Author Topic: Stuck on best route for kid's savings  (Read 492 times)

KYFIRE

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Stuck on best route for kid's savings
« on: December 31, 2023, 07:45:40 AM »
Hi all,

Looking for advice from the immense knowledge base here.  Looking at kids' savings/investments including for a child with special needs but getting stuck in analysis paralysis.

Current situation:

M40; F39; ~$300k/annual income/~$7,500 monthly expenses (daycare/pre-K is almost $2k of that).  Set of twins going on 5.  Target is to be at least FIRE Lite ready in 7.5 years.  Only mortgage debt (~255k @2.49% / 200-250k in equity).  ~$900k in 401k, $120k in after tax investments; $75k cash/CDs. 

My wife and I are in the “some skin in the game” camp about saving for college.  We paid off $150k in student loans between us and didn’t come from families with a lot of money (definitely not enough to help pay for college).  We want to provide more than our parents could but want to put our retirement plan first, especially since we have a bit of ground to cover to achieve.

Where I’m getting stuck is that I’m not sure what is the best route, my concerns:

-KY does not offer any tax benefits for contributions to 529 accounts

-We’re in a higher tax bracket now, would traditional IRA be best?  Roth?

-My wife works at a university so our kids would have free tuition if she's still working there, and they want to go there (good programs for healthcare but not the best for STEM).

-My son who is autistic is considered a level 2 which means he is expected to require quite a bit of additional support throughout school, potentially after.  As he is young, we of course don’t know how he’ll develop and to what level of independence he will achieve.  We certainly are hoping for the best but need to plan for the worst.  With 529 we could always transfer from an education account to an ABLE account.  Again, a few unknowns at this point.

I’m just not sure what is best avenue to save specifically for them at this point.  Maybe a combination of 529 and traditional funds?

Thanks in advance for any feedback/insight.

Thanks,

reeshau

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Re: Stuck on best route for kid's savings
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2023, 01:18:28 PM »
You mention a lot about the kids, but what about your goals?  Are you looking to FIRE?  What age?  What are your plans, when you do?   What are your spouse's plans?

-We’re in a higher tax bracket now, would traditional IRA be best?  Roth?

This is a relative question.  Yes, you are in a high bracket now.  You also need to consider your bracket when withdrawing, in retirement.  If your spending stayed consistent, minus childcare, in retirement, then your bracket in retirement will be low.  If you are looking to do something big, like travel a lot or relocate to sun, then it might be closer than you think; it's not just federal income tax, but also Medicare impacts and changes in state taxes you should consider.

My DS is not special needs, but I think the ABLE account gives a great amount of flexibility for future planning.

KYFIRE

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Re: Stuck on best route for kid's savings
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2024, 01:53:51 PM »
My projections is FIRE ready at 48.  This coincides with my 25-year mark at my employer which gives me a nice benefit of covered health insurance until Medicare kicks in if I retire.  I really wish I could say what we would do at that time, but we're not entirely sure.  My wife is on board with early retirement but isn't sure she wishes to do so quite that early.  She worked very hard to get her degrees and utilize them, so she is driven by that.  For me, I'm driven by the opportunity for freedom to choose if I work or not or to start my own business where I can dedicate my time.  Unfortunately, neither of us have a specific passion so it has been a challenge to say what exactly we would do with the opportunity, but we agree we would like to have the option should we discover what exactly we want to do.

Due to both our aging parents we expect we will be in this area until, well frankly, they pass.  We would be looking at more travel, but our sons would still have several years of school left so it would be more extended vacations a couple times a year rather than up and moving.  Since that's the case we don't see our expenses changing by a significant amount in that time.  I suppose there is a risk that we develop an expensive hobby along the way, but I guess we'll have to evaluate it as we go.

reeshau

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Re: Stuck on best route for kid's savings
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2024, 09:50:33 PM »
If you were both going to FIRE, then there is definitely a possible play with a taxable brokerage, because MFJ can get $82k of LTCG at 0% federal tax.  The catch is that this is counted after regular income, so any other income up to that amount eats into the opportunity.  If your wife wants to keep working, the deal becomes the somewhat less-sweet 15% LTCG bracket.

But even if you are heavy on traditional IRA, it's not that bad.  You are withdrawing for your expenses, not taking a paycheck.  If child care goes away on FIRE, you are withdrawing roughly $60k.  Even if you took at 10% penalty, you would be net 22% tax.  And there are plenty of ways to blunt that, too; notably, a Roth conversion ladder.

FIRE at 48 gives you 12 years before you can access your 401k penalty free.  You could go down the route of SEPP payments, a Roth conversion ladder, etc.  They each are a kind of hoop to jump through to live in this phase of life; see which one seems to fit you best.

I myself FIRE'd at 48, in 2020.  I had a mix roughly of 40% tIRA, 30% Roth, and 30% taxable.  The mix was not fine tuned, but my strategy was tax diversification: to have a variety of tools in the toolbox, to apply to withdrawals and taxes as the rules change over time.  My taxable amount is enough to hold me through to 59 1/2.  It seemed a close fit in 2022, but it's comfortable, with a couple years to spare (or a couple big splurges, like a kitchen remodel) as I sit today.  I am also doing Roth conversions, primarily focused on soaking up my nonrefundable child tax credits, and balancing ACA subsidies.  A side effect is that I am building a Roth ladder, should the taxable fall short, but I don't expect to tap it in this phase.  Once the tIRA is the primary source of funding, I will use the Roths again to balance ACA costs, until I reach the age for Medicare.  In that phase, though, it will be withdrawals if I need funding, but I am approaching an ACA subsidy cliff.

I came into FIRE with a European severance.  That large cash cushion gave me the ultimate flexibility; as I learned my new tax situation by doing, I could have hypothetically had 4 years at $0 income, just living off of cash.  There is no optimal strategy that would suggest this, though; for me, I fell into it, but it opened up scenarios to consider--not in a serious attempt to so them, but more to think through the "what if?" possibilities.  As you get closer to FIRE, and with the cash you have to invest, you might even think that way, if flexibility brings you more comfort at night than return.

johnhenry

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Re: Stuck on best route for kid's savings
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2024, 10:24:08 AM »
We have 3 kids and live in KY.  We decided against 529s, for the time being we have:

Created accounts at treasurydirect.gov for each of the kids, which are sub-accounts to mine since they are minors.
The accounts are linked to their bank accounts so as excess bank savings (anything over a couple hundred$) they accumulate are moved into short to medium term treasury bills and notes for them, with a small mix of ibonds also.

Then, as soon as each kiddo has turned 7, we help them keep track of their earned income each year and make sure that full amount is moved over to their Roth IRAs.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!