Author Topic: Teachers and covid- I'm a teacher  (Read 6632 times)

charis

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Re: Teachers and covid- I'm a teacher
« Reply #50 on: December 08, 2020, 07:06:33 PM »
Schools are now shutdown where I live because so many teachers became sick with COVID-19 that they didn't have enough faculty to cover classes. That's really sad. I wish we hadn't put the teachers in that position. They do so much for the community and we showed very little caring for their well-being.

I'm n
Sure this is different everywhere. In our district we didn't have transmission at school. They did a good job of having small pods, distance, mask wearing, etc  Some teachers were pos but it was always linked to exposure outside of school. Thus closing schools (which they did in mid Nov) did not help case numbers.

Is your district seeing transmission at school?

Districts in my state are bending over backwards to say that teachers are not getting sick at school. This is especially evident in the carefully worded condolences shared for dead teachers.

It’s because the parents want child care and schools are the primary source for child care in the United States. If they schools aren’t having in person classes, then the parents have no one watching their kids for them. They are so desperate for child care that they put the entire community at risk for infection. It’s a really sad state of affairs.

I live in a place with very low community infection until the beginning of Nov and even now it's still low compared with the rest of the country. Many wealthier public schools have open for months with much lower infection rates than community even after being forced to test a large number of students and staff.  The poorest district with the most students of color did not open despite the majority in favor of returning. The argument that it's mostly white parents who wants the kids back in school is not necessarily true - they are just more likely get attention and be heard. Poor students of color are much more likely to be homeless or have their home lives destabilized by the pandemic.

The issue, as I've seen it, is that the district doesn't have enough money to keep students and teachers safe and everyone either knows it or doesn't trust that it can be done like it has in the suburbs (hiring more staff, adequate cleaning and sanitation, leasing more space for lower, spaced out classes, upgrading ventilation and new windows).

The teacher's union, primarily composed of white middle class teachers, many who live with their own kids in other districts, have been fighting tooth and nail to stay remote even when it's clear that not only are the students falling tremendously behind, many are just disappearing altogether.  I'm not saying they are wrong to be afraid of covid (I'm married to a teacher), but if teachers are going back in other districts without an increased risk of infection compared to general population, this argument starts to feel forced.


WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Teachers and covid- I'm a teacher
« Reply #51 on: December 09, 2020, 07:20:21 AM »
I just feel bad for teachers in the USA, because their well-being is not at all valued by most Americans. We keep schools open until they literally can't be open anymore due to huge numbers of teacher illnesses, when we have technology that -- while it isn't perfect -- would keep people safe. It's like we don't even care if teachers live or die as long as they serve. We treat them like they are McDonald's workers instead of highly educated trained professionals. If there are any teachers out there reading this, I just want you to know that I sympathize with you.

Omy

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Re: Teachers and covid- I'm a teacher
« Reply #52 on: December 09, 2020, 10:31:19 AM »
I have a sibling who works in the public school system. The school system sent out a newsletter suggesting that all teachers update their wills and life insurance prior to going back into the classroom this year.

Many public schools are overcrowded with horrible old hvac systems and windows that don't open and doors that are required to remain closed. Schools have always been a breeding ground for viruses, but covid is many times more contagious and deadly than the flu.

Buses are at capacity and incapable of keeping kids socially distanced. The only good answers require a lot of money being pumped into a system that has been underfunded for decades.

charis

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Re: Teachers and covid- I'm a teacher
« Reply #53 on: December 09, 2020, 10:45:23 AM »
I have a sibling who works in the public school system. The school system sent out a newsletter suggesting that all teachers update their wills and life insurance prior to going back into the classroom this year.

Many public schools are overcrowded with horrible old hvac systems and windows that don't open and doors that are required to remain closed. Schools have always been a breeding ground for viruses, but covid is many times more contagious and deadly than the flu.

Buses are at capacity and incapable of keeping kids socially distanced. The only good answers require a lot of money being pumped into a system that has been underfunded for decades.

This mainly applies to poor public schools, the "good" (ie wealthy) public districts were generally able to upgrade.  The equitable funding of all schools across a municipality is not going to solve all problems but it would help.  Why are people opposed to their school taxes being applied in a manner that raises the collective quality of all schools?

Cranky

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Re: Teachers and covid- I'm a teacher
« Reply #54 on: December 09, 2020, 11:43:59 AM »
Because property values are strongly tied to perceptions of school quality. People pay more for houses in a “good district” so the whole system disincentives sharing funding more equitably.

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Teachers and covid- I'm a teacher
« Reply #55 on: December 09, 2020, 11:55:24 AM »
I have a sibling who works in the public school system. The school system sent out a newsletter suggesting that all teachers update their wills and life insurance prior to going back into the classroom this year.

Many public schools are overcrowded with horrible old hvac systems and windows that don't open and doors that are required to remain closed. Schools have always been a breeding ground for viruses, but covid is many times more contagious and deadly than the flu.

Buses are at capacity and incapable of keeping kids socially distanced. The only good answers require a lot of money being pumped into a system that has been underfunded for decades.

This mainly applies to poor public schools, the "good" (ie wealthy) public districts were generally able to upgrade.  The equitable funding of all schools across a municipality is not going to solve all problems but it would help.  Why are people opposed to their school taxes being applied in a manner that raises the collective quality of all schools?

I don’t know where you live, but I live in a wealthy area with some of the top schools in the nation and the buildings are old and badly ventilated with no air conditioning systems and they just had to shut down the gym in one of our local schools because mercury was seeping up from the floors.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2020, 12:14:15 PM by WhiteTrashCash »

mm1970

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Re: Teachers and covid- I'm a teacher
« Reply #56 on: December 09, 2020, 12:55:52 PM »
Quote
I live in a place with very low community infection until the beginning of Nov and even now it's still low compared with the rest of the country. Many wealthier public schools have open for months with much lower infection rates than community even after being forced to test a large number of students and staff.  The poorest district with the most students of color did not open despite the majority in favor of returning. The argument that it's mostly white parents who wants the kids back in school is not necessarily true - they are just more likely get attention and be heard. Poor students of color are much more likely to be homeless or have their home lives destabilized by the pandemic.

The issue, as I've seen it, is that the district doesn't have enough money to keep students and teachers safe and everyone either knows it or doesn't trust that it can be done like it has in the suburbs (hiring more staff, adequate cleaning and sanitation, leasing more space for lower, spaced out classes, upgrading ventilation and new windows).

The teacher's union, primarily composed of white middle class teachers, many who live with their own kids in other districts, have been fighting tooth and nail to stay remote even when it's clear that not only are the students falling tremendously behind, many are just disappearing altogether.  I'm not saying they are wrong to be afraid of covid (I'm married to a teacher), but if teachers are going back in other districts without an increased risk of infection compared to general population, this argument starts to feel forced.
Wow, do you live where I live?

So many people saying how "it's either safe or it's not, why aren't the public schools open?  Why are these 5 schools open and why can they stay open when new schools can't?"

The schools that are open are small, and rich.  Public or private.  They have enough  money to have small classes and enough space to have outdoor space.  They can afford more cleaning, better ventilation, and more teachers.  If 20% of the families want to stay remote?  Fine.  Here, we'll hire another teacher.

The public schools have less money and orders of magnitude more students.  The private high school locally had, maybe, 30-35 students in last year's graduating class.  My 9th grader has 500 students in his grade, and at least 30 in every one of his 4 classes, with no student overlap.  There is not enough space to even go hybrid (half the class at a time) and maintain 6' distance.

The elementary schools often have 600 students, at least 30 per class in the upper grades.  If 20% of the students want to be remote, they literally would not be able to keep their teachers.  There's no money to hire extra teachers.  There have been job openings for more janitors and playground supervisors for months. 

It's hard to explain that it's not "either/or".  Safe or not safe.  It's a spectrum, and money is needed to make it safe.  At this point, even though it's predominantly the white folks wanting their kids back, I think the district should just figure out how to find the money to have the neediest 25% of students be at school and in person, and leave everyone else remote.

Cranky

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Re: Teachers and covid- I'm a teacher
« Reply #57 on: December 09, 2020, 01:08:11 PM »
Teacher retirements are WAY up this year.

charis

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Re: Teachers and covid- I'm a teacher
« Reply #58 on: December 09, 2020, 01:42:46 PM »
Because property values are strongly tied to perceptions of school quality. People pay more for houses in a “good district” so the whole system disincentives sharing funding more equitably.

Agreed. And parents frequently move to good school districts so their kids can get a better education than the kids in poor, less good districts.  It's a socially acceptable practice of segregation for the very purpose of resource hoarding that many so-called liberal/progressive people willingly participate in or refuse to reflect upon.

fuzzy math

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Re: Teachers and covid- I'm a teacher
« Reply #59 on: December 09, 2020, 03:43:42 PM »


I will also mention again that teachers are not given the same PPE as medical staff. My district provided one cloth mask and my state provided an additional cloth mask.

It is true that teachers know that students get sick. I purposely chose to teach at the high school level to avoid poop in the pants and snot bubbles. I also didn’t sign up to teach during a pandemic with inadequate protection. My dentist closed his office until he could obtain n95 masks for himself and staff. Why is unreasonable for teachers to have then same protection when working with students in person?

N95 masks are only recommended for the highest level of transmission situations. At the hospital, they are only suiting up for suspected or confirmed COVID. In the non ICU wards and outpatient clinics, care providers wear regular procedure masks, like the ones you can buy at SAMs club or Costco for a box of 50 priced under $10. I'm not going to argue whether your school should provide that. It would sure be nice if they did, but at the same time these masks aren't hard to find or overly expensive. Chances are you're probably already purchasing and wearing them to do every other task you're required to do in public.

Your dentist stocked up on N95, because they actively aerosolize patient's mouth secretions and respiratory gases during procedures, while putting their face approximately 8" from your gaping unmasked mouth.

Cranky

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Re: Teachers and covid- I'm a teacher
« Reply #60 on: December 09, 2020, 04:40:29 PM »
You’ve never worked in an elementary school, clearly. LOL

Dh’s university cheerfully gave everyone ONE cloth mask with the university logo on it. I dunno what its made of, but it’s some thin knit fabric. I have *forbidden* him from wearing it inside, because the close fitting three layer masks I make have to be better. I’ve also bought, out of pocket, face shields for him to wear.

And that’s why he’s retiring early.

fuzzy math

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Re: Teachers and covid- I'm a teacher
« Reply #61 on: December 10, 2020, 01:33:55 PM »
You’ve never worked in an elementary school, clearly. LOL

Dh’s university cheerfully gave everyone ONE cloth mask with the university logo on it. I dunno what its made of, but it’s some thin knit fabric. I have *forbidden* him from wearing it inside, because the close fitting three layer masks I make have to be better. I’ve also bought, out of pocket, face shields for him to wear.

And that’s why he’s retiring early.

Proximity is an issue in elementary schools, but (in the vast majority of schools) children are masked and (in all schools) no one is spraying water or pressurized air in the mouth for the purpose of care.


Cranky

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Re: Teachers and covid- I'm a teacher
« Reply #62 on: December 10, 2020, 01:42:15 PM »
I once sat at a little table in the hallway at the elementary school doing reading tutoring, and in a 2 hour period, 3 different kids threw up in that hallway.

I did not sign up to be a sub this fall. ;-)

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Teachers and covid- I'm a teacher
« Reply #63 on: December 10, 2020, 02:33:01 PM »
Working in an elementary school — with the amount of snot and sneezing and wiping hands on everything that goes on — is probably like walking into a lab and licking a random Petri dish. I think people who have no children — or haven’t spent much time around children — probably have difficulty understanding this. For those with children, you can imagine having about 500 of them in a confined space doing the things your kids do on a regular basis.

Cranky

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Re: Teachers and covid- I'm a teacher
« Reply #64 on: December 10, 2020, 03:45:40 PM »
And I think young kids are proving to be very much more adaptable and compliant than a lot of people expected. My 4yo grandson just expects to wear a mask and wash his hands.

But the schools here open and close and open and close...

There are loads of ways to make them relatively safe, and I think schools should be prioritized over bars, but that’s not the way the money flows.

freedomfightergal

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Re: Teachers and covid- I'm a teacher
« Reply #65 on: December 10, 2020, 04:41:17 PM »
It reinforces the fact that the zip code you grow up in is a major determining factor for your overall life success.  Why in the world does a first-world country fund the public education of their children from local property taxes?  A pandemic should mean that all available resources are used for all; instead, we are watching the poor school districts become even more fragile and stressed, and the rich school districts easily pivot and continue to thrive. 

The pandemic has taught me that Americans are essentially people whose values do not support any sort of cooperative effort or shared sacrifice. We also don't care about each other. We are literally the type of people who are fine with a million of our fellow citizens dying so long as our bars and restaurants don't close, or our 401k's decline. This has been demonstrated.

The US's reaction to the pandemic explains something about why we can't pursue the sort of shared goals required for national greatness. The people who were unwilling to wear masks or restrict holiday travel to save each others' lives are not the sort of people who would champion universal access to high-quality education, even though doing so would launch the US economy and culture into the stratosphere within a couple of decades. There are many more examples of projects we could undertake to "make America great" but we cannot seem to get past the cost. If we paid the taxes required for world-class schools, hyper-efficient infrastructure, a functional criminal justice / addiction rehab system, or a working healthcare system, we might have to give up spare bedrooms, luxury SUVs or vanity commuter trucks, lawn care services, and garages full of stuff. These manufactured things define our identity and give our lives meaning.

In the end, our national ethic is consumerism and selfishness, and that leads to certain results. We've internalized the messaging of a billion ads; happiness and goodness are the consumption of as much as possible.

To find some sort of national/collective solidarity, you'd have to go someplace like China, Japan, or South Korea (places that are solving their problems and beating COVID).

This resonated so much with me.  I totally agree.  I spend so much of my time pissed off with the US now.   I feel really bad for the teachers forced to go back to schools while the Covid numbers rage on.  Luckily my kids had the option of schooling from home, but the school & some teachers keep putting pressure on them to come back - while the numbers are growing!

My family in Australia are back to pretty much normal.  They took the Pandemic seriously & quashed it!  They have fast contact tracing and "circuit breaker" strategies anytime a new case pops up that stops it.

The Moron Apocalypse that is the USA has led to a wildfire of a Pandemic, 70Million not even believing it's serious, refusing to wear a mask, mocking those that do etc.  You have a system that enslaves people to a job just to get healthcare (if you're lucky), and even with that healthcare Insurance, you still will be out of pocket or bankrupt.  I just went through the end of year palaver of choosing a new Health Ins Policy, need to check if my Dr will take it etc - what a total load of insane bullshit!!  I am so sick of it!  You never know what's going to happen the next year.  In Australia, you just pay your taxes (which end up less than US when totally calculated), and get treated whenever you need to, no bill shock or bankruptcy fear and in my experience a hell of a lot better.  Yet bloody people keep voting against a better system!  There's some really sleazy propaganda that's been lapped up by the morons that keep voting like total suckers.  I really can't wait till I can leave here and never look back.

My sympathies for the teachers forced to work because this country doesn't value lives & it doesn't value stay at home parenting, or parenting in general.  Kids are born to be slapped into care then shorted with stressed out over worked parents.    I've seen my kids do a lot better with a parent at home taking care of them, instead of a nanny or childcare.  if the hubs suggested I go back to work, I ask why, so we can get a nicer care, better wine etc.  We have all we need & I value raising my kids myself.

fuzzy math

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Re: Teachers and covid- I'm a teacher
« Reply #66 on: December 10, 2020, 04:57:20 PM »
I once sat at a little table in the hallway at the elementary school doing reading tutoring, and in a 2 hour period, 3 different kids threw up in that hallway.

I did not sign up to be a sub this fall. ;-)

Yeah I am not a fan of vomit, and I have a kid that vomits when he sees or smells the wrong thing. So no doubt he would have added to those numbers.

charis

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Re: Teachers and covid- I'm a teacher
« Reply #67 on: December 10, 2020, 06:49:25 PM »
I've seen my kids do a lot better with a parent at home taking care of them, instead of a nanny or childcare.  if the hubs suggested I go back to work, I ask why, so we can get a nicer care, better wine etc.  We have all we need & I value raising my kids myself.

Wow

hal

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Re: Teachers and covid- I'm a teacher
« Reply #68 on: December 13, 2020, 07:45:22 AM »


I totally understand the need for kids to be in school, I really do. It just seems we are forcing this right now to make things work for the families while saying F you to the teachers with families. Doctors/Nurses have always worked with sick people, but teachers right now essentially have a walking dead mob of children all over them all day with sniffles and coughs.


This comes off as incredibly naive and privileged. You think all doctors and nurses specifically signed up to be around sick patients and therefore shouldn't have any rights, but you should?
Sure, infectious disease doctors have a higher chance of getting ill. I work with a specific subset of surgical patients. It was never discussed with me in my training that I'd be around SARS, Ebola or anything similar (although I did learn about blood borne precautions, just as I'm sure you did too as a teacher). I'm guessing that dermatology or kidney physicians, dentists, ophthalmologists and others never envisioned working with infectious people during a pandemic either.

However, absolutely no one escaped their teaching studies without knowing that children frequently get sick at school, they vomit in the classroom, poop their pants, sneeze on the pencil sharpener, share food with another kid while they actively have snot streaming down their face after recess, can't recognize / communicate when they have a fever etc and tend to go home ill. I'm sure every one of us here has a classmate vomiting story. That's why parents have had to send in kleenex, hand sanitizer and chlorox wipes into classrooms for years pre-covid.  So lets not pretend its 100% medical professionals signed up for this shit and 100% teachers did not sign up for this shit.

Schools do not provide the same PPE as hospitals. Classrooms are not designed to provide negative room pressure, which in many cases is providing additional protection for front line health workers. I sort of get your point as it relates to dermatologists, kidney physicians etc. But those doctors are not seeing 25+ people simultaneously all day in one room (elementary) or 5 groups of 25+ (my former high school situation), nor having them eat their lunch in their office, and so on.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2020, 07:47:08 AM by hal »

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Teachers and covid- I'm a teacher
« Reply #69 on: December 13, 2020, 01:47:44 PM »
So few people go into teaching these days in college and this pandemic situation is going to add to the decline. There are very few reasons to teach other than wanting to do a good deed. And people can always volunteer at their local food pantry if they want to do that. Teacher pay is lousy, the benefits are being reduced all the time, the work conditions are terrible, the respect is nonexistent, the retirement plans are bankrupt, plus teachers are expected to be willing to die in a hail of gunfire at any moment. It’s just a terrible deal. College students are much better off going into an easier job that pays more like being a stock broker or computer programmer.

Cranky

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Re: Teachers and covid- I'm a teacher
« Reply #70 on: December 13, 2020, 07:30:32 PM »
I’m so glad I’m retired, and yet I miss teaching so so so much. I just loved it. And I feel bad that so many families want a better educational experience for their kids right now, and it just doesn’t feel safe.

fuzzy math

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Re: Teachers and covid- I'm a teacher
« Reply #71 on: December 14, 2020, 06:24:45 PM »

Schools do not provide the same PPE as hospitals. Classrooms are not designed to provide negative room pressure, which in many cases is providing additional protection for front line health workers. I sort of get your point as it relates to dermatologists, kidney physicians etc. But those doctors are not seeing 25+ people simultaneously all day in one room (elementary) or 5 groups of 25+ (my former high school situation), nor having them eat their lunch in their office, and so on.

We have 50 something COVID patients currently hospitalized, and there's 1 negative pressure room in the COVID ICU. This is not abnormal. Now schools definitely do need to improve their air handling systems, I'm not sure if them functioning at 100% (high air turnover) that they'd be equivalent to a normal ICU room (not negative pressure). I just want to clear up any misconception that hospitals have lots of negative pressure rooms and therefore healthcare workers are not exposed. You should see my break room full of people eating btw (social distancing signs say 11 people, but its easily 20+ because we have 120 people). Doctors on clinic days do easily see 25 patients, each in a 8 x 8 room, and they get all up in their patient's personal space to do exams. I do understand your point about occupancy. I'm assuming that your former school offered virtual and that lightened the class loads to some degree too. This isn't meant to be a "who has it worse" contest, its meant to point out that school situations are not unique, and not uniquely worse.


windytrail

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Re: Teachers and covid- I'm a teacher
« Reply #72 on: December 14, 2020, 06:47:46 PM »
This resonated so much with me.  I totally agree.  I spend so much of my time pissed off with the US now.   I feel really bad for the teachers forced to go back to schools while the Covid numbers rage on.  Luckily my kids had the option of schooling from home, but the school & some teachers keep putting pressure on them to come back - while the numbers are growing!
Interesting how different things are depending on which region in the US you live. Here, the situation is reversed: teachers are prioritized over students, which means that the vast majority of public schools remained closed. In fact, teachers (through their union) are demanding to be prioritized in the front of the line for the vaccine (after healthcare workers), despite the fact that the schools remain closed. (https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/California-teachers-push-to-be-near-front-of-15798776.php).

It's easy to predict that the union will hold hostage the reopening of schools until all teachers are vaccinated. Do teachers working remotely deserve to be ahead of grocery store employees and bus drivers who are actually, not hypothetically, interacting with the public?
« Last Edit: December 14, 2020, 06:50:29 PM by windytrail »

ChpBstrd

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Re: Teachers and covid- I'm a teacher
« Reply #73 on: December 14, 2020, 08:36:27 PM »
This resonated so much with me.  I totally agree.  I spend so much of my time pissed off with the US now.   I feel really bad for the teachers forced to go back to schools while the Covid numbers rage on.  Luckily my kids had the option of schooling from home, but the school & some teachers keep putting pressure on them to come back - while the numbers are growing!
Interesting how different things are depending on which region in the US you live. Here, the situation is reversed: teachers are prioritized over students, which means that the vast majority of public schools remained closed. In fact, teachers (through their union) are demanding to be prioritized in the front of the line for the vaccine (after healthcare workers), despite the fact that the schools remain closed. (https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/California-teachers-push-to-be-near-front-of-15798776.php).

It's easy to predict that the union will hold hostage the reopening of schools until all teachers are vaccinated. Do teachers working remotely deserve to be ahead of grocery store employees and bus drivers who are actually, not hypothetically, interacting with the public?

The operative wording is highlighted.
Organize: have power.
Not Organize: sent to front lines without a mask.