Spartan Living

[AndrewS]

Hello, I'm new to the forums. I'm very glad that I stumbled upon this site with so much valuable information and support. I'm looking for some tips, tricks and advice as I'm about to start a new chapter in my life. I plan on buying a van and converting that into my place of residence. I have no kids, not married and minimal bills. I figured the van will cost as much as what some of my friends pay for rent on a monthly basis. My goal is to save as much money as possible in the next 4 years and to only work part time once I hit 40. I know it's possible to save quite a bit of money during this time, my problem is knowing where to put it to where it will make money for me, So I'm curious as to how you would start out. I'll try to post the exact expense amounts as soon as I can. I've got my food expense down to $25 a week, phone bill is $35 for unlimited talk and text, Car Ins. will be around $30 a month.

[Thegoblinchief]

The book "Walden on Wheels" would be a good start. Jacob at ERE lived in an RV for quite a long time, though has switched back to home ownership. But neither his book nor his blog has much in the way of specific advice for van-dwelling.

$35 for the phone is high. Depending on which carrier you're currently with, switching to an MVNO on the same network could save you at least $15/mo.

There's a forum member Benpercent who's voluntarily homeless. In his most recent update (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/am-i-maxmizing-my-savings-while-being-voluntarily-homeless/), it became questionable whether he was saving any money by his lifestyle. If you're willing to have roommates (he wasn't because of bad past experiences) you could be way ahead renting an apartment. Hell, if you have good core finances, buying the right duplex, triplex, or 4plex would give you "free" housing and way less additional complexity.

It's probably not the best way to save money. And, to me, even if it does, it adds a lot of complexity re: showering, food prep, etc that's often not worth it. I'd only consider van-dwelling an option if you wanted/needed a more mobile/digital nomad lifestyle, NOT if you were going to stay in a full-time regular old job.

YMMV.

[Raay]

There's plenty of people on YouTube who report their adventures from living in a van, including budget figures. That is where you should start - make a realistic plan of expected expenses and activities.

Spartan and independent as it may sound, this sort of life doesn't sound cheap - the time you spend on vehicle maintenance activities and also to sort out basic necessities (energy, heating, showering, toilet, security...) is the time you won't spend on advancing your other hobbies or career skills. Also, depending on your job, you may have to cope with social stigma and isolation.

In fact your employer might even be objectively right to discriminate against you because having to "struggle" against harsh conditions might mean that you don't get enough rest to remain highly productive at work, so it's bad for business.

So be careful that you don't turn out as penny-wise, pound-stupid. I suggest trying it out by making your life harsher/less expensive while living stationary (e.g. turn off the heating and see how you like it to manage your clothing during the day, take showers in cold water etc.). The point is not that you can't go more extreme, the point is whether it really "pays off".

[The_path_less_taken]

I knew people who live in vans in San Francisco, which is fairly mild weather most of the year.

They shower at work, in gyms, I know one person who would "visit" hospitals and shower there...borderline ethical but not a huge deal since hospitals are already heating that water. Years ago SF had free showers near the wharf for people who swam in the Bay...not sure they still have that though.

One guy I knew did it because apartments in SF average about $1800 a month. So he figured he could bank that amount.

The only issue was having to go stealth mode for sleeping. During the daytime, there are a thousand places you are free to hang out, cook, etc. But one candle at night will alert a neighborhood that you're 'camping' and it can get ugly, fast.

While I know MMM advises against fast food, I know one person who would get a cup of yogurt with granola for breakfast, and a side salad at Wendy's for lunch, and something simple from the store for dinner who did manage to make it work: he worked full time as a house painter. He saved over 3k each month, by his estimate, and this was 20+ years ago.

It's not as easy as you might think though. Even people who know/love you will look askance at you. Dating is a challenge. It's illegal to sleep in a vehicle in most towns, and cops can be cruel. It can be dangerous: like the homeless, you're considered an easy mark as you probably won't call the cops...

The best thing to do would be to figure out if you can psychologically deal with the social stigma, then go undercover investigate people who are already doing it in the area you're thinking of living/parking. These people can be secretive (for good reason) but if you do manage to befriend someone just ask them where they're going for showers, etc.

Good luck on your decision. Please report back. 

[AndrewS]

Thank you for the advice and input. I plan on doing this while living on one of the San Juan Islands. I'm currently figuring the details out as I might be able to park the van on a friends property, which I would then be able to get water and electricity. I feel that any discomfort experienced in the short term is a small price to pay for the amount of money I'll be able to save.

[vagon]

If you can finance a house and get enough room mates to offset or even pay for your mortgage then you will be way ahead.

A house should appreciate, a van should not.
A house takes care of your mail, showering and food prep issues.
With the right room mates you could get economies of scale on specific groceries.
You may not need the van at all, removing the depreciation, maintenance, insurance, rego, gas etc etc.
There's no homeless/van-living social stigma.

[horsepoor]

We lived on a sailboat when I was a kid, which was legal, but spent part of our time living in a shop my dad rented, which was not.  Also had friends who lived in vans, and it was a fairly constant stress, having to worry about being moved along due to illegal camping... which means you may have to move, then your friends don't know where to find you, etc.  Showers and bathrooms are a problem too.  I think a small RV in a location with hookups is about as low as I would go, but honestly at that point, I'd rather have a tiny studio apartment.

Anyway, there is a Van Dweller's list serve or something that could probably give you good information.  My dad was more active on it a few years back.  He drives between Washington and Florida twice a year, and camps in his Dodge Caravan along the way.  He says he likes this better than his previous cargo vans because they don't attract as much attention so he can sleep on a residential street without arousing suspicion.  He lived in his van on his own property last summer due to extenuating circumstances, but said he was ready to move back into his studio after a couple months of that, and that was without the need to creep around and hide what he was doing.