Stories wanted from people who have moved from HCOL to LCOL

[Archipelago]

Lived in the northeast my whole life. Have really started thinking about settling down. We currently rent a 1 bedroom 700 square ft apartment for $1250/month and are only able to do so from finding a rental in a good area by luck. Most rentals in our area are snatched up immediately. We have an under 1% rental vacancy rate in the state.

A 3/2 1700 square starter home is around $450k and generally will need $30-$50k in updates. These houses receive several offers over asking price and waive all inspections. Very little new housing being built. When it is, it starts at $300/square not including land which is around $80-$100k for a 1 acre lot. The wages where we live are considerably lower with respect to mortgage and housing expenses.

Well, lately we’ve visited greater Indianapolis area and were flabbergasted with how much housing is available, and how much more relatively affordable it is. One can buy a 3000 square house for roughly $450k in a town with reputable schools, newish house that needs almost no updates, has all new bathrooms/kitchen, central air, etc. all for an estimated mortgage payment of $3000/month.

Actually, when we were looking through listings, we filtered out most of them because these houses are way too big. 3000 square is enormous and is way too much for us. We could absolutely find a 2000-2200 square house for $350k or $400k.

This has really got me starting to wonder whether relocating to LCOL is a hell of a lot more compatible with a minimal lifestyle. I still can’t wrap my head around the thought that a house can be purchased on a single income. I always thought that was an ideal of the past. Visiting out here in the Midwest it feels real and attainable.

My wife’s position pays 10% less in comparison. My job has nothing to do with location and has no difference in pay by locality. Something doesn’t seem to add up.

If we continued to live in HCOL area, would we actually be able to buy a house without 2 high incomes or being house poor? What if one of us wanted to stay at home with the kids? What if one of us got sick or lost our jobs? What if neither of us were too interested in climbing career ladders to earn more money and wanted to focus on home life, community & hobbies instead? These are very real questions. Please weigh in and help!

Has anyone moved to a LCOL area and enjoyed it or even regretted it? We are coming up to some major life decisions when it comes to settling down and starting a family. Any advice would be helpful.

[jrhampt]

I have lived in a couple of lower cost of living areas for various reasons before returning to the northeast.  I found that it is possible to find fun things to do pretty much anywhere if you look hard enough, and every place has its own specialty, but in some senses you do get what you pay for.  Right now you live in a state that is a giant outdoor playground (I have been up to NH the past 5 weekends hiking the 48), and you visited Indianapolis, which is probably not the only LCOL place you might be considering, but...I have family in Indiana, and it is FLAT as a board.  So flat.  Not a whole lot of outdoor recreation there compared to where you are now.  It is possible to find outdoor playground LCOL areas like eastern TN, but you also may not have as much access to things like the medical services that you may have access to now.  If you want to live in a place where other people want to live, housing is more expensive.  There is often a very good reason lots of people want to live there, too.  That reason may or may not matter as much to you as being able to afford nicer housing, but affordable housing in a less desirable location is not always the way to go, depending on your priorities.

[JupiterGreen]

Having lived in a LCOL area for the past two decades, I do not recommend it, housing is only one aspect. Things like regulations on pollution, terrible health care, terrible dental care, ignorance/education not being prioritized, chain stores in a specific order so that every place looks like every place (capitalism? not sure why this is), monopolies for us it was energy so that we paid some of the highest energy prices, there is natural beauty everywhere in the US but the residents don't care to preserve nature or the legislature has a lock and is so strong they are able to sell it to frackers, coal, logging corporations and the water to Nestle (this is a US issue that absolutely impacts everyone but has distinct local imapcts)... If you must go, I would consider the upper midwest like MI or WI, but I would choose my location very carefully. I recently moved back to civilization, and you'll have to pry my dead body from this glorious northeast state. It's worth billions more than it costs. Y'all have been taking it for granted.

edit: Though I do wish people from the coasts would go for a little bit to the south and middle to have the experience and see the results of certain policies.   

[Freedomin5]

We are moving from a VHCOL city to a MCOL city. We couldn’t be more pleased with our decision.

I think why we are successful is because we did A TON of research before deciding on a city. We had very clear ideas of what was important us and how we wanted our life to look like, so we were able to evaluate the cities to determine which ones would allow us to best live out our values and provide us with the amenities we wanted.

For us, we wanted to be close to my family and relatively far from DH’s family. We wanted to be near a major medical center for my health issues, and lots of parks and green space. We visited the churches and the schools, and became friends with people who lived in the city, then asked lots of questions and just listened to the locals talking about their city. We learned about the major problems and what the locals tend to gripe about. We could then decide whether those were issues or dealbreakers for us.

We also researched specific neighborhoods within the city and found out which ones the high income earners lived in, which ones the white collar families gravitated towards, school ratings, which ones had the schools that housed the special (gifted and IB) programs, which ones the doctors who worked at the hospital and the university professors lived in, walkability to grocery stores, library, etc. Again, this data helped us decide based on factors that were important to us.


Then we visited each of the neighborhoods and walked through the neighborhood to get a feel for them. We noted anything that didn’t come up in research (eg, number of unhoused folks sitting outside the library, busyness of traffic on the main arteries, etc.).

If you know what you want and what you’re looking for in a city, it makes it easy to determine whether you might enjoy living in a particular city.

[FINate]

I don't think it's as simple as HCOL --> LCOL is good or bad. It all depends on specific details: what each location offers, what makes them high or low cost, what you personally value.

We moved from VHCOL ($1.2M median home price) to MCOL ($500k-ish) and this was a massive improvement in our lifestyle and overall well-being.

The VHCOL place was a tourist beach town in California where DW and I were born and raised.  We aren't beach people, don't really enjoy the ocean. I prefer real mountains, mountain biking, winter sports and alpine environments.

So we moved to Boise a little over 4 years ago and haven't looked back. This allowed us to buy a home in the North End historic district between the foothills and downtown. We can walk and bike most places. I have ~200 miles of amazing mountain biking/hiking trails a few blocks from home. Skiing is 15 miles up the road. It takes us about 5 minutes to bike to downtown, which is safe and clean with tons of restaurants and shopping. The schools are great. This is the more expensive part of town, but a comparable situation in our former city would cost 3x.

Focus on value, not absolute cost. There are some small LCOL cities in Idaho with beautiful scenery that are very remote with limited employment opportunities. Such places are great for those that are FIRE/remote-work and like the isolation and don't mind the lack of amenities. Whereas many others would be miserable there. For us, a mountain adjacent mid-size metro has all the urban qualities we value with easy access to the outdoors at a fraction of the cost of our former VHCOL town.

Finally, I would pay attention to specific neighborhoods. IMO it's better to live in a nicer neighborhood in a less expensive city vs. a rough neighborhood in a more expensive city. We could have saved even more money by moving to the out suburbs here, which would have been fine though a less positive experience overall because we really value walking and biking.

[Metalcat]

There is so much variation between the individual locations within each category, it's impossible to generalize.

The key thing is to understand why an area is less popular and decide if you're okay with that reason, and why an area is more popular, and be okay with not having that.

I personally live in both an HCOL and an LCOL region. I have a small condo downtown in a major city for access to healthcare and other amenities when needed, and I have an absolutely dirt cheap detached home in an LCOL region that I actually prefer most of the time. The LCOL region is unpopular because the medical access sucks, it's very remote, there are no jobs, and the weather the majority of the year is atrocious. The medical access is the primary reason I maintain the condo though, the rest of it doesn't bother me.

I prefer the LCOL region because the culture and nature are spectacular, really, truly spectacular. I live in a tiny fishing village of about 170 people next to a larger fishing village of around 2000 people. It has a hospital, but, like, barely, and I have complex health issues, so that's tricky. But other than that, it has everything I need. It's LCOL, but it's not a poor community, it's one of the wealthiest communities in the region, and there's A LOT there. It's a major international tourist destination, so a lot of money comes into the little system.

A nearby fishing village has no tourism and has virtually none of the amenities my village has. Their housing is even cheaper, but I wouldn't consider it a deal because of just how little there is there and how poor the average resident is. In our region, my village is the VHCOL area, so it's all relative.

I also managed to buy an extremely inexpensive condo in my HCOL city, again, because I understood the reasons for a specific building being so cheap, and I was okay with them. Within my HCOL region, my particular spot is extremely LCOL, again, relatively.

It's all about figuring out what's most important to you, and getting creative about how to meet those needs and wants. If you can find a specific feature that makes an area LCOL that you really don't mind, but everyone else avoids??? Jackpot.

I don't mind living out in the remote fishing village with no professional jobs, horrific weather half the year, and poor access to healthcare, because I work remotely, weather in my HCOL city is pretty atrocious, and I can get healthcare there.

By being okay with the downsides, I was able to buy an ocean-front, 3 bedroom detached home for 86K. ETA: I bought my condo just 2 years before for 142K, so even combined, and even spending 50K on repairs and an addition, my housing is still under 300K and absolutely dirt cheap for Canada. For perspective, a 600 sqft 1 bedroom condo about 5 minutes away is 630K.

[Tasse]

I lived in Southern California (VHCOL) for 7 years as a graduate student, then moved to Colorado (MCOL) for two years, then moved to the Midwest (LCOL) this month. Granted, I have moved back to my hometown, so I know the area already, and a big draw to coming here was to be near family.

It's true that it's cheaper here because of supply and demand--in particular, reduced demand. I'm in the suburbs of a city whose heyday was 50 years ago, and people from the coasts see this as "flyover country." Some of the perceptions are inaccurate stereotypes, and some are true in aggregate but false in plenty of specific areas; you just have to know what to look for. For instance:

• Walkability is not a given; many roads don't have sidewalks. However, by carefully selecting our neighborhood, we can walk to the grocery store without walking on or crossing ANY roads, and we can bike 3 miles to my parents exclusively on residential streets. Just because the area was designed for cars doesn't mean you can't find pockets of walkability.
  
  
• My area has an enormous network of bike paths converted from old train tracks. These are nice for going long distances in pretty scenery, but not for doing errands.
  
  
• My area has a large collection of public parks, many of them natural woodlands. I missed woods badly living elsewhere. And seasons in general (in CA).
  
  
• Related, how are you going to feel about the climate? Summers are more humid here than either of the places I've lived recently. DH isn't thrilled about that. OTOH, decent air conditioning is widespread, which wasn't the case in CA and CO, as those areas didn't used to have such hot summers.
  
  
• Politically, most LCOL states are reddish or purple, but cities tend to be blue even in red states. Are you okay with having a political mix of neighbors? How much do you care about your state level politics vs the lean of the immediate community you're in? There is lots of variety here but it depends what you're looking for.
  
  
• For example, almost every state in the Midwest has expanded Medicaid. Most states in the South have not. All fairly LCOL, divergent health care policy. Also, two of the best research hospitals in the country (Cleveland Clinic and Mayo Clinic) are in the Midwest.
  
  
• The Midwest still has some of the most segregated cities in the US. If diversity matters to you, you're going to have to think carefully about where you live. However, I've heard that Indianapolis is more diverse than most people give it credit for.
  
  
• I graduated from an excellent public high school. Other places don't have great schools. This is a silly one to group all LCOL areas together on.

For us personally, family was the biggest motivator to moving here, but the cost definitely sealed the deal. My husband is taking a sabbatical dealing with burnout; in the Midwest, we can afford all our expenses AND max out all my/our tax-advantaged accounts on only my income. I can also qualify for a decent mortgage on only my income. So this location means DH never has to work FT again if he doesn't want to. We want kids and I want to scale back at work when we have them, so a higher COL meant he was going to have to pick up that slack.

A couple other things that mattered to us are that Ohio (despite being a reddish state) recently codified reproductive rights into its state constitution; DH was anxious about trying to start a family in an environment with ambiguous maternal care in emergencies. And we attended Camp Mustache Midwest, which helped us feel like we were going to be able to find cool like-minded people in the area. After that, as I mentioned, we selected our neighborhood very carefully.

A cool resource if walkability matters to you: https://close.city/?x=-86.16559&y=39.77713&z=12.10033&r=0&l=11111

And the writer John Green moved to Indianapolis from NYC in 2007 and has written and spoken about the experience of going from hating to loving the city. One place he describes this: https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/anthropocene-reviewed/episodes/anthropocene-reviewed-indianapolis-and-love-first-sight

ETA line breaks in my big list, it was hard to read without them.

[roomtempmayo]

My experience has been that there's often a very large difference between genuinely low cost of living areas (median house <$200k), and a medium cost of living, mid-sized city like Indianapolis.

Places that are really cheap are usually that way for good reasons.  People don't want to live there, and you probably don't either.

But mid-cost, small to mid-sized cities can be great.  Someone mentioned the upper midwest earlier, so I'll throw out examples like Traverse City, Green Bay, Madison, and Duluth that all have a lot to offer, while still being much more affordable than life on the coasts.  Housing will never go to the moon because they're actively building more of it, there aren't many local jobs that pay $200k+, and they get cold in the winter.

[Tasse]

I suppose it's all about your frame of reference, but I would never consider Indianapolis to be medium COL. There are lots of 3bd/2ba single family homes for sale for under $250k. It seems like the distinction you're making is between rural LCOL and urban or suburban LCOL (which yes, costs more than the rural areas--perhaps we can call those VLCOL).

I realize I'm splitting hairs. But if Indianapolis is MCOL, Denver has to be considered HCOL, and Californians will laugh at you if you say that.

[roomtempmayo]

@Tasse I'd call Denver HCOL, and coastal California VHCOL.  Californians may laugh, but Denver is way above the national average for COL.

You're right that most very low cost places are rural (and the dried up farming/ranching/mining town sort of rural, not the mountain postcard sort of rural), but there are also cities that qualify: Memphis (median home $148k; highest violent crime rate in the country) or Shreveport, LA (median home $199k; low life expectancy and high cancer rates).  Most of the time really cheap cities have some combination of high violent crime, a polluted environment, and poor health outcomes.

[Villanelle]

I've moved a ton, my entire life.

What I've observed is that a place 1 person loves might be miserable for another person.  They key is finding a place that's a good fit for you. While that can't be completely divorced from costs, they aren't necessarily as correlated as one might thig, or at least not for all people. 

I love coastal San Diego.  It's my happy place.  It's also H or VH COL.  Why?  Much of that has to do with the weather.  And the weather is great for e, as is the ack of mosquitos (for which I'm a magnet, and also very reactive so my bites get huge and awful).  But For someone who wants 4 seasons, the element for which you are paying more in San Diego may not only not be worth it, but it may actually be a negative.

An area might be lower cost of living because there's not a major airport.  If you don't travel much, that doesn't affect you. 

Do you crave community?  Do you want privacy?  Do you want easy access to nature?  Do you need top-notch cultural attractions?  Do you want great public schools?  Public universities?  Are you okay with a place where most people have lived there their entire lives and you'll always be an outsider?  How sensitive are you to crime stats, and what kinds of crime are most prevalent?  Do you have strong political feelings and if so, how does an area align with those values? How important is diversity?  Are you okay being in the minority where you live?

Look at areas you are considering.  What makes them high or low cost of living?  What are you paying for? What are you getting a "discount" for?  And how do those elements fit with the life you have and want? 

[Tasse]

@Tasse I'd call Denver HCOL, and coastal California VHCOL.  Californians may laugh, but Denver is way above the national average for COL.

Just looked up median home sale prices on Redfin:

US overall: $434k
Denver: $585k (35% / $151k more than US overall)
Indianapolis: $250k (42% / $184k less than US overall)

I'll grant you that Denver is higher than the US overall, and by more than I thought it would be, but it's still closer to the US median than Indianapolis is. What we really need is a full histogram and to calculate standard deviations for a mathematically robust definition of what counts as high or low! /s

I tried looking for cities very close to the median and found Phoenix AZ ($450k), Orlando FL ($408k), Salem OR ($434k), and Las Vegas NV ($434k). That's right, Vegas was exactly median.

This article from May 2024 says that the lowest median home value by state is $232k: https://www.forbes.com/advisor/mortgages/real-estate/median-home-prices-by-state/

I apologize to the OP for this detour.

[jrhampt]

@Tasse I'd call Denver HCOL, and coastal California VHCOL.  Californians may laugh, but Denver is way above the national average for COL.

Just looked up median home sale prices on Redfin:

US overall: $434k
Denver: $585k (35% / $151k more than US overall)
Indianapolis: $250k (42% / $184k less than US overall)

I'll grant you that Denver is higher than the US overall, and by more than I thought it would be, but it's still closer to the US median than Indianapolis is. What we really need is a full histogram and to calculate standard deviations for a mathematically robust definition of what counts as high or low! /s

I tried looking for cities very close to the median and found Phoenix AZ ($450k), Orlando FL ($408k), Salem OR ($434k), and Las Vegas NV ($434k). That's right, Vegas was exactly median.

This article from May 2024 says that the lowest median home value by state is $232k: https://www.forbes.com/advisor/mortgages/real-estate/median-home-prices-by-state/

I apologize to the OP for this detour.

Interesting...out of those 4, Salem is the only one I'd consider remotely liveable (and I've only driven through Salem, as opposed to having unfortunately spent more time in the other 3).  But as noted above, everyone's priorities are different.  I think Phoenix is one badly timed power outage away from a mass casualty event.

[RWD]

@Tasse I'd call Denver HCOL, and coastal California VHCOL.  Californians may laugh, but Denver is way above the national average for COL.

Just looked up median home sale prices on Redfin:

US overall: $434k
Denver: $585k (35% / $151k more than US overall)
Indianapolis: $250k (42% / $184k less than US overall)

I'll grant you that Denver is higher than the US overall, and by more than I thought it would be, but it's still closer to the US median than Indianapolis is. What we really need is a full histogram and to calculate standard deviations for a mathematically robust definition of what counts as high or low! /s

I tried looking for cities very close to the median and found Phoenix AZ ($450k), Orlando FL ($408k), Salem OR ($434k), and Las Vegas NV ($434k). That's right, Vegas was exactly median.

This article from May 2024 says that the lowest median home value by state is $232k: https://www.forbes.com/advisor/mortgages/real-estate/median-home-prices-by-state/

I apologize to the OP for this detour.

Interesting...out of those 4, Salem is the only one I'd consider remotely liveable (and I've only driven through Salem, as opposed to having unfortunately spent more time in the other 3).  But as noted above, everyone's priorities are different.  I think Phoenix is one badly timed power outage away from a mass casualty event.

I have lived in Salem. It was fine.

[Tasse]

Interesting...out of those 4, Salem is the only one I'd consider remotely liveable (and I've only driven through Salem, as opposed to having unfortunately spent more time in the other 3).  But as noted above, everyone's priorities are different.  I think Phoenix is one badly timed power outage away from a mass casualty event.

I'm sure there are a lot more cities that are close. Those are just the first four that I thought of (with the guidance of the median-by-state article I linked) that turned out to be within about $30k of the median.

[JupiterGreen]

I lived in Southern California (VHCOL) for 7 years as a graduate student, then moved to Colorado (MCOL) for two years, then moved to the Midwest (LCOL) this month. Granted, I have moved back to my hometown, so I know the area already, and a big draw to coming here was to be near family.

It's true that it's cheaper here because of supply and demand--in particular, reduced demand. I'm in the suburbs of a city whose heyday was 50 years ago, and people from the coasts see this as "flyover country." Some of the perceptions are inaccurate stereotypes, and some are true in aggregate but false in plenty of specific areas; you just have to know what to look for. For instance:

• Walkability is not a given; many roads don't have sidewalks. However, by carefully selecting our neighborhood, we can walk to the grocery store without walking on or crossing ANY roads, and we can bike 3 miles to my parents exclusively on residential streets. Just because the area was designed for cars doesn't mean you can't find pockets of walkability.
  
  
• My area has an enormous network of bike paths converted from old train tracks. These are nice for going long distances in pretty scenery, but not for doing errands.
  
  
• My area has a large collection of public parks, many of them natural woodlands. I missed woods badly living elsewhere. And seasons in general (in CA).
  
  
• Related, how are you going to feel about the climate? Summers are more humid here than either of the places I've lived recently. DH isn't thrilled about that. OTOH, decent air conditioning is widespread, which wasn't the case in CA and CO, as those areas didn't used to have such hot summers.
  
  
• Politically, most LCOL states are reddish or purple, but cities tend to be blue even in red states. Are you okay with having a political mix of neighbors? How much do you care about your state level politics vs the lean of the immediate community you're in? There is lots of variety here but it depends what you're looking for.
  
  
• For example, almost every state in the Midwest has expanded Medicaid. Most states in the South have not. All fairly LCOL, divergent health care policy. Also, two of the best research hospitals in the country (Cleveland Clinic and Mayo Clinic) are in the Midwest.
  
  
• The Midwest still has some of the most segregated cities in the US. If diversity matters to you, you're going to have to think carefully about where you live. However, I've heard that Indianapolis is more diverse than most people give it credit for.
  
  
• I graduated from an excellent public high school. Other places don't have great schools. This is a silly one to group all LCOL areas together on.

For us personally, family was the biggest motivator to moving here, but the cost definitely sealed the deal. My husband is taking a sabbatical dealing with burnout; in the Midwest, we can afford all our expenses AND max out all my/our tax-advantaged accounts on only my income. I can also qualify for a decent mortgage on only my income. So this location means DH never has to work FT again if he doesn't want to. We want kids and I want to scale back at work when we have them, so a higher COL meant he was going to have to pick up that slack.

A couple other things that mattered to us are that Ohio (despite being a reddish state) recently codified reproductive rights into its state constitution; DH was anxious about trying to start a family in an environment with ambiguous maternal care in emergencies. And we attended Camp Mustache Midwest, which helped us feel like we were going to be able to find cool like-minded people in the area. After that, as I mentioned, we selected our neighborhood very carefully.

A cool resource if walkability matters to you: https://close.city/?x=-86.16559&y=39.77713&z=12.10033&r=0&l=11111

And the writer John Green moved to Indianapolis from NYC in 2007 and has written and spoken about the experience of going from hating to loving the city. One place he describes this: https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/anthropocene-reviewed/episodes/anthropocene-reviewed-indianapolis-and-love-first-sight

ETA line breaks in my big list, it was hard to read without them.

Not going to lie, there is a lot to like about OH. I have lived in the south and midwest and OH is a state I have lived in (not too long but over a year). Most people I've interacted with in the city tended to be well educated and they are nice, aside for some mild proselytizing in the southern region. It's outdoorsy and down to earth. Though I have not lived in either, I really like Cleveland and Akron, the Cuyahoga is beautiful. The rail to trails in all of OH are amazing and it's such a big state that you can more or less find any terrain you want (hills, but no mountains). Of the states around that general area, I'd live in northeast OH my only pause is the crazy state politics and things like that three part billboard with the 10 commandments and that barn with the giant confederate flag on I-70... I did not know they codified women's reproductive rights though, that's fantastic. I feel like OH used to be a reasonable state then it got hijacked by extremists and now hopefully its on its way to being reasonable again.
 

[Tasse]

The state level government in OH is pretty gerrymandered: it's a Republican trifecta even though the state is like... 55/45. So I'm not holding my breath on a rapid return to centrism, but there are promising signs. The reproductive rights amendment was installed by voter referendum over the objections of the whole state-level government.

To be honest, I feel a sort of ridiculous fondness for the 10 commandments billboard. That's my home state nonsense!

The Appalachian mountains would like to have a word with your claim that Ohio only has hills. ;) In many places they are just as tall as the Rockies, they just aren't as *high* because they aren't starting already a mile up! (This is tangential to an ongoing objection I have about people saying my home state is flat. You haven't seen flat until you've stood in Denver and looked East.)

[JupiterGreen]

The state level government in OH is pretty gerrymandered: it's a Republican trifecta even though the state is like... 55/45. So I'm not holding my breath on a rapid return to centrism, but there are promising signs. The reproductive rights amendment was installed by voter referendum over the objections of the whole state-level government.

To be honest, I feel a sort of ridiculous fondness for the 10 commandments billboard. That's my home state nonsense!

The Appalachian mountains would like to have a word with your claim that Ohio only has hills. ;) In many places they are just as tall as the Rockies, they just aren't as *high* because they aren't starting already a mile up! (This is tangential to an ongoing objection I have about people saying my home state is flat. You haven't seen flat until you've stood in Denver and looked East.)

Lol, in all fairness I have religious trauma and now PTSD from all the extremists so that billboards, thousands of crosses for the (you know what, I just can't write it), etc it all hits different for me. I can say the three part billboard thing y'all do is a next level commitment like HELL......IS.......REAL I forget where that one is. Not sure if it is still there, but there used to be a giant sculpture (jesus maybe?) on a church going up to Toledo/Detroit, NGL I'm sort of a fan of that, very ambitious. I'm rooting for you and that whole middle and south of the country, lots of gerrymandering.   

[Tasse]

Are you thinking of Touchdown Jesus on 75 in the Southern half of the state, which was struck by lightning and burned down in 2010, then replaced with a non-flammable statue? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_of_Kings_(statue)

[JupiterGreen]

Are you thinking of Touchdown Jesus on 75 in the Southern half of the state, which was struck by lightning and burned down in 2010, then replaced with a non-flammable statue? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_of_Kings_(statue)

Yes! I've driven that route a few times but not in some years. I think I saw the non-burned pre-2010 one.

To the OP, I've also heard good things about MN, though I have never lived in that state. But as others have mentioned this might depend on your tolerance for cold. I also like upstate NY for a lower cost of living but still being in the northeast, there are probably other example of lower cost areas in higher cost of living states. I have no experience living on the west coast/in the western states.

Another thing I would think about is global warming. Look at climate risks and the prevalence of natural disasters because that will impact your insurance rates. Climate migration is already happening. This map is fantastic, it shows how the upper midwest is a viable long term place to live in regards to climate change:
https://projects.propublica.org/climate-migration/

[roomtempmayo]

To the OP, I've also heard good things about MN, though I have never lived in that state. But as others have mentioned this might depend on your tolerance for cold. I also like upstate NY for a lower cost of living but still being in the northeast, there are probably other example of lower cost areas in higher cost of living states.

I've lived in both Minnesota and upstate New York.  Winters in Minnesota are colder but much sunnier, and there's more of a dedicated winter outdoor culture in Minnesota (nordic skiing, hockey, snowshoeing, ice fishing, snowmobiling, fat biking, just getting out).  I would 100% rather spend December through March in Minnesota than upstate New York. 

[spartana]

I moved from VHCOL coast SoCal about 100 miles away to a 4 season ski/lake mountain resort town and housing was about 1/3 the cost there. Still close to family, friends, activities, SoCal beach life, etc but at a fraction of the cost. BUT there were several drawbacks.

First no jobs but resort type jobs. I'm FIRE so it didn't matter but unless you are WFH many LCOL places might lack job opportunities or be very low paid.

Second was cultural or social activities were fairly limited. They existed but there are fewer options then in my other location. Although the abundance of outdoor recreation made up for this lack imho.

Longer drive often in bad weather to get "out of town" if wanted. Getting snowed in or having limited mass transit options if you don't own a car (me) or don't want to drive.

Lastly, in my case, was potential disaster from wildfires or mudslides. So make sure to check your desired location for any potential natural disaster problems as that maybe one big reason it's considered LCOL - add to that man made conditions such as air pollution or industrial and agricultural waste.

I recently sold and now living in a HCOL area again. Haven't settled on a perm place yet but am weighting the LCOL or MCOL location options with many of the things in mind that people have listed in this thread (as well as buying or renting).  Living somewhere JUST because it's less expensive isn't a very wise choice if the cons outweighs that one pro.

[tj]

I've moved back and forth between Coastal California and Phoenix a few times.

For me, I feel like I just don't get enough value in coastal California. I feel like so much more of a penny pincher when i live here vs when I lived in Phoenix and my fixed costs were a fraction of what they are now. Plus, the traffic kind of sucks.

it's very socially isolating in this VHCOL area because I don't have a VHCOL income and I don't relate to most of it's inhabitants, though it is nice to live near family. My parents split time between coastal CA and the CA desert - I've thought about moving to the CA desert, which is cheaper, but that's much more of a retiree spot and doesn't have a whole lot going on.

I liked Phoenix well enough, and sometimes think about going back. There was an abundance of outdoor activities (but too hot to enjoy them for almost half the year during the day). I met a lot of cool people who moved there from the midwest and other places. I think about going back to Phoenix because I can live a better life there, but maybe that's because it seems scary to try a completely new place pushing 40.

I really like the idea of spending some time in a walkable city, but the cheap ones tend to be dangerous.

[Tasse]

Lastly, in my case, was potential disaster from wildfires or mudslides. So make sure to check your desired location for any potential natural disaster problems as that maybe one big reason it's considered LCOL - add to that man made conditions such as air pollution or industrial and agricultural waste.

Most of the Midwest is blessedly free of many major natural disasters. Limited wildfire odds, no hurricanes. We get tornadoes, but those tend to hit small areas hard rather than destroying huge areas, and they don't seem (?) to be increasing with climate change the way other disasters are. Flooding is very area-specific, so check on that one. And heat may become more of an issue, as everywhere. I was surprised by the difference proximity to the Mississippi made in the data that @JupiterGreen shared.

I really like the idea of spending some time in a walkable city, but the cheap ones tend to be dangerous.

Are there any cities that are both cheap and walkable? I thought those were pretty much inversely correlated.

[FINate]

I really like the idea of spending some time in a walkable city, but the cheap ones tend to be dangerous.

This is why I like mid-size MCOL cities. Pretty much everywhere is more affordable compared to Orange County, so if you're willing and able to spend a little over average in an area, you can find safe walkable neighborhoods in many cities.

E.g. this house in Boise. Not cheap for sure, but just a few blocks to the Boise Co-op (natural food grocery), Hyde Park (historic retail district), parks, hiking/biking trails, good schools, and downtown. Easy 15 minute Uber to the airport for vising family in SoCal.

You can find similar in Salt Lake City, which is larger, has better medical, bigger airport, and IMO the best skiing in the US. Easy access to some of the best National Parks. I don't know SLC super well, but would probably look in the area around Liberty Park, or a downtown condo. SLC is a little grittier than Boise but still very safe.

Portland OR is also very bike and pedestrian friendly. There are some quality-of-life issue there, but it's still generally very safe. Lots of access to the outdoors. But you have to be okay with the gloomy climate.

If you're willing to go a bit smaller, Eugene OR has a great wallkable downtown and some nice close-in neighborhoods. Some of the same quality-of-life issues as Portland and similar gloomy climate.

Ft Collins CO is another great small city with decent walkability and bikeability. The downtown is too small and low for my liking, but it's not without charm.

If you don't care about mountains, there are some Midwest cities worth looking at: Des Moines, Iowa City, Madison, and others.

I'm not saying these cities are entirely walkable/bikeable. There's a lot of car-centric sprawl. But you can find pockets, usually in older close-in neighborhoods that provide a nice blend of quite residential with easy access to urban amenities.

[Tasse]

Madison WI is often listed in collections of the most bike-friendly cities in the US. College towns tend to be good bets there.

I haven't been to Ann Arbor MI in a over decade but I thought it was cute when I visited.

[tj]

I really like the idea of spending some time in a walkable city, but the cheap ones tend to be dangerous.

Are there any cities that are both cheap and walkable? I thought those were pretty much inversely correlated.

Sure.  I mean,  Here's a 90+ walkscore in NYC for $120k. The Bronx isn't supposed to be the best part of town, but I've only been there to go to Yankee Stadium, so I wouldn't know.

https://www.redfin.com/NY/Bronx/1275-Grant-Ave-10456/unit-5E/home/44768689

I've seen 90+ walk scores in some midwestern cities for less than that.

[joemandadman189]

We moved from the Denver area to the midwest to be closer to family. I think it was a good move for the kids and DW likes it. I don't like it as much. Less amenities, more driving, everything is further apart, good restaurants are further away, the people are different (this is good and bad), small town life isnt for everyone. We both work from home, and i dont like it, i feel so isolated. i do niche engineering work that doesnt have a market here so getting a new office job would be tough, cause more headache with an hour of commuting, and pay less/need more hours worked. We sold out of a sub 3% rate and bought into a 5.5% rate, so any cost savings on a less expensive home were eaten up by the more expensive mortgage and crazy high taxes. I was reluctant to move in the first place and would not do it again, i would have moved within the Denver area to a different suburb. I would push to move now, but i dont know where we would go that would be better given everything going on, our wants/needs, and the kids are settled/enjoy things here. So here we are...

[tj]

I really like the idea of spending some time in a walkable city, but the cheap ones tend to be dangerous.

This is why I like mid-size MCOL cities. Pretty much everywhere is more affordable compared to Orange County, so if you're willing and able to spend a little bit more you can find safe walkable neighborhoods in many cities.

E.g. this house in Boise. Not cheap for sure, but just a few blocks to the Boise Co-op (natural food grocery), Hyde Park (historic retail district), parks, hiking/biking trails, good schools, and downtown. Easy 15 minute Uber to the airport for vising family in SoCal.

You can find similar in Salt Lake City, which is larger, has better medical, bigger airport, and IMO the best skiing in the US. Easy access to some of the best National Parks. I don't know SLC super well, but would probably look in the area around Liberty Park, or a downtown condo. SLC is a little grittier than Boise but still very safe.

Portland OR is also very bike and pedestrian friendly. There are some quality-of-life issue there, but it's still generally very safe. Lots of access to the outdoors. But you have to be okay with the gloomy climate.

If you're willing to go a bit smaller, Eugene OR has a great wallkable downtown and some nice close-in neighborhoods. Some of the same quality-of-life issues as Portland and similar gloomy climate.

Ft Collins CO is another great small city with decent walkability and bikeability. The downtown is too small and low for my liking, but it's not without charm.

If you don't care about mountains, there are some Midwest cities worth looking at: Des Moines, Iowa City, Madison, and others.

I'm not saying these cities are entirely walkable/bikeable. There's a lot of car-centric sprawl. But you can find pockets, usually in older close-in neighborhoods that provide a nice blend of quite residential with easy access to urban amenities.

Thanks for the specific suggestions! I actually was wondering about SLC. I visited a friend there (11 years ago yesterday per Facebook) and it is a nice place for sure. We went to Park City too which was fun, but I don't think I'd want to live in a ski resort town.

[clarkfan1979]

Madison WI is often listed in collections of the most bike-friendly cities in the US. College towns tend to be good bets there.

I haven't been to Ann Arbor MI in a over decade but I thought it was cute when I visited.

@Tasse The city of Denver has about 700K residents and is slightly less desirable than the suburbs of Denver, which houses an additional 2.3 million. The housing is more desirable and expensive in the Denver suburbs. The overall Denver metropolitan area (including suburbs) is the most expensive non-coastal major city in the United States. Colorado has the 5th most expensive housing in the United States.

My wife and I live in Pueblo West, CO, about 2 hours south of Denver. We like it here mostly due to the lower cost of living, which affords my wife the opportunity to work part-time. If we lived in the Denver suburbs closer to family, my wife would need to work full-time. Our house is worth about 375K to 400K. The same house near her sister in Erie, CO or Castle Rock, CO near her parents would be around 600K to 700K. I would consider the Denver area HCOL and our area in Pueblo West, CO to be MCOL.

We lived on the island of Kauai (Hawaii) full-time from 2015 to 2019. Median house price there is currently 1.4 million. I would consider that to be VHCOL. We bought a house there in 2018 for 603K and still own it as a rental. It's probably worth about 1.3 million today. It's expensive, but it's still cheaper than ski towns in Colorado.

Some college towns are becoming expensive, including Ann Arbor. Looks like median sales price is 475K to 500K. I have a rental house near Colorado State University, Fort Collins. It's worth about 525K and the overall median sales price of Fort Collins is 550K. Kind of expensive for a college town.   

[Cranky]

Madison WI is often listed in collections of the most bike-friendly cities in the US. College towns tend to be good bets there.

I haven't been to Ann Arbor MI in a over decade but I thought it was cute when I visited.

We moved a few years ago from a very LCOL part of Ohio to MCOL Madison, partly for family reasons and partly because the politics of NE Ohio have just gotten too depressing. We were there for dh’s job and when he retired we decided to move on.

I really like Madison - it’s got a lot going for it. But housing prices have pretty much doubled in the last 5 years. It makes finding an affordable place an uphill slog.

[Dancin'Dog]

I've never been, but I've heard good things about Pittsburgh.  Do any of you know much about Pittsburgh?


It's rated well on this index:  [size=78%]https://www.numbeo.com/quality-of-life/in/Pittsburgh[/size]

[314159]

We are looking for our next city to live in now. I am from Minneapolis and my wife is from a town an hour outside Columbus, OH. Since we moved in together we've lived in Minneapolis and San Francisco. I'm writing this from Denver. Previously we were in Portland, OR, and our next stop will be Chicago.

@Tasse, the close.city site you linked is awesome and I haven't seen it before! Thank you!

 

Some college towns are becoming expensive, including Ann Arbor. Looks like median sales price is 475K to 500K. I have a rental house near Colorado State University, Fort Collins. It's worth about 525K and the overall median sales price of Fort Collins is 550K. Kind of expensive for a college town.   

I have a coworker there who went to CSU for grad school and never left, and likes it there a lot. I was interested as it seemed like it shared many of the benefits of Boulder (college town, bikeable, mountain access — not that I've ever been to Boulder) for cheaper. But upon research it seemed as if housing costs there were virtually the same as Denver proper, making it less appealing. Am I wrong?

To the OP, I've also heard good things about MN, though I have never lived in that state. But as others have mentioned this might depend on your tolerance for cold. I also like upstate NY for a lower cost of living but still being in the northeast, there are probably other example of lower cost areas in higher cost of living states.

I've lived in both Minnesota and upstate New York.  Winters in Minnesota are colder but much sunnier, and there's more of a dedicated winter outdoor culture in Minnesota (nordic skiing, hockey, snowshoeing, ice fishing, snowmobiling, fat biking, just getting out).  I would 100% rather spend December through March in Minnesota than upstate New York. 

I've not been to upstate New York, but substituting Ohio or Indiana, I absolutely agree! The sunny days plus culture of going outside despite the cold make such a difference. Even my wife who is not a native Minnesotan agrees!

---

Recently I have been trying to compare cities more using median price per square foot instead of median home price, because I think it's crazy to count a 900 sq ft condo and a 4000 sq ft single family home in the same category. But I'm not certain this is better because if a place only has 4000 sq ft homes on the market, then a lower cost per sq ft doesn't help. Thoughts?

[roomtempmayo]

Recently I have been trying to compare cities more using median price per square foot instead of median home price, because I think it's crazy to count a 900 sq ft condo and a 4000 sq ft single family home in the same category. But I'm not certain this is better because if a place only has 4000 sq ft homes on the market, then a lower cost per sq ft doesn't help. Thoughts?

Not all square feet are equal, and home size tends to have declining utility.  A 4000 sq ft house isn't 4x as useful as a 1000 sq ft house.

Housing is also hugely relative, whether we want to admit it or not.  If all your neighbors live in 1500 sq ft and so do you, you're probably going to be fine with it.  Less so if your house is half the size of all the others in the neighborhood.

Pricing a community based on whatever is normal there makes lots of sense to me.  Even more, it makes sense to move to a community or neighborhood where the norm is living in a small house with a low key lifestyle.

[tj]

We are looking for our next city to live in now. I am from Minneapolis and my wife is from a town an hour outside Columbus, OH. Since we moved in together we've lived in Minneapolis and San Francisco. I'm writing this from Denver. Previously we were in Portland, OR, and our next stop will be Chicago.

@Tasse, the close.city site you linked is awesome and I haven't seen it before! Thank you!

 

Some college towns are becoming expensive, including Ann Arbor. Looks like median sales price is 475K to 500K. I have a rental house near Colorado State University, Fort Collins. It's worth about 525K and the overall median sales price of Fort Collins is 550K. Kind of expensive for a college town.   

I have a coworker there who went to CSU for grad school and never left, and likes it there a lot. I was interested as it seemed like it shared many of the benefits of Boulder (college town, bikeable, mountain access — not that I've ever been to Boulder) for cheaper. But upon research it seemed as if housing costs there were virtually the same as Denver proper, making it less appealing. Am I wrong?

To the OP, I've also heard good things about MN, though I have never lived in that state. But as others have mentioned this might depend on your tolerance for cold. I also like upstate NY for a lower cost of living but still being in the northeast, there are probably other example of lower cost areas in higher cost of living states.

I've lived in both Minnesota and upstate New York.  Winters in Minnesota are colder but much sunnier, and there's more of a dedicated winter outdoor culture in Minnesota (nordic skiing, hockey, snowshoeing, ice fishing, snowmobiling, fat biking, just getting out).  I would 100% rather spend December through March in Minnesota than upstate New York. 

I've not been to upstate New York, but substituting Ohio or Indiana, I absolutely agree! The sunny days plus culture of going outside despite the cold make such a difference. Even my wife who is not a native Minnesotan agrees!

---

Recently I have been trying to compare cities more using median price per square foot instead of median home price, because I think it's crazy to count a 900 sq ft condo and a 4000 sq ft single family home in the same category. But I'm not certain this is better because if a place only has 4000 sq ft homes on the market, then a lower cost per sq ft doesn't help. Thoughts?

Is there a reason you don't want to go back to Minneapolis?

[Metalcat]

Recently I have been trying to compare cities more using median price per square foot instead of median home price, because I think it's crazy to count a 900 sq ft condo and a 4000 sq ft single family home in the same category. But I'm not certain this is better because if a place only has 4000 sq ft homes on the market, then a lower cost per sq ft doesn't help. Thoughts?

Not all square feet are equal, and home size tends to have declining utility.  A 4000 sq ft house isn't 4x as useful as a 1000 sq ft house.

Housing is also hugely relative, whether we want to admit it or not.  If all your neighbors live in 1500 sq ft and so do you, you're probably going to be fine with it.  Less so if your house is half the size of all the others in the neighborhood.

Pricing a community based on whatever is normal there makes lots of sense to me.  Even more, it makes sense to move to a community or neighborhood where the norm is living in a small house with a low key lifestyle.

This is so true. My mom's house is 3200 sqft and only has one tiny above ground bedroom with one tiny closet. My condo is less than 800 sqft and has a large bedroom with 2 closets, a bigger living room, and a more functional kitchen. She just has so much dead space and so many awkward pathways, the enormous amount of space just isn't very usable except for storage.

And although I agree that most folks are impacted by the size of their neighbours' homes, this is the MMM community where we cultivate a pride in being different.

Being surrounded by folks with big homes doesn't personally make me want a big home at all. We downsized to a 1 bedroom condo and absolutely love the small, minimalist space while all of our friends buy bigger and bigger houses.

Our second home was also 800sqft until we added an extension to be able to work from home, now it's 1000sqft, and even though it's still one of the smallest houses in the area, it feels massive for 2 people because the floorplan is so efficient.

[Cranky]

I've never been, but I've heard good things about Pittsburgh.  Do any of you know much about Pittsburgh?


It's rated well on this index:  [size=78%]https://www.numbeo.com/quality-of-life/in/Pittsburgh[/size]

Pittsburgh is my favorite place we’ve ever lived!

[314159]

Is there a reason you don't want to go back to Minneapolis?

We’d be happy to go back to Minneapolis, but if feels too soon. We want to experience life in at least one more city first! I think that if we move to Minneapolis there’s a high chance that we stay there for a few decades (to raise future kids and so on), if not our whole lives. It’s a great place, both generally speaking and as a fit for us personally, but we want to have at least one more look around and see if there’s not another place that’s even better.

[tj]

I've never been, but I've heard good things about Pittsburgh.  Do any of you know much about Pittsburgh?


It's rated well on this index:  [size=78%]https://www.numbeo.com/quality-of-life/in/Pittsburgh[/size]

Pittsburgh is my favorite place we’ve ever lived!

What did you like about Pittsburgh?

[wenchsenior]

Madison WI is often listed in collections of the most bike-friendly cities in the US. College towns tend to be good bets there.

I haven't been to Ann Arbor MI in a over decade but I thought it was cute when I visited.

We moved a few years ago from a very LCOL part of Ohio to MCOL Madison, partly for family reasons and partly because the politics of NE Ohio have just gotten too depressing. We were there for dh’s job and when he retired we decided to move on.

I really like Madison - it’s got a lot going for it. But housing prices have pretty much doubled in the last 5 years. It makes finding an affordable place an uphill slog.

Yup, housing has gone INSANE there. It used to be on our list for retirement, but no longer.  If we do southern WI it is going to have to be around the Baraboo or Prairie du Sac/Sauk City area.

[Archipelago]

Thanks to all who contributed to the topic. In a recent turn of events, my wife was offered a position that can't be refused and will likely keep us in NH for 5+ years. She works for the VA in White River VT and got a compensation package that includes up to $40k per year in tax free loan reimbursement for 5 years. This will effectively get her $190k in student debt paid off with no taxes or interest. The program is pretty niche and is only given for hard to fill positions in remote areas.

The way we look at it, since her minimum payments start around $1100/month, any cost savings living elsewhere would be negated if she doesn't transfer to another eligible position + location with the debt reduction program. Also, the VA she works for is considered a very good VA that she has already worked as a postdoc for a year and has treated her well. Transferring to another VA comes with no guarantees that it'll also be another good VA to work for. VA locations are a mixed bag.

While housing is especially scarce in our part of NH and while winters are especially brutal, we still really like the area and having access to the debt reduction program is a game changer which will help our housing budget considerably.

This is a good topic that I've learned a lot from. I hope others reading will benefit similarly.

[Catbert]

Wow.  40K a year tax free is an amazing benefit and a great reason for staying.