Author Topic: Starting over from scratch, seeking advice  (Read 2974 times)

Max4

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Starting over from scratch, seeking advice
« on: May 30, 2018, 08:03:30 PM »
Age: 32
Income: $0
Net Worth: $0

I dropped out of college a decade ago to try and make it in the world of internet tech. I started a company which—at it's height—earned me about 2k a month, and tapered off down to $0 (where I'm currently at). Due to the financial loss, I'm back at my parents house and I'm now unemployed and heir to $7,401 worth of debt.

So let's recap:
  • College drop out
  • Unemployed
  • No external work history (only experience is my own company and even mentioning it seems to cause resume rejection)
  • In $7,401 debt ($5,000 of which is student loans taken out a decade ago)

Sound scary right? But I'm optimistic. I have excellent credit and having no substantial financial responsibilities means that I'm able to utilize 100% of my earnings towards success. I'm currently looking for entry level jobs that don't require prior experience. My target is $32k a year or greater, but realistically I'm expecting something in the $20k range. I want to make the right moves going forward, but I'm totally lost.

So, my question is: If you had to start over again from scratch—with a day job as your only source of income—but you are in a position to utilize 100% of your income towards success, what would your five year plan look like? Picture yourself in that situation and consider what's best for you. Is $32k too little? Are there better employment opportunities that I'm oblivious to? Should paying off the debt be my top priority? What is a solid strategy to use the money I earn? Keep in mind I'm a financial layman.

Thank you for reading, and for any advice you might have!

MDM

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Re: Starting over from scratch, seeking advice
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2018, 08:57:10 PM »
Do any of 50 Jobs over $50,000 – Without a Degree (Part 1) (or the ones in Part 2) seem appealing?

Max4

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Re: Starting over from scratch, seeking advice
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2018, 09:35:53 PM »
Thank you. I've actually already applied for multiple positions on that list; however, the average salaries in my state—according to Indeed—were below $50,000 (between $30k and $40k, which is where my $32k figure came from). The national averages were above $50k, however. So experience in any of those fields could net higher income with relocation.

Allie

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Re: Starting over from scratch, seeking advice
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2018, 10:13:21 PM »
So...

I get to start from scratch, no dependents, no responsibilities, limited debt, and I still have all the world and self knowledge I had acquired by age 32?  Oh my god!  What wouldn't I do? 

Sure, you are 15 or so years behind in terms of experience and wealth potential, but I'd venture to guess there are plenty of 32 year olds who would love a do over with the knowledge they have now (cause the choices they made at 20 aren't turning out how they thought) and/or they have nothing saved. 

Now is the time to figure out what would get you to where you want your life to look like and go for it. 

I'm past 32 and past thinking about a career, but if, at 32, you would have asked me what I would have wanted to do, I'd have been looking for a job at a hospital near a school that had nursing degrees.  I'd be looking for an employer who had educational assistance so I could go through the lpn -> rn -> (maybe) anp track with minimal outlay.  It would be something I think I would enjoy enough to do it for a number of years, would be a pretty good return on investment, it would open up opportunities in the future for part time work and/or travel once I had some fu money. 

So, is your goal to just make some cash, hit an ere number and head to Asia or Central America?  Do you have dreams of a career or volunteer?  Where do you want to live?  Sure, finding a job so you can eat is important, but beyond that, your five year plan can only be developed after you come up with some solid goals beyond basic survival!

If you provide your goals and dreams and desires for your future, I (and the collective mmm forum mind) can help you put together some plans.


Max4

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Re: Starting over from scratch, seeking advice
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2018, 12:00:50 AM »
Thanks Allie, that's encouraging. At this point, I don't have dreams of a career. Rather, I'm looking for a source of income to use as capital. My personal five-year goal was to get a decent job, save up and buy a residential property with the purpose of renting it out. Again, financial rookie here so I'm not sure if that's the best use of my income.

Ultimately, I'd like the financial flexibility to embark on new ventures without the current fear of total ruin. For example, I recently began translating Buddhist texts to English and self publishing the translations. My translations are also made freely available on my website, so this is more of a hobby than a career. However, I have no capital or viable platform to promote my translations. It would be nice to be able to afford promotional services to start building my name in the field, without committing financial suicide in the meantime (flashbacks of my internet venture).

There is a lot I'd like to do, but I have very little resources to work with in making my dreams a reality. So my five-year goals are all about creating the foundation that will produce those resources.

Linea_Norway

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Re: Starting over from scratch, seeking advice
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2018, 03:53:20 AM »
You could indeed look at jobs with on-the-job training, where you get your education paid for by your employer. Ideally the education should be short so that you can start earning a decent salary quickly.

Examples:
- nurse, as mentioned above
- train driver
- flight controller (I checked this one, but you're already a year too old to start...)

cap396

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Crunch

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Re: Starting over from scratch, seeking advice
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2018, 04:51:33 AM »
Enlist?  In the National Guard or some such part-time service.  Guaranteed income, mates and structure to daily life.

Investigate carefully before you do, to work out likelihood of overseas tours etc you may not wish to take.

yakamashii

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Re: Starting over from scratch, seeking advice
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2018, 05:14:24 AM »
For example, I recently began translating Buddhist texts to English and self publishing the translations. My translations are also made freely available on my website, so this is more of a hobby than a career. However, I have no capital or viable platform to promote my translations. It would be nice to be able to afford promotional services to start building my name in the field, without committing financial suicide in the meantime (flashbacks of my internet venture).

Translation requires very little overhead, and if you're good at it and in the right language pair, you can make a fine living. What's the source language?

chasesfish

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Re: Starting over from scratch, seeking advice
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2018, 05:36:04 AM »
What would I do if I got to start all over and didn't want a career...here's a lot of random thoughts:

- I think you start by showing in person at every property management firm and drop off your resume and offer to work their front desk.  I would desperately want some income/experience on managing tenants.  Working with their "maintenence person" would teach you a lot of basic home maintenance. 

- I'd then sign up for task-rabbit, instacart, rover to pickup some income.   Signup for NextDoor too, even if its more like twitter for old people.

- If I tolerated the property management, I'd get my real estate license and start researching rental property.  I'd also start wholesaling properties and figure out the investor network of buyers.  Hustling finds the deal, capital closes the deal.  You can have hustle, but you don't have capital.

Just my idea, since you said you had an interest in rental property.

snogirl

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Re: Starting over from scratch, seeking advice
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2018, 06:49:50 AM »
If I had a do over I wouldn't change much because my life, through all it's ups & downs ie divorce, mega debt, has turned out great. I'm fire'd now. There are lots of hustles and money to be made but there's no free lunch. That's probably my greatest discovery of walking this earth for 58 years. My dad pointed to the sidewalk at 18 and said get a job. If the career thing is not your way then there is money in free stuff. I turn good coin for fun from the overspending and gluttony of America good luck.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk


begood

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Re: Starting over from scratch, seeking advice
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2018, 07:23:10 AM »
Your net worth isn't $0. It's -$7401. So here's my advice:

1. Your first task is to climb out of the debt hole. The view will be different from there - the air cleaner, the ground more solid. You describe yourself as the "heir" to the debt - was it someone else's responsibility initially? Or have you distanced yourself from it mentally? In your shoes, I'd forget investment properties and a five-year plan, and I'd start thinking, "How can I pay off this debt in the next twelve months. If I pay $616.75 a month toward the debt, it would be gone in June 2019."

2. Your parents are providing you with a tremendous service - I hope you appreciate that, and show that appreciation. Even if they love having you around, I promise you returning to the nest has changed the trajectory of their lives at this age and stage. Are they paying for your cell phone? Your car insurance? Gas? It's time to get ANY job that pays at least $10K a year. That would cover your debt repayment, taxes, and give you choices in taking some financial responsibility from your parents back to yourself. If you're paying for all those things already somehow, then pay some rent to your folks, or ask for the store list and do the grocery shopping.

3. You've got a strong net beneath you, but instead of using it to bounce higher (five-year plan, buying rental properties), I encourage you to start smaller: Get a job - it almost doesn't matter doing what. If you have to get up and go to it five days a week, and they pay you, go for it. Pay off your debt, then build an emergency fund.

4. It sounds like your failed business venture has left you skittish and maybe a little unmotivated? That's why I recommend the "any job is better than no job" route. Get back out there. Getting that first paycheck will feel great, and so will paying off your debt.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2018, 08:24:09 AM by begood »

TheWifeHalf

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Re: Starting over from scratch, seeking advice
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2018, 09:08:13 AM »
try and make it in the world of internet tech. I started a company which—at it's height—earned me about 2k a month,
Thank you for reading, and for any advice you might have!

Would you consider yourself able to work at an entry position of internet tech?

My son works at a hospital in their IT dept, and says they do hire very low level workers. My daughter works at a different hospital that pays her tuition in a hospital related field (pharmacy)

Max4

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Re: Starting over from scratch, seeking advice
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2018, 11:46:33 AM »
Thanks everyone, for your advice! I really do appreciate every morsel of insight.

You could indeed look at jobs with on-the-job training, where you get your education paid for by your employer. Ideally the education should be short so that you can start earning a decent salary quickly.

Examples:
- nurse, as mentioned above
- train driver
- flight controller (I checked this one, but you're already a year too old to start...)

Yes, I'm currently applying for apprenticeship and trainee positions. Have to start somewhere!

I came across this article today:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/28/truck-driver-shortage-higher-shipping-costs-amazon-retail.html

I am aware about this, however, I don't have a CDL A. I also don't know how to drive manual transmission vehicles so I'd likely have to go to trucking school (which is $7,000 usd where I live).

Enlist?  In the National Guard or some such part-time service.  Guaranteed income, mates and structure to daily life.

Investigate carefully before you do, to work out likelihood of overseas tours etc you may not wish to take.

I'd have to apply with conscientious objector status. I'm the guy who carefully holds spiders and centipedes so I don't harm them while taking them outside. If there are positions which do not lead to the harm of living beings, it could be an option for me.

Translation requires very little overhead, and if you're good at it and in the right language pair, you can make a fine living. What's the source language?

The source language is Pali, which is a dead language spoken by the Buddha. It's mostly useful in monastic circles, and monks abstain from the use of money. Perhaps there are academic applications but these positions would probably be rare and require additional qualifications.

What would I do if I got to start all over and didn't want a career...here's a lot of random thoughts:

- I think you start by showing in person at every property management firm and drop off your resume and offer to work their front desk.  I would desperately want some income/experience on managing tenants.  Working with their "maintenence person" would teach you a lot of basic home maintenance. 

- I'd then sign up for task-rabbit, instacart, rover to pickup some income.   Signup for NextDoor too, even if its more like twitter for old people.

- If I tolerated the property management, I'd get my real estate license and start researching rental property.  I'd also start wholesaling properties and figure out the investor network of buyers.  Hustling finds the deal, capital closes the deal.  You can have hustle, but you don't have capital.

Just my idea, since you said you had an interest in rental property.


Signing up for some on-the-side freelance work is a good idea. Currently looking for jobs in the field, so with a little luck (to land a job with no experience) and on-the-job experience, this could very well be a viable option for additional income. I can definitely hustle, but it's all bark with no bite when there is no capital to back it up.

If I had a do over I wouldn't change much because my life, through all it's ups & downs ie divorce, mega debt, has turned out great. I'm fire'd now. There are lots of hustles and money to be made but there's no free lunch. That's probably my greatest discovery of walking this earth for 58 years. My dad pointed to the sidewalk at 18 and said get a job. If the career thing is not your way then there is money in free stuff. I turn good coin for fun from the overspending and gluttony of America good luck.

Indeed. No matter how carefully you plan, the world around you is not ideal and there are many variables to contend with. What are some options for turning a coin from the overspending and gluttony of America?

Your net worth isn't $0. It's -$7401. So here's my advice:

1. Your first task is to climb out of the debt hole. The view will be different from there - the air cleaner, the ground more solid. You describe yourself as the "heir" to the debt - was it someone else's responsibility initially? Or have you distanced yourself from it mentally? In your shoes, I'd forget investment properties and a five-year plan, and I'd start thinking, "How can I pay off this debt in the next twelve months. If I pay $616.75 a month toward the debt, it would be gone in June 2019."

2. Your parents are providing you with a tremendous service - I hope you appreciate that, and show that appreciation. Even if they love having you around, I promise you returning to the nest has changed the trajectory of their lives at this age and stage. Are they paying for your cell phone? Your car insurance? Gas? It's time to get ANY job that pays at least $10K a year. That would cover your debt repayment, taxes, and give you choices in taking some financial responsibility from your parents back to yourself. If you're paying for all those things already somehow, then pay some rent to your folks, or ask for the store list and do the grocery shopping.

3. You've got a strong net beneath you, but instead of using it to bounce higher (five-year plan, buying rental properties), I encourage you to start smaller: Get a job - it almost doesn't matter doing what. If you have to get up and go to it five days a week, and they pay you, go for it. Pay off your debt, then build an emergency fund.

4. It sounds like your failed business venture has left you skittish and maybe a little unmotivated? That's why I recommend the "any job is better than no job" route. Get back out there. Getting that first paycheck will feel great, and so will paying off your debt.

1) This is within my five-year plan. My initial idea was to use my entire paycheck each month towards paying off the debt.

2) One should never take the compassion and generosity of others for granted. Likewise, one should aim to lead a life of compassion and generosity.

3) What does an emergency fund look like? What are some things to keep in mind when building an emergency fund?

4) I'm very motivated and ready to go; though definitely skittish about anything that doesn't provide a steady income stream. This is why I'm starting over with the day job route.

Would you consider yourself able to work at an entry position of internet tech?

My son works at a hospital in their IT dept, and says they do hire very low level workers. My daughter works at a different hospital that pays her tuition in a hospital related field (pharmacy)

My skill set is in programming. We're talking windows software, websites, computer games; if it uses computer language, I can do it. Though I'll admit, I'm burnt out by this. I was programming 12 - 16 hours a day on my own software for years. I really need a change of pace.




The common response seems to be centered around getting a job. That's great, because I'm already on track there. For someone with no resources to work with, income from labor / service is a reliable source of capital. I'm still curious about how I could make that capital work for me.

Let's approach it differently:

If—in your current life—someone gave you 2,000 dollars a month freely and you could do whatever you wanted with it; how would you use that money?

Assume your debts are paid off.

Padonak

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Re: Starting over from scratch, seeking advice
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2018, 12:05:50 PM »
Having the intelligence to learn how to code is a gift. Use it.

snogirl

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Re: Starting over from scratch, seeking advice
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2018, 12:18:43 PM »
Thanks everyone, for your advice! I really do appreciate every morsel of insight.

You could indeed look at jobs with on-the-job training, where you get your education paid for by your employer. Ideally the education should be short so that you can start earning a decent salary quickly.

Examples:
- nurse, as mentioned above
- train driver
- flight controller (I checked this one, but you're already a year too old to start...)

Yes, I'm currently applying for apprenticeship and trainee positions. Have to start somewhere!

I came across this article today:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/28/truck-driver-shortage-higher-shipping-costs-amazon-retail.html

I am aware about this, however, I don't have a CDL A. I also don't know how to drive manual transmission vehicles so I'd likely have to go to trucking school (which is $7,000 usd where I live).

Enlist?  In the National Guard or some such part-time service.  Guaranteed income, mates and structure to daily life.

Investigate carefully before you do, to work out likelihood of overseas tours etc you may not wish to take.

I'd have to apply with conscientious objector status. I'm the guy who carefully holds spiders and centipedes so I don't harm them while taking them outside. If there are positions which do not lead to the harm of living beings, it could be an option for me.

Translation requires very little overhead, and if you're good at it and in the right language pair, you can make a fine living. What's the source language?

The source language is Pali, which is a dead language spoken by the Buddha. It's mostly useful in monastic circles, and monks abstain from the use of money. Perhaps there are academic applications but these positions would probably be rare and require additional qualifications.

What would I do if I got to start all over and didn't want a career...here's a lot of random thoughts:

- I think you start by showing in person at every property management firm and drop off your resume and offer to work their front desk.  I would desperately want some income/experience on managing tenants.  Working with their "maintenence person" would teach you a lot of basic home maintenance. 

- I'd then sign up for task-rabbit, instacart, rover to pickup some income.   Signup for NextDoor too, even if its more like twitter for old people.

- If I tolerated the property management, I'd get my real estate license and start researching rental property.  I'd also start wholesaling properties and figure out the investor network of buyers.  Hustling finds the deal, capital closes the deal.  You can have hustle, but you don't have capital.

Just my idea, since you said you had an interest in rental property.


Signing up for some on-the-side freelance work is a good idea. Currently looking for jobs in the field, so with a little luck (to land a job with no experience) and on-the-job experience, this could very well be a viable option for additional income. I can definitely hustle, but it's all bark with no bite when there is no capital to back it up.

If I had a do over I wouldn't change much because my life, through all it's ups & downs ie divorce, mega debt, has turned out great. I'm fire'd now. There are lots of hustles and money to be made but there's no free lunch. That's probably my greatest discovery of walking this earth for 58 years. My dad pointed to the sidewalk at 18 and said get a job. If the career thing is not your way then there is money in free stuff. I turn good coin for fun from the overspending and gluttony of America good luck.

Indeed. No matter how carefully you plan, the world around you is not ideal and there are many variables to contend with. What are some options for turning a coin from the overspending and gluttony of America?

Your net worth isn't $0. It's -$7401. So here's my advice:

1. Your first task is to climb out of the debt hole. The view will be different from there - the air cleaner, the ground more solid. You describe yourself as the "heir" to the debt - was it someone else's responsibility initially? Or have you distanced yourself from it mentally? In your shoes, I'd forget investment properties and a five-year plan, and I'd start thinking, "How can I pay off this debt in the next twelve months. If I pay $616.75 a month toward the debt, it would be gone in June 2019."

2. Your parents are providing you with a tremendous service - I hope you appreciate that, and show that appreciation. Even if they love having you around, I promise you returning to the nest has changed the trajectory of their lives at this age and stage. Are they paying for your cell phone? Your car insurance? Gas? It's time to get ANY job that pays at least $10K a year. That would cover your debt repayment, taxes, and give you choices in taking some financial responsibility from your parents back to yourself. If you're paying for all those things already somehow, then pay some rent to your folks, or ask for the store list and do the grocery shopping.

3. You've got a strong net beneath you, but instead of using it to bounce higher (five-year plan, buying rental properties), I encourage you to start smaller: Get a job - it almost doesn't matter doing what. If you have to get up and go to it five days a week, and they pay you, go for it. Pay off your debt, then build an emergency fund.

4. It sounds like your failed business venture has left you skittish and maybe a little unmotivated? That's why I recommend the "any job is better than no job" route. Get back out there. Getting that first paycheck will feel great, and so will paying off your debt.

1) This is within my five-year plan. My initial idea was to use my entire paycheck each month towards paying off the debt.

2) One should never take the compassion and generosity of others for granted. Likewise, one should aim to lead a life of compassion and generosity.

3) What does an emergency fund look like? What are some things to keep in mind when building an emergency fund?

4) I'm very motivated and ready to go; though definitely skittish about anything that doesn't provide a steady income stream. This is why I'm starting over with the day job route.

Would you consider yourself able to work at an entry position of internet tech?

My son works at a hospital in their IT dept, and says they do hire very low level workers. My daughter works at a different hospital that pays her tuition in a hospital related field (pharmacy)

My skill set is in programming. We're talking windows software, websites, computer games; if it uses computer language, I can do it. Though I'll admit, I'm burnt out by this. I was programming 12 - 16 hours a day on my own software for years. I really need a change of pace.




The common response seems to be centered around getting a job. That's great, because I'm already on track there. For someone with no resources to work with, income from labor / service is a reliable source of capital. I'm still curious about how I could make that capital work for me.

Let's approach it differently:

If—in your current life—someone gave you 2,000 dollars a month freely and you could do whatever you wanted with it; how would you use that money?

Assume your debts are paid off.
I used to actively look at curb alerts, free piles, college campuses after student move out of student housing, the dump, yard sales for FREE money. I can't tell you how much I'd make on things people throw away! I took a lawn tractor that was pristine that needed a starter $50 bucks off eBay sold $700. Those Thule safari baskets bike racks and load bars - $50 and $100 dollar bills. Free Dressers....some paint $100-400 dollars. I bought a cheap trailer & offer to clean garages out people pay you 1st to take their stuff away than you resell what is worth it cha-ching.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk


Max4

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Re: Starting over from scratch, seeking advice
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2018, 06:34:58 PM »
Having the intelligence to learn how to code is a gift. Use it.

Perhaps I will make use of those skills again in the future.

I used to actively look at curb alerts, free piles, college campuses after student move out of student housing, the dump, yard sales for FREE money. I can't tell you how much I'd make on things people throw away! I took a lawn tractor that was pristine that needed a starter $50 bucks off eBay sold $700. Those Thule safari baskets bike racks and load bars - $50 and $100 dollar bills. Free Dressers....some paint $100-400 dollars. I bought a cheap trailer & offer to clean garages out people pay you 1st to take their stuff away than you resell what is worth it cha-ching.

I hadn't considered this. Very clever, thanks for sharing!

austin944

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Re: Starting over from scratch, seeking advice
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2018, 09:56:35 AM »

If—in your current life—someone gave you 2,000 dollars a month freely and you could do whatever you wanted with it; how would you use that money?

Assume your debts are paid off.

If I had just a high school degree, I would go back to school, and either get an associate or bachelor's degree.  The degree will not only open up more career opportunities for you, it will demonstrate to potential employers that you are capable of finishing a fairly demanding long-term task, and give you a boost in your self-esteem, confidence, and work ethic.  With your computer background, you might be able to get a part-time job at your school in a computer lab or something of that nature.

I went back to school to get a graduate degree after working a few years, and it was a very hard life, but it was the best decision I made in my life.  I worked part-time as a teaching assistant making about 6K/yr, and the University gave me a break on my tuition for being a TA.  It eventually led to the possibility of ER.  You may be able to swing something similar, working for them and get a break on tuition.

« Last Edit: June 01, 2018, 09:58:37 AM by austin944 »

wordnerd

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Re: Starting over from scratch, seeking advice
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2018, 10:30:56 AM »
Beyond making small amounts of money (which you seem quite capable of doing), it sounds to me like you are looking for a goal. In your hypothetical scenario of $2k/mo, I would write and hang out with my kids, which is my FIRE plan. If I could choose a different career, I'd likely go into teaching (and may still, though being a classroom teacher sounds kinda awful in some ways). But this is likely little help to you.

So what do you like to do? Seems like you like translating and have an interest in Buddhism (or may be practicing). I know someone who lived in Thailand for years as a monk. Does that appeal to you? Do you want to do more translations (try upwork; there might be more demand than you think)? Do you want to write about the texts you're translating (try starting a blog or publishing an ebook)? Sounds like you a pacificist and socially conscious; does activism of any sort appeal to you (you could also look at campaign jobs for the 2018 midterms)?

If you don't have a bachelor's, I'd recommend getting one as cheaply as possible (ASU online can be a good option if you don't have a good local option), as it will open up a lot options. But that's a means to an end, not the end itself.