Author Topic: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...  (Read 4699 times)

youngwildandfree

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So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« on: August 04, 2021, 03:40:53 PM »
I'm sure I could do a search, and I've read the MMM post about it, but hoping to get more personal feedback for my situation and the current market.

1) Our family needs a new commuter car. I'm certain this is a need, not a want. We have one old truck that my spouse drives to work every day. I'm currently borrowing a car from a family member, and it's not for sale. 

2) My commute is about 25 miles one way on highways. I know. The job is worth it though. I'm planning a pitch to WFH 1-2 days a week.

3) The used car market in our area is insane!! People want 5K for junk with 200K miles on it.

So talk to me about Tesla. At first glance, it seems to be more economical than a lot of the other options, but I'm afraid I'm looking to justify a spendypants purchase. I love the idea of a newer car that could play audiobooks on my long commute and have maps built in so I'm not mounting my phone to the dash. I've never bought a car from a dealership in my life. No idea what I'm doing...

Life situation: No debt other than the mortgage. >500K Net Worth. Early 30s. Solid jobs. No kids.

CNM

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2021, 03:45:20 PM »
Why a tesla and not something else?  My sister bought a used Chevy Volt a couple of years ago and likes it. I think it cost her $12K and a quick google shows like they're selling in around this range, maybe more like $15K.  A used Tesla goes for twice that.  Not sure what you are seeing that makes Tesla a more economical choice than another 100% electric or hybrid option.

yachi

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2021, 03:59:11 PM »
Let me introduce you to Android Auto and Apple CarPlay.  This connects your phone to a larger display in your car, so your maps are always up to date (unlike old in-car GPS).
https://www.crutchfield.com/g_462350/Apple-CarPlay-Compatible-Receivers.html?tp=72357&fa=1#&nvpair=AG_Android_Control|FFAndroid_Auto

youngwildandfree

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2021, 04:02:59 PM »
Why a Tesla?

1) I’m drawn to the safety hype they are getting. Driving scares me a little…and I would feel better being in something as safe as is reasonable.

2) It’s new and flashy and cool.

3) The self driving support sounds amazing and seems like something more commuting should move to long term.

youngwildandfree

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2021, 04:05:14 PM »
Let me introduce you to Android Auto and Apple CarPlay.  This connects your phone to a larger display in your car, so your maps are always up to date (unlike old in-car GPS).
https://www.crutchfield.com/g_462350/Apple-CarPlay-Compatible-Receivers.html?tp=72357&fa=1#&nvpair=AG_Android_Control|FFAndroid_Auto

This is cool! Thanks!

omachi

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2021, 04:39:35 PM »
How'd you jump straight from needing a car to luxury vehicle/status symbol?

Why a Tesla and not something like a Leaf if you want to go electric? Even if your commute is 50 miles round trip, first gen Leafs (2011-2016) could do more than that, 73-107 miles depending on year and battery. Second gen are all over 150 miles. You can find nice examples of the first gen for $11-20k. Certainly cheaper than a Tesla. Bonus points if you can charge it at work.

If not electric, why not something like a Honda Fit or Ford Fiesta? Fine examples of those are available for $10k or less. What's a Model 3 cost these days, anyway, $40k? How much is showing off worth to you?

And Tesla still requires you to be available to take control at any time, despite what they call their driving assists. If you're actually concerned about safety, you don't want to be supervising it's "autonomous" driving should something go wrong. You can actually pay attention when you're the one driving, because it requires your inputs. You're not wired to pay as close attention to a car driving for you that you may have to step in for, certainly not for long periods.

2sk22

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2021, 04:43:00 PM »
I really wanted an electric car but I ultimately wound up buying a Honda CR-V a couple months ago for several reasons:
- Although their technology is excellent, I'm not happy with the build quality of Tesla
- Ride quality was really bad in the one time I have been in a Tesla (which would be really bad in a commuter car)
- Parts availability is really bad
- They don't have spare tires and have very large wheels with small side walls.

The Hyundai Ioniq 5 and the the VW ID.4 look very promising but both cars are very new and I'm not an ultra-early adopter. If you need a good commuter car, just get a Prius and be done with it.

2sk22

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2021, 04:46:16 PM »
And Tesla still requires you to be available to take control at any time, despite what they call their driving assists. If you're actually concerned about safety, you don't want to be supervising it's "autonomous" driving should something go wrong. You can actually pay attention when you're the one driving, because it requires your inputs. You're not wired to pay as close attention to a car driving for you that you may have to step in for, certainly not for long periods.

No kidding - take a look at this recent video of FSD in operation. As I have worked in machine learning for much of my career, I am not all that impressed. I still think that they have a lot of hard problems to solve - the long tail is so long that its going to be in beta forever.

youngwildandfree

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2021, 05:01:05 PM »
All this feedback is really great.

RE status symbol…I really don’t think that’s what’s happening here. Nobody gives a shit what I drive. I like new tech, so that’s the biggest draw from a personal perspective. Absolutely understand it would not drive itself.

I had thought about a Prius. I really haven’t ever had a newer car, so it’s hard to even think though all the options. How does a Prius compare for longer road trips? I need a newer car, but it would also be the car we would take to the beach/mountains/to see family in other states.

Paper Chaser

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2021, 05:11:26 PM »
There are tons of EVs and plug-in hybrids that would be a good fit for you without paying Tesla prices.
Chevy Bolt, Chevy Volt, Hyundai Kona, Hyundai Ioniq, Toyota Prius Prime, Ford Fusion Energi, Ford C-Max Energi, Nissan Leaf, etc.

omachi

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2021, 05:35:11 PM »
If you understand it isn't going to drive itself, I'm honestly curious what is it you think you get with a Telsa that's new tech that you can't find elsewhere? Tesla started delivering cars over a decade ago and were new tech then. Electric cars aren't uncommon anymore. Hybrids are everywhere. Adaptive cruise, lane keeping, and all sorts of other assists and nannies can be found in many other cars if that's your thing.

If you're traveling to other states and aren't on the east coast where they're all crammed together, you might really want to consider if full electric is right for you. Supercharger network does seem robust, but you're going to be spending time waiting on it, unlike filling a gas tank. Prius, Volt, or other hybrid would be best for mileage. Or pick a gas hatchback for hauling, minimal depreciation, and no worries about replacing a battery pack. Plenty of them used and won't break the bank, despite being more highly priced than you'd like.

If nobody cares what you drive, yourself included, then just meet your needs there and get your tech fix elsewhere. Buy the Pixel 6 or iPhone whatever when it next comes out, a cool head unit for the new ride that connects to it, a drone and camera to capture your driving, a scalped GTX 3090 to process the video, and still pocket $15-20k compared to a new Model 3, all while slaking your thirst for new tech.

MayDay

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2021, 05:51:03 PM »
I "had" to buy a new to me car last summer pretty suddenly and got a hybrid. I literally care nothing about cars. But clearly not nothing because a tiny part of me wishes I had gotten a Tesla. They are just so fun/cool/idk what..... And again this is coming from a non car person who hates Elon musk.

So...... Yah. Idk. They are pretty cool. You probably shouldn't buy one. But I still kind of want one.

gooki

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2021, 08:58:12 PM »
Go for it.

PS the Leaf just got a price drop and qualifies for the tax credit.

AccidentialMustache

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2021, 10:02:43 PM »
We hit the point we needed two cars, at least for the middle term (3-8 years). Being able to get a rental is unreliable where we are even before covid. Older parents mean we need to be able to go visit with little to no warning. Whoever is in town needs a car either for getting DS to school (if weather is bad and we can't bike) or to soccer practice/games (if weather is good). We do expect to go back down to one car in the future. We wanted to go EV -- this is a want, but it is aligned with our values. We will continue to do long distance road trips (... once DS is vaccinated or the pandemic clears up). DW and I set the driver's seat up very differently, so we must sit in the car to assess comfort before we buy.

That leads to two options: 1) buy an used/cheap EV now, accept it won't road trip, buy a new EV later when we go back to one car 2) buy an EV capable of a road trip now.

Option 1 would be great -- Chevy Bolt is the right size for us to love, used prices are reasonable, it gives time for the EV market to develop just a little more. Visibility in it was good, not as good as the Fit, but still good. They have good base range but fast charge slowly, so road trips are a bit more of a question -- particularly the biggest road trip use case -- getting to the parents. Bolts also have that little problem that they keep igniting while charging. That's kinda concerning. We don't have a place to park away from the house/trees but close enough to charge.

The short list (of "no"s for us) is basically:

1) New/Used Leaf (for us, no: we hated the ergonomics when we sat in gen1, and I didn't think gen2 was a ton better when I rode in a friend's)
2) Used Bolt (for us, no: doesn't really hit the long distance because of the slow charge rate. Also, double-recall and battery fires)
3) Model 3 (for us, no: too low. Parents are old and the Fit is hard enough for in/out for them; lower is a no-go)
4) Model S/X (for us, no: too large. Also even more $$$)

Other EV options that might be available on the coasts just aren't here. This includes the Kona, the ID.4, most of the compliance cars (focus electric, electric mini, bmw i3), etc.

That left us with a "yes" list of:

5) New Bolt (... but almost as expensive as the two below, still slow charging, which we decided was a no compared to either of ...)
5) Model Y (... but practically zero used, and new ones at best in Q4, maybe later)
6) Mustang Mach-E (... less costly than a Y, because of the federal tax credit (for now), possible availability issues unless you happen to snag one from a dealer ...)

We ended up finding a MME (long range, awd). The person who ordered it refused delivery, leaving it in the dealer's hands. Some interesting things I have learned so far;

1) It is only barely more expensive to insure than the Fit is, despite the vast difference in blue book value. The modern car safety tech (auto emergency braking, land departure, cross traffic alert, etc) is apparently that effective.
2) You don't have to get a static shock when you exit the vehicle! I *always* (even in midwest-humid-summer) build up enough charge getting out of the Fit (and previous cars we've had) to shock myself on the metal. I don't on the MME. Haven't been through a winter yet. Leather seats for the win?
3) It is really quiet in the cabin. Not having your ears tired after a long drive is nice.
4) The low-E glass treatments mean it is less hot inside when its sitting out in the sun than the Fit, despite the glass roof.
5) Luxury segment vehicles can quickly cool the cabin if it is warm, which again is nice.

We have some issues with the idea of owning a luruxy/sports car, but also decided given the information, requirements, and market limitations we had, it was the current best move for us. At some level, if it was a mistake, it is a mistake I can live with. The car is a small fraction of our net worth. In the worst case we sell it and eat the depreciation loss, and that represents working an extra month or two (even after taxes -- I'm well paid).

Your situation may be different, so you should evaluate your own circumstances and decide if if is your best course of action, or is it just a path to regret.

bryan995

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2021, 11:06:28 PM »
Look into the Tesla depreciation curves. Our SR MY has been appreciating since buying it … 🥳

Fishindude

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2021, 07:00:06 AM »
There is no "practical" reason to buy a Tesla, it's all emotion and ego,

YoungGranny

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2021, 07:25:53 AM »
We ended up getting a Model 3 to replace our ~15 year old 2-door car after our daughter was born. We're a one car family and could have definitely bought a used Toyota/Honda and been perfectly happy. We did however want to support the EV market and as a one car family there is no other EV that currently has the charge time (because of the superchargers) and range that Teslas have. We've gone on a couple road trips already and only having to stop for 10-15 minutes to fill back up is pretty incredible. We have no regrets given our situation and the car is amazing.

Since you are looking for a second commuter car your needs are obviously different and there may be other EVs that work well for you (Leaf, Bolt, etc)

youngwildandfree

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2021, 07:57:38 AM »
We ended up getting a Model 3 to replace our ~15 year old 2-door car after our daughter was born. We're a one car family and could have definitely bought a used Toyota/Honda and been perfectly happy. We did however want to support the EV market and as a one car family there is no other EV that currently has the charge time (because of the superchargers) and range that Teslas have. We've gone on a couple road trips already and only having to stop for 10-15 minutes to fill back up is pretty incredible. We have no regrets given our situation and the car is amazing.

Since you are looking for a second commuter car your needs are obviously different and there may be other EVs that work well for you (Leaf, Bolt, etc)

Thank you for sharing. I think our needs may actually be pretty similar. The truck we have is old (80s) and really small. I would not be comfortable taking it on any kind of road trip. So we really do need to take longer trips into account with the new purchase.

youngwildandfree

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2021, 08:05:42 AM »
If you understand it isn't going to drive itself, I'm honestly curious what is it you think you get with a Telsa that's new tech that you can't find elsewhere? Tesla started delivering cars over a decade ago and were new tech then. Electric cars aren't uncommon anymore. Hybrids are everywhere. Adaptive cruise, lane keeping, and all sorts of other assists and nannies can be found in many other cars if that's your thing.

If you're traveling to other states and aren't on the east coast where they're all crammed together, you might really want to consider if full electric is right for you. Supercharger network does seem robust, but you're going to be spending time waiting on it, unlike filling a gas tank. Prius, Volt, or other hybrid would be best for mileage. Or pick a gas hatchback for hauling, minimal depreciation, and no worries about replacing a battery pack. Plenty of them used and won't break the bank, despite being more highly priced than you'd like.

If nobody cares what you drive, yourself included, then just meet your needs there and get your tech fix elsewhere. Buy the Pixel 6 or iPhone whatever when it next comes out, a cool head unit for the new ride that connects to it, a drone and camera to capture your driving, a scalped GTX 3090 to process the video, and still pocket $15-20k compared to a new Model 3, all while slaking your thirst for new tech.

Thank you for the challenge! I really would like to support the EV industry, and I want something that could comfortably do road trips of a few hundred miles. But it's possible I'm trying to fit too many goals into one purchase. I could support the industry other ways and find other outlets for the new tech itch as you mentioned. We won't be buying anything tomorrow, certainly taking time to chew on the options and test drive some alternatives.

Lots of strong opinions on this topic! I really appreciate everyone providing alternative suggestions. In the end I'm not at all worried about the price, we can afford it, but I want to make sure the quality of life impact is worth it for us. We probably won't know for certain unless we do it...

bacchi

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2021, 08:06:47 AM »
Look into the Tesla depreciation curves. Our SR MY has been appreciating since buying it … 🥳

All cars have been appreciating this year. My car is old enough to vote and it's gone up in value since last year.

Ecky

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2021, 08:14:32 AM »
By the numbers, the vehicle I would purchase if I needed one today, would be a used (2-4 year old) Hyundai Ioniq PHEV. It'll go 50 miles on electricity, then switch over to an insanely efficient gasoline engine (~60 miles per gallon). It has modern safety features, an insanely useful hatch, and Hyundai cars depreciate sharply when used, so (at least a year ago) you can pick one up for a song. I want to say I was seeing some with under 50,000 miles for close to $10,000.

Another great option would be a Prius, or a Corolla hybrid, or even a basic Corolla. Honda's Civic and Insight are also great cars with a great track record. Both Honda's and Toyota's technology has been time proven to be robust and reliable, whereas Hyundai's drivetrain has not yet.

Ford's hybrids use (if my memory serves me correctly) a lot of licensed Toyota technology, so they could be a good option too, but my experience with Ford has been a lot of smaller, stupid issues that smell of lower quality control or simply releasing less polished / finished vehicles.

youngwildandfree

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2021, 08:15:40 AM »
We hit the point we needed two cars, at least for the middle term (3-8 years). Being able to get a rental is unreliable where we are even before covid. Older parents mean we need to be able to go visit with little to no warning. Whoever is in town needs a car either for getting DS to school (if weather is bad and we can't bike) or to soccer practice/games (if weather is good). We do expect to go back down to one car in the future. We wanted to go EV -- this is a want, but it is aligned with our values. We will continue to do long distance road trips (... once DS is vaccinated or the pandemic clears up). DW and I set the driver's seat up very differently, so we must sit in the car to assess comfort before we buy.

That leads to two options: 1) buy an used/cheap EV now, accept it won't road trip, buy a new EV later when we go back to one car 2) buy an EV capable of a road trip now.

Option 1 would be great -- Chevy Bolt is the right size for us to love, used prices are reasonable, it gives time for the EV market to develop just a little more. Visibility in it was good, not as good as the Fit, but still good. They have good base range but fast charge slowly, so road trips are a bit more of a question -- particularly the biggest road trip use case -- getting to the parents. Bolts also have that little problem that they keep igniting while charging. That's kinda concerning. We don't have a place to park away from the house/trees but close enough to charge.

The short list (of "no"s for us) is basically:

1) New/Used Leaf (for us, no: we hated the ergonomics when we sat in gen1, and I didn't think gen2 was a ton better when I rode in a friend's)
2) Used Bolt (for us, no: doesn't really hit the long distance because of the slow charge rate. Also, double-recall and battery fires)
3) Model 3 (for us, no: too low. Parents are old and the Fit is hard enough for in/out for them; lower is a no-go)
4) Model S/X (for us, no: too large. Also even more $$$)

Other EV options that might be available on the coasts just aren't here. This includes the Kona, the ID.4, most of the compliance cars (focus electric, electric mini, bmw i3), etc.

That left us with a "yes" list of:

5) New Bolt (... but almost as expensive as the two below, still slow charging, which we decided was a no compared to either of ...)
5) Model Y (... but practically zero used, and new ones at best in Q4, maybe later)
6) Mustang Mach-E (... less costly than a Y, because of the federal tax credit (for now), possible availability issues unless you happen to snag one from a dealer ...)

We ended up finding a MME (long range, awd). The person who ordered it refused delivery, leaving it in the dealer's hands. Some interesting things I have learned so far;

1) It is only barely more expensive to insure than the Fit is, despite the vast difference in blue book value. The modern car safety tech (auto emergency braking, land departure, cross traffic alert, etc) is apparently that effective.
2) You don't have to get a static shock when you exit the vehicle! I *always* (even in midwest-humid-summer) build up enough charge getting out of the Fit (and previous cars we've had) to shock myself on the metal. I don't on the MME. Haven't been through a winter yet. Leather seats for the win?
3) It is really quiet in the cabin. Not having your ears tired after a long drive is nice.
4) The low-E glass treatments mean it is less hot inside when its sitting out in the sun than the Fit, despite the glass roof.
5) Luxury segment vehicles can quickly cool the cabin if it is warm, which again is nice.

We have some issues with the idea of owning a luruxy/sports car, but also decided given the information, requirements, and market limitations we had, it was the current best move for us. At some level, if it was a mistake, it is a mistake I can live with. The car is a small fraction of our net worth. In the worst case we sell it and eat the depreciation loss, and that represents working an extra month or two (even after taxes -- I'm well paid).

Your situation may be different, so you should evaluate your own circumstances and decide if if is your best course of action, or is it just a path to regret.

This information is really helpful. Thank you for taking the time to type all of this out. I do want to pay close attention to comfort for the longer commute and road tripping.

youngwildandfree

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2021, 08:19:28 AM »
By the numbers, the vehicle I would purchase if I needed one today, would be a used (2-4 year old) Hyundai Ioniq PHEV. It'll go 50 miles on electricity, then switch over to an insanely efficient gasoline engine (~60 miles per gallon). It has modern safety features, an insanely useful hatch, and Hyundai cars depreciate sharply when used, so (at least a year ago) you can pick one up for a song. I want to say I was seeing some with under 50,000 miles for close to $10,000.

Another great option would be a Prius, or a Corolla hybrid, or even a basic Corolla. Honda's Civic and Insight are also great cars with a great track record. Both Honda's and Toyota's technology has been time proven to be robust and reliable, whereas Hyundai's drivetrain has not yet.

Ford's hybrids use (if my memory serves me correctly) a lot of licensed Toyota technology, so they could be a good option too, but my experience with Ford has been a lot of smaller, stupid issues that smell of lower quality control or simply releasing less polished / finished vehicles.

We have always had Toyotas. My primary cars (including the one I am borrowing) have been Toyota Corollas from the time I was 16. I love them. But...the itch for something new...

Ecky

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2021, 08:40:31 AM »
By the numbers, the vehicle I would purchase if I needed one today, would be a used (2-4 year old) Hyundai Ioniq PHEV. It'll go 50 miles on electricity, then switch over to an insanely efficient gasoline engine (~60 miles per gallon). It has modern safety features, an insanely useful hatch, and Hyundai cars depreciate sharply when used, so (at least a year ago) you can pick one up for a song. I want to say I was seeing some with under 50,000 miles for close to $10,000.

Another great option would be a Prius, or a Corolla hybrid, or even a basic Corolla. Honda's Civic and Insight are also great cars with a great track record. Both Honda's and Toyota's technology has been time proven to be robust and reliable, whereas Hyundai's drivetrain has not yet.

Ford's hybrids use (if my memory serves me correctly) a lot of licensed Toyota technology, so they could be a good option too, but my experience with Ford has been a lot of smaller, stupid issues that smell of lower quality control or simply releasing less polished / finished vehicles.

We have always had Toyotas. My primary cars (including the one I am borrowing) have been Toyota Corollas from the time I was 16. I love them. But...the itch for something new...


That's an important thing to acknowledge.

There are far cheaper ways to get something new/different than a Tesla, but buying a Model 3 or Y isn't the worst financial decision in the world, by a long shot. A happy middle might be a Civic or Insight, which rank far more highly than Toyota's offerings in terms of driving dynamics.

I personally like older cars. I currently have, in my driveway, 3 Hondas. About 6 months ago I gave one to my brother in law as a thank you gift, and replaced it with another old Honda I got for free - a 1992 Civic hatchback. The driving dynamics are unlike anything new on the road. It has a manual steering rack which gives far more road feedback than anything in modern vehicles, and the manual transmission is shifted with mechanical linkages. There's just something to it, that can't be found new on a lot anywhere. Best of all, I averaged 65mpg on my drive up from South Carolina, and to put it on insurance was only $8 per month. If it blew up or caught on fire tomorrow, I'd be out literally nothing but the cost of plates and a year's registration.

On that note, be aware that new vehicles have other hidden costs, such as the requirement for full coverage insurance - unless you own them outright. The cost per month of insuring a Tesla in my state is literally more than 30x higher than the old Civic I recently acquired.

CNM

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2021, 08:53:13 AM »
If you're looking for both a short distance commuter car but also something can accommodate longer road trips, I'd probably go with a hybrid option.  I am not in the market for a new (to me) car yet, but when I am, I'll probably go with a hybrid. This because I live in a huge and rural state where charging stations are few and far between so I'd like the gasoline back-up for longer trips.

Paper Chaser

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2021, 08:57:51 AM »
If you're looking for both a short distance commuter car but also something can accommodate longer road trips, I'd probably go with a hybrid option.  I am not in the market for a new (to me) car yet, but when I am, I'll probably go with a hybrid. This because I live in a huge and rural state where charging stations are few and far between so I'd like the gasoline back-up for longer trips.

I was going to post this as well. A Plug In Hybrid will handle the majority of daily driving as an EV, but still has the ICE for road trips. No concerns about range. No concerns about fueling/charging infrastructure. The argument can even be made that they're better for the environment than a full BEV too.

JLee

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2021, 09:16:07 AM »
Does your state have any incentives for EVs?  I bought a Model 3 LR last year for $45k ($5k state rebate and no sales tax).

I have 8608 miles and almost 17 months of ownership on it now and Carvana would come pick it up for more than I paid for it.

If I land a 100% remote job, I will probably sell it -- but in the interim, it has been a spectacular car and I have absolutely no regrets. 

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2021, 10:29:43 AM »
My husband has a 2019 Tesla Model 3. It's not a mustachian car by any stretch of the imagination, but we both really love it. We bought it when he had a really long highway commute and wanted the "autopilot" feature. Now he has a shorter commute through the city so he doesn't use that feature much, but it still comes in handy for longer trips.

He has to drive several hours across the state about once a month, and he doesn't love having to stop to supercharge, but he still prefers to take the Tesla over my Mazda because he find it much more comfortable.

A few other things we like about the Tesla:

- They continue to update the software after you buy the car, unlike any other car company I know about. That's meant some minor increases in battery range and some useful new features such as "dog mode", where you can leave the AC on for your dog when you're out of the car and indicate that on the screen, so that other people don't worry about the dog

- The maps are fantastic - they show really high-res aerial imagery while you drive, which is fun even if not necessarily useful

-  The heat and A/C work really quickly, which is great for hot climates (and probably cold ones, but I don't live in one)

- It has both more cargo space and more interior space than a comparably sized gas car, due to the battery being much smaller than an engine

omachi

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2021, 10:33:36 AM »
We have always had Toyotas. My primary cars (including the one I am borrowing) have been Toyota Corollas from the time I was 16. I love them. But...the itch for something new...

That's an important thing to acknowledge.

There are far cheaper ways to get something new/different than a Tesla, but buying a Model 3 or Y isn't the worst financial decision in the world, by a long shot. A happy middle might be a Civic or Insight, which rank far more highly than Toyota's offerings in terms of driving dynamics.
Important to acknowledge, then ask yourself why you have that itch and why you're considering dropping five figures more than you need to in order to satisfy it, then correct your thinking. Which I think is where Ecky was going.

Also, while it's not the worst financial decision in the world, you could finance a yacht after all, the difference between a new $40k Model 3 and a used $10k Fit is more than plenty of this forum's members spend in a year. OP ought to put that want in terms of how much longer that delays reaching FI and then decide.

Thank you for the challenge! I really would like to support the EV industry, and I want something that could comfortably do road trips of a few hundred miles. But it's possible I'm trying to fit too many goals into one purchase. I could support the industry other ways and find other outlets for the new tech itch as you mentioned. We won't be buying anything tomorrow, certainly taking time to chew on the options and test drive some alternatives.

Lots of strong opinions on this topic! I really appreciate everyone providing alternative suggestions. In the end I'm not at all worried about the price, we can afford it, but I want to make sure the quality of life impact is worth it for us. We probably won't know for certain unless we do it...
I get wanting to support cleaner industry. I'm putting in solar that'll take years to break even and even then likely won't match the returns my index funds provide if I just invested the money instead. I also, for a variety of reasons, waited until after I was FI to pull the trigger on that. I'll consider a Tesla when I have to replace a car too, but I could write that check and remain FI.

In the end, it's your money to spend, your life to live, and however many extra days you'll have to work to do so. From my vantage, you want a Tesla and are leaning towards letting your scope creep until you've justified it to yourself. But I'll try anyway. Do you really want to drop a sizeable percentage of your liquid net worth on transportation? Do you care enough about cars that it won't be just another appliance, barely distinguishable from any other reliable transport in a few months? You can do it, almost certainly without tragic consequences, but is the opportunity cost worth it to you?

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2021, 11:08:40 AM »
We have always had Toyotas. My primary cars (including the one I am borrowing) have been Toyota Corollas from the time I was 16. I love them. But...the itch for something new...

That's an important thing to acknowledge.

There are far cheaper ways to get something new/different than a Tesla, but buying a Model 3 or Y isn't the worst financial decision in the world, by a long shot. A happy middle might be a Civic or Insight, which rank far more highly than Toyota's offerings in terms of driving dynamics.
Important to acknowledge, then ask yourself why you have that itch and why you're considering dropping five figures more than you need to in order to satisfy it, then correct your thinking. Which I think is where Ecky was going.

Also, while it's not the worst financial decision in the world, you could finance a yacht after all, the difference between a new $40k Model 3 and a used $10k Fit is more than plenty of this forum's members spend in a year. OP ought to put that want in terms of how much longer that delays reaching FI and then decide.

Thank you for the challenge! I really would like to support the EV industry, and I want something that could comfortably do road trips of a few hundred miles. But it's possible I'm trying to fit too many goals into one purchase. I could support the industry other ways and find other outlets for the new tech itch as you mentioned. We won't be buying anything tomorrow, certainly taking time to chew on the options and test drive some alternatives.

Lots of strong opinions on this topic! I really appreciate everyone providing alternative suggestions. In the end I'm not at all worried about the price, we can afford it, but I want to make sure the quality of life impact is worth it for us. We probably won't know for certain unless we do it...
I get wanting to support cleaner industry. I'm putting in solar that'll take years to break even and even then likely won't match the returns my index funds provide if I just invested the money instead. I also, for a variety of reasons, waited until after I was FI to pull the trigger on that. I'll consider a Tesla when I have to replace a car too, but I could write that check and remain FI.

In the end, it's your money to spend, your life to live, and however many extra days you'll have to work to do so. From my vantage, you want a Tesla and are leaning towards letting your scope creep until you've justified it to yourself. But I'll try anyway. Do you really want to drop a sizeable percentage of your liquid net worth on transportation? Do you care enough about cars that it won't be just another appliance, barely distinguishable from any other reliable transport in a few months? You can do it, almost certainly without tragic consequences, but is the opportunity cost worth it to you?

I agree with the sentiment of your post - but I will say after ~1.5 years, it still does not feel like "just another appliance."  I drove my old Bolt (sold to friends) the other day and it was a jarring adjustment.  Absolutely a workable situation, of course -- but thus far the initial "god I love this car" feeling has not subsided at all.

youngwildandfree

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #30 on: August 05, 2021, 11:31:54 AM »
We have always had Toyotas. My primary cars (including the one I am borrowing) have been Toyota Corollas from the time I was 16. I love them. But...the itch for something new...

That's an important thing to acknowledge.

There are far cheaper ways to get something new/different than a Tesla, but buying a Model 3 or Y isn't the worst financial decision in the world, by a long shot. A happy middle might be a Civic or Insight, which rank far more highly than Toyota's offerings in terms of driving dynamics.
Important to acknowledge, then ask yourself why you have that itch and why you're considering dropping five figures more than you need to in order to satisfy it, then correct your thinking. Which I think is where Ecky was going.

Also, while it's not the worst financial decision in the world, you could finance a yacht after all, the difference between a new $40k Model 3 and a used $10k Fit is more than plenty of this forum's members spend in a year. OP ought to put that want in terms of how much longer that delays reaching FI and then decide.

Thank you for the challenge! I really would like to support the EV industry, and I want something that could comfortably do road trips of a few hundred miles. But it's possible I'm trying to fit too many goals into one purchase. I could support the industry other ways and find other outlets for the new tech itch as you mentioned. We won't be buying anything tomorrow, certainly taking time to chew on the options and test drive some alternatives.

Lots of strong opinions on this topic! I really appreciate everyone providing alternative suggestions. In the end I'm not at all worried about the price, we can afford it, but I want to make sure the quality of life impact is worth it for us. We probably won't know for certain unless we do it...
I get wanting to support cleaner industry. I'm putting in solar that'll take years to break even and even then likely won't match the returns my index funds provide if I just invested the money instead. I also, for a variety of reasons, waited until after I was FI to pull the trigger on that. I'll consider a Tesla when I have to replace a car too, but I could write that check and remain FI.

In the end, it's your money to spend, your life to live, and however many extra days you'll have to work to do so. From my vantage, you want a Tesla and are leaning towards letting your scope creep until you've justified it to yourself. But I'll try anyway. Do you really want to drop a sizeable percentage of your liquid net worth on transportation? Do you care enough about cars that it won't be just another appliance, barely distinguishable from any other reliable transport in a few months? You can do it, almost certainly without tragic consequences, but is the opportunity cost worth it to you?

I genuinely appreciate the feedback. But in my head this bumps up against the definition of FI. From your perspective is FI "I have over 25X my core expenses" and therefore you can justify extra purchases that don't take from that bucket? I wouldn't need to add regular purchases of a Tesla or Leaf to my planned RE budget. It's just the opportunity cost of of the 40K or 10K I could invest in the market today correct? I will need some money for transportation, but I won't always drive 50 miles a day and I assume I will drive either car for many years.

youngwildandfree

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #31 on: August 05, 2021, 11:50:29 AM »
Does your state have any incentives for EVs?  I bought a Model 3 LR last year for $45k ($5k state rebate and no sales tax).

I have 8608 miles and almost 17 months of ownership on it now and Carvana would come pick it up for more than I paid for it.

If I land a 100% remote job, I will probably sell it -- but in the interim, it has been a spectacular car and I have absolutely no regrets.

Thanks! I wouldn't get another car right now if I could work remotely full time. But my question is starting to intersect with the "how much longer will you work/need the car?" question. We could arguably sell our house and FIRE today, but that would be a pretty lean budget to rely on for the next 60-70 years.

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #32 on: August 05, 2021, 12:19:15 PM »
For the price, it's pretty hard to beat a prius. Brand new prius on the Toyota website runs $25k for the eco one that gets up to 58 mpg. Cheapest Tesla is $40k. If it's worth it for the "cooler" car (it is a cooler car, no argument) buy it. One thing that draws me to a prius is the price, hatchback and (as much as I love electric) the ability to fuel up anywhere. If you want something where you might have long stretches, unexpected long trips to family, etc etc you can easily fuel up a prius in 10 min.

I personally think the prius looks cool. It yields unreal mileage and they have a track record for being able to last a long time. I've personally put thousands of miles on electric vehicles and cold weather can have a big affect. I've seen 40% difference in cold conditions. I owned a prius too, and it suffered during the cold weather but 35-40 mpg was still fantastic (older model prius).

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #33 on: August 05, 2021, 12:46:19 PM »
I genuinely appreciate the feedback. But in my head this bumps up against the definition of FI. From your perspective is FI "I have over 25X my core expenses" and therefore you can justify extra purchases that don't take from that bucket? I wouldn't need to add regular purchases of a Tesla or Leaf to my planned RE budget. It's just the opportunity cost of of the 40K or 10K I could invest in the market today correct? I will need some money for transportation, but I won't always drive 50 miles a day and I assume I will drive either car for many years.
I've been cash flowing a couple one off purchases while still working but FI, such as the solar panels. Solar is not a small cost, but I expect them to essentially pay for themselves during their lifespan, so replacement in 25+ years can come out of what I've saved in electric costs. Other one offs aren't as big, and I'm good about being honest with myself about what is a one off cost and what is going to be recurring. I've expanded a couple budget categories because of this. But more or less, yes, I've justified some one off costs to myself by noting they're from income and not the funds I set aside for retirement. Those funds are still growing, and my withdrawal rate, were I withdrawing, would be closer to 3.5% now. I am not going to raid that surplus for extra spending; in fact, I'm still saving. Purchases are either within budget or a rare one off taken from what I might otherwise invest. I couldn't well call myself FI otherwise.

Unless you don't plan on ever needing another vehicle again, you ought to have a budget line item for replacement. If you're willing to step up to a Tesla this time, are you willing to step down next time? Most people don't work that way. If not, you would need to add a regular purchase of a Tesla (or whatever else is the new tech want vehicle in the future) to your RE budget. It might be infrequent, but assuming you keep it 15 years, if you expect to drive for most of a 45 year retirement that's 3-4 more cars you're buying.

Just replacing a single car every 15 years with a vehicle that costs what a Model 3 costs is $40k / 15 * 25 = ~$67k that you'd need in a 4% WR FI budget. A $10k car every 10 years is $10k / 10 * 25 = $25k. Are you ready to not only spend an extra $30k now, but save an extra $42k to be FI? Double that if you have combined finances and your spouse isn't content to drive a cheaper car while you buy Teslas.

Additionally, that $30k now could be productive for you, helping you get towards your FI number. At 7% real returns, you'd have an inflation adjusted $82k after the 15 years that car may last, opposed to a well aged Tesla.

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #34 on: August 05, 2021, 12:48:24 PM »
I genuinely appreciate the feedback. But in my head this bumps up against the definition of FI. From your perspective is FI "I have over 25X my core expenses" and therefore you can justify extra purchases that don't take from that bucket? I wouldn't need to add regular purchases of a Tesla or Leaf to my planned RE budget. It's just the opportunity cost of of the 40K or 10K I could invest in the market today correct? I will need some money for transportation, but I won't always drive 50 miles a day and I assume I will drive either car for many years.
I've been cash flowing a couple one off purchases while still working but FI, such as the solar panels. Solar is not a small cost, but I expect them to essentially pay for themselves during their lifespan, so replacement in 25+ years can come out of what I've saved in electric costs. Other one offs aren't as big, and I'm good about being honest with myself about what is a one off cost and what is going to be recurring. I've expanded a couple budget categories because of this. But more or less, yes, I've justified some one off costs to myself by noting they're from income and not the funds I set aside for retirement. Those funds are still growing, and my withdrawal rate, were I withdrawing, would be closer to 3.5% now. I am not going to raid that surplus for extra spending; in fact, I'm still saving. Purchases are either within budget or a rare one off taken from what I might otherwise invest. I couldn't well call myself FI otherwise.

Unless you don't plan on ever needing another vehicle again, you ought to have a budget line item for replacement. If you're willing to step up to a Tesla this time, are you willing to step down next time? Most people don't work that way. If not, you would need to add a regular purchase of a Tesla (or whatever else is the new tech want vehicle in the future) to your RE budget. It might be infrequent, but assuming you keep it 15 years, if you expect to drive for most of a 45 year retirement that's 3-4 more cars you're buying.

Just replacing a single car every 15 years with a vehicle that costs what a Model 3 costs is $40k / 15 * 25 = ~$67k that you'd need in a 4% WR FI budget. A $10k car every 10 years is $10k / 10 * 25 = $25k. Are you ready to not only spend an extra $30k now, but save an extra $42k to be FI? Double that if you have combined finances and your spouse isn't content to drive a cheaper car while you buy Teslas.

Additionally, that $30k now could be productive for you, helping you get towards your FI number. At 7% real returns, you'd have an inflation adjusted $82k after the 15 years that car may last, opposed to a well aged Tesla.

The math is overly simplistic for the equation, as it doesn't factor in gas savings or maintenance cost differences and it also assumes a depreciation to zero.

omachi

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #35 on: August 05, 2021, 02:18:00 PM »
Do you care enough about cars that it won't be just another appliance, barely distinguishable from any other reliable transport in a few months?

I agree with the sentiment of your post - but I will say after ~1.5 years, it still does not feel like "just another appliance."  I drove my old Bolt (sold to friends) the other day and it was a jarring adjustment.  Absolutely a workable situation, of course -- but thus far the initial "god I love this car" feeling has not subsided at all.
I like cars and think Teslas (or any performance electrics) are great. My vehicle is way more than I need and after several years still makes me smile when I get on the accelerator, especially compared to my wife's car with half the power. But it's not like I have more than one on ramp to my commute. Those five and some seconds before I'm exceeding the speed limit don't materially improve my life.

In traffic or steady cruising on the highway, there's not enough difference to notice. Not having to downshift to pass is nice, but also less not more engaging. For the vast majority of my time spent driving, the car doesn't get to be more than an appliance. From a monetary standpoint, I'd have been better with something less expensive.

For a forum about finances, there are surprisingly few people here willing to say save your money rather than work longer to pay for a want. I assume if owning a Tesla were actually important to youngwildandfree, they'd just go do it without asking us anonymous strangers for our blessing.

The math is overly simplistic for the equation, as it doesn't factor in gas savings or maintenance cost differences and it also assumes a depreciation to zero.
They are a bit simple. I ignore taxes, fuel, maintenance, repairs, insurance, and registration. Some of these will be lower with a new Tesla, some higher. Some are up front, some recurring, some random. Don't know where it falls. Fuel and maintenance is obviously lower, but taxes, registration, and insurance are going to be higher on the Tesla. Driving more probably favors the Tesla.

Depreciation to zero is obviously wrong. But something like a $10k Prius or Volt has already done a lot of depreciating and at least with the Prius you can predict prices at the end of the experiment, whereas we have about four years of depreciation data on the Model 3 and about a decade on the Model S. Total cost for both and the difference will be a little lower. Quick calculation of a generous 30% value for a Tesla at 15 years, 40% value of the $10k paid for $10k car after 10 more years yields a gap of only ~$32k instead of $42k.

Regardless, I think even the simplified math illustrates the point. Whether you spend $30k now and need an extra $30k to be FI, or invest $30k now, there's a big difference in hours that need to be worked.

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #36 on: August 05, 2021, 02:28:03 PM »
Do you care enough about cars that it won't be just another appliance, barely distinguishable from any other reliable transport in a few months?

I agree with the sentiment of your post - but I will say after ~1.5 years, it still does not feel like "just another appliance."  I drove my old Bolt (sold to friends) the other day and it was a jarring adjustment.  Absolutely a workable situation, of course -- but thus far the initial "god I love this car" feeling has not subsided at all.
I like cars and think Teslas (or any performance electrics) are great. My vehicle is way more than I need and after several years still makes me smile when I get on the accelerator, especially compared to my wife's car with half the power. But it's not like I have more than one on ramp to my commute. Those five and some seconds before I'm exceeding the speed limit don't materially improve my life.

In traffic or steady cruising on the highway, there's not enough difference to notice. Not having to downshift to pass is nice, but also less not more engaging. For the vast majority of my time spent driving, the car doesn't get to be more than an appliance. From a monetary standpoint, I'd have been better with something less expensive.

For a forum about finances, there are surprisingly few people here willing to say save your money rather than work longer to pay for a want. I assume if owning a Tesla were actually important to youngwildandfree, they'd just go do it without asking us anonymous strangers for our blessing.

The math is overly simplistic for the equation, as it doesn't factor in gas savings or maintenance cost differences and it also assumes a depreciation to zero.
They are a bit simple. I ignore taxes, fuel, maintenance, repairs, insurance, and registration. Some of these will be lower with a new Tesla, some higher. Some are up front, some recurring, some random. Don't know where it falls. Fuel and maintenance is obviously lower, but taxes, registration, and insurance are going to be higher on the Tesla. Driving more probably favors the Tesla.

Depreciation to zero is obviously wrong. But something like a $10k Prius or Volt has already done a lot of depreciating and at least with the Prius you can predict prices at the end of the experiment, whereas we have about four years of depreciation data on the Model 3 and about a decade on the Model S. Total cost for both and the difference will be a little lower. Quick calculation of a generous 30% value for a Tesla at 15 years, 40% value of the $10k paid for $10k car after 10 more years yields a gap of only ~$32k instead of $42k.

Regardless, I think even the simplified math illustrates the point. Whether you spend $30k now and need an extra $30k to be FI, or invest $30k now, there's a big difference in hours that need to be worked.

A lot of that varies heavily by state -- where I am, there are zero taxes on EVs and my five year registration was something like $300. Insurance is about $848/year for my Tesla with my current carrier - previously I was paying $1340/year for a (used / ~$19k purchase price) 2017 Bolt EV.

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #37 on: August 05, 2021, 03:18:43 PM »
I cringe literally every time someone comes here and says "I'm thinking of buying a Tesla" instead of "I'm thinking of buying an electric car".

I would say that a good third of my friends now have Teslas, they are nice cars, but they're still just cars.

If spending a premium on a premium car is what will make your life better than anything else you could ever possibly spend on, including investments and more freedom from working, then go nuts, buy a premium car.

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #38 on: August 05, 2021, 03:32:09 PM »
A lot of that varies heavily by state -- where I am, there are zero taxes on EVs and my five year registration was something like $300. Insurance is about $848/year for my Tesla with my current carrier - previously I was paying $1340/year for a (used / ~$19k purchase price) 2017 Bolt EV.
Wow, that's not bad at all. In my state vehicle sales tax is 6.5% for all vehicles. Plates are a percentage of value plus a base fee, so older cars that have depreciated more cost less. It'd probably cost about 3-4x to fully insure a Model 3 than to run minimums on an old Prius based on a quick search. And they hit you with a $75 electric vehicle surcharge when first registering an EV, just because.

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #39 on: August 05, 2021, 03:56:52 PM »
I cringe literally every time someone comes here and says "I'm thinking of buying a Tesla" instead of "I'm thinking of buying an electric car".

I would say that a good third of my friends now have Teslas, they are nice cars, but they're still just cars.

If spending a premium on a premium car is what will make your life better than anything else you could ever possibly spend on, including investments and more freedom from working, then go nuts, buy a premium car.

I’ve seen you ask several people “did you come here to be talked into it or talked out of it?”, so I challenged myself with that question before I posted. But I honestly don’t know if I want one or not. I can keep the borrowed car for a little bit, so I’m thinking I should rent/borrow some EVs over the next few weeks and really think about how much the drive quality changes from car to car. Also I’ll try to decide how much I care.

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #40 on: August 05, 2021, 03:57:41 PM »
A lot of that varies heavily by state -- where I am, there are zero taxes on EVs and my five year registration was something like $300. Insurance is about $848/year for my Tesla with my current carrier - previously I was paying $1340/year for a (used / ~$19k purchase price) 2017 Bolt EV.
Wow, that's not bad at all. In my state vehicle sales tax is 6.5% for all vehicles. Plates are a percentage of value plus a base fee, so older cars that have depreciated more cost less. It'd probably cost about 3-4x to fully insure a Model 3 than to run minimums on an old Prius based on a quick search. And they hit you with a $75 electric vehicle surcharge when first registering an EV, just because.

Yeah, it varies wildly depending on state -- I'm in NJ, which is extremely EV-friendly so the math worked out for me.

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #41 on: August 05, 2021, 04:14:44 PM »
I cringe literally every time someone comes here and says "I'm thinking of buying a Tesla" instead of "I'm thinking of buying an electric car".

I would say that a good third of my friends now have Teslas, they are nice cars, but they're still just cars.

If spending a premium on a premium car is what will make your life better than anything else you could ever possibly spend on, including investments and more freedom from working, then go nuts, buy a premium car.

I’ve seen you ask several people “did you come here to be talked into it or talked out of it?”, so I challenged myself with that question before I posted. But I honestly don’t know if I want one or not. I can keep the borrowed car for a little bit, so I’m thinking I should rent/borrow some EVs over the next few weeks and really think about how much the drive quality changes from car to car. Also I’ll try to decide how much I care.

Lol, yes, I am rather predictable in my responses, but I held off on asking that exact question because I've had to say it sooooo many times recently.

The thing is, there's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting something expensive, it's just a matter of really grasping that your resources are finite.

Every cent you spend on a depreciating asset is money you can never spend on anything else. And money represents time and energy, so really, it's spending increments of your precious time and energy. And if you aren't FI yet, then it's committing future increments of time and energy.

Try to be certain that a premium car is the best place to spend your very limited resources, because once you do, that's it, that's something of equivalent value that you can NEVER have.

It better be worth it.

Tester

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #42 on: August 05, 2021, 04:40:21 PM »
I can only give you my experience when trying to buy a Chevrolet Bolt.
I wanted to buy it, and it was cheap, 27k out of the door (new).
I could not do it, although it is a hatchback (I love hatchbacks, minivans and wagons - not in this order :)).
What I did not like: the steering wheel - I could not imagine myself driving that car daily just because of the steering wheel.
I am not a snob, but I just could not...
They had a used Ford C-Max on the lot and I would have bought it but it was already sold. I sat in it and I liked it more (bigger than the Bolt, would fit 4 people and a big dog...).

I ended up buying a used VW Golf GTI for 19k out of the door (NOT a mustachian car, but at least it is a hatchback :))... I think this was a midlife crisis buy, will see in two years if I still enjoy it.
Out other car is a Honda Odyssey.
The only car I am missing is a station wagon - but the Cadillac CTS-V Wagon is both expensive and for sure NON mustachian: https://www.kbb.com/cadillac/cts/2014/cts-v-sport-wagon-4d/


Regarding Tesla - I rode in a Model 3 and I think it is more fun than the Bolt and the GTI, but I don't know if I would buy one, because I think the price is too high for me.

If I would HAVE to buy a commuter car I think I would still go with the Bolt (260 miles of range is also plenty for longer road trips, PLUS they will add the equivalent of the Tesla "self" driving on the new Bolts if I am not wrong).
Perhaps I would buy the Ford Mach E - but not the "normal" one, the GT.

What I can say: go and test drive several EVs.
Bolt, Bolt EUV, VW id4, Ford Mach E, Tesla (I understood you can have a long test drive, meaning they will leave the car with you for one day?).
Also test drive some plug in hybrids.
Then decide what works for you.

« Last Edit: August 05, 2021, 04:45:48 PM by Tester »

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #43 on: August 05, 2021, 08:36:59 PM »
This information is really helpful. Thank you for taking the time to type all of this out. I do want to pay close attention to comfort for the longer commute and road tripping.

Happy to hear it is giving you things to think on. I figure we spent long enough figuring it out, no sense keeping it to ourselves.

AccidentialMustache

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #44 on: August 05, 2021, 09:28:25 PM »
The thing is, there's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting something expensive, it's just a matter of really grasping that your resources are finite.

Every cent you spend on a depreciating asset is money you can never spend on anything else. And money represents time and energy, so really, it's spending increments of your precious time and energy. And if you aren't FI yet, then it's committing future increments of time and energy.

Spot on and said better than I would have, although I sort of danced around it.

If we decided the Mach-E is the wrong answer next year and sell it, we'll eat a <10k loss (because even if we'd have a nominally larger loss, the federal ev credit will offset that), which represents working an extra couple weeks to me. The value of being able to go north to aging parents at the drop of a hat, and be aligned with our values, is worth that to us. Everybody needs to run that mental math themselves.

gaja

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #45 on: August 06, 2021, 04:45:18 AM »
There is no "practical" reason to buy a Tesla, it's all emotion and ego,

There are a few practical reasons, although they are getting fewer year by year:
-Tesla was very early with longer range. I drive instead of fly on job travels, and can get to Brussels in 24 hours in the Tesla, compared to 2-3 days in our short range EV. There are also a few places (southeastern Iceland, northeastern Norway) where it is impossible to get in the short range cars, but possible in a longer range vehicle. There are also a few mountain passes I would avoid in wintertime unless I have a long range vehicle, since they can suddenly close for 12-24 hours. Now, there are several options for longer range EVs, but since most of the alternatives are newer models a 2013-2015 Tesla is often a relatively good buy. For everyday commutes, like the OPs, any cheap old Leaf will do just fine.
-The oldest Teslas have free supercharging for life, and several of the places I often drive there are more superchargers than other types of chargers, ensuring that I rarly have to wait in line with the Tesla compared to when I drive the Nissan. Now, Tesla is planning to open their chargers for everyone. This is very good for the overall EV world, but will reduce the argument for choosing a Tesla.

It looks like the OP is considering a new(ish) Tesla? I agree there are no practical reasons for that.

Weisass

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #46 on: August 06, 2021, 05:59:05 AM »
Quote
Fishindude on August 05, 2021, 07:00:06 AM
There is no "practical" reason to buy a Tesla, it's all emotion and ego,

I have one! We are inheriting a relative’s Tesla. I wouldn’t buy one, but I will definitely enjoy this one.

youngwildandfree

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #47 on: August 06, 2021, 06:16:22 AM »
There is no "practical" reason to buy a Tesla, it's all emotion and ego,

It looks like the OP is considering a new(ish) Tesla? I agree there are no practical reasons for that.

Had not narrowed it down to the year, but I was hoping for something gently used (<50K miles) regardless of the final make/model.

bryan995

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #48 on: August 06, 2021, 06:21:33 AM »
Look into the Tesla depreciation curves. Our SR MY has been appreciating since buying it …

All cars have been appreciating this year. My car is old enough to vote and it's gone up in value since last year.

Not to the same extent as Tesla’s. Check this out.
https://youtu.be/4JNp_dG81ZQ

The non Tesla EVs are just not there yet. Heck, you can no longer even charge your GM EV indoors … and the non Tesla charging network is a joke.

EVs provide no gas costs (negligible electric). Little to no maintenance.  EV tax credits (fed, state, electric company). Often free charging benefit at company parking garage. Access to HOV lane.  Insane demand on the used side.

https://youtu.be/4JNp_dG81ZQ

ender

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Re: So I'm thinking about getting a Tesla...
« Reply #49 on: August 06, 2021, 06:23:16 AM »
There is no "practical" reason to buy a Tesla, it's all emotion and ego,

It looks like the OP is considering a new(ish) Tesla? I agree there are no practical reasons for that.

Had not narrowed it down to the year, but I was hoping for something gently used (<50K miles) regardless of the final make/model.

Make sure you actually check prices if you do this.


 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!