The return of credit card fees or "cash discounts" in prices?

[SmashYourSmartPhone]

I have started seeing lately, in smaller town areas, the return of what I would call "credit card fee passthrough."  For a while, it seemed that nobody would offer separate cash and card prices, even as the credit card companies pull 3% from each transaction.

Now, though, I have been to multiple places (restaurants, and seen other signs for stores/services) with separate cash or card prices, with the expected 3% discount for cash.

Of course, I pay cash generally, so this is to my advantage, but I am curious: Are other seeing this too, and if so, are you returning to cash to pay for things at a discount?

[therethere]

My state passed a law last year or the year before allowing a 3% pass through charge for credit. I'd say it's about 50/50 in places requiring the upcharge. Mainly anything that isn't a chain will charge the 3%, including stuff like mechanics.

I'm usually churning credit cards so my regular spend is typically earning 10-20%. If I'm in between cards, my highest card returns 4.5% for tap to pay and the 2nd highest is 2.25%. That plus credit card warranty extensions makes it so there is so there is little to no benefit to paying in cash.

[Nutty]

I usually ask for a cash discount.   Doctors, Dentists and Hospitals are more than happy to offer cash discount.  The dentist last week gave a 5% for cash up front.  We will see how much the insurance covers.  Wish us luck!

Pawn shops, smaller thrift stores and garage sells prove everything is negotiable. 

Set your price.  Give them an option to meet or exceed it and be prepared to walk.  Yes, I'll walk away from a purchase for $10.  But don't waste their time if you are too far away on prices.  They have to make a profit.  Just not off me.  If it is there in a month or the end of the month when property taxes come due, they are more motivated.  Just like car dealers.

[maizefolk]

I'm seeing it a lot, typically from small locally owned businesses. For big ticket stuff I understand why it makes sense, but for a cup of coffee I've wondered if the extra 3% is worth the extra employee time and hassle that goes into making and handling change.

[bacchi]

I'm actually seeing more and more cashless stores and restaurants. I wish cash discounts were more popular because my parents give me cash in my birthday and holiday cards.

[SmashYourSmartPhone]

My state passed a law last year or the year before allowing a 3% pass through charge for credit.

Do you have a link to it?  I was of the impression that credit card vendor agreements had generally prohibited this, but they can't violate state law.

... but for a cup of coffee I've wondered if the extra 3% is worth the extra employee time and hassle that goes into making and handling change.

It depends substantially on the employee.  I've seen many cashiers handle cash "natively," and I've had some that are just beyond baffled by the process.  The later are not helped by my habit of "making change easy" - if a bill is $6.76, I'll do something like $11.01 in cash.

I'm actually seeing more and more cashless stores and restaurants. I wish cash discounts were more popular because my parents give me cash in my birthday and holiday cards.

I can't imagine a cashless restaurant.  Is that even legal?  I suppose if you pay before receiving food it is, but the markings on cash about "legal tender for all debts public and private" mean a restaurant in which you eat before receiving the bill cannot reject cash to pay it.

[use2betrix]

I’ve noticed many more gas stations offering different prices for cash/credit. I’ve noticed more in the last couple years, not sure how long it’s been advertised, however.

I’ve noticed it at general retail and other services. I assumed it’s a rather subtle way to catch up with inflation by not directly raising prices - moreso reducing their expenses.

I would assume the 3% business paid before was a tax write off as an operating expense, no? If so, I’d also assume if they start charging 3% more, they might lose the ability to write that off? I’m far from a tax expert, though.

[seattlecyclone]

Here in the Seattle area certain gas stations have offered lower cash prices for as long as I can remember. It tends to be about 10¢/gallon difference, which is close enough to the value of the kickback I get from the credit card company that it's definitely not worth my time to walk into the building to pay in cash, guessing how much fuel I'll need, risking the need to walk back into the building to get change and/or underfill the tank.

I definitely haven't noticed any increase in the number of places offering cash discounts, and in fact have seen more businesses moving in the direction of requiring cards.

[Dancin'Dog]

But, How am I supposed to build my air miles?   The world owes me free travel!

[bacchi]

I'm actually seeing more and more cashless stores and restaurants. I wish cash discounts were more popular because my parents give me cash in my birthday and holiday cards.

I can't imagine a cashless restaurant.  Is that even legal?  I suppose if you pay before receiving food it is, but the markings on cash about "legal tender for all debts public and private" mean a restaurant in which you eat before receiving the bill cannot reject cash to pay it.

I'm not certain that it is illegal. Airlines have been cards only for years, and occasionally someone makes a racket while flying, but nothing comes of it.

[seattlecyclone]

I'm actually seeing more and more cashless stores and restaurants. I wish cash discounts were more popular because my parents give me cash in my birthday and holiday cards.

I can't imagine a cashless restaurant.  Is that even legal?  I suppose if you pay before receiving food it is, but the markings on cash about "legal tender for all debts public and private" mean a restaurant in which you eat before receiving the bill cannot reject cash to pay it.

I'm not certain that it is illegal. Airlines have been cards only for years, and occasionally someone makes a racket while flying, but nothing comes of it.

I believe there may be some distinction when a "debt" exists.

You can walk into a store, tell the employee you want to trade a piece of paper with a picture of Ben Franklin on it for $100 worth of goods, and they can reject your offer if that's the policy the store has in place. You don't actually owe the store anything until they accept your offer to buy the goods, no debt exists, they can tell you to go away.

On the other hand if you sit down in a restaurant and consume $100 worth of food, now you have a debt you owe to the restaurant. If you offer that same piece of paper with the picture of Ben Franklin and the magical "legal tender" wording printed on there, the offer of said legal tender supposedly extinguishes the debt, and so they can either take your cash or let you go without paying. Whether someone who walks into a restaurant with a sign saying they don't accept cash, sits down to eat a meal, and proceeds to insist on paying cash is being a noble freedom fighter or a jerk is left as an exercise for the reader.

[Telecaster]

I can't imagine a cashless restaurant.  Is that even legal?  I suppose if you pay before receiving food it is, but the markings on cash about "legal tender for all debts public and private" mean a restaurant in which you eat before receiving the bill cannot reject cash to pay it.

What that actually means is that US vouches the currency is worth the amount it claims it is.   Merchants don't have to accept cash (more on that below) and increasingly they don't.   I've seen a sea change at farmers markets where a few years ago the majority didn't accept cards, now the majority doesn't accept cash.   

This is causing a problem for the unbanked population because it is simply becoming hard to buy stuff with cash.   For that reason some cities have mandated that certain merchants accept cash payments.   

[bacchi]

What that actually means is that US vouches the currency is worth the amount it claims it is.   Merchants don't have to accept cash (more on that below) and increasingly they don't. 

Yep.

Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether to accept cash unless there is a state law that says otherwise.

[Car Jack]

Around me, there are gas stations with either different cash and credit prices posted or only accept cash.  The varying cash and credit stations tend to be completely overpriced either way, so I won't go there.  The cash only are off brand and look like they're skirting taxes which cash helps them with. 

A few diner type restaurants and a couple fish places only take cash.

One pizza place charges something like 55 cents for you to use credit.  Since my credit card gives me 5% on restaurant purchases, it's cheaper for me to pay the 55 cents and use my credit card.

I wouldn't say that any of these places are "lately".  Thinking about them, they all had their policy ten years ago.

I can get by with $20 in my pocket for months unless we're heading to one of the fish places or a diner.  This is nothing new.  And not just a US thing.  I used to cover Canada for my work 20 years ago.  I took out Canadian money at first, thinking I'd need it.  I realized I had spent none in my first couple months so used most of it to pay my hotel bill one trip, keeping $20 Canadian.  I still have that $20 Canadian.  Cash is a 70's thing and even in the 80's, when the Discover card came out, being the first one I ever heard of that would give cash back, I got one.  I get many thousands of dollars in card cash back these days.  I especially like my Citi Sears card that goes on 10% splurges for months at a time, usually at restaurants, gas, grocery which is about 90% of my spending.

[spartana]

Adding a CC fee (via a higher price)  has been very common with gas stations ever since I can remember. Now I'm starting to see it in other places like smaller stores and venues but my former city community rec centers started adding on a fee of 4% if you pay for classes or city events by CC. I don't know what other forms of payment they accept - cash? Debit card? Check? Money order? Online/pay pal? All seem pretty difficult if you're signing up for an expensive class online. I have also seen "cashless" places that only accept CCs too but I think they were recently banned (CA). Some self checkout places only take CCs (Target, Aldi) but have regular cashiers if you use cash. Also, if you ever want to buy a car from a dealer using your CC they tack on a 4% fee.

[SmashYourSmartPhone]

Around me, there are gas stations with either different cash and credit prices posted or only accept cash.  The varying cash and credit stations tend to be completely overpriced either way, so I won't go there.  The cash only are off brand and look like they're skirting taxes which cash helps them with.

What does it "look like" to be "skirting taxes" from the roadside, exactly?  If you believe they're doing so, it would be worth mentioning to your local tax authorities.

Another benefit of cash is providing less of a data trail for later mining.  The government trolling through transactions for who has purchased goods at sporting goods stores or firearms stores doesn't sit very well with me: https://judiciary.house.gov/media/press-releases/federal-government-flagged-transactions-using-terms-maga-and-trump-financial

[Telecaster]

I wouldn't say that any of these places are "lately".  Thinking about them, they all had their policy ten years ago.

Some places have been doing that for ages.   If anything though, that's kind of dying out.   Even though credit transactions are expensive, handling cash can be even more expensive.   That's why we're seeing smaller places especially going to card only.   It is cheaper for them than handling cash. 

[plog]

What that actually means is that US vouches the currency is worth the amount it claims it is.

No what it actually means is what it says:  "This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private'

A lot of people gloss over the word 'debts'.  Me owing you for a sandwich I have consumed and me wanting to purchase a sandwich are two different things.  The first involves a debt which legally must be settled for cash if the debtor insists, the second is in the negotiation stage of a deal.  The timing of the deal is very important.  Payment before goods/service never involves debt, goods/services before payment does.

It depends substantially on the employee.  I've seen many cashiers handle cash "natively," and I've had some that are just beyond baffled by the process.  The later are not helped by my habit of "making change easy" - if a bill is $6.76, I'll do something like $11.01 in cash.

 For any other reason I am super impatient and annoyed at having to waste my time to pay for something.  But the longer I have to wait for a cashier to figure out that 2nd grade math problem the more I enjoy it.  The best part is registers now are touch screens where all they have to do is hit the $10 button, the $1 button, the $.01 button and the screen literally gives them a picture of what they need to return to the customer--no thought, much less math needed.   

[SmashYourSmartPhone]

For any other reason I am super impatient and annoyed at having to waste my time to pay for something.

I've returned to trying to start conversations with people in line.  Sometimes it works!  Otherwise it's time to be bored and ponder things.  Our brains need that.  Not carrying an idle-time-filler has been good for retraining myself in these days.

I've not seen the Fisher Price type cash register displays, though I've not looked closely.  I suppose I shall!

[Telecaster]

What that actually means is that US vouches the currency is worth the amount it claims it is.

No what it actually means is what it says:  "This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private'

A lot of people gloss over the word 'debts'.  Me owing you for a sandwich I have consumed and me wanting to purchase a sandwich are two different things.  The first involves a debt which legally must be settled for cash if the debtor insists, the second is in the negotiation stage of a deal.  The timing of the deal is very important.  Payment before goods/service never involves debt, goods/services before payment does.

The timing of the deal has nothing to do with anything. 

I agree it means what it says.   But it doesn't say what you think it says.   The part you are missing is "legal tender."     Legal tender is money issued and recognized by the government, right?   So what that phase is really saying is that this specific note is money issued and recognized by the government, no matter who the payment is to, and no matter who it is from.    This note is legal tender all the time, all of the place, as far as the government is concerned.   

But what it doesn't say on there, is you that you are required to accept payments in legal tender.    And you aren't, except for some specific cases.   Otherwise you can accept payments in any form you want.  Baseball cards, rare orchids, Bitcoin, doesn't matter.   The federal government can't force you to accept legal tender if you don't want to, which means they can't force you to accept cash.   If you haven't yet, scroll up and read @bacchi 's quote from the Federal Reserve, they say straight up private entities can do what they want. 

[trollwithamustache]

return of Cash discounts? They never really left, lots of places, especially small business are often open to cash discounts. The bigger the purchase the more room you have to ask the clerk/salesperson about it.

[Telecaster]

And negotiation in general.   The price of a lot of stuff is negotiable.   Even stuff like refrigerators.  No doubt about it, cash talks.     One cash discount that has kind of gone away is musical instruments.   Used to be a substantial discount for cash, and all the prices were always assumed to be negotiable.  Stereo equipment too.  That has gone away as Wharton MBAs have taken over the world.   

[nereo]

Thought this was obvious but based on the responses maybe not…

The incentive for gas stations to offer cash discounts isn’t to sidestep the credit transaction fee (the carrying costs of cash are typically much higher). It is to get people inside the store, where they make the overwhelming majority of their margin. If you buy $50 in gas and a $2.50 coffee the station makes more profit on the coffee.

Small business owners like cash because it gives them
Instant liquidity, and (sometimes) because cash makes it easy to skirt a wide variety of taxes. There’s a reason why the mafia favors small businesses with a high cash flow thru to launder money.

[lhamo]

There is an Indian grocery store I go to to get stuff like spices, frozen naan, etc.  A couple of years ago I had fraudulent charges show up on my card right after I swiped it there, so I try to remember to take cash.  But the last time I went in I forgot my purse at home.  Decided to go ahead and buy the package of naan with my card since I could tap instead of swipe (no idea if that is more secure, decided to try it out).  They told me there would be a surcharge but I said ok since I didn't have cash.  They charged me $.50 on a $4.50 purchase -- that's more than 11%!  But it was cheaper than buying naan at a restaurant, and I wasn't going to drive home to get my purse (store is about 5 miles from home). 

I didn't see any fraudulent charges later but I think I will still try to use cash at that place....

[spartana]

There is an Indian grocery store I go to to get stuff like spices, frozen naan, etc.  A couple of years ago I had fraudulent charges show up on my card right after I swiped it there, so I try to remember to take cash.  But the last time I went in I forgot my purse at home.  Decided to go ahead and buy the package of naan with my card since I could tap instead of swipe (no idea if that is more secure, decided to try it out).  They told me there would be a surcharge but I said ok since I didn't have cash.  They charged me $.50 on a $4.50 purchase -- that's more than 11%!  But it was cheaper than buying naan at a restaurant, and I wasn't going to drive home to get my purse (store is about 5 miles from home). 

I didn't see any fraudulent charges later but I think I will still try to use cash at that place....

I keep an emergency $20 next to my CC because I've been hit with CC fees a couple of times. I generally use cash for small purchases under $10 anyway (don't buy much in general big or small) so usually have a but of cash on me.

A couple of years ago a car local dealer (Dodge, Jeep, Chrysler, Ram) required cash buyers of any new or used cars to pay $1000 extra if you don't finance. It was crazy. I realize much of their mark up comes from dealer financing but $1000 extra fee if you pay cash?!

[Telecaster]

A couple of years ago a car local dealer (Dodge, Jeep, Chrysler, Ram) required cash buyers of any new or used cars to pay $1000 extra if you don't finance. It was crazy. I realize much of their mark up comes from dealer financing but $1000 extra fee if you pay cash?!

Reason number 1,000,006 why you should always negotiate the price first, the negotiate the financing.  Easier said than done, I know.   

[spartana]

A couple of years ago a car local dealer (Dodge, Jeep, Chrysler, Ram) required cash buyers of any new or used cars to pay $1000 extra if you don't finance. It was crazy. I realize much of their mark up comes from dealer financing but $1000 extra fee if you pay cash?!

Reason number 1,000,006 why you should always negotiate the price first, the negotiate the financing.  Easier said than done, I know.

it didn't seem to matter as they just tacked it on if you said you were paying cash even if all negotiations were complete.  Had it on their website pretty well bolded. Isn't there any longer so probably don't do that any more.

[spartana]

 "To make a City Payment:
Effective 07/01/2023 all credit card and debit card transactions will be subject to a service fee of 2.29%:

That's from my old hood in Huntington Beach CA. Guess it's common now when making payments to the city.

Also there a fee to pay your property taxes to the county using a CC or debit card. Its also 2.29%

I guess that means pay by check or maybe direct debit from your checking account so not really "cash".

[lhamo]

A couple of years ago a car local dealer (Dodge, Jeep, Chrysler, Ram) required cash buyers of any new or used cars to pay $1000 extra if you don't finance. It was crazy. I realize much of their mark up comes from dealer financing but $1000 extra fee if you pay cash?!

Reason number 1,000,006 why you should always negotiate the price first, the negotiate the financing.  Easier said than done, I know.

it didn't seem to matter as they just tacked it on if you said you were paying cash even if all negotiations were complete.  Had it on their website pretty well bolded. Isn't there any longer so probably don't do that any more.

I got something like $1-2k off the base price of my Ford C-Max in 2015 by agreeing to the dealer financing.  I confirmed up front that there was no penalty to me or them if I paid it off immediately.  I paid it off with the first payment -- paid something like $47 in interest.  Worthwhile trade in my book.  Having had a car loan also gives me a few extra points on my credit score, too!

[spartana]

A couple of years ago a car local dealer (Dodge, Jeep, Chrysler, Ram) required cash buyers of any new or used cars to pay $1000 extra if you don't finance. It was crazy. I realize much of their mark up comes from dealer financing but $1000 extra fee if you pay cash?!

Reason number 1,000,006 why you should always negotiate the price first, the negotiate the financing.  Easier said than done, I know.

it didn't seem to matter as they just tacked it on if you said you were paying cash even if all negotiations were complete.  Had it on their website pretty well bolded. Isn't there any longer so probably don't do that any more.

I got something like $1-2k off the base price of my Ford C-Max in 2015 by agreeing to the dealer financing.  I confirmed up front that there was no penalty to me or them if I paid it off immediately.  I paid it off with the first payment -- paid something like $47 in interest.  Worthwhile trade in my book.  Having had a car loan also gives me a few extra points on my credit score, too!

Yeah I've seen that before - finance with us and get the rebate - but usually when buying a new car.  But I've never seen a very blatant statement saying they would add on a $1000 fee for cash buyers no matter the price of the car. Buying that $2000 beater 1975 Yugo with 500k miles with cash? That's gonna cost you an extra $1000! They've removed that requirement to pay cash (or hid it better) but would have really hurt someone who was low or no income and couldn't qualify for a loan.

[Cranky]

Thought this was obvious but based on the responses maybe not…

The incentive for gas stations to offer cash discounts isn’t to sidestep the credit transaction fee (the carrying costs of cash are typically much higher). It is to get people inside the store, where they make the overwhelming majority of their margin. If you buy $50 in gas and a $2.50 coffee the station makes more profit on the coffee.

Small business owners like cash because it gives them
Instant liquidity, and (sometimes) because cash makes it easy to skirt a wide variety of taxes. There’s a reason why the mafia favors small businesses with a high cash flow thru to launder money.

Yeah, the gas station down the street is always way more expensive than any place else in the neighborhood but has a giant convenience store. We’ve realized that they don’t really care about selling gas, it’s just an excuse for the convenience store.

[roomtempmayo]

I'm seeing some of it from small local businesses in our city.

A friend of mine owns a bike shop that went fully cashless a couple years ago.  He hates the credit card fees, but it turns out cash isn't without its costs.  There's risk of theft from a safe on-site or getting mugged on your highly predictable trip to the bank after closing.  People bounce checks.  And there's the endless task of dealing with physical currency.

I get the feeling from him and other business owners that they like cards since they solve all of these problems, they just wish the fees were lower.

[nereo]

A friend of mine owns a bike shop that went fully cashless a couple years ago.  He hates the credit card fees, but it turns out cash isn't without its costs.  There's risk of theft from a safe on-site or getting mugged on your highly predictable trip to the bank after closing.  People bounce checks.  And there's the endless task of dealing with physical currency.

I get the feeling from him and other business owners that they like cards since they solve all of these problems, they just wish the fees were lower.

Credit cards routinely clock in as having the lowest carrying costs for the merchant.  Cash is among the highest, outdone only by personal cheques without using an instant automation. People tend to get more irritated by credit fees because they are so transparent - listed on each monthly statement and often many thousands of dollars for even small shops.  But that doesn't mean the (generally higher) costs of cash or accepting cheques aren't greater.

https://hbr.org/2014/06/the-hidden-costs-of-cash
https://www.plainscapital.com/blog/the-cost-of-accepting-cash/

[roomtempmayo]

It doesn't really surprise me that taking cards is cheaper than dealing with cash.

To be fair to the frustrated retailers, charging a 3-4% fee and kicking 2% of it back to the customer in rewards seems like a bit of a conjob, especially since they'll process debit cards for far less.

[SmashYourSmartPhone]

Buying that $2000 beater 1975 Yugo with 500k miles with cash? That's gonna cost you an extra $1000! They've removed that requirement to pay cash (or hid it better) but would have really hurt someone who was low or no income and couldn't qualify for a loan.

I'm sure that's intentional.

After all, how can you repo the car and sell the same car 4-5 times if they actually pay cash and own it?  That seems to be the business model of the "buy-here-pay-here-nobody-refused" car dealerships.  That they ship the cars with ignition cutoffs and cell modem based GPS trackers ("Behind on your payments?  Can't start the car!") just makes it easier than it used to be to screw over the poor.

[Telecaster]

It doesn't really surprise me that taking cards is cheaper than dealing with cash.

To be fair to the frustrated retailers, charging a 3-4% fee and kicking 2% of it back to the customer in rewards seems like a bit of a conjob, especially since they'll process debit cards for far less.

I can't figure out if it is a con job or not.   Most consumer finance is a con job, so that's my default assumption.   But merchants hate credit card fees with the heat of a thousand burning suns.   If somebody came along and said "I can process your payments for 1.25%" every single entity that takes credit cards would sign up over night.       

But if they share cashback with the customer, why wouldn't they do it with the merchant?  It seems like they could and then have cheaper processing right?   But there is this weird ecosystem of  points and rewards.   Delta's frequent flyer reward program is tied almost entirely to how much you use the Amex Delta card, and has very little to do with actually being a frequent flyer.   Which means Delta makes more money selling miles to Amex than it does by attracting frequent fliers.   You know.  The people buying the most airline tickets.   Delta doesn't really care about those customers.  Sure, they'll sell you a ticket if you are going that direction.  But Delta wants people who spend a lot of money on their Amex.    Delta attracts those new customers by giving them free flights on Delta.   That's kinda weird.  It seems like there has to be a con in there someplace.   

We have a place in Hawaii, and visit a number of times a year, thanks to essentially free flights.   But the economics seem very odd to me.   There is no way I spend enough to deserve free airplane flights.   Somebody is getting screwed, I just can't figure out who it is.   And yet, everyone seems fine with the arrangement.  Except for the merchants who are screaming bloody blue murder.   

[lhamo]

I should probably look into getting the Delta Amex again, in that case.  I used to rack up miles with 2-3 transpacific flights a year for family visits + work trips.  Don't do that kind of flying any more, but I do have house renovations to pay for.  So maybe if I can throw a bunch on the card I could take advantage of Delta's new focus on spenders rather than flyers.

[Alternatepriorities]

The later are not helped by my habit of "making change easy" - if a bill is $6.76, I'll do something like $11.01 in cash.

It's so nice to know I'm not the only one. You'd think I'd grown a second head with some of the reactions I've gotten over the years.


To the original question, I have only seen a few places offer discounts and usually it is not as valuable as my (admittedly above average) rewards. One place I did switch was on my cell phone bill. I take care of a family plan for 6 lines and they offered $10/line per month to do autopay... That was worth it, then a couple months ago they switched it to $5/line if you use a CC but kept it at $10 for a ACH or debit card... I switched it to debit. Kind of miss my 2% kickback. Another recent example is a membership fee that is again $5 off for debit, but this time the math is much closer and I am trying to get a bonus one one of the cards so I'm using it... New for 2024 you can earn some elite qualifying miles on AK Air with their card. I might not make MVP otherwise (adopted a baby) I think it's worth playing the game a bit. I've been averaging well over $1000 in free ticket upgrades a year since getting MVP.

[seattlecyclone]

The later are not helped by my habit of "making change easy" - if a bill is $6.76, I'll do something like $11.01 in cash.

It's so nice to know I'm not the only one. You'd think I'd grown a second head with some of the reactions I've gotten over the years.


To the original question, I have only seen a few places offer discounts and usually it is not as valuable as my (admittedly above average) rewards. One place I did switch was on my cell phone bill. I take care of a family plan for 6 lines and they offered $10/line per month to do autopay... That was worth it, then a couple months ago they switched it to $5/line if you use a CC but kept it at $10 for a ACH or debit card... I switched it to debit. Kind of miss my 2% kickback. Another recent example is a membership fee that is again $5 off for debit, but this time the math is much closer and I am trying to get a bonus one one of the cards so I'm using it... New for 2024 you can earn some elite qualifying miles on AK Air with their card. I might not make MVP otherwise (adopted a baby) I think it's worth playing the game a bit. I've been averaging well over $1000 in free ticket upgrades a year since getting MVP.

Just stay away from the exit row seats.

[Telecaster]

I should probably look into getting the Delta Amex again, in that case.  I used to rack up miles with 2-3 transpacific flights a year for family visits + work trips.  Don't do that kind of flying any more, but I do have house renovations to pay for.  So maybe if I can throw a bunch on the card I could take advantage of Delta's new focus on spenders rather than flyers.

For me, Alaska is a better deal, especially living in Seattle.     There doesn't seem to be a limit to how many times you can sign up for the Alaska card.  I'm not sure how many times I've signed up and canceled.  Over a dozen I'm sure.  They typically have on-board offers for about 60-65K miles for signing up for a new card.   For a minimum fee of $95 that's about three-ish round trips to Hawaii.  I'll take that deal. 

I'm not a fan of exploiting a merchant's goodwill (or anyone's good will) but I don't think that's the case here.  Alaska is making money selling miles to Bank of America.  BofA is making money selling them to me for extremely cheap.    I'm receiving benefits far beyond my efforts, so something seems off, but everyone seems okay with the arrangement.   

[Alternatepriorities]

Just stay away from the exit row seats.

Can’t sit there when traveling with a kid anyway. I feel confident in Boeing getting it sorted out, but that would have been one heck of a flight.

[seattlecyclone]

I should probably look into getting the Delta Amex again, in that case.  I used to rack up miles with 2-3 transpacific flights a year for family visits + work trips.  Don't do that kind of flying any more, but I do have house renovations to pay for.  So maybe if I can throw a bunch on the card I could take advantage of Delta's new focus on spenders rather than flyers.

For me, Alaska is a better deal, especially living in Seattle.     There doesn't seem to be a limit to how many times you can sign up for the Alaska card.  I'm not sure how many times I've signed up and canceled.  Over a dozen I'm sure.  They typically have on-board offers for about 60-65K miles for signing up for a new card.   For a minimum fee of $95 that's about three-ish round trips to Hawaii.  I'll take that deal. 

I'm not a fan of exploiting a merchant's goodwill (or anyone's good will) but I don't think that's the case here.  Alaska is making money selling miles to Bank of America.  BofA is making money selling them to me for extremely cheap.    I'm receiving benefits far beyond my efforts, so something seems off, but everyone seems okay with the arrangement.   

I'm not much of a credit card churning type, but I have stuck with a single Alaska card account for the past several years. We tend to fly Alaska 1-2 times a year as a family because Alaska has direct flights to relatives, waiting around airports for connecting flights is no fun with little kids, and Alaska's prices are usually pretty competitive anyway. For $95 the card lets us skip the checked bag fee, plus we get a discounted companion ticket once a year. They seem to have cut back on the companion benefits recently, where you only get the companion pass if you spend a certain amount on the card in the previous year, but older cardholders are grandfathered into the old procedure where everyone gets it just by paying the annual fee.

[Alternatepriorities]

I should probably look into getting the Delta Amex again, in that case.  I used to rack up miles with 2-3 transpacific flights a year for family visits + work trips.  Don't do that kind of flying any more, but I do have house renovations to pay for.  So maybe if I can throw a bunch on the card I could take advantage of Delta's new focus on spenders rather than flyers.

For me, Alaska is a better deal, especially living in Seattle.     There doesn't seem to be a limit to how many times you can sign up for the Alaska card.  I'm not sure how many times I've signed up and canceled.  Over a dozen I'm sure.  They typically have on-board offers for about 60-65K miles for signing up for a new card.   For a minimum fee of $95 that's about three-ish round trips to Hawaii.  I'll take that deal. 

I'm not a fan of exploiting a merchant's goodwill (or anyone's good will) but I don't think that's the case here.  Alaska is making money selling miles to Bank of America.  BofA is making money selling them to me for extremely cheap.    I'm receiving benefits far beyond my efforts, so something seems off, but everyone seems okay with the arrangement.   

I'm not much of a credit card churning type, but I have stuck with a single Alaska card account for the past several years. We tend to fly Alaska 1-2 times a year as a family because Alaska has direct flights to relatives, waiting around airports for connecting flights is no fun with little kids, and Alaska's prices are usually pretty competitive anyway. For $95 the card lets us skip the checked bag fee, plus we get a discounted companion ticket once a year. They seem to have cut back on the companion benefits recently, where you only get the companion pass if you spend a certain amount on the card in the previous year, but older cardholders are grandfathered into the old procedure where everyone gets it just by paying the annual fee.

I have not seen or heard anything about that change in policy. We also use Alaska the most because the SeaTac hub is pretty ideal for flying out of anchorage and I have family there as well. The deal with getting status based on spending is new last year and adjusted this year. If you spend 10k on the card you get 4k miles towards MVP status as well usual 10k miles for flying on. You're allowed a maximum on 20k tier miles for the year, but I can't imagine finding a way to get 50k spending without some kind of shenanigans which I'm not as interested in. I'm just hoping it will make up for taking 1 less "fun" trip a year as I think we will still do as much traveling to see people and I'll just be able to maintain the free upgrades.

[lhamo]

Good point about Alaska -- though I have a bit of financial PTSD with that card because when I tried to get one a couple of years ago it got stolen from my mailbox and I ended up with a 6 month identity theft ordeal trying to sort out a $3k cash advance the thieves managed to extract before I locked down my credit.

[seattlecyclone]

From https://www.alaskaair.com/content/mileage-plan/frequently-asked-questions/faq-companion-discount-code:

On January 18, 2023, Bank of America and Alaska Airlines introduced enhanced benefits to the Alaska Airlines Visa Signature® credit card. For customers who have applied for our new enhanced product, there is a spend requirement of $6,000 or more on purchases within an anniversary year to qualify for the annual companion fare.

If you have a pre-2023 account you might want to hang onto it.

[Telecaster]

The companion fare is nice, but for me, the real juice is the sign up bonus.   That's enough miles that I typically don't need to use the companion fare.   Everyone's situation is different of course. 

That said, this thread prompted me to go to the Alaska site and review the benefits, etc.   A sign-up offer for 70K miles just appeared.   That's the highest I've ever seen it.  It came with disclaimer, so everyone might not be able to take advantage, but worth a look if you are interested.   

"This online only offer may not be available elsewhere if you leave this page. You can take advantage of this offer when you apply now."

https://www.alaskaair.com/content/mileage-plan/how-to-earn-miles/financial-partners?lid=mileageplan:how-to-earn:financial-partners

[mtnrider]

Cynically, I think the "cash discount" is a hidden price hike. 

A few local small shops added a credit card fee.  Recently I was waiting at one of these shops for about 45 minutes and got to watch customers paying.  Everyone paid with a credit card.  The shop encourages online payments.  Knowing about the credit card fee, the next time I was there I asked about using a check.  They seemed confused about how this would be done.  I ended up paying by card since I wanted to get out quickly.

I suspect they really did notice that card transaction fees are expensive.  But also that they didn't account for cash management costs.

[Alternatepriorities]

Cynically, I think the "cash discount" is a hidden price hike. 

A few local small shops added a credit card fee.  Recently I was waiting at one of these shops for about 45 minutes and got to watch customers paying.  Everyone paid with a credit card.  The shop encourages online payments.  Knowing about the credit card fee, the next time I was there I asked about using a check.  They seemed confused about how this would be done.  I ended up paying by card since I wanted to get out quickly.

I suspect they really did notice that card transaction fees are expensive.  But also that they didn't account for cash management costs.

This is something I really wonder about, but never quite enough to do a deep dive research project. How much does cash management cost and how much does a check cost in terms of employee time and security costs. Armored trucks don't roll around on goodwill alone. CC fees have always seemed rather steep, but some combination of simplify and increased customer spending must make them worthwhile for vendors. Best as I can tell AmEx is focused on the second while Visa and Master Card are aiming for both?

[spartana]

Cynically, I think the "cash discount" is a hidden price hike. 

A few local small shops added a credit card fee.  Recently I was waiting at one of these shops for about 45 minutes and got to watch customers paying.  Everyone paid with a credit card.  The shop encourages online payments.  Knowing about the credit card fee, the next time I was there I asked about using a check.  They seemed confused about how this would be done.  I ended up paying by card since I wanted to get out quickly.

I suspect they really did notice that card transaction fees are expensive.  But also that they didn't account for cash management costs.

This is something I really wonder about, but never quite enough to do a deep dive research project. How much does cash management cost and how much does a check cost in terms of employee time and security costs. Armored trucks don't roll around on goodwill alone. CC fees have always seemed rather steep, but some combination of simplify and increased customer spending must make them worthwhile for vendors. Best as I can tell AmEx is focused on the second while Visa and Master Card are aiming for both?

Will stores even take personal checks now? I remember my mom would always pay by check at stores and shed have to make it out to the store, with the amount and show ID to the clerk And they'd write that info on.the vack of the check and run it thru some kind of stamping machine. Took forever! And that's just the expense and hassle on the customer/clerk front end let alone the banks and. I can't imagine a store doing that now. Im visualizing a long line of very angry and caffine starved Starbucks customers queing up behind check payers.

[Alternatepriorities]

Cynically, I think the "cash discount" is a hidden price hike. 

A few local small shops added a credit card fee.  Recently I was waiting at one of these shops for about 45 minutes and got to watch customers paying.  Everyone paid with a credit card.  The shop encourages online payments.  Knowing about the credit card fee, the next time I was there I asked about using a check.  They seemed confused about how this would be done.  I ended up paying by card since I wanted to get out quickly.

I suspect they really did notice that card transaction fees are expensive.  But also that they didn't account for cash management costs.

This is something I really wonder about, but never quite enough to do a deep dive research project. How much does cash management cost and how much does a check cost in terms of employee time and security costs. Armored trucks don't roll around on goodwill alone. CC fees have always seemed rather steep, but some combination of simplify and increased customer spending must make them worthwhile for vendors. Best as I can tell AmEx is focused on the second while Visa and Master Card are aiming for both?

Will stores even take personal checks now? I remember my mom would always pay by check at stores and shed have to make it out to the store, with the amount and show ID to the clerk And they'd write that info on.the vack of the check and run it thru some kind of stamping machine. Took forever! And that's just the expense and hassle on the customer/clerk front end let alone the banks and. I can't imagine a store doing that now. Im visualizing a long line of very angry and caffine starved Starbucks customers queing up behind check payers.

They did around here up until at least Oct of ‘22. I haven’t seen anyone try since my dad passed away. He would use his debit card for most things or even a credit card for some things, but I think he always wrote checks for purchase related to his bee keeping business.