Stripping off debt.

[Phoenixfires]

My husband and I have made some very bad financial choices this year. This poor decision making and childishness has left us in 15,000 in debt 6,000 loan on his 401k  and only 5,000 in saving with a failing oil field economy in Louisiana. Before Our marriage five year ago I was a feature entertainer in penthouse in New Orleans, after we married we moved closer to his family, and further away from New Orleans. His family knows I use to be a dancer. However in the wake of our financial disaster and no child care in our area and our children going to a private school with no buses coming as far as we live I cannot find a flexible job to earn money and it has come to me dancing or us not having enough money to eat. In about five month dancing I could pay off our debt and we could start trying to pay on his 401k loan. So in possibly a year we could be debt free. We are both ok with this job and is our only option at this point. The only problem is close minding people who assume all dancer are on drugs, or pandering. I am a mother of 4 and have never even seen a drug and would never endanger myself or belittle myself to pandering.  I just am torn of what people may think of me and find out or if i want to suck it up and just do it the next five years and pay off our home. Anyone have any advice? Also please dont say find another way , obliviously that is not a option as I have taken many night shift jobs and it just doesnt work now with my husbands mandatory traveling with his job and no help with our children. And please no bashing !! while exotic dancing may not be a choice you would make it is a choice that I have made to secure my families future.   I would appreciate if you could understand that I am still a human and I know its not the most moral thing to do and every second I am at work Is a living hell knowing what people think of  me when its so far from the truth.

[forummm]

I think you should make money however you want to. But I know there are social costs to certain occupations. Unfortunately, you'll have to decide for yourself if those costs are too expensive for you relative to the extra income.

What about your expenses? It sounds like maybe you could cut back a lot on your spending and maybe not even need a second job.

[mousebandit]

Before you resort to a job you admittedly don't want to do and call "hell", I would suggest you post a case study and let the community help you look for other ways to get out of the hole you're in.  :-)  Last year, when I found MMM, we were $30k in debt and barely treading water.  With a few (loving) facepunches, and lots of determination, we're paying off debt left and right, and will be debt-free including the mortgage in about 9 months!  Their ideas and suggestions absolutely WORK! 

MouseBandit

[Phoenixfires]

We have cut back everywhere we can. We have 1,600 in bills not counting groceries and gas. which is close to 800 together. We applied for foodstamps and they gave us 24$ woopie !! He brings home 27,000 a year and about 970 every two weeks. We dont have cable, we have republic wireless so I only pay 12$ a month for my phone and we can't really cut back on food because we have a child with a gluten allergy and i am type 1 diabetic so we are forced to eat healthy. all our clothes are used and I ride a bike to get groceries about 5 miles across town and we use the car maybe once a week and my husband drives 60 miles to work daily we do have two dogs that cost us around 23$ a month but we have had then for 7 years and could not part with them. We are just stuck right now. The economy here is so bad here. And thank you so much for the  NICE reply I was expecting to be destroyed :)

[Phoenixfires]

How do you do a case study ?

[forummm]

How do you do a case study ?

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/how-to-write-a-'case-study'-topic/

[mlr2016]

So you and your husband made poor financials decisions and now are looking at how to correct it.  It sounds like you have contemplated a few options on how to address this, but are set on dancing.  Look, in my opinion, if your husband is ok with it, that's all that should really matter.  I wouldn't rely on the opinion of those on an Internet forum to justify your actions.  You're an adult, you can make whatever choices in life you need to make to ensure your family is taken care of. 

Another thought that came to mind is what does your husband plan on doing to help pay off the debt?  Isn't he just as responsible as you for it?  Does he plan on getting a second job to help make payments towards it?  I know you mentioned he travels a lot, but he has to come home at some point. If I were him, I personally wouldn't want my wife to have to go back to dancing in order to earn a sufficient amount of income to tackle debt and basic living expenses.  I'd bust my butt and get a job at the local gas station working nights and weekends to ensure that didn't have to happen.

My two cents!

[Phoenixfires]

We have never discussed him getting a second job, the job his has now he has no idea when he will leave and for how long. And.... I usually pay all the bills and approve all purchases so I guess the debt is my fault so i wanted to be the one to fix it. I honestly dont like dancing but the money you make tends to numb the feelings a bit. That was a option because its fast money and we are in a crisis. We looked into getting our mortgage modified since we lost 12,000 in income the past two years but from what I heard from Dave Ramsey you have a better change of winning the lottery than getting a mortgage modification. and... we cannot down size we have a very modest home and our mortgage payment (675)  Is the amount of rent for a small 1970  trailer in our area. And we have paid it down to 88,000 i would probably make close to that in two years of dancing part time. ( 2-3x aweek)

[forummm]

I wouldn't believe everything Dave Ramsey says. I'm pretty sure that there were tens of thousands of mortgage modifications and not tens of thousands of Powerball winners.

[phred]

that's the problem with living in a small town; you will forever be known as "that woman". 
You said no child care is available, but that you moved to be closer to family.  Can "family" watch the children?
Have you considered putting the children into public school for a year?  You can make up the temporary education shortfall by having them read a book a week.
Dancing for only five months?  If you can discipline yourself not to buy anything, I would say go for it.  Working in your vegetable garden will be a good way to relieve the stress.
A sixty mile drive to work is kind of a haul.
Where will you dance, and are you sure it will pay New Orleans wages?

[mozar]

Will you be traveling to New Orleans to dance? That might not be worth it with commuting costs. How often does your husband travel? You could cut down on commuting cost by moving closer to his job if he goes there regularly. Do you have access to a car? You could try driving for uber. Have you heard of pole dancing lessons?  I bet you could charge those private school moms a lot of money to teach them how. If your husband's family isn't willing to help there is no point living close to them, you both need to be near jobs. Most importantly take a deep breath. The best way to prevent another crises is to start thinking long term and optimize your lifestyle.

[little_brown_dog]

As a woman, I fully 100% support however a woman wants to work as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. So yes, that means I am pro-exotic dancing. If you can find an arrangement where you are respected by the establishment and they take their job of protecting you seriously (bouncing men who harass, stalk, act inappropriate, etc) then I think it's a great idea given that you are willing to do it. I wish my body was dance worthy after having a baby!

That being said, only you know your family and your social circle. If you think your occupation will cause problems, it is something to consider. However, I would hope that the people who matter to you, like your friends and family, would not be that shallow. Everyone else can stuff it. Really, women are just damned no matter what they do. Be a stay at home mom? You are a leech. Exotic dance and provide for your family? Low morals. Work as a CEO and put baby in daycare? Not raising your baby. It just goes round and round until you realize, no matter what you do, someone somewhere is going to look down on you for it. So don't let society's stupid rules make this decision for you. Weigh the pros and cons for your unique situation and do what is right for you.

There is absolutely no shame in being resourceful, and that's what you are doing. Resourcefulness is what we prize on this forum, so if you can use your assets to care for yourself and your family, I think you will find that most people here will applaud you for it and not look down on you.

[mousebandit]

I would still suggest that you post a detailed case study.  There's a lot of generalized suggestions, but upon seeing the details and the numbers, there would be some much more detailed suggestions and action steps you could take.  Sounds like you're working with low-income and are working hard to minimize expenses, so you're heading in the right direction.  Specifics could help give you the edge you need to get on top of the situation and start making some significant progress. 

But for general suggestions, I'd say do what you can to lose the commute.  Is the commuter car paid off, or is there a loan against it?  Does it get super-excellent gas mileage?  I'd start focusing on that.  Compare what you could get for your house if you sold it and what you could buy within a couple of miles of husband's job.  Analyze those numbers with what is getting thrown away on the commute right now. 

I would definitely say that private school should be reconsidered.  How much are you spending monthly on that?  Are all 4 kids attending?  How are the public schools?  If they're safe, just on the low-achievement side, I would consider that for a while.  You can easily supplement the education side of things at home yourself.  If the schools are flat-out not safe, I would consider homeschooling the kids.  It can be done for cheap or free (most states have online charter school options that are free and provide lots of benefits you might like).  How are the kids getting to school (I think you said no buses come out there)?  Are you all riding bikes to drop them off, or are they being driven by someone?  I would definitely look at the total costs involved in the private school option, and consider public or homeschool, at least for the next year, until your finances are back on the right track. 

You husband is in a shaky industry, I think you said, and not making a huge salary, plus commuting a long way on top of that.  Have you guys talked about other career options for him?  What is his job, and what skills does he have that can be applied towards something else?  What sort of jobs and careers does he enjoy?  What's the hot industry in your region right now?  With 4 kids and a desire for public school, I would DEFINITELY say that husband's income needs to go higher.  Start considering ways to achieve that. 

How old are the kids?  If you're husband isn't available to watch them in the evenings, you'll be looking at off-hours childcare for 4 children while you dance.  That will not be cheap. 

All that said, if you WANT to return to dancing, then that is you and your husband's decision.  There will be consequences in social circles and to your reputation.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if the private school admins would highly frown on the situation, should they find out (and my guess is, they'll find out, LOL).  You need to accept those consequences if you go back down that road. 

If you truly DON'T WANT to return to dancing, but are feeling  financially trapped, then FIND ANOTHER WAY.  There is always another way.  The folks here can help you find that way, if that's what you want. 

Either way, I do wish you the best of luck!

MouseBandit

[Phoenixfires]

Private school is no cost out of pocket to us, we were awarded scholarships and only pay $90 per year for three kids. That Is absolutely our of the question as the public school are a disaster in our area and are all F schools.

Yes I will commute to new Orleans right now is the slow season in the Quarter so I will probably start in Baton rouge and closer to football season work in the quarter.

Husbands family live 5 miles from us but they are very active grandparents an dboth work so not much help. There selfish assholes if you want an honest opinion.

I will post a detailed case study on Sunday  I have A lot to get together to make it accurate as possible.

[lizzzi]

As a woman, I fully 100% support however a woman wants to work as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. So yes, that means I am pro-exotic dancing. If you can find an arrangement where you are respected by the establishment and they take their job of protecting you seriously (bouncing men who harass, stalk, act inappropriate, etc) then I think it's a great idea given that you are willing to do it. I wish my body was dance worthy after having a baby!

That being said, only you know your family and your social circle. If you think your occupation will cause problems, it is something to consider. However, I would hope that the people who matter to you, like your friends and family, would not be that shallow. Everyone else can stuff it. Really, women are just damned no matter what they do. Be a stay at home mom? You are a leech. Exotic dance and provide for your family? Low morals. Work as a CEO and put baby in daycare? Not raising your baby. It just goes round and round until you realize, no matter what you do, someone somewhere is going to look down on you for it. So don't let society's stupid rules make this decision for you. Weigh the pros and cons for your unique situation and do what is right for you.

There is absolutely no shame in being resourceful, and that's what you are doing. Resourcefulness is what we prize on this forum, so if you can use your assets to care for yourself and your family, I think you will find that most people here will applaud you for it and not look down on you.

This. +1

[Dezrah]

... and I know its not the most moral thing to do and every second I am at work Is a living hell knowing what people think of  me when its so far from the truth.

While I personally don’t believe there’s anything Morally Wrong with stripping, I think it’s problematic that you do.  To that end, I’ll ask for a little clarification on how you actually feel about dancing:

I don’t think it’s morally wrong to kill a chicken for purposes of eating it but I would rather not take it as a job because the job would make me uncomfortable and miserable.  If my friends, family, or future children found out and confronted me about it, I would respond that it was a crappy time but I did what I had to do and I don’t feel guilty about it.

I do think it’s morally wrong to verbally abuse children and would not feel good about participating in a daycare job where I had to use that as a form of control.  If my friends, family, or future children found out and confronted me about it, I would feel deeply ashamed, remorseful, and depressed.

What is dancing to you?  If it’s like the first job where it just has some parts you don’t like that make it awful, then you just need to work on gaining the confidence to dismiss what other people think while you do what you have to do.  If it feels closer to the second job where you feel truly ashamed, then don’t do it.  No amount of money is worth that part of your spirit.

[Phoenixfires]

I know It was a beautiful response and exactly what I needed to hear. I fully expected to be torn apart with judgement but this community is very inviting.

[Phoenixfires]

well. You have great nights where guys are respectful and you make good money. Then you have times that you are treated like dirt, groped, verbally assaulted and you make no money. personally I have never worked at a nude club and keep my bottom parts covered very well and wear pasties. I am very confident in how I look and get told everyday how beutiful i am, I know I have a shelf life and this is the time I need to try and make the most money possible to unsure my kids dont have too pay for college or ever strip !!! I want us to be in a place where we are not slaves to debt and I will do anything in legal means to do it. What bothers me tho Is being judged a promiscuous or judged negatively but at this point I am the point that that I want my house paid off in 8 years and dancing may be the only way to dump the debt. I am 28 I probably only have about 5 good years left. lol Someone said my kids may be kicked out of private school. I dont plan on announcing my part time job to the world and it is not a Christian private school. I will be dancing about a hour from where I live and Im sure at some point someone will walk in I know but at the same time They are in there and most guys dont want to announce to the world how they know a girl dances. There are meth addicts children taht attend this school and pretty sure that worse that shaking tail for money to pay off debt. Thanfully I am good girl and have a lot of knowledge and I can work this job and not let it effect my life.

[mozar]

Someone said my kids may be kicked out of private school.

That person is a bully! gee whiz it bothers me so much when people say mean things like that. It's tough dealing with ignorant neighbors.

The whole situation doesn't seem worth it to me. If your kids can get scholarships to private schools where you live, can't they get scholarships to private schools somewhere else? What about some B schools if you can't get into A public schools?
http://www.nola.com/education/index.ssf/2014/10/new_orleans_best_and_worst_pub.html

What bothers me most is your husband. You can have anything you want in life but not everything.
Here's what he wants, in no particular order:

1. A sexy wife
2. 4 kids!
3. 3 kids in private school
4. A relatively low wage job with lots of travel
5. Live near family (who don't help, what is he getting out of this relationship?)
6. Live where there are no job opportunities for the wife

You need to tell your husband that your family is drowning financially, and something has got to give. You should move as close to possible to New Orleans. If you still want to dance, hey, make it rain.

[11ducks]

I know It was a beautiful response and exactly what I needed to hear. I fully expected to be torn apart with judgement but this community is very inviting.

Haha, you probably won't get ripped apart for the job, you're more likely to get judged for spending too much on dancing outfits, you'll have folks calculating the cost per inch of fabric for your outfits, and debating whether you can diy pasties and if secondhand clear glittery heels are a reasonable option.

[Goldielocks]

well. You have great nights where guys are respectful and you make good money. Then you have times that you are treated like dirt, groped, verbally assaulted and you make no money. personally I have never worked at a nude club and keep my bottom parts covered very well and wear pasties. I am very confident in how I look and get told everyday how beutiful i am, I know I have a shelf life and this is the time I need to try and make the most money possible to unsure my kids dont have too pay for college or ever strip !!! I want us to be in a place where we are not slaves to debt and I will do anything in legal means to do it. What bothers me tho Is being judged a promiscuous or judged negatively but at this point I am the point that that I want my house paid off in 8 years and dancing may be the only way to dump the debt. I am 28 I probably only have about 5 good years left. lol Someone said my kids may be kicked out of private school. I dont plan on announcing my part time job to the world and it is not a Christian private school. I will be dancing about a hour from where I live and Im sure at some point someone will walk in I know but at the same time They are in there and most guys dont want to announce to the world how they know a girl dances. There are meth addicts children taht attend this school and pretty sure that worse that shaking tail for money to pay off debt. Thanfully I am good girl and have a lot of knowledge and I can work this job and not let it effect my life.

Well,   I assumed it was a nude club because that is all we have around here (and Burlesque shows where couples will go for an entertaining evening out...).  To me, this is quite a bit different, more like a dance troupe these days.

So,  here is my thought.   If I was your neighbor and knew you danced, I would feel threatened and unattractive next to you.   I would find it a bit threatening, BUT no more so than having a neighbor that played "sexy mom" around the neighborhood.

So, if you can leave the "sexy" persona at work, keep your professional role at work, but have the interaction and "earthiness" of a "MOM" image around home, (and I don't think you are flirting with my DH or he you).  Then no problem.     As long as I can relate with you as real person with similar values (kids, family, school, community service, kindess, etc).

[dreams_and_discoveries]

I'm liberal and open minded, and would say if it's what you real want to do, go for it.

It sounds like you are very aware of the downsides and small town attitudes you could face - like the poster above feeling threatened and being the subject of gossip.

You have your expenses down reasonably low already and don't have many other income generation options at the moment. What are your thought on retraining for the longer term, especially if dancing is only a short term fix?

[former player]

I agree that a full case study could be a big help.  One thing that occurs to me is that with an income of $27k per year and four kids you should not be paying much or anything in the way of income tax, so it might be worth checking out what taxes are being withheld from that income and whether you can reduce it without being stuck with a big tax bill at the end of the year.  Did you get a refund on last year's taxes, given the reduction in income?

Other than being stuck with the big commute, your expenses seem to be on the badass side of reasonable.  Paying extra on the mortgage is something to worry about for later, when your family is back on track financially, but paying off the other debts would be a big practical and psychological improvement.

Are you able to discuss the situation with your husband's parents?  They must know how things are in the oil industry and the financial and practical strain of their son's commute.  If their choice is either stepping up to the plate on childcare or thinking that their grandchildren's mother might go back to dancing it's possible they would put a bit more effort or money into providing childcare.  It would need to be done with care but might be a way of making that small-town attitude work to your benefit.  (Adding here that I don't share that small-town attitude and think there is nothing morally wrong with the kind of dancing you describe, other than the two-faced attitude as between dancers and audience.)

[Vagabond76]

I agree that a full case study could be a big help.  One thing that occurs to me is that with an income of $27k per year and four kids you should not be paying much or anything in the way of income tax, so it might be worth checking out what taxes are being withheld from that income and whether you can reduce it without being stuck with a big tax bill at the end of the year.  Did you get a refund on last year's taxes, given the reduction in income?

With $27k income and being married with four kids, if done right they should have no taxable income and over $9k in refundable Earned Income and Child Tax credits.

[Rezdent]

Be careful of the pitfalls of the dancing environment.  I think they are far more worrisome than anything else.

The three pitfalls I've seen are:
1.  It's a party mentality.  There seems to be tremendous pressure from clients and other dancers to let loose, have fun, and money seems to slip through dancer's hands.  Alcohol and party drugs are often offered.  Staying clean and frugal is difficult.

2.  You are right that dancers have a shelf life.  But the dancing takes up valuable time that could be spent learning and building a career.  Too many dancers wake up and they are in their thirties with no marketable job skills.

3.  The job strains even wonderful marriages. 

At least recognize that these things can permanently derail your life, and leave you in a worse position than you are in now.  Decide now to avoid these issues, and have a plan to bail immediately if you find yourself slipping.  Also, make plans now to obtain a skill while dancing - and follow through on those plans.

[Cannot Wait!]

Congrats to you for still having a marketable body after 4 kids!  Wow.
You've already been a dancer so you know what you can make.  You understand the pitfalls of the industry and you don't seem worried about those  (tempted by drugs, infidelity, etc) .  People in your town probably know your past - it being a small town and you said your inlaws know ....  Haters just gonna hate so don't worry about them. 
To me, the question is the same as for a lot of people on here.  Are you willing to do a hellish job for a certain amount of time to make financial gains?   Whether it's in a cubicle or around a pole, it's about selling your soul for a dollar.

[Jtrey17]

I think you should do whatever you're comfortable with. Society shouldn't have an opinion on your choice of money making. If you can write, a blog of your progress and experiences would be interesting to read!

My husband and I have made some very bad financial choices this year. This poor decision making and childishness has left us in 15,000 in debt 6,000 loan on his 401k  and only 5,000 in saving with a failing oil field economy in Louisiana. Before Our marriage five year ago I was a feature entertainer in penthouse in New Orleans, after we married we moved closer to his family, and further away from New Orleans. His family knows I use to be a dancer. However in the wake of our financial disaster and no child care in our area and our children going to a private school with no buses coming as far as we live I cannot find a flexible job to earn money and it has come to me dancing or us not having enough money to eat. In about five month dancing I could pay off our debt and we could start trying to pay on his 401k loan. So in possibly a year we could be debt free. We are both ok with this job and is our only option at this point. The only problem is close minding people who assume all dancer are on drugs, or pandering. I am a mother of 4 and have never even seen a drug and would never endanger myself or belittle myself to pandering.  I just am torn of what people may think of me and find out or if i want to suck it up and just do it the next five years and pay off our home. Anyone have any advice? Also please dont say find another way , obliviously that is not a option as I have taken many night shift jobs and it just doesnt work now with my husbands mandatory traveling with his job and no help with our children. And please no bashing !! while exotic dancing may not be a choice you would make it is a choice that I have made to secure my families future.   I would appreciate if you could understand that I am still a human and I know its not the most moral thing to do and every second I am at work Is a living hell knowing what people think of  me when its so far from the truth.

[MrsPete]

Two questions -- not questions that you have to answer to me, but questions you should face for yourself:

- If you truly thought this was a good idea, would you have needed to rationalize it so strongly in your intro post? 
- If 15-20 year from now your daughter were making this same choice, would you think she was doing the right thing? 

[Dezrah]

well. You have great nights where guys are respectful and you make good money. Then you have times that you are treated like dirt, groped, verbally assaulted and you make no money. personally I have never worked at a nude club and keep my bottom parts covered very well and wear pasties. I am very confident in how I look and get told everyday how beutiful i am, I know I have a shelf life and this is the time I need to try and make the most money possible to unsure my kids dont have too pay for college or ever strip !!! I want us to be in a place where we are not slaves to debt and I will do anything in legal means to do it. What bothers me tho Is being judged a promiscuous or judged negatively but at this point I am the point that that I want my house paid off in 8 years and dancing may be the only way to dump the debt. I am 28 I probably only have about 5 good years left. lol Someone said my kids may be kicked out of private school. I dont plan on announcing my part time job to the world and it is not a Christian private school. I will be dancing about a hour from where I live and Im sure at some point someone will walk in I know but at the same time They are in there and most guys dont want to announce to the world how they know a girl dances. There are meth addicts children taht attend this school and pretty sure that worse that shaking tail for money to pay off debt. Thanfully I am good girl and have a lot of knowledge and I can work this job and not let it effect my life.

Well,   I assumed it was a nude club because that is all we have around here (and Burlesque shows where couples will go for an entertaining evening out...).  To me, this is quite a bit different, more like a dance troupe these days.

So,  here is my thought.   If I was your neighbor and knew you danced, I would feel threatened and unattractive next to you.   I would find it a bit threatening, BUT no more so than having a neighbor that played "sexy mom" around the neighborhood.

So, if you can leave the "sexy" persona at work, keep your professional role at work, but have the interaction and "earthiness" of a "MOM" image around home, (and I don't think you are flirting with my DH or he you).  Then no problem.     As long as I can relate with you as real person with similar values (kids, family, school, community service, kindess, etc).

While this comment is honest I still see it as a step in the wrong direction.  Obviously we’re talking about hypothetical reactions to non-existent people, so I’m not actually directing these comments at goldielocks.  This is more of a general comment about letting other people’s opinions affect you.

Taking umbrage with the Sexy Mom because she is sexy, whether she earns money from that sexiness or not, is very problematic.  It’s not okay for society to tell a woman that she is only acceptable if she looks or acts in a particular way.  Displaying outward pride and comfort in one’s body is not a harmful act, whether that body is more earthy or sexy.

If Neighbor sees Sexy Mom and feels inadequate, then frankly that’s Neighbor’s problem; they’re the one who has to change their outlook.  It’s not Sexy Mom’s responsibility to cater to the insecurities of those around her.  And even if Sexy Mom did flirt with Husband, it still shouldn’t matter to Neighbor.  It’s Husband’s responsibility to make the boundaries clear and disengage if said boundaries are not respected.  If Husband is tempted away it’s because he allowed it to happen and Neighbor should be more concerned about him than Sexy Mom. 

Now if Sexy Mom and Neighbor just don’t have anything in common, fine; they don’t have to be friends.  If Sexy Mom looks around her and realizes she has absolutely nothing in common with those around her and is subsequently lonely, then it’s time for her to consider expanding her world by actively developing commonalities or relocating to a place where she finds more people she can relate to.

My point is the OP needs to be comfortable with who she is, how she looks, and what she does for a living regardless of what anyone else around her thinks.

[Goldielocks]

well. You have great nights where guys are respectful and you make good money. Then you have times that you are treated like dirt, groped, verbally assaulted and you make no money. personally I have never worked at a nude club and keep my bottom parts covered very well and wear pasties. I am very confident in how I look and get told everyday how beutiful i am, I know I have a shelf life and this is the time I need to try and make the most money possible to unsure my kids dont have too pay for college or ever strip !!! I want us to be in a place where we are not slaves to debt and I will do anything in legal means to do it. What bothers me tho Is being judged a promiscuous or judged negatively but at this point I am the point that that I want my house paid off in 8 years and dancing may be the only way to dump the debt. I am 28 I probably only have about 5 good years left. lol Someone said my kids may be kicked out of private school. I dont plan on announcing my part time job to the world and it is not a Christian private school. I will be dancing about a hour from where I live and Im sure at some point someone will walk in I know but at the same time They are in there and most guys dont want to announce to the world how they know a girl dances. There are meth addicts children taht attend this school and pretty sure that worse that shaking tail for money to pay off debt. Thanfully I am good girl and have a lot of knowledge and I can work this job and not let it effect my life.

Well,   I assumed it was a nude club because that is all we have around here (and Burlesque shows where couples will go for an entertaining evening out...).  To me, this is quite a bit different, more like a dance troupe these days.

So,  here is my thought.   If I was your neighbor and knew you danced, I would feel threatened and unattractive next to you.   I would find it a bit threatening, BUT no more so than having a neighbor that played "sexy mom" around the neighborhood.

So, if you can leave the "sexy" persona at work, keep your professional role at work, but have the interaction and "earthiness" of a "MOM" image around home, (and I don't think you are flirting with my DH or he you).  Then no problem.     As long as I can relate with you as real person with similar values (kids, family, school, community service, kindess, etc).

While this comment is honest I still see it as a step in the wrong direction.  Obviously we’re talking about hypothetical reactions to non-existent people, so I’m not actually directing these comments at goldielocks.  This is more of a general comment about letting other people’s opinions affect you.

Taking umbrage with the Sexy Mom because she is sexy, whether she earns money from that sexiness or not, is very problematic.  It’s not okay for society to tell a woman that she is only acceptable if she looks or acts in a particular way.  Displaying outward pride and comfort in one’s body is not a harmful act, whether that body is more earthy or sexy.

If Neighbor sees Sexy Mom and feels inadequate, then frankly that’s Neighbor’s problem; they’re the one who has to change their outlook.  It’s not Sexy Mom’s responsibility to cater to the insecurities of those around her.  And even if Sexy Mom did flirt with Husband, it still shouldn’t matter to Neighbor.  It’s Husband’s responsibility to make the boundaries clear and disengage if said boundaries are not respected.  If Husband is tempted away it’s because he allowed it to happen and Neighbor should be more concerned about him than Sexy Mom. 

Now if Sexy Mom and Neighbor just don’t have anything in common, fine; they don’t have to be friends.  If Sexy Mom looks around her and realizes she has absolutely nothing in common with those around her and is subsequently lonely, then it’s time for her to consider expanding her world by actively developing commonalities or relocating to a place where she finds more people she can relate to.

My point is the OP needs to be comfortable with who she is, how she looks, and what she does for a living regardless of what anyone else around her thinks.

You are right of course.  But that is not how human nature generally works, now is it?  (except for the last sentence)

[little_brown_dog]

well. You have great nights where guys are respectful and you make good money. Then you have times that you are treated like dirt, groped, verbally assaulted and you make no money. personally I have never worked at a nude club and keep my bottom parts covered very well and wear pasties. I am very confident in how I look and get told everyday how beutiful i am, I know I have a shelf life and this is the time I need to try and make the most money possible to unsure my kids dont have too pay for college or ever strip !!! I want us to be in a place where we are not slaves to debt and I will do anything in legal means to do it. What bothers me tho Is being judged a promiscuous or judged negatively but at this point I am the point that that I want my house paid off in 8 years and dancing may be the only way to dump the debt. I am 28 I probably only have about 5 good years left. lol Someone said my kids may be kicked out of private school. I dont plan on announcing my part time job to the world and it is not a Christian private school. I will be dancing about a hour from where I live and Im sure at some point someone will walk in I know but at the same time They are in there and most guys dont want to announce to the world how they know a girl dances. There are meth addicts children taht attend this school and pretty sure that worse that shaking tail for money to pay off debt. Thanfully I am good girl and have a lot of knowledge and I can work this job and not let it effect my life.

Well,   I assumed it was a nude club because that is all we have around here (and Burlesque shows where couples will go for an entertaining evening out...).  To me, this is quite a bit different, more like a dance troupe these days.

So,  here is my thought.   If I was your neighbor and knew you danced, I would feel threatened and unattractive next to you.   I would find it a bit threatening, BUT no more so than having a neighbor that played "sexy mom" around the neighborhood.

So, if you can leave the "sexy" persona at work, keep your professional role at work, but have the interaction and "earthiness" of a "MOM" image around home, (and I don't think you are flirting with my DH or he you).  Then no problem.     As long as I can relate with you as real person with similar values (kids, family, school, community service, kindess, etc).

While this comment is honest I still see it as a step in the wrong direction.  Obviously we’re talking about hypothetical reactions to non-existent people, so I’m not actually directing these comments at goldielocks.  This is more of a general comment about letting other people’s opinions affect you.

Taking umbrage with the Sexy Mom because she is sexy, whether she earns money from that sexiness or not, is very problematic.  It’s not okay for society to tell a woman that she is only acceptable if she looks or acts in a particular way.  Displaying outward pride and comfort in one’s body is not a harmful act, whether that body is more earthy or sexy.

If Neighbor sees Sexy Mom and feels inadequate, then frankly that’s Neighbor’s problem; they’re the one who has to change their outlook.  It’s not Sexy Mom’s responsibility to cater to the insecurities of those around her.  And even if Sexy Mom did flirt with Husband, it still shouldn’t matter to Neighbor.  It’s Husband’s responsibility to make the boundaries clear and disengage if said boundaries are not respected.  If Husband is tempted away it’s because he allowed it to happen and Neighbor should be more concerned about him than Sexy Mom. 

Now if Sexy Mom and Neighbor just don’t have anything in common, fine; they don’t have to be friends.  If Sexy Mom looks around her and realizes she has absolutely nothing in common with those around her and is subsequently lonely, then it’s time for her to consider expanding her world by actively developing commonalities or relocating to a place where she finds more people she can relate to.

My point is the OP needs to be comfortable with who she is, how she looks, and what she does for a living regardless of what anyone else around her thinks.

You are right of course.  But that is not how human nature generally works, now is it?  (except for the last sentence)

I don’t know –  I rarely feel threatened by women that are more beautiful than me, and I'd suspect that most ladies with decent self esteem are probably similar. I may feel a little down about myself (“aw man I wish my stomach was that flat, now I feel pudgy!”) but I do not feel threatened, as if the woman is going to steal something/take something from me. For me there is a big difference between feeling self conscious and feeling threatened. Feeling threatened means you are deeply insecure, whereas feeling self conscious sometimes is completely normal. I also think women who are more insecure would also be more likely to misconstrue a pretty woman's natural behavior as threatening. If a pretty woman smiles, she's "flirting." If she nicely talks to the husband, she is "seducing him." If she dresses nicely because she likes a certain outfit, she is "trying to get attention." But if that woman was not particularly beautiful, then we would think nothing of it. It's almost like a weird type of discrimination or prejudice.

It all gets back to what I was saying earlier - women are damned if they do, damned if they don't no matter who they are. If you are not slender, with feminine balanced features, nice skin and hair, and cute outfits you are considered unattractive, frumpy, or lacking. But if you are all of those things, then you are threatening, flirtatious, tempting, or attention seeking. Or maybe you are very attractive but go to great pains to be very modest and unassuming. Well now you are a goody-two-shoes or maybe we suspect you lack confidence. No matter what you do, someone is pissed at you or finding you deficient in some way. It is annoying as hell.

[Goldielocks]

Rather than embed more quotes... I will say this -- being sexy is different from being beautiful.  AND is it not about the clothing.
Little_brown_dog and Dezra, I think you have taken my comments out of context.

My comments about "Sexy Mom" are about an attitude.   I put them out there to showcase that a person's day job has much less to do with this (human nature reaction within a group of women)  issue.  It is about one's mannerisms and first impressions.   We can all present ourselves as we want to be seen, and we can be different in different situations (work versus home for most of us).

Therefore, the day job, whatever it is, should not prevent having exactly the life that you want.

Of course, there are the bigots and "purists" who don't even need to meet you to pass a judgement, but thankfully, those are much fewer in number and can be effectively ignored, I find (unless of course they are related to you).  AND, most others around you want to ignore them too.

[mozar]

It all gets back to what I was saying earlier - women are damned if they do, damned if they don't no matter who they are. If you are not slender, with feminine balanced features, nice skin and hair, and cute outfits you are considered unattractive, frumpy, or lacking. But if you are all of those things, then you are threatening, flirtatious, tempting, or attention seeking. Or maybe you are very attractive but go to great pains to be very modest and unassuming. Well now you are a goody-two-shoes or maybe we suspect you lack confidence. No matter what you do, someone is pissed at you or finding you deficient in some way. It is annoying as hell.

This is basically my life.