Author Topic: Therapist vs life coach?  (Read 3440 times)

firelight

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Therapist vs life coach?
« on: May 07, 2018, 08:11:39 AM »
Hi
I'm at the point in life where I would appreciate some direction about the future. I've tried speaking to family and friends, and while they have some good ideas, none of them are formed enough for me to work on. I guess I need a bit more hand holding. All this points to a life coach.

But, I also need someone to understand my past and how my experiences affect my decisions. I'm not sure if a life coach would delve into it and am wondering if a therapist is a better person to help me.

Which have you used? What would you recommend?

Mr. Green

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Re: Therapist vs life coach?
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2018, 08:53:58 AM »
I can't speak for a life coach but when I was first FIRE'd I developed some anxiety problems related to a bunch of big life changes we were trying to make all at the same time (FIRE being a part of that) and seeing a therapist was very helpful. Being able to talk to someone in a well thought out manner, with them asking questions and/or making suggestions, spurred me to realize/find the answers that I just couldn't seem to come up with on my own. Unfortunately it's not an inexpensive endeavor. I strongly recommend looking for someone who has previous experience dealing with the topics you want to discuss. It will help minimize the chance that you come away feeling like you're not accomplishing anything.

scottydog

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Re: Therapist vs life coach?
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2018, 08:56:28 AM »
I have no experience with a life coach, but some recent experience with therapy for depression.

About a year ago I had 6 sessions of talk therapy and we spent a lot of time delving into my past and I didn't find it helpful at all. I left each session more confused than when I arrived. These sessions were covered by my EAP and I was glad when they ended. In hindsight, I should have switched to a new psychologist after the first session. At the time, I kept thinking that it would improve.

More recently I found a clinic specializing in cognitive behavioural therapy (CBT) and this was life-changing. I've moved from suffering from depression to recovering from depression and it's a thousand times better. My therapist used CBT to address the immediate low points and has moved on to acceptance and commitment therapy (ACT) to guide lifestyle and thinking changes that will prevent a relapse. There are parallels between CBT and Stoicism, and between ACT and Buddhism, and MMM himself has a great piece about Stoicism and Buddhism.
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2016/06/08/happiness-is-the-only-logical-pursuit/

I'm basically at the end of therapy now and I'm still craving the kind of direction that I would expect from a life coach. I (perhaps naively) see the role of therapy as helping to regain mental health so I spend more time living my life than I spend managing my mental health. Life coaching brings images of personal challenges to optimize for happiness.

Maybe you can do both, one after the other or simultaneously, depending on what specific help you're looking for. You may also find a life coach with a background in psychology, or even that you click so well with them that they can effectively help you explore how your past influences your present.

My only recommendation would be to spend more time meeting different therapists and/or life coaches to find the best fit for you.

Best of luck!

joonifloofeefloo

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Re: Therapist vs life coach?
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2018, 09:35:26 AM »
I’m sure every life coach is different, just as every therapist is, so just my experience...

1. I did not like my experience with two life coaches. They kept giving me instructions, with zero regard for circumstances. Too quick to have (generic) “solutions.”

2. For decision-making, and diving into what’s behind it, I find this forum extremely helpful (and free!).

3. I’ve loved therapy. I can figure out my right solutions, shift a pattern, etc, if I have a space to talk about stuff, am listened to well, etc. 100% agree one needs to shop around, find the right fit.

Dr.Optimus

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Re: Therapist vs life coach?
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2018, 09:47:44 AM »
If credentialing is important to you, please be advised that most therapists and psychologists have to go through some amount of schooling and supervised practice before they can practice therapeutic techniques on their own.  Most graduate level programs do a good job of teaching students how to approach things like CBT and ACT, which are very powerful and heavily grounded in a research-based approach.  In terms of treatment outcomes, these tend to be the best.  But, as others have pointed out, quality of training does not always translate to quality of practitioner - theres a lot of quacks out there, be sure to find someone you can trust and who you have a good rapport with, and don't be afraid to cancel service if they aren't meeting your needs.

Most life coaches, as I understand the term, are not overseen by a licensing board or ethics committee, and no formal training is required in order to be a life coach. 

drachma

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Re: Therapist vs life coach?
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2018, 02:40:32 PM »
everyone's experience is different, all therapists and coaches are different etc, so it can be tough to navigate. I've not had any experience with "life coaches" and I worry about their lack of credentialing and the lack of research-based approaches brought up by previous posters.

I have found a therapy situation which appears to be working exceedingly well for me. This probably has to do with several factors, including how well-defined your personal goals are, the therapist's approach/style, and also how receptive you are to it.

In my situation:

- I have fairly well defined goals about what I want to do in my life
- I am/was already receptive to techniques similar to common therapeutic approaches like CBT, MBCT, etc that the therapist is trained in. (This means I am open to ideas like meditation, mindfulness etc but wasn't able to make it work for me in the past).
- My problem is that I have a lot of negative thinking (depression) and resultant reactive behaviors which were making it difficult to achieve my goals
- Was lucky to find a convenient therapist that I quickly "clicked" with

so basically I was very well primed to be receptive to new ways of thinking about my behavior and ready to make changes to try and fix it. the therapist has helped to be an objective 3rd party in helping me examine my behaviors, the motivations behind them, the patterns of thinking that lead me to those behaviors, where those ways of thinking came from (past experiences), and helping me learn tools so that I can notice when those thoughts arise and make more conscious decisions about whether to act on them or ignore them.

the therapist is NOT there to tell you what goals you "should" have. So if you are lacking definition or direction in your life you are not going to get any from a therapist. They are instead focused on helping you understand your own experience so you can come to your own conclusions more consciously and surely. My problems are not "no direction at all" but rather "too many possible directions and unable to choose" - he has helped with that. But if you are struggling with any negative self-talk, things like guilt or shame or feelings of depression etc, a therapist can absolutely help. They are there to help you think more objectively and clearly which can help cut through confusion (that perhaps you have created for yourself).

I imagine a life coach would help you more if you just have no idea what you want to do, but aren't really suffering from any unjustified negativity, self-harm/self-sabotage, or depressive type feelings. but given the lack of credentialing I think you are just picking a person to tell you what to do. That might work, and I'm sure there are good and effective ones out there, there's just not a science-based way of separating the effective ones from the non.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 02:42:56 PM by drachma »

elliha

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Re: Therapist vs life coach?
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2018, 03:07:51 PM »
I have experience with a nurse with some training in this area and a psychologist. The nurse was useless for me, she did not understand the complexity of my situation at the time and could not understand anything beyond the top layer of my problems so to speak. The psychologist on the other hand was great. She somehow got me back to thinking my usual way and helped me switch my brain back from the anxiety and my thinking of catastrophes waiting to happen. I still sometimes go overboard and start thinking in those bad patterns but now I can break it. I would prefer someone having a little more training so I would suggest going the therapist route. That said I also agree that it is also a question about personality and being a match. The psychologist "got me".

sui generis

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Re: Therapist vs life coach?
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2018, 04:01:06 PM »
You can do both at once.  Some licensed therapists also do coaching work.  I happened to find my current coach when I was more in need of her therapy services.  I'm going back now for coaching on prepping for RE! 

I'd seen about 2-3 therapists/counselors before her and they were a little helpful, but mostly I was like "meh" and that's when I could have really used some serious help!  It was only as I was already coming out of my most devastating period already that I happened to find her and she helped me think in new ways that I believe will help me avoid ever getting so bad again.  Because of the creative and effective way she has of thinking, I knew she would be just the right person to help me think about my RE concerns in a new way, too.  So I contacted her out of the blue recently and I've gone 3-4 times so far and again am finding her to be just amazing again, in this new role. 

I found her by looking for covered providers under my insurance at the time.  She happened to have a location very close to me which was the other arbitrary criteria I used.  It really is just luck.  I hate the thought of having to go to a dozen therapists/coach to find the one that clicks (especially because it might take a handful of sessions to really know), but based off my pretty extensive experience at this point, it's more important to have someone that you feel that way about than someone who has CBT training vs. ACT vs. any other random trainings or certifications.  I mean, licensing, of course, but my experience tells me that, while type of therapy can make a difference, the biggest difference will be the person and that ephemeral "click" with them. 

When I researched her at the beginning, I saw she also listed herself as a life coach on her website, which I guess I've always kept in mind and which came in handy now.  But this leads me to believe that you can maybe do the same sort of research - look for people covered by your insurance then look at their websites and see if they offer coaching as well as counseling.

Smokystache

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Re: Therapist vs life coach?
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2018, 06:24:48 PM »
You can do both at once.  Some licensed therapists also do coaching work.  I happened to find my current coach when I was more in need of her therapy services.  I'm going back now for coaching on prepping for RE! ...

Psychologist here. +1 to sui generis comments.

If you're near a sizeable community, you've probably got mental health professionals (MSW/LSCW, LPC/Counselors, LP/Psychologists) who have also gotten a certification in life coaching to expand their practice and/or they simply like working with positive development more. I'm fine with life coaches as long as they stay out of working with depression, anxiety, etc .... but I've seen far too many get pretty cocky about suggesting that a weekend or 4-13 week training is the equivalent of a masters or PhD.

SunnyDays

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Re: Therapist vs life coach?
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2018, 10:08:52 PM »
I agree with Smokeystache.  I'm a retired Psychologist.  Make sure you check into credentials, as in my part of the world, anyone can call themselves a therapist or counselor, but can have little actual appropriate education.  You mention a concern about how your past experiences affect your decisions - if you have had any kind of trauma or mental health issues, certainly look for a psychologist or equivalent.  You don't want someone who will do more damage out of lack of knowledge/experience.  However. if your past contains no serious issues, and you just want to improve your life, then a life coach may be fine.

joonifloofeefloo

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Re: Therapist vs life coach?
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2018, 11:22:00 PM »
I’ve had many of my best results with support persons who did not have a high level of credentials. I wouldn’t expect better results from someone just on the basis of more education, etc. Some of those individuals are very silly indeed :)    A good fit and great results can happen with someone with less education, certification, and even experience. Checking consumer recommendations and shopping around is the better way to go, IME.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: Therapist vs life coach?
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2018, 04:28:36 AM »
Let me see if I can help you: therapist work with people in unhealthy mental states to become mentally healthy; life coaches help mentally healthy people attain goals and experience greater levels of success. If you have mental health issues that need addressed, seek a therapist as it is usually advisable to address these first. If you feel healthy but need to address blocks to goal attainment, both can assist. Coaches adopt a more solution focused approach. It may not be necessary to delve into your past. You can also engage both separately. Good luck.

firelight

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Re: Therapist vs life coach?
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2018, 07:50:38 AM »
Thank you so much. From all what you've said, I think I should look for a therapist that does life coaching too. While none of my childhood issues are major (no trauma or abuse), they have certainly shaped who I am (eldest kid with a ton of responsibilities and expectations which continue even today) and affect my decisions a lot. I do think a therapist will help separate them and that should help me make my own decisions without fear. A life coach might come later but I need to sort through some baggage before I can use the life coach effectively.

I see some therapists offer video sessions. Are they as effective? Also if you know of a great therapist in northern California, please pm me their info.

Dr.Optimus

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Re: Therapist vs life coach?
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2018, 08:59:38 AM »
Thank you so much. From all what you've said, I think I should look for a therapist that does life coaching too. While none of my childhood issues are major (no trauma or abuse), they have certainly shaped who I am (eldest kid with a ton of responsibilities and expectations which continue even today) and affect my decisions a lot. I do think a therapist will help separate them and that should help me make my own decisions without fear. A life coach might come later but I need to sort through some baggage before I can use the life coach effectively.

I see some therapists offer video sessions. Are they as effective? Also if you know of a great therapist in northern California, please pm me their info.
As a current Psychologist, I think you are going in a good direction with your thinking.  Tele-health is becoming increasingly popular, especially for rural areas due to sparsity of services available.  Really, it can be just as good as finding a local counselor, possibly better because you can expand your search and find someone who might be further away that is a better match for you, possibly out of state (just be sure they are approved by your insurance, unless you're paying out of pocket).  Most talk-therapy and CBT type approaches don't always require you to be in the physical presence of the therapist, so Tele-health could be an excellent option.  The downside, however, is that you may feel more distance and less connection due to that lack of physical proximity, which some people prefer, but this is really dependent on the individual and their needs.  Again, you could always try it and see if it fits for you and your circumstances, and cancel service if it doesn't meet your needs.

mozar

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Re: Therapist vs life coach?
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2018, 11:14:18 AM »
With my insurance  (Kaiser ), all of the therapists do video but your first appointment has to be in person.

ETBen

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Re: Therapist vs life coach?
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2018, 07:52:41 PM »
A good friend of mine is a coach and actually trained with several therapists.

- The trap with therapy is you can find one who spends most of the time talking about your past. That’s limiting.

- CBT as others mentioned is good at helping you change your thought processes.

- and then a coach is that next step to propel you forward. They should not be giving you a plan and advice. Their role is to help you figure out your plan and be accountable. A lot of people consider themselves life coaches bc they want to be a guru of certain ideals. Coaching is really to facilitate you developing your way. And it’s very beneficial. Having done CBT helps you be more effective at it.

civil4life

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Re: Therapist vs life coach?
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2018, 01:40:05 PM »
I have worked with both.  I can recommend a couple life coaches that do it by phone or video chat.

For me my therapy has focused more on past and how those actions impact my current actions and how I can heal that past so I can act differently now for my future.

Life coaches typically focus on the present and usually a specific problem.  In my case I hired one to help me pass my licensing exam.  I basically needed the accountability.  Life coach is better if you may be considering a big future change.

If you go with life coach they are accredited by the International Coaching Federation.

joonifloofeefloo

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Re: Therapist vs life coach?
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2018, 04:12:32 PM »
Life coaches typically focus on the present and usually a specific problem.

All my therapists have primarily done this -while the two coaches I tried focused on their imaginations ;)

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Therapist vs life coach?
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2018, 02:30:01 AM »
Not knowing what direction to take in life isn't a mental health issue. That's NORMAL. Everyone experiences it. You can get all the advice you like about it from 10,000 different blogs. Anxiety is also normal, unless it's impacting your ability to live your life. Like not being able to leave the house without touching each doorknob exactly 27 times and suchlike. Have yourself a think - do you need to spend money on this issue with a professional, or do you just need to sit down and do a bit of research online?


firelight

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Re: Therapist vs life coach?
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2018, 06:14:41 PM »
Not knowing what direction to take in life isn't a mental health issue. That's NORMAL. Everyone experiences it. You can get all the advice you like about it from 10,000 different blogs. Anxiety is also normal, unless it's impacting your ability to live your life. Like not being able to leave the house without touching each doorknob exactly 27 times and suchlike. Have yourself a think - do you need to spend money on this issue with a professional, or do you just need to sit down and do a bit of research online?
Thanks for this question. This is exactly the question I've been asking myself for the past ten years and the reason I haven't used a therapist or life coach yet. Not only have I read/researched a lot but also spoken to friends and family a lot. While all of it has been useful to an extent, I'm not sure I've gotten back enough for the amount of work I've put in (ymmv). I feel if I had used a therapist/life coach when I was fresh out of college (ten years back), my life would've been better and richer(in terms of satisfaction). While the research and talking to friends has helped, I don't want to go that route for another ten years and feel I missed out yet again. I'm 30 now and don't want to feel I wasted the next decade too. I don't see the money I'll be spending as a waste, rather I see it as an investment into myself (which I can gladly do without making a dent in my networth).


AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Therapist vs life coach?
« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2018, 08:29:55 PM »
I'm 46 years old. I still have no idea what I'm doing. But you know what? I've done loads of things, I have all sorts of experiences, and I will do loads more things in the next few decades. What I've learned is that a career is not a straight road. It's windy, there are potholes and mountains, and even the straight bits don't lead where you think they will. So.... take risks, roll with punches and assimilate changes, and don't ever tolerate crappy situations. And don't spend your money on people who can't give you answers!

MoStache

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Re: Therapist vs life coach?
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2018, 08:34:06 PM »
I've never met someone who had a life coach or a therapist they thought was good and still claimed it was a waste of money.  I've run into 100's of people who are either too scared to do therapy or didn't keep pushing to find the right therapist.  YMMV

Case

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Re: Therapist vs life coach?
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2018, 09:30:11 AM »
Not knowing what direction to take in life isn't a mental health issue. That's NORMAL. Everyone experiences it. You can get all the advice you like about it from 10,000 different blogs. Anxiety is also normal, unless it's impacting your ability to live your life. Like not being able to leave the house without touching each doorknob exactly 27 times and suchlike. Have yourself a think - do you need to spend money on this issue with a professional, or do you just need to sit down and do a bit of research online?

The term ‘normal’ is irrrelevant to this conversation, imho.  What is normal doesnt matter.  Your assumption is that normal = healthy, and that spending money on it is not worth it, if you are normal.  But, this may not be the case.

Despite milennia of advancement, especially since the industrial revolution, mankind’s mental health is still a greatly negelected area.  The United States offers unbelievable opportunity for most people, more than enough to get the components necessary to form a happy wife, one might think.  Yet depression, anxiety, and such are common ailments, perhaps ‘normal’.  If being happy (or eliminating depression/anxiety/etc) was as simple as reading internet guides, then one might expect these problems to be less common.  The reality is that there are situations where professional help does help.  There are also situations where it doesn’t help, or the therapist sucks, or the theRapy wAs the wrong type.  Throw in the monetary costs of therapy, and how that impacts livelihood and FIRE.

Most ‘normal’ (people not severly handicapped by depression/anxiety/etc) people, i would guess, aren’t diligent enough or savy enough to efficiently figure out these things.  This, in theory, would be where therapists should be able to help.

I guess what I’m saying is that there is definitely a legit problem out there, even if it's a first world problem.  I dont know if therapy on the whole is a effective solution (success seems to be very hit or miss)... but a solution is needed, and it would be worth spending money on.

civil4life

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Re: Therapist vs life coach?
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2018, 10:48:09 AM »
Thanks for this question. This is exactly the question I've been asking myself for the past ten years and the reason I haven't used a therapist or life coach yet. Not only have I read/researched a lot but also spoken to friends and family a lot. While all of it has been useful to an extent, I'm not sure I've gotten back enough for the amount of work I've put in (ymmv). I feel if I had used a therapist/life coach when I was fresh out of college (ten years back), my life would've been better and richer(in terms of satisfaction). While the research and talking to friends has helped, I don't want to go that route for another ten years and feel I missed out yet again. I'm 30 now and don't want to feel I wasted the next decade too. I don't see the money I'll be spending as a waste, rather I see it as an investment into myself (which I can gladly do without making a dent in my networth).
[/quote]

The names I gave you are both certified coaches and therapists.  Either could probably talk to you and discuss which might be best for you once they know a bit more about you.  The thing about therapy is that it can incorporate both therapy and coaching.  Another thing is that therapy has a chance of being covered by insurance if that is an option for you. 

Either case I think the brute force method of self help has not worked and professional assistance at this point is not going to hurt.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Therapist vs life coach?
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2018, 03:36:33 PM »
Not knowing what direction to take in life isn't a mental health issue. That's NORMAL. Everyone experiences it. You can get all the advice you like about it from 10,000 different blogs. Anxiety is also normal, unless it's impacting your ability to live your life. Like not being able to leave the house without touching each doorknob exactly 27 times and suchlike. Have yourself a think - do you need to spend money on this issue with a professional, or do you just need to sit down and do a bit of research online?

The term ‘normal’ is irrrelevant to this conversation, imho.  What is normal doesnt matter.  Your assumption is that normal = healthy, and that spending money on it is not worth it, if you are normal.  But, this may not be the case.

Despite milennia of advancement, especially since the industrial revolution, mankind’s mental health is still a greatly negelected area.  The United States offers unbelievable opportunity for most people, more than enough to get the components necessary to form a happy wife, one might think.  Yet depression, anxiety, and such are common ailments, perhaps ‘normal’.  If being happy (or eliminating depression/anxiety/etc) was as simple as reading internet guides, then one might expect these problems to be less common.  The reality is that there are situations where professional help does help.  There are also situations where it doesn’t help, or the therapist sucks, or the theRapy wAs the wrong type.  Throw in the monetary costs of therapy, and how that impacts livelihood and FIRE.

Most ‘normal’ (people not severly handicapped by depression/anxiety/etc) people, i would guess, aren’t diligent enough or savy enough to efficiently figure out these things.  This, in theory, would be where therapists should be able to help.

I guess what I’m saying is that there is definitely a legit problem out there, even if it's a first world problem.  I dont know if therapy on the whole is a effective solution (success seems to be very hit or miss)... but a solution is needed, and it would be worth spending money on.

Actually, I said normal because most people think they're the only one suffering from these issues! That's just not true.  We only see other people' polished public personas. Behind the scenes, I think most of us have no clue what we're doing most days! I think, also, that late 20s/early 30s is a time when you're "supposed" to have your shit together, and so it's also a time of questioning yourself. It wasn't an enjoyable time for me.

I don't think therapy is the answer to this, generally speaking. I think the answer is accepting that life is a weird random game with rules we don't understand. You just do what makes you happy and try to enjoy the ride. There's no right way of doing life. There seem to be plenty of wrong ways, but the OP hasn't mentioned an addiction problem or something of that nature.

MoStache

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Re: Therapist vs life coach?
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2018, 10:14:41 PM »
I think, also, that late 20s/early 30s is a time when you're "supposed" to have your shit together, and so it's also a time of questioning yourself. It wasn't an enjoyable time for me.

Did you work with a therapist you thought was super smart and understood you during this time?  That's exactly the kind of thing a good therapist will help you with. 

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Therapist vs life coach?
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2018, 11:30:26 PM »
I think, also, that late 20s/early 30s is a time when you're "supposed" to have your shit together, and so it's also a time of questioning yourself. It wasn't an enjoyable time for me.

Did you work with a therapist you thought was super smart and understood you during this time?  That's exactly the kind of thing a good therapist will help you with.

I live in NZ. Therapy isn't the kind of hobby/whatever it is in the states. We obviously have psychologists. You go to a psychologist if you have had something serious, major depression or PTSD, something of that nature. They're $100 an hour plus. We also have psychiatrists, who can dispense medications. A psychiatrist might be $400 plus. We don't do medical insurance. Instead we have a public scheme that's incredibly good. What you call therapy we might call counselling. They talk about your feelings and shit. Most kiwis would never have been to a counsellor, or even thought about it. Unless something major happened and they were having trouble processing it - like the quakes that flattened my city a few years ago. Even so, most kiwis would never go to a counsellor. Kiwis would talk to their mates, get drunk and all weepy, something like that. It's be a pretty self indulgent sort of kiwi who went to a counsellor, also upwards of $100 an hour, because they felt a bit shit. Life's a bit shit, innit, get the fuck on with it. Hate your job? Quit. Hate your wife? Divorce. We're good at practical, not feeeeeeeeelings. I'd be willing to bet that most of the kiwis in regular counselling are court ordered, and still consider it a waste of time.

Case

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Re: Therapist vs life coach?
« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2018, 09:09:18 AM »
I think, also, that late 20s/early 30s is a time when you're "supposed" to have your shit together, and so it's also a time of questioning yourself. It wasn't an enjoyable time for me.

Did you work with a therapist you thought was super smart and understood you during this time?  That's exactly the kind of thing a good therapist will help you with.

I see your point on ther term ‘normal’, thanks for clarifying.
Knowing that you are from NZ might explain somethings, and I don’t mean that negatively.  My impression is that NZ has a less stressful culture than in the US, with stronger communities and social support.  Perhaps improved social teachings at early ages on how to live happily.

Just because it is that way in NZ, does not mean that way of life can effectively be taught to the US from internet reads.  People have often tried to ‘toughen up’ already, or to chill out, or to take life as it comes, etc.  Sometimes outside help is needed (though i wont claim that common American therapists are an effectivesolution, just that self help often doesnt seem to work well).



I live in NZ. Therapy isn't the kind of hobby/whatever it is in the states. We obviously have psychologists. You go to a psychologist if you have had something serious, major depression or PTSD, something of that nature. They're $100 an hour plus. We also have psychiatrists, who can dispense medications. A psychiatrist might be $400 plus. We don't do medical insurance. Instead we have a public scheme that's incredibly good. What you call therapy we might call counselling. They talk about your feelings and shit. Most kiwis would never have been to a counsellor, or even thought about it. Unless something major happened and they were having trouble processing it - like the quakes that flattened my city a few years ago. Even so, most kiwis would never go to a counsellor. Kiwis would talk to their mates, get drunk and all weepy, something like that. It's be a pretty self indulgent sort of kiwi who went to a counsellor, also upwards of $100 an hour, because they felt a bit shit. Life's a bit shit, innit, get the fuck on with it. Hate your job? Quit. Hate your wife? Divorce. We're good at practical, not feeeeeeeeelings. I'd be willing to bet that most of the kiwis in regular counselling are court ordered, and still consider it a waste of time.

civil4life

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Re: Therapist vs life coach?
« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2018, 05:40:13 PM »
In the US there a ton of different credentials for therapists/counselors/psychologist.  The term counselor usually is related to someone that is not credentialed.

Most therapists are licensed which usually requires a Masters degree and a ton of on the job training.

A psychologist is typically a PhD in talk therapy.

Then there is the psychiatrist which is an MD that does medication management.  Some psychiatrists do offer talk therapy too.

In some states Nurse Practitioners or Physician Assistant are able to do medication management.  Their schooling is a little less than an MD but more than a Masters. 

Depending the part of the country most therapy costs between $100 and $200.  That same charge would be for a 20 min. medication management with the MD

Reynolds531

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Re: Therapist vs life coach?
« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2018, 06:13:45 PM »
I've been meaning to do this.

https://selfauthoring.com

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Therapist vs life coach?
« Reply #30 on: May 14, 2018, 12:04:51 AM »
I think, also, that late 20s/early 30s is a time when you're "supposed" to have your shit together, and so it's also a time of questioning yourself. It wasn't an enjoyable time for me.

Did you work with a therapist you thought was super smart and understood you during this time?  That's exactly the kind of thing a good therapist will help you with.

I see your point on ther term ‘normal’, thanks for clarifying.
Knowing that you are from NZ might explain somethings, and I don’t mean that negatively.  My impression is that NZ has a less stressful culture than in the US, with stronger communities and social support.  Perhaps improved social teachings at early ages on how to live happily.

Just because it is that way in NZ, does not mean that way of life can effectively be taught to the US from internet reads.  People have often tried to ‘toughen up’ already, or to chill out, or to take life as it comes, etc.  Sometimes outside help is needed (though i wont claim that common American therapists are an effectivesolution, just that self help often doesnt seem to work well).



I live in NZ. Therapy isn't the kind of hobby/whatever it is in the states. We obviously have psychologists. You go to a psychologist if you have had something serious, major depression or PTSD, something of that nature. They're $100 an hour plus. We also have psychiatrists, who can dispense medications. A psychiatrist might be $400 plus. We don't do medical insurance. Instead we have a public scheme that's incredibly good. What you call therapy we might call counselling. They talk about your feelings and shit. Most kiwis would never have been to a counsellor, or even thought about it. Unless something major happened and they were having trouble processing it - like the quakes that flattened my city a few years ago. Even so, most kiwis would never go to a counsellor. Kiwis would talk to their mates, get drunk and all weepy, something like that. It's be a pretty self indulgent sort of kiwi who went to a counsellor, also upwards of $100 an hour, because they felt a bit shit. Life's a bit shit, innit, get the fuck on with it. Hate your job? Quit. Hate your wife? Divorce. We're good at practical, not feeeeeeeeelings. I'd be willing to bet that most of the kiwis in regular counselling are court ordered, and still consider it a waste of time.

Hey, I never said kiwis were emotionally healthy! We have a very high suicide rate. Our lifestyle is far less about keeping up with the Joneses and generally comparing yourself to others than the US lifestyle appears to be. It's easy to be a rule breaker here. We have this thing we call a number 8 wire mentality. Number 8 wire is farm fencing wire, and back in the day you'd make whatever you needed out of it. So we number 8 wire things and situations - ie get creative and make it work. Depressed and anxious folk here are WAAAY more likely to make it work with an antidepressant tablet than therapy. I mean, why spend time and money figuring out why when you can pop a pill? That'll cost you $3 for 6 month supply on our system. We're also frickin cheap as a culture.

civil4life

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Re: Therapist vs life coach?
« Reply #31 on: May 14, 2018, 08:59:37 AM »
The US continues to ignore the impact of mental health on its people.  Full time work in the US is typically 40 hours +, 5 days a week.  Holidays, Vacation, and Sick Leave are not a guarantee.  Even in small situations maternity leave could leave you jobless.  There are about 10 major holidays that the US celebrates and a large number of employees may get off. 

Beyond the lack of time for a personal life there is the stress of our jobs.  Work is sometimes a 24/7 requirement for some.  Others there is just not enough hours in a day to cover the work they are responsible for. 

We are raised to believe if we work hard we will have the American Dream. 

American's are physically and emotionally distant and relationships tend to be distant in nature.

All of these things breed mental illness. I personally believe that mental illness is part genetic and part environmental.  Some people are predisposed to mental illness.  However, whether they actually have a mental illness is significantly impacted by the environment someone is in.  I think that for people that develop mental illness even in a healthy environment probably are more likely to have success with medication alone.  Those with bad environment are going to need more help to improve their mental illness. 

Additionally, there is still significant stigma related to mental illness treatment is usually delayed or not at all. 

The impact of mental illness in the US is horrible.

From National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI) https://www.nami.org/learn-more/mental-health-by-the-numbers

Prevalence Of Mental Illness
  • Approximately 1 in 5 adults in the U.S.—43.8 million, or 18.5%—experiences mental illness in a given year.1
    Approximately 1 in 25 adults in the U.S.—9.8 million, or 4.0%—experiences a serious mental illness in a given year that substantially interferes with or limits one or more major life activities.2
    Approximately 1 in 5 youth aged 13–18 (21.4%) experiences a severe mental disorder at some point during their life. For children aged 8–15, the estimate is 13%.3
    1.1% of adults in the U.S. live with schizophrenia.4
    2.6% of adults in the U.S. live with bipolar disorder.5
    6.9% of adults in the U.S.—16 million—had at least one major depressive episode in the past year.6
    18.1% of adults in the U.S. experienced an anxiety disorder such as posttraumatic stress disorder, obsessive-compulsive disorder and specific phobias.7
    Among the 20.2 million adults in the U.S. who experienced a substance use disorder, 50.5%—10.2 million adults—had a co-occurring mental illness.8

Social Stats
  • An estimated 26% of homeless adults staying in shelters live with serious mental illness and an estimated 46% live with severe mental illness and/or substance use disorders.9
    Approximately 20% of state prisoners and 21% of local jail prisoners have “a recent history” of a mental health condition.10
    70% of youth in juvenile justice systems have at least one mental health condition and at least 20% live with a serious mental illness.11
    Only 41% of adults in the U.S. with a mental health condition received mental health services in the past year. Among adults with a serious mental illness, 62.9% received mental health services in the past year.8
    Just over half (50.6%) of children aged 8-15 received mental health services in the previous year.12
    African Americans and Hispanic Americans each use mental health services at about one-half the rate of Caucasian Americans and Asian Americans at about one-third the rate.13
    Half of all chronic mental illness begins by age 14; three-quarters by age 24. Despite effective treatment, there are long delays—sometimes decades—between the first appearance of symptoms and when people get help.14

Consequences Of Lack Of Treatment
  • Serious mental illness costs America $193.2 billion in lost earnings per year.15
    Mood disorders, including major depression, dysthymic disorder and bipolar disorder, are the third most common cause of hospitalization in the U.S. for both youth and adults aged 18–44.16
    Individuals living with serious mental illness face an increased risk of having chronic medical conditions.17 Adults in the U.S. living with serious mental illness die on average 25 years earlier than others, largely due to treatable medical conditions.18
    Over one-third (37%) of students with a mental health condition age 14­–21 and older who are served by special education drop out—the highest dropout rate of any disability group.19
    Suicide is the 10th leading cause of death in the U.S.,20 the 3rd leading cause of death for people aged 10–14.21 and the 2nd leading cause of death for people aged 15–24.22
    More than 90% of children who die by suicide have a mental health condition.23
    Each day an estimated 18-22 veterans die by suicide.24