Author Topic: My current situation and my current plan.  (Read 8171 times)

Moiser

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My current situation and my current plan.
« on: January 17, 2017, 02:53:57 AM »

I currently work a 28 rotation overseas. I work for 28 days, then get 28 days off shift. I've been "homeless" for the last four years, working overseas and traveling during my leave. During the time I've been overseas I've paid of my mortgage and spent a reasonable amount of money working my way through my "bucket list".

Although my career has provided me with a great lifestyle thus far, it's not something I want to do forever... that's something I always knew, but what I didn't realise is just how strong my position is in terms of securing my financial future.

Here's the basic rundown of my financial situation:

I currently take home just over 100,000GBP a year.
I have started to save 80% of my wages, the rest is spent on traveling during my time off.
I have one property (paid for) that is also rented out, earning me around 6,000GBP a year.
I currently around 30,000GBP in savings.
I currently have no debt.

So, the plan, or the goal...

Is to be able to walk away from my job in the next 5 - 7 years... and hopefully not have to work. The current plan is to do this with rental properties and an long term index fund (around 50,000GBP).

Any advice, criticism, thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Villanelle

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Re: My current situation and my current plan.
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2017, 03:10:20 AM »
we are going to need a lot more info in order to be able to give much meaningful feedback.

It seems you are currently spending 26k GBP per year.  What do you anticipate your annual spend to be once you retire?  Will you continue your largely nomadic lifestyle and keep expenses roughly the same? How sure are you that you'll be able to stay at that 26k budget, since it seems like you've been spending much more than that until recently (since you only have 30k in savings but you've been doing this job for 4 years).

Moiser

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Re: My current situation and my current plan.
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2017, 04:27:55 AM »
Hey Villanelle, thanks for the reply.

I've budgeted around 20k GBP a year to allow me to continue travelling, which should be more than enough... even with some of my more expensive hobbies.

I'll admit I've spent some of my earnings on experiences over the last four years, but I've also paid off my mortgage.  I haven't made any decisions yet on what kind of money I'll need to retire... but I'll probably travel extensively for a time. As a rough estimate I would say around 20K GBP a year.

dreams_and_discoveries

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Re: My current situation and my current plan.
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2017, 04:37:33 AM »
Sounds like a fabulous plan, have to admit I'm envious of your lifestyle.

If you can knuckle down and save 80% consistently, you'll easily be able to leave the job in 7 years  - do you track your spending?  What would you do if you no longer had to work for income?

Moiser

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Re: My current situation and my current plan.
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2017, 05:13:11 AM »
Hi dreams_and_discoveries.

It's a mixed bag, being locked away for half the year hasn't done much for my personal life... but for me at least, the positives outweigh the negatives.

I've promised myself that as soon as I am out I am going to complete at least one long distance trailing in the US, before heading out for some serious back packing on a shoe string. Long term, I would look to get involved in the adventure tourism industry, potentially my own little adventure travel company.

Over the last couple of years, I've kept one eye on my spending. I'm not particularly materialistic, but if there was a trip I really wanted to do, I would spend the money. Since finding this place I've started to look a little closer, I don't currently track everything I spend. I usually have a set amount for my time off shift and come up with a daily budget.

2017 is my last year for big ticket activities every trip, and all my 2017 have been paid for, so I believe I can make more cuts to my spending year on year.

soccerluvof4

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Re: My current situation and my current plan.
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2017, 10:31:32 AM »
On paper it works BUT would like to see more of a plan and have more info

Moiser

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Re: My current situation and my current plan.
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2017, 08:29:07 PM »

I'm more concerned about making the right moves before I get out of the industry, if needs be I can take part time work to supplement the passive income from the rental properties.

I'd love to know whether anyone would suggest another method of investing the cash.

JAYSLOL

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Re: My current situation and my current plan.
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2017, 09:12:09 PM »
Looks like you are doing pretty well, as for the plan its hard to say without more details about the rentals and projected costs, income etc.  $50k in index funds is a start, but isnt a lot of liquidity for FIRE, at least in my opinion, though everyon is different.  Rental income is great, and i hope to get a rental or 2 for myself, but im more the type to keep at least 50% of net worth in liquid investments.

Moiser

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Re: My current situation and my current plan.
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2017, 09:36:25 PM »
Projected costs are going to be tough to accurately predict, but the average UK salary is 28K a year.

The yield on my currently property is around 5% net.

If I cherry picked the right portfolio I should be able to pull in 18K - 20K a year with three rentals. The cost of the properties would likely be between 100K - 120K.

I estimate that I will at least save the following;

400K in five years
560K in seven years

Moiser

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Re: My current situation and my current plan.
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2017, 10:03:05 PM »
I do need to figure out how to divvy up my savings as they come in.

Do I aim for a second rental property before starting an index fund?

I am currently planning to make additional deposits of 20k a year into my index fund. Although this would probably push my fourth rental property into year six.

JAYSLOL

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Re: My current situation and my current plan.
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2017, 11:31:16 PM »
I do need to figure out how to divvy up my savings as they come in.


Yes, this is true.  Figuring out a plan for your asset allocation that is going to work best for you and sticking to it is key

Moiser

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Re: My current situation and my current plan.
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2017, 11:16:47 PM »
Wanted to share my progress with you.

I still have some work to do regarding investment of my funds from now till the purchase of my second rental property. Also planning to take dreams_and_discoveries advice and start tracking the spending of my 20% play money moving forward.

I'm also going to start looking into getting some form of side hustle going.

The independent financial advisor I was talking with hasn't been in touch since the new year, still waiting on a reply from him. Going to cut him loose and find an alternative.

This trip off work came in on budget, but I can think of a couple of instances where I could have cut spending and saved some of my 20% play money.


Moiser

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Re: My current situation and my current plan.
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2017, 01:49:54 AM »
Hey!

Here's another couple of updates...

Savings are now at £57K, and I'm £3K ahead of where I predicted I would be.

I'm managing to stick within the budget of an 80/20 split.

I've started to seek out financial advise, but it's awkward as most IFA's in the UK won't deal with me until I've met them in person. I've also started to look at property options that may have the potential to bring in a better return than a standard rental property.

I also have some serious learning to do regarding UK law on the costs associated with additional properties and whether I'd be better off financially with a mortgage or saving till I have the cash to buy outright. There are also some potential complications with mortgages as I am currently not living in the UK, apparently these problems would fall away if my parents guaranteed the mortgage, but I am not sure I want to pull my parents into this, in case things went south.

Any thoughts appreciated! x





Moiser

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Re: My current situation and my current plan.
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2017, 05:51:16 AM »
Again wanted to post a quick update with you all...

An update that wasn't an excel file, I should have thought a little more about that.

I'm still managing to maintain the traveling lifestyle and maintain a savings rate of 80%.

I've found property number two, but the guy who currently owns it isn't looking to sell till early next year. I have to decide whether to throw all my money at the property or split my funds and look to purchase two properties at the same time.

Any thoughts or advice appreciated.

Moiser

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Re: My current situation and my current plan.
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2017, 06:15:06 AM »
OR...


Here's my numbers, but you won't see the pretty graph I spent hours making.


   Date           Est. Deposit   Est. Balance   Actual Deposit   Actual Balance
   Dec-16   £6,278.28           £22,294.64   £6,278.28           £22,294.64
   Jan-17   £7,031.67           £29,326.31   £7,031.67           £29,326.31
   Feb-17   £8,800.00           £38,126.31   £9,064.86           £38,703.57
   Mar-17   £3,960.00           £42,086.31   £4,231.84           £42,935.68
   Apr-17   £10,120.00       £52,206.31   £10,498.33   £54,070.86
   May-17   £2,640.00           £54,846.31   £3,008.76           £57,079.62
   Jun-17   £12,320.00   £67,166.31   £12,489.72   £69,971.20

Current net worth is roughly £200,000.


Beach_Stache

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Re: My current situation and my current plan.
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2017, 06:26:46 AM »
Moiser, it sounds like you've got a good plan of your future, and your savings rate is great!  Sounds like you are used to traveling on a shoe-string budget which is another great thing, and you have your side-hussle figured out if you want to work in an adventure travel business or own your own company.  If you have 1 rental paid off and are working on purchasing another, if you take your excess savings and put it in a low-cost index fund that can supplement your income then you'll be in great shape.  Do you think once you quit your job that working for an adventure company would pay the bills?  Or would you need to tap your rental income and investment income to get by?  If you can live cheaply and be able to work as an adventure guide and be able to live off of that, then why wouldn't you just retire now? 

I think doing some more research into what your expenses are and what you could make in your adventure job is key.  If you are talking to financial advisors I would make sure you get with someone who charges an hourly rate, and won't just try to take your money (or a % of your money).  If you are working with someone who charges by the hour and is a fiduciary then they should have your best interests in mind.  Best of luck!

Moiser

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Re: My current situation and my current plan.
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2017, 07:00:36 AM »
Hey Beach_Stache,

Thank you for the reply.

I still need to do some more research on Index funds in the UK, Vanguard requires a min investment of £100K. I definitely want to get some cash into and an index fund as a long term investment at some point.

Do you think once you quit your job that working for an adventure company would pay the bills? 

The adventure company idea is something I am still very interested in,  a good friend of mine runs a similar company. Similar enough for me to take his advice seriously. He makes a decent living, but he works for it. His overheads are/would be a lot higher than what I have in mind. He's told me several times to proceed with caution, and has given me a lot to think about.

Would you need to tap your rental income and investment income to get by?

Ideally I'd like to be in a position where I wouldn't have to worry if my adventure company fell flat on it's face. I don't particularly want to have to rely on it as an income stream, more a hobby (three or four expeditions a year) that made a small profit. However, in order to fill three or four expeditions a year, I need customers... that's going to be the challenge.

If you can live cheaply and be able to work as an adventure guide and be able to live off of that, then why wouldn't you just retire now? 

I feel I should make the most of the money I am currently earning and the situation I'm in. When I put the "plan" together, I thought the money I'm expected to earn between 5-7 years would be enough to set me up comfortably for FI. I don't particularly enjoy my job, I have no fire for it, but I don't hate it, and having six months off a year is amazing, and what I hope is a taste of my future.


Thanks for the advice regarding the advisor, he didn't seem particularly keen when I mentioned index funds.

Moiser

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Re: My current situation and my current plan.
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2017, 05:50:42 AM »
Hey guys,

Here's another update...

Date          Est. Deposit.    Est. Balance   Act.  Deposit   Act Balance      Diff.         Inc. Diff.
Jul-17        440.00            67,606.31      505.70           70,897.22        3290.91   486.02
Aug-17      12,760.00        80,366.31      13,099.55      83,997.30        3630.99   340.08


I'm also in the process of purchasing a second rental property before buying the property I mentioned in my last post early in 2018.

Moiser

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Re: My current situation and my current plan.
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2020, 10:55:13 PM »
Thought I'd better post an update, it's well overdue.

I am still saving 80% of my salary and I'm currently up to 4 rentals. I could have been in a slightly better position, I took a risk on crypto that didn't pay off. I'm finally starting to dig into how I'm spending the remaining 20% of my income.

My spreadsheet has helped me stay focused, but it's pretty scary to think that I've spent more than a year on the platform since my last post. I wasn't particularly enjoying the job back in 2017 and I can't say that things have improved. However, I don't think I will ever be in a situation where I can save this kind of money again, so I am going to stick it out for as long as I can/till I meet my targets.

Here's some numbers:

Gross rental income from my rentals for 2019 was £22,557.48 with a net of £8,328.86.
Predicted gross rental income for 2020 is £31,200.

Previous rental income numbers are a little skewed because I was paying the mortgages out of my 20% of my salary.

Net savings for 2017 - £89,805.99
Net savings for 2018 - £93,592.65
Net savings for 2019 - £92,694.58

My net worth comes out at just over £410K.
Total debt is £306,914.52

Any comments/advice appreciated.

auntie_betty

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Re: My current situation and my current plan.
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2020, 12:02:13 AM »
If you're in the UK with four rentals and expecting gross rent of 31k I'm guessing your properties are in a fairly cheap, working class area? How is Brexit likely to affect you?

We have similar rental income (bit less actually) from four properties and I'm concerned if it all goes t**s up next year (which I really think it could) the rental demand will suffer. We have one property let to a Polish couple working in distribution - any delays to deliveries their jobs will go and they will leave. Multiply that across the area and suddenly lots of houses with no tenants, rents pushed downwards and prices collapsing. One other UK tenant reliant on distribution industry also. Two properties let by friends also affected.

It shows the vulnerability of having all your eggs in one basket.

Also - your numbers don't seem to stack up, a few years ago you said your net worth was 200k but now it's only just over 100k?

Moiser

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Re: My current situation and my current plan.
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2020, 12:24:58 AM »
Quote
If you're in the UK with four rentals and expecting gross rent of 31k I'm guessing your properties are in a fairly cheap, working class area? How is Brexit likely to affect you?

Pretty much spot on, most of my properties are small, outside of the town and lay in the catchment for the area's best school. I am not overly concerned about Brexit, but admittedly, this could be blissful ignorance.

I am also planning on either purchasing a 5th rental (as per my original plan) or paying off one of the rentals early in (2020).

Quote
Also - your numbers don't seem to stack up, a few years ago you said your net worth was 200k but now it's only just over 100k?

I think you might have taken my net savings for each year as my net worth? My net worth comes out at just over £410K.

JGS1980

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Re: My current situation and my current plan.
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2020, 08:32:19 AM »
I see an overeliance in real estate here. Also, ALL the real estate is just in one location. So this will either succeed spectacularly or fail spectacularly depending on the prospects of that community.

I would keep your rentals right now, but diversify any additional investments to index funds, market weighted to total world market.

Best of luck.

JGS

Villanelle

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Re: My current situation and my current plan.
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2020, 12:51:34 PM »
I see an overeliance in real estate here. Also, ALL the real estate is just in one location. So this will either succeed spectacularly or fail spectacularly depending on the prospects of that community.

I would keep your rentals right now, but diversify any additional investments to index funds, market weighted to total world market.

Best of luck.

JGS

I agree.

This is akin to putting 3/4 of your money into Apple (or crypto).  If it succeeds, you could end up very wealthy, or medium wealthy.  But all it takes is that one thing to tank and you are hit incredibly hard, or even wiped out.

You are missing diversification.  Personally, I'd likely sell the least well performing one and put that money into mutual funds. 

Moiser

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Re: My current situation and my current plan.
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2020, 09:36:26 PM »
Thanks to all of you for your input, I'll chew on it for a little while.

I've wanted to get some money into an index fund since finding the website and reading the associated blog posts, but from what I can remember the price of admission into Vanguard in the UK was a £100K minimum investment.

While I still have the salary coming in, I feel I can diversify pretty quickly.

I'll do some more reading, reading is always good.

auntie_betty

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Re: My current situation and my current plan.
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2020, 02:16:36 PM »
Thanks for clarification re net worth. Nice one :)

Not sure where you read about 100k investment with Vanguard? Have a read on here:
https://www.vanguardinvestor.co.uk/investing-explained/general-investment-account. £500 lump sum or £100 month minimum.

Moiser

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Re: My current situation and my current plan.
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2020, 08:01:15 PM »
Thanks auntie_betty,

Things have definitely changed since the last time I looked!

Moiser

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Re: My current situation and my current plan.
« Reply #26 on: July 08, 2020, 12:26:32 AM »
Thought I would post a quick update.

What a shit show this year is turning out to be... I've been stuck at work since March and there's some potential I will still be at work into September. I am just keeping my head down and taking each day as it comes. Being stuck at work has worked out in one respect, I've managed to save £65K in the first six months.

I want to run something by you beautiful people...

I am considering calling it a day at the end of the year, and a general overview of my situation will be: 
  • Four rentals, three paid off.
  • £130K in mortgage debt on the final property.
  • Passive net income of just under £2000 PCM.
  • Networth of around £500K
  • Around £20K of play money in the bank.
  • Nowhere to live.
  • Single, 35, looks and personality of a potato.
I didn't take the advise about diversification lightly, but I have always been debt averse and if I am going to walk away from the job, I would feel more comfortable lowering my debt. I would take that £20K and travel for as long as I could get away with. My mindset is that, while I might not be able to completely retire, it greatly increases my options.

Maybe I'll feel differently about it at the end of the year, my position is only going to get stronger.

Any comments appreciated.
M

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: My current situation and my current plan.
« Reply #27 on: July 08, 2020, 01:19:14 AM »
That is a lot of time to be stuck at work! Hope you are taking care of yourself.

The key thing is how much your spending will be and how reliable the income stream is. If you can spend £20k for the year then the spending side looks good if the income stays steady; however if the £20k previous spending for six months (and working six months) translates to £40k per year then you will run out of cash.

I'd be terrified relying on only rental income in one area with Covid and Brexit still bubbling, but you know your properties and tenants better. The £2k per month is net of mortgage and net of tax right?

If you are confident on your costs and reliability of the cash flow from the properties then it looks good. Personally, I'd keep working during Covid until the world was properly open for travel again and then go travel. Right now you could easily get stranded by a second wave of Covid and have to buy an expensive flight out or stay in expensive accommodation during a quarantine. Anything I saved before then I'd split between a cash buffer and investments so I had something in addition to the properties.

If you want to invest some money use this page to find a broker and this page to find a world tracker for these reasons. There will be things to check out as you aren't a UK resident before you open an account.

Would it make sense for you to hold some cash in another currency? Transferwise allows you to have a bank account in multiple currencies (check eligibility for your residence and tax position). You could hold some cash in Euro and Dollars so you aren't cannibalising your GBP account if the pound does badly for a time. 

Paper Chaser

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Re: My current situation and my current plan.
« Reply #28 on: July 08, 2020, 06:55:28 AM »
Is your 500k net worth all sitting in real estate equity? A bank? Investment account? Ultimately, net worth is just a summation of your assets that's not overly helpful for retirement math. What you really need to concern yourself with is the income that those assets can provide to you after retirement in the form of rent and/or passive income from investments and/or liquidating those assets.

Retirement math is simple. You need enough money coming in to cover your expenses. That's it.

On the income side of the ledger I see 20k savings + passive income of 2000/ PCM (unfamiliar with this acronym) but I see nothing concrete about expenses so... I think you've got to get that figured out a little better.

Moiser

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Re: My current situation and my current plan.
« Reply #29 on: July 08, 2020, 07:20:07 AM »
I'm doing OK, good days and bad days...

The £2k per month is net of mortgage and net of tax right?
That's correct.

I know I've been blowing through £20k every six months for the last couple of years, but I can assure you there's a lot of fat on those six months. I think I would take the £20K play money and travel on a shoestring, I think I could make it last well over a year. I agree with you in regards to sticking out till Covid is "over" and I know I being overly optimistic by thinking I can run off early next year.

I am aware that my thoughts are being influenced by my current situation. Maybe I just need a little time off to realign myself, my original target date was Jan-24. Granted I would be in a much stronger position if I continued till then, but I think I could make a decent go of it with what I have.

Is your 500k net worth all sitting in real estate equity? A bank? Investment account?

Most of it is tied up in equity.

PCM (unfamiliar with this acronym)
Per Calendar Month.


Thank you both for your input, I'll sleep on and get back to you.

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: My current situation and my current plan.
« Reply #30 on: July 08, 2020, 01:10:56 PM »
I know I've been blowing through £20k every six months for the last couple of years, but I can assure you there's a lot of fat on those six months. I think I would take the £20K play money and travel on a shoestring, I think I could make it last well over a year.

Great, as long as you have a plan to trim, this sounds really believable - a lot of the cost of travel is getting there and back, so slower travel, longer stays, more supermarkets and fewer paid "experiences" can easily cut these costs in half if you are willing to make the changes. I find that travel is far cheaper when my dates are flexible and I'm not trying to cram experience into a couple of weeks.

Is your work something you could go back to after a year or two out to travel if necessary? If so, it sounds like you are set to take time out as soon as the world opens up again.

Moiser

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Re: My current situation and my current plan.
« Reply #31 on: July 10, 2020, 07:16:48 AM »
OK... so I've come to the following conclusion.

I can't make any decisions right now.

I can't see the woods from the trees, and that's not likely to change till I get some time off to unwind. However, I should also continue to take the opportunity to increase my savings while I have the opportunity to do so, assuming my mental health remains above board.

Carry on, nothing to see here, thanks again for your input.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: My current situation and my current plan.
« Reply #32 on: July 10, 2020, 04:12:22 PM »
Give yourself that break. I recently forced myself to have 2 weeks of no work and no stress, it all got too heavy. Best thing Iíve done. I feel renewed. The other piece of advice is, you have a plan so keep with it. Youíre still quite young and you have the means to set yourself up incredibly well with little room for error. And then youíll need to work out what youíre going to do with your life when youíre not working anymore?

Moiser

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Re: My current situation and my current plan.
« Reply #33 on: June 08, 2021, 01:52:56 AM »
Time for a quick update.

Still in the job and continuing with the 80% savings. I'm of the mindset that I'll stick with it for time being. Last year I ended up working through till November, but you can see the bump from year on year savings.

Net savings for 2018 - £93,592.65
Net savings for 2019 - £92,694.58
Net savings for 2020 - £135,409.66

My net worth comes out at just over £570k
Total debt is £306,914.52

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: My current situation and my current plan.
« Reply #34 on: June 08, 2021, 02:10:17 AM »
Thanks for the update Moiser. Impressive savings. How are you in yourself? Did you take some time to relax?

helloyou

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Re: My current situation and my current plan.
« Reply #35 on: June 08, 2021, 02:52:46 AM »
Yes the saving rate is quite impressive. Are you benefiting from being Tax free due to your expat status?

If not, you should take advantage of the SIPP and the S&S ISA to save on taxes.

Moiser

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Re: My current situation and my current plan.
« Reply #36 on: June 08, 2021, 04:15:34 AM »

Thanks for the update Moiser. Impressive savings. How are you in yourself? Did you take some time to relax?

I am in a much better headspace, thanks for asking. I moved back to my original rotation for a couple of months, so I've had a couple of months off since that long stint. I've been taking as many additional days as I can in order to limit my time in the UK and maximise the downtime the pandemic has created. I am practically living with my parents when I am not working, it's amazing and not amazing at the same time, I think you get the picture.

Just waiting on the world to open up a bit and for some of the restrictions to loosen, that'll make a big difference... but I think we're all in the same boat with that. My crypto wildcard also kinda paid off. I got back my initial investment with around 10K ADA left as a long term hold, it was a nice surprise as I'd written it off.

Yes the saving rate is quite impressive. Are you benefiting from being Tax free due to your expat status

Yes, I am currently tax free... as long as I don't go over 90 days in the UK. Pre Covid it was super easy to stay out of the UK, but I am having to keep a much closer eye on it now I  regularly travel to the UK.