Author Topic: still dreaming  (Read 8631 times)

kmb501

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still dreaming
« on: February 03, 2015, 05:30:51 AM »
Mustachians,

Is there a way to live frugally and still live out your dreams? I've always wanted to live in a big city, like New York, but I've been informed that a city like that is prohibitively expensive to live in. I thought I may have better job prospects in a big city than here, though. Plus, I like the culture of the Northeast a lot more than the South; we are so traditional that it can sometimes smother a young person. I would like to get out and live, but, like I said in my first post, I don't make a lot of money, and it would be wise to save all I can.

I have Asperger's, which causes people to have trouble with non-verbal communication, and I've gotten the impression that New York is the place all of the great communicators live, so I thought living in a place like that might help it rub off on me. I have so much trouble even speaking to people around here, and I can't keep myself from associating the problem with the place. Too many people here are completely set in their ways. 

Also, I know the thinking is that big cities like that are expensive, but I'm bored to tears here and often find myself making unnecessary purchases because or it, either that, or I'm using money to bail out friends and family because they need my help. If I could find a workable plan in a place that I enjoy, I might have a better chance of actually saving money.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2015, 05:38:35 AM by kmb501 »

MetalCap

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Re: still dreaming
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2015, 05:54:26 AM »
First I would suggest finding a similar city that supports your line of work.  That would make the move the easiest.  Also you may need to be prepared to retire away form the city to make this work on a lower savings rate.

That said, make sure this dream isn't fleeting and just a temptation to stray from the FIRE dream.

PEIslander

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Re: still dreaming
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2015, 06:00:11 AM »
What kind of education and/or work experience do you have?

Other than the "South" where do you live now? Do you have savings (or family funding) that could support you if you made a move?

cashstasherat23

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Re: still dreaming
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2015, 06:34:41 AM »
What draws you to new York? Is it the idea you have in your head of NYC, or do you have concrete reasons for why you think you would like to live here? Is there job availability in your field?

I will say that working in NYC myself now and having lived in NJ my whole life, currently living just across the river, I can understand the allure. However, it can be both prohibitively expensive or frugal, depending on how you choose to live. I seek out free events, save my restaurant eating for maybe once or twice a month with friends, and live a bit farther outside the city so I can save more. I still am very there every day, and it is nice to have this city at your disposal.

However, you can also fall into the money spending trap very quickly here. There are clothing shops, shoes, concerts, and restaurants galore. The temptation is huge to spend spend spend.

Also, not to discourage you, but just to be blunt-many new yorkers do not talk to each other out on the streetd. Not sure if that is what you mean by communication, but you will not walk down the street chatting with people. Everyone always has a destination and is always in a hurry to get there. It can be hard to make friends, as I am finding out, but by going to a lot of those free events I mentioned above, I am making progress.

So to sum up my novel on living in NYC, really think hard about your reasons for moving here. Maybe come visit, and explore the real NYC, not the tourist areas. Not saying it is a bad idea-the city is a wonderful place, but it's not all sunshine and roses.



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Re: still dreaming
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2015, 07:15:29 AM »
I have lived in both NYC and SC. Yes, NYC is far more expensive but the tradeoff is that you are likely to be paid more. Just expect to pay a higher proportion of your budget in housing and don't expect to live in a nice, big apartment in Manhattan. Find yourself something small and out of the way. I lived in a studio apartment about 4 blocks from the Reading stop on the Path train in NJ. No big deal, I just knew not to walk home alone after dark. There were always taxis waiting at the station so it wasn't a big deal.

One thing you might like about the north is that people are more straight forward. There is much less of the whole say one thing and mean another. That shit drives me nuts.

Move! Get the hell out of a place that is smothering you and have some adventures.

kmb501

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Re: still dreaming
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2015, 08:55:22 PM »
What kind of education and/or work experience do you have?

Other than the "South" where do you live now? Do you have savings (or family funding) that could support you if you made a move?

Right now I work as a substitute teacher and am trying to get another part-time teaching gig. I'm licensed to teach English / Language Arts to grades 6-12 and ESL to grades K-12.

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Re: still dreaming
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2015, 09:00:15 PM »
Have you been there yet? I would visit first and see if you like it.

kmb501

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Re: still dreaming
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2015, 09:06:21 PM »
What draws you to new York? Is it the idea you have in your head of NYC, or do you have concrete reasons for why you think you would like to live here? Is there job availability in your field?

I will say that working in NYC myself now and having lived in NJ my whole life, currently living just across the river, I can understand the allure. However, it can be both prohibitively expensive or frugal, depending on how you choose to live. I seek out free events, save my restaurant eating for maybe once or twice a month with friends, and live a bit farther outside the city so I can save more. I still am very there every day, and it is nice to have this city at your disposal.

However, you can also fall into the money spending trap very quickly here. There are clothing shops, shoes, concerts, and restaurants galore. The temptation is huge to spend spend spend.

Also, not to discourage you, but just to be blunt-many new yorkers do not talk to each other out on the streetd. Not sure if that is what you mean by communication, but you will not walk down the street chatting with people. Everyone always has a destination and is always in a hurry to get there. It can be hard to make friends, as I am finding out, but by going to a lot of those free events I mentioned above, I am making progress.

So to sum up my novel on living in NYC, really think hard about your reasons for moving here. Maybe come visit, and explore the real NYC, not the tourist areas. Not saying it is a bad idea-the city is a wonderful place, but it's not all sunshine and roses.

Well,

I haven't done a lot of research, but here are my top five reasons:

Since the cost of living in a city like that is so high, there are probably a lot of job opportunities that pay decent wages. Even if I don't get a job in my field, I would still probably be making a lot more money than I do here.

There's a lot of free thought in a city like that. People are more liberal, and they don't tend to smother you with their own ideas and traditions. Around here, people expect certain behavior and they're suspicious of outsiders. NYC embraces eccentricity. It's probably a whole different atmosphere.

NYC has a lot of schools of art, film, fashion, etc., so there are probably plenty of opportunities to learn about things like that and participate in hobbies with likeminded people, although they may all only be tourists and college students.

New York is the place where great salesman and communicators thrive. They probably have all sorts of schools and programs that specialize in training people how to get along with others. (At least they would probably be able to help me. I have Autism Spectrum Disorder and do not always have great social skills.) I get this idea from the fact that a lot of really good sales training programs were written in New York.

They probably have a great healthcare program. Around here people with my income don't qualify for affordable insurance. 


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Re: still dreaming
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2015, 10:36:03 PM »
If you have a US teaching license you could always come to China and teach in an international school here. International schools in Beijing have a big need for teachers these days, as it's hard to get people to live in dystopian fog. Living in China is a good way to crush your dreams and make you cynical and realistic.

kmb501

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Re: still dreaming
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2015, 02:41:05 PM »
If you have a US teaching license you could always come to China and teach in an international school here. International schools in Beijing have a big need for teachers these days, as it's hard to get people to live in dystopian fog. Living in China is a good way to crush your dreams and make you cynical and realistic.

I've heard that, but I haven't spoken to any Americans who have worked abroad as teachers firsthand. I've tried a few long distance interviews, but I've heard that I should really know what I'm getting into before I move.

frugaldrummer

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Re: still dreaming
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2015, 04:56:24 PM »
Ok, I've looked at your reasons for your interest in NYC, let's tackle them one at a time.

1)Cost of living versus wages - it's really about the balance between the two. Yes, you might get paid more in NYC but it would likely all be eaten up in increased cost of living.  From a financial standpoint, the ideal is someplace with low cost of living and relatively high wages.  You can find lists online which detail this.

2) Free thought and tolerance of eccentricity - will probably be better in NYC, true, but I think the West Coast is even better for this.  The south is definitely not so great for this.

3) Lots of schools for arts and hobbies - any big city will have this, although yes, NYC is a mecca

4) Salesmen and great communicators - I applaud you for trying to learn skills to get around your Asperger's issues with this.  One great resource which can be found almost anywhere is Toastmasters.   Also, look for a book called Helping the Child Who Doesn't Fit In - I used to have this for my son (later diagnosed with Asperger's) when he was a child.  It has some useful exercises for learning to read faces and social cues.    Also, look for "geeky" groups in a big city - my son always fit in best with gamers and computer nerds, many of whom also have Asperger's.

5) Insurance - any state that participates in subsidies via the Obamacare exchanges will work for you, I think.

Bottom line - NYC is intense and stressful and not for everybody (I, for instance, have visited many times, but could never imagine living there.)  But many of the things you are seeking could be found in any number of large (and cheaper) cities, so I would widen your search.

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Re: still dreaming
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2015, 05:20:12 PM »
Have you visited nyc? To start you could try google view and zooming in on various streets. One thing in particular about nyc is that there is very high demand for apartments. You'll need a lot of money in savings so that you can pay first and last month which is often required. Have you looked at apartment prices? Craigslist is a good place to start.

There are so many great (and liberal) cities in this country where you can have everything you want without trying to survive nyc prices. A really important thing to think about is weather. Chicago, Boston, Minneapolis, are all great cities but are in winter 6 months of the year. The west coast is warmer, southern California is also extremely expensive, but it seems like there are pockets of LA that are still reasonable, but I think San Francisco is also ridiculously expensive like NYC. What about the north west? Portland and Seattle with their laid back liberal vibes, but lots of rain in Seattle.

Social anxiety is pretty common and most people are nervous talking in front of groups, so no need to feel bad about it.

Do lots of research on jobs in different cities. I think you should stick with something education related because you have the masters. You might be able to get employers to fly you out to their city.

kmb501

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Re: still dreaming
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2015, 06:04:59 PM »
Have you visited nyc? To start you could try google view and zooming in on various streets. One thing in particular about nyc is that there is very high demand for apartments. You'll need a lot of money in savings so that you can pay first and last month which is often required. Have you looked at apartment prices? Craigslist is a good place to start.

There are so many great (and liberal) cities in this country where you can have everything you want without trying to survive nyc prices. A really important thing to think about is weather. Chicago, Boston, Minneapolis, are all great cities but are in winter 6 months of the year. The west coast is warmer, southern California is also extremely expensive, but it seems like there are pockets of LA that are still reasonable, but I think San Francisco is also ridiculously expensive like NYC. What about the north west? Portland and Seattle with their laid back liberal vibes, but lots of rain in Seattle.

Social anxiety is pretty common and most people are nervous talking in front of groups, so no need to feel bad about it.

Do lots of research on jobs in different cities. I think you should stick with something education related because you have the masters. You might be able to get employers to fly you out to their city.

That's good advice. I think I will apply with the Los Angeles or Los Vegas school districts and see if they need teachers. If so, maybe I will find some of what I'm looking for and a deal that makes sense.

kmb501

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Re: still dreaming
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2015, 05:12:38 AM »
Have you visited nyc? To start you could try google view and zooming in on various streets. One thing in particular about nyc is that there is very high demand for apartments. You'll need a lot of money in savings so that you can pay first and last month which is often required. Have you looked at apartment prices? Craigslist is a good place to start.

There are so many great (and liberal) cities in this country where you can have everything you want without trying to survive nyc prices. A really important thing to think about is weather. Chicago, Boston, Minneapolis, are all great cities but are in winter 6 months of the year. The west coast is warmer, southern California is also extremely expensive, but it seems like there are pockets of LA that are still reasonable, but I think San Francisco is also ridiculously expensive like NYC. What about the north west? Portland and Seattle with their laid back liberal vibes, but lots of rain in Seattle.

Social anxiety is pretty common and most people are nervous talking in front of groups, so no need to feel bad about it.

Do lots of research on jobs in different cities. I think you should stick with something education related because you have the masters. You might be able to get employers to fly you out to their city.

Couldn't I just opt to live in New Jersey, Connecticut, or some neighboring state that would allow me to commute via train or bus to NYC? Unless I worked directly in Manhattan, I probably wouldn't need to live in NYC, although it would be a great experience. I could probably just live and work in a neighboring state and just go to NYC on weekends or something. 

arebelspy

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Re: still dreaming
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2015, 02:34:55 PM »
I have Asperger's, which causes people to have trouble with non-verbal communication, and I've gotten the impression that New York is the place all of the great communicators live, so I thought living in a place like that might help it rub off on me. I have so much trouble even speaking to people around here, and I can't keep myself from associating the problem with the place. Too many people here are completely set in their ways. 

New York is the place where great salesman and communicators thrive. They probably have all sorts of schools and programs that specialize in training people how to get along with others. (At least they would probably be able to help me. I have Autism Spectrum Disorder and do not always have great social skills.) I get this idea from the fact that a lot of really good sales training programs were written in New York.

I think you're in for a big disappointment.

Your surroundings won't change who you are as a person.  Other people won't "rub off" on you, even if you do find there's more of what you want there (which I'm skeptical of).

I think you're asking the right questions ("How can I improve my social skills, speaking skills, etc.?") but coming to the wrong answer ("Move to a place where there's lots of those people!  That will surely make me better!").

The toastmasters suggestion was a good one.  You may want to start with some basic self confidence things as well.

You can just as easily change yourself in Nowheresville as in NYC.  Work on figuring out yourself first (as you are trying to do), rather than just changing your surroundings and thinking that's the fix.

Good luck!
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plainjane

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Re: still dreaming
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2015, 02:40:31 PM »
I have Asperger's, which causes people to have trouble with non-verbal communication, and I've gotten the impression that New York is the place all of the great communicators live, so I thought living in a place like that might help it rub off on me. I have so much trouble even speaking to people around here, and I can't keep myself from associating the problem with the place. Too many people here are completely set in their ways. 
You can just as easily change yourself in Nowheresville as in NYC.  Work on figuring out yourself first (as you are trying to do), rather than just changing your surroundings and thinking that's the fix.

I both agree and disagree.  I'm more sociable in a space where there are other people who like the type of stuff I like.  Since this is a small proportion of the population, there are more likely to be 5-10 of us in my neighborhood if I live in a densely populated region than if I live in outer suburbia.  Obviously I still need to go out and meet the people and do the things, but it's easier in a place with more people.

arebelspy

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Re: still dreaming
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2015, 02:48:04 PM »
I have Asperger's, which causes people to have trouble with non-verbal communication, and I've gotten the impression that New York is the place all of the great communicators live, so I thought living in a place like that might help it rub off on me. I have so much trouble even speaking to people around here, and I can't keep myself from associating the problem with the place. Too many people here are completely set in their ways. 
You can just as easily change yourself in Nowheresville as in NYC.  Work on figuring out yourself first (as you are trying to do), rather than just changing your surroundings and thinking that's the fix.

I both agree and disagree.  I'm more sociable in a space where there are other people who like the type of stuff I like.  Since this is a small proportion of the population, there are more likely to be 5-10 of us in my neighborhood if I live in a densely populated region than if I live in outer suburbia.  Obviously I still need to go out and meet the people and do the things, but it's easier in a place with more people.

Yes, that's true to an extent.

My point was that this idea:
Quote
I've gotten the impression that New York is the place all of the great communicators live, so I thought living in a place like that might help it rub off on me.

Isn't a valid strategy for self improvement, IMO.  If anything, I think NYC would be overwhelming for someone like the OP has described himself/herself.  It could be much worse for that type of improvement.

If moving to the Big Apple is the primary strategy to gain better social skills, I think they'll be disappointed.

I don't mean to be negative. I just think the OP should reassess what their plan is for the best way to achieve their goals.
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kmb501

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Re: still dreaming
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2015, 04:10:42 PM »
I have Asperger's, which causes people to have trouble with non-verbal communication, and I've gotten the impression that New York is the place all of the great communicators live, so I thought living in a place like that might help it rub off on me. I have so much trouble even speaking to people around here, and I can't keep myself from associating the problem with the place. Too many people here are completely set in their ways. 
You can just as easily change yourself in Nowheresville as in NYC.  Work on figuring out yourself first (as you are trying to do), rather than just changing your surroundings and thinking that's the fix.

I both agree and disagree.  I'm more sociable in a space where there are other people who like the type of stuff I like.  Since this is a small proportion of the population, there are more likely to be 5-10 of us in my neighborhood if I live in a densely populated region than if I live in outer suburbia.  Obviously I still need to go out and meet the people and do the things, but it's easier in a place with more people.

Yes, that's true to an extent.

My point was that this idea:
Quote
I've gotten the impression that New York is the place all of the great communicators live, so I thought living in a place like that might help it rub off on me.

Isn't a valid strategy for self improvement, IMO.  If anything, I think NYC would be overwhelming for someone like the OP has described himself/herself.  It could be much worse for that type of improvement.

If moving to the Big Apple is the primary strategy to gain better social skills, I think they'll be disappointed.

I don't mean to be negative. I just think the OP should reassess what their plan is for the best way to achieve their goals.

Well, okay, maybe you are right, but it's not necessarily the amount of people in NYC that interests me. It's the fact that this place is the birthplace of some of the most effective communication studies in the world, and there are probably opportunities within the meet-up groups mentioned earlier, like Toastmasters for instance, that are not present in other parts of the United States. For example, my Toastmasters might have a school teacher, a pastor, a business presenter, and a few people who did public speaking and debate in college whereas the NYC Toastmasters might have professional speakers, internationally recognized writers, motivational speakers, and a plethora of resources not available to me where I live currently. Not only would a group like that within the city be a great opportunity to improve my communication skills, but it would also be an opportunity to perhaps meet renowned business people.

I do agree, though, that more research is necessary to determine if this is true and to determine if moving in NYC or a proximal area is even feasible.

arebelspy

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Re: still dreaming
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2015, 04:26:32 PM »
Well, okay, maybe you are right, but it's not necessarily the amount of people in NYC that interests me. It's the fact that this place is the birthplace of some of the most effective communication studies in the world, and there are probably opportunities within the meet-up groups mentioned earlier, like Toastmasters for instance, that are not present in other parts of the United States. For example, my Toastmasters might have a school teacher, a pastor, a business presenter, and a few people who did public speaking and debate in college whereas the NYC Toastmasters might have professional speakers, internationally recognized writers, motivational speakers, and a plethora of resources not available to me where I live currently. Not only would a group like that within the city be a great opportunity to improve my communication skills, but it would also be an opportunity to perhaps meet renowned business people.

I do agree, though, that more research is necessary to determine if this is true and to determine if moving in NYC or a proximal area is even feasible.

I think you are romanticizing it.  I think toastmasters in any major city will be fairly similar.  You won't see a giant quality difference between Chicago, NYC, LA, etc.  And based on the level you're at, the slight difference, if there was any, won't be relevant to you at this point in your journey.  I'd start with more basic steps, because diving in headfirst can be intimidating and lead to possible extinction of efforts.
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Re: still dreaming
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2015, 04:31:42 PM »
the NYC Toastmasters might have professional speakers, internationally recognized writers, motivational speakers, and a plethora of resources not available to me where I live currently. Not only would a group like that within the city be a great opportunity to improve my communication skills, but it would also be an opportunity to perhaps meet renowned business people.

I think there's a stereotype of NYC as full of bright successful people that comes largely from media aimed at non-New Yorkers (for example, does anybody who grew up in NYC actually read the New Yorker?). It seems equally likely that your NYC toastmasters group will contain three baristas from Kansas and a doorman who wants to be on Shark Tank.

Sorry, that was harsh. I'm on the Aspie/ASD spectrum myself, and grew up in a small town, and I can totally dig the "everything will be better elsewhere" perspective. But I think that elsewhere can be any live-and-let-live big city or college town.

kmb501

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Re: still dreaming
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2015, 04:53:44 PM »
the NYC Toastmasters might have professional speakers, internationally recognized writers, motivational speakers, and a plethora of resources not available to me where I live currently. Not only would a group like that within the city be a great opportunity to improve my communication skills, but it would also be an opportunity to perhaps meet renowned business people.

I think there's a stereotype of NYC as full of bright successful people that comes largely from media aimed at non-New Yorkers (for example, does anybody who grew up in NYC actually read the New Yorker?). It seems equally likely that your NYC toastmasters group will contain three baristas from Kansas and a doorman who wants to be on Shark Tank.

Sorry, that was harsh. I'm on the Aspie/ASD spectrum myself, and grew up in a small town, and I can totally dig the "everything will be better elsewhere" perspective. But I think that elsewhere can be any live-and-let-live big city or college town.

...or it may contain everything I want, but I'll be working so much to keep my tiny apartment that I won't have time to take advantage of it. I get it.

lpep

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Re: still dreaming
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2015, 04:40:07 AM »
If you have a US teaching license you could always come to China and teach in an international school here. International schools in Beijing have a big need for teachers these days, as it's hard to get people to live in dystopian fog. Living in China is a good way to crush your dreams and make you cynical and realistic.

I've heard that, but I haven't spoken to any Americans who have worked abroad as teachers firsthand. I've tried a few long distance interviews, but I've heard that I should really know what I'm getting into before I move.

American working abroad as a teacher checking in here. I commented on your other thread, too :) Ask any questions you like!

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Re: still dreaming
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2015, 04:50:53 AM »
What about Boston? It's still big and expensive and different from the South. But with roommates, it's much more feasible to live in parts of the city that are convenient to free cultural events plus all the museums and parks. There are a lot of twenty-somethings. There are Toastmasters groups.

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Re: still dreaming
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2015, 05:12:06 AM »
Well, okay, maybe you are right, but it's not necessarily the amount of people in NYC that interests me. It's the fact that this place is the birthplace of some of the most effective communication studies in the world, and there are probably opportunities within the meet-up groups mentioned earlier, like Toastmasters for instance, that are not present in other parts of the United States. For example, my Toastmasters might have a school teacher, a pastor, a business presenter, and a few people who did public speaking and debate in college whereas the NYC Toastmasters might have professional speakers, internationally recognized writers, motivational speakers, and a plethora of resources not available to me where I live currently. Not only would a group like that within the city be a great opportunity to improve my communication skills, but it would also be an opportunity to perhaps meet renowned business people.

I do agree, though, that more research is necessary to determine if this is true and to determine if moving in NYC or a proximal area is even feasible.

I think you are romanticizing it.  I think toastmasters in any major city will be fairly similar.  You won't see a giant quality difference between Chicago, NYC, LA, etc.  And based on the level you're at, the slight difference, if there was any, won't be relevant to you at this point in your journey.  I'd start with more basic steps, because diving in headfirst can be intimidating and lead to possible extinction of efforts.
When I was in Toastmasters some years ago, there was incredible the diversity of clubs within the one city. One club had a high proportion of cross-dressers. Several clubs were developed by different corporations for their staff - a mining company, a couple of banks, and a law firm. Several were for proponents of "fine dining" and either met at the upstairs room of a good restaurant or moved each time to explore a different gastronomic gem. Some were held in church halls. Some were in the outer suburbs.

Toastmasters also had a diverse range of educational courses available to all clubs. A set of awards was available to the Toastmasters leadership but these were only available if all the clubs in a grouping was performing well, so if someone wanted an award, they needed to be helping every club. This means that I would be very surprised if some clubs had a lot more opportunities than others. I found that all clubs had both good and bad speakers, but all clubs were open to anyone, so both good and bad speakers could join any club. Naturally, some clubs were better organised than others, and slotted someone in if someone else was missing. This would be the best club to join, as you would get more opportunities to practice, and thus more opportunity to improve.

overlord34

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Re: still dreaming
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2015, 06:45:58 AM »
I agree with other posters that you seem to be romanticizing things; then again, I have lived in NYC all my life and this is a romantic place.  I can't help but be inspired here; the buildings, the people, Central Park, the grandeur.  That's one of the reasons people love being here.  I've been to many other cities around the country and while I've liked many of them, I haven't found anything that comes close.  For me, it's a big plus to be in this environment; I feel alive here.  It is a very open and tolerant place too.  Anything pretty much goes here.

At the same time, it can feel lonely here with lots of people around you but no one to talk to.  And unless there's something unique to NY that you're coming here for, your day to day will probably be similar to a lot of other places in the country.  One major advantage is not needing a car. I love walking or taking the subway everywhere and not having to worry about parking.

I like to evaluate my choices by asking myself, "what's the downside?"  If you're young, single, aren't giving up anything to move like a high paying job, and have a modest savings to cushion you for at least a few months, and you think NYC might be for you, then why not come here?  Worst case you stay here six months, realize it's not for you, and move on.  And you can always tell your kids about those crazy six months you spent in the city.  Best case it works out and you're here for a few years or longer.  Just come in with realistic expectations, have a plan B in case the move doesn't work out, and I think you'll be fine.

For costs, if you're a single person in NYC I wouldn't worry about finding mustachian living solutions here.  My experience is that if you're willing to live a modest 30 minute subway ride from prime areas in Manhattan and are okay with living with roommates (this is key), you'll find something affordable.  I wouldn't live in CT or Jersey (unless you're living along the PATH train) as a single person.  The advantage of living in NYC is easy access to Manhattan and if you have to start taking hour long bus or train rides to get here you're just not going to come into NYC as often as you think.  For everything else (food, entertainment, etc.) there are plenty of frugal options here.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2015, 06:48:00 AM by overlord34 »

kmb501

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Re: still dreaming
« Reply #25 on: February 07, 2015, 03:00:39 PM »
I agree with other posters that you seem to be romanticizing things; then again, I have lived in NYC all my life and this is a romantic place.  I can't help but be inspired here; the buildings, the people, Central Park, the grandeur.  That's one of the reasons people love being here.  I've been to many other cities around the country and while I've liked many of them, I haven't found anything that comes close.  For me, it's a big plus to be in this environment; I feel alive here.  It is a very open and tolerant place too.  Anything pretty much goes here.

At the same time, it can feel lonely here with lots of people around you but no one to talk to.  And unless there's something unique to NY that you're coming here for, your day to day will probably be similar to a lot of other places in the country.  One major advantage is not needing a car. I love walking or taking the subway everywhere and not having to worry about parking.

I like to evaluate my choices by asking myself, "what's the downside?"  If you're young, single, aren't giving up anything to move like a high paying job, and have a modest savings to cushion you for at least a few months, and you think NYC might be for you, then why not come here?  Worst case you stay here six months, realize it's not for you, and move on.  And you can always tell your kids about those crazy six months you spent in the city.  Best case it works out and you're here for a few years or longer.  Just come in with realistic expectations, have a plan B in case the move doesn't work out, and I think you'll be fine.

For costs, if you're a single person in NYC I wouldn't worry about finding mustachian living solutions here.  My experience is that if you're willing to live a modest 30 minute subway ride from prime areas in Manhattan and are okay with living with roommates (this is key), you'll find something affordable.  I wouldn't live in CT or Jersey (unless you're living along the PATH train) as a single person.  The advantage of living in NYC is easy access to Manhattan and if you have to start taking hour long bus or train rides to get here you're just not going to come into NYC as often as you think.  For everything else (food, entertainment, etc.) there are plenty of frugal options here.

NYC may be a beautiful place, but the main drawback I hear about living in NYC is the expense. People are required to have 120K salaries, or at least 60K and excellent credit just to be able to afford an apartment. I don't even make 10K as a sub here. I know that's very little money, but that's one of the reasons I want to move. I guess it's sort of a catch 22, though. I have to have savings to go somewhere else without a job lined up, but I need a better job to come up with enough money to save. Yes, I've taken the advice, and I'm slashing my expenses, but it's still going to yield very little savings at the end of the year, just because my salary is so low.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2015, 03:04:37 PM by kmb501 »

Cwadda

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Re: still dreaming
« Reply #26 on: February 07, 2015, 03:41:13 PM »
Keep in mind the standard of living in the south is going to be way different than a city like NY. You should expect your pay to go up somewhat proportionately. As long as you continue living frugally and your job field is supported in the city, then I see no reason you can't get up and leave. Consider the financial implications though: I.e. Heat bills, no car, etc.

And it's funny that I read a thread like this; I actually feel the opposite. I've lived in CT my whole life and I want nothing more than to move down south or to the midwest. The traffic, people on their phones in the car, the constant rush everywhere, the cold. I'm fed up with it. People down south are so much more friendly and laid back.

kmb501

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Re: still dreaming
« Reply #27 on: February 07, 2015, 03:47:57 PM »
Keep in mind the standard of living in the south is going to be way different than a city like NY. You should expect your pay to go up somewhat proportionately. As long as you continue living frugally and your job field is supported in the city, then I see no reason you can't get up and leave. Consider the financial implications though: I.e. Heat bills, no car, etc.

And it's funny that I read a thread like this; I actually feel the opposite. I've lived in CT my whole life and I want nothing more than to move down south or to the midwest. The traffic, people on their phones in the car, the constant rush everywhere, the cold. I'm fed up with it. People down south are so much more friendly and laid back.

I hear that from a lot of people, but I guess the perspective of someone with Asperger's is a little different. I don't read people well, so I really only find the hyper-gregarious people attractive anyway, and there aren't very many of those around here, and, oddly the ones I find are usually transplants. Maybe there are a lot of genuinely friendly people whom I overlook. I do wish I could connect with people better, but living where communicating well is not a huge requirement and there's plenty of opportunities to practice would probably be the best thing for me, really. Down here, I'm not considered really friendly, but in a place like NYC or some other busy city where people hardly nod at one another, I would probably be considered a pretty nice person.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2015, 03:54:19 PM by kmb501 »

Cwadda

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Re: still dreaming
« Reply #28 on: February 07, 2015, 03:53:24 PM »
Keep in mind the standard of living in the south is going to be way different than a city like NY. You should expect your pay to go up somewhat proportionately. As long as you continue living frugally and your job field is supported in the city, then I see no reason you can't get up and leave. Consider the financial implications though: I.e. Heat bills, no car, etc.

And it's funny that I read a thread like this; I actually feel the opposite. I've lived in CT my whole life and I want nothing more than to move down south or to the midwest. The traffic, people on their phones in the car, the constant rush everywhere, the cold. I'm fed up with it. People down south are so much more friendly and laid back.

I hear that from a lot of people, but I guess the perspective of someone with Asperger's is a little different. I don't read people well, so I really only find the hyper-gregarious people attractive anyway, and there aren't very many of those around here, and, oddly the ones I find are usually transplants. Maybe there are a lot of genuinely friendly people whom I overlook. I do wish I could connect with people better, but living where communicating well is not a huge requirement and there's plenty of opportunities to practice would probably be the best thing for me, really. Down here, I'm not especially considered friendly, but in a place like NYC or some other busy city where people hardly nod at one another, I would probably be considered a pretty nice person.

Then by all means you should go for it. If you have all the tools you need to be happy and successful in life, then you should strive to achieve that goal.

overlord34

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Re: still dreaming
« Reply #29 on: February 07, 2015, 04:19:10 PM »
You certainly don't need 120k and not even 60k to live in NYC unless you insist on living alone in Manhattan. My wife and I spend 25k-30k/year for two people combined (we save the rest) and we live in a nice neighborhood with a normal, frugal lifestyle.   Find an apartment share in a decent neighborhood in Brooklyn or Queens (Sunnyside and Forest Hills are two good choices that come to mind) about 30 minutes from Manhattan and your rent will be reasonable even on a teacher's salary.  For food there's Trader Joes or whatever grocery store is in your neighborhood.  For transportation you won't need to pay for a car.  After that life is as cheap or expensive as you want it to be.  There are plenty of free events here, but for me just walking around the different NYC parks and neighborhoods is my entertainment. 

I hear you though that it'll be hard to move here with no job and little savings.  It makes sense what you're doing applying to jobs in multiple cities and seeing what turns up.  I'm not saying NYC should necessarily be where you should go; I just want to dispel the myth that you can't make it here except on an investment banker's salary.  My first job I made 42k/year and I was able to pay my expenses and save money too.