Spending Improved, But Not Enough - Comments on the Numbers?

[h2ogal]

My goal is to reduce our family spending (me and DH combined) to $3600/month.  I've tracked all income and spending for this year through a tool similar to Mint.  Before finding MMM I was spending a bit more, and I have been able to trim my spending some, but not nearly enough.   

We live in NY State and winter was brutal.  Here is my average monthly spending Jan- April.

Utilities          $609.68  - Propane heat is killing me.
Gifts                  $606.29 - Couple of large cash gifts to our grown sons (infrequent events)
Taxes           $567.81 - Property and school tax in NY State is very high
Home Maint   $487.50 - This includes housekeeper/snow removal/etc.
Groceries           $423.31 - for 3 adults
Health/Med   $421.34 - DH dental and Neuro issues.
Insurance           $288.70 - House and Cars
Clothing/Shoes   $237.30
Restaurants   $228.89
Hobbies           $80.00 - YMCA
Business Exp     $167.32 -  Un-reimbursed expenses for new business
Other                $657.48 - Includes personal care, travel, telephone, gas, entertainment, etc.
Total   $4,775.60


We dont have any mortgage or debt, so we are saving a lot, but I feel we should be able to do better.  Anyone in NY have ideas on how to save on propane?

[Zamboni]

Tracking is the key first step, so good job doing that!

Honestly it all looks kind of high to me.  Seems like you can trim a little bit of fat in multiple areas.  Starting just with the basics:
 
Shelter: Between high utilities, taxes, home maintenance, & insurance it is costing you a large amount to live in your house even though you have no mortgage.  Room to trim in the home maintenance department at the very least.

Clothing: You are still spending quite a large amount on clothes even though surely you all have much more than you need already (I'm assuming that none of you are growing any more.) Cut to near $0 while you go through your closets and find hidden treasures that you forgot you had. 

Food: over $700, which is quite a bit of money. Can you cut down to $600?

If you trim some in the above categories and stop giving money to your grown sons, well then you are almost there.  Your goal seems doable with even a little bit of discipline.

If you break down the "Other" expenses, then you might get better feedback on the discretionary categories.

[skunkfunk]

Some of those expenses are ridiculous. Can you go through and justify why you can't get rid of or reduce them? I don't even want to address them without knowing how you're thinking, here.

I suggest reading some of the main blog posts.

[innkeeper77]

Your taxes, maintenance and utilities are costing you more than the clown mortgage (with PMI) DW and I pay- luckily for you, utilities are variable! I would suggest you get an energy audit with a blower door test, and start sealing up your home. This is even more important if you also use AC in the summers. Insulation is great, so is air sealing (fixing any air leaks you can) - I imagine this could save you a LOT of money (unless propane is just more expensive than I am imagining) - Don't replace your windows or anything expensive like that until you have fixed all of the other cheaper things. You also might want to consider turning down the heat and wearing wool socks etc until it warms up.

[terran]

Is your house especially large and/or poorly insulated? We're in Rochester with an old fairly drafty place (but decently insulated) paying under $1600/year for gas and electric.

[h2ogal]

Thanks!  Keep the feedback coming.  It helps to get a perspective. 

...Clothing: You are still spending quite a large amount on clothes even though surely you all have much more than you need already (I'm assuming that none of you are growing any more.)... 

Hmmm...this winter I kind of hibernated.  The only one growing was me...and not up.  haha.  I splurged on clothes this winter for sure.

This is what the Other is made up of
Telephone/Internet    $137 - we have several lines for business/fax, etc
Gasoline/Fuel    $102
Travel    $90
Entertainment    $67 - mainly renting movies/audio books/music
Home/land Improvement    $175
Personal Care    $46 - salon, rite aid products, etc.
Service Charge    $26 - accting fees/lawyer fees
Automotive Exp.    $15
Postage and Ship    $1

I know the spending is ridiculous.  We have high income.   Recovering Hedonist.  Or maybe not recovering, but looking into the pleasure of time and freedom vs. materials. 

Believe me when I tell you it used to be a lot worse until 2 years ago.  Trips to Vegas, Weekends in NYC, Napa, Florida, Mexico.  Spa Days, Ski Season passes, Daily Starbucks, $1k/month groceries, $2K for annual parties, Limo Wine Tours...all very normal part of our social life. 

We never really did debt though so we have that going for us... 

Then, 2 years ago DH bought a 2nd business - a restaurant.  That took up all our spare time, and quite a bit of our extra income.  The really big (Fun) spending stopped. 

Since then I've discovered MMM.  Now I want to Retire Early.  Im working on the spending, but not as aggressively as I could. 

Please feel free to tell me what an idiot I am.

[MDM]

My goal is to reduce our family spending (me and DH combined) to $3600/month.  I've tracked all income and spending for this year through a tool similar to Mint.  Before finding MMM I was spending a bit more, and I have been able to trim my spending some, but not nearly enough.   

We live in NY State and winter was brutal.  Here is my average monthly spending Jan- April.

Utilities          $609.68  - Propane heat is killing me.
Gifts                  $606.29 - Couple of large cash gifts to our grown sons (infrequent events)
Total   $4,775.60

If you eliminate gifts and assume heating bills will be close to nothing for most of the rest of the year, you are close to the annualized $3600/mo already.

Not to say there aren't other doable cuts (as mentioned already), but keep tracking as the year goes on and things may start looking better on their own.  Good luck!

[h2ogal]

Is your house especially large and/or poorly insulated? We're in Rochester with an old fairly drafty place (but decently insulated) paying under $1600/year for gas and electric.

Yes, This. We have a drafty/older/large farmhouse, on top of a very windy hill.   We have a wood stove that we use when we are home, and we keep our thermostat down - I sleep with a hat on sometimes!!  But the propane water heater, radiators, dryer and stove are very expensive all winter. 

My friend put a clear plastic over his windows this year and he said that helped a lot.  I'm definitely going to try that next year.   Maybe look into a more efficient heating system (but that will cost us before we get the payback).

[terran]

If you're planning to stay the house then putting some money into insulating and air sealing would probably be worthwhile. Blown in will be the least disruptive, but there are other options if you're interested in more extensive renovations.

[ShoulderThingThatGoesUp]

You have a housekeeper. That's silly. And in my opinion if you don't do your snow removal yourself when you are well, you need a house that requires less snow removal. (At my old house, we did it, but it was miserable. So now instead of a big driveway we have a parking pad and a sidewalk.)

Living in the Finger Lakes is going to be tremendously expensive if you're paying somebody else to move your snow. And it's pretty damn expensive to begin with.

[JLee]

Have you priced different car/house insurance?  I'm paying less than half of what you do - $75/mo ($908/yr) homeowners and $55/mo ($333/6mo) for car insurance (plus another $211/yr for the project car).

[skunkfunk]

Utilities          $609.68  - Propane heat is killing me.

Are you on a well pump or city water? Is it clean water? You may be a candidate for an instantaneous water heater. I don't have one, I can't say too much about that but it could save some money.

Just how large is your house? I hesitate to tell somebody in an old farmhouse that they should move, it sounds like someplace I'd want to live...

Gifts                  $606.29 - Couple of large cash gifts to our grown sons (infrequent events)

Can you explain this? That's $2400 in gifts. Is this typical? Unless there's a wedding in there somewhere I'm having a hard time figuring out what that might be.

Home Maint   $487.50 - This includes housekeeper/snow removal/etc.

Housekeeper and snow removal are not home maintenance. Are you each working more than 60 hours a week? If not, you need to rethink this. Again, how large is the house? If you can't clean it pretty well with 2 people x 2 hours of effort each in a weekend, it may just be too much house.

I recommend learning to do most home maintenance yourself. I replaced my water heater this weekend, for instance, for $350 and 4 hours of work. First time I've ever done that, most of this stuff isn't as tough as it sounds.

Clothing/Shoes   $237.30
Restaurants   $228.89

Why??

Are you self-insured on the cars? What are they? Do you make enough money to pay cash for cars and replace one if the worst happens within a single month's surplus?

Can I get you to come out with some specific reasons here or am I to be ignored again?

[Sibley]

OP, I put my notes below in red. I'm being blunt, but you're doing pretty good from where you were.

My goal is to reduce our family spending (me and DH combined) to $3600/month.  I've tracked all income and spending for this year through a tool similar to Mint. Good start! Before finding MMM I was spending a bit more, and I have been able to trim my spending some, but not nearly enough. That's why we're here :) 

We live in NY State and winter was brutal.  Here is my average monthly spending Jan- April.

Utilities          $609.68  - Propane heat is killing me. Make sure energy efficiency is addressed, you can do a lot that is fairly low cost and has a huge impact. Don't use the dryer, line dry your clothes.
Gifts                  $606.29 - Couple of large cash gifts to our grown sons (infrequent events) Your grown children are adults, they can and must figure out their life. Unless they're starving or homeless, leave them alone. And possibly even if they're homeless.
Taxes           $567.81 - Property and school tax in NY State is very high Is your assessment value right?
Home Maint   $487.50 - This includes housekeeper/snow removal/etc. Clean your own home and shovel your own snow. Facepunch. If you can't handle it, move.
Groceries           $423.31 - for 3 adults See restaurant comment below. Facepunch.
Health/Med   $421.34 - DH dental and Neuro issues.
Insurance           $288.70 - House and Cars Cars, as in plural? Do you really need multiple cars? Shop around, see if you can do better. Also, make sure you bundle policies and get all discounts possible.
Clothing/Shoes   $237.30 You already have plenty of clothes and shoes. No more. If you really need something, thrift stores.
Restaurants   $228.89 You're spending $650 a month to feed yourselves. Facepunch.
Hobbies           $80.00 - YMCA
Business Exp     $167.32 -  Un-reimbursed expenses for new business I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you will earn income. Make sure that you can deduct everything for your taxes.
Other                $657.48 - Includes personal care, travel, telephone, gas, entertainment, etc. See below.
Total   $4,775.60 That's more than my monthly net income.

And copied from your other post:
This is what the Other is made up ofTelephone/Internet    $137 - we have several lines for business/fax, etc Gasoline/Fuel    $102  You're gaining weight. Walk/bike instead.Travel    $90 Entertainment    $67 - mainly renting movies/audio books/music Ever hear of a library?Home/land Improvement    $175 DIY as much as possible.Personal Care    $46 - salon, rite aid products, etc. Um, I get my hair cut every 3 months at most. I have short hair and it shows. you're spending tons of money on unnecessarily expensive stuff. Facepunch.Service Charge    $26 - accting fees/lawyer fees  Can you do any of this yourself? Is it actually needed?Automotive Exp.    $15 If this is a car wash, facepunch. Postage and Ship    $1

[Tony H]

My goal is to reduce our family spending (me and DH combined) to $3600/month.  I've tracked all income and spending for this year through a tool similar to Mint.  Before finding MMM I was spending a bit more, and I have been able to trim my spending some, but not nearly enough.   

We live in NY State and winter was brutal.  Here is my average monthly spending Jan- April.

Utilities          $609.68  - Propane heat is killing me.

We dont have any mortgage or debt, so we are saving a lot, but I feel we should be able to do better.  Anyone in NY have ideas on how to save on propane?

Not from NY, but there is something that I learned about propane and the propane tank and the way that is handled by propane dealers.  Do you own or rent your propane tank?  If you own your tank you can call around for the best prices and the price can be very different from dealer to dealer.  If you rent your tank, it can only be filled by the tank owner and you are locked in to that dealer.

I once was renting a tank and when I found out how much some other people were paying for their gas compared to what I was paying, I bought a tank and shopped around for the best priced and payed for that tank in about a year and a half from the lower cost gas.  A win win for me. 

Do shop around for your best price and do it often.  The prices from dealer to dealer can vary as much as $.75 to a $1.00 a  gallon.

[h2ogal]

Can I get you to come out with some specific reasons here or am I to be ignored again?

Ha!  I love you guys!!  I got all my worrisome spending problems off my mind last night, left it to you guys to sort out and went right off to sleep!!  That was rotten of me wasn't it...?

But thank you ALL SO Much for the thoughtful responses....I could wait to get home tonight and check back in. 

Spoke with DH about the hot water on demand idea.  He will be looking into getting that done this summer.  We don't use heat in the summer of course, and the dang thing is burning propane to keep the tank hot all day while we are at work....doesnt make sense.


Also, I am going to look into the buy a tank idea.  I tried to join a propane coop but they didn't cover my area.

The housekeeper/house maintenance thing is a bit tricky for me.  This is my personal must-stache philosophy....

BEST:  spending cuts that have NO negative impact on fun/quality of life = Great!  (For example I LOVE beans, rice and veggies, dont like steak, hate food made in a factory.  So cutting grocery spending is :-)))    Did these type cuts FIRST.

GOOD: Good return, but requires investment or risk.  But still - No negative fun/quality of life impact.  (Like efficient energy improvements, increasing your insurance deductible, etc.). 

ICK:  Spending cuts that results in me scubbing the bathtub on Saturday instead of going out hiking with my pals = BAD.   I will do the ICK cuts, but only if I cant get to my goals another way.

Im NOT afraid of physical work.  I will happily spend 16 hours painting, gardening, building stone walls, etc.   

We hired our housekeeper almost 20 years ago, when DH was starting a business, I was working full time and doing my MBA.  We were both working 50+ hours a week and raising 3 messy rambunctious boys.  DH is not really into housework at all and I was spending my entire time off cooking, cleaning, and laundering.  I was NOT happy, DH was NOT happy.  Hiring the Housekeeper HONESTLY saved my relationship with DH and sons.     

The house/property is a huge expense.  We bought a 20 acres of what used to be a farm.  We have orchards, nut tree groves, gardens, barns, a stream, and access to ATV/snowmobile trails out the back door.    We have building lots set aside for any of the kids that chooses to build here.   Winter is brutal, but summer is paradise.  I don't think I will be able to leave.

[h2ogal]

So - Im trying to insert an image...

[Sibley]

Ok. You had 4 boys in the house. (Adult men count as boys in the making a mess department.) I get why you wanted someone else to clean for you, and at that time I may have let it pass. However, I'm assuming that the kids are either out of the house or are old enough to clean, and they should be! If they're out of the house, then how much mess are you guys making? Seriously, the bathroom shouldn't need to be scrubbed more than once a month. You guys spend an hour or so cleaning a week. You have gone beyond FACEPUNCH, you're into complainy pants territory.

That's $500 a month. Would you rather clean or RE? Your choice.

[Chrissy]

The good new is the cash gifts section is going away, since you said this was infrequent.

Energy:  Propane may be killing you, but think about electric, too.  Invest in some energy efficient bulbs and power strips.  Here's what I turn off with the click of a couple power strips:  TVs, modems/routers, chargers, microwave.  Takes no time, and is no different than killing the light switch.

Can you cut back on the housekeeper instead of eliminating?  I'm not gonna say boo about snow removal.  I can't even imagine...

Entertainment:  you have 3 sons.  At least one of them must be a tech geek.  Have him show you & your husband how to get movies, music, and audio books for free or cheap (Netflix!  Hulu!).  I'm using my Kindle to get e-books and audio books from the public library.

Phones:  Sounds like you have a landline or two for business purposes.  What about cell phones?  You can get amazing service for very little money with MNVOs.  You can find more information here:  http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/share-your-badassity/communications-tech-the-isp-voip-and-cellphone-superguide/  I'm with AirVoice myself, which is an AT&T knock-off.  Page Plus Cellular is the Verizon knock-off.

Congratulations on your transformation from Hedonist Spendypants (you make it sound so good!) to just a little Spendypants!  You sound like you're very financially secure, so I'm crossing my fingers for you that these changes bring a happy RETIREMENT... as soon as possible!

[h2ogal]

Its a mental condition I'm sure, being so Complainy Pants about the housework... 

Im willing (happily volunteer!) to work 2 jobs, (corporate office all day and then host/pour wine at the restaurant all night), spend the weekends doing the books at the restaurant and doing the yardwork at home, and yet I cannot seem to bring myself to do 6 loads of laundry on Sunday.  This may come from a traumatic early childhood experience...... 

Haha...but seriously we could cut back for sure on the Hired help.  We were talking last night that we could cut the cleaning hours in half now that the kids are mostly gone.  And once we are retired, maybe we will budget for once per month while we are here and DIY while we are snowbirding in a little condo in Florida.

How many hours in my office am I willing to trade for cleaning help....  Let me do the rough math....After tax/etc. last year I think I took in around $73/hr.  Household help is around $18/hr.  If I have 16 hours of help each month, for the next 30 years that will cost us $103K.   I would have to work maybe 1420 hours over that time frame to pay the expense.   That's about 8 months of slackidaisical office work in exchange for 36 woman-months of icky, scrub work....I dunno...seems worth it.


   

[h2ogal]

The good new is the cash gifts section is going away, since you said this was infrequent.

Ok, so this is the benefit of tracking spending.  If you had told me that we were spending 6K/year on cash gifts, I would have say "no way, thats crazy"  But when I went back and linked all the bank reports and ran the numbers for the past year+...yup, we sure did.

The good news is that the kids don't really NEED any help.  All have jobs. We just enjoy giving.  But its totally discretionary, so we can cut way down with no harm done. 

[SF'd]

Its a mental condition I'm sure, being so Complainy Pants about the housework... 

Im willing (happily volunteer!) to work 2 jobs, (corporate office all day and then host/pour wine at the restaurant all night), spend the weekends doing the books at the restaurant and doing the yardwork at home, and yet I cannot seem to bring myself to do 6 loads of laundry on Sunday.  This may come from a traumatic early childhood experience...... 

Haha...but seriously we could cut back for sure on the Hired help.  We were talking last night that we could cut the cleaning hours in half now that the kids are mostly gone.  And once we are retired, maybe we will budget for once per month while we are here and DIY while we are snowbirding in a little condo in Florida.

How many hours in my office am I willing to trade for cleaning help....  Let me do the rough math....After tax/etc. last year I think I took in around $73/hr.  Household help is around $18/hr.  If I have 16 hours of help each month, for the next 30 years that will cost us $103K.   I would have to work maybe 1420 hours over that time frame to pay the expense.   That's about 8 months of slackidaisical office work in exchange for 36 woman-months of icky, scrub work....I dunno...seems worth it.

Enjoyable post h20, thanks. I'd just like to point out that you're omitting the fact that the $18/hr you're paying a housekeeper isn't being invested elsewhere. Include an 8% return on each $3,500/yr over 30 years and you're looking at closer to $390k, or 5,300 hours/2.5 years of 40 hour work weeks of "slackidaisical" (love that) office work. You're also missing the double-benefit of reducing expenses - you can save more, AND your retirement income needs are also lower, so 2.5 years is probably underestimating things.

[h2ogal]

Include an 8% return on each $3,500/yr over 30 years and you're looking at closer to $390k..

KNEW one of you guys was going to come back with that opportunity cost argument!!!  This forum is getting to be a little predictable....

OK, so this is fun... how about this idea...what if I work an extra 8 months before I FIRE, Stache an extra $103K of Anti-Ick Cash in my favorite fund FUSEX (just because I like the name so much) and over the next 30 years that grows at 6% a year.  Starting in year 2 the DHK (Dear Housekeeper) is paid $288/month, with 3% COL increase annually.  By the end of 30 years the stache has grown to over $440K!!

At this point the DHK retires, Im decrepit, and I hire a full time home health aid to clean not only the house, but me as well.

Am I doing this right yet?

[SpicyMcHaggus]

probably a repeat of above, but I see:

spend the housekeeper money insulating the house. new vinyl windows are $110 each and well worth it. Blow insulation in exterior walls. do the attic. check out MMM's in-floor / solar project.

cut out the "other" expenses.

[h2ogal]

Insurance           $288.70 - House and Cars Cars, as in plural? Do you really need multiple cars? Shop around, see if you can do better. Also, make sure you bundle policies and get all discounts possible.

Sibley, you dont know the half of it...this cost is not our biggest, but it has the biggest  target on it! 

Cars have a strange attraction for DH.  I myself have NO personal car (business provides).     

DH on the other hand has multiple "personal"  cars.  Including 2 "Classic" cars that he does not even drive.  They sit in his shop.  The truck he drives every day is owned and paid for by the business.  The insurance for the personal 'classic' cars is over $600/year.  I just looked at the bill last night, and I was like, Really?  We are paying this much insurance for cars you don't even drive? 

I can't be too pushy about this, because this is an evolution for us and if he thinks Im  going over the top about saving money it may backfire.  So I think of it like farming...Im planting little seeds every day.

Sibley, I appreciate your efforts, but really you should work on not holding back your true thoughts... 
 

You're gaining weight. Walk/bike instead.T

 
I SWEAR you made me laugh out loud with that one!  DH is like "what the heck are you doing on that computer?!"

[Sibley]

The good new is the cash gifts section is going away, since you said this was infrequent.

Ok, so this is the benefit of tracking spending.  If you had told me that we were spending 6K/year on cash gifts, I would have say "no way, thats crazy"  But when I went back and linked all the bank reports and ran the numbers for the past year+...yup, we sure did.

The good news is that the kids don't really NEED any help.  All have jobs. We just enjoy giving.  But its totally discretionary, so we can cut way down with no harm done.

Have you read the book "Your Money or Your Life"? The research into giving cash to adult children may be enlightening to you.

[Sibley]

Insurance           $288.70 - House and Cars Cars, as in plural? Do you really need multiple cars? Shop around, see if you can do better. Also, make sure you bundle policies and get all discounts possible.

Sibley, you dont know the half of it...this cost is not our biggest, but it has the biggest  target on it! 

Cars have a strange attraction for DH.  I myself have NO personal car (business provides).     

DH on the other hand has multiple "personal"  cars.  Including 2 "Classic" cars that he does not even drive.  They sit in his shop.  The truck he drives every day is owned and paid for by the business.  The insurance for the personal 'classic' cars is over $600/year.  I just looked at the bill last night, and I was like, Really?  We are paying this much insurance for cars you don't even drive? 

I can't be too pushy about this, because this is an evolution for us and if he thinks Im  going over the top about saving money it may backfire.  So I think of it like farming...Im planting little seeds every day.

Sibley, I appreciate your efforts, but really you should work on not holding back your true thoughts... 
 

You're gaining weight. Walk/bike instead.T

 
I SWEAR you made me laugh out loud with that one!  DH is like "what the heck are you doing on that computer?!"

I have experience with men who have attachments to cars. All I can say is good luck, because I've never gotten anywhere on the topic.

I am very blunt by nature, but I'm usually more diplomatic because I have to be. It's refreshing to me to just say (or type) what I'm thinking, though I make sure I'm intending it to be hurtful.

And I'm glad I made you laugh :)

[skunkfunk]

How many hours in my office am I willing to trade for cleaning help....  Let me do the rough math....After tax/etc. last year I think I took in around $73/hr.  Household help is around $18/hr.  If I have 16 hours of help each month, for the next 30 years that will cost us $103K.   I would have to work maybe 1420 hours over that time frame to pay the expense.   That's about 8 months of slackidaisical office work in exchange for 36 woman-months of icky, scrub work....I dunno...seems worth it.
 

I don't know how you can just schedule all the cleaning. Just last night I left a bunch of ice on the counter that melted and got in drawers and cabinets, the dog puked everywhere, and the baby did his baby stuff. If I had a cleaning person on Sundays I'd be waiting all week with poop, puke, and mold all over the house.

See article - http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/12/30/are-you-cleaning-out-your-own-wallet/

[Imustacheyouaquestion]

You a grown kid living at home. He has a job, lives there rent-free, and eats your groceries?

He's saving major cash already by living at home. Put him to work doing snow removal and housecleaning. Chores in exchange for free rent can seem less awkward than extracting a rent payment, plus I understand you are probably trying to help him financially by not charging rent. Or am I missing something about the situation?

[h2ogal]

I don't know how you can just schedule all the cleaning.

Hi SkunkFunk!  Yes, for sure we cook and do dishes every day, and make our beds and pick up any clutter we leave around, sweep the floor if we track in mud, do an occasional load of laundry, etc.    We just outsource the actual deep cleaning.  Like the dusting, scrubbing bathrooms, cleaning out the fridge and stove, changing all the beds, organizing the closets, washing the windows, stuff like that.

On that topic I have news to report!  DHK came today and I spoke with her and told her that if she wanted time off this summer should could reduce her hours and come every other week or 1/2 day each week instead of all day.  So you should all feel proud that you helped me save some $....

[Scandium]

  The insurance for the personal 'classic' cars is over $600/year.  I just looked at the bill last night, and I was like, Really?  We are paying this much insurance for cars you don't even drive? 

Holycrap, you spend more to insure one car you don't drive then we do for two cars we drive every day! As a guy who don't care about cars (more than I do any other necessary tool) I can't really help. Just thought that was nuts. Good luck with that..

I agree pushing to hard initially is probably a bad idea. I'm going slowly with the wife (actually slowed down from my initial gung-ho) and I'm excited to see that she seems to be picking up some frugal habits without my prompting now.

[SpicyMcHaggus]

1) make the kids do the deep cleaning. fire the housekeeper.
2) ask hubbs to choose one of the classics.
3) change insurance on it. if he isn't driving it, he can get a non-op value policy
4) insulate.
5) investigate alternate ways to heat house or reduce square footage heated.
6) stop giving unless they NEED something. like a toothbrush or a bus ticket home.