The Money Mustache Community
Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Ask a Mustachian => Topic started by: blackjack on January 19, 2016, 06:01:05 PM
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A friend just emailed this to me; I don't know much about economics or this but it makes me worried about saving so much into my 401k;
can anyone debunk this?
Bill Holter from JS Mineset joins us to cover the unfolding global economic collapse. "This is it. We're watching the meltdown. This is history being made." Bill says.
Holter explains, "The Fed has lied themselves into a corner. They raised rates and here we are a month later, the system is imploding and they have no bullets left. They are going to have to do QE4, they are going to have to do negative interest rates."
"I believe this is it. The margin call, the meltdown, we're watching it in real time... I guess the best way to look at where we are right now is, we're standing at the gates of Hell."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wvPlOLjcGU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wvPlOLjcGU)
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Not sure if serious?
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You think the end of the world is going to be announced on youtube?
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Sorry OP. You missed the boat. If you bunker isn't full off ammo, guns, gold, chainsaws and MREs by now....well it's gonna be ugly for you.
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Despite what the people on TV say, 10% corrections happen on average 1 time per year and 30% drops happen on average every 5 years. That's to be expected. Despite that, we get the long term average gain of over 10%. Now, unfortunately solid financial advice is a little boring and doesn't make good TV, so you get a lot of "infotainment". Same with medical advice, which is why we get dumbasses like Dr. Oz.
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Sorry OP. You missed the boat. If you bunker isn't full off ammo, guns, gold, chainsaws and MREs by now....well it's gonna be ugly for you.
This is a common misconception.
All that you really need is to know is where the survivalists have their bunkers, and how to make some mustard gas out of simple household cleaners.
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I don't even have to click the video. Let me guess: Buy gold?
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henny_Penny
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OP - if you can't tell from the language alone that this is click-bait, doomsday style prophecy than there's little I can do to make you feel better. Just look at the language: "Melt down. Global Economic Collapse. Gates of hell. No bullets left"
Like most ultra-bearish predictions it takes a kernel of truth and then extrapolates it to rediculous proportions. In this case, the Fed has lowered rates to the point where it has fewer tools (but certainly not zero tools) left in its toolbox. BUt what that means practically is that it is less able to fight inflation down the road should it spring up.
The reason that calling this a "global meltdown/gates of hell" moment is a bit extreme is that there's no guarantee incredible inflation will kick in at all. There was an economy long before there was a fed and most of the time it still did ok. A few absolutely horrific depressions occurred but no end-of-the-world.
You think the end of the world is going to be announced on youtube?
Certainly not. We'll read about it on twitter; #endofworld, #yallencausesapocolypse, #nowmetswillneverwinworldseriesever
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I watched the first nine minutes and that was about all the time I was willing to invest in it.
I'm not expert enough to proffer a counter-theory/prediction, but my general thoughts are this: if things go bad, A) either the developed world's economy will recover, as it always has (and the winners are generally those who did not succumb to panic), or B) it's the end of the world and I'm going to worry less about my portfolio, and more about implementing GuitarStv's plan.
I am risk averse, though, so I will hedge my bets by eating all the good chocolate in the house. (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/off-topic/foods-off-limits-to-you-or-your-so-at-home/msg933555/#msg933555) For the things that really matter, you really cannot be too careful. :)
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This is a common misconception.
All that you really need is to know is where the survivalists have their bunkers, and how to make some mustard gas out of simple household cleaners.
We put the heads of folks that try dumping their gas into our fake ventilation shafts on poles around the bunker. It's cute how they think we didn't plan for that. They look so surprised. ;)
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It's not a complete meltdown.
I am working in Investments at a global insurance company.
Our people are pretty much expecting a bear market and bad economy this year, but a correction in 2017.
Markets go up and they go down.
The Feds raised the interest rate probably a little bit too early. But it is what it is.
The worst you can do now is panic.
I would wait until mid year, see where the market bottoms out and then invest in the same strategies you have been believing in all along.
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The clickbait link of the OP notswithstanding, the Baltic Dry Index has dropped below 400 for the first time in it's history last week & Walmart announced that they are closing 269 stores (worldwide) before the end of January. Ouch. This is no ordinary correction, although there is no telling how deep this fire sale will go before it's time to buy back in. I have a lot of idle capital I have waiting, and am mostly just waiting to see how close I can guess the bottom. But if you play this game, one better be nimble & ready to move. It's easy to get burned during a fire sale.
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That channel has collapse prediction videos going back several years, even preceding strong bull markets.
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This is a common misconception.
All that you really need is to know is where the survivalists have their bunkers, and how to make some mustard gas out of simple household cleaners.
We put the heads of folks that try dumping their gas into our fake ventilation shafts on poles around the bunker. It's cure how they think we didn't plan for that. They look so surprised. ;)
Thanks for the investment tip! Just bought into "Stakes For Heads Inc." on the voodoo market.
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As opposed to that time when the global markets collapsed, and I listened to it, in real time, on NPR? It was called 2008. Been there, done that, literally have the T-shirt (I'm sure I did a 5K somewhere that has 2008 on it).
What I remember about things preceding that, was wild optimism about the housing market specifically, and the rest of the economy generally. Also found out the hard way about shitty market timing, as we bought a house in Phoenix in July 2008, thinking it was probably "near the bottom". It had dropped nearly 50% of the top, after all. Whoops.
My thought is, oil being cheap is a symptom, not the cause. The world economy is weak right now. At some point, the cheapness of oil will likely lead to economic growth, since oil is the crude commodity used to make most of the items and services companies sell.
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I thought this was MMM not Zero Hedge
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As opposed to that time when the global markets collapsed, and I listened to it, in real time, on NPR? It was called 2008. Been there, done that, literally have the T-shirt (I'm sure I did a 5K somewhere that has 2008 on it).
What I remember about things preceding that, was wild optimism about the housing market specifically, and the rest of the economy generally. Also found out the hard way about shitty market timing, as we bought a house in Phoenix in July 2008, thinking it was probably "near the bottom". It had dropped nearly 50% of the top, after all. Whoops.
My thought is, oil being cheap is a symptom, not the cause. The world economy is weak right now. At some point, the cheapness of oil will likely lead to economic growth, since oil is the crude commodity used to make most of the items and services companies sell.
One of the historical lessons I remember is that whenever there is a market adjustment it is the dawn of a new technology. If you can spot that tech emerging as the market fails, you will do very well in the recovery. If you are too busy watching your own hard slide you will not see the new trend emerge until its too late.
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One of the historical lessons I remember is that whenever there is a market adjustment it is the dawn of a new technology. If you can spot that tech emerging as the market fails, you will do very well in the recovery. If you are too busy watching your own hard slide you will not see the new trend emerge until its too late.
What would you say the new technology was during 2008/2009 market adjustment?
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One of the historical lessons I remember is that whenever there is a market adjustment it is the dawn of a new technology. If you can spot that tech emerging as the market fails, you will do very well in the recovery. If you are too busy watching your own hard slide you will not see the new trend emerge until its too late.
What would you say the new technology was during 2008/2009 market adjustment?
If I were to guess, I'd say that it was oil fracking was hitting it's heyday. If you could have foreseen that one, you could have made a fortune over the past several years. But then, you'd had to have bailed on it before spring of '15.
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One of the historical lessons I remember is that whenever there is a market adjustment it is the dawn of a new technology. If you can spot that tech emerging as the market fails, you will do very well in the recovery. If you are too busy watching your own hard slide you will not see the new trend emerge until its too late.
What would you say the new technology was during 2008/2009 market adjustment?
If I were to guess, I'd say that it was oil fracking was hitting it's heyday. If you could have foreseen that one, you could have made a fortune over the past several years. But then, you'd had to have bailed on it before spring of '15.
In my mind - That would be the real emergence of cellular/wearable tech. OTOH, some would argue that it wasn't a large enough shockwave to really count for much of anything. See here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kondratiev_wave - which predicts a major readjustment for 2015, based on historical wave patterns.
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The clickbait link of the OP notswithstanding, the Baltic Dry Index has dropped below 400 for the first time in it's history last week & Walmart announced that they are closing 269 stores (worldwide) before the end of January. Ouch. This is no ordinary correction, although there is no telling how deep this fire sale will go before it's time to buy back in. I have a lot of idle capital I have waiting, and am mostly just waiting to see how close I can guess the bottom. But if you play this game, one better be nimble & ready to move. It's easy to get burned during a fire sale.
I do not share your pessimism my friend.
Regarding the Baltic Dry Index - it's low metric right now isn't an indication of the apocolypse, but an indication that the availability of container ships and the cost to ship things across oceans has fallen. There are several reasons why this has happened; 1) yes, global demand (particularly in CHina) has dropped, but also 2) oil is cheap (which reduces the ship-cost of the voyage and 3) there are so damn many cargo ships right now. We (actually China) overbuilt for the last several years. This (http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2016/01/20/to-explain-the-baltic-dry-index-plunge-its-supply-not-demand/#2715e4857a0b1f1b824121c0) might expalain it better than I can.
AS for Walmart, they aren't closing 269 of their normal stores, but abandoning their "small format" stores which are a brand new concept to the company. Basically, they realized they weren't going to be very profitable and have decided to stick to doing what they've done best - very large stores that can turn profits on razor-thin margins.
In the meantime, jobs have been created, employment is low and so far the US is doing ok. Not fantastic, but ok. Now Russia, Iran and many other countries have very tough roads ahead.
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As far as Walmart goes there closing 4 Walmart stores but there are several Meyer foods going in, Whole foods and a whole lot more. Walmart is facing competition...period!
I dont see any indication the collapse is here and nothing more than a healthy correction is needed. I also agree with Nereo perception of the Baltic Dry index. People keep yelling the market is going to collapse so just one day the will be right. Might as well start saying your going to die because eventually will be right about that too.
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Sorry OP. You missed the boat. If you bunker isn't full off ammo, guns, gold, chainsaws and MREs by now....well it's gonna be ugly for you.
This is a common misconception.
All that you really need is to know is where the survivalists have their bunkers, and how to make some mustard gas out of simple household cleaners.
favorite post ever. This is always my answer to the zombie apocalypse. Why would I stockpile if I'm stronger/smarter/less ethical than the person who is stockpiling?
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There's a way to inoculate yourself against this stuff.
Write down whatever this YouTube financial profit is predicting and be sure to note any specifics, especially dates. Then, when the doomsday dates roll around, revisit what they said and have a good laugh. This works pretty well for any CNBC pundit or political hack/TV talking head/radioshow git too. Once you start tracking what these knuckleheads are saying, you'll quickly realize that they're all full of shit and you'll never waste another second clogging your head with their misinformation.
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favorite post ever. This is always my answer to the zombie apocalypse. Why would I stockpile if I'm stronger/smarter/less ethical than the person who is stockpiling?
Because somebody else will be stronger/smarter/less ethical than you AND will have stockpiled equipment and supplies. You'll be working the fields for them.
If you don't start out hungry, poorly equipped and with a shitty defensive position you will last a lot longer.
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Personally, I'm still waiting for the Rapture.
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Sorry OP. You missed the boat. If you bunker isn't full off ammo, guns, gold, chainsaws and MREs by now....well it's gonna be ugly for you.
This is a common misconception.
All that you really need is to know is where the survivalists have their bunkers, and how to make some mustard gas out of simple household cleaners.
Hahahaha!! A friend's husband has started this whole mindset. He participates in survivalist discussion boards and has started stockpiling lentils.
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Bunkers shmunkers. Every Mormon house has a year's worth of food in it for a bigger family than yours. You should be able to pick them out pretty easy.
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OK, I think we have decided the meltdown is NOT going to happen..
Personally I am waiting for a 20 to 25% pullback then will start investing sidelined cash. I am semi RE'd so not a lot of money going into savings at this point so generally I am limited to rebalancing efforts to get a bit of a boost on the market average.
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What is the appropriate time to wait before going cannibal in a shit hits the fan scenario? You want to make sure that it's not just a local blackout or something, but you also want to be able to stockpile the best looking cuts of meat (and preserve them for jerky and such) before they get too lean. . .
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OK, I think we have decided the meltdown is NOT going to happen..
Personally I am waiting for a 20 to 25% pullback then will start investing sidelined cash. I am semi RE'd so not a lot of money going into savings at this point so generally I am limited to rebalancing efforts to get a bit of a boost on the market average.
you can visit the doomer sites and be stocking up on cannned goods if you wish, but even in the great depression people still went out, had cars repaired, even went on vacation. if we are starting the next recession, it will bottom out eventually and people will adapt to whatever it limits them to like not buying new clothes that year.
glad to finally find someone here besides me not still throwing money in a mkt in a declining economy and mkt. conserving principle is my #1 goal.
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Sorry to be impolite, but my first response was "Bite me." And I didn't bother with clicking the link. YMMV.
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OK, I think we have decided the meltdown is NOT going to happen..
Personally I am waiting for a 20 to 25% pullback then will start investing sidelined cash. I am semi RE'd so not a lot of money going into savings at this point so generally I am limited to rebalancing efforts to get a bit of a boost on the market average.
you can visit the doomer sites and be stocking up on cannned goods if you wish, but even in the great depression people still went out, had cars repaired, even went on vacation. if we are starting the next recession, it will bottom out eventually and people will adapt to whatever it limits them to like not buying new clothes that year.
glad to finally find someone here besides me not still throwing money in a mkt in a declining economy and mkt. conserving principle is my #1 goal.
Yes I have a foot in both camps.. While I need to preserve capital, I also suffer from GBS (greedy Bastard Syndrome). This means I like to find low risk ways to boost my stash.
I am in the fortunate position of having access to pensions starting this year and rental income. Together these pretty much cover our living costs so I can afford to be a little more greedy than the average retiree who has to live of their stash at 25X expenses.
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Bunkers shmunkers. Every Mormon house has a year's worth of food in it for a bigger family than yours. You should be able to pick them out pretty easy.
Make sure to pick a family smart enough to have bought a wheat grinder. I once spent a day showing my LDS friends how to grind wheat to make bread. All of them had the wheat- no one though to have a grinder, or any idea what to do with the wheat they all stored.
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It hurts now to see that my money is back down to when I invested it in the first place (2 years ago), but talk to me in 10 years.
I wish I had the financial flexibility to raise my 401k.
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It hurts now to see that my money is back down to when I invested it in the first place (2 years ago), but talk to me in 10 years.
I wish I had the financial flexibility to raise my 401k.
But you are contributing to your 401k right?.. if you are 10+ years from retirement, keep buyig stock ETF's.
The lower the market goes the more you will make when it recovers.
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I love my husband dearly, but he is a financial catastrophizer extraordinaire.
He yanked his money out of his 401K right before the 2008 collapse. I did not. My 401K dived and then recovered. He still has not put his 401K back in the market 8 years later because he is afraid that he will lose all his money so it just sits there losing money every day. I, on the other hand left it in and keep adding. Every year or so, whenever Zerohedge tells him to or the markets start a correction or downturn he starts to freak out and tells me to cash out my 401K like he did. And I don't. And I won't. I finally flipped my lid a few years ago when he went on one of his rants and explained to him that I fundamentally disagree with his philosophy and I will make decisions about my own earnings, he can make decisions about his, and since then he has left me alone. So despite the fact that I have put less money in my 401K overall since I have worked about 8 less years than him, I am ahead. But of course, when the financial meltdown happens, I'll be thankful that his money isn't in the market. /sarcasm.
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I don't even have to click the video. Let me guess: Buy gold?
Thats what Trump said.....looks like he would of been right for a trade!
haha..
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I am risk averse, though, so I will hedge my bets by eating all the good chocolate in the house. (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/off-topic/foods-off-limits-to-you-or-your-so-at-home/msg933555/#msg933555) For the things that really matter, you really cannot be too careful. :)
So very sensible! Eating all the good chocolate in the house is virtually the answer to any catastrophe or threatened catastrophe.
Or non-catastrophe, for that matter.
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Thomas Friedman at the New York Times has an interesting article on similar thoughts.
http://nyti.ms/1OvMzAN
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Sorry OP. You missed the boat. If you bunker isn't full off ammo, guns, gold, chainsaws and MREs by now....well it's gonna be ugly for you.
This is a common misconception.
All that you really need is to know is where the survivalists have their bunkers, and how to make some mustard gas out of simple household cleaners.
Ha! Reminds me of an uncomfortable joke I made at a permaculture workshop. One of the other participants kept talking about how great her bug out bag was, and how she always had it with her, how many different ways she had of making fire, etc. She asked me what I had in my pockets, and I said I had a Swiss army knife and a good idea of where to get a well-stocked bug out bag. :)
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I am risk averse, though, so I will hedge my bets by eating all the good chocolate in the house. (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/off-topic/foods-off-limits-to-you-or-your-so-at-home/msg933555/#msg933555) For the things that really matter, you really cannot be too careful. :)
So very sensible! Eating all the good chocolate in the house is virtually the answer to any catastrophe or threatened catastrophe.
Or non-catastrophe, for that matter.
Chocolate is a vegetable right?...:)
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I am risk averse, though, so I will hedge my bets by eating all the good chocolate in the house. (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/off-topic/foods-off-limits-to-you-or-your-so-at-home/msg933555/#msg933555) For the things that really matter, you really cannot be too careful. :)
So very sensible! Eating all the good chocolate in the house is virtually the answer to any catastrophe or threatened catastrophe.
Or non-catastrophe, for that matter.
Chocolate is a vegetable right?...:)
During TEOTWAWKI, everything is a vegetable.
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I am risk averse, though, so I will hedge my bets by eating all the good chocolate in the house. (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/off-topic/foods-off-limits-to-you-or-your-so-at-home/msg933555/#msg933555) For the things that really matter, you really cannot be too careful. :)
So very sensible! Eating all the good chocolate in the house is virtually the answer to any catastrophe or threatened catastrophe.
Or non-catastrophe, for that matter.
Chocolate is a vegetable right?...:)
Of course chocolate is a vegetable!
- Cocoa Beans are beans and for me legumes are vegetables
- sugar cane and sugar beets grow on a field and are definitely a vegetable
- cream comes from cows, they eat grass and herbs - clearly a vegetable
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The debt based economy is coming to an end... No way this can go on
I will still continue to max out my accounts but I'm probably going to start buying some precious metals.... maybe 10%
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As opposed to that time when the global markets collapsed, and I listened to it, in real time, on NPR? It was called 2008. Been there, done that, literally have the T-shirt (I'm sure I did a 5K somewhere that has 2008 on it).
What I remember about things preceding that, was wild optimism about the housing market specifically, and the rest of the economy generally. Also found out the hard way about shitty market timing, as we bought a house in Phoenix in July 2008, thinking it was probably "near the bottom". It had dropped nearly 50% of the top, after all. Whoops.
My thought is, oil being cheap is a symptom, not the cause. The world economy is weak right now. At some point, the cheapness of oil will likely lead to economic growth, since oil is the crude commodity used to make most of the items and services companies sell.
I remember December 2007-January 2008. I was staying at my college over winter break to work for the Grounds department, and there weren't many people around, so I'd hole up in my dorm room and listen to NPR. I remember thinking at the time we were in a recession, though I don't think it was "official" for a few more months.
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Bunkers shmunkers. Every Mormon house has a year's worth of food in it for a bigger family than yours. You should be able to pick them out pretty easy.
Make sure to pick a family smart enough to have bought a wheat grinder. I once spent a day showing my LDS friends how to grind wheat to make bread. All of them had the wheat- no one though to have a grinder, or any idea what to do with the wheat they all stored.
Ah, the wheat. I was watching a documentary on Mormon polygamists and they were grinding wheat for their bread. Because when you have eighteen kids eighteen and under, what you really need is one more labor intensive kitchen chore, amirite?
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This is a common misconception.
All that you really need is to know is where the survivalists have their bunkers, and how to make some mustard gas out of simple household cleaners.
We put the heads of folks that try dumping their gas into our fake ventilation shafts on poles around the bunker. It's cute how they think we didn't plan for that. They look so surprised. ;)
LMFAO
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Bunkers shmunkers. Every Mormon house has a year's worth of food in it for a bigger family than yours. You should be able to pick them out pretty easy.
Make sure to pick a family smart enough to have bought a wheat grinder. I once spent a day showing my LDS friends how to grind wheat to make bread. All of them had the wheat- no one though to have a grinder, or any idea what to do with the wheat they all stored.
Ah, the wheat. I was watching a documentary on Mormon polygamists and they were grinding wheat for their bread. Because when you have eighteen kids eighteen and under, what you really need is one more labor intensive kitchen chore, amirite?
My parents weren't polygamists, but we had both a hand-crank grinder and an attachment for the Oster kitchen centre. (Think Kitchenaid stand mixer). Dad was really big on 'rotating stock' through the food storage, so we made sure to use up the oldest pail of wheat every year and replaced it with a new one. Sometimes we'd use the manual grinder just to be sure everyone knew how it worked.
Our bread was soaked in tears.
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(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_0bWFoPo2o2c/SRSwGPRFCjI/AAAAAAAAAmw/kArMhIlVPAg/s400/CanOpener.jpg)
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What would you say the new technology was during 2008/2009 market adjustment?
Better head stakes.
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(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_0bWFoPo2o2c/SRSwGPRFCjI/AAAAAAAAAmw/kArMhIlVPAg/s400/CanOpener.jpg)
I know of many folks who have canned an "Emergency Can" with a can opener, soap, first aid essentials, etc. in it, then painted the can so it would be distinct from the rest. Once that can gets opened, the rest will be easy.
Here's how its done: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oH2NahLjx-Y
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Solution: news diet.
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I know of many folks who have canned an "Emergency Can" with a can opener, soap, first aid essentials, etc. in it, then painted the can so it would be distinct from the rest. Once that can gets opened, the rest will be easy.
Forgive me if this is a dumb question, but why would you want to put a can opener inside a can? They aren't particularly fragile or expensive. Why not just have a can opener (or two, or five...) sitting on the shelf with all the cans, ready to go?
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Bunkers shmunkers. Every Mormon house has a year's worth of food in it for a bigger family than yours. You should be able to pick them out pretty easy.
Make sure to pick a family smart enough to have bought a wheat grinder. I once spent a day showing my LDS friends how to grind wheat to make bread. All of them had the wheat- no one though to have a grinder, or any idea what to do with the wheat they all stored.
Wheat grinders won't help you if you are paleo. You will need to pick off a cattle rancher's family. Or a hog farmer's.
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Bunkers shmunkers. Every Mormon house has a year's worth of food in it for a bigger family than yours. You should be able to pick them out pretty easy.
Make sure to pick a family smart enough to have bought a wheat grinder. I once spent a day showing my LDS friends how to grind wheat to make bread. All of them had the wheat- no one though to have a grinder, or any idea what to do with the wheat they all stored.
Wheat grinders won't help you if you are paleo. You will need to pick off a cattle rancher's family. Or a hog farmer's.
I'm guessing your post might be a bit tongue-in-cheeck, but if civilization collapses and we've kicked into survivalist mode, is anyone really going to insist on sticking to a particular diet?
"you scrounged up some fresh veggies? well are they non-GMO and organically grown?"
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I know of many folks who have canned an "Emergency Can" with a can opener, soap, first aid essentials, etc. in it, then painted the can so it would be distinct from the rest. Once that can gets opened, the rest will be easy.
Forgive me if this is a dumb question, but why would you want to put a can opener inside a can? They aren't particularly fragile or expensive. Why not just have a can opener (or two, or five...) sitting on the shelf with all the cans, ready to go?
You'll have to ask a survivalist this. I only report the news.
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I know of many folks who have canned an "Emergency Can" with a can opener, soap, first aid essentials, etc. in it, then painted the can so it would be distinct from the rest. Once that can gets opened, the rest will be easy.
Forgive me if this is a dumb question, but why would you want to put a can opener inside a can? They aren't particularly fragile or expensive. Why not just have a can opener (or two, or five...) sitting on the shelf with all the cans, ready to go?
Actually, I can answer this one. It's not really about the can opener, it's about having spare tools around. And while it may sound nuts to put a can opener inside of a can, the low oxygen environment will keep it from rusting, even if the can were to get wet. And the person in need of a meal, and a can opener to get that meal out of another can, can open the first can with a rock if need be. That technique tends to make a mess with actual cans of food.
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I know of many folks who have canned an "Emergency Can" with a can opener, soap, first aid essentials, etc. in it, then painted the can so it would be distinct from the rest. Once that can gets opened, the rest will be easy.
Forgive me if this is a dumb question, but why would you want to put a can opener inside a can? They aren't particularly fragile or expensive. Why not just have a can opener (or two, or five...) sitting on the shelf with all the cans, ready to go?
Actually, I can answer this one. It's not really about the can opener, it's about having spare tools around. And while it may sound nuts to put a can opener inside of a can, the low oxygen environment will keep it from rusting, even if the can were to get wet. And the person in need of a meal, and a can opener to get that meal out of another can, can open the first can with a rock if need be. That technique tends to make a mess with actual cans of food.
ah, thanks for the explanation MoonShadow.
Ok - follow up question; why use a can for this at all? I'm thinking that a 3" PVC pipe* with a screw cap (water-tight, crush proof, non-corrosive) would be an easier, cheap and tool-free way of keeping things like a can-opener, first aid kits, knife, etc all immediately accessible without requiring you to break open an actual can. Plus... cans can rust too, right?
*I thought of the PVC tube simply because that's what we use in the field when we need to leave equipment there exposed to the elements. Years later everything inside is still protected and dry.
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I know of many folks who have canned an "Emergency Can" with a can opener, soap, first aid essentials, etc. in it, then painted the can so it would be distinct from the rest. Once that can gets opened, the rest will be easy.
Forgive me if this is a dumb question, but why would you want to put a can opener inside a can? They aren't particularly fragile or expensive. Why not just have a can opener (or two, or five...) sitting on the shelf with all the cans, ready to go?
Actually, I can answer this one. It's not really about the can opener, it's about having spare tools around. And while it may sound nuts to put a can opener inside of a can, the low oxygen environment will keep it from rusting, even if the can were to get wet. And the person in need of a meal, and a can opener to get that meal out of another can, can open the first can with a rock if need be. That technique tends to make a mess with actual cans of food.
ah, thanks for the explanation MoonShadow.
Ok - follow up question; why use a can for this at all? I'm thinking that a 3" PVC pipe* with a screw cap (water-tight, crush proof, non-corrosive) would be an easier, cheap and tool-free way of keeping things like a can-opener, first aid kits, knife, etc all immediately accessible without requiring you to break open an actual can. Plus... cans can rust too, right?
*I thought of the PVC tube simply because that's what we use in the field when we need to leave equipment there exposed to the elements. Years later everything inside is still protected and dry.
Nereo, if they were that logical they wouldn't be doomsday prepping. C'mon, get with the program. The great leader said to can a can opener one week in high priests quorum (or whatever). The faithful put their can openers in cans. Now when the apocalypse comes, all will be well because the inspired priest said so.
Sheesh. We'll never get anyplace with someone questioning things like this.
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Ok - follow up question; why use a can for this at all?
Because they already have the canning gear, which isn't cheap.
I'm thinking that a 3" PVC pipe* with a screw cap (water-tight, crush proof, non-corrosive) would be an easier, cheap and tool-free way of keeping things like a can-opener, first aid kits, knife, etc all immediately accessible without requiring you to break open an actual can. Plus... cans can rust too, right?
*I thought of the PVC tube simply because that's what we use in the field when we need to leave equipment there exposed to the elements. Years later everything inside is still protected and dry.
Some do use PVC pipe. Some use vacuum sealed plastic bags. Most people just use what they have available, not the best tool for the task. I have a prepper friend who recently bought a 30 gallon plasic barrel that was sold for the purpose of dry cask storage of tools, and he keeps it in his storm cellar. I don't know what he has in it, but at $160 for one, I doubt he is keeping something as mundane as a can opener in there. Dry rice is also commonly used as a desiccant.
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Nereo, if they were that logical they wouldn't be doomsday prepping.
I could say the same for your hobbies, Prospector.
Besides, I look at it more like an insurance policy that I keep in my basement. Lets call it "Collapse Indemnity", it's a relatively cheap policy to protect against a relatively remote risk, but since it's a systemic risk I'm hedging against, buying a policy from a 3rd party is ineffective. I think that it's better than keeping a couple thousand in gold or silver, anyway.
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Nereo, if they were that logical they wouldn't be doomsday prepping.
I could say the same for your hobbies, Prospector.
Besides, I look at it more like an insurance policy that I keep in my basement. Lets call it "Collapse Indemnity", it's a relatively cheap policy to protect against a relatively remote risk, but since it's a systemic risk I'm hedging against, buying a policy from a 3rd party is ineffective. I think that it's better than keeping a couple thousand in gold or silver, anyway.
Chacun à son goût.
Prep away my friend, you do no harm to anyone. And yes, if you followed the saga of Momma's Christmas gift in my journal, I have many logical shortcomings.
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Nereo, if they were that logical they wouldn't be doomsday prepping.
I could say the same for your hobbies, Prospector.
Besides, I look at it more like an insurance policy that I keep in my basement. Lets call it "Collapse Indemnity", it's a relatively cheap policy to protect against a relatively remote risk, but since it's a systemic risk I'm hedging against, buying a policy from a 3rd party is ineffective. I think that it's better than keeping a couple thousand in gold or silver, anyway.
Personally, I've always found myself more inclined toward homesteading and backpacking instincts, but for us at least we feel they overlap and give us some measure of protection against some truly nasty conditions. We extensively can (actually preserve in mason jars) a lot of food during the summer nad fall not because we're preparing for doomsday but because we really like preserving food. We buy food in bulk and always have several kg of rice, beans, lentils, etc on hand. From our backpacking hobbies we also have stoves, fuel, water purifiers and a general sense of how to survive for weeks at a time (make fire, poo in the forest, fish, etc). Are we prepared for a complete and permenant breakdown of all public services? I doubt it. But we certainly would be find for several weeks holed up in our home with no power, running water, etc (for example: a massive ice storm).
I had a friend who started dating a seriously hardcore 'prepper'. After a certain point, those people just scare me.
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What is the appropriate time to wait before going cannibal in a shit hits the fan scenario? You want to make sure that it's not just a local blackout or something, but you also want to be able to stockpile the best looking cuts of meat (and preserve them for jerky and such) before they get too lean. . .
Still unsure about this question guys, but I'll keep my sharpest shankin' knife safely stored in a can for emergencies now!
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I've never understood a survivalist mentality (at least one that actively preps for doomsday). I mean, sure you have your basement full of supplies and whatnot, but it's still your fucking basement. If the world is shit, why would you even want to survive at all?
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Can't believe I waited so long before reading this thread all the way through. Thanks guys. I'll remember your posts with great fondness when the power grid goes down and I'm huddled in my doomsday shelter on the other side of the world with nothing else to do but wait for my cruel death.
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I've never understood a survivalist mentality (at least one that actively preps for doomsday). I mean, sure you have your basement full of supplies and whatnot, but it's still your fucking basement. If the world is shit, why would you even want to survive at all?
Oh, if it's Armageddon, I'm pretty certain I wouldn't want to survive. I probably couldn't anyway, since I'm dependent upon modern drugs that keep me alive. If we end up in Alas, Babylon, I'm a dead man anyway.
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Can't believe I waited so long before reading this thread all the way through. Thanks guys. I'll remember your posts with great fondness when the power grid goes down and I'm huddled in my doomsday shelter on the other side of the world with nothing else to do but wait for my cruel death.
If I lived anywhere near your part of the world, my doomsday shelter would have a sail.
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Can't believe I waited so long before reading this thread all the way through. Thanks guys. I'll remember your posts with great fondness when the power grid goes down and I'm huddled in my doomsday shelter on the other side of the world with nothing else to do but wait for my cruel death.
If I lived anywhere near your part of the world, my doomsday shelter would have a sail.
Who says you can't huddle in a cute little boat, drifting all alone in an ocean of debris left behind by the rest of humanity?
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Can't believe I waited so long before reading this thread all the way through. Thanks guys. I'll remember your posts with great fondness when the power grid goes down and I'm huddled in my doomsday shelter on the other side of the world with nothing else to do but wait for my cruel death.
If I lived anywhere near your part of the world, my doomsday shelter would have a sail.
Who says you can't huddle in a cute little boat, drifting all alone in an ocean of debris left behind by the rest of humanity?
Nothing, but if it didn't have a sail or a yuloh, you'd just be sharing their fate when you ran out of gas.
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Can't believe I waited so long before reading this thread all the way through. Thanks guys. I'll remember your posts with great fondness when the power grid goes down and I'm huddled in my doomsday shelter on the other side of the world with nothing else to do but wait for my cruel death.
If I lived anywhere near your part of the world, my doomsday shelter would have a sail.
Who says you can't huddle in a cute little boat, drifting all alone in an ocean of debris left behind by the rest of humanity?
Nothing, but if it didn't have a sail or a yuloh, you'd just be sharing their fate when you ran out of gas.
That's okay. Life is pointless without Internet anyway.
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What is the appropriate time to wait before going cannibal in a shit hits the fan scenario? You want to make sure that it's not just a local blackout or something, but you also want to be able to stockpile the best looking cuts of meat (and preserve them for jerky and such) before they get too lean. . .
Still unsure about this question guys, but I'll keep my sharpest shankin' knife safely stored in a can for emergencies now!
This is a pants-on-fire case study if I've ever seen one! I believe you need to start practicing cannibalism Now, and not later!
If you start early on, you can mentally get over the squeamish and morally reprehensible realization of eating another person for meat. Once you get over that initial hurdle, you can begin to snowball your meat stash for emergency rations in the future!
Here's your reading assignment on How to be a Healthy Cannibal (https://www.inverse.com/article/7449-is-it-possible-to-be-a-healthy-cannibal-and-avoid-prion-disease). Please read all relevant material, and ignore the silly parts dissuading you from living your dream.
Remember, if you had the willpower to FIRE before the apocalypse, then you have what it takes to "Fight. Ingest. Reproduce. Escape." in the post-apocalyptic world! Good luck GuitarStv!
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What is the appropriate time to wait before going cannibal in a shit hits the fan scenario? You want to make sure that it's not just a local blackout or something, but you also want to be able to stockpile the best looking cuts of meat (and preserve them for jerky and such) before they get too lean. . .
Still unsure about this question guys, but I'll keep my sharpest shankin' knife safely stored in a can for emergencies now!
This is a pants-on-fire case study if I've ever seen one! I believe you need to start practicing cannibalism Now, and not later!
If you start early on, you can mentally get over the squeamish and morally reprehensible realization of eating another person for meat. Once you get over that initial hurdle, you can begin to snowball your meat stash for emergency rations in the future!
Here's your reading assignment on How to be a Health Cannibal (https://www.inverse.com/article/7449-is-it-possible-to-be-a-healthy-cannibal-and-avoid-prion-disease). Please read all relevant material, and ignore the silly parts dissuading you from living your dream.
Remember, if you had the willpower to FIRE before the apocalypse, then you have what it takes to "Fight. Ingest. Reproduce. Escape." in the post-apocalyptic world! Good luck GuitarStv!
There is such a thing as over-prepared and I think this may be it.
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What is the appropriate time to wait before going cannibal in a shit hits the fan scenario? You want to make sure that it's not just a local blackout or something, but you also want to be able to stockpile the best looking cuts of meat (and preserve them for jerky and such) before they get too lean. . .
Still unsure about this question guys, but I'll keep my sharpest shankin' knife safely stored in a can for emergencies now!
This is a pants-on-fire case study if I've ever seen one! I believe you need to start practicing cannibalism Now, and not later!
If you start early on, you can mentally get over the squeamish and morally reprehensible realization of eating another person for meat. Once you get over that initial hurdle, you can begin to snowball your meat stash for emergency rations in the future!
Here's your reading assignment on How to be a Health Cannibal (https://www.inverse.com/article/7449-is-it-possible-to-be-a-healthy-cannibal-and-avoid-prion-disease). Please read all relevant material, and ignore the silly parts dissuading you from living your dream.
Remember, if you had the willpower to FIRE before the apocalypse, then you have what it takes to "Fight. Ingest. Reproduce. Escape." in the post-apocalyptic world! Good luck GuitarStv!
It's got to have everything the body needs right? Ok, sure it doesn't work exactly like that, but maybe it's the most efficient meat source. Too dark?
All I know is I'm going to be pissed when doomsday happens the day after I retire.
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I don't think I want to click on that link in case the FBI is monitoring it!...:(
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(http://images.sodahead.com/profiles/0/0/0/4/2/5/5/7/0/Babies-are-delicious-91214128423.jpeg)
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The Walmart closing stores thing is stupid. Walmart is closing because it's no longer economical to have a gigantic store every 1.5 miles or whatever the hell they have, and because of outside pressure from ecommerce (Amazon)...not because the economy is collapsing.
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I recall reading somewhere that human meat is like rabbit meat, where you'll starve to death if that's the only thing you eat.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_starvation
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I dunno where you live, but there are not enough lean humans in my neighbourhood to be concerned about that.
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if the link in the first post is believable then FFS don't watch Jim Cramer.
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I recall reading somewhere that human meat is like rabbit meat, where you'll starve to death if that's the only thing you eat.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_starvation
Would it help if the humans were bacon-wrapped? And where would you find bacon post-apocalypse?
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I've been reading these predictions since 2009....
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I've been reading these predictions since 2009....
They're going to be right one of these times!
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I recall reading somewhere that human meat is like rabbit meat, where you'll starve to death if that's the only thing you eat.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_starvation
I can affirm that wild rabbit is incredibly lean meat, but so is deer meat. I typically add pork fat to anything other than deer steak, and sometimes I wrap deer steak medallions in bacon anyway. If your TEOTWAWKI plan is to eat your neighbors, I think you can find enough fat to manage. If your neighbors look anything like mine, half of them could live on a vitamin pill & water for a month.
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Personally, I'm still waiting for the Rapture.
How do you know it hasn't happened yet?
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Personally, I'm still waiting for the Rapture.
How do you know it hasn't happened yet?
Still too many religious nutters around. ;)
(http://i.imgur.com/7tadkMK.jpg)
Ah, but how do *they* know it hasn't happened, and they just weren't included?
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Personally, I'm still waiting for the Rapture.
How do you know it hasn't happened yet?
Still too many religious nutters around. ;)
(http://i.imgur.com/7tadkMK.jpg)
Don't be silly, Donald Trump and the entire GOP is still here.. EVERYONE knows they represent Jesus Christ here on Earth!
Cough, puke.. hack
Ah, but how do *they* know it hasn't happened, and they just weren't included?
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UGH
I am now on the side of the "world ending" people.
Company announced that due to the low oil prices our annual bonus for 2015 will be "somewhat lower".
Now I'd like to know what "somewhat" really means....
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UGH
I am now on the side of the "world ending" people.
Company announced that due to the low oil prices our annual bonus for 2015 will be "somewhat lower".
Now I'd like to know what "somewhat" really means....
Means you pay them!
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How do you know it hasn't happened yet
Good point. All 42 righteous people are probably already gone.
At least I'm safe from Quetzalcoatl...
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UGH
I am now on the side of the "world ending" people.
Company announced that due to the low oil prices our annual bonus for 2015 will be "somewhat lower".
Now I'd like to know what "somewhat" really means....
Means you pay them!
LOL actually thats not so far off!
I am buying roughly $200 worth of employee shares (50% top up) every month.
My mantra is "they are on sale right now and will go back up eventually"
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UGH
I am now on the side of the "world ending" people.
Company announced that due to the low oil prices our annual bonus for 2015 will be "somewhat lower".
Now I'd like to know what "somewhat" really means....
Means you pay them!
LOL actually thats not so far off!
I am buying roughly $200 worth of employee shares (50% top up) every month.
My mantra is "they are on sale right now and will go back up eventually"
I hate to say this but in the case of a single company, this is never guaranteed.
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UGH
I am now on the side of the "world ending" people.
Company announced that due to the low oil prices our annual bonus for 2015 will be "somewhat lower".
Now I'd like to know what "somewhat" really means....
Means you pay them!
LOL actually thats not so far off!
I am buying roughly $200 worth of employee shares (50% top up) every month.
My mantra is "they are on sale right now and will go back up eventually"
I hate to say this but in the case of a single company, this is never guaranteed.
Truth. The employees at Enron were famous for favoring their own company stock. You should choose a limit to how much of your savings you have invested into the company you work for, I peg mine at 5%. The advantage is, as an employee, you have some limited insider's perspective (although you still can't see the books to know if the board has been up to no good, as was Enron's case); the disadvantage is that, if your company is subject to an industry slowdown (or a global recession) there is an increased risk that you could get laid off while at the same time your company stock is in decline. Investing in the same company that writes your paycheck is pretty much the opposite of diversification.
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As opposed to that time when the global markets collapsed, and I listened to it, in real time, on NPR? It was called 2008. Been there, done that, literally have the T-shirt (I'm sure I did a 5K somewhere that has 2008 on it).
What I remember about things preceding that, was wild optimism about the housing market specifically, and the rest of the economy generally. Also found out the hard way about shitty market timing, as we bought a house in Phoenix in July 2008, thinking it was probably "near the bottom". It had dropped nearly 50% of the top, after all. Whoops.
My thought is, oil being cheap is a symptom, not the cause. The world economy is weak right now. At some point, the cheapness of oil will likely lead to economic growth, since oil is the crude commodity used to make most of the items and services companies sell.
One of the historical lessons I remember is that whenever there is a market adjustment it is the dawn of a new technology. If you can spot that tech emerging as the market fails, you will do very well in the recovery. If you are too busy watching your own hard slide you will not see the new trend emerge until its too late.
Blockchain tech will be it
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yes lots of employees at HP had 100% of their 401k's in company stock.... lost 2/3rds of it at least!
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What is the appropriate time to wait before going cannibal in a shit hits the fan scenario? You want to make sure that it's not just a local blackout or something, but you also want to be able to stockpile the best looking cuts of meat (and preserve them for jerky and such) before they get too lean. . .
Well, I think there's really two different questions here.
1. At what point is it OK to eat human meat I just find/buy?
There comes a point in any major apocalypse where the availability of freshly dead humans from non-human-hunting incidents starts to become the preferred alternative to yet another night of boiled boots. I think that point is once I've given up on getting laid. For those paying attention, the only thing keeping me from eating human right now is availability and what prospective sexual partners will think of me.
2. At what point is it OK to start hunting humans for meat?
As Captain Reynolds put it, "If somebody tries to kill you, you try to kill them right back." And then, you know, if you're hungry. That's just good hunting etiquette (you eat what you kill).
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What is the appropriate time to wait before going cannibal in a shit hits the fan scenario? You want to make sure that it's not just a local blackout or something, but you also want to be able to stockpile the best looking cuts of meat (and preserve them for jerky and such) before they get too lean. . .
Probably widely appropriate as soon as this store opens in your neighborhood:
(http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/simpsons/images/f/f3/Donner's.png/revision/latest?cb=20101008004709)
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I guess "You are what you eat." is kind of like "Eat what you are." I chew my hang nails, but that can't work in the long run.