Speeding ticket nightmare unfolding - any advice?

[Mr. Green]

I know people don't give legal advice on the internet but I'm grasping at straws so I figured it couldn't hurt to ask.

We've been traveling around the US since June 1st. We were in Colorado last Friday and I managed to get a speeding ticket. I was quite surprised since we were in the middle of a group of cars on a highway. We actually slowed and pulled onto the shoulder as we saw the police car passing multiple cars behind us, thinking he was headed somewhere urgent. It wasn't until he wouldn't pass us that I figured out we were being pulled over. The officer said I was going 81 in a 65. I'm sure I was speeding, everyone was, but I have no idea what my actual speed was. There was nothing I could really say since I knew I was speeding so I took the ticket and figured it was going to hurt a little.

I started looking into how this is going to affect my North Carolina driver's license and it's uglier than anything I could imagine. In North Carolina, someone with a clean driving record (which I have) is often given probation or the violation is reduced. If someone were actually convicted of going 81 in a 65 in NC then it's a 4 point ticket there. NC is also a weird insurance state, with separate license points and insurance points. A conviction usually assigns both. 4 insurance points equal an 80% increase in auto insurance rates. Says so right on the State Department of Insurance's website. So that's $2,400 in increased insurance premiums over 3 years for our one car. Not fun.

If I were a Colorado resident the ticket is 4 points, but if I paid it in 20 days or less they automatically reduce it to 2. I have no idea if one speeding ticket on a clean driving record would increase auto insurance rates in CO.

But this didn't happen in NC and I'm not a CO resident. So I called Colorado DMV and they will report the points and specific nature of the violation to NC (81 in a 65) but can't say what NC does with that info. It's sounding like maybe I could just pay the ticket promptly and 2 points might not be so bad. Then I called NC DMV and they said they will not record out-of-state license points (insurance points are up to the insurance agency) but a conviction over 80mph or more than 15 over the speed limit (I hit both here) and my license is automatically suspended for 30 days. Wow.

So I can't just pay the ticket. We're on the west coast for at least 30 more days and my wife has morning sickness and barely feels good enough to do anything right now, let alone drive. So I'd pretty much have no choice but to drive on a suspended license. To boot, I have to physically visit a North Carolina DMV and pay a fee to get my license reinstated at the end of the 30 days. I'm currently 3,000 miles away. I called the police officer since the class of ticket (10-19 mph over the speed limit) is a civil offense in Colorado and the cop acts as the prosecutor. I explained all this to him and unfortunately there's nothing he can really do until the court date. I could tell from his tone of voice that he had no idea all this could happen from one ticket on a clean driving record.

My court date is in mid-October. We hadn't really planned on being out here that long. On top of that, the first court date is only to plead guilty or not guilty. The cop only shows for the second date if the defendant pleads not guilty. I called a couple local lawyers and they say the magistrate (judge) for the county the violation occurred in is very strict and pleading guilty or no contest is basically a waste of time. One said the success rate is typically only 30-40% when lawyers get involved and usually it's for a technicality, not because the judge was lenient.

So I'm left shaking my head and this point wondering how in the hell it is that one speeding ticket, which isn't even severe enough to be a criminal offense, is probably going to cost me over $3,000 and suspend my license for 30 days if I pay it. If I go to court, I have to take the time and spend the money to get back out here or stay out here (probably twice!), and take the chance that the judge grants me no leniency and I still pay three grand-ish and have my license suspended anyway.

All this because our two states' systems are basically incompatible with each other. If I was in NC I'd probably get probation. If I was a CO resident I'd get 2 points and maybe an insurance increase.

Any thoughts? Flee to Canada? lol

[Steeze]

Anytime I’ve ever gone to court they have reduced the ticket, including in Colorado. Show up, tell them your sorry, explain that you’ll never do it again, request a reduction. Offer to do community service, make a donation, or take defensive driving classes if they don’t do it automatically. Speeding tickets can become anything - seat belt ticket, etc. with less points.

There are also a few companies that will fight tickets on your behalf and you only pay if they win the case. Never used one, but see them advertised on YouTube on the Donut Media channels.

[Mrs. Sloth]

Mr. Green, sorry to hear about the ticket. I would recommend looking into the deferred finding's program in Colorado to see if it will help with your situation. I did it once in WA. Good luck!

https://www.thewisedrive.com/should-you-get-your-speeding-ticket-deferred/

[use2betrix]

If you’re traveling full time, it’s incredibly ease to establish residency in South Dakota. Not sure if that could potentially help.

I’ve been moving regularly for years all over the country - I keep my license in SD.

*make sure to confirm all legal aspects

[Morning Glory]

Mr. Green, sorry to hear about the ticket. I would recommend looking into the deferred finding's program in Colorado to see if it will help with your situation. I did it once in WA. Good luck!

https://www.thewisedrive.com/should-you-get-your-speeding-ticket-deferred/

I've never heard of deferral. I was going to suggest that he just pay it and hope the systems are too clunky to talk to each other, but this seems like a better choice.

[mspym]

Have you tried posting this in reddit's r/legaladvice?

[ixtap]

Many years ago, FL had an option to take an online defensive driving course for ticket forgiveness.  Does CO have anything like that?

[Tester]

When I got a speeding ticket (16 MPH over the limit) I contacted some legal company on the internet.
They asked for the copy of the ticket, presented the list of things they will try and the cost.
The ticket got moved to a non moving violation and the total cost for me was the same.
Try going that route?

[Mr. Green]

Mr. Green, sorry to hear about the ticket. I would recommend looking into the deferred finding's program in Colorado to see if it will help with your situation. I did it once in WA. Good luck!

https://www.thewisedrive.com/should-you-get-your-speeding-ticket-deferred/

Thanks for that! It spurred me to look up deferrals and Colorado has something called "Deferred Judgement and Sentencing." It's essentially the same thing as the Probation Before Judgement that we have back in North Carolina but it's still unclear to me if I can utilize this. The law explicitly states that it is a legal tool available to misdemeanors, petty offenses, and traffic violations. However, it requires an agreement between the defendant and the prosecuting attorney, and approval from the judge. If this were a more serious traffic offense, it would be a misdemeanor and a district attorney would be involved as the prosecutor. My ticket is only a civil offense and the police officer is the prosecutor. I'm not sure if the cop would know how to go about creating the contract that that the judge would have to agree to, and this is especially murky since if I plead guilty at the first hearing the police officer doesn't even need to be there. Unless in these situations the judge is somehow given the power of prosecutor to handle the deferred judgment at their discretion. This might be something I could ask the clerk of court about.

Have you tried posting this in reddit's r/legaladvice?

I have not, and it's probably the next thing I should do.

When I got a speeding ticket (16 MPH over the limit) I contacted some legal company on the internet.
They asked for the copy of the ticket, presented the list of things they will try and the cost.
The ticket got moved to a non moving violation and the total cost for me was the same.
Try going that route?

I saw one of those, offtherecord.com. I was quoted $760, which is steep, considering you'll still pay some type of fine. I'm still unclear as to whether I will get insurance points on my record in NC, so before I learned about the license suspension part I wasn't sure if it would actually be worth it. I'm hoping I can talk with another insurance agent for the same insurance company in my area and they'd help clarify what happens to people in different situations re: their insurance rates. This might end up being the best way to do if the Deferral of Judgement is not an option for me with a civil citation.

Many years ago, FL had an option to take an online defensive driving course for ticket forgiveness.  Does CO have anything like that?

Not sure on this either, but I will look into it as well. I would not have thought of this as a thing for one speeding ticket.

[ixtap]

Many years ago, FL had an option to take an online defensive driving course for ticket forgiveness.  Does CO have anything like that?

Not sure on this either, but I will look into it as well. I would not have thought of this as a thing for one speeding ticket.

My experience was 15 years ago and a different state, but for a fee I avoided license points without having to travel back to the location to argue that there is no way my crappy car was going as fast as they had claimed. The trip would have cost as much as the course at that time.

[Mrs. Sloth]

It has been a few years but I believe I called a number on the ticket (cant remember for sure) and got instructions to send in the request. So all I did was send an email request, content copied and pasted below with personal info taken out. I hope it will be just as simple for you.


Hi,

My name is [ ] and I received a traffic ticket on xx/xx/xxxx. I would like to apply for the deferred findings program. Please find below the information requested.

Infraction #: xxxxxxxx
Address: xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Thank you! Let me know if you need anything else.

[Tester]

@OP the price you got quoted is steep indeed.
In my case I paid the law company almost the same amount as the initial fine, around 250 usd... That was my total cost, they covered whatever fine was finally recorded...
They said they will first try to cancel it (then saw the ticket and said they won't be able to as it was correctly completed), then move to non moving violation, and if those failed they would apply for the deferral.
They said the deferral is the last choice because if you use it once you can't use it for a long time.

[Steeze]

Also, not sure how great states are about sending ticket info around.

I was on probation in Wyoming and got a DUI in Colorado. Neither state ever found out about the other.

Also have a colleague who lost their license in NY, but has since successfully gotten a license in NJ and registered his car there.

[Duke03]

Just hire a local attorney to take care of the ticket.... I haven't paid a ticket or had one go on my record in over 20 years.  Every time I get a ticket I just call my attorney and he handles it.  Now days I just text him a picture of the ticket its great!!!  In the past he would charge me half of what ever the ticket would cost.  So if it was a $300 fine I'd pay him $150 and it would disappear best money I ever spent.  It doesn't go on my record nor does it affect my insurance rates.

[Mr. Green]

Looks like I need to try calling some additional attorneys then. One office said too busy for a case like this. The other guy, who claims to be the big traffic ticket guy in Durango, quoted $1,000 because he would have to take it to trial with a not guilty plea. His position was trying to plead down in this county was a waste of time.

[stoaX]

I received a speeding ticket in Davis County Utah once and asked for a "plea in abeyance". I still had to pay the fine but no conviction was entered so no points against my license and no insurance ramifications.   

[Duke03]

Looks like I need to try calling some additional attorneys then. One office said too busy for a case like this. The other guy, who claims to be the big traffic ticket guy in Durango, quoted $1,000 because he would have to take it to trial with a not guilty plea. His position was trying to plead down in this county was a waste of time.

My advice is look for an attorney who has an office close to the court house.  This means he is already in the courthouse a lot and probably is due a favor or two that could cause this ticket to be misfiled etc....hence it will get fixed for a lot cheaper than $1000.

[Car Jack]

I would absolutely hire a local lawyer and pay his fees.  NC is one thing but as you mention, insurance will see what happens here and if you let this go or pay it, be ready for doubling of your rates.  Just pay the lawyer.  The outcome will be better than if you try to go it alone.

[yachi]

This is interesting.  I'll share my experience in case it helps.
Around Christmas, driving back from my girlfriend's house & trying to get to my grandmother's Christmas party, I was doing 81 in a 65.  Same as  you- traveling with a group of cars, car to my right and left probably had in-state plates.  This was in NY, with PA plates.  I was able to pay the local town's ticket through the mail and didn't get any points in PA.

I think a chat with a NC lawyer may be warranted.  It sounds to me like NC clearly wants to suspend in-state licenses for these out of state offences "receiving a record of the driver's conviction" is a phrase in the state code.  Some situations could be ridiculous (maybe just outdated?) because sections of highway in Oklahoma, Idaho, Nevada, Montana, South Dakota, Utah, and Wyoming have speed limits of 80 mph.  And Texas has sections of highway with speed limits of 85 mph.  So you could conceivably lose your license due to going 1 mph over the posted limit!

[SimpleCycle]

You need to talk to a lawyer who understands how NC law works, not Colorado.  This involves interstate traffic compacts and is more complicated than average, so you need to know exactly what is reported and how North Carolina handles it.  I would not trust information given over the phone by Joe Random DMV employee.

[simonsez]

I have to admit I don't fully understand why you can't just pay the ticket but maybe I'm not getting the timeline.  You're gone from NC for 30 (27?) more days.  Presumably if your license is to be suspended for 30 days, they'll mail you something to your NC address*.  Meanwhile you're on vacation and when you get home, the majority of your suspension (if it happens at all) is over.  You can always sort out the insurance costs later whether it be shopping around, a different address, taking a class, etc.  Hiring a lawyer doesn't sound like a bad idea for when you get back to NC.

* I'm not advocating knowingly driving with a suspended license.  I'm just saying how would a Tar Heel resident even know their license is suspended when they get a ticket in another state and are still going to be away from NC for a few more weeks?  It sounds like you're already more educated than the average NC driver but I'm not seeing anything nefarious if you continue to drive after paying the CO fine and aren't home to check your own mail.

[JLee]

I have to admit I don't fully understand why you can't just pay the ticket but maybe I'm not getting the timeline.  You're gone from NC for 30 (27?) more days.  Presumably if your license is to be suspended for 30 days, they'll mail you something to your NC address*.  Meanwhile you're on vacation and when you get home, the majority of your suspension (if it happens at all) is over.  You can always sort out the insurance costs later whether it be shopping around, a different address, taking a class, etc.  Hiring a lawyer doesn't sound like a bad idea for when you get back to NC.

* I'm not advocating knowingly driving with a suspended license.  I'm just saying how would a Tar Heel resident even know their license is suspended when they get a ticket in another state and are still going to be away from NC for a few more weeks?  It sounds like you're already more educated than the average NC driver but I'm not seeing anything nefarious if you continue to drive after paying the CO fine and aren't home to check your own mail.

If they get stopped again, the police officer isn't going to care about "I haven't checked my mail" as a reason for driving on a suspended license. That's likely an arrest.

[Paul der Krake]

OP, is the license actually suspended now, or are you just expecting it to be suspended soon?

You can check the status over at:
https://edmv.ncdot.gov/MyDMV/MyDMVAccount/Login

No account needed, just enter your info then click the "License" tab at the top left. It will tell you what the status is. In your shoes, I'd check that website every morning and wait for the shoe to drop before doing anything. Maybe take a screenshot every day too.

Federalism blows sometimes.

[PMG]

It was TN not CO but when I got a ridiculous out of state ticket I had to call the local courthouse and ask questions and was told that I could do an online driving class and the violation would not go on my record. It still cost just as much. The ticket itself didn’t mention it, I didn’t find that info online, only when I called and asked. I guess I’m encouraging you to keep asking questions!

[simonsez]

I have to admit I don't fully understand why you can't just pay the ticket but maybe I'm not getting the timeline.  You're gone from NC for 30 (27?) more days.  Presumably if your license is to be suspended for 30 days, they'll mail you something to your NC address*.  Meanwhile you're on vacation and when you get home, the majority of your suspension (if it happens at all) is over.  You can always sort out the insurance costs later whether it be shopping around, a different address, taking a class, etc.  Hiring a lawyer doesn't sound like a bad idea for when you get back to NC.

* I'm not advocating knowingly driving with a suspended license.  I'm just saying how would a Tar Heel resident even know their license is suspended when they get a ticket in another state and are still going to be away from NC for a few more weeks?  It sounds like you're already more educated than the average NC driver but I'm not seeing anything nefarious if you continue to drive after paying the CO fine and aren't home to check your own mail.

If they get stopped again, the police officer isn't going to care about "I haven't checked my mail" as a reason for driving on a suspended license. That's likely an arrest.

What other states conduct business in this Kafkaesque manner?  This is ludicrous, especially for the initial offense of 16 over (as opposed to 25+ in CO being treated differently) being a revenue grab and having very little to do with safety (arguably, it makes the highways more dangerous when you have pulled over vehicles and police vehicles on the side of the road as opposed to letting a group of cars [i.e. reasonable and prudent to keep pace rather than be significantly slower] navigate the interstate-standard roads on clear days). 

But sounds like ignorance might not be bliss in this situation.  Good luck OP!

[JLee]

I have to admit I don't fully understand why you can't just pay the ticket but maybe I'm not getting the timeline.  You're gone from NC for 30 (27?) more days.  Presumably if your license is to be suspended for 30 days, they'll mail you something to your NC address*.  Meanwhile you're on vacation and when you get home, the majority of your suspension (if it happens at all) is over.  You can always sort out the insurance costs later whether it be shopping around, a different address, taking a class, etc.  Hiring a lawyer doesn't sound like a bad idea for when you get back to NC.

* I'm not advocating knowingly driving with a suspended license.  I'm just saying how would a Tar Heel resident even know their license is suspended when they get a ticket in another state and are still going to be away from NC for a few more weeks?  It sounds like you're already more educated than the average NC driver but I'm not seeing anything nefarious if you continue to drive after paying the CO fine and aren't home to check your own mail.

If they get stopped again, the police officer isn't going to care about "I haven't checked my mail" as a reason for driving on a suspended license. That's likely an arrest.

What other states conduct business in this Kafkaesque manner?  This is ludicrous, especially for the initial offense of 16 over (as opposed to 25+ in CO being treated differently) being a revenue grab and having very little to do with safety (arguably, it makes the highways more dangerous when you have pulled over vehicles and police vehicles on the side of the road as opposed to letting a group of cars [i.e. reasonable and prudent to keep pace rather than be significantly slower] navigate the interstate-standard roads on clear days). 

But sounds like ignorance might not be bliss in this situation.  Good luck OP!

All I'm saying is "I didn't know my license was suspended" is not going to help during a traffic stop, not arguing the merits (or lack thereof) of speed penalties. :)

[Mr. Green]

My license is not currently suspended. I have received the ticket but not paid it yet. I can certainly speak with a North Carolina attorney, but I would then be relying on that attorney being 100% accurate if their information differed from what the DMV told me. Really the only thing that isn't concrete is whether North Carolina will record any points on my license. The license suspension is guaranteed. It's right on the NC DMV website under license suspensions. I don't know how a North Carolina attorney could do anything about that. The offense is in Colorado and will simply be reported back to North Carolina. I could certainly chance that CO will not report back to NC but that seems risky. 45 states all participate in a compact now so I would not bet on North Carolina not learning of a conviction.

I'm going to keep making some calls. To a lawyer down the street from the courthouse as suggested. To the clerk of court to ask if Deferral of Judgment and Sentencing is used in La Plata County.

The only thing that is 100% clear right now is that choosing to simply pay the ticket and have my license suspended will be maximum damage with respect to insurance. Also worth noting that license suspensions are permanent on your driving record. Who knows if I'd ever get a CDL down the road but having a permanent thing on my driving record over one speeding ticket seems dumb.

I have considered the idea of "moving" back to Maryland where my mom lives and this is would be a total non-issue. No points for out-of-state tickets and no suspension. But what will that mean for health insurance? Getting a license somewhere typically means you are a resident there. We're currently using a lot of healthcare and MD ACA plans suck, compared to NC.

I've got a little more time to digest and think about all this. I appreciate the feedback so far though, and if anyone thinks of anything else I'm all ears.

[lhamo]

Not sure you want to go this route, but....

You can establish residency in Washington by registering to vote here.  I believe under current laws they cannot require you to provide a fixed, permanent address in order to register to vote (discriminates against houseless folks).

Washington does not use the points system for insurance or drivers licenses.

If you lack income, you also qualify for Apple Health as a resident of Washington.

[iluvzbeach]

As someone else has mentioned, I’d be shocked if all gloom & doom couldn’t be avoided by completing a simple defensive driving course. Fine would still be owed and course costs $, but no points anywhere and no impact on insurance.

[Zamboni]

I would absolutely hire a local lawyer and pay his fees.  NC is one thing but as you mention, insurance will see what happens here and if you let this go or pay it, be ready for doubling of your rates.  Just pay the lawyer.  The outcome will be better than if you try to go it alone.

Hire a local lawyer who does a lot of moving violation work. You will likely then never have to actually show up in court yourself. If he or she is good, they will continue it and continue it and continue it until it gets reduced to less than 10 mph over or the trooper no shows and it gets dropped somehow.

I got a ticket for going 69 in a 45 in addition to a reckless driving charge in NC, and that is what I did. Greater than 20 mph over the limit in NC pretty much came with an attached reckless driving charge at the time. It took a few months and cost me over $500 in fees up front to the lawyer, but I never did have to go to court since he took care of it every time without me, and in the end the reckless driving was dropped entirely and the speeding was reduced to <10 mph over. I think when all was said and done I sent the guy another $350 for all of the continuances . . . so maybe it cost me $850 total?

Traffic court is a bit of a racket, but you're just gonna have to pay the lawyer. It's way better than paying the increased insurance in this state, and you don't want your license suspended, as you note.

[BDWW]

Just ignore it and avoid CO for 5 years.   

(only half in jest, misdemeanor traffic violations have a maximum statute of limitations of 5 years in CO, and they generally don't relay misdemeanors to other state DMVs)

[soulpatchmike]

Maybe I am missing something.  How does the number of DMV "points" directly relate anything to insurance points?  I have never heard of any direct correlation of DMV points to insurance points.

My 16 yr old daughter crashed our best car and received a speeding ticket in her first year of driving and there was no noticeable adjustment to our insurance cost.  I think your best bet is to call your insurance company before fretting about anything.  Where did you find all this info about insurance going up that much and losing your license?

I found only one page on the NC DMV site that said anything about DMV points. https://www.ncdot.gov/dmv/license-id/license-suspension/Pages/points.aspx
"​​If an individual is convicted in North Carolina of certain motor vehicle violations, driver license points are assessed on their driving record based on the date of the offense. (Insurance companies use a different point system to determine insurance rates.)"

If you were using this https://www.stowelawfirmnc.com/practice-areas/speeding-tickets/nc-dmv-point-system/ guys website as a reference, his fear based marketing tactics are working well.

Just pay the ticket and enjoy the rest of your trip.

[yachi]

Maybe I am missing something.

Yes.  You are.

https://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_20/GS_20-16.1.html

[soulpatchmike]

Maybe I am missing something.

Yes.  You are.

https://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_20/GS_20-16.1.html

Wow...with 9 states that have speed limits of 80mph or higher it is amazing this legislation has not been repealed or reformed.

No riding a horse faster than 10mph on the street in Indiana...stupid laws everywhere...
https://library.municode.com/in/indianapolis_-_marion_county/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=TITIIPUORSA_CH441TR_ARTIINGE_S441-105EFCHHOOTAN

I still think that OP will not have as much trouble with insurance as one might think.  I would call them to ask about potential outcomes.

Not sure what I would do about the potential suspension situation, but dang what a ridiculous state statute.  Good Luck OP.

[Mr. Green]

Maybe I am missing something.

Yes.  You are.

https://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_20/GS_20-16.1.html

Wow...with 9 states that have speed limits of 80mph or higher it is amazing this legislation has not been repealed or reformed.

No riding a horse faster than 10mph on the street in Indiana...stupid laws everywhere...
https://library.municode.com/in/indianapolis_-_marion_county/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=TITIIPUORSA_CH441TR_ARTIINGE_S441-105EFCHHOOTAN

I still think that OP will not have as much trouble with insurance as one might think.  I would call them to ask about potential outcomes.

Not sure what I would do about the potential suspension situation, but dang what a ridiculous state statute.  Good Luck OP.

Also, the insurance points are dictated by the State Department of Insurance. They call it their "Safe Driver Incentive Plan." More like the, "we want to fuck you if you make a mistake" plan.

https://www.ncdoi.gov/consumers/auto-and-vehicle-insurance/safe-driver-incentive-plan

4 insurance points = 80% increase in auto insurance. Says right on their website. I think these archaic systems have hung around because NC tends to be lenient with violations, often lowering them or using probation.

Plus I don't think NC focuses on highway speeding very much. At least in southeast NC they don't. People drive 80-85 MPH on I-40 between Raleigh and Wilmington all the time and state troopers don't even pull out for that. I suspect that if you're not going 20 over they don't even bother because they know it will get knocked down to something that isn't worth their time.

All that goes out the window when your violation is in another state and it's simply reported back. The State then has no choice but to take it at face value.

[DaMa]

This is definitely a thing in Michigan.  Points stay on your driving record for 2 years, but on insurance for 3 years.  I would not call my insurance company and discuss it with them! 

In Michigan, it is very common to appear in court and get your ticket changed to something without points, but you still pay the same fine.  If you are a repeat offender, not so much.

[soulpatchmike]

Also, the insurance points are dictated by the State Department of Insurance. They call it their "Safe Driver Incentive Plan." More like the, "we want to fuck you if you make a mistake" plan.

https://www.ncdoi.gov/consumers/auto-and-vehicle-insurance/safe-driver-incentive-plan

4 insurance points = 80% increase in auto insurance. Says right on their website. I think these archaic systems have hung around because NC tends to be lenient with violations, often lowering them or using probation.

Plus I don't think NC focuses on highway speeding very much. At least in southeast NC they don't. People drive 80-85 MPH on I-40 between Raleigh and Wilmington all the time and state troopers don't even pull out for that. I suspect that if you're not going 20 over they don't even bother because they know it will get knocked down to something that isn't worth their time.

All that goes out the window when your violation is in another state and it's simply reported back. The State then has no choice but to take it at face value.

Geesh...I was reading that site and North Carolina seems to be run by the mob!  How could legislation be enacted that allows the state to collect a portion of every insurance premium and then dictate the terms of the private contract between an insurance company and an individual?  There were at least 26 NC state senators and 76 NC state representatives that voted for this nonsense.  The government never ceases to amaze me.

I thought Minnesota was F'ed up...We have insurance points and DMV points, but there are also accident forgiveness insurance plans and first ticket forgiveness plans in Minnesota.  I figured it was a nationally available thing.

[Kayad]

Former prosecutor for a city attorney’s office here (though not in CO).

Step 1 is to call the handling prosecutor (assuming you are leaving the area and can’t attend your pretrial conference in person) if you got pulled over in the county it is someone at the district attorney’s office, if in a city could be the city attorney’s office.  Prosecutors bring the charges, not judges, so that’s who you generally talk to about resolution short of going to trial.  Be polite and contrite and explain the situation and ask if there is any diversion program or option to reduce the charge.  If your traffic record is relatively clean, I’d be shocked if the answer is no.

Do this before trying to find a lawyer to represent you, which would be a total crapshoot. 95-100% of the return for 0% of the cost.

[Kayad]

Just hire a local attorney to take care of the ticket.... I haven't paid a ticket or had one go on my record in over 20 years.  Every time I get a ticket I just call my attorney and he handles it.  Now days I just text him a picture of the ticket its great!!!  In the past he would charge me half of what ever the ticket would cost.  So if it was a $300 fine I'd pay him $150 and it would disappear best money I ever spent.  It doesn't go on my record nor does it affect my insurance rates.

Well that is pretty messed up.  The good ‘ol boy system still runs strong in certain places I guess.

[Mr. Green]

Former prosecutor for a city attorney’s office here (though not in CO).

Step 1 is to call the handling prosecutor (assuming you are leaving the area and can’t attend your pretrial conference in person) if you got pulled over in the county it is someone at the district attorney’s office, if in a city could be the city attorney’s office.  Prosecutors bring the charges, not judges, so that’s who you generally talk to about resolution short of going to trial.  Be polite and contrite and explain the situation and ask if there is any diversion program or option to reduce the charge.  If your traffic record is relatively clean, I’d be shocked if the answer is no.

Do this before trying to find a lawyer to represent you, which would be a total crapshoot. 95-100% of the return for 0% of the cost.

@Kayad The irony is that if my speeding ticket had been MORE severe this is what I would do. I've also spoken to attorneys who've said a DA would play ball as the prosecutor on a first-time offense. The problem is that my ticket is classified as a civil citation and the cop that issued the ticket is the prosecutor for civil traffic offenses in the State of Colorado, at least with the State Police that's how it is. I have spoken with the police officer twice to explain all the ramifications of simply paying the fine and he insists that his hands are tied (meaning he can't change the charge) until he would be called to court (the second court date). However, I have no way of knowing whether this is truly the case or if he just doesn't want to. It's quite the legal quagmire, thanks to the differences in how our two states operate re: traffic offenses.

[the_fixer]

Just ignore it and avoid CO for 5 years.   

(only half in jest, misdemeanor traffic violations have a maximum statute of limitations of 5 years in CO, and they generally don't relay misdemeanors to other state DMVs)

Not a good idea, I got my license suspended 32 years ago for minor speeding tickets in Florida, I paid all of the tickets and years later when the states linked up Colorado refused to renew my license due to being suspended in Florida. I had to get a letter from Florida saying everything was paid and my record clear then go to court in Colorado to have a judgment/ info put in the system that said I was ok to get a license in Colorado.

32 years later I am still unable to renew my license online and have to go to the DMV and they have to look up the judgment.

TDLR- States communicate and just ignoring will not be good.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[aetheldrea]

It’s almost like they don’t want people from other states to come to Colorado and break the law, so they deliberately make it expensive and inconvenient. Weird.
My advice is to stay closer to home when you feel like engaging in illegal activities.
Just kidding, except not really.
The War On Cars podcast did an episode with an interview with the author of “Policing The Open Road,” which explored the personal automobile’s role in the origin of our modern semi-totalitarian police state. Because pretty much all of us are breaking the law constantly every time we drive, we can be pulled over at any time, cited, arrested or shot, at the discretion of the police. And traffic enforcement need was a major contributor to the growth of police departments.

[EvenSteven]

It’s almost like they don’t want people from other states to come to Colorado and break the law, so they deliberately make it expensive and inconvenient. Weird.
My advice is to stay closer to home when you feel like engaging in illegal activities.
Just kidding, except not really.
The War On Cars podcast did an episode with an interview with the author of “Policing The Open Road,” which explored the personal automobile’s role in the origin of our modern semi-totalitarian police state. Because pretty much all of us are breaking the law constantly every time we drive, we can be pulled over at any time, cited, arrested or shot, at the discretion of the police. And traffic enforcement need was a major contributor to the growth of police departments.

This comment is giving me whiplash. Your first paragraph seems to be praising draconian punishments for minor offenses, while your second paragraph seems to be criticizing them.

[yachi]

It’s almost like they don’t want people from other states to come to Colorado and break the law, so they deliberately make it expensive and inconvenient. Weird.
My advice is to stay closer to home when you feel like engaging in illegal activities.
Just kidding, except not really.
The War On Cars podcast did an episode with an interview with the author of “Policing The Open Road,” which explored the personal automobile’s role in the origin of our modern semi-totalitarian police state. Because pretty much all of us are breaking the law constantly every time we drive, we can be pulled over at any time, cited, arrested or shot, at the discretion of the police. And traffic enforcement need was a major contributor to the growth of police departments.

I think Colorado is behaving like a normal state, and fining you for the speeding.  It's North Carolina with it's harsh-to-the-point-our-police-don't-enforce-it speed restrictions that's setting up its residents to lose their license should they visit another state.

[BlueMR2]

I think Colorado is behaving like a normal state, and fining you for the speeding.  It's North Carolina with it's harsh-to-the-point-our-police-don't-enforce-it speed restrictions that's setting up it's residents to lose their license should they visit another state.

We get in the habit of thinking of ourselves as all one USA.  However there are drastic differences in state laws that can cause people serious problems for what one would normally consider just a minor incident.  I've been seriously cutting back my out of state travel as I keep hearing more and more of these horror stories.  I've heard some pretty good ones even for in-state of people getting licenses suspended for no apparent reason (or nothing even their fault) only to find out at a traffic stop, and a traffic stop with a suspended license can rapidly become a life or death situation these days.

[Mr. Green]

So I sucked it up and called my insurance company to see if the suspended license would have its own impact on my insurance, They confirmed it would. So this is now the totality of how this situation plays out for different residents with a clean driving record.

Colorado resident receiving a ticket for 81 in a 65 in Colorado
$175 ticket
2 points
An insurance increase (if any, some companies will forgive one speeding ticket)

North Carolina resident receiving a ticket for 81 in a 65 in North Carolina
The State allows one speeding ticket every 3 years by changing it to an improper equipment violation (confirmed w/ my insurance company)
A fine for improper equipment violation
0 points, insurance doesn't even come into play

Me - North Carolina resident receiving a ticket for 81 in a 65 in Colorado
$175 ticket
0 driver's license points because the ticket is out of state
4 insurance points (separate from license points in NC)
80% increase in auto insurance rates for 3 years (as dictated by the state)
30-day license suspension
$110 fee to reinstate license
Insurance company bars me from having collision & comprehensive insurance for 5 years as a result of the suspension (can only carry liability insurance during this time)


I couldn't have even imagined a list of penalties that long for one speeding ticket on a clean driving record. I guess I need to start looking into changing my residency.

[bacchi]

Dayam. I've always just ignored out-of-state speeding tickets.

It's been a while, though. I guess more states are connected in this dadgummed digital age.

[soulpatchmike]

Didn't I read that if/when the license suspension notice comes you have the ability to go to court and make a case to reduce or change how the ticket is enforced?  I sure would go in there and explain what you just said in your last post.  You can only hope for a little logic to prevail...

https://www.ncdot.gov/dmv/license-id/driver-licenses/new-drivers/Documents/driver-handbook.pdf

A conviction for speeding over 75 mph, in certain cases
In cases like the above, the DMV may suspend your driving privilege as soon
as it receives the conviction report from the court. If your driving privilege is
revoked, you may have the right to a hearing in the judicial district where you
reside. To request a hearing, call at 919-715-7000 or click on Contact Us at
MyNCDMV.gov. You will be notified by mail of the time and place for the
hearing. At the hearing you may state any facts that you think should entitle
you to driving privileges or to a reduction of the suspension period.
If you believe your driving privilege should not have been revoked and the
hearing gives you no help, you may appeal the DMV’s decision within 30 days
to the Superior Court of the county where you live. The court will review your
case to see if there were proper grounds for revoking your driving privilege.

[Mr. Green]

@soulpatchmike The license suspension won't come until after the court date (as a result of the conviction in court). If I simply pay the ticket there won't be a court date at all. A speeding ticket will just appear on my NC driving record and shortly after that, I'll receive a notice that my license has been suspended. I could absolutely walk into court and present all this hoping that they would figure out a way to make this fairer but I run the risk of either the judge or the police officer being an asshole and not bending at all. Then I get all these consequences and the additional financial cost of having traveled across the country for a court date or paying an attorney to represent me.

I'm not a big fan of leaving an option for getting screwed if I can avoid it. I've already changed the address for my bank account and credit card. The next statement that is generated for each of those will give me all the documentation I need to get a MD driver's license. I'll turn my NC license in to ensure that record is closed, get a certified copy of my NC driving record, and take that with me to get a new MD license. I'll make a written request to the court for a Deferral of Judgement. Hopefully, they grant it but if they don't MD won't assess any points because it's an out-of-state license, won't suspend my license because they aren't insane, and the insurance shouldn't be a big deal because my wife owns our only car. I'll be required to carry liability only insurance in NC as a driver of that car but the main coverages (collision & comprehensive) will be hers as the owner of the vehicle.

That's my current plan anyway.

Edit: I see the description soulpatchmike listed mentions taking the suspension to court after the fact. That would definitely be an option too, but if they would also be unreasonable then I'm out of luck. I think the plan to get a MD driver's license prior to potential conviction is the safer bet. The cost should be fairly minimal and as we're returning to the East Coast we'll visit both NC and MD for other reasons anyway so I think I can work all this into our plans without a bunch of extra trips and costs. It's ridiculous that this seems to be the safest plan but it is what it is.

[Mr. Green]

Thought I'd put my concern here to bed with this news article.

https://www.wral.com/speeding-ticket-in-another-state-could-cost-your-license-in-nc/20180765/?version=amp

This Durham, NC man went through exactly what I thought would happen. He got an out of state speeding ticket, thought it was no big deal because his driving record was clean, paid it, and only found out after the fact that his license was suspended.

That's some bullshit. I'm glad I made the moves I did.