Author Topic: Sunscreen, or other skin protection, that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.  (Read 25104 times)

MayDay

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4953
We are outside constantly in the summer, and I try to be really diligent about applying sunscreen.  For myself plus two kids, that means we go through it fast.  I also try to pay attention to the Environmantel Working Group's rating of the safety of various sunscreen ingredients, which means I don't buy the cheapest vat they sell at Walmart. 

The kids and myself have long sleeved swim shirts which helps at the pool.  I have considered getting one of the long sleeved sun shirts they sell at REI, but not sure if the cost is worth it (if I have one sun shirt, and get it dirty gardening, it will be three days before it is washed and dried, so in the mean time I will still need sunscreen).  We wear sun hats outside as much as possible, but still need face sunscreen when biking.

Has anyone found a bargains on sunscreen that won't give me cancer? 

Somewhat related question, does anyone use a daily moisturizer with sunscreen on their face?  I still, at age 31, get tons of zits, so I don't like to slather regular sunscreen on my face every day.  But the fancy face creams with sunscreen are super expensive.  And again, I worry about smearing carcinogens all over myself. 

GuitarStv

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 23128
  • Age: 42
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
No bargains that I've found.  Most easily available and cheap sunscreens are carcinogenic.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18022535 - 17 of 18 studies on the matter concluded that “there was no statistically significant effect of use of sunscreens on risk of melanoma." . . . which seems pretty damning on sunscreen use altogether.

kimmarg

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 750
  • Location: Northern New England
We are outside constantly in the summer, and I try to be really diligent about applying sunscreen.  For myself plus two kids, that means we go through it fast.  I also try to pay attention to the Environmantel Working Group's rating of the safety of various sunscreen ingredients, which means I don't buy the cheapest vat they sell at Walmart. 

The kids and myself have long sleeved swim shirts which helps at the pool.  I have considered getting one of the long sleeved sun shirts they sell at REI, but not sure if the cost is worth it (if I have one sun shirt, and get it dirty gardening, it will be three days before it is washed and dried, so in the mean time I will still need sunscreen).  We wear sun hats outside as much as possible, but still need face sunscreen when biking.

Has anyone found a bargains on sunscreen that won't give me cancer? 

Somewhat related question, does anyone use a daily moisturizer with sunscreen on their face?  I still, at age 31, get tons of zits, so I don't like to slather regular sunscreen on my face every day.  But the fancy face creams with sunscreen are super expensive.  And again, I worry about smearing carcinogens all over myself.

I do use the fancy daily moisturizer sunscreen from nutregena. I find a little goes a long way so while it is pricy I don't actually go through it that quick. Plus unlike cheap sunscreen it does not give you an oily yucky face. I use that every day and then get out the tube of goo for beach, etc.

NeverWasACornflakeGirl

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 229
    • Mommy Won't Work
I get burned just walking outside, and I have a family history of skin cancer, so I hear what you're saying!

I try to wear a hat with a large brim any time I'm outside, and I make my daughter wear one, too.

I have not tried them yet, but the long- and 3/4-sleeve sun/swim shirts from LLBean are reasonably priced.  I don't know how they compare to REI. 

I use a facial moisturizer from Neutragena with SPF 15 sunscreen.  It's not pricey, it doesn't make my face oily, and it gets the job done if I'm not out for too long and if I'm wearing a hat.  I don't know if it contains the kind of sunscreen you object to, though.

Would love to hear whatever other solutions you find!

MountainFlower

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 282
  • Location: Colorado Mountains
I just got a really nice O'Neill swim shirt at the thrift store for cheap.  Maybe check thrift stores to pick up more.

I use natural sunscreen on the kids and got lucky last year when they had it on clearance at the grocery store.  I bought as much as I thought we might use before expiration. 

Is neutrogena sunscreen cancer causing?  They sell it in multi-packs at Costco. 

I've had skin cancer removed from my face, but I think it goes back to a second degree sunburn I got skiing as a teenager.  I am very fair skinned, but even so, I wonder if regular non-burning sun exposure is really as bad as they want us to think.  I'm still cautious, but I don't worry about going outside for periods of time without sunscreen if I'm wearing a hat. 

catccc

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1906
  • Location: SE PA
Costco usually sells multi-packs of neutrogena sunscreen (rated moderate by EWG's database.)  that are reasonably priced, and they usually have coupons for them early in the season.

I've heard coconut oil and shea butter are "natural" alternatives to commercial sunscreen, and I've seen lots of recipes that include these as ingredients in homemade sunscreen, usually along with powdered zinc oxide... but I haven't tested them for efficacy personally.

I have seen powdered, brush-on sunscreens, that might work for your face.  I used to use it on my kids' heads (infants with wispy hair and lots of exposed scalp) when the didn't wear hats.

catccc

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1906
  • Location: SE PA
oh, and if you end up getting some zinc oxide, go with non-nano.  There's a bit of controversy over the safety of nano-particles, apparently.

La Bibliotecaria Feroz

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7124
We use Babyganic sunscreen--you can buy it in the baby aisle at Target, for instance. It's cheaper than other mineral sunscreens. It's hard to rub in, of course. Another that's not too expensive is Episcentuals (sp?) Sunny Sunscreen, which you can order from Amazon.

The least expensive mineral facial moisturizer I've been able to find is the Avalon Organics vitamin C stuff.

DoubleDown

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2075
I think putting sunscreen on is a pain in the ass, expensive, and not particularly effective. It's too easy to miss spots (scalp? tops and back of ears? tops of feet? right around eyes and eyelids?).

I've had several bouts of skin cancer (due to outrageous sun exposure as a kid), and I think avoidance of the sun is just the easiest and most effective. I still go outdoors a lot, but I stay in the shade wherever I can, wear clothing and hats to protect my skin, and plan activities for times when the sun is not as intense. I only wear sunscreen when I'm in the water and exposed. I've even carried and used an umbrella on high UV days when I'm at places where I might not have access to shade, and I'm a dude. I've never given a fuck if anyone thinks it's weird, but no one has ever overtly made notice of it.

Just cover up with clothing/hats and keep everyone in shade where possible, use sunscreen as a backup. It's really easy to find shade from trees, buildings, beach umbrellas. Kids don't need to run around with skin exposed during peak sun hours, and they can still have fun. I think it's a good lesson for them to learn about staying healthy and safe by avoiding excessive exposure. They don't need to be in the pool for three solid hours between 11 and 2. I'm not particularly grateful to my mom for letting me get sunburned at least 50 times and now dealing with the aftermath, and my kids have never been kept from doing things they want outside. We just do it in moderation and in safer ways.

plantingourpennies

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 443
  • None.
    • Money, Kittens, Happiness
I'm really fair and go through plenty of sunscreen in the summer and other seasons living in FL.  I find that Neutrogena stuff works well and my dermatologists have always said that's on their list of "ok" products. 

As for acne, as another 31 year old who struggled with worsening acne throughout my 20s and into my 30s, the best thing I've been able to do for that is go off hormonal birth control (this is Mrs PoP, obvs.).  I did that a few months ago and slowly but surely my acne is going away.  YMMV. 

prefrontalfinance

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 48
  • Age: 34
No bargains that I've found.  Most easily available and cheap sunscreens are carcinogenic.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18022535 - 17 of 18 studies on the matter concluded that “there was no statistically significant effect of use of sunscreens on risk of melanoma." . . . which seems pretty damning on sunscreen use altogether.

I think your summary of their analysis is a little off. First, they only analyzed 17 of the 18 studies - the 18th was thrown out because it didn't meet criteria for inclusion (probably because it was older and/or had poor control groups, common reasons in these sorts of meta-analyeses - ok found full text, it was because it was on 'suntan lotion/sun lotion' and not sunscreen specific). The way you summarized made it sound like 17 were in a agreement and the 18th wasn't - while in fact, the 18th wasn't included, and the 17 probably had some mixture of findings.

They also say they found an interaction between latitude and sunscreen - Which means that the odds ratio (relative probability) of sunscreen use/melanoma was different depending on how far you live from the equator. If you lived far from the equator, and you developed melanoma, you were more 1.6 times as likely to be a user of sunscreens compared to people who didn't develop the disease. If you lived close to the equator, and developed melanoma, you were (non-significantly) only 0.7 times as likely to be a user of sunscreen. I know they didn't distinguish the significance in the abstract, but the full text specifies that only the first finding was significant.

I could write up more from the full text if you are interested, but basically, don't toss the sunscreen yet. A quote from the discussion section:

"There is no controversy regarding whether sunscreens reduce the incidence or progression of actinic keratosis 50 and 51 and that broad-spectrum sunscreens applied using the FDA standard 2 micron layer thickness, can reduce incidence rates of squamous cell carcinoma (52). However, this does not appear to be true for the more common basal cell carcinoma, which occurs in the deepest (basal) layer of the epidermis (53), the same anatomical location as the melanocytes, where melanoma occurs".

There's still some skin health benefits and cancer protection - just maybe not against melanoma.

Dee18

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2209
Doubledown- I am with you. My mother actually would send me out to "get some sun."  Right now I am in my second treatment for actinic keratosis on my nose.  I also was a avid cyclist and sunscreen just sweated right off my nose! I now wear hats and sunproof shirts.  My favorites are from Solumbra, expensive but worth it as each lasts  for many years and the shirts are comfy...unlike most brands I have tried.  I did just buy SPF 30 Mavic bike jerseys from backcountry.com, on sale for $28.  Love them and may wear one hiking over a tank top as it zips all the way open.

lazysundays

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 26
I just bought $45 work of sunscreen for my babies.  Neutrogenia for baby for my sensitive skin toddler and baby. Even with sale and coupons, that's the price.  Interestingly, the receipt marks them as health items. I know that sunscreen can be added to HSA for tax deduction.

m8547

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 305
I just got one of these sun hats:
http://www.backcountry.com/outdoor-research-sun-runner-cap

It's probably not the most stylish hat, but if it helps avoid sunburn and reduce the need for sunscreen I think it's worth it. It would probably work under a helmet if you're biking.

m8547

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 305
No bargains that I've found.  Most easily available and cheap sunscreens are carcinogenic.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18022535 - 17 of 18 studies on the matter concluded that “there was no statistically significant effect of use of sunscreens on risk of melanoma." . . . which seems pretty damning on sunscreen use altogether.

The conclusion is that it's additional UVA exposure that causes melanoma. Does the study say how many of the people were using broad spectrum sunscreen? Zinc oxide looks like it's good for broad spectrum, but I don't like the smell. It smells metallic, like zinc!

This discussion also reminds me of the one time I saw "organic" sunscreen. I read the label, and it turns out calling it organic is absurd, since it was 15% zinc oxide, an inorganic chemical.

Embers

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Age: 47
  • Location: TX
I have tried a lot of sunscreen and have yet to find a cheap mineral base sunscreen. I have really oily skin and most sunscreen either makes me look like the lead from the movie "Powder" or that I have oil spill on my face.

My favorite sunscreen is called Elta MD UV Clear SPF 46. The sunscreen dries to a matte clear finish and you will not smell like the beach. It has been rated on EWG at a 3 and I have been using it for years. The only problem is the cost..... It runs about $25.00 for 1.7oz and that only last  me a month.

Once I use up my stash of sunscreen I plan on trying Face Factor Sunscreen SPF 30 by Kiss My Face. You can get 2oz for 10 bucks on Amazon. Face Factor is rated on EWG at a 2 and has a ton of positive reviews on Amazon. I have tried a few products from Kiss My Face and was pleased with the quality.  If you decide to try it please update your post and let me know how it worked for you.

SJS

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 136
I buy the big bottle of Lubriderm that has SPF 15 in it - I slather that on every morning, and if I'm going to be out in the direct sun, I'll take/use a spray sunscreen, too.  Like the Nutrogena products, too - husband likes their "sport" sun products as he sweats so much when outside.   

Emilyngh

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 901
This won't help much for this year, but I always watch at the end of the summer when stores like Target put sunscreen on super clearance.    Sometimes I can even stack coupons and then I stock up (usually get about 5 large bottles or so) that lasts the next summer.

chasesfish

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4376
  • Age: 41
  • Location: Florida
I'm a heavy consumer of sunscreen, fair skinned and an outdoor nut.

I stick with Coppertone sold at Costco.  I used to use the cheap stuff from Target, but it was causing rashes and itching.  I finally had to admit this wasn't an area worth saving $2 on

DrJD

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 21
No bargains that I've found.  Most easily available and cheap sunscreens are carcinogenic.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18022535 - 17 of 18 studies on the matter concluded that “there was no statistically significant effect of use of sunscreens on risk of melanoma." . . . which seems pretty damning on sunscreen use altogether.

I think your summary of their analysis is a little off. First, they only analyzed 17 of the 18 studies - the 18th was thrown out because it didn't meet criteria for inclusion (probably because it was older and/or had poor control groups, common reasons in these sorts of meta-analyeses - ok found full text, it was because it was on 'suntan lotion/sun lotion' and not sunscreen specific). The way you summarized made it sound like 17 were in a agreement and the 18th wasn't - while in fact, the 18th wasn't included, and the 17 probably had some mixture of findings.

They also say they found an interaction between latitude and sunscreen - Which means that the odds ratio (relative probability) of sunscreen use/melanoma was different depending on how far you live from the equator. If you lived far from the equator, and you developed melanoma, you were more 1.6 times as likely to be a user of sunscreens compared to people who didn't develop the disease. If you lived close to the equator, and developed melanoma, you were (non-significantly) only 0.7 times as likely to be a user of sunscreen. I know they didn't distinguish the significance in the abstract, but the full text specifies that only the first finding was significant.

I could write up more from the full text if you are interested, but basically, don't toss the sunscreen yet. A quote from the discussion section:

"There is no controversy regarding whether sunscreens reduce the incidence or progression of actinic keratosis 50 and 51 and that broad-spectrum sunscreens applied using the FDA standard 2 micron layer thickness, can reduce incidence rates of squamous cell carcinoma (52). However, this does not appear to be true for the more common basal cell carcinoma, which occurs in the deepest (basal) layer of the epidermis (53), the same anatomical location as the melanocytes, where melanoma occurs".

There's still some skin health benefits and cancer protection - just maybe not against melanoma.

THIS.  As a physician who treats cancer I can't tell you how many times I see folks come in with squamous cell and basal cells that got away from them and need more treatment than just removal.  Melanoma is the scariest, but don't forget about the others.  Wear big hats, long sleeves and sun screen always.  I find that the long sleeve "swim shirts" can be found to look fairly "cool" so its not the same as when all of us were too embarrassed to go shirtless as kids and wore their dad's t-shirts.  Maybe that was just me.

alsoknownasDean

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2843
  • Age: 39
  • Location: Melbourne, Australia
I just use whatever sunscreen, even the cheap supermarket brand works well (usually SPF 30+)

Dee18

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2209
I have recently found SPF 30+ shirts at TJMaxx in with the athletic clothes for women.

epipenguin

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 124
For the face I use a Korean sunscreen. Missha All Around Safe Block Essence Sun SPF45 PA+++. The PA+++ thing is an indication of UVA protection, showing that it is broad spectrum. It's a chemical-only sunscreen, because I find that titanium dioxide is very irritating to my skin, and zinc oxide clogs my pores and seems to cause breakouts. But it doesn't include avobenzone (which stings my eyes) or oxybenzone (rates an 8 on EWG) either. It's nicely moisturizing, and although the regular price is $14 there are very frequent sales. I think I got mine for $8.40 a bottle (at which price I stocked up 5 bottles). It's currently on the misshaus.com website for $9.80.

I usually use a Kiss My Face sunscreen for my body. Not the cheapest necessarily but not bad.

kathrynd

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 412
I rarely use sunscreen.


I find people tend to stay longer in the sun than they should, because they think the  sunscreen will protect them.

Only time I wear sunscreen, is when I cannot get out of the sun, such as when travelling in the car.

Roots&Wings

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1555
Wear big hats, long sleeves and sun screen always.  I find that the long sleeve "swim shirts" can be found to look fairly "cool" so its not the same as when all of us were too embarrassed to go shirtless as kids and wore their dad's t-shirts.  Maybe that was just me.

This is what I do. Wide brimmed sun hats and UPF long sleeve tops.

Sun Safe Clothing: http://www.skincancer.org/prevention/sun-protection/clothing/protection
Clothing, Our First Line of Defense: http://www.skincancer.org/prevention/sun-protection/clothing/clothing-our-first-line-of-defense

sol

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8433
  • Age: 47
  • Location: Pacific Northwest
I spend significant amounts of time in the sun for my job.  At high elevation.  On snow.  The sun is a constant threat.

Everyone on my team wears long sleeve shirts and pants and sunglasses, and very importantly gloves because we've seen some bad hand burns.  Some of us wear baseball caps with a neck drape like the one  SunRunner m8547 posted above, and some wear a shemagh or keffiyeh and we all slather on the SPF 50+.  We worry more about how much it stings the eyes when you sweat than we do about whether or not it gives you cancer, because bad sunscreen will blind you and that's a safety hazard for all of us.  I like the Babyganics stuff but it's expensive, so I more commonly wear the Banana Boat Baby tear-free 50+.

The above mentioned concern about sunscreen being ineffective because you tend to miss spots is stupid.  If you missed somewhere, then you did a bad job and that's your fault, not the sunscreen.  We don't miss spots anymore, because we've all had bad experienced with scorched temples or something when first starting out.

Even after all of that precaution, we still burn.  Sometimes it's someone's nose, if they didn't put on the clown paint thick enough.  Sometimes it's a gap between pants and a too-short shirt.  The sun is relentless, like water it will get in anywhere there's the slightest crack.

As for sun shirts, we long ago gave up on buying expensive specially-made UPF shirts.  Pretty much any tight weave synthetic dress shirt in a dark color will work, as long as the sleeves are a little extra long, the collar is high, and the tails hang down lown enough to either be tucked in or cover your pants.  We each go through at least one shirt a season, so we just scour the men's dress shirts rack at goodwill for appropriate ones.  As a bonus, we all look very fashionable.

Quinny

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 27
We use Blue Lizard Australian sensitive sunscreen. Its got a 2 from ewg. It's less pricey that most others I've found, and I found a great sale online a couple months ago and stocked up. (Be careful if you do that though, I had to check their expiration date carefully!)

MayDay

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4953
Hey, my thread is alive!

I ended up buying an rei brand long sleeve Sun shirt that worked very well (albeit very dorky).  After one summer of fairly regular wear it still looks good. Pulled over a tank top it's not too hot.

I also scored one on clearance for 12$ for DS, that's going in his Easter basket.


Elliot

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 284
Oh sunscreen is one of my favorite topics! I wear sunscreen each and every day. In addition to being very fair myself, my best friend works in skin cancer research.

As for what I use for myself, my face gets Neutrogena Clear Face SPF 55. My body gets Coppertone Waterbabies SPF 50 Pure&Simple (but the regular Waterbabies is fine if that's what's on sale).  Sometimes stores will have their generic version of that, and if you like the formula (not too sticky, shiny, whatever) those will be as effective as the name brand.

Sunscreen is great AND EFFECTIVE, when used appropriately. Use the correct amount (1oz/30ml for body, 1/4 tsp/1ml each for face and neck) and reapply as often as the label suggests. Sun protective clothing is also wonderful for days when you will spend a lot of time exposed. For my scalp, I have a powdered sunscreen that I tap into my hairline if I won't be able to wear or keep a hat.

For physical sunscreens (which are often more expensive) you must expect a bit of a white cast to them. It's the nature of the active ingredients, typically zinc and titanium. These are good options for those with sensitive skin. Skinceuticals is my favorite facial sunscreen of all time, but is rather expensive.

For chemical sunscreens, they MUST be reapplied at least every two hours, as the active ingredients work by sort of "sacrificing" themselves when they contact the UVA and/or UVB light.  These ingredients tend to be the culprit when people complain that sunscreen stings. Chemical sunscreens are great because they are more cosmetically elegant (white cast typically disappears after a minute or two, dry to a more matte finish) and are frankly just less annoying to use.

Also, sunscreen has a shelflife, so never use ss you bought more than a year ago.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2015, 12:24:39 PM by Elliot »

chops

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 180
  • Location: Mustachian Midwest
Sol, thanks for the frugal recommendation on synthetic mens dress shirts to block the sun, i had not
heard that before!  I had read that denim is extremely effective, but aside from rocking a denim tuxedo, it's good to know that i have another stylish option (possibly more stylish depending on one's taste? :) for blocking the sun and not buying into the latest spendypants sunblocking shirt label. 

- Chops

waltworks

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5653
Under Armor makes their "heat gear" line of clothing that is perhaps not your style, but not stupidly expensive and will shield you from UV. Great for running/bike riding/etc. Not so great for casual hanging out unless you like that look.

Physical barrier sunblocks (not "sunscreen") will also prevent all UV from doing any damage, assuming you apply them properly. They're usually zinc/titanium oxide based. I like Blue Lizard, but it's not super cheap. Cheaper than cancer, though.

-W

m8547

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 305
I spend significant amounts of time in the sun for my job.  At high elevation.  On snow.  The sun is a constant threat.

Everyone on my team wears long sleeve shirts and pants and sunglasses, and very importantly gloves because we've seen some bad hand burns.  Some of us wear baseball caps with a neck drape like the one  SunRunner m8547 posted above, and some wear a shemagh or keffiyeh and we all slather on the SPF 50+.  We worry more about how much it stings the eyes when you sweat than we do about whether or not it gives you cancer, because bad sunscreen will blind you and that's a safety hazard for all of us.  I like the Babyganics stuff but it's expensive, so I more commonly wear the Banana Boat Baby tear-free 50+.

The above mentioned concern about sunscreen being ineffective because you tend to miss spots is stupid.  If you missed somewhere, then you did a bad job and that's your fault, not the sunscreen.  We don't miss spots anymore, because we've all had bad experienced with scorched temples or something when first starting out.

Even after all of that precaution, we still burn.  Sometimes it's someone's nose, if they didn't put on the clown paint thick enough.  Sometimes it's a gap between pants and a too-short shirt.  The sun is relentless, like water it will get in anywhere there's the slightest crack.

As for sun shirts, we long ago gave up on buying expensive specially-made UPF shirts.  Pretty much any tight weave synthetic dress shirt in a dark color will work, as long as the sleeves are a little extra long, the collar is high, and the tails hang down lown enough to either be tucked in or cover your pants.  We each go through at least one shirt a season, so we just scour the men's dress shirts rack at goodwill for appropriate ones.  As a bonus, we all look very fashionable.

It's cool to hear about how you handle extreme UV exposure. For me snow at high altitude is the worst, and I have gotten bad sunburns several times despite taking precautions. Cancer aside, blistering 2nd degree sunburn on your nose is no fun, and it's happened to me twice as a result of not reapplying sunscreen frequently enough when I was on snow all day.

When there's snow on the ground it's usually cold, and when it's cold I often have a runny nose. As a result I tend to wipe my nose, which wipes off the sunscreen. For me, it helps to use the greasiest, most permanent sunscreen on my nose. I found some stuff that's difficult to wash off even with soap! It's Dermatone SPF 30.

I've used the Sun Runner hat a few times since I mentioned it here. It's great, but the cape is a bit too short for me, so I've gotten sunburn on the bottom of my neck as a result. Apparently I have a long neck. Maybe I can modify it to be a bit longer or start hiking in collared shirts.

I went hiking in Arizona, and almost everyone had a wide brimmed hat. I was the only one with a cape style hat. I think the wide brim is better for keeping you cool in the desert since the cape tends to trap and radiate heat. It wasn't that hot when I was there, so it didn't bother me.  The cape has better protection when the sun is at lower angles.

I don't think there's much to finding a UV blocking clothing that's not UPF rated. If you don't mind some extra weight and warmth, look for opaque fabric. Dark colors absorb light, which is good. If you want a light, breathable layer it might be best to make sure it's UPF rated. I don't think I've ever been sunburned through any clothing, but if you are trying to eliminate practically all UV exposure that might not be good enough.

possumjaw

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 31
Yeah I was going to suggest clothing...

I am down in the U.S. South and we get hot/humid like no other, but due to meds, I am somewhat photosensitive, and burn easily anyways...

Go for something light colored and breathable.  Think flowing shirts, quickdry hiking pants, or maybe like a victorian maiden dress?  If you get some which are durable, you can go out into the garden/woods/beach/whathaveyou and get them totally gross, and worse case is they dry up in the sun a moment later and then you look like you've been having adventures.  Wash and repeat.  Big sun hats help. 

FIRE me

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1097
  • Location: Louisville, KY
  • So much technology, so little talent.
We are outside constantly in the summer, and I try to be really diligent about applying sunscreen.  For myself plus two kids, that means we go through it fast.  I also try to pay attention to the Environmantel Working Group's rating of the safety of various sunscreen ingredients, which means I don't buy the cheapest vat they sell at Walmart. 

The kids and myself have long sleeved swim shirts which helps at the pool.  I have considered getting one of the long sleeved sun shirts they sell at REI, but not sure if the cost is worth it (if I have one sun shirt, and get it dirty gardening, it will be three days before it is washed and dried, so in the mean time I will still need sunscreen).  We wear sun hats outside as much as possible, but still need face sunscreen when biking.

Has anyone found a bargains on sunscreen that won't give me cancer? 

Somewhat related question, does anyone use a daily moisturizer with sunscreen on their face?  I still, at age 31, get tons of zits, so I don't like to slather regular sunscreen on my face every day.  But the fancy face creams with sunscreen are super expensive.  And again, I worry about smearing carcinogens all over myself.

Consumer Reports likes Coppertone Water Babies SPF 50, followed by Wal-Mart's Equate Ultra Protection SPF 50.

ShaneD

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 184
Somewhat related question, does anyone use a daily moisturizer with sunscreen on their face?  I still, at age 31, get tons of zits, so I don't like to slather regular sunscreen on my face every day.  But the fancy face creams with sunscreen are super expensive.  And again, I worry about smearing carcinogens all over myself.

At the risk of exposing yet another thing I buy that will make people think I am a spendy idiot... My face gets breakouts and rosacea with most sunscreens and moisturizers. Over the past 20 years I've tried all kinds of sunscreens. I want very much to use the "natural" ones or the ones recommended by EWG. I just bought yet another EWG-approved zinc oxide one and man I looked like I had minor leprosy. In the end, I go back to Kiehl's Ultra Facial Moisturizer. Expensive, yes. I only use it on my face and (if I'm going to be outside somewhere intensely sunny, like the beach), I use whatever junky destroy the earth sunscreen on the rest of me.

Like Basenji, the skin on my face reacts badly to sunscreens (both physical and chemical), so I use Cerave Facial Moisturizer AM (with a bit of sunscreen in it), whatever's available on my arms and legs, wear various bits of protective clothing as needed, stay in the shade, avoid the highest-sun hours, and carry a Coolibar parasol: http://www.coolibar.com/product/Shade/Umbrellas-Shelters/48-Titanium-Fashion-Umbrella/pc/2335/c/0/sc/2297/155592.uts

Looks a bit ridiculous (especially in Manhattan), but it works really well, and the lining inside actually makes it feel a couple of degrees cooler under the umbrella than outside it. (Helpful.) I also own a Solumbra parasol, which looks a thousand times less like it's part of the lunar lander, but despite its 100+ SPF claims, is much, much less effective.


[Edited for detail.]
« Last Edit: April 06, 2015, 06:54:27 AM by ShaneD »

cavewoman

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 521
  • Age: 37
  • I'm a woman who likes caves
Can I bring this thread back? I'm in the central California fruit basket aka desert, and I have fair skin. I really like walking with friends on breaks at work, but I hate feeling greasy. I'm usually in a sleeveless top and shrug or sweater, and I take the shrug off to walk. I usually apply generic baby sunscreen all over in the morning, and then use a waxy stick thing to reapply during work. I prefer lotion, but I kept staining my sleeve and neck areas on my clothes. I've just ordered a sunbrella (not what its called but what I think it should be called) . Hopefully that helps. But even just driving or being outside for short times feels like I'm baking.  I need something lighter feeling that I can reapply during the day. Also, do you think baby sunscreen actually has less bad stuff in it?
Sorry for the rambley paragraph, I can't get the cursor on my phone to go back in there and edit.

lbmustache

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 926
Can I bring this thread back? I'm in the central California fruit basket aka desert, and I have fair skin. I really like walking with friends on breaks at work, but I hate feeling greasy. I'm usually in a sleeveless top and shrug or sweater, and I take the shrug off to walk. I usually apply generic baby sunscreen all over in the morning, and then use a waxy stick thing to reapply during work. I prefer lotion, but I kept staining my sleeve and neck areas on my clothes. I've just ordered a sunbrella (not what its called but what I think it should be called) . Hopefully that helps. But even just driving or being outside for short times feels like I'm baking.  I need something lighter feeling that I can reapply during the day. Also, do you think baby sunscreen actually has less bad stuff in it?
Sorry for the rambley paragraph, I can't get the cursor on my phone to go back in there and edit.

I hate the greasy feeling too, especially if I wearing a lot of clothing. The best one I have found that is reasonably priced (sometimes at Target it's 2/$5) is this Banana Boat one: http://www.ewg.org/2015sunscreen/about-the-sunscreens/618660/Banana_Boat_Protect_%26_Hydrate_Sunscreen_Lotion%2C_SPF_30/

It's very lightweight and has zero grease.

I also like this Neutrogena one which you can get at Costco: http://www.ewg.org/2015sunscreen/about-the-sunscreens/618779/Neutrogena_Ultra_Sheer_Dry-Touch_Sunscreen_Lotion%2C_SPF_45/

neophyte

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 631
  • Location: A wretched hive of scum and villainy
Sunscreen!  A topic near and dear to my heart!  Basically, I hate sunscreen. It irritates my skin and makes me break out and it smells funny. I have tried a lot of brands too since there are dermatologists in my family who are always passing along samples of one sunscreen or another.

My number 1 choice if I'm just going to be walking around outside with my hands free is an umbrella. So what if I look like a weirdo?

Number 2 choice is sunscreen.  So far, I've found two that won't make my face break out but neither is cheap. I like Hera Sunmate Daily and COTZ Face.  It's one of the things I'm willing to pay a little bit more for.  An added bonus in my opinion is neither one of those has that sunscreen smell.  Both are tinted, so probably not great for light colored clothes. The Hera is more like a lightweight lotion and the COTZ is thick and creamy but it doesn't feel too greasy once it's rubbed in.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2015, 07:31:45 AM by neophyte »

mrsggrowsveg

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 542
After I get my 30 minutes or so of exposure, I try to cover up.  I wear long sleeved button down shirts and a hat for farm work. 

But sometimes I still need sunscreen when I'm out and about.  I got this recipe from this forum and it has worked amazing for my son and myself.  I bought one bag of zinc oxide from Amazon and I think it will last us years even though we use a lot of sunscreen:

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/share-your-badassity/typical-mustachian-saturday/?topicseen

partgypsy

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5206
Biggest thing to do is keep out of the sun during the most intense time of the day (10am -4 pm or so).
If you are walking a wide brimmed hat. Heck I've even worn hats while in the pool.
 Both my kids have swim shirts (they don't like wearing them) but maybe I will invest in one for myself.

for the person who is posting, get an additional shirt so you can rinse or clean and alternate between them.

Lastly for sunscreen I get whatever high spf that is waterproof, I believe bullfrog is the one we mostly get but we also get generics. My face breaks out but I found out the Aveeno doesn't make it break out (Aveeno natural protection spf 50).  It does give your skin a bit of a white cast but it doesn't bother me.
(have had a grandmother, father, mother-in-law and a friend younger than me, had cancer removed from their face).
« Last Edit: July 06, 2015, 10:19:16 AM by partgypsy »

ShaneD

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 184
Re: Sunscreen, or other skin protection, that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
« Reply #40 on: August 04, 2015, 05:23:39 PM »
I also like this Neutrogena one which you can get at Costco: http://www.ewg.org/2015sunscreen/about-the-sunscreens/618779/Neutrogena_Ultra_Sheer_Dry-Touch_Sunscreen_Lotion%2C_SPF_45/

Be warned: at least the aerosol version of the Ultra Sheer Dry Touch stuff, when mixed with chlorine, turns green. :/ Makes for an interesting pool party.

Not sure about the cream-version, though.

sser

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 30
Re: Sunscreen, or other skin protection, that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
« Reply #41 on: August 04, 2015, 07:03:04 PM »
+1 to not liking sunscreen : \

But when I must use it:

For a zinc oxide type sunscreens, I have tried a bunch and also like Blue Lizard Sensitive as it seems to rubs in better/ leaves less of a white tint behind. It also has a score of 1 on Cosmetic Database (think that the regular version may have a higher, more toxic rating).

As far as face sunscreen goes, I haven't found a great zinc oxide based one yet. I have been using Andalou Naturals Ultra Sheer Daily Defense SPF 18 (chemical-based) when needed, and will likely buy it again. It has a Cosmetic Database score of 2 or 3, so not too bad.

Also, recently saw this article: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/go-ahead-soak-up-some-sun/2015/07/24/00ea8a84-3189-11e5-97ae-30a30cca95d7_story.html

Apparently too much sun and also too little sun can be linked to cancer...

I am fairly afraid of the sun (especially after some bad burns - thank you Polish heritage) and tend to avoid it like the plague, but guess I'll have to start trying to get out there for 15 min or so during peak hours to get some Vitamin D in.

FLA

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 575
Re: Sunscreen, or other skin protection, that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
« Reply #42 on: August 04, 2015, 07:15:03 PM »
former oncology, radiation oncology and hospice nurse- seen enough 32 year olds die of melanoma that I am a firm believer in sunscreen.  My dad has had 37 (!) basal cell carcinomas removed so far (no sunscreen when he was a kid). NIH is still recommending it as lately as this May:

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/news/fullstory_152630.html

WARNING THIS GETS GROSS: I am going to talk about one case because I think it might convince even 1 person to start using sun protection.  I respect the NIH, have not been steered wrong yet by them in 23 yrs of nursing, so my family does what this article says to do. We are fair skinned and burn very easily.  I don't think I will ever change my opinion on sunscreen after the melanoma deaths I saw, I even had one ancient guy die of a basal cell carcinoma on his face, totally curable, his doc never addressed it.  It rapidly grew, by the end, the only part of his face that in anyway still resembled a face, was his forehead, everything else been eaten away and everyday, twice a day, we went there to scrape food that ended up in his sinuses out and put fresh dressings in.  You could see all his bones, his sinuses were wide open, there was no skin covering any of it. Eyes succumbed, he was blind. He should've sued his primary for seeing him for some 40 yrs and not addressing the humongous basal cell on his face, one of the worst cases of obvious malpractice I have ever seen.  I wish I had a picture of this poor guy, anyone who saw that from a basal cell CA and still didn't use sunscreen is nuts, IMO.  Think using "cancerous" sunscreen can produce an outcome like this once simple basal cell CA? Yeah? Your funeral (literally, very easily, your funeral or your child's).

our oncologists recommend Neutrogena with helioplex protecting UVA/UVB 45 SPF applied as often and as much as we have all been told to do, which, yes, is expensive and a complete PITA.  There is a reason my children believed it was really called "sun scream".  Target has their brand next to the Neutrogena, had same ingredients, so I've used that as well.  And physical, sun blocking stuff, like shirts, hats, etc.  Zinc oxide.  I use a daily moisturizer with sunscreen by Neutrogena.  There are a ton, the one I use is just moisturizer and sunscreen, no wrinkle stuff, can't remember the exact name.  CVS brand has same ingredients, sometimes I use that.  I do not walk out of my house, even in the dead of winter, without applying that moisturizer to face and hands.  if you are fair skinned and worried about not getting enough vit D, tell this to your doc, they will say take a supplement, some still say go without sunscreen for 15 minutes, more than 15 mins is unnecessary.  Also, most insurances pay to see a dermatologist to do skin cancer screening once a year. A $20 co-pay and an hour of your day to catch anything suspicious before it goes too far? Why would you not? Go once to derm, be prepared to have every spot of skin checked, from your scalp to your hoo-ha, that is the way it is properly done. Next time ask your primary to do it and compare the level of scrutiny. 

I do not believe sunscreen causes cancer:

http://www.snopes.com/medical/myths/sunscreen.asp

http://www.skincancer.org/skin-cancer-information/ask-the-experts/does-sunscreen-cause-cancer

Dee18

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2209
Re: Sunscreen, or other skin protection, that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
« Reply #43 on: August 04, 2015, 07:27:45 PM »
I've had good luck finding sunproof clothing at TJMaxx and super discounted (70%off) at a local high end outdoor store.  I also bought a long sleeved shirt from Solumbra Sun Precautions  5 years ago and have worn it on almost every hike since then...it is still in great shape and the fabric feels soft, and it's not hot to wear. (With other brands I tried, the fabric felt stiff or too thick.)  I also love their hats. 
For sunscreen I use Vanicream, purchased at my allergist's office, about $8 for a large tube.

Liz

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 106
Re: Sunscreen, or other skin protection, that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
« Reply #44 on: August 05, 2015, 08:25:02 AM »
I whitewater kayak a lot and sunscreen/sun protection is very important to me! I actually have been using Japanese sunscreens on my face -- they are cosmetically elegant and have a high PA ranking. I use one called Kanebo that I bought from Amazon and reapply a lot. I am also a fan of rash guards/swim shirts. NRS is a great brand and they always have last year's shirt designs on sale.

I was that kid at the beach with a t-shirt on and big streaks of white sunscreen on my cheeks. I definitely whined about it, but now I am thankful that my parents were diligent about it.

vhalros

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 308
Re: Sunscreen, or other skin protection, that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
« Reply #45 on: August 05, 2015, 08:54:41 AM »
http://www.ewg.org/2015sunscreen/report/executive-summary/ <-- I've found this website pretty helpful for actually rating sunscreens. Many of them make marketing claims that are basically ridiculous, the effectiveness of the spray on ones is debatable, and there are concerns about endocrine disruptors of some chemicals contained in others.

For these reasons, I use only mineral (titanium dioxide or zinc dioxide) suncreens. The cheapest I've found that meets this requiremetns is this one: http://www.amazon.com/Honest-Company-Sunscreen-Lotion-2-pack/dp/B00UR6HH5I/ . It has bad reviews on Amazon, but I have never had any problems with it and I am very pale. It is oily when you first apply it though. Costco has it for a much better price of $14 for a the same 2 pack.

velocistar237

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1424
  • Location: Metro Boston
Re: Sunscreen, or other skin protection, that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
« Reply #46 on: August 05, 2015, 09:32:44 AM »
I'm looking forward to the day when this cool-roof technology is adapted to clothing. Wearing a long-sleeve shirt might become more comfortable than wearing a short-sleeve shirt.

Some people have criticized EWG's report because they have a bias toward non-synthetic ingredients. They rate some of the most effective sunscreens poorly because they contain compounds that must be synthesized rather than extracted. Every sunscreen they rate highly is outrageously expensive. I tried one that was on sale, but after that switched back to drug store broad spectrum baby sunscreen.

Sunscreen is definitely worth it if shade isn't an option. Besides the cancer, I'd prefer to avoid the prematurely aged look.

KCM5

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 881
Re: Sunscreen, or other skin protection, that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
« Reply #47 on: August 05, 2015, 09:45:40 AM »
Sunscreen!

We use this: http://www.ewg.org/skindeep/product/496161/Coppertone_Water_Babies_Pure_%26_Simple_Sunscreen_Lotion,_SPF_50_(2013_formulation)/

It's easy to find in stores and is priced reasonably. It does make you a little white, but I don't worry about that.

And shade, as mentioned. Don't forget shade.

Credaholic

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 223
  • Location: Seattle
    • Credaholic
Re: Sunscreen, or other skin protection, that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
« Reply #48 on: August 05, 2015, 10:12:38 AM »
We love Babyganics: http://www.ewg.org/skindeep/product/617147/Babyganics_Mineral-Based_Sunscreen_Lotion%2C_SPF_50%2B_/

I get a 2 pack on Amazon for less than $15 which seems pretty reasonable to me, at least in comparison to the Neutrogena Pure & Free Baby we were using which it turned out has a worse rating on EWG and is twice as expensive!

MacGyverIt

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 250
  • Location: Not in a tropical, underpopulated location. And that's just wrong.
  • What Would MacGyver Do?
Re: Sunscreen, or other skin protection, that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
« Reply #49 on: August 05, 2015, 01:24:16 PM »
http://www.suntegrityskincare.com/

The woman who created this line lost her mother to skin cancer. I've had multiple bouts with skin cancer, I'm naturally white as a ghost, so I will pay and arm and a leg to avoid more cancer on arm, legs, face, wherever. Their sunscreen contains 20% uncoated zinc oxide in their formulation, safer than titanium.

I also invested in SPFed big hat and gloves, I even wear the gloves while driving (I can burn in the car). If I'm wearing the hat I'm only concerned about the reflection of sun against the asphalt ... not sure of the science on if that even matters?

Perhaps the medical professionals who've replied in this thread could offer an educated opinion.