Author Topic: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota  (Read 9997 times)

roscoeman

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Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« on: June 19, 2017, 05:15:04 PM »
I was recently presented an opportunity with my current employer to move to Grand Forks, North Dakota. It'll be a lateral move and my salary wont decrease. My wife works from home and her salary wont change either. The company will pay for the move and home sale so we wont lose anything on commissions which is a plus. We've been here for a couple years but we're growing tired of the Cost of Living and sunshine tax. For those that moved out of SoCal, do you regret it?

Johnez

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2017, 05:23:43 PM »
Popular topic, leaving California, hehe.  Good luck with your search for answers.  My suggestions:

Search on google terms like these:

"Living in Grand Forks, ND" followed by "quora," "reddit" or "forum."  You'll get a decent spectrum of real people giving real answers, not some magazine's top 10 list.

Useful sites also:
Sperlingers Best Places
City-Data (both the profile page of the city, and the forum posts)
Area Vibes

Thinkum

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2017, 06:05:42 PM »
Do you have family in either areas? I am from SoCA, but moved to DFW around 4 years ago, and recently moved back home to SoCA. One of the biggest reasons was missing family and friends. When I left CA, I too was tired of the COL and the "sunshine tax" (I like that term btw). Being away for almost 4 years I had forgotten how much I love the diverse nature all around the state. I would ask yourselves what is it you like/love about SoCA and of that list, what is unique to being here. I did not regret leaving and I am glad I did since it gave me the needed perspective.

Cromacster

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2017, 06:24:56 PM »
I lived in Grand Forks for about 5 years. If your keeping your SoCal salaries, that will be a big boost to your savings rates as GF has a pretty low cost of living.

The town itself is pretty nice and clean. You can bike to anywhere in city limits within 20-30min.  It has some nice trails through the city and along the river.  It has a small downtown with some interesting shops and restaurants.

It's a college town so that brings in some interesting plays and shows, but the downtown is overrun with drunk college students on the weekends.  It is also restaurant chain central with 11 subways last I counted.

Then there is the winter. Visit in February if you can before you make a decision. Not many people understand what -20F with 40mph winds feels like.

If you go, visit Parrots Cay for some beer and wings :)

MsPeacock

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2017, 06:54:39 PM »
Where are you from originally? I ask because if you are unaccustomed to winter it is worth considering the impact the weather/seasons will have on your activities and things you like to do. I can't comment specifically on ND - but I grew up and lived in MI for 25 years before decamping to warmer climates (MD - which isn't even that far south). Winter days are short, dark, extremely cold, and from what I understand of ND - windy. If you are someone who needs regular doses of outdoor activity and sunlight - consider how you might fill that need when it is -20 outside. Personally, I now - even in MD - plan a winter escape to Mexico or similar.

OTH - your money will go much much farther in ND.

KayakMom

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2017, 07:31:58 PM »
Most of this echos the others but I had to answer because I may be uniquely able to input here: I am from 60 miles of North of Grand Forks and lived in GF for some of grade school, then back there for most of college.  I went to high school in Riverside county and started college at UCSD.
What can I tell you?  40-below weeds out the shitheads.  The ratio of losers/jackasses to nice people is much lower in ND.
It's a nice place to raise kids and your dollars will go much farther.  The people are amazing.  If you like hockey, the University usually has a stellar team.  The town is pretty and the summers are nice... but the winters!!! If you've lived in SD your whole life you have NO IDEA!! they are freezing and they are LONG.  Some people like it, most don't.  It's really hard to decide if the other perks are worth the winters. (I guess that is why I've bounced back and forth from ND/MT to CA for most of my life)- or maybe I'm one of the shitheads that were weeded out- lol.
PM me if you have any specific questions.

Laserjet3051

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2017, 08:50:41 PM »
How about taking a middle path and committing to ND for X years to build the 'stache with a commitment that you will develop an exit strategy once you hit your target savings/equity.

Then its off to greener (warmer) pastures, socal, or otherwise.

MerryMcQ

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2017, 10:18:11 PM »
We lived in San Diego for 3 years before moving back to the Pacific NW (Seattle area). I've had regrets a few times - like around April this year when it felt like we'd had the longest, wettest winter ever and it just wouldn't end!

Like you, the Sunshine tax and cost of living was not worth the benefits (perfect weather). We also didn't like the crowds. Overall, I'm so happy we left and I'm not at all interested in moving back! However, I'd suggest NOT having the weather app tell you what the weather is like in SD in the middle of a cold winter. That will drive you crazy. Believe me.

ambimammular

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2017, 10:28:07 AM »
ND's my home state and DH and I spent 5 years of grad school in Oregon, so there's my "cred".

You're gonna miss diversity. ND doesn't have it. That's not limited to racial diversity. I still get nostalgic for facial piercings and bright hair, other languages and religions. I swear they make recycling purposefully difficult. Obesity is common because the cold drives you indoors months of the year. There's also a subtler way of speaking, where a blunt person may not pick up on social cues. If you've lived anywhere in the midwest you're probably familiar with it. 

On the positive, there's an honesty there. Anyone you smile at will help you. Listen to some Lake Wobegon stories to get the gist of it. Live there a year or more, and just pocket all that savings. If you're interested in FIRE at all, the low cost of living will help push you there.

Cowardly Toaster

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2017, 10:41:46 AM »
The nice thing about Grand Forks is that it is next to MN where the trees start. It's going to be very different from Cally, but it has it's charms. The people are very nice out there. You can leave your car unlocked. Everyone looks out for eachother.

AZDude

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2017, 04:56:05 PM »
For those that moved out of SoCal, do you regret it?

Every. Single. Day.

Leaving was still the smart decision.

ltt

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2017, 08:56:19 PM »
Seriously think about if you like to stay indoors for 5 months out of the year.  It's starts getting cold in mid-November; December is colder and somewhat snowy; and January and February can be brutal.  March is cold, and living farther north means snow takes longer to melt.  Combine the really cold weather with the sun setting around 5-6 p.m. and the winters can get very long.

Noodle

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2017, 09:48:08 AM »
I will always vote for the adventure, unless there is some kind of serious risk of not being able to end it or come back if it doesn't work out. I know a lot of older folks who were sent to some oddball locations thanks to the military or employers. They have wonderful stories and it is clear that although the experiences weren't always fun to go through, with the right attitude it was a real bonding experience for the family. The winter will be the big thing, not just the cold and dark, but also having to shovel snow, watch for frozen pipes, drive on ice, etc. Otherwise, a college town in a red state is going to be moderate politically at best; the retail and restaurants will tend to be corporate; you'll always be close to things in town but have to be prepared to drive long distances for other things; the closest high-level medical care, I believe, is in Minneapolis. If none of that bothers you much, have at it and enjoy getting to know the North Dakotans! Also, I strongly recommend giving it at LEAST a year (if not two) before you decide whether you like it. It's amazing how much something can freak you out the first time, and by the second time around, it's no big deal.

nexus

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2017, 12:19:58 PM »
I can't speak to SD, but I grew up in Norcal and moved to TN for a minute (okay, well, a year). I loved how green it was there, didn't mind the humidity, the people were much nicer, and I loved the thunderstorms. I didn't grow up near the ocean, nor did I take frequent beach trips, but in TN I didn't have that option. One of the things I did after college was venture off to the beach towns and just sit in the sand and contemplate life (ironically how I chose to give Nashville a shot). I didn't realize how much I'd miss that once the nearest beach was an 8 hour drive away. Being single in a new place was incredibly exciting, but also sorta lonely.

I didn't have family out there, nor did I find a decent substitute for my beach therapy*. The sunsets weren't as epic as CA either. It seemed like once the sun started setting, it was pretty much done. I didn't get to take pics of pastel skies and enjoy long sunsets like I could back home**. I missed that stuff and it just so happened to work out that my job asked me to move back to the west coast.

Seriously, it IS expensive here. Stupid expensive, especially when I see that $300k can get me a 5 bedroom house in Texas or Tennessee, yet I can barely get a 1 bedroom condo for that much here. But, the weather is great and depending on where you are in the state you can be 1-2 hours from beach, snow, suburb, or big city. I don't want to know what -20 feels like, so I'll gladly pay the tax and enjoy my tan.

I guess I'm taking the opposite approach: Make as much as I can while I'm here, keep my living situation minimal, then consider escaping once the stash is built. If I could keep my CA pay and move elsewhere, I'd definitely give it a shot...just not where it snows or gets that damned cold. :) Hope this helps & best of luck!!

*Live music in downtown Nashville was epic, but didn't give me the same sort of peace and mental clarity the ocean did.
**Anyone else have a similar experience or am I crazy?

nouveauRiche

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2017, 12:53:11 PM »
Any chance you might hang onto your SD home and rent it out? 

We know people who sold and moved away from our HCOL area.  After a year or two, they missed it and wanted to move back but they were priced out of the housing market.  Just something to consider.

Edited to add:  I don't think I could handle the lack of diversity in ND.  YMMV.

Guide2003

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2017, 10:13:31 PM »
If you're a fan of freedom, I think it will be refreshing to get out of California. You sure you could handle the climate differences though?

mm1970

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2017, 11:04:58 AM »
I can't speak to SD, but I grew up in Norcal and moved to TN for a minute (okay, well, a year). I loved how green it was there, didn't mind the humidity, the people were much nicer, and I loved the thunderstorms. I didn't grow up near the ocean, nor did I take frequent beach trips, but in TN I didn't have that option. One of the things I did after college was venture off to the beach towns and just sit in the sand and contemplate life (ironically how I chose to give Nashville a shot). I didn't realize how much I'd miss that once the nearest beach was an 8 hour drive away. Being single in a new place was incredibly exciting, but also sorta lonely.

I didn't have family out there, nor did I find a decent substitute for my beach therapy*. The sunsets weren't as epic as CA either. It seemed like once the sun started setting, it was pretty much done. I didn't get to take pics of pastel skies and enjoy long sunsets like I could back home**. I missed that stuff and it just so happened to work out that my job asked me to move back to the west coast.

Seriously, it IS expensive here. Stupid expensive, especially when I see that $300k can get me a 5 bedroom house in Texas or Tennessee, yet I can barely get a 1 bedroom condo for that much here. But, the weather is great and depending on where you are in the state you can be 1-2 hours from beach, snow, suburb, or big city. I don't want to know what -20 feels like, so I'll gladly pay the tax and enjoy my tan.

I guess I'm taking the opposite approach: Make as much as I can while I'm here, keep my living situation minimal, then consider escaping once the stash is built. If I could keep my CA pay and move elsewhere, I'd definitely give it a shot...just not where it snows or gets that damned cold. :) Hope this helps & best of luck!!

*Live music in downtown Nashville was epic, but didn't give me the same sort of peace and mental clarity the ocean did.
**Anyone else have a similar experience or am I crazy?
I could sell my house in SB, buy a same-sized house in my hubby's home town (upstate NY) for 1/7 the price, and retire.

I think about it all the time.

But then.  Winter. Snow. Ice.
Summer.  Mosquitoes and ticks

nouveauRiche

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2017, 11:07:31 AM »
I could sell my house in SB, buy a same-sized house in my hubby's home town (upstate NY) for 1/7 the price, and retire.

I think about it all the time.

But then.  Winter. Snow. Ice.
Summer.  Mosquitoes and ticks

Yup.  I can relate.



ETA:  Damn!  Someone quoted me before I had a chance to withdraw from the fray.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2017, 11:18:03 AM by nouveauRiche »

Tetsuya Hondo

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2017, 11:15:07 AM »
If you're a fan of freedom, I think it will be refreshing to get out of California.

Oh, right.  I forgot there isn't any freedom in CA.  Stockholm syndrome, maybe? 

Yes, definitely better to move away.

CA is a hellscape. I only visit the Wine Country as often as humanly possible to remind myself how good I have it back home. /massive_sarcasm

Speaking of, Dead Kennedy's anyone (and I can't believe the Gov Jerry Brown part is still current)?

I am Governor Jerry Brown
My aura smiles and never frowns
Soon I will be president
Carter power will soon go 'way
I will be Führer one day
I will command all of you
Your kids will meditate in school
Your kids will meditate in school
California Über Alles
California Über Alles
Über Alles California
Über Alles California
Zen fascists will control you
Hundred percent natural
You will jog for the master race
And always wear the happy face
Close your eyes, can't happen here
Big Bro' on white horse is near
The hippies won't come back, you say
Mellow out or you will pay
Mellow out or you will pay
California Über Alles
California Über Alles
Über Alles California
Über Alles California
Now it is nineteen eighty-four
Knock-knock at your front door
It's the suede denim secret police
They have come for your uncool niece
Come quietly to the camp
You'd look nice as a drawstring lamp
Don't you worry, it's only a shower
For your clothes, here's a pretty flower
Die on organic poison gas
Serpent's egg's already hatched
You will croak, you little clown
When you mess with President Brown
When you mess with President Brown
California Über Alles
California Über Alles
Über Alles California
Über Alles California
« Last Edit: June 23, 2017, 03:14:13 PM by Tetsuya Hondo »

Cali Nonya

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2017, 11:21:04 AM »
I'm from SoCal originally, and made the leap to northern climes.

It's not that bad.  I actually loved living in smaller towns and northern places much more than the crazy crowds of SoCal or the mess of Texas.  My big leap was Houston TX to Anchorage AK.  Having never lived anywhere with snow yet in my life, it was a leap, but worked out really well.  Snow and long winters isn't that bad, (skiing!).  A dump of a foot of snow over-night when you have an important client meeting in the morning ... actually not that much of a issue since everyone has to wait for the snow-ploughs to get through before they can get to work also.  Worried about driving in scary weather conditions ... turns out you just need to follow patiently (with space) behind the local people who know what they are doing.

I have spent quite a bit of time in N. Dakota.  It's a nice state.  Clean, open, friendly.  I'd say go for it.
But I will admit I got pulled back to California for 1) family and 2) employment.  But I am really glad I have lived other places and will be very happy when I reach escape velocity to break away from Hotel California again.

Trifele

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2017, 01:32:31 PM »

Then there is the winter. Visit in February if you can before you make a decision. Not many people understand what -20F with 40mph winds feels like.


+1.  If you can visit in the winter before you have to make a decision to move there, that would be best.  I grew up in northern Iowa, lived in Minnesota for 5 years.  If you have not experienced winter up there, it is hard to imagine it.  As others have said, it's more than just the low temperatures.  It's the wind, the darkness, the isolation.  And it is f*ing long -- 5+ months. 

But it's true that the people up north are truly nice and help each other out.   There is no other place in the country I'd rather be stranded by the side of the road, or rushed to a hospital.  They are stand-up, good human beings.   

Laura33

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2017, 01:33:40 PM »
So, my $0.02 from 4 years in the state next door:

1.  Winter.  If you haven't experienced it, you can't imagine it.  Cold that sucks your breath out of your chest.  Dark dark dark for months -- if you tend towards SAD, this is not the place for you.  And the worst part is how long it lasts -- think October-April.  In college we had a good 18" snowstorm on 3/31; there was still some snow in some of the piles in late May.  On the plus side, you will be in an environment where people have learned to make winter fun, because you cannot survive 6 months indoors without going stir-crazy.  Broomball is awesome.  Some winter days are breathtakingly beautiful, with crystal blue skies during the day and a Milk Way brighter than you have ever seen at night.  And your body adjusts to the cold.  It's just the length that got me -- March just flat-out sucked, because I was SO ready for summer.

2.  Significantly less diversity, of every variety -- people, food, culture, landscape, etc.  But most of the people who live there are pretty down to earth and good folks to know.

3.  Being landlocked.  I didn't know how much I liked the ability to go to the beach until I couldn't.

ysette9

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2017, 01:54:37 PM »
As a die-hard, life-long Californian my first instinct is to give this a chance*. Don't buy a house in the new location, but use this as a chance to rent something affordable close to your new work and save up like mad. More money in the bank will always mean more options, and you aren't making this decision of where to live for the rest of your lives, only for the next year or two. If it ends up being to your liking, then great!. If not, then you can always move back with more money in the bank and a different experience under your belt. I have appreciated the times I have lived and traveled outside of CA, if for nothing else than a renewed appreciation for home once I am back.

*I caveat this by saying I'd recommend this provided you are not LGBT, minority, disabled, parents, planning on being parents in the next year or two, or in some other group that would lose out of the protections offered by the state of CA. My friend just left CA for CA and is having regrets in some ways now that she is learning about all of the benefits she gave up for maternity and paternity leave in particular.

Little Nell

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2017, 03:02:12 PM »
What is this dark Minnesota/ND winter of which people speak? I grew up there and my memories are of dazzling, blinding whiteness on the coldest days, and of getting outside to x-c ski and run, except when it was n the -30s. But then, I live in
Oregon now, and this winter was a dark one.  Read Laura Ingalls Wilder's book The Long Winter. That was S Dakota though.

melanie2008

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2017, 04:23:08 PM »
I am from Grand Forks and grew up there. I have not lived there for 16 years (don't plan on going back) but still go back since my family is there. It is OK. There are good things like good schools and logical people so I think it is really good if you are raising a family. In the winter it gets dark early (5pm), but it is not grey and cloudy. It is very bright and sunny during the days most frequently. Lack of cloud cover makes it colder, but it is really nice to have such brightness during the winter. The winters have gotten milder from when I grew up, but still very cold but honestly, once the temperature is above 20 it feels pretty nice because you got used to the temperature being less than 10 degrees for so long.

The hospital there can be terrible, which I never understood since there is a medical school in town. If they can't figure out what is wrong with you, you need to go to Fargo (1 hours south), where they can solve most things. If they can't figure it out or your issue is very complicated, you go to Mayo in MN.

Start thinking about what winter outdoor sport you may like since you will need something to keep yourself happy and active: snowmobiling, cross country skiing, ice fishing, ice skating, hockey, sledding.

For me the best part of Grand Forks was being close to MN. Minnesota is beautiful.

calimom

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2017, 04:53:15 PM »
You can check out anytime, but you can never leave.

younggunner

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2017, 07:18:11 PM »
I don't know why anyone would do this?   North Dakota nights in like September / October are borderline unbearable.  Even 20degrees with 40+ mph constant winds are bone chilling even to people 'used to it' .   Never been to San Diego, but I hear it is amongst the best of climates the U.S. Has to offer.    I just don't see why anyone would choose North Dakota, much less leave San Diego !.  I think it would take a substantial pay raise / promotion to move to ND.  Just my .02 from someone who worked in Williston N.D.   

Goldielocks

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2017, 07:48:03 PM »

Then there is the winter. Visit in February if you can before you make a decision. Not many people understand what -20F with 40mph winds feels like.


+1.  If you can visit in the winter before you have to make a decision to move there, that would be best.  I grew up in northern Iowa, lived in Minnesota for 5 years.  If you have not experienced winter up there, it is hard to imagine it.  As others have said, it's more than just the low temperatures.  It's the wind, the darkness, the isolation.  And it is f*ing long -- 5+ months. 

But it's true that the people up north are truly nice and help each other out.   There is no other place in the country I'd rather be stranded by the side of the road, or rushed to a hospital.  They are stand-up, good human beings.

Huh,

I lived in Winnipeg, MB for 17years (a lot like Grand Forks, where we occasionally went for cross border shopping deals, and there was that ski hill about half way between, in the USA -- Frostfire ski area?)

Then I moved to Calgary (think of it a bit like Denver, North - dry ranching country), then to outside of San Francisco (away from the daily mist), then to Vancouver BC (lovely except for the 4 wet and DARK months.. nothing is dark like Vancouver Dark and drizzle).

What I remember most about the ND area was how super bright and sunny it was -- the sunniest spot I have ever lived in.   Yep, winter nights seem to start at 5pm, but otherwise, summer or winter == sunshine there.  Cold in winter, yes, but not miserable.   Skating in the sunshine on a ice pond-- sign me up!  Even strong summer heat with warm nights for super sized tomato growing (for only 6 weeks though, so it is nice, not miserable)

And Big +1000 about the open, honest, friendly nature.   That I definitely recall fondly.

In comparison, What do I remember about San Francisco most fondly?  Every day was a lovely day.  Well. Until summer came and it was 100 degree days... then UGH.  A/C bill, rolling brown outs.  brown grass everywhere.. drought, forest fires (in LA), earthquake dangers.  Traffic.

Laura Ingalls

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2017, 10:28:44 PM »
During the winter of 2013-2014 I lived almost exactly 300 miles straight south of Grand Forks.  It was the most awful winter ever.  My heat bill was 4 figures a month.  The same snow would drift my driveway shut multiple times.  No body has talked about the constant wind.  I have experienced several winters with more snow and dreariness but nothing so awful.


Goldielocks

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2017, 10:50:17 PM »
Laura,  I believe San Diego also has a lot of wind....

Laura33

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2017, 11:05:09 PM »
Agree with later posters -- to clarify, by "dark" I meant "damn the sun sets early and rises late."  The winter days themselves are awesomely brilliant.  Much better than my current mid-Atlantic cold grey for weeks at a time.

KisLivingAbroad

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2017, 11:06:36 PM »
After 30+ years living in the North East I moved to San Diego in 2014 and lived there for 2 years before relocating abroad for work. I'd be sure to experience a week of a North Dakota winter before selling your home. It is amazing how quickly I adapted to and took the SD weather for granted.

Outside of housing costs do you really anticipate reducing your cost of living?   

I'd pick the weather over a lateral job move and hope a better job opportunity comes up.

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk


Trifele

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #32 on: June 24, 2017, 03:55:51 AM »
Agree with later posters -- to clarify, by "dark" I meant "damn the sun sets early and rises late."  The winter days themselves are awesomely brilliant.  Much better than my current mid-Atlantic cold grey for weeks at a time.

+1.  That is what I meant as well.  Yes the sun shines a lot in the winter, which is great.  But the days are really really short.  You go to work in the dark and come home in the dark.

chasesfish

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #33 on: June 24, 2017, 10:23:15 AM »
Do you have family in either areas? I am from SoCA, but moved to DFW around 4 years ago, and recently moved back home to SoCA. One of the biggest reasons was missing family and friends. When I left CA, I too was tired of the COL and the "sunshine tax" (I like that term btw). Being away for almost 4 years I had forgotten how much I love the diverse nature all around the state. I would ask yourselves what is it you like/love about SoCA and of that list, what is unique to being here. I did not regret leaving and I am glad I did since it gave me the needed perspective.

This plus you can save a bunch of money in the short-term.

iris lily

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #34 on: June 24, 2017, 11:40:38 AM »
I can't speak to SD, but I grew up in Norcal and moved to TN for a minute (okay, well, a year). I loved how green it was there, didn't mind the humidity, the people were much nicer, and I loved the thunderstorms. I didn't grow up near the ocean, nor did I take frequent beach trips, but in TN I didn't have that option. One of the things I did after college was venture off to the beach towns and just sit in the sand and contemplate life (ironically how I chose to give Nashville a shot). I didn't realize how much I'd miss that once the nearest beach was an 8 hour drive away. Being single in a new place was incredibly exciting, but also sorta lonely.

I didn't have family out there, nor did I find a decent substitute for my beach therapy*. The sunsets weren't as epic as CA either. It seemed like once the sun started setting, it was pretty much done. I didn't get to take pics of pastel skies and enjoy long sunsets like I could back home**. I missed that stuff and it just so happened to work out that my job asked me to move back to the west coast.

Seriously, it IS expensive here. Stupid expensive, especially when I see that $300k can get me a 5 bedroom house in Texas or Tennessee, yet I can barely get a 1 bedroom condo for that much here. But, the weather is great and depending on where you are in the state you can be 1-2 hours from beach, snow, suburb, or big city. I don't want to know what -20 feels like, so I'll gladly pay the tax and enjoy my tan.

I guess I'm taking the opposite approach: Make as much as I can while I'm here, keep my living situation minimal, then consider escaping once the stash is built. If I could keep my CA pay and move elsewhere, I'd definitely give it a shot...just not where it snows or gets that damned cold. :) Hope this helps & best of luck!!

*Live music in downtown Nashville was epic, but didn't give me the same sort of peace and mental clarity the ocean did.
**Anyone else have a similar experience or am I crazy?
I could sell my house in SB, buy a same-sized house in my hubby's home town (upstate NY) for 1/7 the price, and retire.

I think about it all the time.

But then.  Winter. Snow. Ice.
Summer.  Mosquitoes and ticks

It makes you hardy. Haha.

Naw,
I toy with the idea of going back to northern Iowa ( the soil, the lovely loamy, beautiful fertile soil!) but theneality sets in about ice. snow I dont mind.

But then you can always go,south during Jan-march but that aint cheap.

Elderwood17

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #35 on: June 24, 2017, 03:49:35 PM »
Two of my siblings lived in Grand Forks and I grew up fairly nearby. 

Pro's:  great people, good work ethics, local governments function well, low crime.

Con's: winter, not much to do.   

Great place to grow up.  Living there I loved it. Do don't think winters were that big a deal.   Once I left I realized how much nicer the rest of the country is in terms of weather, scenery, activities.   Now  I refuse to visit except between Memorial Day and Labor Day.   Haven't no visted San Diego I couldn't imagine picking Grand Forks over it, except for the LCOL to grow the Stache

nouveauRiche

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #36 on: June 25, 2017, 07:23:35 PM »
Where did OP go?

LeRainDrop

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #37 on: June 25, 2017, 09:22:36 PM »
Where did OP go?

Maybe to Grand Forks, ND!

roscoeman

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #38 on: June 25, 2017, 09:58:15 PM »
I have not moved that suddenly😁I appreciate all the comments, lots of great advice given thus far. We're toying with the idea. Saving a bunch of cash and building the stache makes a lot of sense. We're in an area with great schools, the kid is entering 9th grade. Grand Forks schools look just OK, I'm thinking how I would react if my parents pulled me away to a new smaller school setting where kids grew up around each other from grade school. Then there's the weather aspect, we think it's cold when it's 65, can't imagine -30 degrees or colder with windchill.


Where did OP go?

Maybe to Grand Forks, ND!

meatface

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #39 on: June 26, 2017, 06:15:24 AM »
I would not move.

I lived in CA for 10 years (4 years in SoCal, 6 years in NorCal). I now live in New England.

A few points:
  • Once you move out of CA and its HCOL, you will find it VERY difficult to ever move back. Once you get used to lower COL, the thought of moving back to CA will seem batshit insane. At least that's our experience and is the only reason we haven't moved back to CA. The more Mustachian you are, the worse this gets. My point is that, if you see yourself moving back to CA, you shouldn't move to ND.
  • You can get used to the winter. People can adapt. The problem is that, unless you like winter in general and have hobbies that work in very cold weather, then you may hate it. If you have lots of outdoor hobbies that you like to do year around, then don't move. People who move from CA to MT, for example, are known for lasting only a few winters. I imagine it's similar in ND.
  • Politics. It's going to be really different in ND. If you hate Trump, then you'll suddenly be surrounded by Trump-lovers. Are you okay with that? If you love Trump, then move to ND.
     

nouveauRiche

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #40 on: June 26, 2017, 10:19:47 AM »
I have not moved that suddenly😁I


Phew!  ;)

Goldendog777

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #41 on: June 26, 2017, 12:33:21 PM »
I was born and raised in Bismarck, ND and we went to UND in Grand Forks for college.  As soon as I graduated, I got the hell out of dodge and moved to Las Vegas, the totally opposite extreme in weather.  It was the weather that I could not wait to leave.  Absolutely dreck in my opinion.  My parents still live in Bismarck and now they have a winter house here.  I never visit in the winter.  Unless you know what it's like to live in -0* temperatures with no sun for months on end, I highly advise against it.  I would gladly pay a sun tax.  I love San Diego! 

Cassie

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #42 on: June 26, 2017, 01:06:47 PM »
It is the land of the extremes. Hot and humid in summer and freezing in winter. I say this as someone that grew up in WI.  Plus the wind is awful. I had a job offer there but did not take it. I live in Northern NV and love it.

AZDude

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #43 on: June 27, 2017, 03:44:17 PM »
Laura,  I believe San Diego also has a lot of wind....

It does, but it is a cool ocean breeze that hits you on a warm day. Very nice. At least compared to a cold wind or here, where it is a burning hot, dusty wind that gets sand in your eyes and makes your face feel like it is melting.

Goldielocks

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #44 on: June 28, 2017, 12:49:28 AM »
^^  Interesting response..

Wild weather (big storm) is actually kind of fun. 

California's property tax is not cheap -- because homes there are not cheap.. unless you have lived in the same county for 15 years now, Property tax in California on a annual dollar basis is 2x the high rate of an identical house (size / lot), in ND.

AC is optional in ND if  you have a basement to sleep in (or porch) for a few weeks per year.

I agree to check it out first, but the there are trade offs to everything, and home prices alone drove me away from California.  Thirty years to pay off a huge mortgage each month that required a life-long commitment to a highly paid, stressful job.   Yikes.   I would only stay in an expensive area of California if I had family nearby holding me there.

It's a very large cost of living increase for the same salary in California to North Dakota, including the cost of taxes, and very likely medical insurance and other fees.

ETA -- I looked up the COL calculator.   Keeping your same salary is like making 35% more salary, if you live in ND.  Wow.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2017, 12:56:41 AM by Goldielocks »

Trifele

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #45 on: June 28, 2017, 04:00:34 AM »
^^  Interesting response..

Wild weather (big storm) is actually kind of fun. 


Ah, no.  No fun at all IMO.  I think I know what you mean (like it's thrilling?) but that is one thing I do not miss at all about the upper midwest.  Having grown up there, I still have nightmares from time to time about tornadoes and have vivid memories of seeing the rubble of nearby towns that got hit.  Nothing fun about weather that can rip trees out by the roots, wreck your house, or kill you.   We live down in the southeast now, and that is one of the things that we appreciate.  There are no tornadoes and a thunderstorm here is  -- just a thunderstorm.  Unlike up north where just a thunderstorm (no tornado even) can feel like the end of the world. 

Goldielocks

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #46 on: June 29, 2017, 10:55:47 PM »
Grand forks.

Since 1958 there have been 4 storm events with a tornado score strength of 3 or 4.   
In that time, one fatality, and 3 storms that resulted in injury.

Obviously, tornado destruction is a terrible, terrible, thing, but ND is not the typical region for it.

Laura Ingalls

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #47 on: June 30, 2017, 08:15:57 AM »
Grand Forks has a history of nasty flooding.

It really isn't in tornado alley.  I was talking about 30 mile winds that blow snow around and causes whiteouts and your driveway to drift shut for the second or third time.  Nobodies idea of a good time especially if the actual air temperature is below zero.

I actually enjoy a good non tornado thunderstorm on the prairie. You can see it for miles and miles

Trifele

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #48 on: June 30, 2017, 08:31:16 AM »
Grand forks.

Since 1958 there have been 4 storm events with a tornado score strength of 3 or 4.   
In that time, one fatality, and 3 storms that resulted in injury.

Obviously, tornado destruction is a terrible, terrible, thing, but ND is not the typical region for it.

Yes, you're right that ND has fewer tornados than other parts of the upper Midwest.  I agree that typical storm impact is very location-specific, and I don't know GF's specifics. 

Not to derail the thread, but EF 1 and 2 tornados can cause plenty of damage as well.  In our last year in the northern midwest before we moved away, a "little" EF-1 hit our town.  It caused massive tree loss and serious (but spotty) building damage.  Two people seriously injured, no deaths.

Even thunderstorms in certain places cause serious property damage.  Growing up and then living in the midwest as an adult, we averaged a new roof every 8-10 years due to storm damage.  Hail and wind, mostly.  And we lost a number of trees (fairly big ones) to high-wind thunderstorms.   They can be colossal, and I definitely do not miss those! 

FireHiker

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Re: Stay in San Diego or move to North Dakota
« Reply #49 on: June 30, 2017, 09:47:59 AM »
As a fellow San Diegan, I read this and have been thinking about it. Is it a possibility to rent out your home here in San Diego and move to ND for a bit to try it out? Then you aren't priced out of the market if you want to come back. I'm not sure what part of San Diego you call home, or if you own your home/when you bought, but I was shocked recently to see we could rent our house out for 125% of our mortgage.

We are planning in the long-term to leave San Diego for a L(er)COL (not necessarily truly "low" but "lower", likely CO or PNW) area eventually. But, if we were unsure about really wanting to leave San Diego for good, I think we would rent our house out and travel around a bit to confirm we really wanted to live elsewhere. I don't have ND on my list because I think there isn't enough diversity there for me personally, but then I've also considered parts of Montana and Wyoming where that would be the case too. If it were me, I might seriously consider it, just for the experience of living somewhere different for a few years. Besides, even if it isn't a good long-term fit, you may come out ahead financially if you can rent out your home in San Diego and enjoy the much-lower cost of living there for a few years, since you said you wouldn't be taking a salary hit, right?