Author Topic: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend  (Read 14247 times)

Miedinger

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 7
SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« on: July 05, 2015, 10:00:09 AM »
I'm in college right now and will graduate next year. I'm lucky to be in a field where I get well-paid summer internships, so this year I got a 3-month internship in NYC where I'm getting paid $15k (equivalent to a 60k salary). My SO, however (who I'm living with this summer, and is also interning in NYC) is getting a 120k equivalent for the summer.

I admit there's a bit of resentment, but overall I'm very happy with my career choice and my job. But my SO's spending patterns are different from mine and I've been feeling very pressured to spend at the same level—e.g. eating out with him frequently and picking up every other check, instead of buying groceries and eating at home.

Specific problems:

  • Rent. We decided to live together over the summer, and the apartment we eventually chose to rent was in Manhattan and very near my SO's workplace (because my SO didn't want a long commute) and had a full-fledged kitchen (something expensive that my SO wanted, but has used fairly rarely). My half of the rent is $1300/mo which feels ridiculously high given my income. I tried to talk to my SO about splitting the rent proportional to income (when we were deciding on the apartment) but my SO's parents are paying his rent, and my SO communicated that they would be very uncomfortable with an uneven split. I'm bad at discussing finances and let the matter drop, but I really regret it and would love tips on how to handle this situation in the future. I don't know if it's unfair to revisit that discussion, since I've already agreed to splitting in half.
  • Eating out. My SO is the better chef but really loves eating out. I'm terrible in the kitchen but I'm very comfortable with a boring life of sandwiches and pasta every night, with occasional eating-out splurges. Over the course of our relationship (~18mo) I've started eating out a lot more. I'm very unhappy with this from a budget standpoint but my SO has expressed some disdain about how it's not worth being in NYC and not trying the food, and has tended to eat out 5x/week. Additional factors: my SO's workplace has a catered lunch every day, mine does "only" 1x/week, so my food costs are already greater. Left to my own devices, I usually eat out very little, because I have an expensive hobby already and it gives me more happiness to spend on that instead of eating out.

I feel embarrassed typing this out because a lot of the issues are my fault. I need to be communicating clearly that I can't afford this, saying I won't go out with my SO, and so on. But I don't know the best way to do that and would love advice from the mustachians here. It's hard to not feel poor and stingy when I say "I can't go out today".

Another note: I was able to save a lot last summer (60% of my income, when I was working near my parents and could stay at home). This is when I started reading MMM and was really excited to move towards a more frugal and financially thoughtful lifestyle. It will be tough to save 30% this summer at my current spending rate, and I would have to cut down on a lot of the things that make me happy. I fully expect some (deserved) lectures and maybe that's what I need to do, but right now it just sucks that my finances aren't as good this summer and I'm not getting as much happiness/value out of my money.

Outside of this (which is admittedly a pretty big issue) our relationship is quite good and we may possibly end up at the same city after we graduate/stay together. But if that happens I really need to address the spending problem now.

forummm

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7374
  • Senior Mustachian
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2015, 10:09:46 AM »
I don't know what to tell you besides that, unless your SO has an account on this forum, you're telling this to the wrong people.

Communication is one of the most important parts of a healthy relationship. When DW and I were a new couple it was awkward and unpleasant for us to discuss. But only by continuing to have the conversations did we actually get over that hump. It really only took a few conversations I think. And now we don't have trouble talking about money at all.

Murse

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 574
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2015, 10:13:18 AM »
Is this living situation only for the summer? In my opinion you agreed to the situation, so if it were me I would eat the cost until the lease is up then move somewhere cheaper and possibly renegotiate then if you two still live together.
As for eating out, eat your sandwiches, quit going out. If he asks why your not going out anymore explain that you just can't afford it (regardless of rent) because of your goals. You mentioned he is a much better cook, why not try to talk him into a at home dinner date once/week and get him to teach you?
Also if you don't mind I am curious what he is in to be making 120k in 3 months?

It sounds like you need to do a better job of standing up for yourself in general. Your wants are important too!

2Birds1Stone

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7952
  • Age: 1
  • Location: Earth
  • K Thnx Bye
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2015, 10:16:35 AM »
Yikes, I would definitely share your thoughts with SO asap.

They need to understand that you are earning half and cannot/should not have to spend at their level.

I am in the opposite boat here, I earn 2X what my SO does.......but I am vastly more frugal and it can still be tough. We do an even split on rent but we picked a cheap place to live when we were both making much less money than we are now. If SO suggested an uneven split based on income I would suggest moving to an even cheaper place to keep things fair =)

Sound like you need to open dialogue up asap.

2Birds1Stone

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7952
  • Age: 1
  • Location: Earth
  • K Thnx Bye
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2015, 10:17:45 AM »
Also if you don't mind I am curious what he is in to be making 120k in 3 months?

It sounds like you need to do a better job of standing up for yourself in general. Your wants are important too!

I think OP meant that SO is making the equivalent of a $120k/yr salary in 3 months, aka $30k

bacchi

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7093
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2015, 10:20:32 AM »
My half of the rent is $1300/mo which feels ridiculously high given my income. I tried to talk to my SO about splitting the rent proportional to income (when we were deciding on the apartment) but my SO's parents are paying his rent, and my SO communicated that they would be very uncomfortable with an uneven split.

Wait, what? He's paying $0 and you're paying $1300? Granted, he's sending your half to his parents (right?), reducing their expenses, but he's still personally out $0.

You've already agreed to this arrangement but, damn, it seems much more fair for each of you to pay $650, especially since it's near his workplace and it was his location choice.

KMMK

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1464
  • Age: 47
  • Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada
    • Meena Kestirke Insurance
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2015, 10:22:23 AM »
So SO is paying NO rent, and you are paying $1300, and he is okay with that?
How committed/serious is this relationship? I would not be comfortable with that arrangement, in either of your situations.

How do you and SO feel about his parents paying his bills with that high of an income? Does he expect this in the future? Is he used to other people meeting his financial needs?

This is a relationship issue (as usual) more than a money issue. If you can't communicate this to him, and he is okay with basically taking advantage of your reluctance to have hard conversations, this doesn't seem a healthy relationship for the long-term.

Murse

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 574
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2015, 10:26:27 AM »
Also if you don't mind I am curious what he is in to be making 120k in 3 months?

It sounds like you need to do a better job of standing up for yourself in general. Your wants are important too!

I think OP meant that SO is making the equivalent of a $120k/yr salary in 3 months, aka $30k

Lol, thanks, the title spells that out very clearly, I missed it.

SoftwareGoddess

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 140
  • Location: Canada
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2015, 10:26:56 AM »
I feel embarrassed typing this out because a lot of the issues are my fault. I need to be communicating clearly that I can't afford this, saying I won't go out with my SO, and so on. But I don't know the best way to do that and would love advice from the mustachians here. It's hard to not feel poor and stingy when I say "I can't go out today".

I wouldn't waste a lot of time trying to figure out how to tell your boyfriend that you can't afford your current lifestyle without upsetting him. Just be direct: "Hey, BF, you make twice as much as I do, plus your parents are subsidizing your rent. I don't have these advantages and I cannot afford this. Something needs to change."

As far as feeling stingy and poor goes, you need to think about why you feel that way. It's not stingy to live within your means and spend according to your goals and values. You may be poor, but ask yourself why that is such a bad thing?

As the other posters have mentioned, your BF is behaving really unfairly here. If I were in your position, I'd be having a discussion with him about that, too.

Miedinger

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2015, 10:37:40 AM »
Thanks everyone. I was very surprised to replies so quickly, but I'm very grateful for the help.

I don't know what to tell you besides that, unless your SO has an account on this forum, you're telling this to the wrong people.

I agree…I guess what I'm looking for is some kind of script or guide for how to start the conversation. I tried with the rent and the conversation stalled at "but it wouldn't be fair and my parents wouldn't like it". I think now that what I could have done is say "well, if you won't budge on location or cost, then I can't afford to live with you", but instead I took a few days and decided that we could go with my SO's choice.

I've read some of the other threads and there's a ton of helpful advice about reframing "I wish I could have a nice car like my neighbors"/"It sucks that my relatives treat me as poor for not taking more vacations" into a stronger, more confident perspective of "I am choosing to live frugally and I don't have to justify that to people". I feel very embarrassed at how stressed I am about my finances right now. I know that it's important for me to care about budgeting, but none of my friends and peers worry about how much they eat out. It's hard to not feel like I'm the irrational one.

fwiw, it's also a nice commute for me—my SO has a 10-minute walk, I have a half-hour walk or a 20-minute subway ride. So I do get some benefit out of the location, but I would have been fine with a 40-minute commute (I've done that before—it's a nice time to read).

Wait, what? He's paying $0 and you're paying $1300? Granted, he's sending your half to his parents (right?), reducing their expenses, but he's still personally out $0.

You've already agreed to this arrangement but, damn, it seems much more fair for each of you to pay $650, especially since it's near his workplace and it was his location choice.

Yeah, that's my understanding. I would have preferred to do a split where I paid 1/3 and my SO/SO's family paid 2/3 (which would put me out a reasonable $870/mo).

I guess there's nothing really to be done about this so I'll try to find a way to address the eating out. Part of me feels very timid because I'm not sure if my SO understood, when I brought up the rent, why we shouldn't just split it in half. And my SO told me that I was being too short-sighted in trying to find a place to rent in Brooklyn or something, since we would only be here for the summer and a convenient commute would be important.

Miedinger

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2015, 10:49:05 AM »
How do you and SO feel about his parents paying his bills with that high of an income? Does he expect this in the future? Is he used to other people meeting his financial needs?

Really good questions. For context, my SO's parents are both doctors and currently working. My parents actually retired early a few years ago and have committed to paying for my tuition/rent during college, but they don't have that much extra and I also like being independent from them when possible.

I don't know what my SO expects/how much support my SO's parents give (in terms of discretionary expenses), but I know they also pay for tuition/rent, like my parents.

As far as feeling stingy and poor goes, you need to think about why you feel that way. It's not stingy to live within your means and spend according to your goals and values. You may be poor, but ask yourself why that is such a bad thing?

Thanks for all the advice. This really hit home. I'm pretty good about avoiding a lot of Facebook lifestyle envy (which is a big problem for people my age, I think—being jealous of the fun vacations and parties and dazzling social lives of my acquaintances) but for some reason money is a big sticking point for me. A lot of why I read MMM is to try to "deprogram" myself from the feeling of needing to have the appearance of affluence/bourgeoise comfort. I'm not sure why feeling poor/seeming poor is such an issue, especially since I truly can afford everything I care about, I just need to wait a bit longer for some things to be feasible.

Don't really have a good answer for this, but I'll think about it.

SO is out of town for a few days so hopefully that will give some time for me to work up the courage/resolve to properly address this in a conversation.

Murse

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 574
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2015, 11:08:56 AM »
It seems most people are looking at this as this being your SO and so he should be taking care of you. In my opinion most people grey these lines when it should be pretty black and white. when put in these kinds of situations I ask myself what would I be comfortable with asking if this were my friend? Would you ask a friend to pay 2/3rds of the rent because their income is higher? Or would you of simply said you can't afford it? If this was your friend would you be going out to eat with them all of the time? You don't need to answer these out loud, I just wanted to share with you my strategy for these types of questions.

Personally in my relationship I will likely make 1/3 more then my SO once I become employed, I chose my major and she chose hers, if we moved in together everything would be split down the middle. Just because your SO chose a more lucrative field, does that mean he should pay more then 50%?

You are two separate financial entities until you are married. The reason I think like this is because breaking up is always a possibility until you are married (hopefully.) If he/his family subsidizes your living and you two break up it becomes a lot more complicated. Were you being subsidized because the belief was you were going to get married? Does that make it a gift? Or were you being subsidized contingent on the belief that it there would be a marriage?

I'll probably get a lot of flack for this but these are my beliefs and how I view the world.


« Last Edit: July 05, 2015, 11:18:56 AM by Murse »

Noodle

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1316
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2015, 11:28:31 AM »
I would cut yourself a little slack on the apartment thing--there were actually three parties to the negotiation (you, your SO, and your SO's parents) with three separate sets of goals and you and SO's parents were negotiating through him so it's not surprising that not everyone ended up happy. I can also see SO's parents' perspective that the relationship is not serious enough to get into complicated financial stuff like proportional rent splitting (as might be appropriate, for instance, with an engaged couple). At this point, it's a done deal.

I do think your SO was somewhat immature in not considering your perspective on costs vs. commuting but there are a lot of people who take awhile to grow into maturity but turn out to be really great human beings...up to you as to whether you want to be along for the ride during the growth process.

At this point, though, you really just need to lay your cards on the table. You make X. You have X in monthly expenses (if he is any kind of decent person, he will know that is partly his doing). You need to save X. That leaves Y over for variables like food. He can cook. He can treat when you go out. He can help you learn to cook. He can eat what you already know how to cook. You can go different directions for meals sometimes. What would he like to do? Given that SO has never lived independently yet, I can sympathize with some cluelessness about how money works. The question is what he does when you lay it out for him.

human

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 787
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2015, 11:37:29 AM »
I'll provide a different perspective. My last two SOs made less than I did, one expected me to subsidize her lifestyle while the other expected her parents to do it. The first I flat out refused, the second I didn't give it much thought. What am I getting at? Your expenses and income are divided right now . . . maybe you shouldn't be living together if that's the case, it was the downfall of the first relationship I mentioned. I didn't want to subsidize her lifestyle and that was that. You should move out into your own place and take care of your own finances until the two of you are able to combine them.

I've never been able to (or comfortable with) combining income and budget so I was lucky to find an SO who was comfortable on their own and we each pay half the fixed expenses, everything else is separate. If you can't afford half the fixed expenses that he wants to spend, move out and set your own budget.

KMMK

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1464
  • Age: 47
  • Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada
    • Meena Kestirke Insurance
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2015, 11:37:53 AM »
It seems most people are looking at this as this being your SO and so he should be taking care of you. In my opinion most people grey these lines when it should be pretty black and white. when put in these kinds of situations I ask myself what would I be comfortable with asking if this were my friend? Would you ask a friend to pay 2/3rds of the rent because their income is higher? Or would you of simply said you can't afford it? If this was your friend would you be going out to eat with them all of the time? You don't need to answer these out loud, I just wanted to share with you my strategy for these types of questions.

Personally in my relationship I will likely make 1/3 more then my SO once I become employed, I chose my major and she chose hers, if we moved in together everything would be split down the middle. Just because your SO chose a more lucrative field, does that mean he should pay more then 50%?

You are two separate financial entities until you are married. The reason I think like this is because breaking up is always a possibility until you are married (hopefully.) If he/his family subsidizes your living and you two break up it becomes a lot more complicated. Were you being subsidized because the belief was you were going to get married? Does that make it a gift? Or were you being subsidized contingent on the belief that it there would be a marriage?

I'll probably get a lot of flack for this but these are my beliefs and how I view the world.

Normally I agree with you, and think a 50/50 split is fair in the situation you describe. That's exactly what my husband and I did, regardless of our income levels, as we chose how much money to earn.

However in the OPs situation this doesn't feel like 50/50 to me. It depends on whether you see the parents as an extension of the SO or not.

I just know that if I was in the position of the higher earner, and my parents were covering my portion of the rent, I'd be extremely uncomfortable with my SO making that level of salary and paying $1300. If they were just a roommate, then yes, fine. Also if half of the rent was a more reasonable number: $500-700 or thereabouts, depending on salary or city, also fine. But in the situation as described I'd feel like a complete jerk with this arrangement with any kind of friend or romantic partner.

Murse

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 574
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2015, 11:54:44 AM »
It seems most people are looking at this as this being your SO and so he should be taking care of you. In my opinion most people grey these lines when it should be pretty black and white. when put in these kinds of situations I ask myself what would I be comfortable with asking if this were my friend? Would you ask a friend to pay 2/3rds of the rent because their income is higher? Or would you of simply said you can't afford it? If this was your friend would you be going out to eat with them all of the time? You don't need to answer these out loud, I just wanted to share with you my strategy for these types of questions.

Personally in my relationship I will likely make 1/3 more then my SO once I become employed, I chose my major and she chose hers, if we moved in together everything would be split down the middle. Just because your SO chose a more lucrative field, does that mean he should pay more then 50%?

You are two separate financial entities until you are married. The reason I think like this is because breaking up is always a possibility until you are married (hopefully.) If he/his family subsidizes your living and you two break up it becomes a lot more complicated. Were you being subsidized because the belief was you were going to get married? Does that make it a gift? Or were you being subsidized contingent on the belief that it there would be a marriage?

I'll probably get a lot of flack for this but these are my beliefs and how I view the world.

Normally I agree with you, and think a 50/50 split is fair in the situation you describe. That's exactly what my husband and I did, regardless of our income levels, as we chose how much money to earn.

However in the OPs situation this doesn't feel like 50/50 to me. It depends on whether you see the parents as an extension of the SO or not.

I just know that if I was in the position of the higher earner, and my parents were covering my portion of the rent, I'd be extremely uncomfortable with my SO making that level of salary and paying $1300. If they were just a roommate, then yes, fine. Also if half of the rent was a more reasonable number: $500-700 or thereabouts, depending on salary or city, also fine. But in the situation as described I'd feel like a complete jerk with this arrangement with any kind of friend or romantic partner.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with your statement. The parents are a separate issue in my mind, the parents should not be helping at all when he has an income this large. 120k/year puts him at 10k/month for 3 months (-taxes.) I mean, I am unsure of the OP's life goals, but if she intends to become FI at an early age (while married) his spending is going to need to be controlled at some point. He's making 30k in 3 months and that's not enough to cover his 3900$ worth of rent? We know he grew up with parents that are physicians, the entire situation just screams hedonic adaptation to me.

Lynne

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 48
  • Age: 43
  • Location: Alberta
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2015, 12:04:43 PM »
Your SO sounds awfully....freeloader-y to me.  He's making 40K this summer and his parents are *still* paying his rent?  And so he's eating out all the time and getting a more expensive apartment than necessary because, well, why not, when someone else is subsidizing him.  And he doesn't seem to have much empathy for why *you* would want to save money / support yourself as much as you can.

I'm not saying he's not a good person, but the kindest interpretation I have for the freeloading is that he's still very immature and his parents are enabling/encouraging his sense of entitlement.  I'd be looking very hard at whether I wanted to stay in a relationship with someone who has that much growing up to do.

(Nobody subsidized me through my education though.  I don't see that kind of help as a bad thing, but I think people who get it ought to be appreciative and try to minimize the expense for whoever is paying their way;  I don't have much sympathy for the ones who just take it for granted.)

[edited to fix the $ amount because apparently I can't math :P]
« Last Edit: July 05, 2015, 12:09:18 PM by Lynne »

Midwestache

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 39
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #17 on: July 05, 2015, 12:09:50 PM »
I think just because he makes more than you doesn't mean he should be spending more than you. When my wife and I were dating in college we still split things down the middle where I made considerably more than her. We never lived together until graduate school where we still split things down the middle when she made considerably more than me. The difference was when I was making more I would treat her to nicer meals where I would pick up the tab. In grad school the opposite was true. You guys are not married yet, thus should not be expected to split everything down the middle. If you were to find a place to live by yourself could you find a place that was safe, within similar difference for less than $1300? This should have been considered before hand. Also sounds like both of you have your tuition paid for, thus this money you are earning is just for spending, so 5K a month is still plenty for "spending" money.


lostamonkey

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 450
  • Location: Canada
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2015, 12:17:31 PM »
 I find your rental agreement to be fair. I feel that his parents are an extension of himself and it is fair that you are expected to cover half the apartment rent if you agreed to his choice of apartment.

That being said, I think you should talk to him about wanting to reduce your spending on eating out. He can either pay for a high percentage of your meals out, or both of you can eat out less.

former player

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8884
  • Location: Avalon
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2015, 12:20:18 PM »
OP says they are well-paid for an intern and $4k for rent out of $15k earnings doesn't seem outrageous to me in New York (although I'm used to London prices).  Also, how much does OP need to save out of that intern pay? - they say it will be tough to save 30%.  Is it really a problem if they only save 20% of that three month's pay - $3k?  I realise the anti-mustachian implications of that question, but OP has tuition and rent paid by parents and has had previous paid summer internships, so any student debt racking up should be pretty limited.  I'm leaning towards telling OP not to fret too much: they are still doing OK even given a relatively expensive summer in New York with their sweetie.

I agree the rent thing is a sunk cost.  I would recommend that the OP learns some negotiating skills so that they can identify negotiation problems more quickly and has negotiating strategies  up their sleeve to deal with them.

On the food costs, OP again needs to take some control.  There have already been some good suggestions here.  How about picnics in Central Park?  Learning to eat cheaply in restaurants (e.g. drink tap water, don't have starters, side dishes, puddings or coffee) and splitting the bill based on expenditure would also keep costs down.

If OP is looking at this relationship as a potential long-term one, they need to either accept that their SO is the more spendy of the two of them (and also that he still hides behind his parents when convenient) and learn to manage their own spending as they want while staying in the relationship, or to gently lead their SO to more frugal, planet-friendly ways.  Either way will need some serious relationship skills to manage, especially for someone who is probably still only 21 years old or so. 
« Last Edit: July 05, 2015, 01:19:37 PM by former player »

chasesfish

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4383
  • Age: 42
  • Location: Florida
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2015, 12:57:23 PM »
I'm assuming you're both 21-22?  If so, I think you're worrying a little too much.

You just need to communicate what you do/don't enjoy.  If you don't get any additional happiness from eating out at a restaurant verses packing a dinner and taking it to central park, you need to clearly communicate this.  I believe that life (and a relationship) is about finding happiness with yourself and with each other.  It took my wife and I years (and her to stop working) for us to realize that.  We found it funny on our last vacation just how cheap we were eating after a long day of hiking compared to what we did five years ago.   Its ironic since we already are close to having walk-away money yet I continue to work because I enjoy it.

The apartment sounds pretty reasonable to me by the way, short-term rental in Manhattan verses renting far away and committing.     That's my personal opinion, but its because I put a high value on my time and choose to own fairly crappy cars since I'm only in them for 10-15 minutes a day.

CmFtns

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 583
  • Age: 33
  • Location: Melbourne, Fl
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2015, 01:22:18 PM »
First of all I don't know if you've read these but there are two posts on MMM about this type of issue:
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/04/25/having-the-talk-with-a-current-or-potential-mate/
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/03/22/selling-the-dream-how-to-make-your-spouse-love-frugality/

I believe it makes relationships monumentally easier with communication and common goals. Sometimes I take for granted the similarities of the goals me and my GF have and our common excitement about our future. I think you need to communicate to your SO what your goals are and the things you plan to do to reach them. If he says "NO" then I think there is a serious problem with him trying to control your life. He cannot forcefully drag you into his lifestyle choices while you two also maintain a healthy relationship.

Now this will probably be a slow change and you cant expect one talk to solve all problems and things to change instantly. In the scope of 1 summer I think you are worrying too much. Mustacian principles are lifestyle choices that will hopefully live on and grow well past the activities of one spendy summer.

For now, you have made commitments before communicating your goals so you must fulfill your commitment to split the rent 50/50. As for the food, that comes along with discussing your goals. Your SO should absolutely understand your goals and compromise on the food and other expenses that aren't rent/utilities. If he does not want to stop eating out 5x a week then that is fine but he should understand that you just wont join him 75% of the time. You can both live your own lives with separate goals and have a healthy relationship as long as you both respect each person's individual decisions.

electriceagle

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 521
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2015, 05:00:41 PM »
I feel embarrassed typing this out because a lot of the issues are my fault. I need to be communicating clearly that I can't afford this, saying I won't go out with my SO, and so on. But I don't know the best way to do that and would love advice from the mustachians here. It's hard to not feel poor and stingy when I say "I can't go out today".

I wouldn't waste a lot of time trying to figure out how to tell your boyfriend that you can't afford your current lifestyle without upsetting him. Just be direct: "Hey, BF, you make twice as much as I do, plus your parents are subsidizing your rent. I don't have these advantages and I cannot afford this. Something needs to change."

As far as feeling stingy and poor goes, you need to think about why you feel that way. It's not stingy to live within your means and spend according to your goals and values. You may be poor, but ask yourself why that is such a bad thing?

As the other posters have mentioned, your BF is behaving really unfairly here. If I were in your position, I'd be having a discussion with him about that, too.

Bingo.

If you're dedicated to a MMM-type lifestyle, both you and your partner will need to stomach spending less, which will include eating out less.

If you are really dedicated to pursuing early retirement, you should talk to your potential partner about this. It may take, but the odds are slim if he hasn't hit the real world yet and mommy and daddy are paying his rent.

BTW, I disagree with the expectation that he (you didn't mention gender, but everyone else seems to have assumed that you are the female of a hetero relationship) should subsidize you by splitting expenses proportional to income.

For people with similar educational opportunities (I presume that you are both at the same college), future income is often a choice that is balanced against social/artistic fulfillment and stress.

When you work in a lower-paid, but more fulfilling field, you are trading potential income for fulfillment. You get to play with kids while the other guy gets yelled at by a guy in a suit, but the other guy gets a bigger paycheck than you. Given similar educational opportunity, thats fair. If you valued the additional money more than the fulfillment, you would have made the other choice.

Cassie

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7946
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2015, 05:36:29 PM »
Suze Orman suggests that each pay the same percentage of their income for fixed expenses such as rent, etc so it is fair.  Not the same amount but the same percentage. If you live together in your next city I would definitely do this or you are getting taken advantage of.  If he is not willing to he is greedy & cheap & I would not stay with him.

Maya

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 256
  • Location: Canada
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #24 on: July 05, 2015, 05:41:09 PM »
I think you only start splitting expenses based on salary further down the line when you are fully committed and sure you want to fully invest int he relationship ie, you'd marry the guy, have kids together, commit fully.

At the moment it sounds like you guys are more in a roommate with benefits, albeit committed relationship. I think you need to tell him your goals and why you don't want to spend at restaurants every night. 5 nights is a ton. He should be able to understand that or he is really selfish. I doubt he'd go out as much if you said no.

Also learn to cook a bit. It's not hard. Get some good cookbooks from the library and start following them.

James

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1678
  • Age: 51
  • Location: Rice Lake, WI
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #25 on: July 05, 2015, 06:53:04 PM »
Sounds like you have a serious communication issue. Can't know if it's a problem with your SO, since we can't know what the response would have been if your communication issue was solved. It could be there are some other issues out there, but I would start with your communication problem.

First, I suggest you not conduct these conversations verbally. Next time a major issue like this comes up, ask if you can hash it out by email (or just by starting the conversation out by email). If your SO brings up the issue verbally, respond without making commitments, and then say you need to consider it and will bring it up later. By communicating with email you give yourself a chance to think more carefully about the issue and voice the concerns and needs you forget or can't word correctly in "real time". If that doesn't work make sure you don't finish a discussion without feeling heard or finishing your points. Say you need time to think and you guys can finish the conversation later, but don't let the conversation end with SO thinking it is resolved.

Make sure you aren't making "hints". Hints are fine when the communication isn't important, but if you are hinting about major financial issues, you will find yourself ending up where you don't want to me. If you aren't feeling heard, you probably aren't being direct enough and following through with your full message. Make sure you are clear and direct.

Regarding rent, it is total BS that SO can't pay more than half due to parents paying half. SO can pay some out of pocket! Having said that, you needed to be more direct up front. Saying $X is all I choose to budget for rent would let SO make up the difference if a more expensive place is important. Sounds like you are getting pushed around big time in this relationship. SO might enjoy that, but I doubt SO respects you as much as a partner should. SO might really appreciate you more as a partner seeing you standing up for yourself and handling yourself more responsibly. And if not, then SO needs to be XO.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2015, 06:55:48 PM by James »

okits

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *
  • Posts: 13057
  • Location: Canada
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #26 on: July 05, 2015, 07:12:26 PM »
If you need a script, the next time he suggests dinner out, ask lightly, "are you treating?  I'm out of money." If he offers to lend you money you can tell him seriously, "I'm not borrowing money just to eat at a restaurant." Then tell him what kind of sandwiches/pasta you'll make for dinner.  He can eat with you or go to the restaurant without you.

More serious than this are 1) your fear of upsetting people/making him unhappy/confrontation, 2) his lack of empathy towards your financial situation, 3) lack of shared goals (specifically ER), and 4) his hiding behind his parents when convenient.  As someone commented earlier, you have relationship problems, not financial problems.  Hope you resolve them.

Telecaster

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3569
  • Location: Seattle, WA
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #27 on: July 05, 2015, 07:51:01 PM »
Here's my two cents:  A love relationship is a partnership.  It is really hard to make something like that work, if you are view it in terms of who is contributing the most dollars.  Because looking at dollars is a form of keeping score. 

My one bit of advice:  Keeping score in a relationship, regardless of the area, soon leads to resentment.  So don't do it. 

You should both view it like an opportunity to  contribute as much as you can to the relationship, in terms of finances, time, emotional support, etc. 

If both you view it in terms of you earn X dollars, therefore you should contribute Y dollars, and therefore get to make Z decision, there will be problems down the road. 

frugaldrummer

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 846
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #28 on: July 05, 2015, 08:30:19 PM »
My opinion is, expenses should be split 50:50 before marriage, UNLESS the lower earning partner contributes more in some other fashion (for instance, if the lower earner did all the cooking or some such), OR the higher earning partner wants to subsidize expenses in order to have the more expensive apartment. You didn't speak up to say the apartment was too expensive for you, you are correct that that was your mistake.

And I DON'T understand why his parents are paying his rent when he's earning $10k per month.

Also....you mentioned that you have some expensive hobbies of your own.  No way should his parents be subsidizing your rent so that you can pursue expensive hobbies.



swick

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2877
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #29 on: July 05, 2015, 08:53:30 PM »
"Love is not two people looking at each other, but two people looking in the same direction, together"
 - overhead on a ferry, I think it was a pastor counseling a young guy.

You and your SO are not on the same page, in so, so many different ways. Communication is key. As is figuring the type of life you want for yourself and if your current SO shares the vision.

LeRainDrop

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1834
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #30 on: July 05, 2015, 08:59:56 PM »
"Love is not two people looking at each other, but two people looking in the same direction, together"
 - overhead on a ferry, I think it was a pastor counseling a young guy.

"Love does not consist in gazing at each other, but in looking outward together in the same direction."  -- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

CommonCents

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2363
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #31 on: July 05, 2015, 09:35:09 PM »
If you need a script, the next time he suggests dinner out, ask lightly, "are you treating?  I'm out of money." If he offers to lend you money you can tell him seriously, "I'm not borrowing money just to eat at a restaurant." Then tell him what kind of sandwiches/pasta you'll make for dinner.  He can eat with you or go to the restaurant without you.

More serious than this are 1) your fear of upsetting people/making him unhappy/confrontation, 2) his lack of empathy towards your financial situation, 3) lack of shared goals (specifically ER), and 4) his hiding behind his parents when convenient.  As someone commented earlier, you have relationship problems, not financial problems.  Hope you resolve them.

+1

My opinion is, expenses should be split 50:50 before marriage, UNLESS the lower earning partner contributes more in some other fashion (for instance, if the lower earner did all the cooking or some such), OR the higher earning partner wants to subsidize expenses in order to have the more expensive apartment. You didn't speak up to say the apartment was too expensive for you, you are correct that that was your mistake.

And I DON'T understand why his parents are paying his rent when he's earning $10k per month.

Also....you mentioned that you have some expensive hobbies of your own.  No way should his parents be subsidizing your rent so that you can pursue expensive hobbies.

+1

You have a communication issue.  You didn't communicate your true feelings regarding the apartment (it's too much) so you need to make the best of that issue and resolve not to do it again.  In regards to frequent going out, I'd tell your bf: "I looked at my bills and realized I spent X on food+going out this past month, which is pretty crazy!  Saving for my future - an emergency fund, a down payment on a house, for kids, and for retirement so I don't work forever - is important to me, so I've set a budget for dining out of X/month this summer going forward.  I realize I have substantially less disposable income than you.  I understand as a result that you may go out without me some nights, but I'm also hoping you'll enjoy staying in other nights with me.  I'm going to try to learn to cook better and I would love it if you'd give me some lessons.  I'm also happy to help you figure out where to invest your extra money this summer."

And then on the nights you do go out, look for new ethnic places (which are likely cheaper) to try out. 

OP, I don't think it's right at this stage in your life to split your bills by income.  At another stage - and when he's actually footing the bills and not palming them off on his parents - it may be appropriate.  It's also totally reasonable for you to decline to room with him in the future due to an inability to agree on what to rent, or to refuse places that are too expensive for you.  (As another post said though - consider what you would have done if you didn't room with him.  Would you have roomed alone with a more expensive place?  In which case, perhaps don't begrudge the $1300 so much.  Or with friends?  In which case, consider that the next time.)  Finally, consider compromises in the future - perhaps you can find a place with a 25 minute commute for him instead of 10 or 40, that are cheaper. 

You'll discover a lot of living with a significant other is about learning to communicate and compromise. 

Take responsibility for being a doormat and refuse to be one again.  And take responsibility for offering some compromises - such as learning to cook dishes your bf will enjoy.  Then you can offer to trade off night of cooking or treating each other as another option to solving the issue.

Spondulix

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 656
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Los Angeles, CA
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #32 on: July 05, 2015, 11:55:07 PM »
In terms of the communication, try thinking of it from this perspective. If you were just roommates - no emotional connection - and he invited you out to dinner all the time, what would you say? I think this is actually a common issue for college students and people starting out in the field. Most people don't know what kind of lifestyle they can really afford and often fall back on what they grew up with - especially when there's student loans or family helping out financially.

When I was right out of college, I'd go out to eat with my friends and order water and the cheapest thing on the menu. One of my friends would order an expensive bottle of wine and appetizers for the table then expect everyone would split the cost. It drove me nuts cause I knew NO ONE was earning enough to afford those kinds of extras (including the guy ordering them) but no one wanted to be "that guy" to tell him not to do it. Eventually, someone thought to ask for a separate check and then suddenly everyone else wanted split checks too. It only took once of our friend getting stuck with the hefty bill to get the picture.

In retrospect we should have just said something... but the point is, it's awkward whether it's a SO or a friend. If you're planning on being a saver and living Mustachian, this is a struggle that's going to come up many, many times. If you look through case studies on the site, about 9 out of 10 talk about spending too much eating out.

cripzychiken

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 194
  • Location: Central Florida
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #33 on: July 06, 2015, 06:45:01 AM »
There is one massive issue here that I've seen (and done) 100s of times - you've tried but then failed to talk to your SO about the cost of stuff.  Then, even if you are constantly thinking about it, he isn't.  So when you come out of left field (in his mind) pissed about money, he's taken back by this sudden attack. This is a communication issue plan and simple.  Luckily, you've been able to spot it and can help fix the problem.

My thoughts - you're on the hook for the $1300/month for rent.  While it might be more than you are wanting to pay, and seems unfair to me (he makes more, lives closer to work, picked the place, and pays the same?) you've agreed to it so let that water flow under the bridge.  If it was me - start refusing to go out to eat with your SO.  If he wants to go out for dinner, say no thanks and start cooking.  I'd be surprised if he goes out more than once without you.  When he asks why, just says you don't feel like paying for a meal when you are paying to rent a full kitchen.  Invite your friends/other interns over to your apartment, sounds like you have a nice apartment, probably better than most of the other interns, so host some Friday night drinks at your place - still get the going out/friendship but for a faction of the cost.

Take this summer as the chance to talk about long term goals.  you are living with this guy, so I'm taking it as it is serious with looks towards the future.  Make sure you both are looking in the same direction (love that quote).  Don't be afraid of upsetting him, because it is better to do it now then to do it in 2 years, or 5 years, or never getting to live the way you want.  Take this summer as a way to 'stress test' the relationship and see if you can deal with the true person your SO is (and if he can deal with you).  Plus, maybe he'll like the idea of being able to leave the high stress NYC job market after 5-10 years and do his work anywhere since his paycheck amount won't matter (I find that younger people don't understand the whole hate your job, but do understand that there are stressful and low stress jobs - with a paycheck being one of the big differences).

Understand compromise.  Assuming long-term you two stay together, you are looking at 180k/yr - probably more b/c interns usually get paid less than normal employees.  So you are going to be able to have a ton of savings while still keeping a very "MMM-spendy" lifestyle.  The trick is to get something for each of you.  If either side feels like they won, you both failed.  If he wants a big 2 week vacation in Europe, you want an equiv amount of index funds - and both paid for before the plane lifts off; plus both sides benefit, you get the same vacation as him and he gets the same FI as you.  He wants a new car, you want to max all of both of your retirement accounts.  He wants to start becoming a wine coinsurer, you want to eat home 6 nights a week.  He wants cable, you want a weekly trip to the library that he comes with you on. 

 

Jakejake

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 720
  • FIRE: June 17, 2016
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #34 on: July 06, 2015, 07:36:58 AM »
I'm in the middle of reading The Millionaire Next Door right now, and the section I just finished has to do with well off parents subsidizing their adult children's lifestyles. (Apologies for summarizing if you've already read this!)

Parents do this with the idea that it will help their children get ahead in life, but the result is exactly the opposite, that the people whose parents gift them money regularly end up saving less, and being less prepared for retirement than people like you, who may earn significantly less but pay your own way. If you haven't read that book yet, it might be worth getting it (or get it as an audio book and listen to it during your commute).

If you're planning to be in a long term relationship with this man, you need to figure out if he continues to spend like that, is it a deal breaker for you or not? Does staying with him depend on you being able to change him? Can you live long term with keeping your money separate, and setting a firm budget and boundaries for yourself?

Like others I think you are screwed regarding this summer's rent because you already agreed to it. But moving forward in the next living arrangement is going to take some decisions. There are a lot of differing opinions here about whether a 50/50 split is equitable or whether it should be proportional to salary.

I'd like to suggest a different approach. You set up your ideal budget with money allotted for savings, rent, food, etc. Share it with him before you agree on the next living set up. If you're willing to pay up to 1000 for rent, he needs to know that. If you guys can find a place for $2k, you split 50/50. If he isn't willing to live in any of those options and wants a fancier place, he pays the extra - because it's his requirement to upgrade, not yours. Same with eating out. You set your firm budget, you will spend up to X per month. When that's gone, you tell him sorry, I've spent my eating out money for the month. If you want us to go out for the rest of the month, that's your decision but I can't contribute to it.

(Personally, I'd probably dump him at some point because money differences are the death of so many relationships and based on what I'm reading I doubt he's going to change. I'd be seriously face punching myself if I bled my retirement money for years on a relationship that I knew from the start was that seriously flawed. But I'm saying that as a woman in my 50's, not one in my 20's and hindsight makes people smug - maybe in my 20's I'd be just like you!)

zhelud

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 243
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #35 on: July 06, 2015, 08:03:02 AM »
Good grief, if I were making $15k/month and wanted to live in an expensive apartment for the summer with my lower-earning SO (who didn't choose the apartment in the first place), I would be embarrassed to ask him for more than a token amount to put towards rent. Especially if my parents were also giving me an extra $1300/month!

MissStache

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 710
  • Age: 41
  • Location: Washington, DC
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #36 on: July 06, 2015, 08:20:38 AM »
I don't think you have room to negotiate on the rent.  You agreed to it, and it would be really crappy of you to try and change that arrangement now. 

But you can definitely control the eating out situation.  If you're having a hard time bringing up the conversation you can always start with something like "Hey, I sat down and really figured out my budget.  I only have $X to spend on food and drinks, which means I can only go out once or twice a week.  I'd love to have more meals at home, but I understand if you would rather eat out.  I hope you enjoy yourself!  If you'd like to stay in a few night a week and teach me about cooking, I'd love to be your sous chef!"  or "Since I can only spend $X a week on food, including my lunches, could we find some cheap places to try and maybe save the nice meals for a once- or twice-a-month treat?"

See how he reacts.  This is going to be a very good indication of what your future money conversations will look like if you decide to go forward with this relationship.  He'll either be supportive and try to help you reach your goals, or he'll be winey and put out that you're holding him back from doing what he wants to do.  Pay attention to how he responds to this situation

He doesn't come off great here, but have you communicated with him your concerns and why you don't want to/aren't able to spend as much?  Be honest and open with him, and then let us know how it goes!

limeandpepper

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4569
  • Location: Australasia
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #37 on: July 06, 2015, 08:50:44 AM »
If you've already agreed to the rental arrangement, it's too late for you to go back on it now. However, you should still discuss your ideas with him and see if he is open to tackling similar situations differently in the future (and really - if he's nice - it's not too late for HIM to offer to put in more money for the place). Next time, don't agree to an arrangement if you feel it is unfair. If you both adored the place then I think going halves is fine regardless of the disparity in salary. What I feel is inconsiderate is that he chose the place he wanted - with the nice kitchen and the location that is awesome for him - things that weren't so important to you and didn't really benefit you as much - and didn't at least offer to chip in extra. You have to learn to be more assertive in the future, for sure, but at the same time, he shouldn't be walking all over you just because you're not assertive enough, either.

As for going out to eat - just say no if you don't want to. If he really wants to eat out, he can eat out alone, eat with other people, or treat you to the meal. I guess I just don't see what the big deal is. You don't have to do every single thing together. Your desires are just as important as his. What's wrong with saying that you don't want to go out? You shouldn't be shy about being honest with your partner - particularly if you've already been going out for 18 months.

bwall

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1220
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #38 on: July 06, 2015, 09:42:06 AM »
Why is SO a better cook? Why should that hinder you from learning to cook? Learn to cook and free yourself.

I learned to cook out of necessity and it became a passion of sorts. I'm sooooo glad that I learned and now cooking a nice dinner is a nice way for me to unwind after a stressful day.

On a side note, when I was dating I noticed that none of the women I met could cook. I imagine they considered this a sign of their 'liberation' or whatever. But, they earned much less than I did and therefore I viewed it as a sign of their laziness or at a minimum, lack of shared interest.


TrulyStashin

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1024
  • Location: Mid-Sized Southern City
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #39 on: July 06, 2015, 10:01:08 AM »
Lots of great advice here -- this problem is deeper than how much you're paying for rent.

Here are two practical suggestions:

1) Improve your cooking skills.  It's not hard and when you get really good at it, you'll experience a new level of satisfaction.  You'll WANT to eat at home. And on the rare occasions when you eat out, it can be somewhere great and you can then go home and experiment with fixing what you just paid servants to prepare.  Your badassity quotient will go up and you'll feel great.

2) Decide how much you're willing to spend for ALL eating out over the course of the month (from a coffee purchase to a dinner entree -- ALL of it).  Open a separate checking account (somewhere free) and when you get paid transfer that amount into the new account.  When that $$ runs out, whether it's on Day 10 or Day 28, you don't eat out again at all.  Tell your SO that this is how it is, and update SO as the month goes on  "It's July 20, and I only have $15 left in Restaurant Account."   This might seem silly, but putting this kind of structure around your spending can be very helpful when you have trouble standing up for yourself and/ or you lack discipline (both of which I've struggled with).

Good luck and stay the course!

Frugal_NYC

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 77
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #40 on: July 06, 2015, 10:07:05 AM »
Here are a few points (I live in NYC and have a SO fwiw)

1) Rent is never correlated to income - you choose the place and any split is determined by size of each person's room.  In this case it would be 50/50

2) Focus on your own situation - you guys are not married yet so you have no right to control his spending.  Explain to him that you want to cut costs by eating out less etc and make sure he's aware for transparency purposes going forward that you like the frugal lifestyle.

3) Personally, I would just enjoy the summer in NYC - you may not be back ever again so enjoy it within reason.  I didn't really start saving "hard" until I was 1-2 years out of school and now I just turned 25 and have six-figure NW and save thousands each month living in Manhattan with roommates that spend like they're in Congress.  It's give and take - sometimes you go out with spendy friends/SO and sometimes you draw the line.

Me and SO have been dating since Junior year of college (4.5 years) and we still live separately with friends.  This has worked very well because we are both fairly frugal (myself much more so) but we never dictate/debate financial decisions to each other.  As we get ready to settle down we have a clear understand of what to expect from each other finance-wise - and we will not commingle finances until married (not just when we move in together)
« Last Edit: July 06, 2015, 10:14:30 AM by Frugal_NYC »

Midwest

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1358
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #41 on: July 06, 2015, 10:16:07 AM »
Rent - From my perspective (there a many dissenting opinions on this), the parental contribution is between you boyfriend and his parents.  As far as splitting rent on an income basis, you made the agreement.  I think it's out of line to revisit.  I would argue that 50/50 is fair unless you are married or living together long term, but that's me.

Eating Out - Communicate that you can only afford so much to eat out.  Assuming you are still in school, stress that you want to minimize loans and saving during the summer helps with that.  Having said that, have a good time in New York.

Good luck.

« Last Edit: July 06, 2015, 10:17:46 AM by Midwest »

I'm a red panda

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8186
  • Location: United States
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #42 on: July 06, 2015, 10:29:23 AM »
You are two separate financial entities until you are married.

This is my thought too.  When I had roommates, I always split 50/50. Our income was irrelevant. Whether or not it was parent subsidized, it was irrelevant.

I would not expect someone I was dating to subsidize rent.  If I couldn't afford to live with them, I would live elsewhere. It isn't necessary to live with your girlfriend/boyfriend.  Now, if girlfriend/boyfriend wants to go out to expensive things that I actually can't afford- then I would say "I'll go if you pay, but I can't afford that."

mskyle

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 691
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #43 on: July 06, 2015, 11:29:22 AM »
On rent, I think you (singular you) need to decide how much you are comfortable spending in rent, and then say, "If we are going to live together, we need to find a place where I can spend $X a month." If he wants to subsidize your portion of the rent so that you can live in a fancier apartment, that's fine; if dividing the rent 50/50 is important to him (or his parents) then he can downsize. If you're locked into a lease, that really sucks and I don't know what you can do about it - the time for this discussion was *before* you made a commitment to live with him in this apt.

I agree that 50/50 is fair, regardless of your respective incomes, but you need to draw a boundary about how much you are willing to spend. It is also 100% fair to say, "If living in this apartment with these amenities at this price is important to you, we probably shouldn't be living together right now."

Cassie

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7946
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #44 on: July 06, 2015, 11:34:56 AM »
Since you agreed to the split you are stuck. However, next time negotiate while looking so you are coming from a place of power. My hubby & I moved into together within a month of meeting. At the time I owned my own place so my expenses were set. He was making less then me so we did not contribute the same amount of $. Later when he made more then me he contributed more. We weren't married then. It is what is fair. If it is strictly roommate situation then that is different. If you love someone you should want to help financially so that everything is fair.

use2betrix

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2499
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #45 on: July 06, 2015, 03:11:12 PM »
Since you agreed to the split you are stuck. However, next time negotiate while looking so you are coming from a place of power. My hubby & I moved into together within a month of meeting. At the time I owned my own place so my expenses were set. He was making less then me so we did not contribute the same amount of $. Later when he made more then me he contributed more. We weren't married then. It is what is fair. If it is strictly roommate situation then that is different. If you love someone you should want to help financially so that everything is fair.

I agree with this. When my gf works (not always as we travel for my work) I make significantly more than her. Because of this, last time she worked, she gave me about 1/3 of her paycheck and I paid all the bills, food, phones, vehicles, etc. we occasionally split dinner or vacations.

I think with him making twice as much and his parents paying the rent he should EASILY be covering all the meals out that HE wants. Shouldn't even be a question.

If he's a grown adult and his parents are still paying his bills and he can't see any kind of issue here, I think there may be some type of entitlement/spoiled issues. I.e. He can't share.

birdie55

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 187
  • Location: Nor Cal
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #46 on: July 06, 2015, 03:31:03 PM »
I think you can start the conversation by telling your SO that you realize (retrospectively) you over committed your finances by agreeing to that amount of rent.  Then you can see how the conversation goes from there.  If he is not concerned about your finances now, you should plan on moving somewhere you can afford at the end of the summer. 

vagon

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 238
  • Location: Sydney
Re: SO makes 2x what I do, lifestyle conflict in how we spend
« Reply #47 on: July 06, 2015, 11:06:08 PM »
Why is SO a better cook? Why should that hinder you from learning to cook? Learn to cook and free yourself.

+1