent's Time with Children: Does Time Matter for Children's Cognitive Achievement?
Amy Hsin
Social Indicators Research
Vol. 93, No. 1, Time Use and Qualities of Life (Aug., 2009), pp. 123-126
Published by: Springer
Article Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/27734904
 ("...the literature points to key disparities in the quantity and type of parent child interactions -- the verbal interactions and the type of activities performed together, for example -- that suggest that children are socialized in ways that reinforce existing inequalities... .  These studies suggest that there may be important differences in how time is used and that these differences may contribute to socioeconomic disparities in child outcomes.  In spite of these studies, research that has sought to establish an empirical link between time with children and child outcomes is relatively limited..." (emphasis in original))

Maternal Employment, Nonparental Care, Mother-Child Interactions, and Child Outcomes During Preschool Years
Kei M. Nomaguchi
Journal of Marriage and Family
Vol. 68, No. 5 (Dec., 2006), pp. 1341-1369
Published by: National Council on Family Relations
Article Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/4122863
(""... maternal employment during the previous year, especially full-time employment, was related to care by nonrelatives, longer hours in school settings, fewer positive mother-child interactions, and less reading with parents at ages 2 and 4.  Controlling for these mediators, maternal employement was related to children's lower hyperactivity, more proscocial behavior, and less anxiety at age 4, although little relationship was found at age 2.  The results indicate that preschoolers may beneft from maternal employment, but benefits may be offset by long hours of nonparental care and fewer positive mother-child interactions.")

Child Care, Women's Employment, and Child Outcomes
Jane Waldfogel
Journal of Population Economics
Vol. 15, No. 3 (Aug., 2002), pp. 527-548
Published by: Springer
Article Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/20007828
(Looks informative, but no useful summary pointing either direction in the abstract)

Mothers' Time with Infant and Time in Employment as Predictors of Mother-Child Relationships and Children's Early Development
Aletha C. Huston and Stacey Rosenkrantz Aronson
Child Development
Vol. 76, No. 2 (Mar. - Apr., 2005), pp. 467-482
Published by: Wiley
Article Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/3696515
("...With family and maternal characteristics controlled, time with infants predicted high Home Observation for Measurement of the Environment (HOME) scores and maternal sensitivity, but bore little relation to children's engagement with mothers, secure attachment, social behavior, or cognitive performance from 15 to 36 months.  Mothers who spent more time at work had higher HOME scores.  Maternal time with infants may reflect maternal characteristics that affect both time allocation and maternal behavior."

 




Da Man

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Re: Time spent with kids correlated to future success?
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2013, 01:25:43 AM »
Thanks for the replies! This is all very useful when people start to ask why I am seeking FIRE.

Da Man

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Re: Time spent with kids correlated to future success?
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2013, 01:30:03 AM »
(The very, very quick summary of what I know about the findings in this area, other than that "it all depends," is that for children of parents with less formal education, high-quality childcare, early (and often!), produces better outcomes, as measured by things like academic achievement -- staying in school, passing grades, doing well on tests that measure cognition, than does providing childcare (just) by the parents/extended family.  Low quality childcare does not.  For highly educated parents, it doesn't seem to matter much -- good quality childcare is good, and so is parental care (and of course low quality childcare is not good).  I'm not really informed on research about parental time allocation once kids are older than 5 or 6 and its effects on academic or other achievements, so can't even try to summarize that).

With regards to this particular finding, what would you say to people who point the finger back at me and say "You got a pretty good education, why not just work more and put them through [ridiculously expensive] "prestigious" private schools?" What can FIRE bring to the table in this kind of discourse?

arebelspy

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Re: Time spent with kids correlated to future success?
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2013, 06:00:30 AM »
(The very, very quick summary of what I know about the findings in this area, other than that "it all depends," is that for children of parents with less formal education, high-quality childcare, early (and often!), produces better outcomes, as measured by things like academic achievement -- staying in school, passing grades, doing well on tests that measure cognition, than does providing childcare (just) by the parents/extended family.  Low quality childcare does not.  For highly educated parents, it doesn't seem to matter much -- good quality childcare is good, and so is parental care (and of course low quality childcare is not good).  I'm not really informed on research about parental time allocation once kids are older than 5 or 6 and its effects on academic or other achievements, so can't even try to summarize that).

With regards to this particular finding, what would you say to people who point the finger back at me and say "You got a pretty good education, why not just work more and put them through [ridiculously expensive] "prestigious" private schools?" What can FIRE bring to the table in this kind of discourse?

Well if the private schools offer no better than parent time, but in order to do that option you have to:
1) work many more hours
2) see your kid less
3) spend all that money

..why the heck would you choose that option?

I'd better be getting a LOT for that tradeoff (of 1 & 2), and if it "doesn't seem to matter much," sure seems like I'm not getting much out of that fancy private school.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with two kids.
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ender

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Re: Time spent with kids correlated to future success?
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2013, 07:13:03 AM »
One of the reasons I want to become FI as soon as possible is so that myself and hopefully future spouse can spend a lot of time with our hopefully eventual kids in their younger years.

Even if this ends up as me working part-time or something similar it would be great.

arebelspy

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Re: Time spent with kids correlated to future success?
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2013, 09:33:44 AM »
One of the reasons I want to become FI as soon as possible is so that myself and hopefully future spouse can spend a lot of time with our hopefully eventual kids in their younger years.

Even if this ends up as me working part-time or something similar it would be great.

Ditto.  That's my main driver for FIRE. If I wasn't having kids, I wouldn't care so much about the RE part.

But my current plan has us FIREing once our first kid (not yet conceived) turns one.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with two kids.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out our Now page to see what we're up to currently.

athomeintheworld

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Re: Time spent with kids correlated to future success?
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2013, 09:42:38 AM »
Attachment parenting!

Time with kids is the best investment you can make for them.

Exactly!!  We are an AP family as well. 

eyePod

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Re: Time spent with kids correlated to future success?
« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2013, 10:11:22 AM »
(The very, very quick summary of what I know about the findings in this area, other than that "it all depends," is that for children of parents with less formal education, high-quality childcare, early (and often!), produces better outcomes, as measured by things like academic achievement -- staying in school, passing grades, doing well on tests that measure cognition, than does providing childcare (just) by the parents/extended family.  Low quality childcare does not.  For highly educated parents, it doesn't seem to matter much -- good quality childcare is good, and so is parental care (and of course low quality childcare is not good).  I'm not really informed on research about parental time allocation once kids are older than 5 or 6 and its effects on academic or other achievements, so can't even try to summarize that).

With regards to this particular finding, what would you say to people who point the finger back at me and say "You got a pretty good education, why not just work more and put them through [ridiculously expensive] "prestigious" private schools?" What can FIRE bring to the table in this kind of discourse?

Well if the private schools offer no better than parent time, but in order to do that option you have to:
1) work many more hours
2) see your kid less
3) spend all that money

..why the heck would you choose that option?

I'd better be getting a LOT for that tradeoff (of 1 & 2), and if it "doesn't seem to matter much," sure seems like I'm not getting much out of that fancy private school.

I thought of "childcare" to be synonymous with daycare, not school for older kids. 

Daycare is expensive but it does help us.  We'd be saving about ~8-10k by not having daycare, but my wife wouldn't be able to finish school and I wouldn't be able to work in my profession if it weren't for the daycare.   On top of that, I have some friends who have 1 stay at home parent and they NEVER socialize their kids.  Literally going into kindergarten and the kid isn't potty trained and can't do basic things like play by themselves for a few minutes or deal with any situation that makes them feel vulnerable. 

I don't really know where I was going with that and it became more of a rant than I meant to.  I think I'm just trying to say that childcare isn't all bad just as parents staying at home isn't all good.