Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise

[TheDude]

Fucking Awesome!

[mozar]

Yay!

[mateoSF]

Just read this entire thread today, and am glad it had a happy ending.  Congrats on the new gig.  I am pretty sure that you will look back on this later and agree it was a good move.  Each new job (I'm also in the same field) brings new experiences, people and challenges.  I had a different experience before the birth of my first child 12 years ago, as I was laid off the day before Thanksgiving with a whopping 2 days severance package along with 2 days of medical coverage.

Now I need to work on asking for a raise myself....

[AK]

Thanks everyone for the support. It's really appreciated. Hopefully this thread motivates others to think about their careers and have the courage to take action.

Now I'm looking forward to the day when I'm working on the back patio with the nice sun beating on my skin and having lunch with my wife and child every day. Seriously, this is awesome.

[ncfam]

Wow, as a manager for a software development department in a competitive market, this conversation is making me feel very underpaid! 

I actually changed jobs when pregnant and it was a very scary experience which ultimately turned out well.  When I was pregnant with my second, my husband switched jobs and has never looked back.  But it's so hard to disrupt things further than what you already know is coming.  In the end it always seems to work out. 

Good luck with the switch!


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[JLee]

Thanks everyone for the support. It's really appreciated. Hopefully this thread motivates others to think about their careers and have the courage to take action.

Now I'm looking forward to the day when I'm working on the back patio with the nice sun beating on my skin and having lunch with my wife and child every day. Seriously, this is awesome.

I am hoping to be having a similar conversation with my boss in the next month or two - just need to finish a cert and see if I can get a few offers elsewhere to judge my appropriate salary range. :D

[GetItRight]

Thanks everyone for the support. It's really appreciated. Hopefully this thread motivates others to think about their careers and have the courage to take action.

Great work and congrats on the new job. I have been following this thread since I find myself in a similar situation. I'm in a sysadmin role rather than dev, but believe I am underpaid. I've turned down offers in the past and my pay has slowly grown here, currently in the ballpark of where you were.

We were bought and then layoffs so my work has grown to include anything remotely IT or are normally different jobs or specialties. The few remaining are paid more than me but I end up doing some of their responsibilities that they don't know how to do, as well as work that used to fall on others, and random things for other departments that are short of staff. I do it because I care about the company and people, but it gets old being underpaid for my main role and then struggling to learn and switch between totally different types of work typically split among a few people or doing mindless work they could pay a warm body half as much for.

There is a new guy that management didn't consult anyone about and does not seem to have the required skills or even a clearly defined role. When I've pointed this out the answer is we'll just send him to training, classes, etc. This is an added insult since he is paid more to do less, and when I went back to school the company would not pay any tuition for me as per their policy, just flat out refused after I had already incurred the costs and lost time. I'd like to stay with the company if things improve but I know they won't pay what I can get elsewhere. I'm risk averse and still have a lot of student loan debt to pay off so the plan is to stick it out for 2-3 years until debt free and then move on, but give the company a chance to pay market rate once I have an offer I'd take and no debt to worry about.

[AK]

Gettingitright,

Good luck on your journey. Have you thought about moonlighting to bring in additional income or other things? For example, I have a personal finance blog as a side hobby but have not monetized it. I might try to create a software product in the future... Anyway, keep us informed on how things go.

I hear ya about being the go to guy for various things.The ceo just asked me today if I'd be interested in taking on more work without any additional pay that requires training new hires and partners and coordinating their tasks with various depts afterward. My reply was doing it full-time is not what I want. But I like variety and wouldn't mind doing it occasisionally / for a few hires. It was hard to keep a straight face and not feel sorta bad when I'll probably give notice tomorrow...

[simplified]

I have a feeling that they are going to match your new salary. Thanks for sharing the experience. Keep us posted.

[jeromedawg]

Congrats! And best of luck with giving notice as well as starting the new position. It sounds really exciting!

[AK]

I put in the papers Thursday night except for one other one to the new company. Friday morning I planned on putting in my 2 weeks so I asked my boss who works remote if we could talk. He asked if it was urgent and I replied it can wait until later. That day he had tons of meetings so we didn't have a chance to talk so I texted him last night saying I wanted to talk to you about putting in my 2 weeks.

This morning, we talked on the phone and had a very candid chat. I essentially told him why I was looking for a job, because I feel underpaid, and what the new job offered and everything. He said well I don't want to lose you. Is it just the money? I came back and said yes and then he was like well what would you stay for because I'm not the haggling type. I said $115. During the discussion I was mentioning to him that my wife said I shouldn't stay and should take the other job and my boss replied before I talk to upper management, talk to your wife and let me know what you want to do. A happy family is more important than anything. That means a lot to me that he said that...

Some back story... All this week, I've been wrestling with deciding what I'd do if they countered, which they haven't yet but we'll see. Based on all the feedback here, from family and friends and logically, I should go! However, emotionally I still want to stay. Based on my actions, that re-affirms how I feel. I didn't go out of my way to push the 2 week notice. After I signed the papers late on Thursday, I was working into the early hours on Friday to complete work. After talking to my boss, who I have an awesome relationship with, I feel at ease with staying if they match the offer or slightly less. One of the reasons I like to follow-up here is that writing helps put things into perspective for me.

Staying is definitely risky. Future promotions and future raises are questionable.? But then again I hope they don't want to see me go. Also, I like the work, the people, my immediate boss, etc. I'm unsure how much more ambitious I'd like to be with my career so am unsure if future promotions are really a big deal. Of course, things change in time. For me, starting elsewhere is risky too. Interviews went really well and they seem to be good guys. I think I'd enjoy working there but would have to find out to confirm. One thing that had me question whether to go work for the other company was leading a team of offshore developers. This was stated in the offer letter. I was like wait a minute they didn't mention offshore guys. I asked the recruiter about this and she said well I don't think they have an off shore team and everyone leaves the office by 6 but even if they do get an off shore team, it's probably like 1 day a week. My experience with off-shore teams has been mostly underwhelming so I don't have a desire to deal with that despite higher comp and perks. This was not mentioned to my boss. I feel like I'm writing this to convince myself to stay if they counter with what I'm looking for.

That's what's going on right now...

[mozar]

Did you already sign the offer? If so the counter offer is moot. I second listening to your wife.

[MrFrugalChicago]

I am a fan of never accept a counter. Your name is mud.

[MayDay]

Dude,  you told them what you thought you were worth 3 weeks ago, and they didn't care. 

Just leave.  They don't care. 

[mm1970]

I would still leave.

When I get to the point of interviewing, I'm pretty much done.

(Of course for me, I didn't get the most recent job, so I'm not done - but what I did is transfer to a new department).

Anyway.

My $0.02

[AK]

Things worked out. My wife and I talked. She said I'm happy with your current employer. I contacted my boss and he contacted mgmt. they agreed to 115. I feel much better. Now, I have to contact the recruiter and the other company to respectfully decline the offer. My wife and I are both comfortable with the decision.

[mxt0133]

The lesson to be learned from all this is always negotiate from a position of strength.  The first time you tried to negotiate you were pretty much dead in the water, you got a bump yes but not your market rate.  So now that you have a offer in hand, fyi it could be imaginary they wouldn't know either way, all of a sudden they can afford $115k.  If I recall correctly before their excuse was they couldn't afford to give you that much because the company wasn't doing that well.  What happened in the past two months that made them all of a sudden be able to afford you?  I'm betting nothing.

Moving forward always be interviewing to find out your market rate.  Glad it worked out for you.

[Ricky]

I don't think its a bad decision to stay, considering NYC would of been much higher cost of living for you probably.

The only problem is I think their credibility is shot now that they have went back and forth with you so much. Your mind will start wondering again, only probably sooner.

[AK]

Ricky, I would actually have been working from home and not having to relocate to NYC. Ironically, I keep thinking my credibility is currently shot with them. I brought this up to my boss and he said management deals with this stuff frequently and in not so many words don't worry about it. Only time will tell if my mind will wander again.. For now, it's definitely not. I want to do everything in my power to help this company succeed and thrive.

Mxt0133, all good points. Nothing has changed in the last few months except me finding a new job which told them I'm serious about getting market rate. I think during the negotiations they thought I wouldn't leave and I'd settle for less. To be honest, I didn't think they were going to counter. I'm glad they did though.

The prevailing wisdom is to never accept a counter offer. Somewhere stated that 80% of people who accept a counter leave within 6 months. Despite that, I've always been a proponent of taking advice with a grain of salt and to do what you think is best for you even if you're the only person who thinks it's smart. Will things work out? I think so but only time will tell.

[swashbucklinstache]

One thing I would say is to not fully shut it down on the job search quite yet, in terms of knowing what you want and what is out there (if not interviewing).

Longer term I think interviewing is good so that, as others have mentioned, you always have a rough idea of your market rate. But, especially in the case of a counter offer, I'd keep in contact with the recruiter and keep looking at jobs at least a little bit  informally for the next 2-6 months. Sometimes employers will propose a counter offer so you don't leave in 2 weeks, and then immediately search for someone who would do your job at your previous rate (or just less than you now make) or a reorganization or something so you become expendable. And as soon as they find that person/solution, send you on your way one way or another. The thinking being that they might be able to afford you at 115K for three months even if they can't or don't want to indefinitely. The potential for this obviously varies a ton by the employer.

Also, not to make you paranoid, but it's not like they would tell you that your credibility was shot with them even if it was.

In any case I think you should be celebrating! We're all telling you the potential pitfalls and bad things that might happen so it might be possible to spend too much time worrying about that and forget that you just got a humongous raise! Congratulations and I'm happy for you, internet stranger.

[AK]

I'm hedging my bets right now in case things don't work out. Thanks for the support, swashbucklinstache. I'm focusing on what ifs instead of celebrating the raise received. Let's just say I'm hoping for the best but planning for the worst.

[trishume]

To use Reddit terminology: O.P. delivers! The frequent updates on your progress are cool.

Good job on the negotiations! And never forget that at least for the moment the job market for software engineers is really good.
You got a great new job offer just a short time after you started searching, chances are you could do it again any time you need.

Also remember that being a great company with cool culture is a criterion you can select for when looking for a job just like salary.
The company I'm working for during my upcoming school work term is my preferred choice because it's just an awesome and nice place to work, and I can choose them over others because of that. If you like your current job you can always find another job that is just like it or better, and since you have the skills you'll probably get it.

But it seems your current job is meeting all your needs so enjoy working there! And feel secure in knowing that should it ever stop meeting your needs you can find another awesome place to work.