suck it up? or stop enabling?

[ace1224]

very long story short my brother and his wife are not good with money.  i long ago stopped giving them cash and now have limited my assistance to things for my nephew (and now his siblings).  before long i was the go to person for all things medical for him, and i'm calling walgreens to pay for his medicine when he's sick.
they just had twins, and i was just hit up for money for formula or "since you don't fee comfortable giving cash could you buy it on amazon and send it to us."  the rational part of my brain tells me i'm obviously being taken advantage of and at some point i'm going to have to stop, but then the emotional "what about the kids!!!" kicks in. 
i have been to their house and the water is turned off and i pay it because i hate the idea of my niece and nephews having to suffer for their parents mistakes but then i see a starbucks cup on the counter.  its very hard for me not to be judgey.
the money itself isn't really setting me back all that much. 
am i doing more harm than good? or should i just say no, i won't (they obviously know i can) you need to sell something and start getting your shit together

[Ottawa]

Wow!  This is an incredibly difficult situation.  I feel (and you too I'm sure) like you are definitely being taken advantage of.  The simple answer is to stop enabling as it will only get worse and become totally relied upon.  And yet, it's not so simple; especially when children are perhaps being used as emotional pawns.  Effectively you and and your niece/nephew are being punished by the irresponsibility displayed by your brother. 

It sounds like the brother in question does not live nearby.  This makes things harder.  Is there any way to introduce Mustachianism to them...or select parts?  What I mean is can you educate rather than enable through monetary tools?
 

[Khao]

This is really sad. It seems like the parents take care of their own little needs and addictions before taking care of the needs of their children! Then they rely on you to save the day.

My opinion is to stop helping them in terms of money, but offer yourself for other things they might need help with. I would sit down with your brother and tell him that it's not right for you to pay for his kids' stuff, but you will be more than happy to help with babysitting or chores and stuff like that.

The only thing I would order from Amazon for them is a good book about personal finances.

[Mr.Macinstache]

I would bet they have no desire to change, especially when they are being subsidized. I would basically tell them you wont be giving anymore assistance, and if they need help, here's the number to a local shelter. Would they really be ok seeing their kids go without food and water??? If so, a family member need to probably get custody if that ever happens.

Where's the rest of the family? Parents, aunts, uncles other siblings? You all need to set them straight. When you enable something, you get more of it.

[ace1224]

This is really sad. It seems like the parents take care of their own little needs and addictions before taking care of the needs of their children! Then they rely on you to save the day.

My opinion is to stop helping them in terms of money, but offer yourself for other things they might need help with. I would sit down with your brother and tell him that it's not right for you to pay for his kids' stuff, but you will be more than happy to help with babysitting or chores and stuff like that.

The only thing I would order from Amazon for them is a good book about personal finances.

they live 2.5 hours away.  so not too terribly far but far enough that i can't go every day and help out and my own son has activities on the weekends, i average about 1 time a month going to visit. 
good idea about the book, i may order a dave ramsey one for them or offer to pay for them to go to financial peace university through their church or something.

[avonlea]

I am so sorry that you are going through this, ace1224.  I think I would feel just as conflicted if I were in your shoes. *hugs*

[FIence!]

When you're buying them that personal finance book on Amazon throw in a box of condoms. Twins? Seriously? When they are in that shape financially?

[MissStache]

Wow, this really sucks.  I want to start out by saying that you sound like an incredibly good and generous person and kudos for being so willing to help those children.

BUT.  I really think you have to stop.  You are definitely enabling them and nothing will get better if you continue doing this.  They certainly don't seem to care that their financial situation is so grim, probably because they know you will bail them out in the end.

How old are the older kids?  Are they old enough for you to talk to them about finances and hopefully influence them?  I'd hate for them to see their parents and think that is how they are supposed to live...

[Norrie]

That's an incredibly hard situation, and I commend you for all that you've done.

In terms of formula, there's no reason for you to buy it. There should be DOZENS of resources in town for free formula. Emergency Infant Services, churches, and WIC. It sounds like they would definitely qualify for WIC, food stamps, and Medicaid for the kids. If you want to help, I'd start by gathering information on how to apply, and then help them do so. It takes some perseverance, but is so, so worth it. Their children's health care would be covered! And food!

I think that I would respond with, "I'm unable to help with these costs any longer, but I made a list of community resources for the things that you need, and I can help you apply for assistance programs. Any future help from me will be in the form of teaching you how to manage finances".

It's easy for me to say though. My brother is 42, and my parents still pay his rent, for food, and his child support payments. So there's that.

[FunkyStickman]

Very tough call...

The Mustachian in me says, you're not going to help, they either quit wasting money and get their act together, or you're going to call Child Services on them. Nobody should be buying Starbucks (at all, really) when their water is shut off.

They're going to obviously keep taking advantage of you. They need to get it together, or they have no business taking care of children. I wouldn't hesitate calling CS on them if it doesn't improve, with the caveat that the kids stay in the family and don't get shipped to a foster home.

Man. Tough call.

[ace1224]

thanks guys.  i really like the idea of finding them resources and helping them apply.  the twisted part is they both have decent jobs just crazy amounts of debt and student loans.  they are the type of people that took out more than they needed to fund vacations and furniture without regard to paying it back in the future. 
i've done some googling and i think for christmas i'm going to pay for a session to a legit financial adviser, bc if they won't listen to me then maybe they'll listen to a professional.

and @missstache my nephew is 2 and the twins are 2 weeks old.  but i will be talking to him about money as they grow up for sure.  i have no clue why they got pregnant on purpose!!! when they have like zero cashflow.

i'm good at googling and filling out papers so maybe if i fill everything out for them (yet again enabling) they can at least not have to rely on friends and family for basic necessities.

[Spork]

I vote: STOP NOW!

The reason?  This is an exact duplicate of my sister.  She did this for years with my father.  Yes, he "bought formula."  But in buying formula, that meant she bought vodka by the gallon, so in effect, he was buying her vodka.

That happened for over 30 years.  She's nothing but a lonely, sad alcoholic now... and is still enabled.  I know your intentions are good and it is hard to say no to kids.  But I don't think you're helping the kids by buying stuff.  Something else is going on there and if you don't get at the root of the problem, you're not helping.

[Misstachian]

Really tough call.

If you do stop, I wonder if, for your own peace of mind, you might start small savings accounts/529s for the kids with the money you would have spent (with yourself as account owner), so that once they are older and perhaps out of their parents’ house and away from those influences, you would be in a position to help in whatever way you felt appropriate? Or matching their Roth IRAs once they started earning their own money as teens, or something else similar? Clearly you care about them and don’t want them following the example it seems they may grow up seeing, and a little help (with some overt lessons about how your saving allows you to do this while spending everything would not) might go a long way.

[Frankies Girl]

The fact that they are telling you what to buy them as if you are just expected to do so... yeah, I'd say they're in full-on mooch mode.

It's really sad, but I would tell them that you can't enable their lifestyle any more, but you'd be happy to help them find ways to support THEMSELVES if they were interested... and I'd also check in to make sure those kids are being taken care of, and let them know that . They are two adults, and they should damn well start acting like it.

It is a pretty horrible situation that they are so irresponsible and have children that depend on them. I honestly would tell them that if they are unable to provide basic necessities for their children, then maybe they need to stop having them, and that you're VERY concerned that the children might be taken away from them for neglect (not saying that you'd call on them, but they should be very aware that they could lose their kids if they don't start taking care of them). Having basic utilities turned off is something that CPS would consider noteworthy...

[Spork]

Really tough call.

If you do stop, I wonder if, for your own peace of mind, you might start small savings accounts/529s for the kids with the money you would have spent (with yourself as account owner), so that once they are older and perhaps out of their parents’ house and away from those influences, you would be in a position to help in whatever way you felt appropriate? Or matching their Roth IRAs once they started earning their own money as teens, or something else similar? Clearly you care about them and don’t want them following the example it seems they may grow up seeing, and a little help (with some overt lessons about how your saving allows you to do this while spending everything would not) might go a long way.

I like this a lot.  They're going to have questions some day (trust me).  And they're going to have plans on school (or something equally as important to them).  This seems like a fabulous backup plan.

[Ottawa]

If you do stop, I wonder if, for your own peace of mind, you might start small savings accounts/529s for the kids with the money you would have spent (with yourself as account owner), so that once they are older and perhaps out of their parents’ house and away from those influences, you would be in a position to help in whatever way you felt appropriate? Or matching their Roth IRAs once they started earning their own money as teens, or something else similar? Clearly you care about them and don’t want them following the example it seems they may grow up seeing, and a little help (with some overt lessons about how your saving allows you to do this while spending everything would not) might go a long way.

Awesome!  If you can set up an education savings account so that it can't be taken out by the parents...this would be IDEAL (in addition to the other educational ideas above).  If the education savings are 'untouchable', then I would inform the parents that this is how you will support the kids.  I think in Canada you can set up an RESP in another person's name without their parents knowing...with the potential issue of over-contributing (which is really unlikely to be the case here).

[galliver]

they can at least not have to rely on friends and family for basic necessities.

This...kind of makes me rather sad. I've always been under the impression that the social safety net is for people who can't rely on friends and family for help in tough times. Like if there's no one that could afford to help, or there's a deep emotional rift between family members. Sounds like neither of these is the case from your narrative, which makes it sound odd to me that you'd prefer your sister relies on strangers for assistance rather than you.

I'm not saying I have a solution to your tough situation, I just don't think the solution is pushing the problem onto someone else (unless you're going into debt or hardship by helping out). You haven't mentioned if you've actually confronted your relatives about their choices or just sighed inwardly at the Starbucks consumption. Although confronting them now that they've just had twins might not be the best idea; they're probably sleep deprived and stressed out to no end. You also haven't made clear how far you're going to go to help out the kids. Would you take custody of them, temporarily or permanently? Risk breaking up your relationship with your brother? Go through multiple heated arguments, until it sticks? Or are you just willing to throw money at the problem?

That said, your taking responsibility so far is very, very admirable and I do really like the idea of the financial advisor as a gift. It's true, sometimes it's easier to listen to the advice of a professional.

[ace1224]

@galliver - you're right it is kind of sad.  but i guess my train of thought is i'm not sure they don't really have the money, or if they are simply not budgeting correctly bc they know they have me to pick up their slack.  its always been a risk i've avoided bc of the child now children.     
i have mentioned on several occasions that they need to get their shit together, and things came to a head two years ago when i flat out refused to give cash anymore.  i was called selfish and mean and "unfamily" like since i had it and they didn't.  pointing out to them that i live in half the house they do with way more conscientious spending fell on deaf ears.

and i love the idea of a 529 for them.  i am going to do that before the end of the business day.  that way i can make sure they at least have a good education.  one of the best gifts i ever received was a debt free college education

and as for how far i'm willing to go.  i don't want to break up with my brother and i know its going to sound horrible, but i'm not really a kid person.  i would take custody if i had to, like if their parents died, but i really don't want to go up there and then come back home and suddenly have 4 kids when i don't even really like having 1 kid.  i imagine the home environment wouldn't be that great.  i will go through heated arguments though and i have a feeling we're going to get there soon.  i did send the formula but i told my brother that this would be the very last time they should call me.  he's in marketing and she's a nurse practitioner, they need to figure this shit out and stop spending all their money. 

i guess that is what makes me want to stop.  they have good jobs, its not like they are destitute, they just put themselves in these horrible positions with mcmansions and fancy cars and then don't buy their kids the stuff they need.  yes she has over 100,000 in student loans but other people have paid off loans.

[Spork]

i was called selfish and mean and "unfamily" like since i had it and they didn't.  pointing out to them that i live in half the house they do with way more conscientious spending fell on deaf ears.

This is a red flag.  Making their problems someone else's fault is a sign of huge dysfunction.  (I'm going to guess there is some addiction involved here... but... I'm a little biased in that regard.)

Bottom line: it is very unlikely you'll be able to reason with them.  In fact, any calm/rational argument will be flung back at you (usually twisted somehow) with an "I cannot believe you would say/do that!" 

Your best friend here is:  "I disagree with you, but I do not want to argue."

[sleepyguy]

Not good with money or just broke and poor?  I mean not having water is extreme and sounds that it may. Be a case of both.

Tough situation, logically its best to cut them off and let them land on their feet.  BUT the way I was raised we always help family in need.  My bro was in a tough spot for a few yrs and he stayed rent free at our house for about 2yrs to land on his feet, which he has.

Good luck!

[Bruised_Pepper]

he's in marketing and she's a nurse practitioner, they need to figure this shit out and stop spending all their money. 

i guess that is what makes me want to stop.  they have good jobs, its not like they are destitute, they just put themselves in these horrible positions with mcmansions and fancy cars and then don't buy their kids the stuff they need.  yes she has over 100,000 in student loans but other people have paid off loans.

This is pathetic.  These sound like darn good jobs, and they don't have money to provide for themselves? 

I don't have much advice for you; all I know is that there's a whole breed of people who have been raised to believe family is everything and you have to do everything for them.  I believe that family is a privilege, not a right.  They're clearing abusing that privilege.  Good luck.  Hopefully reason prevails. 

Actually, I do have some advice for you: don't argue.  Even if you win an argument, the other person comes out more dogmatic about their stance, so it does more harm than good. 

[bdh221]

Hi Ace1224,

I have had a similar experience and I will share with you my rules. However, please note my thoughts may not be consistent with early retirement strategies.

1) If someone needs help > 100 or frequent help I make them take a step towards solving their long term problem before I help them. In this case it sounds like they have too much debt. Before I would help at all I would have them provide me all of their financial information to determine if bankruptcy or debt consolidation would help. If they agreed then I would provide them with help if it made sense. Another option it to help them find a better job if income is the issue. For example you must create a resume and job searching for me to help you. I limit my help to under $1,000 but this is dependent on your own budget and finances. In this case, if they will need help with formula for a year I would help them get in contact with WIC or other government church services. In all these cases the best help you can provide is not financial. Like they say it is better to teach a man to fish then just give him a fish. If you want a fish from me you have to TRY and do something to put yourself in a position that you will not ask again.

2) If they need help > $1,000 and a better job, new skills, bankruptcy, government does not help them then I would allow them to live with me. The rule is I always do my best to make sure they have a roof over their head and have a bowl of cereal in front of them. I would not let my family go homeless or hungry.

I don't know if this helps but that is what I do. I think to have love for your family is to never give up on them no matter how much they screw up.

Best,

Brian

[ace1224]

@sleepyguy.  not good with money and broke.  they are not poor.  they didn't have water bc they spent their paychecks paying off credit cards that they wracked up.  i showed up to visit and they didn't have water and i was apalled, they were very blase about it, like "we'll pay that bill when we get paid next week" the bill shuffling sounds exhausting.

@spork i'm sure there is an addiction to buying something, i have no clue what.  this may be something for me to bring up, i hope its not drugs or something.

thanks again everyone.  i really appreciate the advice.  i've told him i won't be doing it again and i really hope i stick with it.  buying ear drops should be a priority for your kid with an ear infection, or diapers, or formula or whatever and if you have to sell your ipad mini to do it then there you go.  my mom and dad are on board as well.  obviously if shit gets really bad i'm not going to let children suffer but i do think a moment of floundering in the wind would be best for them in the long run, even though it will be really hard for me to hear the guilt trips about my niece and nephew.
and i really loved the idea of a 529 for them.  i don't know why i didn't think of it earlier.

[bdh221]

Hi Ace,

I just read some updated posts since I sent my info. If they make good money and they just blow it then I would give them less actual cash and start sending them ideas.. for example they must sell house, cars, etc. to receive help. Send then links showing what their cars are worth and what kind of car they should drive etc.

I think advice is the best you can do for them if their issues are easy to fix.

Good Luck!

Brian

[jrhampt]

Good God.  I don't have any helpful advice, really, but I want to underline the fact that they have unreasonable expectations of you when you yourself have a kid and family to worry about now.  And WHY did they have more kids in this situation?  I am always baffled by the decision to have more kids when you can't afford the one you have already, but people seem to do it all the time.  And then they use the children to hold the rest of the family hostage?  Uncool.  Especially when they have good jobs and should be capable of fully supporting themselves.  Balls!

[Frankies Girl]

Seeing that they have decent jobs but put expensive crap for themselves ahead of the kids... I think you should call CPS for a welfare check the next time the power or water is off.

The idea that those (expletive redacted as they are your family) are spending money on iPads and fancy crap when their kids needs MEDICINE AND FOOD? OMG, that is fucked up.

They are not good people and they are horrible parents. They need a wake-up call.

I'm so sorry you're in this mess, OP, and especially sorry for those poor kids.

[swick]

I vote: STOP NOW!

The reason?  This is an exact duplicate of my sister.  She did this for years with my father.  Yes, he "bought formula."  But in buying formula, that meant she bought vodka by the gallon, so in effect, he was buying her vodka.

I think out of this entire thread, this is the most important thing to think about, re framing the situation like this puts it in a whole new light.

[ace1224]

not that it makes it okay but i did want to clarify that ipads and cappuccino machines and etc and so on are not bought instead of their food, like we have 200 dollars lets buy new cellphones and then call mom and dad for rent money, they are bought usually with tax returns or overtime pay. 
and they are so wrapped up in their consumerist and materialistic minds that it doesnt occur to them to sell those things bc they "need" them.  or even save their money.  they literally spend every penny as it comes in.
like i said doesn't really excuse it i just felt the need to white knight for him a bit since he is my brother and all.

[Norrie]

A few things from a social worker's perspective:

1. In most states, it is mandated that homes with children present MUST HAVE running water. Electricity and gas are considered optional, but if a child is to remain in the home, it must have running water.

2. I would not turn them into child protective services, as being shitty with finances and not having utilities constantly running is not enough to warrant their time to investigate. They have bigger fish to fry. My guess is that if the water is turned off, they have it turned back on in a day? CPS would consider this kind of report very low priority, and chances are that it would not be investigated for several weeks, if ever. CPS only responds same day of the report if a child is believed to be in imminent danger of death.
Also, if your sister in law is a nurse practitioner, even having it noted that she has been investigated could harm her career. It isn't worth it, unless you're truly worried about neglect or abuse.
What I would do is let them know about your state's requirements for utilities when there are children in a home.

3. One of the key tenants of social work is "never work harder for your client than they are for themselves". There are many reasons for this, but the main one is to create change, people have to be personally invested. If you do all of the work for them (paying bills, filling out all applications, etc.), they don't have to invest anything of themselves, and chances are very small that they will make a permanent change.

Hearing their professions, it is very unlikely that they'll qualify for state services. I think that your best bet would be to tell your brother that you're really worried about them, and that you're extra worried now because you aren't in a position to help them financially any more. I'd tell him that you're considering getting them time with a financial planner for Christmas, and see how he responds. If he seems interested, go for it. If he seems irritated or ambivalent, don't waste the money.

You sound like a wonderful person.

[Mr.Macinstache]

Please don't ever think about calling social services. Ever. Do what you need to do to help and get more family involved.

[apennysaved]

Unfortunately, I wish schools &/or parents (if they know what they are doing) took a little more time educating kids about finances.  My parents never taught us (4 kids) how to budget or balance a checkbook.  Fortunately, I got my degree in accounting.  My siblings are smart, but definitely had/have problems with money management.  One sister (a lawyer) found Dave Ramsey & attended Financial Peace.  Before that she really bought into consumerism, and I think the group classes and accountability worked. It turned her life around financially. My other sister lived with me (about a year after she graduated college) & I helped her learn about finances as she needed a little more hand holding. She moved from another city and I gave her 3 months to actively look for a job while I covered her expenses in my house. Once she got a job, she covered rent & bills (although, I didn't make her split everything evenly).  She got it together, too.  My brother.  Different story. Parents enable him. I offered to send him to financial peace.  Offered to help him with budgeting.  But until my parents stop giving him money, he doesn't have much incentive and he is now 31. 

So different things work for different people.  I would offer to pay for Financial Peace or as others have suggested, maybe help out in some ways if you can come up with a plan.  Maybe set up some timelines with steps or goals that they need to stick to in order to receive any interim help from you.  They do need to become invested in changing their future.

I have to comment that I am blown away that they paid credit cards over water bill which seems like to most of us as a stupid, stupid thing to do.  However, I could see my younger sister making the same mistake just out of ignorance.  To simplify, I had to explain to her food, shelter, water & utilities, car (for work), then debt, then other in that order.  Yes, she was that bad.  I also had plenty of "keeping up with the jones'" purchases until I started reading blogs like this which changed my mindset & goals. Fortunately, I could afford them as could many of my peer group, but I learned that my material possessions do not define me or my accomplishments and most of my peers choose differently.

Hopefully, your brother will make some changes. It may take some time. Good luck!

[Mr.Macinstache]

The part that really gets me is the emotional blackmail and personal attacks when he puts his foot down. This is truly a disease.

[avonlea]

Hearing their professions, it is very unlikely that they'll qualify for state services. I think that your best bet would be to tell your brother that you're really worried about them, and that you're extra worried now because you aren't in a position to help them financially any more. I'd tell him that you're considering getting them time with a financial planner for Christmas, and see how he responds. If he seems interested, go for it. If he seems irritated or ambivalent, don't waste the money.

You sound like a wonderful person.

I think this is great advice.  After reading the rest of this thread and the additional details of the situation, I agree that it's probably best to stop helping your brother financially, ace1224.  (Still sending you hugs, though.) :)

[needmyfi]

I firmly believe in helping those in need, especially family, however they are not in ""need"" but in want.  And sadly what they want is not putting the welfare of their kids first. (or even third)

IThey are far tooo immature to be good parents.  Pay for the vasectomy-otherwise help them sell their cappucino machine on ebay to pay the water bill.

[Marigold]

You can't continue to give them money.

My mother was the queen of emotional blackmail to get money out of people. Never went where she claimed it was (she was able to continue her shopping addiction on my dollars though).

They aren't going to hit rock bottom unless you stop supporting them.  And you would be surprised at what "rock bottom" is for some people.

I definitely would intervene by trying to be a positive influence in the kids lives. Otherwise they are just raising the next generation of themselves who will mooch off you.

Good luck :)

[happy]

I pretty well agree with the general advice of the thread. Stop giving financial aid, try to maintain a relationship and provide financial advice ( the social work advice about only doing as much as they are willing to do themselves was very sage) if at all possible.

Personally I would keep the college education fund a secret until close to the time its needed, and then inform the recipients but not the parents.  There would be a high risk they will spend this money ahead of time and expect the kids to go into debt anyway.

Be prepared that they are going to be pretty unpleasant/abusive about this.  There's a risk they might not speak to you again. Try to maintain contact if you can, encourage them in the right direction and  keep saving for their kids education. Let any other family know what you are trying to do: if there's an united front from everyone else this is more likely to be effective.

[MrsPete]

I was picturing a couple of high-school drop-outs unable to get a job . . . so I was surprised to hear you say mid-way through the thread that they're good earners, but they can't manage their money.  They have no excuse.  This is just stupid.  Since they have the money but just aren't allocating it well, I say STOP helping them. 

At this point, they have no problem -- they are getting everything they need, even if they sometimes have to cause a fuss and guilt you into paying. They're fine with the way their world works.  You are the one who has a problem, and that problem is that you're being used /taken advantage of!  I don't mean that in a mean way -- I mean that you're the one who is upset with the way things are working out.  They're hunky-dory with taking your money.  They'll never do it as long as you're willing to continue, so that means that if change is to occur, it will have to come from your side.

Love the term "full-on mouch". 

As for WHY people like this choose to have twins, I doubt they outright made a choice.  They don't seem to be planners.  Yeah, I know that makes no sense to those of us who assume we're in charge of our lives and consciously try to make good decisions . . . but it was probably the result of inaction rather than conscious choice. 

[bogart]

they can at least not have to rely on friends and family for basic necessities.

This...kind of makes me rather sad. I've always been under the impression that the social safety net is for people who can't rely on friends and family for help in tough times. Like if there's no one that could afford to help, or there's a deep emotional rift between family members. Sounds like neither of these is the case from your narrative, which makes it sound odd to me that you'd prefer your sister relies on strangers for assistance rather than you.

It makes me sad too.  But speaking as someone who's BTDT, the problem with wanting to help people (family) behaving the way the OP describes is that ... you can't.  As a family member, you can help them (have the time/money to do so) and you want to help them, but they won't actually change their behavior, and they won't stop taking, so you can't.  In this regard an advantage of the social safety net is that it provides a "floor" and tries to protect those who really need it (e.g. the kids referenced in the OP's post) -- a pretty low floor in the U.S. -- but doesn't respond to pleas for "just a little more" or "just this month" or whatever.

[I am not saying the social safety net is perfect, or even that it functions well.  But in its basic structure/concept of trying to provide some minimal resources for everyone who needs them on the basis of an existing and applied set of rules, I'm inclined to think it comes a lot closer to being able to help people behaving in the way the OP describes than do "friends and family."  Unfortunate, but true (or at least plausible).]

[impaire]

I just want to throw a quick thought in the discussion: if the financial hardship on you isn't too intense, perhaps give it a few weeks before cutting off the money. I have two reasons to suggest you give some thought to timing considerations:
1) with 2-week old twins, your relatives are probably exhausted, and you may unwittingly trigger drama by an ill-timed move. Drama is rarely constructive for anyone.
2) it will to give you time to think through the way you are going to frame your withdrawal from their financial life, and possibly to travel there and have a serious, face-to-face conversation. Frankly it sounds like you may not have all the information you need to be making a decision which you will not second guess (you seem to have some pretty good guesses, don't get me wrong... But in matters so delicate, being certain has value.)

Overall though I agree that you have to stop sponsoring them, unless they can prove to you that they are in a truly hopeless situation; and even then, you should have some expectation that they are working to remedy their issues. My husband and I sponsored his parents for two years, but they were in an untenable situation, and were doing their best to get out of it, and have since fixed their finances. Having trust that they were actually doing their best was key for me, emotionally.

No matter what you do, congratulations for being such a supportive person!

[Zamboni]

Wow, crazy situation, and you have my support and sympathy.  You seem like a very kind person and they are really just taking advantage of you.  They have ipads, but no money for water sometimes and they want you to buy baby formula?  Like it will be your fault somehow if their infants starve? 

On one hand that blows me away, but on the other hand I had friends growing up with parents just exactly like this.  It's a lethal combination of selfishness and total lack of financial common sense that seems to be rampant in our country.

Personally I would keep the college education fund a secret until close to the time its needed, and then inform the recipients but not the parents.

Glad you've decided to go this route.  The 529's will be in your name and the money can be transferred between children, if necessary.  If it isn't needed to education then ultimately it is still your money.  It doesn't sound like the parents will put a dime towards college savings, whereas on the other hand I bet they'll find a way to feed them and buy medicine even if they claim otherwise.  Perhaps talk to the children as they grow up about how great it will be when they go to college? Put it into their mind that this is definitely an option even though you don't have to mention the money.

[Mrs.FamilyFinances]

and as for how far i'm willing to go.  i don't want to break up with my brother and i know its going to sound horrible, but i'm not really a kid person.  i would take custody if i had to, like if their parents died, but i really don't want to go up there and then come back home and suddenly have 4 kids when i don't even really like having 1 kid. 

Sad to hear you don't like having your son.

[AccidentalMiser]

Ace,

You are being played, my friend.  Stop enabling your irresponsible relatives.  Just say, in a calm voice, that you love them but cannot afford to continue to support them financially.  You need to live your life, they need to live theirs.

I know it's tough but they'll never learn anything if you keep standing in the gap.  If they get pissed and stop talking to you, then you'll know they only cared about your money anyway.

[ichangedmyname]

If you keep sending them money how will they ever learn?

This situation happens a lot where I'm from especially in my family. (This is in the Philippines) I have an uncle with 4 kids. He doesn't work, his wife runs their own little shop for odds and ends. He just basically waits for his family's "allowance" every month from his siblings working abroad. They live allowance to allowance. The kids are enrolled in private schools, they have a vehicle, they spend money on parties and of course to pay off whatever debt they incurred while waiting for the next allowance.

He will never learn to earn money for his family. It's a cycle and it will keep on happening until someone stops it.

Good luck as I know how difficult it is to be called mean, selfish and "unfamily-like".

[ace1224]

and as for how far i'm willing to go.  i don't want to break up with my brother and i know its going to sound horrible, but i'm not really a kid person.  i would take custody if i had to, like if their parents died, but i really don't want to go up there and then come back home and suddenly have 4 kids when i don't even really like having 1 kid. 

Sad to hear you don't like having your son.

thanks, because that's totally what i was looking for advice about and makes me feel even more awesome about myself than i do. 

[MissStache]

and as for how far i'm willing to go.  i don't want to break up with my brother and i know its going to sound horrible, but i'm not really a kid person.  i would take custody if i had to, like if their parents died, but i really don't want to go up there and then come back home and suddenly have 4 kids when i don't even really like having 1 kid. 

Sad to hear you don't like having your son.

thanks, because that's totally what i was looking for advice about and makes me feel even more awesome about myself than i do. 

FWIW, I was totally impressed that you were willing to admit something that I suspect a lot of people won't.  Don't be hard on yourself!

[farmstache]

Sad to hear you don't like having your son.

thanks, because that's totally what i was looking for advice about and makes me feel even more awesome about myself than i do. 

FWIW, I was totally impressed that you were willing to admit something that I suspect a lot of people won't.  Don't be hard on yourself!

Me too! It's brave to admit it, and honestly facing your feelings is always a badass way to make sure you do what's best for everyone involved.

On the other issue at hand, let us know when you decide what to do or what happens when you take that first step. We're curious, of course, but we can also be a pretty supportive community for when nobody else understands why you did something you've done.

[ace1224]

i did open a separate 529, i told my parents about it since i made them the beneficiaries and they completely agree with me.  other than that its kind of a waiting game.  i did send formula and a couple of packs of diapers via amazon but i told them it would be the last time.  since i've said that before not too much has happened yet.  it will be more of a thing in the next couple months.
he did however tell my mother that i was be "bitchy" about money again. 
i've decided to not butt into their finances other than a christmas gift of either a financial planner or FPU at church, since i'm a weenie this will be in addition to fun gift so they don't feel they got "gypped"

i do want to say thanks for all the advice.  i always feel horrible when i consider cutting them off but sporks comment how his dad essentially bought vodka even though it was formula really struck home.  i'm not helping them right now.  and i want them to get this figured out for everyone's sake, especially my own lol.

[JohnGalt]

It might be worth pointing out to them that stuff like credit card bills can actually be skipped if it's between that and formula or the water bill... Those things should come first, debt repayment second.  Maybe if their credit get's shot enough, they won't have the credit cards anymore and will at least have to just spend what they bring in.

[Mr.Macinstache]

I vote: STOP NOW!

The reason?  This is an exact duplicate of my sister.  She did this for years with my father.  Yes, he "bought formula."  But in buying formula, that meant she bought vodka by the gallon, so in effect, he was buying her vodka.

That happened for over 30 years.  She's nothing but a lonely, sad alcoholic now... and is still enabled.  I know your intentions are good and it is hard to say no to kids.  But I don't think you're helping the kids by buying stuff.  Something else is going on there and if you don't get at the root of the problem, you're not helping.

Powerful stuff right there.

[willn]

It might be worth pointing out to them that stuff like credit card bills can actually be skipped if it's between that and formula or the water bill... Those things should come first, debt repayment second.  Maybe if their credit get's shot enough, they won't have the credit cards anymore and will at least have to just spend what they bring in.

Right on.  Are they really so stupid they'd pay for their credit card bill before paying for water?  No, I smell an addiction going on here.

This is going to end badly, question is, do you prolong the end or do you hasten it so they can get on with becoming adults?