Author Topic: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise  (Read 32785 times)

TerriM

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #50 on: January 08, 2015, 11:04:07 PM »
AK, go and get another job offer.  You need to know what you are really worth.  You can't negotiate with them when you have your own internal uncertainty.

You said, you weren't looking before when you talked to them.  Sure... That was true.

But now you are......


clifp

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #52 on: January 09, 2015, 01:58:36 AM »
Having a stable job that you like is worth a lot of salary. Remember, most of us are here because we value happiness over dollar throughput.

Yes it is but..  Salary and motivation is a complicated thing.  It impacts your sense of self worth, your willingness to go the extra mile,and your sense of fairness.

Although you liked your job, that was before it became abundantly clear that you were significantly underpaid, and your company didn't value your service as much as the market did.

You can't really unlearn the information that you now know. So without jumping through significant mental hoops, you are never going to be as happy with your job as you were 6 months ago.

AK

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #53 on: January 09, 2015, 07:28:41 AM »
Really good feedback everyone!! This community is great and I'm honored to be here.

Cathy, I definitely tend to be "pleasing" and sometimes complacent. Honestly, I'm happy I had the courage to ask for a raise. For me, that was a huge step. For others, probably common. Changing my mindset to "nothing is good enough" will be tough because I tend to be very tolerable so that'll be a " transition.

Clifp, your comments about salary and motivation are spot on for me. I feel like I'll only do the minimum to maintain my performance instead of going above and beyond like I have been unless they get me to where I want to be. That's very unlike me because I want to do everything possible to help the company succeed.

Chopper41, that is exactly what I'm wrestling with. I'm happy but knowing I'm underpaid is not sitting well with me. I feel lucky to be happy to go into work everyday most days since I've worked here the last few years.

Terri and ExFlyBoy, when I return from vacation, the search is on with full force. At the bare minimum, it'll tell me what I'm worth.on the bright side, I'm good at interviewing and showcasing myself.

Swashbucklinstashe, very interesting points. While they kept telling me that they're being unprofitable, I kept thinking that at least that was being minimized by me. Knowing now that they're looking for up to 3 more salesforce developers in my salary range and I'll probably be mentoring them is making my skin crawl. As mentioned above, I'm going to find somewhere that'll pay me X.


17oclockshadow

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #54 on: January 09, 2015, 08:43:06 AM »
Hi Everyone. I found MMM a year ago and have been OCDing about F.I.R.E ever since. My current savings rate is 50% and I'm working on increasing it further. While tackling the spend side of the equation, I thought why not tackle the income side too. Any advice based on my plan to ask for a raise would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

Background

Next Week, I have a performance review with my boss and I plan on asking for a raise to $105,000 from $80,000 and discuss why it's warranted based on my contributions. I've never actually asked for a raise in the almost 8 years being a Software Engineer. I had always just received merit raises and bonuses. To prepare for this, I've spent probably 15-20 hours documenting my accomplishments, researching the market rate for similar software positions in my area using sites like Glassdoor and Salary.com, and researching these forums and the internet about how to go about asking for a raise. Negotiating is a skill I'm working on improving and I definitely need more practice.

I've been with my current employer for almost 4 years and am extremely happy being there. Our company now has a product on the market that I had a large hand in getting it to where it is. Because it's so successful, we're growing fast and have increased our workforce by about 40% this year alone because of the increased demand.

My current position is Technical Consultant. Based on that title's responsibilities, I have to gather requirements, design, implement, test, and document software based on customer's needs. I do all of that plus interview job candidates, mentor new employees, architect / design various customizations for other projects I'm not directly on, troubleshoot other people's issues because I'm the GoTo guy on certain technologies and domains, and provide training to partners. Additionally, I put in extra hours to enhance various tools and processes to streamline things which have made notable contributions. Currently, all the new hires, mostly recent grads, also have the title of technical consultant. Based on the what I've described, I think I'm more of a Senior Technical Consultant or Lead.

At my employer, we typically have monthly performance meetings with an annual performance meeting for raises and such near year end. My reviews have all been outstanding and for a few months my boss did not schedule any performance meetings. I actually asked for my performance meeting to be rescheduled to next week because it was scheduled during my vacation this week. In past performance meetings, I've told my boss that I don't want to code forever and this past week he mentioned that beginning next year, I'll be doing mostly architect / design work for projects. While having lunch with some of our new hires a couple months ago, my boss said that I was "brilliant" which made me feel good.

I also have a B.S. in Computer Science and a Master's in Business Administration with a concentration in Accounting and many Finance classes taken. The accounting and finance background has really been helpful.

If it helps, I'm located in western New York. Also, I've been perusing CareerBuilder and Indeed and see Remote positions where I can work from home and potentially earn even more than what I'm asking for. While I could earn more elsewhere while working from home, I'm really happy where I'm at and am afraid of not being happy elsewhere despite the higher income.


Looking For Feedback On
  • Should I ask for a promotion as well as a raise?
  • Is asking for a $25,000 raise too much? I realize that's above what most receive but I feel like I'm worth that based on my skills, going market rate, and most importantly the contributions I've made to my employer and will continue to make.
  • Should I just ask for a raise without giving a number? I'm worried that asking for a specific number will potentially leave money on the table if they say sure without any negotiating as well as them thinking I'm greedy.
  • Anything else you feel would be relevant.

I will give some contrasting advice here.

I agree that it's good for you to ask for a raise; you seem to be an asset to the company.  Good for retiring earlier, good as personal development for yourself.

On the other hand, you have said you like your job and its relaxed environment.  You're going to need to decide if those benefits are worth the lower salary.  With the promotion, you're going to have larger expectations on your shoulders.  If you want to grow your career, then it could be a good opportunity.  However, if you're just looking to accelerate your way towards early retirement, then you might not be in the right mindset to handle the extra responsibility. 

I don't believe that the grass is always greener; you only live once, and I personally believe in taking chances to make yourself happier and feel more fulfilled in your career.  However, the impression I have from you is that you are already happy with your job.  A lot of people here are not happy with their jobs.  With a job you are happy with, you can coast into early retirement, enjoying life along the way.  There may be other higher paying jobs out there; will they have the same good work atmosphere and work/life balance that you enjoy now?  Important things to determine.  Are you willing to sacrifice that for higher pay?

To this end, the question is not whether you are underpaid relative to other software engineers in general; the question is whether you are underpaid compared to other software engineers in similar locations, with similar relaxed work hours, with a good environment, etc...

TerriM

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #55 on: January 09, 2015, 10:38:34 AM »
AK, I realize that you're worried that your next job won't be as good as this one.  You can always leave and come back--don't burn any bridges.    The problem is that things can be greener on the other side if you find the right plot of grass :)

I once worked at a laid-back place.  Come when you want, go when you want.  Nerf gun fights mid afternoon.  It was my first real job. Small company.  One of my coworkers had worked other jobs and had expectations--like a yearly review.  I didn't want a yearly review--I didn't think highly of my work, and I didn't like criticism.  But the more his boss put off his yearly review, said "we don't give raises", and gave excuses, the more this guy just played Doom all day.  He had no reason not to.  He knew he was being underpaid, he knew that performance didn't really matter.  Then one day he came in and confided with me that he'd gotten another job.  "People here are seriously underpaid.  The difference in salary is going to pay for a new car this year."  He was happy going somewhere else where he would be valued and challenged.  He never looked back, and he never regretted his decision.

People were happy at that company.  Two or three are still working there of the original 10, so clearly, it was a good work environment for them.  Others were happy to leave--they wanted something more.   I think it's ok to try again, to see if something else is better for you.  I worry that clifp is right--now that you know, now that they're giving you excuses, it's going to be hard to enjoy your job the same way.    You seem to have been burned by your experience with your last job.  Doesn't mean your next one can't be better.  I learned a lot from the company I mentioned above--I will never ever work in that kind of an environment again--it didn't work out for me.  But I know how to recognize it.  The question is, how do you formulate questions to answer your concerns about the work environment?  What are you afraid of, how do you recognize it?

AK

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #56 on: January 28, 2015, 08:00:14 PM »
Since I like reading the outcomes in other posts, here's what happened...

This week, we had the 3rd and final negotiation. They promoted me to a Lead role and they increased my Salary to $90 retroactively to when the raise was originally requested. They also reiterated how the company has been unprofitable and after a year in this role they'll see what they can do with Salary. I thought about pushing back but could tell it was not going to happen so I didn't bother.

Others would probably feel ecstatic and honored with the promotion but I feel indifferent, betrayed, and just another "Resource".

From here, the job search continues.... with my first phone interview later this week.

Thank you everyone for the awesome feedback and varying perspectives. I can't express enough how appreciative and grateful I am.

mxt0133

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #57 on: January 28, 2015, 09:12:06 PM »
but I feel indifferent, betrayed, and just another "Resource".

I think the sooner people figure this out the better their careers and jobs will be.  There is a Human Resource department for a reason, it's because that is how most businesses of think of their employees.  It's not a bad or evil thing it's just the necessities of running a business that is not a close family business.  You need to respond and deal with your employers and managers in the same manner.

We just found out that we are being targeted for acquisition and whole office is already talking about layoffs, rightfully so but still to early.  It's just a fact of life for corporate employees/resources in today's business environment where next quarter's numbers are that matters to investor and management.

gluskap

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #58 on: January 28, 2015, 10:25:13 PM »
Get another offer and then you can always go back to your boss and see if they will match it or beat it. You'd be surprised. If you are really as good as you say you are then they will want to keep you.

I was making about 80k similar to you and happy with my job because it wasn't so stressful. But I got calls from recruiters on linked in and was curious what kind of offers I could get. So I did an interview and got an offer for 92k. I didn't really want to leave cuz I knew the new job would be harder and more stressful. I went to my boss with the offer and told them I didn't really want to leave but that I needed to be paid more. They asked me how much I wanted and I didn't want to sound too greedy so I said I would stay for 95k. They gave that to me plus a 5k bonus and replied back by the next day. Now I'm thinking I could have asked for more lol. Since then they have been giving me regular raises and I'm now making 113k. I was like you and had never asked for a raise before. I think if I hadn't gone to them with an offer I would still be making what I did before. They are not going to offer you more than what they need to. I think the idea that I was looking around made them scared to lose me because you don't realize what you have until you think you might lose it. It's much easier to negotiate with another offer in hand. Of course, I knew what I was worth and I knew they wanted to keep me but even so if they had not met or beat the offer I was willing to walk.

jeromedawg

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #59 on: January 28, 2015, 11:49:13 PM »
Hey AK,

Thanks for posting all this - gives me a very insightful perspective. I too am in a similar boat, with friends who have jumped way far ahead of myself (director or super senior positions probably netting at least $150k-$200k at this point in their lives.

In any case it sounds to me like the consensus, if you want a more significant salary increase beyond the standard "3% we'll keep you floating with inflation" fallback, is that you have to interview outside the company to initiate things. I'm in a position where I feel like I may need to do this as well. But first I'd like to discuss the possibility of being promoted to principal or a lead position, which I believe would garner more justification for something along the lines of a 10-15% (or even 20%) increase depending on things. I think my company is fair and I do enjoy working there (after the last couple places I worked at) but I also think that when I came in I undervalued myself. I feel like I've undervalued myself quite a bit for the last couple jobs and I've been working for at least 10 years now.

I'm really not good with negotiations for salary so it's really good to see all the advice here. I'm probably gonna have to re-read through much of it to get a better bearing for myself. The other thing is that I dread interviews, especially after a couple that weren't so great (notably one where I just froze up). It was super-embarrassing and has left a bitter taste in my mouth. I'm happy where I am but there's always that "grass is greener" mentality and all the "what ifs" that start popping up. But based on the last jobs I held before coming back to my current place (my first job was actually at this same company before I left to go onto the last two "grass is greener" jobs). Funny how that all works out but I feel like I really took this place (and my manager) for granted back when I first worked here. Had I waited it out and been more patient at the time, I'm pretty certain I would be making 20-25% more than I am now and likely in a higher position... where the wind blows, I suppose.

Right now I'm still at a crossroads, entertaining the idea of looking for positions and interviewing (for leverage to ask) as well as going for more certifications and a Masters.

I wish you all the best with your current situation and hope you figure something that works out best for you. I think one thing, which isn't a deal-breaker but can be important, is to try not to burn any bridges. In some cases, it's sort of unavoidable. In my case, I kind of indirectly burned bridges with some people by leaving at a time when it was busy (but seriously, when is it EVER a good time to leave a company from their perspective?) as well as responding with "I'd rather not share" when they asked me what company I was headed to next. It's hard because I want to be good with old coworkers but it just doesn't always work out that way.

jzb11

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #60 on: January 29, 2015, 04:13:37 AM »
Hey AK,

I just want to encourage you to not take it personally. I asked for a 10% raise recently and am working as a contractor. The company dicked me around and countered with a 1.5 raise and then a 3% raise. This was in a situation where I held all of the leverage

- I was personally requested by the customer
- The customer is very satisfied by my performance and renewed the contract because of it
- I am the senior most engineer in the company besides the boss
- There are no other qualified resources to take on the role.

Ultimately they capitulated and gave me what I asked for, but it put a bad taste in my mouth.

For me, it was a learning experience because I was a bit naive. I thought it wouldn't be an issue due to the fact that my reasons for asking were fair, the amount was reasonable, and I had a good relationship with all parties involved. Clearly, that wasn't the case.

MrFrugalChicago

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #61 on: January 29, 2015, 07:59:29 AM »
Let this be a lesson. ALWAYS be interviewing.

I interview once a year, even if I am happy with my job. Maybe it ends up with nothing. Maybe I get offered my dream job with a 30% raise (how I got current job). It happens!

But sitting for a few years with no offers.. that is no good. You don't know your true value. Your company doesn't know your true value, etc.

I had to do some job trading, but with it I managed to get from 80k -> 140k as a software dev in 3 years.  Could I have ever got a 60k raise? Hell no.

JLee

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #62 on: January 29, 2015, 08:04:27 AM »
This is an excellent thread. I started as an intern with an IT company at $33k. I got to $57k after 22 months and four promotions - I have learned a lot in the last two years and feel like I am finally getting to the point where I'd be comfortable enough with my skillset to look elsewhere. I am planning on getting my VCP in the next 3 weeks, which should add substantially to my marketability/value, so I am curious to see where I end up by the end of the year!

NewStachian

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #63 on: January 29, 2015, 08:44:23 AM »
AK, you're practically describing exactly what I went through a few weeks ago.

I think you've established some good groundwork. They know what you want and they know that they were unable to give it to you, but bottom line - they know you're not a pushover. I think this sets you up well to shop around. If you get a better offer you can go back to your company and tell them what offers you've received and ask if they can match. I think this will be received better since you were blunt with them up front on what you wanted and they couldn't give it to you. You certainly don't want to be an asshole, but you don't want to let them push you around when it's in their best interest to pay you as little as they can.

At the end of the day you have to be happy with your compensation, and the proof is in the pudding. if you're worth what you're asking for, then someone out there is willing to give it to you. Keep looking until you find it, either at that company or at another.

That being said, your percent gain in salary, although not what you wanted (mine wasn't either), is still a big win. It should be treated as such, but not something that you settle on.

Good luck and keep us updated with your future endeavors!

theonethatgotaway

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #64 on: January 29, 2015, 09:30:55 AM »
If you really really like your job 10k is not worth the fuss. You can make that up elsewhere outside of your day job.

Its best to negotiate raises when you are being promoted. My husband successfully negotiated 20k on his salary a few years ago during a promotion.

People get weird at the 100k mark for some reason. (Hiring managers)

A lot of times people take it personally (well I wasn't earning that much at that age...so why should he...)

Are you easily replaceable? Ask yourself that question. Thats where they are coming from with this.

And yes you are being underpaid and they are losing out on a deal with you asking for more money.

AK

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #65 on: January 29, 2015, 04:20:38 PM »
Wow, the excellent content keeps coming... Where to start...

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If you really really like your job 10k is not worth the fuss. You can make that up elsewhere outside of your day job.

I would've totally agreed with you if the recruiter didn't inform me that my employer is willing to pay a new hire between $75-90. Since many of our new hires have been recent grads or "Junior" devs, I can't help but feel insulted thinking about it every time. Knowing that still rubs me the wrong way even with the promotion and 10K increase in Salary. It's supposed to be just business but my employer is a small company so I have gotten to know everyone pretty well so it feels personal. Too complainypants?

I figure why not get a higher paying position and still moonlight to a faster FIRE...  Now that I've started applying to a few jobs, I'm getting emails and calls back so my outlook looks positive.

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Are you easily replaceable? Ask yourself that question. Thats where they are coming from with this.

I would say no actually BUT we'll find out. I think my novice negotiating skills permeate through easily and they know that. Lesson learned about not accepting the first number they push back with. Definitely have to work on "Nothing is good enough" as someone posted earlier.


Quote
That being said, your percent gain in salary, although not what you wanted (mine wasn't either), is still a big win. It should be treated as such, but not something that you settle on.

Good luck and keep us updated with your future endeavors!

Thanks for the support and continue with the updates.

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Right now I'm still at a crossroads, entertaining the idea of looking for positions and interviewing (for leverage to ask) as well as going for more certifications and a Masters.

I earned my M.B.A at night while working full time. At the time, it seemed like an awesome degree but it didn't seem to help me with Salary. (Could also be from my  poor negotiating skills...). However, I learned a ton of information and helps with the business side of things. My motivation for an M.B.A was it provided other non-technical skills allowing me to transition into a different career if I wanted, allow me to have better odds of starting a successful business, and better promotion / salary potential. I do regret getting student loans to pay for it all though.

My advice is truly think about what you want to do professionally and if the Master's will really help you get there. This, of course, depends. If a certification will help you get there too, start there. It'll probably be cheaper and less time intensive.

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Let this be a lesson. ALWAYS be interviewing.

Very much noted! Other lessons I've learned from this experience..

It's just business and loyalty from either side is superficial at best.

Get better at negotiating. I'll do this by practicing more at markets and reading more about it. This'll be an ongoing endeavor.

When I first started out, I didn't research salaries and definitely started low at $40,000. After working at minimum wage jobs, I thought I was a millionaire. Getting to $90K in almost 8 years is not bad I guess. Let that be a lesson to others as well... Know what the market is willing to pay out of college, what skills are in demand that you like doing, and go from there.

nobody123

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #66 on: January 30, 2015, 12:39:15 PM »

It's just business and loyalty from either side is superficial at best.


+1000.  There is a great scene The Office where Dwight says:

Would I ever leave this company? Look, Im all about loyalty. In fact, I feel like part of what Im being paid for here is my loyalty. But if there were somewhere else that valued loyalty more highly Im going wherever they value loyalty the most.

MrFrugalChicago

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #67 on: January 30, 2015, 03:03:24 PM »

Get better at negotiating. I'll do this by practicing more at markets and reading more about it. This'll be an ongoing endeavor.


Negotiating is hard. I hate it. Needed to buy some furniture recently. Sent my wife with instructions I wouldn't pay more than X for a dresser where X was retail price / 2. She doesn't like it either but can stick to a script. She comes home a few hours with a big smile, and she managed to pull it off with the husband card.

The key to negotiating I think is to realize both sides can be happy. You aren't trying to screw them. You think you are worth more, and do good work. If you can't settle on a price that is fair to both sides, then that is that.

I need to get better at this also though, harder to send my wife for a job negotiation haha.

AK

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #68 on: January 30, 2015, 05:18:03 PM »
Quote
... Harder to send my wife to a job negotiation haha

That actually made me lol. Sounds like I could take some tips from her too.

It seems that I'm at least marketable because I have another phone interview Monday at a different company...

trishume

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #69 on: January 30, 2015, 06:45:18 PM »
I don't have as much to add as some of these battle hardened career pros (I'm just a first year CS student) but I would like to add that I wouldn't worry too much about the fact that you like your current job a lot. I'm sure you will probably be able to find another job at a company that is just as great, software is an awesome industry filled with cool and intelligent people.

All 3 companies I've worked for have been full of great people doing interesting things, but each time I moved I've found that the next company is even better than the previous.

Another piece of advice I haven't seen here is to try exploring some of the more SE-specific avenues of getting hired. Look on meetup.com for your city and maybe attend a few programmer meetups, not only are they a good way to get hired but they are a good way to get a feel for the different companies in your area. As a bonus, most of the Meetups are hosted by cool companies that donate their space because they are trying to suss out local programmers. I was an active member of my local Ruby group and there were constantly companies looking for new hires.

Also consider creating a Github profile and contributing to some open source projects, lots of the newer cooler companies really like to see them. Plus it's a fun hobby and there are so many interesting things to work on out there.

The market is good for software engineers these days, and you seem like you should be an attractive hire given that you have full stack web experience!
« Last Edit: January 30, 2015, 06:50:12 PM by trishume »

AK

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #70 on: January 30, 2015, 08:07:54 PM »
I'll checkout meetup.com. Thanks for the tip.

theonethatgotaway

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #71 on: February 01, 2015, 01:16:26 PM »
All 3 companies I've worked for have been full of great people doing interesting things, but each time I moved I've found that the next company is even better than the previous.


That is because you are 22, give it 10 years.

chopper41

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #72 on: February 01, 2015, 05:33:58 PM »
AK,

I'm happy to read that you're interviewing.  Now, only the sky is the limit.  Good on you!

AK

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #73 on: February 07, 2015, 08:24:31 PM »
Another quick update...  Thursday involved having 2 phone interviews, an initial screening with an executive Vice President for a consulting firm in Florida and a follow-up with a technical lead at another consulting firm in NYC. On Friday, the recruiter called me back and said the NYC firm wants to bring me onsite for an interview on Thursday, so that's where I'm headed. things are looking good...

To be honest, I didn't expect things to be moving so fast. Now, I'm actually considering that if the company is a good fit and presents a good offer and my current employer counters with the same offer, would I stay.... Probably not but having mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, I still feel insulted and exploited but on the other hand, i am still content at my job and have not let my performance suffer too much. One concern is if I stay, will future raises and promotions be harder and will I be treated differently? In the past, I always moved on even after my employer wanted me to stay but we'll see. Hopefully, that doesn't sound too contradictory to my earlier posts.

What do you guys think?

mozar

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #74 on: February 07, 2015, 09:26:15 PM »
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will future raises and promotions be harder and will I be treated differently?

the answer is yes

mxt0133

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #75 on: February 07, 2015, 10:04:52 PM »
On the one hand, I still feel insulted and exploited but on the other hand, i am still content at my job and have not let my performance suffer too much.

...

What do you guys think?

Move on.  Unless you can truly put it behind you and focus on your end goal.  Every time you need to put in 110% you will have this chip on your shoulder or when things get difficult and you don't trust your manager or company and vice versa it's not going to be a fun situation.

And you'll be in this same position again in about two to three years.

clifp

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #76 on: February 07, 2015, 11:34:12 PM »
Quote
will future raises and promotions be harder and will I be treated differently?

the answer is yes

For raise I completely agree. For promotions maybe not.  If they are pay 110,000 to other supervisor/managers/technical leads or whatever they call the next rung up the chain, I don't think making $110K now would be a hindrance to getting the title and added responsibility (be careful what you wish for).  It may even be help.  But I would expect you to get a promotion and fairly minimal raise.

Still I wouldn't sweat that too much.  Given my choice between making $90k with prospect of getting 8% raises and 110K and 3% raises, it takes a long long time to catch up.

chopper41

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #77 on: February 13, 2015, 05:31:33 AM »
I would move on.

Any new updates?

mbl

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #78 on: February 13, 2015, 06:50:51 AM »
So I had a follow-up meeting about my Salary request today with the head of HR, my boss, and the CEO / owner. It started out with them explaining that the past 2 years have not been profitable because they were investing in the company and so forth. They asked me if I had started searching elsewhere and that they'd hate to lose me. I mentioned that no I'm not searching but I like to keep my options open. I also mentioned that I love working here and am willing to negotiate. I then asked if we could meet in the middle at $95,000 with another week's vacation and the owner said they'd have to go back and discuss it further.

The owner then asked if I'm looking to take on more responsibilities like managing others and doing more architecture / senior level responsibilities. I responded that yes and I would like to and that I feel I already am doing that. She mentioned that with a promotion they can have better options with pay there. Where we left off is that we're going to meet again when I get back from vacation and that they'll increase my pay to 85 for now.

My initial thoughts on this are

1) They don't obviously value me as much as I think I'm worth. Otherwise, this would be a non-issue and I would've gotten the raise already.
2) It's highly unlikely now that I'll get anywhere near $100,000 since of the meet in the middle tactic.
3) I'm going to start searching more heavily now?
4) I really don't want to leave because I'm very happy here. I have mixed feeling about this. Obviously, I have to watch out for numero uno but things are good.

What would you do? I'm guessing most people would say time to move on.

I'm also in Western NY and want to ask what your research has shown for salary "range" for your level of experience and number of years in the industry?

mbl

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #79 on: February 13, 2015, 07:00:30 AM »
Another quick update...  Thursday involved having 2 phone interviews, an initial screening with an executive Vice President for a consulting firm in Florida and a follow-up with a technical lead at another consulting firm in NYC. On Friday, the recruiter called me back and said the NYC firm wants to bring me onsite for an interview on Thursday, so that's where I'm headed. things are looking good...

To be honest, I didn't expect things to be moving so fast. Now, I'm actually considering that if the company is a good fit and presents a good offer and my current employer counters with the same offer, would I stay.... Probably not but having mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, I still feel insulted and exploited but on the other hand, i am still content at my job and have not let my performance suffer too much. One concern is if I stay, will future raises and promotions be harder and will I be treated differently? In the past, I always moved on even after my employer wanted me to stay but we'll see. Hopefully, that doesn't sound too contradictory to my earlier posts.

What do you guys think?

Insulted and exploited?   No one is exploiting you unless you allow it.    Salary is based on what one individual entity is willing to pay for that one job at the one entity.   And, as someone else here has said, it typically is more difficult to get a large increase once you're in a company. 

 
Make certain to adequately compare any offers for salary, health insurance costs(do they offer HDHPs with HSA), 401(k)/profit sharing, vesting schedule,  LTD, vacation,  sick days,  tuition reimbursement(if applicable).
Also, find out the last time they laid off employees.  How volatile is their business?

P.S.  Is it possible for your wife to work full-time?

jeromedawg

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #80 on: February 13, 2015, 04:01:55 PM »
Another quick update...  Thursday involved having 2 phone interviews, an initial screening with an executive Vice President for a consulting firm in Florida and a follow-up with a technical lead at another consulting firm in NYC. On Friday, the recruiter called me back and said the NYC firm wants to bring me onsite for an interview on Thursday, so that's where I'm headed. things are looking good...

To be honest, I didn't expect things to be moving so fast. Now, I'm actually considering that if the company is a good fit and presents a good offer and my current employer counters with the same offer, would I stay.... Probably not but having mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, I still feel insulted and exploited but on the other hand, i am still content at my job and have not let my performance suffer too much. One concern is if I stay, will future raises and promotions be harder and will I be treated differently? In the past, I always moved on even after my employer wanted me to stay but we'll see. Hopefully, that doesn't sound too contradictory to my earlier posts.

What do you guys think?


I think it's likely better to move on given the circumstances - I think there's a higher chance future raises and or promotions will be difficult. It all really depends on your relationship(s) with the higher-ups at your current place. If you're on really great terms (to the point where you can talk about this stuff flat out openly without worrying) the chances are higher that they'll treat you favorably. But if they look at you and treat you strictly as either an asset or liability in terms of performance, and if there's not much of a personal relationship behind it, I think people can get all butt-hurt and resort to becoming all political and recommending against raises/promotions (if not your manager than someone else who either knows about your situation directly or indirectly).
« Last Edit: February 13, 2015, 04:05:01 PM by jplee3 »

mm1970

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #81 on: February 13, 2015, 04:37:46 PM »

Get better at negotiating. I'll do this by practicing more at markets and reading more about it. This'll be an ongoing endeavor.


Negotiating is hard. I hate it. Needed to buy some furniture recently. Sent my wife with instructions I wouldn't pay more than X for a dresser where X was retail price / 2. She doesn't like it either but can stick to a script. She comes home a few hours with a big smile, and she managed to pull it off with the husband card.

The key to negotiating I think is to realize both sides can be happy. You aren't trying to screw them. You think you are worth more, and do good work. If you can't settle on a price that is fair to both sides, then that is that.

I need to get better at this also though, harder to send my wife for a job negotiation haha.
ha I've been really successful in setting up my husband to get raises, but not for myself.  Ah well, at this point, with two little kids, I have to be realistic.  If a new job comes with a big raise and 10 extra hours a week, it ain't happening.

mm1970

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #82 on: February 13, 2015, 05:02:56 PM »
Another quick update...  Thursday involved having 2 phone interviews, an initial screening with an executive Vice President for a consulting firm in Florida and a follow-up with a technical lead at another consulting firm in NYC. On Friday, the recruiter called me back and said the NYC firm wants to bring me onsite for an interview on Thursday, so that's where I'm headed. things are looking good...

To be honest, I didn't expect things to be moving so fast. Now, I'm actually considering that if the company is a good fit and presents a good offer and my current employer counters with the same offer, would I stay.... Probably not but having mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, I still feel insulted and exploited but on the other hand, i am still content at my job and have not let my performance suffer too much. One concern is if I stay, will future raises and promotions be harder and will I be treated differently? In the past, I always moved on even after my employer wanted me to stay but we'll see. Hopefully, that doesn't sound too contradictory to my earlier posts.

What do you guys think?
It's so hard to not take it personally.

you work so hard and get treated this way.  So your company doesn't "value" you and will give money to people coming in, because they have to.  It SEEMS personal to you, but really, it's business.  They don't have to pay you, so they don't.  It's not that they don't like you.  They want to keep the best people they can for the least amount of money.

So don't get your feelings hurt, and don't let it affect you negatively.  In your situation, I would leave.  If I get to the point where I'm actually interviewing?  I'm out the door (had an interview last summer, took 3 days off for the prep and the interview, didn't get the job.  If I had, I'd have been gone.)  BUT BUT BUT I don't want to burn bridges, or say "FU FOR NOT VALUING ME!!" 


AK

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #83 on: February 14, 2015, 01:28:10 AM »
Thursday was interesting... 3 interviews from 10 am - 12 with the heads of different depts. Even though I've interviewed numerous times at different companies and have interviewed numerous candidates, I was nervous going into it. A decent amount of anxiety was from having a 6 am flight where boarding begins at 5:20 and being a zombie during the interview and also getting to their office on time. The flight arrived around 8 and then I grabbed a taxi to midtown. That took 90 minutes from JFK. With 30 minutes until the interview, I hung out at dunkin for a little while and then headed over.

After sitting down with the first guy, I calmed right down because he was an easy going guy and it was a relaxed conversation. We talked about my experiences with Salesforce, how I've lead different projects, why I'm looking for other opportunities, and other things. This was only suppose to take 40 minutes but took 60 instead. Usually, I take that as a good sign.

The next guy was a functional manager who has been with the company for a couple years. This was more of a pm type interview asking things like how would I do this and that with clients. Another easy going straight answering type of guy like me so this was comfortable too. He was working from home because his son wasn't feeling well. I asked him how they felt about remote employees and he said that they already have some and it works out well. lastly, he mentions that the next guy is going to drill me hard with tech questions so I'm like ok.

The last guy was polite but serious. We talked about my experiences, tech skills, responsibilities I'd take on, various Salesforce platform things and other stuff. I thought he was going to ask me puzzle questions like given a 5 gallon and 3 gallon bucket, how do you get 4 gallons ? Not a big fan of those. We kept it higher level and I think chatting about the different things I've done demonstrated that I knew the platform enough that he didn't have to ask me more pointed questions. At the end, I said I'd love to work here and where do we go from here. He mentioned they'll talk internally and get back to me soon by Friday or early next week. I left around 12:30

After meeting with them, I'm really excited about working there. They seem like the work hard play hard type like me. They strive for 40 hour weeks and professional development for employees.

Friday, the recruiter calls and says all 3 thought I did great and that I'd be a good fit. She expects me to have either 1 more interview with the founders or to get an offer this week. She then asks if they do give me an offer and my company counters, what I'll do. I'm candid with her and say I'll probably leave but have mixed feelings about it. Of course, she points out the various things others have mentioned here and the different risks that happen down the line. Bottom line, things are looking good..

AK

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #84 on: February 14, 2015, 02:00:59 AM »
MBL,

For me, it's hard not to take it personally. I know it's just business but my employer is small and the employees are pretty close with each other. I've worked for corporations where I was just an asset / liability and this is not like that to that extent.

Based on my research, a senior software engineer with similar qualifications to mine would expect a salary in the low 100s and a total compensation package with medical, PTO, LTD, and other benefits for a job in wny. Of course, your mileage will vary.

You're absolutely correct to compare total compensation packages. Also, I want to know what the culture is like, growth prospects, expected workload, travel requirements, flexibility and other things. The NYC firm meets all my criteria so far and hopefully I'll get an offer soon to compare compensation packages. The recruiter says I should expect a salary offer around 120 with a 10% annual bonus plus benefits. For a working from home job with minimal travel requirements, that is acceptable for me.

My wife does work full time in education which is a perfect fit for where she wants to be. She could earn more elsewhere but she's happy so that's all that matters to me.

mm1970

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #85 on: February 14, 2015, 11:27:51 AM »
MBL,

For me, it's hard not to take it personally. I know it's just business but my employer is small and the employees are pretty close with each other. I've worked for corporations where I was just an asset / liability and this is not like that to that extent.

Based on my research, a senior software engineer with similar qualifications to mine would expect a salary in the low 100s and a total compensation package with medical, PTO, LTD, and other benefits for a job in wny. Of course, your mileage will vary.

You're absolutely correct to compare total compensation packages. Also, I want to know what the culture is like, growth prospects, expected workload, travel requirements, flexibility and other things. The NYC firm meets all my criteria so far and hopefully I'll get an offer soon to compare compensation packages. The recruiter says I should expect a salary offer around 120 with a 10% annual bonus plus benefits. For a working from home job with minimal travel requirements, that is acceptable for me.

My wife does work full time in education which is a perfect fit for where she wants to be. She could earn more elsewhere but she's happy so that's all that matters to me.
soo hard to not take it personally.  I am very bad at this.

I am a senior semiconductor engineer.  We have hired four other senior engineers in the last 4 years.

Two (men) have been next to useless and I've had to train them.  They each are paid about $30k to $40k more than me. 

Two (women) were great with specific experience that we needed.  They made $12k to $20k more than me.  Less than the men.  One quit and the other got laid off.  (How the other two did not get laid off is a complete mystery.  No, it's not, they suck up to the right people.)

So yes, I am personally offended that the President, whom I've known for 15 years, can blatantly play this game.

ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #86 on: February 14, 2015, 11:32:47 AM »
It frustrates me that I'm training a guy who makes more than me because he's located in the Bay Area. Nothing against him, it just provides our global clients no extra value to have this guy live in California versus the low COL area where I live. But big companies have their structures.

AK

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #87 on: February 14, 2015, 02:11:11 PM »
Quote
I am a senior semiconductor engineer.  We have hired four other senior engineers in the last 4 years.

Two (men) have been next to useless and I've had to train them.  They each are paid about $30k to $40k more than me. 

Two (women) were great with specific experience that we needed.  They made $12k to $20k more than me.  Less than the men.  One quit and the other got laid off.  (How the other two did not get laid off is a complete mystery.  No, it's not, they suck up to the right people.)

So yes, I am personally offended that the President, whom I've known for 15 years, can blatantly play this game.

I absolutely wish engineering wasn't mostly men. All the women engineers I've known were so talented and always brought a much needed different perspective to the problems, discussions and company overall. Different strokes for different folks I guess...

It sounds like you are feeling exploited as well. Have you sought out getting a raise that's, at least, on par to these hires? Since they've kept you around, I imagine you're a very valuable employee. Is getting another job as a senior semiconductor engineer easily done? Money is certainly not everything. I still have mixed feelings about leaving my current employer. Other than the salary, I really like working there so if that's why you're staying, I totally understand. Besides the salary, another motivator for me is that my wife is expecting with our first. Subconsciously, I think this has driven me more to seek out to be a better provider. I guess it's called "provider panic".

In any event, good luck in whatever decisions and path you choose. I appreciate all the feedback you and the rest of the community have given.

Quote
It frustrates me that I'm training a guy who makes more than me because he's located in the Bay Area. Nothing against him, it just provides our global clients no extra value to have this guy live in California versus the low COL area where I live. But big companies have their structures.

I'm in a semi-low COL area so getting a remote job in a HCOL area is to my advantage. Is this something that you can possibly pursue?

ender

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #88 on: February 14, 2015, 03:18:10 PM »
but I feel indifferent, betrayed, and just another "Resource".

I think the sooner people figure this out the better their careers and jobs will be.  There is a Human Resource department for a reason, it's because that is how most businesses of think of their employees.  It's not a bad or evil thing it's just the necessities of running a business that is not a close family business.  You need to respond and deal with your employers and managers in the same manner.

We just found out that we are being targeted for acquisition and whole office is already talking about layoffs, rightfully so but still to early.  It's just a fact of life for corporate employees/resources in today's business environment where next quarter's numbers are that matters to investor and management.

I actually take a lot of comfort knowing that ultimately, no matter how much my boss "likes me" or otherwise my company sees me as a cog. It means our relationship is strictly business and only as long as it is in our best interests - the company and mine.

mm1970

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #89 on: February 14, 2015, 03:42:41 PM »
Quote
It sounds like you are feeling exploited as well. Have you sought out getting a raise that's, at least, on par to these hires? Since they've kept you around, I imagine you're a very valuable employee. Is getting another job as a senior semiconductor engineer easily done? Money is certainly not everything. I still have mixed feelings about leaving my current employer. Other than the salary, I really like working there so if that's why you're staying, I totally understand. Besides the salary, another motivator for me is that my wife is expecting with our first. Subconsciously, I think this has driven me more to seek out to be a better provider. I guess it's called "provider panic".

Yeah - so I've tried to get a raise, and no go.  We are a startup, and we are always low on cash.  So it's a hard sell, and I hear "well, you have STOCK!"  Uh huh, and I'm fully vested, I can exercise and leave.

I live in a small town, with not a lot of options.  I have dipped my toe into the job hunt, and had a couple of interviews.  One place was super scary.  The other place was awesome, but they ended up not filling the position that I interviewed for.

My problem is, somewhat, that I am picky. 
1.  I can't move.  My husband makes more money, his job is primary.
2.  I'm not willing to increase my work hours to a ridiculous amount.  I work about 40 now.  I have two kids, almost 9 and 2.5, and well, working FT with them sucks - I'm not going to make it worse.
3.  I want the job to be interesting.

So, I go along with the idea that if it feels right, I'll send my resume and interview.  For the job that I really wanted, though, I took 3 days off work - one to prep for a presentation (while my husband was out of town), one to practice it, and a full 8 hour interview day.  With two kids, I don't have a lot of spare PTO so using that and not getting the job really hurt.

It really sucks about not being many women in engineering.  There were several senior female engineers, then we got a new (awful) VP boss, and man, I'd never ever felt the glass ceiling so hard.  Even the guy who got the (my) promotion to engineering manager said "your problem was being born a woman".  (Really, my problem was the new boss, the old boss was going to promote me and when he transferred, he recommended me for the position.)

BUT, those things are out of my control and fighting for them and stewing about it will do me no good, so I transferred to a new position where I am learning new things and I'm pretty independent.  And I work my 40 and go home to my family.

mm1970

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #90 on: February 14, 2015, 04:35:34 PM »
Even the guy who got the (my) promotion to engineering manager said "your problem was being born a woman".

Holy shit. That sounds like a workplace from hell.

People are explicitly saying this and you haven't filed a lawsuit yet?

Even if the person had no power over you, at the very least it's evidence of a hostile workplace.

Comments like that, and the accompanying things you have described, have no place in a civilised society. You should seriously consider having recourse to the legal system.
Yeah, it's for sure hostile.  He wasn't trying to be mean - truly, as the eng manager now, he still probably makes less than me (but he should, he's 12 years junior).  When the position opened up it was clear that I was not being considered, though they paid lip service to the fact that I was.  I opted not to play the game (the "game" was the VP insisting that we both be in by 7:45 am for an 8 am meeting and stay at least until 6:45 pm to attend a 6 pm meeting.  He toed the line, and ONE YEAR after the job opened, he got it.  In that year I switched bosses and lost 26 pounds).

It's hostile to almost everyone though, not just women.  The people in power insist there isn't an issue.  Everyone else sees it, but we have no power.

nobody123

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #91 on: February 14, 2015, 06:37:00 PM »
I opted not to play the game (the "game" was the VP insisting that we both be in by 7:45 am for an 8 am meeting and stay at least until 6:45 pm to attend a 6 pm meeting.  He toed the line, and ONE YEAR after the job opened, he got it.  In that year I switched bosses and lost 26 pounds).

So the new boss explicitly told you his expectations as far as office hours when meetings were scheduled, you refused to abide by them because of your reasons, and you're surprised / disappointed that the guy who did what he was told got the promotion instead of you?   Seriously?

mm1970

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #92 on: February 14, 2015, 08:54:16 PM »
I opted not to play the game (the "game" was the VP insisting that we both be in by 7:45 am for an 8 am meeting and stay at least until 6:45 pm to attend a 6 pm meeting.  He toed the line, and ONE YEAR after the job opened, he got it.  In that year I switched bosses and lost 26 pounds).

So the new boss explicitly told you his expectations as far as office hours when meetings were scheduled, you refused to abide by them because of your reasons, and you're surprised / disappointed that the guy who did what he was told got the promotion instead of you?   Seriously?
He did not specifically say "this is what is expected to get the job".  But he did have meetings with us (separately) to say "we will just have to see  how the engineering manager thing pans out, for now I am going to do the job".

Except I'd been doing the job.  And - well, he didn't start doing the job.  At all.  So, the other guy and I just kept doing what we were doing, and ... let's just say that I did not see eye to eye with the VP.  He was making decisions on no data (because, well, he wasn't doing the job).  He let our senior engineer quit and two weeks later said "what do you mean she developed A, B, and C and did X, Y, and Z??  I didn't know she did all that??"

That's just a sampling.  But with that, and a few other things, it was clear that I was not getting the job (trust me, you just ... know).

It was after that when the "extra" meetings started.  Pretty sure my office mate spent 6 months going to these "necessary" meetings (he was pretty exhausted, and most of them were entirely unnecessary, and yes, was he bitter!).  The two of us actually did a darn good job running the group and fixing the problems (together) because, you know, we aren't a-holes and we wanted the company to succeed.  I just ran things in the background and let him be the "meeting guy".  Which, you know, women do all the time.

I'm pretty glad that I realized straight up that I wasn't getting the job - there is no way I was going to play that "game", and believe me, it was a game.  When the guy on the way out says "she's been basically doing the job already, she's the best person for the job" and it doesn't happen?  Well.  I'm no dummy.  When we were larger, (before the first layoff) I managed a group larger than the one he has now.

Hey, when our company folds, at least my friend will have had the title.  Help him going forward. 

nobody123

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #93 on: February 15, 2015, 07:33:15 AM »
That sounds like a similar situation that I was in.  My boss left our group, I was (in my mind) the obvious backfill, and wasn't immediately promoted.  Talked to his old boss / my new boss to find out what his plans were for the vacant position; he said he was going to wait as long as a year to see if he would fill it.  I asked what I needed to demonstrate to him to get the promotion, and he wouldn't provide an answer.  I had a follow-up meeting a week later and asked again about what he wanted to see, and he still didn't answer.  He then came to me about a week later and essentially "offered" me my current position framed as a new role (It wasn't.  It was obvious the guy had no clue about what I'd been doing for the past 3 years, or didn't care.).  The related personnel moves to that "offer" let me figure out who he was trying to hold the position open for (it was someone 2 titles below the opening).  The way the guy operated, I would be doing the work that my old boss was doing without the increase in title / pay, plus my current job, and would ultimately be leap-frogged by his chosen one.  I went home, told my wife I was going to change jobs, and she was on board with it.  I let it be known to other powers that be that I was going to leave based on the current situation, and they transferred me to another group within the same company with a with a promotion & pay bump.  Turns out I was valued enough by other folks in the building that they didn't want to lose me, so a position got created.  I've been subsequently promoted two times, so shaking things up a bit doesn't seem to have hurt my standing within the company.

I guess the moral of the story is, if you think you're getting shat on, you probably are.

AK

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #94 on: February 17, 2015, 10:17:10 PM »
Mm1970, good for you on not dwelling on things. That's one skill I've definitely improved on a lot in the last couple years despite this thread stating otherwise. As a result I find myself happier and others seem to be happier to be around too.

Good news to report... The company in NYC offered me a $114K base + 10% annual bonus + benefits that are better than my current employer + I get to work from home. The culture is right up my alley and would be using tech I like and they are in the financial industry. All things important to me. Another perk is that they're willing to pay for me to get the salesforce technical architect certification and if I get it, they'll bump my salary by 5,000 and give me a 4,000 bonus. I definitely plan on getting that in writing...

Before I accept I told the recruiter I have to talk to my wife first. I'm so glad I did. Her biggest concern is medical coverage. The company does offer medical but would her OB accept that coverage? I said I'll find out. She definitely had concerns. Another was are you sure this is legit because it sounds too good to be true. I had to explain to her that there's a shortage of skilled IT professionals and if you have those skills, companies will fight for you. With a baby on the way, she's definitely thinking about security related aspects and long-term care. Definitely a different perspective. Since I'm not dwelling on things, I told her if she wants me to stay at my current employer, I would if that would keep her happy.

What's a bit unsettling is that I feel like I should be excited about this new opportunity but I kinda feel numb to it. In the past I couldn't wait to change jobs but that's not the case here. I feel more scared than anything. Fear of the unknown is the closest way to explain it. Fear of screwing up a good thing / fear of the new job not being greener on the other side. Maybe it's me just over analyzing it like I usually do. Anyone else feel like this ever?

FIreDrill

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #95 on: February 17, 2015, 11:59:19 PM »
Congrats on the job offer!

mxt0133

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #96 on: February 18, 2015, 04:06:06 AM »
What's a bit unsettling is that I feel like I should be excited about this new opportunity but I kinda feel numb to it. In the past I couldn't wait to change jobs but that's not the case here. I feel more scared than anything. Fear of the unknown is the closest way to explain it. Fear of screwing up a good thing / fear of the new job not being greener on the other side. Maybe it's me just over analyzing it like I usually do. Anyone else feel like this ever?

The fear is understandable given that you now have people that are dependent on you.  Before if you screwed up it was just you who is impacted but now it's your family.  It's natural and to be expected.  If you make the best decision you can with the information you have at the time then no matter how it turns out you really can't beat yourself up if it doesn't go according to plan.  Just learn from it and move on.

As for the job itself, you said that it's in finance so it doesn't seem to good to be true.  If you stay there a couple of more year expect your salary to increase significantly.  The thing about finance is it's pretty volatile so layoff every 5-7 years are not uncommon.  Hedgefunds and the big institutions are notorious for overpaying and cutting their loses at the first sign of a down turn.  The thing is when someone loosing money on a trade there is always someone on the other side making money.  So when others are laying off, some are looking to poach good talent from their competitors.  If you keep you skills up to date and know what your market rate it, you should be fine.

I don't know what your FIRE goals are but don't fall into the high salary, live it up pace of the financial industry.  Bank your increase and it will get you to FI faster and put you in a really strong position to be selective of where and who you work for.  You will feel really out of place as a Mustachian in that world but its just noise, don't let it distract you from your goals.

Oh yeah, one more thing take the job!  Good luck.  You can feel excited about the number of years that you shave off your FI date with your new salary.




AK

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #97 on: February 18, 2015, 04:56:34 PM »
I verbally accepted the job today.

My FIRE goal is 10 years or less from now and I'm about 10% of the way there. Can't wait to save even more and max out the hsa, iras, and 401k for the first time. Trying to find other tax advantaged investments now... Thinking about real estate...

caliq

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #98 on: February 18, 2015, 05:01:00 PM »
I verbally accepted the job today.

My FIRE goal is 10 years or less from now and I'm about 10% of the way there. Can't wait to save even more and max out the hsa, iras, and 401k for the first time. Trying to find other tax advantaged investments now... Thinking about real estate...

Congrats!

JLee

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Re: Software Engineer Seeks Feedback on Asking For Raise
« Reply #99 on: February 18, 2015, 05:05:10 PM »
I verbally accepted the job today.

My FIRE goal is 10 years or less from now and I'm about 10% of the way there. Can't wait to save even more and max out the hsa, iras, and 401k for the first time. Trying to find other tax advantaged investments now... Thinking about real estate...

Congratulations!!