Author Topic: Take new job or accept counter offer?  (Read 10235 times)

livetogive

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Take new job or accept counter offer?
« on: October 23, 2013, 12:58:54 PM »
I have an offer for a firm that I think I'll love in a completely different industry but for 20% less than I make now.   My current firm,  a bank,  countered with an offer for a new role and 50% more,  but it's a miserable place to work.   The new job could accelerate FIRE to 10 years from now but I'm worried it might ruin my pending marriage and it would make it difficult to switch industries later.

Risk a little job  unsatisfaction to reduce fire by 6-8 years?

MsSindy

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Re: Take new job or accept counter offer?
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2013, 01:36:28 PM »
Clearly the right answer is to save your marriage - a divorce will cost you way more than you would probably earn!

In all seriousness, if you were only a couple years away from FIRE, I would suggest to stick out the high-paying job (that's what I've chosen to do), but you are still a ways off and you'll want to have a happy life in the meantime.  See if you have any negotiating room with the new offer - let them know that you've been offered 50% more and you're seriously considering it, but would rather work for their company, but you know, it's 50%!  They'll see that you're caught between a difficult decision and that you're just not out to be greedy.  OR see if you can negotiate for some other perk, like an additional week of vacation.

Russ

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Re: Take new job or accept counter offer?
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2013, 01:50:01 PM »
10 years is a long time to sell your soul...

MilStachian

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Re: Take new job or accept counter offer?
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2013, 03:07:48 PM »
TurboLT,
Just to be clear; if you hop to the new job you'll be FIRE in 10 years, but if you stick with your new job and take the raise you'll be FIRE in 2-4 years?

I think I'd take the money and run as long as you're serious about early retirement.

Russ

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Re: Take new job or accept counter offer?
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2013, 03:10:22 PM »
TurboLT,
Just to be clear; if you hop to the new job you'll be FIRE in 10 years, but if you stick with your new job and take the raise you'll be FIRE in 2-4 years?

I think I'd take the money and run as long as you're serious about early retirement.

I understood it as high-paying job: 10 years, low-paying job: 16-18 years

although in hindsight that longer timeframe seems really long for ER, so I can see where you're coming from

livetogive

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Re: Take new job or accept counter offer?
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2013, 04:38:23 PM »
Yes,  high paying 10 years,  otherwise ER in 16 very conservatively.

We're still paying down $150k in student loans,  although our balance is now 115.

The suggested link above was great!  The high paying job offers everything except relatedness,  and could never offer that.  I'd be travelling 75% of the time and the exit opportunities would be minimal.  In the lower paying job I won't feel like Crap every morning when I go to work and eventually I'll probably work up to what I make now.  I hate giving up all those working years and the potential  to make $500k a year in 8-10 years (which would probably be close to instant fire after 2 years or so)  but it is at the cost of soul.

Mega

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Re: Take new job or accept counter offer?
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2013, 04:48:29 PM »
Well, the one thing I would like to add is a new roie in the organization can make a very big difference in terms of job satisfaction. Does the new role look like this is the case?

I would definitely counter the new job offer with an ask for the same pay you get now.

Numbers Man

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Re: Take new job or accept counter offer?
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2013, 04:59:14 PM »
I'm puzzled as to why you're of all a sudden with 50% more valuable to your current employer. Usually a counter offer is made because they haven't found a replacement for you yet. Get a severance agreement in place before you take the counter offer. And if it really is a promotion, maybe you won't be miserable in your new role.

dadof4

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Re: Take new job or accept counter offer?
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2013, 05:04:03 PM »
I'd be travelling 75% of the time ...
For me, that would be a deal breaker (unless my family couldn't survive otherwise). You are right to fear for your marriage, though others have done it and gotten through.

You'll have to decide where your priorities are. For me, family is everything.

In the lower paying job I won't feel like Crap every morning when I go to work and eventually I'll probably work up to what I make now.
6-8 years of work you actually like isn't that bad.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2013, 05:28:10 PM by dadof4 »

livetogive

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Re: Take new job or accept counter offer?
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2013, 05:09:05 PM »
I'm puzzled by that too.  I repeatedly asked for this role that they're now "giving" me but they blew me off like a bad dream.   I asked for minor promotions or bumps all the time and nothing but a stone wall and some empty promises. 

Now that I'm actually walking out the door they all of a sudden care.   I'm not even sure I'd want the role I kept asking for at this point and I certainly don't trust them to follow through.   Im flattered they counter offered but can't shake the feeling they just don't ever want to have the lower hand in anything.  Like they'd rather pay me more than have an unexpected resignation because they're the greatest place ever,  blah blah blah.  It's all banker ego.

There's always the very real possibility of them paying me more then replacing me.

footenote

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Re: Take new job or accept counter offer?
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2013, 05:35:15 PM »
I'm puzzled by that too.  I repeatedly asked for this role that they're now "giving" me but they blew me off like a bad dream.   I asked for minor promotions or bumps all the time and nothing but a stone wall and some empty promises. 

Now that I'm actually walking out the door they all of a sudden care.   I'm not even sure I'd want the role I kept asking for at this point and I certainly don't trust them to follow through.   Im flattered they counter offered but can't shake the feeling they just don't ever want to have the lower hand in anything.  Like they'd rather pay me more than have an unexpected resignation because they're the greatest place ever,  blah blah blah.  It's all banker ego.

There's always the very real possibility of them paying me more then replacing me.
Walk.

Financial Threedom

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Re: Take new job or accept counter offer?
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2013, 06:10:03 PM »
I'm puzzled by that too.  I repeatedly asked for this role that they're now "giving" me but they blew me off like a bad dream.   I asked for minor promotions or bumps all the time and nothing but a stone wall and some empty promises. 

Now that I'm actually walking out the door they all of a sudden care.   I'm not even sure I'd want the role I kept asking for at this point and I certainly don't trust them to follow through.   Im flattered they counter offered but can't shake the feeling they just don't ever want to have the lower hand in anything.  Like they'd rather pay me more than have an unexpected resignation because they're the greatest place ever,  blah blah blah.  It's all banker ego.

There's always the very real possibility of them paying me more then replacing me.

That is the way it goes in the banking business.  The only way to get a raise is to change banks/threaten to leave.  I was given a miniscule raise one year at the bank I worked for, then about 6 weeks latter another job offer came in, and all of a sudden they were asking if more money would keep me around.  I took the new job offer because it was a huge raise, and I had wanted out of the bank for at least a year at that point anyhow.    My experience is that you are likely going to be treated the same in the new position with your current employer.  If you can hack it for 10 more years, go for it, otherwise I say take the new job. 

Kristin

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Re: Take new job or accept counter offer?
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2013, 06:22:56 PM »
You may be taking a 20% hit now, but what is the growth rate in that new position?  Your bank may be offering you a 50% increase now, but they may not provide a raise for years to come.  I have seen that happen quite a bit in the financial industry.
I work in insurance and risk management and I recently had to make a similar choice.  Either take the job I've been waiting for as a lateral move (but with better retirement package) and greater rate of salary/bonus growth; or stay at my current position (which I hated) for a 15% increase.
I chose the new position and it is absolutely the best career move I have ever made.  I'm excited about it, my new co-workers are excited to have me on board, and I know that I will do well because I am 150% invested and interested in the work that I'm doing.
Also, I can see myself working in that position until I retire.  I believe that it will be my professional home until I'm done.  That is truly worth the short-term sacrifice of salary dollars.

Good luck!

chasesfish

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Re: Take new job or accept counter offer?
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2013, 06:31:53 PM »
You need to run, not walk away from the management you work for.

If it took a resignation to get what you had already asked for and apparently earned, just politely tell them that had they done this a week earlier, you would not have resigned, but you have already committed to the new employer and your integrity and keeping your word is important.

I've had managers like this before, and I would run.  The good ones tell you that you're valued here, fairly paid, and ask you to reconsider. No counter offer.

livetogive

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Re: Take new job or accept counter offer?
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2013, 09:16:29 PM »
Thanks everyone!  I have a meeting with my boss's boss tomorrow and possibly the president of the division so now I'm more convinced than ever that this isn't legit.  I'm gonna stick to my word and give them the meetings tomorrow morning then hand in my resignation.

It's tough to walk away from that much earnings potential and I doubt I'll ever get there in the new path  but that's certainly not needed to achieve fire anyway.  Here's to walking into an office and seeing at least one nice person who likes you and who you'd voluntarily hang out with outside of work!

ShortInSeattle

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Re: Take new job or accept counter offer?
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2013, 09:29:36 PM »
Good luck! I similarly quit a lucrative job to be happier.

Happier is better. And sometimes, the money comes back. :)

lhamo

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Re: Take new job or accept counter offer?
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2013, 10:39:24 PM »
I work in the non-profit sector so I'm never going to make huge banker money.  But I have a relevant story that might help with your decision.

6.5 years ago I left a job that was literally destroying me emotionally and physically.

Got an offer for a new job that was below my level/capacity, and a 20% paycut in comparison to old job.

Took new job.  Rocked it.  Got decent raises and eventually am now back up to where I was before salary/benefits wise (actually a little higher because I now get a 10% 403b employer contribution).

Saved thousands, probably tens of thousands, of dollars on psych care that I would have needed if I stayed in the old job (plus most likely divorce costs, as I don't think my marriage would have survived a more extended period of depression than what I went through)

Recently asked to take over for my boss, and potentially in line for a further promotion beyond that.  If i can negotiate at least the same package my boss had, I will be basically doubling my pay/benefits.   I might not be able to get that much, but I'm going to try -- already have the market research to show how underpaid I currently am.

Take the lower paying job.  Your sanity, health, and your relationships are not worth sacrificing for just money.  If you would enjoy the work and not have to suffer in so many ways, maybe, but not given the way you describe it. 

I also would bet that while they are offering you more money now, that might mean you were first on the line for layoffs down the road if things get tight financially.  They could just sack you and bring in someone younger, less experienced, and cheaper.

livetogive

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Re: Take new job or accept counter offer?
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2013, 11:01:08 PM »
Again,  thank you!  I'm drooling over a 10% match lol.

What's funny is I am/was the younger cheaper guy brought in only 3 short years ago. Rocked it,  asked for more responsibility or a salary more in line with market and was denied both. Then had the nerve to ask for something so simple as an office (while 5 sat vacant next to my cube)  so I could speak with investors without conversation about someone's weekend going on in the background.  Denied again lol.

It's insane to me how easily they could retain people just by being human beings,  yet they choose not to.

Looking back I remember my boss telling his high school son that I was his b**** as he toured the office.  I mean why dude?  Makes no sense to me

Stache In Training

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Re: Take new job or accept counter offer?
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2013, 11:22:50 PM »
I'd walk, definitely.  But first, depending on how ballsy you want to be, don't say no right away in these meetings tomorrow.  make them sound like you have some interest in staying, but will have to think about it more, now that you've had these meetings.  get their counter offer in writing.  Then see if the new place can come up a bit.  Say you want to work for them, and they don't even have to match this offer.  It's just showing that someone thinks you are worth X amount.  The new place is probably low-balling anyway, and has some wiggle room. Everyone always try's to get the best for less.

That will solve your problem.  More money (or less of a cut) and a happier place!

chasesfish

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Re: Take new job or accept counter offer?
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2013, 04:31:32 AM »

It's insane to me how easily they could retain people just by being human beings,  yet they choose not to.

Looking back I remember my boss telling his high school son that I was his b**** as he toured the office.  I mean why dude?  Makes no sense to me

Wow...I can't believe this is even a choice.  Life is too short to put up with people like this. 

If you like banking, there are good people and lower stress positions that exist out there (for less money too)

jrhampt

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Re: Take new job or accept counter offer?
« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2013, 07:24:07 AM »
I'd walk, definitely.  But first, depending on how ballsy you want to be, don't say no right away in these meetings tomorrow.  make them sound like you have some interest in staying, but will have to think about it more, now that you've had these meetings.  get their counter offer in writing.  Then see if the new place can come up a bit.  Say you want to work for them, and they don't even have to match this offer.  It's just showing that someone thinks you are worth X amount.  The new place is probably low-balling anyway, and has some wiggle room. Everyone always try's to get the best for less.

That will solve your problem.  More money (or less of a cut) and a happier place!

I would also absolutely try to leverage their counter offer into a higher salary at the new place.

RMD

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Re: Take new job or accept counter offer?
« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2013, 08:18:11 AM »
Advice I was given a long time ago was to never accept a counter offer.  It will work short term, but they know you are unhappy and have your foot out the door.  A level of trust has been broken, if you will.  Short term it will serve you, long term you end up being treated worse than before. 

Go through the motions, use the counter for leverage if you feel it will help you, but don't accept it.

jrhampt

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Re: Take new job or accept counter offer?
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2013, 10:43:06 AM »
Advice I was given a long time ago was to never accept a counter offer.  It will work short term, but they know you are unhappy and have your foot out the door.  A level of trust has been broken, if you will.  Short term it will serve you, long term you end up being treated worse than before. 

I have also heard this advice from several sources, but I disagree that this holds in all cases (although it may apply in this particular case).  I accepted a counter-offer 2.5 years ago and am still with my company.  I wasn't particularly unhappy with my job and I had a good relationship with my boss, but I was being paid well below market and being heavily recruited by other companies at the same time.  So I had a better offer elsewhere but chose to give my company a chance to entice me to stay.  I was prepared to leave, but it worked out better for me to stay.  Since then I have gone on to win awards, raises, very generous bonuses, and generally feel valued and well-treated.  The key, I think, is to be a valued high performer that the company wants to retain.  And to realize that there is no such thing as "trust" between an employee and a corporation.  They will employ you when it is to their advantage and lay you off when it ceases to be to their advantage.  You should realize this and behave accordingly.

footenote

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Re: Take new job or accept counter offer?
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2013, 11:11:01 AM »
Advice I was given a long time ago was to never accept a counter offer.  It will work short term, but they know you are unhappy and have your foot out the door.  A level of trust has been broken, if you will.  Short term it will serve you, long term you end up being treated worse than before. 

I have also heard this advice from several sources, but I disagree that this holds in all cases (although it may apply in this particular case).  I accepted a counter-offer 2.5 years ago and am still with my company.  I wasn't particularly unhappy with my job and I had a good relationship with my boss, but I was being paid well below market and being heavily recruited by other companies at the same time.  So I had a better offer elsewhere but chose to give my company a chance to entice me to stay.  I was prepared to leave, but it worked out better for me to stay.  Since then I have gone on to win awards, raises, very generous bonuses, and generally feel valued and well-treated.  The key, I think, is to be a valued high performer that the company wants to retain.  And to realize that there is no such thing as "trust" between an employee and a corporation.  They will employ you when it is to their advantage and lay you off when it ceases to be to their advantage.  You should realize this and behave accordingly.
My late father was an HR manager. His philosophy on counter offers: "If you're worth so much more today, why weren't you worth that yesterday?"

Well-run companies don't wait for the marketplace to jolt them into paying a valued employee his worth on the open market.  I repeat: Walk.

oldtoyota

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Re: Take new job or accept counter offer?
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2013, 11:39:00 AM »
Nothing but nothing will ruin your net worth more than a bad marriage ending in a divorce. And nothing, but nothing will ruin your life more than a bad marriage that doesn't end.

How about a bad marriage ending in divorce and then ending in job loss because they sack you after they find your replacement?

I would take the other job unless you trust them.


livetogive

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Re: Take new job or accept counter offer?
« Reply #25 on: October 24, 2013, 01:41:42 PM »
Just took the other job.

RMD

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Re: Take new job or accept counter offer?
« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2013, 01:54:06 PM »

chasesfish

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Re: Take new job or accept counter offer?
« Reply #27 on: October 24, 2013, 06:34:22 PM »
Congratulations!

footenote

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Re: Take new job or accept counter offer?
« Reply #28 on: October 25, 2013, 06:04:24 AM »

ender

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Re: Take new job or accept counter offer?
« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2013, 06:27:11 AM »
Almost always, the issues which cause people to start seeking other jobs don't go away with more money.

More money masks them some, but at the end of the day if you are seriously enough considering looking for a new position at a different company it's incredibly unlikely you will remain satisfied at your current employer.

oldtoyota

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Re: Take new job or accept counter offer?
« Reply #30 on: October 25, 2013, 06:50:10 AM »
Congratulations!